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Brittney Griner

Edgy MD
Mar 09 2022 08:23 AM

You've got one of the best — one of the very best — American players in a pretty damn popular sport, held in a rival country that's currently at war and has become an international pariah, and as stories go, it's kind of barely bubbling toward the surface.



I get that, if you think of her situation as a hostage matter rather than a legal matter, a surfeit of coverage can interfere with fraught negotiations, but I'm checking now and the story isn't even appearing at all on the WNBA homepage.



https://www.aljazeera.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/2022-03-05T200755Z_163967520_RC26YO9BNPQR_RTRMADP_3_UKRAINE-CRISIS-USA-RUSSIA-BASKETBALL.jpg?resize=770%2C513>



There are so many different facets of this — political, cultural, financial, gender, sexual — that I don't know where to begin. But if it was Jacob deGrom, I imagine the front page might be different.

MFS62
Mar 09 2022 11:03 AM
Re: Brittney Griner

She has played in the Russian league during off seasons of the WNBA for several (seven?) years and has gone back and forth between the countries many times. So

- she should be fully aware of the Russian drug enforcement policies

- what could she have been thinking, that she'd get away with it?

She's smart and experienced enough. I don't think she thought that.

Could she have been framed? One oligarch's team lost and she played for the winning team and it pissed him off?

We don't know all the facts.

And we may never went on behind this.

Later

TransMonk
Mar 09 2022 12:03 PM
Re: Brittney Griner

Given Russia's history on race, gender, sexual orientation and hatred of America/the west coupled with their propensity for lying to their own people as well as the world, I take everything they claim regarding this situation with a Siberian-sized grain of salt.

ashie62
Mar 09 2022 12:12 PM
Re: Brittney Griner

Basically she is being held hostage. A vape pen with hashish residue is the "crime",



Russia has stated that they may sa. She could get 10nction individuals home and abroad. In effect a response to US sanctions on Russia



She is caught in a very dark place

kcmets
Mar 09 2022 12:34 PM
Re: Brittney Griner

National Post (03/09/2022, 14:00ish ET):

First photo of U.S. athlete arrested at Moscow airport

surfaces on Russian state media

Lefty Specialist
Mar 10 2022 08:21 AM
Re: Brittney Griner

I'm guessing she's a chip in negotiations right now. Things have been quiet for a reason.

MFS62
Mar 10 2022 09:48 AM
Re: Brittney Griner

Lefty Specialist wrote:

I'm guessing she's a chip in negotiations right now. Things have been quiet for a reason.


Hey. We have a chip, too.

IIRC, Putin's daughter is a student at Stanford. I wonder what concessions or return we could get for her.



Just sayin'.

Yes, that's evil. But sometimes you have to fight evil with evil.



Later

nymr83
Mar 10 2022 02:01 PM
Re: Brittney Griner


Lefty Specialist wrote:

I'm guessing she's a chip in negotiations right now. Things have been quiet for a reason.


Hey. We have a chip, too.

IIRC, Putin's daughter is a student at Stanford. I wonder what concessions or return we could get for her.



Just sayin'.

Yes, that's evil. But sometimes you have to fight evil with evil.



Later


The FBI should plant drugs in her dorm room and be like "yeah Putin, now whats up?" We'll take Snowden too while you're at it.

Edgy MD
Mar 10 2022 02:14 PM
Re: Brittney Griner

While it's good to see nymr back, I'm not sure which alleged daughter we're talking about here.



But no, that is absolutely not a good strategy.

Lefty Specialist
Mar 10 2022 04:47 PM
Re: Brittney Griner

Edgy MD wrote:

While it's good to see nymr back, I'm not sure which alleged daughter we're talking about here.


Ivanka? Use her as a chip for testimony under oath from Daddy.



Regarding Griner, generally the longer these things take the worse the outcome. Russia's not in much of a giving mood right now. And I'd bet Putin's daughter was on an early flight to Moscow rather than hanging around for Spring Break.

Double Switch
Mar 10 2022 05:03 PM
Re: Brittney Griner

=MFS62 post_id=86726 time=1646930914 user_id=60]
Hey. We have a chip, too.

IIRC, Putin's daughter is a student at Stanford. I wonder what concessions or return we could get for her.


Cannot find any evidence that either of Putin's daughters with his ex-wife are doing anything in the US. Both are well beyond college student age. Even Snopes isn't talking, so wherever you many have heard that, proof so far is not showing up. If you can find that, I'd be interested. My POV, a dictator undermining the US would likely not send his daughter there to be a target. ... maybe it's his girlfriend's daughter.

MFS62
Mar 11 2022 06:04 AM
Re: Brittney Griner

Double Switch wrote:

=MFS62 post_id=86726 time=1646930914 user_id=60]
Hey. We have a chip, too.

IIRC, Putin's daughter is a student at Stanford. I wonder what concessions or return we could get for her.

Cannot find any evidence that either of Putin's daughters with his ex-wife are doing anything in the US. Both are well beyond college student age. Even Snopes isn't talking, so wherever you many have heard that, proof so far is not showing up. If you can find that, I'd be interested. My POV, a dictator undermining the US would likely not send his daughter there to be a target. ... maybe it's his girlfriend's daughter.


Heard it from one of the talking heads on MSNBC. But, I have no other reference.

Later

Edgy MD
May 21 2022 07:57 PM
Re: Brittney Griner

Just a note that this superstar is still a prisoner of war.

ashie62
Dec 01 2022 07:19 PM
Re: Brittney Griner

She is still imprisoned

kcmets
Dec 02 2022 07:55 AM
Re: Brittney Griner

No new news to see here, six months later...

Edgy MD
Dec 02 2022 08:23 AM
Re: Brittney Griner

Well, new news has happened. It's just that most of it is bad.



I sometimes find myself contemplating a jailbreak, brokered in the shadows through a third party.



"We don't know who was responsible for that act of aggression on Russian soil, but we're happy to have Ms. Griner back on American soil. Out of respect for Russia's laws, she will continue to serve out her sentence under house arrest in the United States, and will be allowed to leave her house only for work, shopping, worship, concerts, banquets, exercise, street fairs, book tours, and other crucial activities."

kcmets
Dec 02 2022 12:09 PM
Re: Brittney Griner

Edgy MD wrote:

Well, new news has happened. It's just that most of it is bad.


You knew what I meant. Everyone knows what I meant.



Thread has been dormant for half a year and we get an inane update

so the thread has to be opened only to find nothing. Nada.

Edgy MD
Dec 02 2022 12:12 PM
Re: Brittney Griner

Certainly I knew what you meant. I was just transitioning to my comment. I didn't mean to be disagreeable. My apologies.

kcmets
Dec 08 2022 06:09 AM
Re: Brittney Griner

FREED! Part of a prisoner swap, details developing NOW!!!

metirish
Dec 08 2022 06:11 AM
Re: Brittney Griner

Great news , does not include Paul Whelan , which sucks

nymr83
Dec 08 2022 07:11 AM
Re: Brittney Griner

=metirish post_id=114293 time=1670505098 user_id=72]
Great news , does not include Paul Whelan , which sucks



its an absolute joke, really. We are willing to free arms dealers in exchange for celebrity drug users while allowing someone who allegedly committed espionage for us to rot

ashie62
Dec 08 2022 07:22 AM
Re: Brittney Griner

Very happy



Free Paul Whelan

TransMonk
Dec 08 2022 07:46 AM
Re: Brittney Griner

=nymr83 post_id=114299 time=1670508697 user_id=54]
=metirish post_id=114293 time=1670505098 user_id=72]
Great news , does not include Paul Whelan , which sucks



its an absolute joke, really. We are willing to free arms dealers in exchange for celebrity drug users while allowing someone who allegedly committed espionage for us to rot

Doubtful this was an either/or scenario. Not a joke at all, really. Glad she's coming home. Sooner than expected, but not soon enough.

Edgy MD
Dec 08 2022 07:55 AM
Re: Brittney Griner

Yeah, not a joke at all. This is important as hell.



I'm a drug user, though something less than a celebrity.

Bob Alpacadaca
Dec 08 2022 07:57 AM
Re: Brittney Griner

Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Dec 08 2022 01:26 PM

=nymr83 post_id=114299 time=1670508697 user_id=54]
=metirish post_id=114293 time=1670505098 user_id=72]
Great news , does not include Paul Whelan , which sucks



its an absolute joke, really. We are willing to free arms dealers in exchange for celebrity drug users while allowing someone who allegedly committed espionage for us to rot


I mostly agree with you.

A Boy Named Seo
Dec 08 2022 10:26 AM
Re: Brittney Griner

I'm glad she's home. I'd like to believe the decision-makers were at a place where they were as confident as you can be releasing a dude like him that he wouldn't cause further damage. Would've like a prisoner to be named later included in the deal, but I'm just some asshole on the internet and not a savvy prisoner trader. Welcome home, Brittney.

ashie62
Dec 08 2022 11:31 AM
Re: Brittney Griner

I feel horribly for Whelan's family



Somehow I feel like they got cheated

nymr83
Dec 08 2022 02:28 PM
Re: Brittney Griner

The United States of America got cheated. If Whelan was indeed spying for us, we have a DUTY, an OBLIGATION, to get him home. The Biden administration was more interested in a PR move

Edgy MD
Dec 08 2022 02:32 PM
Re: Brittney Griner

This seems obvious, but if a research scientist cures cerebral palsy, it doesn't logically follow he or she doesn't care about people suffering from colorectal cancer.

nymr83
Dec 08 2022 02:35 PM
Re: Brittney Griner

Not at all the same thing. Its *obvious* that you are making a very strained analogy.

Edgy MD
Dec 08 2022 02:40 PM
Re: Brittney Griner

No, I'm not.



The release of one vs. the release of another is set up as an either/or choice. There is no evidence presented at all to support that this choice existed for the United States at any time in the real world. This is a false binary and it's bad logic.



You also have twice now drawn a conclusion based on the unestablished premise of "if" Mr. Whelan is a U.S. spy.

kcmets
Dec 08 2022 04:13 PM
Re: Brittney Griner

Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Dec 08 2022 04:17 PM

The grabbing-at-straws America haters on social media are all in on

knocking getting her home. Biden blew it, Biden sucks, this would never

have gone on if ___________ was rightfully still in office...



Here's one of the dumber ones I saw today...


[list=]

  • "It's like trading 100 ounces of gold for a 1988 Yugo and then bragging about the great deal you made."
  • [/list]

    I think so many are too far gone for the delusional nonsense to ever end

    again in my lifetime. "Sad."

    Edgy MD
    Dec 08 2022 04:17 PM
    Re: Brittney Griner

    Good God.

    Ceetar
    Dec 08 2022 04:29 PM
    Re: Brittney Griner

    generally speaking, if the republican outrage machine is whining about it, it was probably a good thing.

    ashie62
    Dec 08 2022 04:35 PM
    Re: Brittney Griner

    I don't believe anyone should be doing a victory dance until both are free



    The right has lost their shit over this for not one sane reason



    Beyond that, Whelan's brother agreed that Paul was a different type of detainee than Griner when asked today



    Whelan got popped at a hotel while his entire family was awaiting his arrival at a birthday party, so yeah he may well be a more valuable asset to Putin



    There were bad decisions made by Griner and Whalen here and both need to own that

    kcmets
    Dec 08 2022 04:43 PM
    Re: Brittney Griner

    NO ONE did a victory dance.



    If that's being reported somewhere, it's being mis-reported.

    Edgy MD
    Dec 08 2022 04:57 PM
    Re: Brittney Griner


    generally speaking, if the republican outrage machine is whining about it, it was probably a good thing.


    It would be dishonest if I didn't point out that this is also bad logic. The "probably" saves it from being awful logic, but it's still beneath you.



    I think we would all do well to read up on logical reasoning. The human person is a great and amazing thing, but without reason, our place in society is corrupted to the core, and we become small, insatiable bags of bigotry.

    TransMonk
    Dec 08 2022 09:56 PM
    Re: Brittney Griner

    Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Dec 08 2022 09:59 PM

    *wait wut?

    TransMonk
    Dec 08 2022 09:58 PM
    Re: Brittney Griner

    =nymr83 post_id=114332 time=1670534907 user_id=54]
    The United States of America got cheated. If Whelan was indeed spying for us, we have a DUTY, an OBLIGATION, to get him home. The Biden administration was more interested in a PR move


    Do you really think the offer to was Griner OR Whelan?

    Edgy MD
    Dec 08 2022 10:13 PM
    Re: Brittney Griner

    Or, more broadly, does anybody?

    nymr83
    Dec 09 2022 12:06 AM
    Re: Brittney Griner

    =TransMonk post_id=114375 time=1670561931 user_id=71]
    =nymr83 post_id=114332 time=1670534907 user_id=54]
    The United States of America got cheated. If Whelan was indeed spying for us, we have a DUTY, an OBLIGATION, to get him home. The Biden administration was more interested in a PR move


    Do you really think the offer to was Griner OR Whelan?


    Why are you letting Russia determine what the offer is?

    TransMonk
    Dec 09 2022 07:14 AM
    Re: Brittney Griner

    They are Russian prisoners. How else would this work?



    I feel like you know better. But, sure, Let's Go Brandon, y,y,y,b,b,b.

    Bob Alpacadaca
    Dec 09 2022 08:30 AM
    Re: Brittney Griner


    They are Russian prisoners. How else would this work?



    I feel like you know better. But, sure, Let's Go Brandon, y,y,y,b,b,b.


    I don't know. I think someone can question the value of trading someone called the "Merchant of Death," who undoubtedly has blood on his hands, for a basketball player. I don't want to speak for the poster, but I think his point was that no one wants to see any American held as a political prisoner in a Russian gulag. But if Russia really wanted the Merchant of Death back -- and will likely put him back to work -- then we should have held out for more. I don't think anyone questioning this deal should be immediately dismissed as being in the "Let's Go Brandon" camp.

    Ceetar
    Dec 09 2022 08:41 AM
    Re: Brittney Griner

    it's not a baseball trade, it's highly sensitive geo-political relationships that even the most informed pundits have almost no insight into.



    Also there's likely way more to the Whelan "situation" than we know, and it's certainly not related to Griner in any way besides the two countries involved. Why aren't England, Ireland or Canada negotiating his release? Also espionage charges are way different than drug ones.

    Edgy MD
    Dec 09 2022 08:51 AM
    Re: Brittney Griner

    What I don't know about this exchange can fill a multi-volume set of finely bound books. But I do know that the very nature of prisoner exchanges is that you will always feel scrod. If you fancy that your side is the good side, this will be doubly true, because if you fancy that your side is the good side, then you believe your side imprisons people for just reasons, and the other side imprisons people for unjust reasons.



    You also believe that your side treats prisoners as humanely as possible and the other side rejects such a notion.



    That's the starting point. You know you're eating a crap sandwich going in, and you order a review of whatever policies put your side behind the eight ball in the first place, but behind the eight ball is where you are. I am humbly and humanely grateful for the repatriation of any unjustly imprisoned American while hating the nature of geopolitics that puts our fellow citizens in this situation. Those are just two notions you have to be able to have at the same time, because outright victory simply may not be on the table. It almost never is.



    I also have met enough State Department employees to know the touch-and-go circumstances of their work. Most days, there are no good options, but one option is better than another, one option is best, and the most wretched options are usually better than war, so you knot your tie, go to work, and spend half your day trying to get an appointment with the assistant attaché for grain futures in Belarus, which will probably waste everyone's time, but just might be the key to a diplomatic breakthrough that saves lives and averts disasters.

    Edgy MD
    Dec 09 2022 08:52 AM
    Re: Brittney Griner


    it's not a baseball trade, it's highly sensitive geo-political relationships that even the most informed pundits have almost no insight into.


    This is certainly true. And I have almost no insight into it, and neither do any of us.


    Also there's likely way more to the Whelan "situation" than we know, and it's certainly not related to Griner in any way besides the two countries involved. Why aren't England, Ireland or Canada negotiating his release? Also espionage charges are way different than drug ones.


    This is also a very important factor. The guy has citizenship in four countries, which means that Russia has four countries over a barrel.

    MFS62
    Dec 09 2022 09:52 AM
    Re: Brittney Griner

    Next time a Republican asks why we didn't get back Whelan, remind them that Whalen was taken and remained a prisoner during the Trump administration and Donald didn't get him back.

    Or, you can just tell them to go pound sand.



    Later

    metsmarathon
    Dec 09 2022 11:52 AM
    Re: Brittney Griner

    The whiners on the right are just mad that a black woman was let out of jail.

    kcmets
    Dec 09 2022 12:31 PM
    Re: Brittney Griner

    =metsmarathon post_id=114427 time=1670611934 user_id=83]
    The whiners on the right are just mad that a black woman was let out of jail.


    And that she 's going home to a prettier wife than they do.

    ashie62
    Dec 09 2022 03:55 PM
    Re: Brittney Griner

    Amen

    RealityChuck
    Dec 09 2022 06:13 PM
    Re: Brittney Griner


    Next time a Republican asks why we didn't get back Whelan, remind them that Whalen was taken and remained a prisoner during the Trump administration and Donald didn't get him back.

    Or, you can just tell them to go pound sand.



    Later


    That is point #2.



    Point #1 is that the Russians have to agree to the trade. If they say "no," there is nothing you can do.



    Ask them how they would get the Russians to change their minds.