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Buck to Medina

roger_that Jun 18 2022 10:23 AM

Just an example, not looking for a discussion of what Buck said to him, but what do YOU think went wrong with Medina last night? Folks all the time maintain that MLB pitchers can throw strikes all day long, any time they choose, but to me Medina last night is a perfect example of that thesis being simply WRONG. The one thing Medina knew not to do with a huge lead was walk people. Walking batters was counterproductive in several different ways: aside from not wanting to give the Marlins baserunners for free, he also wanted to keep his pitch count down so he could as long as he was effective, and preserve the bullpen for the next few nights. If he gives up a few solo HRs, but gets numerous long fly outs and strikeouts, ok, you can live with that, but almost every pitch he throws with that kind of lead should be in the strike zone, and those few that aren't should be borderline strikes. If you can't get six outs or nine outs while giving up a few harmless runs, then your stuff is shit. There's just no excuse for walking the universe in that situation. Far as Im concerned, Medina's instructions last night were very simple: "No walks. I don't care if you get lit up out there, but NO WALKS. Got it? Zero walks. I don't even want you to go three balls on anyone, but ABSOLUTELY NO WALKS." Giving him credit for obeying that simple rule (or for understanding it implicitly with a seven run lead), doesn't an outing like that prove that MLB pitchers do NOT have the kind of control that is often attributed to them?

kcmets Jun 18 2022 10:52 AM Re: Buck to Medina

=roger_that post_id=96509 time=1655569426 user_id=128]doesn't an outing like that prove that MLB pitchers do NOT have the kind of control that is often attributed to them?

I don't think so. Actually, I don't think it 'proves' anything at all.



Some days ya got it, some days ya don't. Or something...

Edgy MD Jun 18 2022 11:19 AM Re: Buck to Medina

=roger_that post_id=96509 time=1655569426 user_id=128]Folks all the time maintain that MLB pitchers can throw strikes all day long, any time they choose, but to me Medina last night is a perfect example of that thesis being simply WRONG.

Who are these folks? Have they met Rick Ankiel?



Sometimes Steph Curry misses free throws. Paidraig Harrington misses a 12-inch putt. Harrison Butker gakks on an extra point. Fred Flintstone throws a gutterball.



The mind-body attunement of a professional athlete is wonderful, but it ain't automatic. Most of us are mentally fighting ourselves all the time.

roger_that Jun 18 2022 12:17 PM Re: Buck to Medina

I don't think I'm trying to make the case that athletes never make mistakes. Sometimes you try to throw a pitch low and it ends up high. I'm talking about an inability to put the ball where you want it consistently. I'm talking about some relatively low-level task, such as pitching in a way that makes sense only in a specific situation, with a gigantic lead and innings to be eaten up. You want in that circumstance to avoid walks, and it doesn't matter much if you get hit hard, if you give up a nearly run every inning, a rate that won't make it on the MLB level long-term, but is suitable for this situation. Ankiel and Steve Blass pitched themselves out of MLB in pretty short order. This is a very black mark on Medina's ability--again, not that he pitched a shitty few innings, which happens to everyone once in a while, but that he had one relatively simple job, to throw strikes, and he could not do it. If he'd thrown strikes and gotten hit hard, I'd just say it was one of those hard luck nights, whaddya gonna do.

Edgy MD Jun 18 2022 12:33 PM Re: Buck to Medina

=roger_that post_id=96519 time=1655576264 user_id=128] I don't think I'm trying to make the case that athletes never make mistakes. Sometimes you try to throw a pitch low and it ends up high.

No I'm meaning to agree.



There's a reason Greg Maddux worked so ridiculously fast. Once he had his mechanics in alignment, he wanted to hang on to that, and each moment that passed was another risk that he might not be able to. Anybody can lose the strike zone.

kcmets Jun 18 2022 12:35 PM Re: Buck to Medina

=roger_that post_id=96519 time=1655576264 user_id=128]Sometimes you try to throw a pitch low and it ends up high.

Sometimes you try to throw a strike and it ends up a ball.

dinosaur jesus Jun 18 2022 12:58 PM Re: Buck to Medina

Pitchers aren't going to change their approach just because they're way ahead. They're still trying to pitch. If their game is trying to hit the corners, they're going to keep trying to hit the corners. Otherwise they might as well be throwing batting practice. They're probably also afraid that if they given in and just throw strikes, they'll screw up their approach in future games that might be closer. If pitching was just hitting a target, I think every major league pitcher would do just fine. Shaq hit 90% of his free throws in practice.

roger_that Jun 18 2022 02:49 PM Re: Buck to Medina

dinosaur jesus wrote: Pitchers aren't going to change their approach just because they're way ahead. They're still trying to pitch. Disagree. Everyone can shrink and expand the zone, depending on the situation. You've got a tie game, on the road, bases loaded, 9th, and you're telling me your pitcher is going to work the corners just because that's his game? That's completely insane.

Johnny Lunchbucket Jun 18 2022 02:54 PM Re: Buck to Medina

How'd we get from "way ahead" to "bases loaded on the road, tie game"?

roger_that Jun 18 2022 03:09 PM Re: Buck to Medina

Giving an example of adjusting your approach based on the situation, is how. Another, opposite example would be if you're determined not to put a ball in the strike zone against a particular batter (but you don't want to walk him). So you'll throw OUT of the strike zone, trying to get him to bite on a bad pitch. Point is, that's just a part of a pitcher's skill set: sometimes you need to throw strikes, sometimes you need to throw balls, and every pitcher in MLB should be able to do either on demand. Not gonna be able to execute 100%, of course, but with a 7 run lead, you're not doing your job if you're walking the ballpark. (And you are doing your job if you're getting pounded and the balls are eluding your fielders' glove.)

Johnny Lunchbucket Jun 18 2022 03:15 PM Re: Buck to Medina

I don't mean to intervene in this discussion-- I don't think I have an especially strong opinion -- but Dinos quote clearly states "way ahead" and your rebuttal moves the goalposts,basically onto a squash court.

roger_that Jun 18 2022 03:58 PM Re: Buck to Medina

He does specify, but his argument rests on the need for pitchers to maintain their approach, whatever the situation. If they can adjust to being in a spot where they need to throw strikes because they're in a tie game with the bases loaded, what would prevent them from making a similar adjustment way ahead?