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Nibbling and Blowouts--who should pitch, and how?

roger_that Jun 20 2022 08:00 AM

Last two games, we've seen pitchers coming into games that were, essentially, out of reach, the Mets bringing in Medina on Saturday to protect a seven-lead and the Marlins' dude coming in yesterday to protect a four-run lead, and both times the relief pitcher could not throw a strike to save his life, his job, or his self-respect, raising the ever-lively question WTF? I maintain that this just demonstrates an effective refutation of the truism that asserts that throwing strikes is easy for a MLB pitcher. He will get creamed by throwing pitch after pitch over the plate, but he could do it (these truism spouters say) if he wanted to, but most pitchers prefer nibbling on the black and at the top and bottom of the zone to getting creamed. But these are special circumstances, in which getting creamed (giving up a run per inning, on average) is not so bad. The shift in pitching strategy is not very significant: a pitcher with a large lead to protect simply shrinks the zone. He challenges the hitters aggressively. He throws a strike on the first pitch for sure, and stays ahead of the hitters. (Every few batters, of course, he throws his best fastball high and tight to prevent them from feeling too comfortable up there.) He will give up hits this way, certainly, but he will also get some balls right at fielders, often fielders on the warning track, and he will get some Ks. He will also learn what hitters will do if he doesn't nibble, both positively and negatively. and he will definitely keep his pitch-count down, a virtue especially in this situation when he is likely saving the other staffers for another day. So what kind of pitcher comes into this sort of game? I would argue that your wildest, fastest, often youngest pitcher should be on the mound with a very short leash, with the instructions "I want you to throw strikes here, get ahead of the batters, and walk no one. If you start walking people I will yank you, but you can stay in the game for a long time if you don't." I think most young pitchers will respond positively to such instructions because I believe that every pitcher should be able to throw strikes on demand, and those who don't, don't because their strategy is to nibble. I think you will get killed every so often with this strategy. You will give up more than a run per inning, you will blow some leads by getting clobbered by three and four-HR innings, and I will be among those howling at the moon in such circumstances. But I also think you will blow fewer leads than you will by nibbling, and walking the ballpark, in these circumstances, in which the howling will be much, much louder. I am still emitting the occasional howl from Saturday's outing. (This takes the form, by Monday morning, of the muttered "WTF?" as I prepare my coffee.) In the current pen, who fits my description of the pitcher you want to see most on the mound in a blowout: young, fast, wild, and eager for the chance to show his stuff?

MFS62 Jun 20 2022 09:02 AM Re: Nibbling and Blowouts--who should pitch, and how?

This still boils down to your assertion that a MLB pitcher can throw strikes any time he wants. It was either Jim Brosnan (The Long Season) or Jim Bouton (Ball Four) who wrote, "Good control is the ability to consistently throw a pitch that breaks eight inches into a six inch square." (The more I re-read that, I think it was Brosnan.) But control is not a consistent thing. The ball doesn't feel right. The mound hasn't been manicured. Your crotch itches. You had an argument with your wife. Tom Seaver's favorite was "My mechanics weren't right". Just because you think someone reaching the majors should have the ability to control his pitches doesn't mean he can do it. And "stuff" and control don't always bless the same pitcher, especially young ones. To answer your question, I don't think of anyone on the roster who fits your decription. Later

roger_that Jun 20 2022 09:11 AM Re: Nibbling and Blowouts--who should pitch, and how?

control is not a consistent thing. The ball doesn't feel right. The mound hasn't been manicured. Your crotch itches. You had an argument with your wife. Tom Seaver's favorite was "My mechanics weren't right". Exactly. And if a pitcher can't throw the ball where he needs to on this day, I get him out of there ASAP. Probably I have someone warming in the pen from pitch one. I need pitchers who can throws strikes in this situation, and that's my only priority. If someone cant manage that, with those specific instructions, this isn't a good day for him to be pitching for a team with a big lead.

Edgy MD Jun 20 2022 09:14 AM Re: Nibbling and Blowouts--who should pitch, and how?

=MFS62 post_id=96695 time=1655737373 user_id=60] This still boils down to your assertion that a MLB pitcher can throw strikes any time he wants.

I'm pretty sure he is asserting the opposite.

kcmets Jun 20 2022 09:20 AM Re: Nibbling and Blowouts--who should pitch, and how?

Well, that 'so many others' assert this. Either way, it's far-fetched.

Edgy MD Jun 20 2022 09:21 AM Re: Nibbling and Blowouts--who should pitch, and how?

I think Pat Mahomes should pitch in blowouts.

kcmets Jun 20 2022 09:21 AM Re: Nibbling and Blowouts--who should pitch, and how?

=roger_that post_id=96696 time=1655737891 user_id=128] Probably I have someone warming in the pen from pitch one. I need pitchers who can throws strikes in this situation

Yeah, and when his arm falls off three days later because he's thrown too

much in the bullpen you'll be starting a thread that Buck can't manage the pen.

roger_that Jun 20 2022 09:23 AM Re: Nibbling and Blowouts--who should pitch, and how?

Edgy MD wrote: =MFS62 post_id=96695 time=1655737373 user_id=60] This still boils down to your assertion that a MLB pitcher can throw strikes any time he wants. I'm pretty sure he is asserting the opposite.

I'm pretty sure you're right.



I'm not at all sure this isn't an emotional issue, rather than a factual one: is FEELS better to lose because your pitcher is getting creamed as opposed to when your pitcher is walking the universe with a big lead, but is it actually better, in terms of wins and losses, to go one path rather than another? I do not pretend to know. But I would vastly prefer to lose a big lead that way.

roger_that Jun 20 2022 09:30 AM Re: Nibbling and Blowouts--who should pitch, and how?

Probably I have someone warming in the pen from pitch one. I need pitchers who can throws strikes in this situation Yeah, and when his arm falls off three days later because he's thrown too much in the bullpen you'll be starting a thread that Buck can't manage the pen. I don't believe loosening up and throwing a few warmups in the pen will create re-attachment issues for the Special Surgery wards. If the reliever demonstrates that he can keep the ball in the general vicinity of the strike zone for the first two or three batters, I'm comfortable relaxing the tightness of the leash. I doubt, however, that instructions are as strict and as blunt as the ones I'm advocating. "Your only job here is to throw strikes." I think managers these days profess to claim their pitchers understand that need without specific instructions, but that's really the only reason I can think of that relievers are so wild with big leads, that they're not pitching any differently than they would in a tight game.