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Manfred: I Like Baseball

G-Fafif Jun 29 2022 09:29 AM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jun 29 2022 11:31 AM

Rob Manfred opens up to ESPN's Don Van Natta in an attempt to make it clear that he doesn't really altogether suck. "It is the most ridiculous thing, among some fairly ridiculous things that get said about me," he says. "The assertion that I hate the game -- that one does rub me the wrong way, I have to tell you the truth." I don't know if this profile altered my perception, but it got me through the bulk of a long waiting room session this morning. A lot on pitch clocks, a little on expansion, nothing helpful on blackouts. https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/34130915/hate-baseball-wants-save-it

Edgy MD Jun 29 2022 09:35 AM Re: Manfred: I Like Baseball

Yeah, that didn't get me into his corner, either. Feeling charitably toward the writer, if not the commissioner, I kind of wanted it to sway me, but alas.

kcmets Jun 29 2022 09:38 AM Re: Manfred: I Like Baseball

For starters, ghost runner backers don't like baseball Mannyrob.

Edgy MD Jun 29 2022 10:13 AM Re: Manfred: I Like Baseball

And baseball backers ... don't like ghost runners.

seawolf17 Jun 29 2022 10:38 AM Re: Manfred: I Like Baseball

Hey, it looks like he reads my tweets. So that's nice.

seawolf17 Jun 29 2022 10:50 AM Re: Manfred: I Like Baseball

Okay, I read the whole thing and now I hate him *more.*

Johnny Lunchbucket Jun 29 2022 10:57 AM Re: Manfred: I Like Baseball

Timely post thanks. (Quiet please-- on my way later today to interview a heavy hitter in mlb marketing for a work thing)

Ceetar Jun 29 2022 11:11 AM Re: Manfred: I Like Baseball

Rob Manfred hates baseball. That's settled fact at this point.

Johnny Lunchbucket Jun 29 2022 11:22 AM Re: Manfred: I Like Baseball

seriously this is an eye-opening article guys and as a fan of baseball and journalism--exactly the kind of article I've wanted to read for a long time. I'll share more about my personal connection to this when the time is right.

MFS62 Jun 29 2022 11:32 AM Re: Manfred: I Like Baseball

And I like music. But that doesn't mean I would be a good President of ASCAP or the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. Later

Ceetar Jun 29 2022 12:11 PM Re: Manfred: I Like Baseball

This thing is endlessly long. Does he ever answer this? I asked Manfred to name the biggest mistake he's made -- one decision he'd like to have back. He laughed. "I have to narrow it down to one?" he said. "You know, I think people who can't admit they've made mistakes, particularly in a job like this, are a little dangerous." I'm like 5 pages down and he only sort of referenced calling the World Series trophy a hunk of metal as a mistake. Nothing else. So..Uh.. It's pretty clear he hates baseball, when his counter to that is to reference a memory from 60 years ago. He doesn't use the word hate ,but this article so far is FULL of him trashing the modern game. And the writer uncritically cites the PR of things like the physical baseball not being his fault or the zombie runner supposed to be to make games shorter. I get it's not a critical piece, but like, this: Can one of baseball's most hated men usher the game into a brighter future by returning it to its glorious past? is hogwash. Baseball was better 60 years ago or that it is in trouble now is nonsense. Something that's pointed out in the article from the quotes from Selig. Manfred was furious while working for the owners in 1990 that they'd agreed to establish a minimum salary. Yeah, there's the guy that loves baseball. Oh, here's another chance to admit mistak....oh, no, he claims the investigators into the biogenesis thing were unprofessional and he didn't condone that. Pass the buck i guess. And another one on the sign stealing stuff (After some lies about not knowing about it) his only admission is that maybe he was too deliberate, and that he expected his sternly worded letter to be enough. He doubles down on that being the right move though, claiming if the GMs were good people they would've listened. oh, back to the metal thing [url]He now calls it one of his biggest mistakes. "I regret it because it's disrespectful to the game," Manfred tells me. "I also regret it because I was being defensive about something." So his biggest mistake is 'being disrespectful' (any guesses how he feels about bat flips?) and because he was being defensive about his stance on the sign stealing choices? If you have any doubt about who "won" the labor negotiation: And the owners have rewarded Manfred with a $17.5 million annual contract -- plus performance bonuses, the pay package has exceeded $25 million -- that expires after the 2024 season. god this guy is a scumbag that hates baseball. It gets worse and worse. This is an aside from Manfred, though he clearly agrees: itch-clock games are like games from the '70s and '80s ... There's a great natural rhythm; it's the way the game is supposed to be." It's so insane to me that people can say "make the game like the 70s!" and "Why don't kids like baseball?" at the same time. I know this feels like a stretch, but maybe establishing the "ideal" as what a lot of 60+ year old, mostly white men, remember fondly from their early years isn't congruent with what would make a 14 year old black girl fall in love with baseball in 2022

Johnny Lunchbucket Jun 29 2022 12:17 PM Re: Manfred: I Like Baseball

I hate to remind my friends here of this, but you are old white men, and old white men's perception of how things "ought to be" is at the heart of interfered-with progress everywhere you look right now, and it's tedious. My boy Lunchpail, who's 16, feels like he's inherting a world on fire not only from us, but *because of us* and it's true. These attitudes, even if you're like me and disagree with Manfred's tactics, are all filtered through this stubbornness "established fact" jokes, etc etc -- It's really like "the wave" the only thing that's worse than the wave is how reliable and ineffectual complaining about the wave is. Is anyone here willing to admit it's at the very least useful to learn where Manfred is coming from, or is it just easier to hate on him?

MFS62 Jun 29 2022 12:25 PM Re: Manfred: I Like Baseball

Johnny Lunchbucket wrote: Is anyone here willing to admit it's at the very least useful to learn where Manfred is coming from, or is it just easier to hate on him? (raising hand) I'm a very old white guy. Isn't it possible to do both? I think I know where he is coming from. And I still dislike him. As I have mentioned here before, I spoke with Bart Giamatti several times when he was the commissioner, and I wish he was still in that job. IMO he was worlds better than Manfred. Later

Ceetar Jun 29 2022 12:32 PM Re: Manfred: I Like Baseball

I get where it's coming from. He's not hiding it. He says it multiple times in the article "Baseball is wrong right now, we gotta make it more like it was years ago" And in doing so, he completely miffs on understanding _baseball_. Yes, I am an old white man. Manfred claims some of these changes are data-driven, but of all the tweaks and nonsense I haven't seen scores of teens suddenly watching games. I'm not aware of any real evidence that if we make the games 2:30 and ban shifts that suddenly 20 million more people are going to start watching baseball. And that article, and discourse in general, rarely talk about how the game is being presented to us. Manfred talks about how a pitch is not supposed to be a 30 second event, but maybe if those 30 seconds were filled with actual talk on the changing dynamics between the pitcher and the batter, and what's going on, it wouldn't be. Maybe the problem is those 30 seconds, especially nationally, are filled with nonsense like Joe Buck talking about a new Fox show. Manfred wants baseball to be a quick concise event that they can reliably market and roughly predict it's length. He wants to remove as many variables as possible, and make the financial projections as obvious and clear as possible, so he can sell that too.

Fman99 Jun 29 2022 12:54 PM Re: Manfred: I Like Baseball

You've got nerve calling yourself an old white man to this crowd. There's way whiter older folks than you here (well, older, anyway).

Gwreck Jun 29 2022 02:17 PM Re: Manfred: I Like Baseball

The discussion of the pitch clock and its effects was fascinating. That seems like a rule change that would actually address a real issue. Nothing in this article suggests that Manfred does not hate baseball, however. His refusal to admit a mistake was obnoxious. (The recent rule changes he pushed for have tainted and cheapened the game and don't solve the issue of game speed).

Edgy MD Jun 29 2022 02:36 PM Re: Manfred: I Like Baseball

Johnny Lunchbucket wrote: I hate to remind my friends here of this, but you are old white men, and old white men's perception of how things "ought to be" is at the heart of interfered-with progress everywhere you look right now, and it's tedious. It's not like the providers of the alleged progress here are diverse, democratic, youthful, and financially divested from the impact of their decisions. I want progress like I want cold water, but I disagree with baseball lords about how progress is measured and how it is arrived at. I'm totally willing to go to bat for progress. But beyond that, I just think ... wait just a minute ... shit ... I have to change my catheter.

bmfc1 Jun 29 2022 03:33 PM Re: Manfred: I Like Baseball

I'm 100% in favor of a pitch clock if only so James McCann can hit a grounder to short faster but that doesn't mean that Manfred likes baseball. He likes serving the interests of the owners. He doesn't care about the fans unless they can serve the interests of the owners. See you on Apple TV on Friday, ESPN soon enough and, as a popular Tweet predicts, your gas pump's screen eventually.

Johnny Lunchbucket Jul 01 2022 08:24 AM Re: Manfred: I Like Baseball

Sorry guys, I didn't wanna go off on you. I'm trying very hard to understand where baseball is going, and to that end that article was extraordinary and incredibly informative and I was dismayed a little to see some of the reaction not any more nuanced than "I was right all along" or an opportunity to make a joke, or to somehow take it as a personal insult to be so informed this way. I realize also I might have given off the wrong impression--I've re-read the article 2X and there's no doubt in my mind that it raises a very troubling disconnect going on with Manfred and the impression among so many fans that they love baseball but baseball doesn't love them, but I'm also interested in why this is. It's a little because Manfred lacks the interpersonal skill and doesn't;t project the image. But he say a lot about the commissionership here: "Every time it's me, it ain't one of those 30 guys -- that's good," Manfred says. "Look, who the hell am I? I don't have $2 billion invested in a team. I'm just a guy trying to do a job. I mean it. They deserve that layer. I believe they deserve that layer of protection. I'm the face of the game, for good or for bad." So you're all forgiven for my earlier overreaction, there's a lots of interesting remarks above my remark didn't also acknowledge. But let's go back to that quote. if you're an owner and read that, how do you take that? Manfred is lying on the tracks for you, but that secret is now out, and as the surrounding article makes clear, he's not especially good at the "face of the game" part. I guess what I'm asking is, does he get fired? Or is he ordered to fire his director of communications?

Ceetar Jul 01 2022 08:56 AM Re: Manfred: I Like Baseball

he just got a RAISE. they love him. I don't think anything in there violated their trust. We knew that part. (they don't deserve that layer, btw, and it's the media's job to shred it, but that's probably a different point) It's not like they got into the stuff about giving awards to the team that saved the most in arbitration. He didn't talk about teams tanking despite making bank. In fact, the quote you just had was right on point, infers that the owners are hugely invested. They mention the raising of the luxury tax threshold like it's a huge concession, and the minimum wage thing, and it strongly infers that the CBA was a good deal. It doesn't mention minor league pay AND lavishes him with praise for gutting the minor leagues. They love him.

Fman99 Jul 01 2022 09:20 AM Re: Manfred: I Like Baseball

How does banning the shift speed up the game? I read it. Well, some of it. The lesson I learned is that he's a twat.

Ceetar Jul 01 2022 09:28 AM Re: Manfred: I Like Baseball

=Fman99 post_id=97871 time=1656688816 user_id=86] How does banning the shift speed up the game? I read it. Well, some of it. The lesson I learned is that he's a twat.

I don't think that was the point of that one. I think the conceit there is that by banning the shift, you deincentivize 1 dimension sluggers and incentivize guys that like to ground out softly to SS but it occasionally sneaks through. i.e. contact hitters over power hitters. (Manfred has never heard of chicks dig the long ball) This is a solution to the strikeout rate, it's just a dumb poorly thought out convoluted one. There are like 17 easier ways to do that if that's _really_ what it's about.



Games WILL end in extras with the leadoff batter trickling a 40mph dribbler through a hole and the zombie runner scoring from second. That's what Manfred wants apparently.

Edgy MD Jul 05 2022 11:00 AM Re: Manfred: I Like Baseball

I'd have only recently come to fully acknowledge that the reforms I'd institute in baseball if I could — no playoffs, no divisions, no affiliation, relegation and promotion, no draft, no territorial exclusivity — would quickly and overwhelmingly lead to charges that I hate baseball.

kcmets Jul 05 2022 11:18 AM Re: Manfred: I Like Baseball

Good luck with all that, pass the bong...

batmagadanleadoff Jul 05 2022 11:51 AM Re: Manfred: I Like Baseball

Edgy MD wrote: I'd have only recently come to fully acknowledge that the reforms I'd institute in baseball if I could — no playoffs, no divisions, no affiliation, relegation and promotion, no draft, no territorial exclusivity — would quickly and overwhelmingly lead to charges that I hate baseball. Please to tell me more about your plans for no playoffs baseball. I might be an interested customer.

Benjamin Grimm Jul 05 2022 11:53 AM Re: Manfred: I Like Baseball

I assume it would be back to like it was through 1968? Two leagues, both first-place teams meet in the World Series?

batmagadanleadoff Jul 05 2022 11:58 AM Re: Manfred: I Like Baseball

Benjamin Grimm wrote: I assume it would be back to like it was through 1968? Two leagues, both first-place teams meet in the World Series? Me too. But I wanted to hear it from the guy who first advanced the idea. I was going all Bud Abbott there, setting him up to elaborate. I kinda like pre-1969, pre-divisional play. I could tolerate two divisions in each league. But MLB lost me in 1994 with the introduction of the wild card. And it's only gotten much worse since, as far as I think.

Lefty Specialist Jul 05 2022 12:21 PM Re: Manfred: I Like Baseball

Manfred: I like pleasing 30 obscenely rich guys. All else is details.

Edgy MD Jul 05 2022 01:32 PM Re: Manfred: I Like Baseball

I'm not anticipating a commissioner appointment any time soon. As far as format, two leagues and a World Series would be the aim. I'd be tempted to go further and eliminate the World Series too, crowing as champion the team with the top record in the regular season, but I'm afraid the detractors wouldn't just kill me, but come for my family and pets.