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What's up with runners dashing to first base?

roger_that Jun 21 2022 04:07 AM

During the Miami series, I noticed several of our batter/runners doing something that seemed counter-productive to me: they would hit a fair ball and, in the course of running to first base, twist their heads, sometimes more than once, to look at the fielder. In my never-series of "He's Got One Job to Do" observations, I'm thinking "Why the hell does he even have to see what the shortstop is doing with the ball? His job is to run to first base, as fast as he can, and overrun if necessary, but just to get his ass, or more precisely his foot, to the bag as expeditiously as humanly possible. How does twisting his head around help him achieve that goal?" Anything I can imagine a runner gaining from that situation would be available to him by looking at his first base coach, who is within his normal field of vision. If the ball gets by the shortstop into left field, the coach would be windmilling him around the bag with his right hand, so the runner would know to take first base on a left turn, but if the shortstop is fielding it cleanly and throwing to the 1B man, the coach would be waving his left hand , telling the runner to beat it down the line and across the bag as fast as possible. And of course screaming instructions as the runner draws nearer. I totally am not getting what the runner gains, aside from satisfying his curiosity, by turning his head to see the ball being fielded. It has to cost him a half-step at least, maybe a full step or more, to run that way (because otherwise, sprinters would routinely be twisting their heads all over the place) and we all know well that plays at first are often determined by a fraction of a fraction of a second. So is this a bad habit? Or is there something to be gained that I'm not understanding? Of course, your third option is always "Doesn't happen, Roger. You're hallucinating again. Put down the pipe," and I apologize for not documenting better when exactly this occurred during the Miami series, though I encourage you to watch for it in upcoming games. I will be looking for it in next weekend's series. (I can only watch Miami games, and TBR games if they played the Rays.)

whippoorwill Jun 21 2022 06:00 AM Re: What's up with runners dashing to first base?

I am intrigued. I can watch very few Mets games but I will be looking for this

Johnny Lunchbucket Jun 21 2022 06:54 AM Re: What's up with runners dashing to first base?

It's an issue for little leaguers and maybe, slow guys who get thrown out by a half step a lot. I wouldn't think though this "issue " is any more unique to the Mets than any other club and generally a really really tiny one that hardly matters in the big picture

Edgy MD Jun 21 2022 07:31 AM Re: What's up with runners dashing to first base?

Curiosity is (a) the most natural thing in the world, and (b) what kills cats. Coaches have been telling runners to stop watching the ball and focus on the sprint to first forever, and coaches have allowed players to continue playing despite less-than-complete compliance with this doctrine forever. Even on triples, like Marte's the other day, he was heading to first at like 70% and didn't turn it on until after he made his turn. I understand that to some extent, because there's a certain amount of reading and judgment making you're going to be responsible for beyond what your coach can offer, but running to first on a grounder is running to first on a grounder. These are habits gleaned by how we live and move through the world and make decisions. Nobody sprints into an intersection staring straight ahead trusting that the cop ahead will indicate if you have to slow down or turn. We learn to make reads of our environment as we run, even if that slows us. These habits are broken (or rather, reprogrammed) by fundamentals drills. But most of that takes place in the spring, as long, tedious drilling can't be an everyday thing amidst the daily grind of the season. So managers and coaches spend much of the season negotiating the state of their team between fundamentals erosion and fundamentals reinforcement. They have to accept some of the former, but they have to abate it with some of the latter. Different managers find different levels of tolerance for the the former and different levels of commitment to the latter. This may also be influenced by the talent level or experience level of his team.

kcmets Jun 21 2022 08:07 AM Re: What's up with runners dashing to first base?

My guess is peeking is more common than not. Will be on the look out for it in the coming weeks. My guess is also that this is not a Mets thing but rather just a thing thing. But, we'll see...

Fman99 Jun 21 2022 08:16 AM Re: What's up with runners dashing to first base?

Can't say I've noticed this but now I'm on high alert. This is right up there with "don't slide into first" to me. Weren't these guys all 8 years old and on a Little League team at some point?

roger_that Jun 21 2022 09:33 AM Re: What's up with runners dashing to first base?

My guess is peeking is more common than not. Will be on the look out for it in the coming weeks. My guess is also that this is not a Mets thing but rather just a thing thing. But, we'll see... Definitely not a Mets thing exclusively. It's just that when the other guys do it, I go "YEAH! That's right, dumbass, get yourself thrown out! Way to go!!" And I did pick up on Marte lollygagging on his triple. But I figured that would be fodder for another, separate bitch-fest.

roger_that Jun 21 2022 09:38 AM Re: What's up with runners dashing to first base?

Johnny Lunchbucket wrote: a really really tiny one that hardly matters in the big picture A wise man once intoned into my ear, a million or ten million times, that "Baseball is a game of inches." Fella name of Murph, as I recall.

kcmets Jun 21 2022 10:00 AM Re: What's up with runners dashing to first base?

My guess is peeking is more common than not. Will be on the look out for it in the coming weeks. My guess is also that this is not a Mets thing but rather just a thing thing. But, we'll see... Definitely not a Mets thing exclusively. It's just that when the other guys do it, I go "YEAH! That's right, dumbass, get yourself thrown out! Way to go!!" And I did pick up on Marte lollygagging on his triple. But I figured that would be fodder for another, separate bitch-fest. Ok

batmagadanleadoff Jun 21 2022 10:38 AM Re: What's up with runners dashing to first base?

Everybody looks at the field, or takes peeks, while they run the bases. It's natural. It's counter-intuitive to rely solely on the base coaches to run the bases. It'd be almost like running blindfolded. Besides, nobody knows better than the baserunner himself, whether or not he's likely to arrive at the desired base safely. The runner knows how he's running, how fast he can go, whether there's suddenly a pebble in his shoe that's gonna cause him to slow down by a micro of a millisecond, etc.. The runner knows all of this about himself a zillion times better than the base coach. And so the runner relies on his thorough knowledge of his capabilities to decide for himself -- but he's gotta look at the play to have all of the data he needs to process. This isn't a Mets thing. It's a people thing. Now runners not busting it out of the box from the instant contact is made on every single play --- that I will never, ever understand. That is a thing, for sure.

roger_that Jun 21 2022 11:42 AM Re: What's up with runners dashing to first base?

WTF does a pebble in his shoe have to do with peeking at the shortstop while you're supposedly hightailing it to 1B? They're pros. What "pros" means is that if we discover that literally running to 1B with a blindfold somehow gets you there a .05 second faster, then that's what you do. A stupid exaggeration? Sure, but I'll never lead this thread in "stupid shit uttered" after batman's post, so I'm good.

batmagadanleadoff Jun 21 2022 11:50 AM Re: What's up with runners dashing to first base?

WTF does a pebble in his shoe have to do with peeking at the shortstop while you're supposedly hightailing it to 1B? They're pros. What "pros" means is that if we discover that literally running to 1B with a blindfold somehow gets you there a .05 second faster, then that's what you do. A stupid exaggeration? Sure, but I'll never lead this thread in "stupid shit uttered" after batman's post, so I'm good. Yeah. Logic and more logic. Nobody said that it's more efficient to look at the play instead of at the coach. But they peek at the plays anyway. Because they're humans. They don't run flat out full speed to first base either even though that's a way bigger sin and way more inexcusable, and way more illogical. And fuck off already. That's two superfluous and personal ad hominen insults from you in two different threads, both unprovoked. And you joined this forum when? Four or five minutes ago?

batmagadanleadoff Jun 21 2022 11:56 AM Re: What's up with runners dashing to first base?

And to clarify, the pebble analogy wasn't meant to be taken literally -- not that a pebble can't get into a players cleat. And I was writing about baserunning in general, not simply running to first. The point I was stressing was that a coach can't possibly know everything that the baserunner is experiencing as he's running the bases. But yes, running to first, the player should almost always, focus on the first base coach for guidance. But not always. On slow rollers that hug the first base line, the player needs to watch the ball and the fielder as well to avoid contact, and also to tactically position himself in the right line to make the throw to first as difficult as possible, as one example.

Ceetar Jun 21 2022 12:18 PM Re: What's up with runners dashing to first base?

It's the same argument as not having pitchers through 105% every single pitch. If it's a one hop to short, you run, and peek. It's worth the information against the almost infinitesimal chance that fraction of a section is going to be the difference because he double-clutches just barely that he gets it there a split second later rather than like 3 seconds later. We're learning so much about how the regular season is about load-maintenance on your body, and running full boar to first base when it almost never makes a difference, is just asking to get yourself hurt. but especially with the shift, peeking to get an idea of where the defenders are, if it's shooting by, etc, is valuable information. Did the SS field it, or the 2Bman? Was there only one guy near second and can you take a hard turn if it gets away from the first baseman? Or hell, is there anyone at third? Maybe you can run all the way. The information is worth too much over the potential slight delay getting to first.

roger_that Jun 21 2022 12:38 PM Re: What's up with runners dashing to first base?

WTF does a pebble in his shoe have to do with peeking at the shortstop while you're supposedly hightailing it to 1B? They're pros. What "pros" means is that if we discover that literally running to 1B with a blindfold somehow gets you there a .05 second faster, then that's what you do. A stupid exaggeration? Sure, but I'll never lead this thread in "stupid shit uttered" after batman's post, so I'm good. Yeah. Logic and more logic. Nobody said that it's more efficient to look at the play instead of at the coach. But they peek at the plays anyway. Because they're humans. They don't run flat out full speed to first base either even though that's a way bigger sin and way more inexcusable, and way more illogical. And fuck off already. That's two superfluous and personal ad hominen insults from you in two different threads, both unprovoked. And you joined this forum when? Four or five minutes ago? Falling further behind the inimitable batman in the "stupid shit uttered" race! We will retire the crown in your honor, O wise one! (Dumb shit makes spelling errors in English AND Latin! A true double threat! What, do you think you're quoting Jackie Gleason or something? Hominen hominen hominen.) This is one of my favorite tropes that dumb shits everywhere have uttered since man was living in caves: "Dumb fuck who makes dumb counter-productive move is only human, so cut dumb fuck a break awready." The truly desperate argument for committing an unforgivable error--"I'm only human!!" In other words, WAH WAH WAH, ya got me, so I'm pleading guilty to being human. In batman's case, I might require more evidence than just his word. He might well be a highly advanced rhesus monkey. Too soon to tell for sure.

roger_that Jun 21 2022 12:42 PM Re: What's up with runners dashing to first base?

=Ceetar post_id=96876 time=1655835530 user_id=102] The information is worth too much over the potential slight delay getting to first.

Absolutely worthless information. Tells you nothing the coach can't convey. Runner's job is to run. Period. If you can't run hard 90 feet, you can eat a little pine and we can put someone else in today.



There's a reason we pay them coaches a salary. They're supposed to do more, and do it expertly, than just patting your tuchus and holding your batting gloves, snowflake.

batmagadanleadoff Jun 21 2022 12:56 PM Re: What's up with runners dashing to first base?

WTF does a pebble in his shoe have to do with peeking at the shortstop while you're supposedly hightailing it to 1B? They're pros. What "pros" means is that if we discover that literally running to 1B with a blindfold somehow gets you there a .05 second faster, then that's what you do. A stupid exaggeration? Sure, but I'll never lead this thread in "stupid shit uttered" after batman's post, so I'm good. Yeah. Logic and more logic. Nobody said that it's more efficient to look at the play instead of at the coach. But they peek at the plays anyway. Because they're humans. They don't run flat out full speed to first base either even though that's a way bigger sin and way more inexcusable, and way more illogical. And fuck off already. That's two superfluous and personal ad hominen insults from you in two different threads, both unprovoked. And you joined this forum when? Four or five minutes ago? Falling further behind the inimitable batman in the "stupid shit uttered" race! We will retire the crown in your honor, O wise one! (Dumb shit makes spelling errors in English AND Latin! A true double threat! What, do you think you're quoting Jackie Gleason or something? Hominen hominen hominen.) This is one of my favorite tropes that dumb shits everywhere have uttered since man was living in caves: "Dumb fuck who makes dumb counter-productive move is only human, so cut dumb fuck a break awready." The truly desperate argument for committing an unforgivable error--"I'm only human!!" In other words, WAH WAH WAH, ya got me, so I'm pleading guilty to being human. In batman's case, I might require more evidence than just his word. He might well be a highly advanced rhesus monkey. Too soon to tell for sure. Now I'm a dumb shit and a rhesus monkey. Great! And then the spelling correction - a hallmark of critical analysis - to really show of your cerebral skills. (It couldn't possibly be a typo, even though the "m" and "n" keys are right next to each other. But it seems that you know everything about everything so who am I to argue with you on that point? You know better than I do whether I misspelled or mistyped. Why else would you dedicate half of a stupid post to my alleged spelling error? Jackie Gleason? WTF?) Boy are you going out of your way to insult me. So I'm a stupid shit, not for justifying or condoning a player running the bases less efficiently, which I wasn't. I was merely trying to explain it. But you apparently don't respond well to any kind of even mild disagreement. And if you can't, you shouldn't be posting in the first place.

Ceetar Jun 21 2022 01:01 PM Re: What's up with runners dashing to first base?

=roger_that post_id=96880 time=1655836975 user_id=128] =Ceetar post_id=96876 time=1655835530 user_id=102] The information is worth too much over the potential slight delay getting to first.

Absolutely worthless information. Tells you nothing the coach can't convey. Runner's job is to run. Period. If you can't run hard 90 feet, you can eat a little pine and we can put someone else in today.



There's a reason we pay them coaches a salary. They're supposed to do more, and do it expertly, than just patting your tuchus and holding your batting gloves, snowflake.


just incorrect all around. Sorry.

batmagadanleadoff Jun 21 2022 01:01 PM Re: What's up with runners dashing to first base?

=roger_that post_id=96880 time=1655836975 user_id=128] =Ceetar post_id=96876 time=1655835530 user_id=102] The information is worth too much over the potential slight delay getting to first.

Absolutely worthless information. Tells you nothing the coach can't convey. Runner's job is to run. Period. If you can't run hard 90 feet, you can eat a little pine and we can put someone else in today.



There's a reason we pay them coaches a salary. They're supposed to do more, and do it expertly, than just patting your tuchus and holding your batting gloves, snowflake.




Great. Insult him too. Snowflake? I await the next straw man post from you that sets up an obvious baseball phenomenon so that you can then answer your own stupid question in pedantic, master of the obvious fashion, all the while pretending to come off like some Albert Fucking Einstein of baseball with dull perceptions that you and only you arrived at. Oh my! Players don't always run the bases hard! Boffo! Sometmes, the runner peeks at the play when he should only be looking at the base coach. Brilliant observation! Here's another one: a player that's tagged while not in contact with a base is out. Stupendous!

kcmets Jun 21 2022 01:34 PM Re: What's up with runners dashing to first base?

=batmagadanleadoff post_id=96863 time=1655829497 user_id=68]Now runners not busting it out of the box from the instant contact is made on every single play --- that I will never, ever understand.

Amen, and seconded.

batmagadanleadoff Jun 21 2022 01:47 PM Re: What's up with runners dashing to first base?

Now runners not busting it out of the box from the instant contact is made on every single play --- that I will never, ever understand. Amen, and seconded. That might be my biggest peeve of all time about the way baseball is played. I don't agree with the "conserving energy" or "using energy efficiently" angles, because they run the bases only a handful of times a game. I get soccer or basketball players, constantly running up and down the field/pitch/court, mananging their energy smartly, but not baseball players.

Ceetar Jun 21 2022 03:25 PM Re: What's up with runners dashing to first base?

it's a long season and doing anything 100% raises injury risk. They're humans, not robots. The ability to stay focused, dialed in, etc, is actually part of the elite ability that makes them major leaguers, and maximizing the value of that ability is often the difference between good and great. It's why sprinting to first on a walk is ridiculous. It's a 3+ hour game plus a bunch more hours of pregame workouts and BP and all that. Yes, they're in great shape and healthy and all that, but all that takes a toll on your body. Especially over 162. It's the whole concept of rest days. Sure, if your game is speed. If it's slapping the ball and trying to beat it out, you gotta bust it every time. But that's because that's your game. Getting to first in 4.2 seconds instead of 4.3 will yield you more hits. If you're trying to drive the ball and roll over it for a 2-hop bouncer to the second baseman, you could run hard your entire career and never gain any extra OBP from it. And to be clear, we're not talking about taking 8 seconds to get to first. We're talking about making it to first if the 2Bman bobbles the ball versus not. You could watch every Pete Alonso groundout and you're not gonna catch many, if any, bang bang plays where he's out by .1 seconds that if he just busted it he'd have been safe.

Johnny Lunchbucket Jun 21 2022 04:06 PM Re: What's up with runners dashing to first base?

This is another topic I'm generally not interested in debating all that much, as I said I don't believe it is an actual big deal. I do wanna +1 batmags flagging the escalation of this to some kind of fight requiring the tone and language used. There's lots-- or used to be, lots-- of other Mets groups where this kinda shit is what people participate for. By the way, I also don't wanna make anyone feel unwelcome, and appreciate anyone's willingness to participate with us --so also wouldn't condone the "five minutes ago" remark above.

roger_that Jun 26 2022 05:49 AM Re: What's up with runners dashing to first base?

Johnny Lunchbucket wrote: I do wanna +1 batmags flagging the escalation of this to some kind of fight requiring the tone and language used. There's lots-- or used to be, lots-- of other Mets groups where this kinda shit is what people participate for. By the way, I also don't wanna make anyone feel unwelcome, and appreciate anyone's willingness to participate with us --so also wouldn't condone the "five minutes ago" remark above. Appreciate this, which is why I self-suspended for a few days there, not wanting this to get too far out of control. In a normal, civil world, he (and ceetar) and I would be having some reasonable discussion over the importance of a runner looking at the groundball instead of running to first with his head pointed at the base ahead and at the coach, and we'd be pretty close to agreement, me thinking that the practice costs the Mets a "safe" call a maximum of 1% of the time, and them thinking it costs them a "safe" call maybe half of that. No big deal. Where we'd differ more, maybe, would be in instructing major leaguers in fundamentals during midseason. Again, we'd probably both agree it was counter-productive to do very much at all, but I'm a little old school in thinking there ARE still ways to do that. I'd use "flopping into first base" as my example there--someone felt this was a problem worth dealing with a few seasons ago, and it's pretty much been wiped out, I think, on the MLB level, for the same reasons I think distracted running to first base should be, but probably not during the season so much. I was trying to point out something that cropped up during the last Miami series a bit, not so much yet in the current Miami series (the only ones I get to watch) as being potentially costly. But I can't accept "human nature" as an insurmountable problem, especially when it's a habit that Little Leaguers are corrected out of all the time. As to the "five minutes ago" wisecrack, I don't pay it any mind, especially coming from someone who is as habitually rude as he is to KC, whom I believe was on this site when batman was still pooping in his pants. His own pants, that is, not KC's.

roger_that Jun 26 2022 05:55 AM Re: What's up with runners dashing to first base?

And I do think "they're only human" is the weakest of weak defenses, Laughable, really. As if anyone is claiming that ballplayers are robots or perfectible or anything of the sort. It's really the last defense of the indefensible, and it really sets me off when I encounter it in any sort of discussion.

batmagadanleadoff Jun 26 2022 09:53 AM Re: What's up with runners dashing to first base?

And I do think "they're only human" is the weakest of weak defenses, Laughable, really. As if anyone is claiming that ballplayers are robots or perfectible or anything of the sort. It's really the last defense of the indefensible, and it really sets me off when I encounter it in any sort of discussion. I'm not gonna discuss this anymore after this post. For the third time, I was merely trying to explain the dynamic, not defend it. But do read whatever the hell you want to read into my posts in order to justify your nasty responses to me. As to the "five minutes ago" wisecrack, I don't pay it any mind, especially coming from someone who is as habitually rude as he is to KC, whom I believe was on this site when batman was still pooping in his pants. His own pants, that is, not KC's. You should pay it some mind. Every regular poster here has been a member of this forum for at least 10 years, some more than 20 years. Me and KC go back about 15 years, although, yes, he was here before I was, not that KC's "so-called" seniority over me has any relevance to the issues you now raise, especially coming from you, a member here for, now, 12 minutes. Don't go by that "joined the thread" info that appears in every member's avatar. That info is wildly inaccurate for all but the newest members. But that's something else you have no idea about. We all have histories, and long memories, for better, but sometimes sadly, for worse. You have no fucking idea, and I mean that, what the deal is between me and KC. Your presumed knowledge about our complicated and often incendiary thread relationship wouldn't scratch the surface of a single molecule on the tip of its metaphorical iceberg. Those "rude posts" you refer to weren't written in a vacuum. And that's all I'll say on that topic, which we all wish, including me, would go away already so that we can all live happily ever after. Oh, the chutzpah you display. Know your place, rook. And thank you for apologizing to Lunchbucket for losing your mind and calling me a dumb shit and a rhesus monkey -- over comments I made about running to first base. Your response was at least the third time, in three separate threads, that you came after me, all unprovoked as far as I can see. Your last response was so over the top, so disproportional to my post, that it's clear that you have festering issues with me that go way beyond the discussion about baserunning, your lame pretext for the foul, and crazy, really, insults you hurled at me. Hominem. Hominem. Hominem. It's obvious that you now prefer to double down on the nastiness, rather than deescalate. Whatever. Welcome Backman.

roger_that Jun 26 2022 10:15 AM Re: What's up with runners dashing to first base?

I love these "I'm not gonna discuss this anymore beyond this thread" tantrums, because they give me unlimited chances to post about the rhesus monkey who made the threat without any concern for him responding. Of course, he usually DOES chime in again, in my experience, and is incapable of being shamed with his own lame threat not to participate further in the thread, but either way, it's fun to read. Yah, yah, I understand that KC's having years of "seniority" doesn't count because reasons, and you having seniority on me does count because of self-important reasons, but you're a clown, and a rude clown, and my place is my boot up your ass. So I plan to lay off you three days after you apologize to KC for being a pest, and to the rest of this forum for cluttering it up with all your self-involved bullshit about whatever you had against KC eleven years ago or whatever. Starting--NOW. Please remember your threat not to post in this thread ever, ever again. And please have a nice day.

MFS62 Jun 26 2022 10:23 AM Re: What's up with runners dashing to first base?

Have you noticed the Red Light Forum? Or, as I like to call it, Acrimony Avenue. It is there for disagreements like this. I've been involved in a few myself. If you feel that strongly, please feel free to start a thread there. Later

batmagadanleadoff Jun 26 2022 10:31 AM Re: What's up with runners dashing to first base? Edited 2 time(s), most recently on Jun 26 2022 10:36 AM

I love these "I'm not gonna discuss this anymore beyond this thread" tantrums, because they give me unlimited chances to post about the rhesus monkey who made the threat without any concern for him responding. Of course, he usually DOES chime in again, in my experience, and is incapable of being shamed with his own lame threat not to participate further in the thread, but either way, it's fun to read. Yah, yah, I understand that KC's having years of "seniority" doesn't count because reasons, and you having seniority on me does count because of self-important reasons, but you're a clown, and a rude clown, and my place is my boot up your ass. So I plan to lay off you three days after you apologize to KC for being a pest, and to the rest of this forum for cluttering it up with all your self-involved bullshit about whatever you had against KC eleven years ago or whatever. Starting--NOW. Please remember your threat not to post in this thread ever, ever again. And please have a nice day. Where did I say that I would never post in this thread again? Please quote the specific language. What I won't discuss anymore is the baserunning stuff because I already said what I said three times. What else can I do? If you wanna continue to mangle and distort my response because it advances your crusade against me, have at it. Just make up some straw man shit to make your insults look better. And I don't think I ever had anything against KC initially. It's the other way around. But don't let facts get in the way, especially facts that you're oblivious to. And seniority over you does matter. Because you joined up here, seemingly yesterday. Yet you presume, for example, that we haven't heard of Brian Ostrsosser and suggest that the "winner" of your self-involved correspondence campaign had to look up Ostrosser to even know that Ostrosser existed. You wouldn't have a clue as to how ridiculous you sounded. What is this all about? That I think the infield fly rule should remain as it is while you don't? my boot up your ass. Appreciate the threat. You intend to make a habit out of this?

kcmets Jun 26 2022 10:33 AM Re: What's up with runners dashing to first base?

=MFS62 post_id=97420 time=1656260588 user_id=60] Have you noticed the Red Light Forum? Or, as I like to call it, Acrimony Avenue.

Acrimony Avenue, haha. That's like the first funny thing you've said

in months. Ooop, that came out wrong -- Red Light me, baby! lolol

kcmets Jun 26 2022 10:34 AM Re: What's up with runners dashing to first base?

Oh, and leave me out of this boys. I find enough trouble on my own.

batmagadanleadoff Jun 26 2022 10:39 AM Re: What's up with runners dashing to first base?

=kcmets post_id=97425 time=1656261248 user_id=53] Oh, and leave me out of this boys....

I know whatchoo mean. The sheer audacity of this Lastings Milledge to weigh in on our beefs.

roger_that Jun 26 2022 10:44 AM Re: What's up with runners dashing to first base?

And the monkey comes out of the cage, charging and flaring his teeth, challenging me to provide evidence that I provided to my own satisfaction, and that of anyone who can read, at the beginning of my previous post. I imagine this tiny intellect is prepared to argue that "I'm not gonna discuss this anymore beyond this thread" leaves him some wiggle room because he neglected to state in legally binding language what "this" referred to, but he'll have to present that argument to someone else because I'm too busy chuckling at his childishness over here. As for my future contempt for your posts, you'll need to earn my respect from here on in. And it's a very steep hole you've dug for yourself, bunky, so I wouldn't be planning for any kumbaya parties soon. First step, of course, is your apology to KC, and the three-day waiting period that follows. Excellent spelling of "Ostrosser" btw.

batmagadanleadoff Jun 26 2022 10:49 AM Re: What's up with runners dashing to first base?

And the monkey comes out of the cage, charging and flaring his teeth, challenging me to provide evidence that I provided to my own satisfaction, and that of anyone who can read, at the beginning of my previous post. I imagine this tiny intellect is prepared to argue that "I'm not gonna discuss this anymore beyond this thread" leaves him some wiggle room because he neglected to state in legally binding language what "this" referred to, but he'll have to present that argument to someone else because I'm too busy chuckling at his childishness over here. As for my future contempt for your posts, you'll need to earn my respect from here on in. And it's a very steep hole you've dug for yourself, bunky, so I wouldn't be planning for any kumbaya parties soon. First step, of course, is your apology to KC, and the three-day waiting period that follows. Excellent spelling of "Ostrosser" btw. And the monkey comes out of his cage. Who's Ostrosser, by the way? Never heard of him. I'll bet you have. You're so much smarter than everybody else here and you remind us constantly. It's a recurring theme in so many of your posts. Insecurity complex?

Johnny Lunchbucket Jun 26 2022 10:58 AM Re: What's up with runners dashing to first base?

Appreciate this, which is why I self-suspended for a few days there, not wanting this to get too far out of control. In a normal, civil world, he (and ceetar) and I would be having some reasonable discussion over the importance of a runner looking at the groundball instead of running to first with his head pointed at the base ahead and at the coach, and we'd be pretty close to agreement, me thinking As to the "five minutes ago" wisecrack, I don't pay it any mind, especially coming from someone who is as habitually rude as he is to KC, whom I believe was on this site when batman was still pooping in his pants. His own pants, that is, not KC's. Yeah, I don't think this is all that well thought out or appropriate either

batmagadanleadoff Jun 26 2022 11:02 AM Re: What's up with runners dashing to first base?

... challenging me to provide evidence that I provided to my own satisfaction, and that of anyone who can read, at the beginning of my previous post. I imagine this tiny intellect is prepared to argue that "I'm not gonna discuss this anymore beyond this thread" leaves him some wiggle room because he neglected to state in legally binding language what "this" referred to, but he'll have to present that argument to someone else because I'm too busy chuckling at his childishness over here. It's obvious that what I wouldn't address anymore was the base running portion of this exchange. Just look at the quote that I was specifically responding to, immediately above my response. I distinguished that response from my other, separate and distinct response to your unhinged attacks against me. I guess you did it again -- distorted my post to serve your purposes.

roger_that Jun 26 2022 11:05 AM Re: What's up with runners dashing to first base?

=batmagadanleadoff post_id=97435 time=1656262951 user_id=68] your unhinged attacks against me.

You poor innocent baby.

batmagadanleadoff Jun 26 2022 11:16 AM Re: What's up with runners dashing to first base?

Johnny Lunchbucket wrote: Appreciate this, which is why I self-suspended for a few days there, not wanting this to get too far out of control. In a normal, civil world, he (and ceetar) and I would be having some reasonable discussion over the importance of a runner looking at the groundball instead of running to first with his head pointed at the base ahead and at the coach, and we'd be pretty close to agreement, me thinking As to the "five minutes ago" wisecrack, I don't pay it any mind, especially coming from someone who is as habitually rude as he is to KC, whom I believe was on this site when batman was still pooping in his pants. His own pants, that is, not KC's. Yeah, I don't think this is all that well thought out or appropriate either He's totally full of shit. His over the top insulting post from a few days ago had nothing to do with discussing base running. The base running was just a pretext to go off on me, a desire which, in hindsight, had been building inside of him like some time-bomb whose fuse finally ignited. This is patently clear from looking at the totality of his posts, rather than just this insulting and, as you note, inappropriate apology.

batmagadanleadoff Jun 26 2022 11:24 AM Re: What's up with runners dashing to first base?

Yah, yah, I understand that KC's having years of "seniority" doesn't count because reasons, and you having seniority on me does count because of self-important reasons .... That's right. Your brief time here does matter because you're inserting yourself into issues where you lack the fundamental knowledge to make the comments you make. You're uninformed and it's because you joined up here 15 minutes ago. And yet you come off like the bull in the china shop. A grossly uninformed bull, taking a position that no 15 or 20 year veteran here has ever expressed. Hey! Ever hear of Brian Ostrosser? He was a fringe Met on the 1973 pennant winning Met squad. Who are you, Jared Fucking Kushner? The unqualified novice who's gonna solve the Israeli-Palestine conflict?

roger_that Jun 27 2022 03:47 AM Re: What's up with runners dashing to first base?

You really are a stupid turd. For one thing, I never asserted, as you keep insisting I did, that G-fafif didn't recognize Brian Ostrosser's name. I simply asked (that's a VERY important word for you to learn someday: "A-S-K-E-D") whether he knew Ostrosser's name from memory or whether he looked up the 1973 roster and guessed "Ostrosser" as the infielder who was called up for two weeks. Your inability to read, and your brain-damaged instinct towards aggressive hostility (as well as the mind-numbing stupidity of your imbecilic flamewar with KC that you've kept going for years on this site--I've lurked for quite a while, btw, before posting, so you would be astonished how long I've been reading the CPF) all added up to "someone I need not treat with the slightest respect, because he has none for anyone else" and your continued insults and weak tea just confirm my contempt for you. If Ostrosser was such common knowledge to every Met fan, how come YOU didn't offer his name before G-Fafif did? Oh, yeah, because you, and the hardcore Met fans who offered incorrect guesses before G-Fafif, had no idea who he was. And you carrying on about my expressing my surprise that I didn't recognize the name of any 1973 Met as a sign of my ineptness as a long-time Mets fan is hilarious. I was surprised precisely because of how much I DO know about the 1960s and 1970s Mets, whom I actually watched, unlike a pisher like you pretending to know things you've only read a little bit about --and we all understand how poorly developed your reading comprehension skills are. Being condescended to, and scolded by, a presumptuous nobody like you, is a rare pleasure for me, genuinely funny, and funnier still for your persistence in making a loudmouthed ass of yourself throughout this thread. Keep going, jackass.

roger_that Jun 27 2022 04:05 AM Re: What's up with runners dashing to first base?

Oh, and as an aside to all CPF mods and admins, might I recommend that you discourage batman's entire "seniority" approach to newbies around here? I've got a tough shell, but it did take me quite a while to start posting here because of my sense that you all seemed to know each other, and had developed quite a closed community, and I sensed that it might be difficult for a newcomer to be accepted into that community. In other words, the CPF does present a challenging community to break into, and the batman's silly attempts to bust my chops on my lack of seniority might well be the sort of thing that inclines other potential posters to think "Uh oh, I'd better not post there--these guys are mean and aggressive to newbies." Just a thought. Most people here seem nice and knowledgable and sometimes funny, but the batman's ideas about "seniority" and whose opinions are therefore to be valued over whose seem to me a way to frighten off new posters who are a tad less self-confident than I am in their ability to stand up to would-be bullies like him. Fortunately for me, he doesn't really know who he's dealing with here, so no big deal, but I think this could be costing you some new voices on this site. Just a suggestion, take it for what it's worth.

batmagadanleadoff Jun 27 2022 05:22 AM Re: What's up with runners dashing to first base?

You really are a stupid turd. For one thing, I never asserted, as you keep insisting I did, that G-fafif didn't recognize Brian Ostrosser's name. I simply asked (that's a VERY important word for you to learn someday: "A-S-K-E-D") whether he knew Ostrosser's name from memory or whether he looked up the 1973 roster and guessed "Ostrosser" as the infielder who was called up for two weeks. Your inability to read, and your brain-damaged instinct towards aggressive hostility (as well as the mind-numbing stupidity of your imbecilic flamewar with KC that you've kept going for years on this site--I've lurked for quite a while, btw, before posting, so you would be astonished how long I've been reading the CPF) all added up to "someone I need not treat with the slightest respect, because he has none for anyone else" and your continued insults and weak tea just confirm my contempt for you. If Ostrosser was such common knowledge to every Met fan, how come YOU didn't offer his name before G-Fafif did? Oh, yeah, because you, and the hardcore Met fans who offered incorrect guesses before G-Fafif, had no idea who he was. And you carrying on about my expressing my surprise that I didn't recognize the name of any 1973 Met as a sign of my ineptness as a long-time Mets fan is hilarious. I was surprised precisely because of how much I DO know about the 1960s and 1970s Mets, whom I actually watched, unlike a pisher like you pretending to know things you've only read a little bit about --and we all understand how poorly developed your reading comprehension skills are. Being condescended to, and scolded by, a presumptuous nobody like you, is a rare pleasure for me, genuinely funny, and funnier still for your persistence in making a loudmouthed ass of yourself throughout this thread. Keep going, jackass. Lucky me. This is what I have to wake up to. I guess the early bird does catch the worm. Literally. (I'm the early bird). I'll share with you a true story that's apropos to this post of yours that I'm now responding to. It ties together several of the elements that you touch upon in your post -- me, G-FAFIF ("GF") and Brian Ostrosser. I've been to many Mets games with GF, stretching back more than 10 years, now. Those games were some of the most enjoyable Mets games I've ever experienced. I can't tell you what a pleasure it is to be at a Mets game with someone as thoroughly knowledgeable about the Mets and baseball as GF. The pattern is always the same. Awkward silence at the beginning and small talk. But eventually - immediately really, we get going and hit our stride, and then it's nonstop Mets talk all the way through. To tell you the truth, we barely pay attention to the game itself until it's late inning crunch time. Which sometimes never materializes-- the crunch time, that is. Once, we had the unlucky timing to attend a rare and dreadful Jake deGrom start where he was blown out of the waters -- thoroughly shellacked. Anyways, I can barely keep track of all of the rambling Mets related topics me and GF deep dive at a Mets game. The soullessness of recent Mets yearbooks. The inclusion of the grown-up word "hirsute" in an older Mets yearbook, presumably meant for a young reading audience. (We both thought that was a cool use of the word). Which Met looked the most out of place while wearing the uniform of some other team? We both agreed that it was Cleon Jones in the turn of the century throwback looking White Sox unis that debuted in '76. Honorable mention to Bud Harrelson in Texas Rangers duds. If they just relegated Jeff Wilpon to nothing more than being in charge of the food being served at Citi Field, he'd probably turn in a good performance there and the Mets would be better off. Etc. Etc. Etc. And this description barely, just barely, begins to scratch the surface. We could keep that up for 20 innings. 25! I haven't been to any Mets game since the covid lockdowns were put into place, but when I'm ready to return, maybe I'll ask GF if he'd be interested in catching another Mets game. Besides, I have some unfinished business to discuss with him about a dangling conversation we had at a game a few years ago involving the "ball-off-the-wall" play and in general, about that crucial September '73 series between the Mets and the Pirates. Anyways, at one of those games, in the midst of our usual rambling Mets banter -it's not so much rambling but more like free-form jazz- GF just blurted out "Rich Puig". That's it. Rich Puig. Just those two words. The comment seemingly came out of left field. I reacted with silence for a second or two, all the while absorbing his utterance while trying to determine the relevance of "Rich Puig", before I finally came to the conclusion that his comment was simply a playful non-sequitur, unattached to any commentary that preceded it. And so I then responded accordingly: "Brock Pemberton. Brian Ostrosser". Other fringe Mets from that time period. So you see, I know who Brian Ostrosser is which is the whole point of this tale. I know the names of every single Met that ever was, in fact. And the ghost Mets, too. I'm fairly certain that so does practically everybody else here, too. You are desperate to attack me. So desperate, that you launch these vicious attacks, daily now. And they're predicated on the flimsiest logic, the most threadbare and contrived arguments. All so you can then get to the punchline, which is to insult me and then pound your chest in self-congratulatory victory, while declaring how smart you are and how dumb I am -- which you do, not by showing us, but by simply proclaiming how smart you are. Vicious attacks, all founded on moronic gibberish. But I'll explain to you just how lame the merits of your so-called arguments are, rather than simply jumping to the conclusion of it all. First of all, I understand that you merely asked if GF, or anybody else here knew or heard of Ostrosser. But if you were just a tiny fraction as familiar with this forum as you now claim to be, you would've never asked anybody here that question in the first place. Especially GF. GF, and me too, for that matter, can name you every single '73 Met in short time. Including the September call-ups. And we wouldn't mistakenly include, for example, Pemberton, a '74 Met. I didn't guess Ostrosser before your riddle was solved? So what? What the hell is that supposed to mean? We're supposed to know who you're corresponding with? It was a fucking guessing game. You might as well ask me how many jellybeans you have in your jellybean jar while your at it, so you can then go off of me like some unhinged lunatic as soon as I guess incorrectly. Do you realize how pathetic you sound, especially here, gloating that you know Ostrosser while insisting incorrectly, without a shred of evidence other than wishful speculation, that others, especially me, haven't heard of Ostrosser? And then the sarcastic "If Ostrosser was such common knowledge to every Met fan, how come YOU didn't offer his name before G-Fafif did? Oh, yeah, because you, and the hardcore Met fans who offered incorrect guesses before G-Fafif, had no idea who he was. ". By your illogic logic, GF is the only one here who's ever heard of Ostrosser, because he guessed correctly first. And even then, you ended up asking GF if he himself heard of Ostrosser or whether GF had to look him up. I guess you think you're the only one who's ever heard of Ostrosser. On this board? What a self-absorbed, conceited absurdity. But do go ahead and insult the whole board now on this straw man argument of yours that nobody's ever heard of Ostrosser. So now the whole damn forum gets insulted over this Ostrosser business, a fait accompli, I suppose since only one poster can guess first correctly, and by your, again, absurd and contrived thinking, everybody else who didn't guess first never heard of Ostrosser. And you saw Mets games from the 60s? Wonderful. And from this, you take some stupid leap in logic that because you've seen the 60s Mets, I know nothing about the Mets. If you followed things here as much as you pretend, you'd also know that in real time, GF missed all but the last year of the 60s decade Mets. What does that prove? And from these flimsy, illogical statements, you then launch a coupl'a hundred word ad hominem verbal assault on yours truly, which is what you wanted to do all along in the first place. Why even bother with these flawed and supposed "on the merit" arguments of yours before you launch your insults. They make zero sense. Why bother? Just get to the point and tell me to go fuck myself. That's what this is really all about. Save yourself the time and trouble and spare us the moron talk. And nobody's pulling seniority rank on you here. But this matter between me and KC is way beyond your knowledge base. It's fitting, at least in that specific situation, to remind you to Know your place, rook. What exactly is it that you "self-suspended" yourself yours. To come back and apologize to JCL for insulting me and then, in that very same post of yours, triple down by insulting me again, and even worse than the previous insult, just before? That's some crazy trick.

roger_that Jun 27 2022 06:45 AM Re: What's up with runners dashing to first base?

More! Please. Loving this.

batmagadanleadoff Jun 27 2022 06:47 AM Re: What's up with runners dashing to first base?

=roger_that post_id=97494 time=1656333915 user_id=128] More! Please. Loving this.

And the pattern continues. You can't respond adequately to my responses because my logic is ironclad. Bulletproof. So of course, the lame insult.



I thought maybe you'd explain the relevance of you having seen 60s Mets games in real time. Or that only one person could logically be the first to correctly guess Ostrosser.

roger_that Jun 27 2022 07:00 AM Re: What's up with runners dashing to first base?

And to continue on the original topic, I didn't notice any further instances of Mets staring at grounders to the left side of the infield instead of running straight ahead to first base during this latest series with the Marlins, though I didn't get to see the final game (Thanks, Peacock!) and I won't get to see many others until they play the Marlins again. But if anyone else spots an example, feel free to post it here. Of course, as I've noted before, this isn't an exclusive fault of the Mets, and I'm happy when other teams' batters/runners make this mistake, and Buck seems like a fundamentals-first kind of manager so maybe this will get worked on in the future. I love sound fundamental baseball, and I'm always pleased when the Mets practice it and take advantage of the other teams' weak fundies.

roger_that Jun 27 2022 07:08 AM Re: What's up with runners dashing to first base?

More! Please. Loving this. And the pattern continues. You can't respond adequately to my responses because my logic is ironclad. Bulletproof. So of course, the lame insult. I thought maybe you'd explain the relevance of you having seen 60s Mets games in real time. Or that only one person could logically be the first to correctly guess Ostrosser. Dumber and Dumber--if this movie were remade, you could play both title roles yourself! This alone is hilarious: "Or that only one person could logically be the first to correctly guess Ostrosser." Well, yes. Anyone correctly guessing "Ostrosser" after the first correct guesser would, by definition, be "the second correct guesser." It is endlessly amusing to watch you tie yourself in knots proclaiming your superior reasoning and ironclad logic, but that's my limit here--watching you do damage to yourself. You don't need my help at all--"bulletproof"? Reading your posts is like watching someone commit suicide. I feel sorry for you, but it's not like you're contributing anything by posting this nonsense. I should be ashamed of myself for encouraging you to post, and shoot more bullets at your soft skull, but I'm not. You're just too funny to turn away from.

batmagadanleadoff Jun 27 2022 07:15 AM Re: What's up with runners dashing to first base?

More! Please. Loving this. And the pattern continues. You can't respond adequately to my responses because my logic is ironclad. Bulletproof. So of course, the lame insult. I thought maybe you'd explain the relevance of you having seen 60s Mets games in real time. Or that only one person could logically be the first to correctly guess Ostrosser. Dumber and Dumber--if this movie were remade, you could play both title roles yourself! This alone is hilarious: "Or that only one person could logically be the first to correctly guess Ostrosser." Well, yes. Anyone correctly guessing "Ostrosser" after the first correct guesser would, by definition, be "the second correct guesser." It is endlessly amusing to watch you tie yourself in knots proclaiming your superior reasoning and ironclad logic, but that's my limit here--watching you do damage to yourself. You don't need my help at all--"bulletproof"? Reading your posts is like watching someone commit suicide. I feel sorry for you, but it's not like you're contributing anything by posting this nonsense. I should be ashamed of myself for encouraging you to post, and shoot more bullets at your soft skull, but I'm not. You're just too funny to turn away from. You're just a liar now. Or an idiot. Probably both. You can't even understand your own posts, let alone mine. Here's what you wrote: "If Ostrosser was such common knowledge to every Met fan, how come YOU didn't offer his name before G-Fafif did? Oh, yeah, because you, and the hardcore Met fans who offered incorrect guesses before G-Fafif, had no idea who he was. " So guessing wrong can only mean that we haven't heard of Ostrosser, sez you. 100 words worth of insults founded on your misconstruing, probably intentionally, your own post. And then insulting everybody. Whaddya do here, invite us to discuss some topic you come up with so that in the end, you can insult everybody that participates? Advocates of the infield fly rule are hidebound? That one was also adressed to everybody here, not just me. Hidebound? Because it couldn't possibly be that the infield fly rule is sound? That's not a plausible conclusion? You're some piece of work.

roger_that Jun 27 2022 07:46 AM Re: What's up with runners dashing to first base?

The only sensible way to demonstrate that you felt that "Brian Ostrosser" was the correct answer, yes, would have been to have guessed "Brian Ostrosser." You're telling me, what, idiot, that the entire CPF community was secretly thinking "Oh, easy one, this is clearly the famous Brian Ostrosser that this jerk Roger That is trying to fool us on, everyone knows the answer, but we'll make all sorts of incorrect guesses for an hour or two and then we'll let G-Fafif unload the true answer on this nincompoop"? Please keep going--you are providing much amusement on an otherwise dull day.

batmagadanleadoff Jun 27 2022 07:52 AM Re: What's up with runners dashing to first base?

The only sensible way to demonstrate that you felt that "Brian Ostrosser" was the correct answer, yes, would have been to have guessed "Brian Ostrosser." No. Failing to correctly guess Brian Ostrosser does not automatically mean that the guesser in question never heard of Ostrosser. This makes no sense. Perhaps there was also some thread etiquette at play here, where nobody wanted to hog up the quiz by making multiple guesses. Boy, I've ran dozens of quizzes here in my day. I never insulted anybody here for guessing incorrectly.

roger_that Jun 27 2022 08:01 AM Re: What's up with runners dashing to first base?

=batmagadanleadoff post_id=97504 time=1656337937 user_id=68] I never insulted anybody here for guessing incorrectly.

And neither have I. I just failed to give people credit for knowing the right answer but posting the wrong one.



I just insult you because you're a provocative imbecile.

batmagadanleadoff Jun 27 2022 08:10 AM Re: What's up with runners dashing to first base? Edited 3 time(s), most recently on Jun 27 2022 08:47 AM

=roger_that post_id=97506 time=1656338507 user_id=128] =batmagadanleadoff post_id=97504 time=1656337937 user_id=68] I never insulted anybody here for guessing incorrectly.

And neither have I. I just failed to give people credit for knowing the right answer but posting the wrong one.



I just insult you because you're a provocative imbecile.


But not you. And since we're now in the RL forum, fuck you, jackass!

roger_that Jun 27 2022 08:11 AM Re: What's up with runners dashing to first base?

More!

batmagadanleadoff Jun 27 2022 08:20 AM Re: What's up with runners dashing to first base?

=roger_that post_id=97510 time=1656339067 user_id=128]More!

Okay, Jackass.



And what is this supposed to mean?

And neither have I [insulted anyone]. I just failed to give people credit for knowing the right answer but posting the wrong one.

This has nothing to do with giving a wrong guesser proper credit as if he guessed right. Stop twisting the words around. Stop moving the goalposts. It's about your loony and insulting assumption that those who guessed wrong had never heard of Ostrosser. Was Ostrosser the only logical guess? The only fringe infielder on a first place Mets team from either '69 or '73? The only Met that checked all your stupid boxes? So someone that guessed, for example, Bobby Heise or Lute Barnes can't possibly have heard of Ostrosser? What are you, on drugs or something?



I'll give you this much: Your sentences are structurally sound. From a technical standpoint. But your actual ideas and insights are moronic. Dressing them up in grammatically correct posts doesn't hide your weak thinking. Neither does surrounding them in wall to wall insults. A pig in a silk hat is still a pig. At least win the underlying argument on the merits before you high-five yourself.

roger_that Jun 27 2022 09:13 AM Re: What's up with runners dashing to first base?

More! Okay, Jackass. And what is this supposed to mean? And neither have I [insulted anyone]. I just failed to give people credit for knowing the right answer but posting the wrong one. This has nothing to do with giving a wrong guesser proper credit as if he guessed right. Stop twisting the words around. Stop moving the goalposts. It's about your loony and insulting assumption that those who guessed wrong had never heard of Ostrosser. Was Ostrosser the only logical guess? The only fringe infielder on a first place Mets team from either '69 or '73? The only Met that checked all your stupid boxes? So someone that guessed, for example, Bobby Heise or Lute Barnes can't possibly have heard of Ostrosser? What are you, on drugs or something? I'll give you this much: Your sentences are structurally sound. From a technical standpoint. But your actual ideas and insights are moronic. Dressing them up in grammatically correct posts doesn't hide your weak thinking. Neither does surrounding them in wall to wall insults. A pig in a silk hat is still a pig. At least win the underlying argument on the merits before you high-five yourself. I'm so grateful to have a semi-literate monkey like you giving me his stamp of approval--you have no idea what your approval means to me. If you only knew the books and articles I've published, many on the Mets and many more on baseball in general, you would cry out to heaven "I am not worthy to comment on Roger That's prose! Forgive me, O Almighty, for my presumption!" But since you're ignorant of my publication record, and the places my work has been published in, though you've probably read it if you keep up with baseball writing at all, and I'm not going to tell you, I'll just thank you for recognizing a competently crafted sentence when one bites you on your ass. Again, imbecile, I didn't state that the folks who guessed "Heise" or "Barnes" couldn't possibly be saving "Ostrosser" for a later guess, just that guessing "Heise" or "Barnes" is not evidence that they HAD heard of Ostrosser. You might want to take a few basic courses in elementary logic to figure out how you've gotten yourself bollixed up so badly here. But I'm not conducting such classes at this time, so good luck in finding one.

Edgy MD Jun 27 2022 09:21 AM Re: What's up with runners dashing to first base?

Stop-time, guys.

Edgy MD Jun 27 2022 09:23 AM Re: What's up with runners dashing to first base?

I mean, go on at will if you must, as this thread has been red-lit, but I would lovingly recommend you consider it a good time to stop.

batmagadanleadoff Jun 27 2022 09:24 AM Re: What's up with runners dashing to first base?

Again, imbecile, I didn't state that the folks who guessed "Heise" or "Barnes" couldn't possibly be saving "Ostrosser" for a later guess, just that guessing "Heise" or "Barnes" is not evidence that they HAD heard of Ostrosser. It's not evidence that they didn't hear of Ostrosser either. And besides, you've already written that everybody that guessed wrong hadn't heard of Ostrosser. But continue to bullshit, and once again, move the goalposts, shift the facts. In fact, there's not a shred of evidence anywhere in this entire thread that somebody here, anybody, had never heard of Ostrosser. But you continue to make this assumption nevertheless, on the basis of hot air and a prayer. And this ridiculous notion that everybody who guessed incorrectly had never heard of Ostrosser. Including those who guessed either Heise or Barnes. You said "everybody". You might want to take a few basic courses in elementary logic to figure out how you've gotten yourself bollixed up so badly here. But I'm not conducting such classes at this time, so good luck in finding one. Whatever. Good for you on your published works. No sarcasm here. Truly sincerely. Though I never heard of a self-described renowned author acting so fucking stupid and illogical, with every succeeding post getting dumber and dumber. I'm not the one that needs a logic course. I guess that having published works means that you're right about everything and that this nonsense you're posting in this thread isn't really nonsense. All because you've been published. Some baseball expert. Doesn't even know that there aren't any force plays when the infield fly rule is called. And then 600 words to explain that a baserunner tagged while not in contact with a base is out. Because we're all baseball rubes over here. What other outcome were you advocating for? A fucking grace period? Some nutjob rule that a runner isn't really out unless he hadn't been in contact with the base for, I dunno, say three seconds before he's finally tagged? You're not really claiming to have won this argument because you've had written works published, are you? Disgusting. This is really an odd context, an odd way by which to announce that you've been published. To buttress your stupid arguments? What are you gonna do in your next post? Take out your cock?

roger_that Jun 27 2022 10:21 AM Re: What's up with runners dashing to first base?

Wait and see. You'll no doubt be very impressed, whatever I choose to whip out.

batmagadanleadoff Jun 27 2022 02:32 PM Re: What's up with runners dashing to first base?

Cut the crap already and stop cluttering your posts with four paragaphs worth of non-stop insults and bullshitting lies. Less obfuscating. Just explain this quote of yours: "If Ostrosser was such common knowledge to every Met fan, how come YOU didn't offer his name before G-Fafif did? Oh, yeah, because you, and the hardcore Met fans who offered incorrect guesses before G-Fafif, had no idea who he was. " Because it's impossible for some poster to have known all along, who Brian Ostrosser is, yet still given you an incorrect guess to your quiz. Right? Isn't that the horseshit you're peddling on everybody?

nymr83 Jun 27 2022 04:32 PM Re: What's up with runners dashing to first base?

Now runners not busting it out of the box from the instant contact is made on every single play --- that I will never, ever understand. Amen, and seconded. That might be my biggest peeve of all time about the way baseball is played. I don't agree with the "conserving energy" or "using energy efficiently" angles, because they run the bases only a handful of times a game. I get soccer or basketball players, constantly running up and down the field/pitch/court, mananging their energy smartly, but not baseball players. really only the soccer player has an excuse. the basketball team can freely substitute.

roger_that Jun 28 2022 01:34 AM Re: What's up with runners dashing to first base?

Cut the crap already and stop cluttering your posts with four paragaphs worth of non-stop insults and bullshitting lies. Less obfuscating. Just explain this quote of yours: "If Ostrosser was such common knowledge to every Met fan, how come YOU didn't offer his name before G-Fafif did? Oh, yeah, because you, and the hardcore Met fans who offered incorrect guesses before G-Fafif, had no idea who he was. " Because it's impossible for some poster to have known all along, who Brian Ostrosser is, yet still given you an incorrect guess to your quiz. Right? Isn't that the horseshit you're peddling on everybody? Man, you must really have a very low opinion of your fellow forumites. What, you think they all knew "Yeah, of course, you've got old Brian Ostrosser, the Canadian marvel, slick-fielding shortstop who filled in for Buddy Harrelson way back in August of 1973, everybody knows that, but just for fun, I'm going to drag out this fun contest by guessing outfielders like Dave Schneck and Jim Beauchamp or pitchers like Joe Grzenda or catchers like Duffy Dyer, even though we've been told it's an infielder because I like having fun with this Roger That fellow and feeding him incorrect guesses for several pages"? And of course you personally knew instantly that good old Brian O. was the correct answer, but you had to ask me to provide some clarity in my hints rather than guessing (NO! You weren't "guessing"--you knew the answer all along! What am I saying?) "Brian Ostrosser" because you were enjoying interacting with me all along, isn't that right? Oh, face it already--you got all hot and bothered because some fresh newbie seemed to "Stump the Forum" for a few minutes until Greg came along and tossed off the right answer, and the rest of the forum said, "Huh? Who dat, Oztrumzit? 5 PA, 0 hits before I was born? Jeez, that Fafif dude sure knows some weird shit" and now you're having this meltdown for several additional pages because I got under your skin. Chill out, batman, and accept it that maybe you're not the steaming-hot shit you think you are. Maybe you're just the room-temperature turd I have you pegged for. You may be onto something, though, in your speculation that me being on drugs is responsible for this whole brouhaha. I remember very clearly the summer of 1973, and I think "drugs," of which I was imbibing freely that summer, mainly pot, may have impaired my mind a bit such that I lost track of a few days when Ostrosser sat on the Mets bench hoping to get into a game ahead of Harrelson's backup, the even more famous Teddy Martinez, another giant figure in Mets lore. So it was surprising to me that I didn't recognize Ostrosser's name immediately, and I then made the crippling error of assuming (and still believing) that other long-time, hard-core Mets fans also would not, did not, and could not pick him out of a police lineup if their other choices were all quadruple amputees.

batmagadanleadoff Jun 28 2022 04:37 AM Re: What's up with runners dashing to first base?

Cut the crap already and stop cluttering your posts with four paragaphs worth of non-stop insults and bullshitting lies. Less obfuscating. Just explain this quote of yours: "If Ostrosser was such common knowledge to every Met fan, how come YOU didn't offer his name before G-Fafif did? Oh, yeah, because you, and the hardcore Met fans who offered incorrect guesses before G-Fafif, had no idea who he was. " Because it's impossible for some poster to have known all along, who Brian Ostrosser is, yet still given you an incorrect guess to your quiz. Right? Isn't that the horseshit you're peddling on everybody? Man, you must really have a very low opinion of your fellow forumites. What, you think they all knew "Yeah, of course, you've got old Brian Ostrosser, the Canadian marvel, slick-fielding shortstop who filled in for Buddy Harrelson way back in August of 1973, everybody knows that, but just for fun, I'm going to drag out this fun contest by guessing outfielders like Dave Schneck and Jim Beauchamp or pitchers like Joe Grzenda or catchers like Duffy Dyer, even though we've been told it's an infielder because I like having fun with this Roger That fellow and feeding him incorrect guesses for several pages"? And of course you personally knew instantly that good old Brian O. was the correct answer, but you had to ask me to provide some clarity in my hints rather than guessing (NO! You weren't "guessing"--you knew the answer all along! What am I saying?) "Brian Ostrosser" because you were enjoying interacting with me all along, isn't that right? Oh, face it already--you got all hot and bothered because some fresh newbie seemed to "Stump the Forum" for a few minutes until Greg came along and tossed off the right answer, and the rest of the forum said, "Huh? Who dat, Oztrumzit? 5 PA, 0 hits before I was born? Jeez, that Fafif dude sure knows some weird shit" and now you're having this meltdown for several additional pages because I got under your skin. Chill out, batman, and accept it that maybe you're not the steaming-hot shit you think you are. Maybe you're just the room-temperature turd I have you pegged for. You may be onto something, though, in your speculation that me being on drugs is responsible for this whole brouhaha. I remember very clearly the summer of 1973, and I think "drugs," of which I was imbibing freely that summer, mainly pot, may have impaired my mind a bit such that I lost track of a few days when Ostrosser sat on the Mets bench hoping to get into a game ahead of Harrelson's backup, the even more famous Teddy Martinez, another giant figure in Mets lore. So it was surprising to me that I didn't recognize Ostrosser's name immediately, and I then made the crippling error of assuming (and still believing) that other long-time, hard-core Mets fans also would not, did not, and could not pick him out of a police lineup if their other choices were all quadruple amputees. You're a smug unhinged idiot and an egomaniac. The moral of just about every single post you write on this forum is that you're smarter than all of the subjects you write about and every member of this forum. And you're the one that's been carrying on with this nonsense for a forest's worth of cyber-paper, insulting me because I guessed wrong, needlessly extending this conversation by shifting the facts and moving the goalposts with every new post you write. I'm merely responding to your personal insults and your absurd thinking. And now you're supposed to impress us by name dropping Ted Martinez? Wow. Who's Martinez? You didn't explain that the Met we were looking for was an infielder until about 10 posts in, so the poster who incorrectly guessed Schneck, for example, and many other incorrect guessers had no idea we were looking for an infielder. But that wouldn't stop you from insulting them either. You also assume that posters will pick up your clues. They don't always do. They'll sometimes submit guesses as soon as they're done reading the opening post of the thread because reading the whole thread costs them time, and thus the chance to win the contest. Time is of the essence. And on the subject of not having ever heard of Ostrosser, you're the only one who, I can say with 100% certainty, never heard of Ostrosser until very recently. Here's the proof: You yourself admitted this. He played for a Met team I watched very closely, and which sticks in my memory very clearly, but the reason I contacted him this morning was that I did not recognize his name at all. Not even vaguely. http://phpbb3.ultimatemets.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=31414 But you're so full of yourself, that you can't accept that if you didn't know who Ostrosser was, nobody else could've either. Me, I posted a custom baseball card of Ostrosser that I made years ago, jackass. You even asked me for a copy. Is that Dairylee card for real? I'd like to send him a copy if Dairylee really issued those in 1974. And it's spelled Dairylea, Mr. Hominen Hominen Hominen. You think I could've made that card without knowing about Ostrosser? It's terrific that you're a published author. It's a real talent to be able to write copy that some publisher would deem worthy of publication. And we could all use good baseball reads around here, especially Mets themed reading material. I mean this. Congratulations, again. Unfortunately, you exhibit none of the disciplines one would expect from a published author. You're biased, a liar, and an obfuscator of facts, carrying on with this moronic idea that anybody that guessed wrong in your quiz couldn't have possibly heard of Ostrosser, let alone have seen him play. And you let your massive ego get in the way of everything you write here. Me, I guessed Bobby Heise, a fringe infielder for the '69 squad. How that guess proves that I never heard of Ostrosser mystifies me. But I've lost hope for a rational explanation from you. Because your stupid ego won't let you explain yourself with logic and civility, or to apologize for a gratuitous insult, unsupported by any facts. So just continue to insult me for four paragraphs and squeeze in there, how fucking smart you are because you know Joe Grzenda and, presumably, we don't. It's what you do.

whippoorwill Jun 28 2022 05:18 AM Re: What's up with runners dashing to first base?

Just as an annoying aside, I've heard of every one of those guys, but forgot about most of them

batmagadanleadoff Jun 28 2022 06:17 AM Re: What's up with runners dashing to first base?

=whippoorwill post_id=97566 time=1656415126 user_id=79] Just as an annoying aside, I've heard of every one of those guys, but forgot about most of them

It's not annoying at all. It's the whole point. We've all heard of all these Mets. And if we were old enough, we've seen 'em all, too. The audacity of this guy to insult the whole forum by insisting that nobody's heard of Ostrosser, except maybe Greg. And I say maybe because even with Greg, he mainly believes that Greg had to look up Ostrosser's name in order to solve his guessing game. Guessing game!



And then, I dont know anything, ANYTHING, about baseball because I missed the 60s. It's about as logical as saying that Keith Hernandez doesnt know anything about baseball because he wasn't old enough to have seen Joe DiMaggio play baseball. Or that Roger Angell didn't know anything about baseball because he wasn't old enough to have seen Wee Willie Keeler play baseball.

roger_that Jun 28 2022 07:54 AM Re: What's up with runners dashing to first base?

Me, I guessed Bobby Heise, a fringe infielder for the '69 squad. How that guess proves that I never heard of Ostrosser mystifies me. For the eighteenth time, guessing "Heise" does not prove you never heard of Ostrosser. It simply doesn't prove you had heard of him. Only guessing "Ostrosser" would have proven that, and you failed to guess "Ostrosser." Otherwise, please carry on. And as to your trying to shit all over my thread on "1969" I'd like to say here, but not there, that I don't intend to pay you any further attention in the baseball forums for the foreseeable future, but I will continue to address you in this thread, because I can freely call you names and otherwise irritate you without annoying other people.

roger_that Jun 28 2022 08:10 AM Re: What's up with runners dashing to first base?

Oh, and as to your point about me feeling that I'm "smarter than all of the subjects you write about and every member of this forum," that's completely untrue. This forum is packed with all sorts of smart and talented and clever people whom I'm sure I can learn much from. You just don't happen to be one of them. Are you sure you're not projecting your own sense of insecurity and inferiority and worthlessness as a human being onto me? Well, I guess if you were sure of that, you wouldn't be you, so it's a stupid question to be asking.

batmagadanleadoff Jun 28 2022 08:17 AM Re: What's up with runners dashing to first base?

For the eighteenth time, guessing "Heise" does not prove you never heard of Ostrosser. But that's what you said, you fucking liar. And you said that about everybody, not just me. YOu fucking liar.

batmagadanleadoff Jun 28 2022 08:19 AM Re: What's up with runners dashing to first base?

And as to your trying to shit all over my thread on "1969" I'd like to say here, but not there ... It's not your thread. You merely wrote the first post. I don't need your permission to post in that thread. Not does anybody else. But if that's how you feel, you should start your own blog.

roger_that Jun 28 2022 08:26 AM Re: What's up with runners dashing to first base?

Of course you're free to shit all over all my threads--just like you do to KC's. I just won't give you a bit of satisfaction by responding to you in the baseball forum. If you enjoy being ignored, keep having at me there, shitbird. I'll be getting back to you over here/

batmagadanleadoff Jun 28 2022 08:44 AM Re: What's up with runners dashing to first base?

Oh, and as to your point about me feeling that I'm "smarter than all of the subjects you write about and every member of this forum," that's completely untrue. This forum is packed with all sorts of smart and talented and clever people whom I'm sure I can learn much from. You just don't happen to be one of them. Sure. Especially because you say so.

batmagadanleadoff Jun 28 2022 08:57 AM Re: What's up with runners dashing to first base?

I don't intend to pay you any further attention in the baseball forums for the foreseeable future Fine by me. You've decided to dislike me intensely, apparently on matters that really aren't any of your business, and on which you know nothing, or next to nothing, about.* In short time, and through no instigation of my own, you've reduced our exchanges to vicious person assaults on me. Maybe it's that I disagreed with you about the infield fly rule and in the process and without any intent to do so, unearthed the fact that you didn't have a solid understanding of how the rule even works and so now you have to exact some obsessive and sociopathic revenge on me. Who knows? ___________ *Lurk the archives all you want, but many of those posts don't exist anymore. And if you're trying to stir up shit between me and other posters, I wish you wouldn't because I'd like to put all of that in the past just as much as everybody else and move on. This particular feud is really unfortunate and began when some other poster barely knew me as well as he must know be by now. Would you comment and pass harsh judgments on some couple's troubled marriage if you'd met them just a few weeks and only in the most superficial setting? This isn't any different just because it's taking place on the internet.

roger_that Jun 28 2022 09:22 AM Re: What's up with runners dashing to first base?

Would you comment and pass harsh judgments on some couple's troubled marriage if you'd met them just a few weeks and only in the most superficial setting? This isn't any different just because it's taking place on the internet. No, but I will start shit with you any time I choose because you're a rude asshole whom it is my pleasure to rile up. You could apologize for your condescending remarks about seniority and referring to me as "rook," but we both know you're not going to do that, so enjoy the flame war, numbnuts. I know I will.

batmagadanleadoff Jun 28 2022 09:27 AM Re: What's up with runners dashing to first base?

=roger_that post_id=97606 time=1656429733 user_id=128] I will start shit with you any time I choose because you're a rude asshole

Well then I guess same here. If I'm a rude asshole, your ruder and assholier.

batmagadanleadoff Jun 28 2022 09:34 AM Re: What's up with runners dashing to first base?

You could apologize for your condescending remarks about seniority and referring to me as "rook," but we both know you're not going to do that .... You lack of self awareness is staggering, as is your sense of entitlement. I called you a rook after you hurled vicious, insulting and unprovoked posts at me that were about as hostile as anything I've ever read on this forum. But those post of yours don't count, I suppose.

roger_that Jun 30 2022 01:08 PM Re: What's up with runners dashing to first base?

That weren't nothin', pal. I was just getting warmed up. It's funny how all I'm asking for is for you to post that your "rook" remark and all your bullshit about seniority is out of line, and we can start fresh, but since that's not anything you'll even consider doing, although it would be both correct and proper for you to do so, what you get instead is my contempt, and I can keep that up for quite a while. But that's what you want, so that's what you'll get. Meantime, I'm having fun. See the Ostrosser quiz thread for my latest post. It will come as a bit of a surprise to you.

nymr83 Jul 01 2022 07:43 AM Re: What's up with runners dashing to first base?

I had thoughts on running to first you know. why did we let roger derail his own entire thread? where is the surgical split by our full time unpaid moderators? don't make me go all red light on you!

roger_that Jul 01 2022 12:38 PM Re: What's up with runners dashing to first base?

I think you're permitted, nymr83, to comment on baseball here. Or to re-open a thread on the topic in the baseball topic. Not sure I derailed it myself--I think I had a little help from the charmless batman over here, but no matter.

batmagadanleadoff Jul 01 2022 02:53 PM Re: What's up with runners dashing to first base?

=roger_that post_id=97893 time=1656700706 user_id=128] I think you're permitted, nymr83, to comment on baseball here. Or to re-open a thread on the topic in the baseball topic. Not sure I derailed it myself--I think I had a little help from the charmless batman over here, but no matter.

Sure jackass. Because the half dozen or so insulting posts you wrote to me and the over the top unhinged rants that you also wrote to me, unprovoked, and before I ever responded in kind dont count.



This is priceless. Now the narcissist is teaching Nomar how the Red Light Forum works.

nymr83 Jul 01 2022 07:25 PM Re: What's up with runners dashing to first base?

LOLOLOL - Batmags and I have "shared" more words in the Red Light forum than Roger has posted in total.

batmagadanleadoff Jul 02 2022 01:45 PM Re: What's up with runners dashing to first base?

LOLOLOL - Batmags and I have "shared" more words in the Red Light forum than Roger has posted in total. I was definitely aware of that as I was writing that post. lol

stevejrogers Jul 19 2022 06:58 PM Re: What's up with runners dashing to first base?

I don't know why I have to let this out. But the Ostrosser “debate” is reminding me of a “only true fans will remember this name,” kind of a joke though, post I saw a couple of years ago in a Facebook group for my favorite NBA team. It was the name of a very disappointing foreign born talent brought in as a controversial first round draft pick in 1999. He wound up never playing for the team, instead opting to play in Europe, where he would spend a decade before retiring. My reply in the comments was “HEY! I've been trying to FORGET that name!”

kcmets Jul 20 2022 06:09 AM Re: What's up with runners dashing to first base?

Frédéric Weis, oops sorry to remind you. Who was that Heisman Trophy winner the Jets drafted that sucked? I'm not going to google it, see if it comes to me later this morning.

kcmets Jul 20 2022 09:05 AM Re: What's up with runners dashing to first base?

I think I was thinking of Blair Thomas, but he never won a Heisman. (nothing more to see here)

The Hot Corner Jul 23 2022 04:48 PM Re: What's up with runners dashing to first base?

I don't recall the Jets having drafted a Heisman winner. I believe the last Heisman winner to suit up for the Jets was Tim "I was great in college" Tebow.

Johnny Lunchbucket Jul 25 2022 10:10 PM Re: What's up with runners dashing to first base?

Props to Rogers though. That's a good line. What I think I would done had it been my line is only, go back and find whatever snippet of this discussion best appropriate to "quote" as a set up, then just re-use the line. I'll grant your way is obviously more authentic, and came with a nice correction to the thread's evolution. My way i think makes the "joke" work harder, cuz it doesn't pack it with too much other "stuff." Either way, it earns my Zeile of Approval. And we'll be back after this, where we'll "break down" all you need to know about the "Memories of Colin Holderman" thread. Is that the fact that there's but three responses to this, indicate this reliable concept series is struggling? Stay tuned on SNY Sportnight, presented by Geico, after this from Kars for Kids...