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Is Jeff McNeil's Doghouse Reopening and Does It Deserve Its Own Thread?

Johnny Lunchbucket Jul 24 2022 08:48 AM

https://nypost.com/2022/07/24/buck-showalter-lets-jeff-mcneil-rest-with-mets-game-on-line/ So, I'm "splitting" from the Game thread. and there I said "I didn't even realize McNeil was an option because I wasn't paying full attention to the whole game (unsaid was that I'd just assumed not to listen for it because with the game on the line and your worst hitter up and he's hurt, McNeil must not be an option because he's not batting here.) To which Ceeter replied: [BLOCKQUOTE]McNeil has been Schrödinger's hurt for months. but you cant' let Nido bat there. Gary was opening questioning if he was even healthy enough to swing the bat (which he did) during AB. So a bad hitter with an injury is who we're giving those AB too.[/BLOCKQUOTE] Which mean's I dunno because i confess I don;t realize what "Schrödinger's hurt" is. But if it means he's in Buck's Doghouse then-- what other explanation is there? So this is a thread where Wild Speculation is encouraged. So, "it's because we're approaching the trade deadline" could be an option.

Ceetar Jul 24 2022 08:52 AM Re: Is Jeff McNeil's Doghouse Reopening and Does It Deserve Its Own Thread?

no, i mean he's been banged up a lot and all we get from buck is stuff about "managing workload" non-answers. Is he hurt? is he not hurt? who knows! He's played some and been active for the ASG which means me think he's NOT hurt unless it's one of those things that flares up sometimes and not others? I think back to guys like Cespedes who the Mets were managing through a condition that they were aware of for years but we never knew about it. Good days/Bad days kind of thing.

Johnny Lunchbucket Jul 24 2022 09:34 AM Re: Is Jeff McNeil's Doghouse Reopening and Does It Deserve Its Own Thread?

So so far. The Theories. 1. Nido was actually the better option. 2. He's in Bucks doghouse--but why? 3. He's hurt 4. He's hurt, but only kinda hurt 5. He's actually fine, only there's a trade in the works--and it's built around McNeil

kcmets Jul 24 2022 09:40 AM Re: Is Jeff McNeil's Doghouse Reopening and Does It Deserve Its Own Thread?

I would be really disappointed in McNutty being dealt. Just sayin'.

smg58 Jul 24 2022 10:17 AM Re: Is Jeff McNeil's Doghouse Reopening and Does It Deserve Its Own Thread?

McNeil has been slumping all month, whether from injury or just slumping, and Showalter decided keeping the righthanded bat in against the lefty Rogers was the best option. You can agree or disagree with it -- personally, I disagree with it strongly -- but I don't think reading a whole lot into it is required. The bigger issue is do we have enough righthanded depth on the bench.

Johnny Lunchbucket Jul 24 2022 10:43 AM Re: Is Jeff McNeil's Doghouse Reopening and Does It Deserve Its Own Thread?

=smg58 post_id=100793 time=1658679457 user_id=62] McNeil has been slumping all month, whether from injury or just slumping, and Showalter decided keeping the righthanded bat in against the lefty Rogers was the best option. You can agree or disagree with it -- personally, I disagree with it strongly -- but I don't think reading a whole lot into it is required. The bigger issue is do we have enough righthanded depth on the bench.

Right, and you're a (1), and that might be, and/or you're a new option 6) -- He's slumping, and who'd know better than Buck?.



And I'm not saying, I'm just sayin', that if it happens to be 5--WoW.

Johnny Lunchbucket Jul 24 2022 10:46 AM Re: Is Jeff McNeil's Doghouse Reopening and Does It Deserve Its Own Thread?

So, the Updated Theories: So so far. The Theories. 1. Nido was actually the better option. 2. He's in Bucks doghouse--but why? 3. He's hurt 4. He's hurt, but only kinda hurt 5. He's actually fine, only there's a trade in the works--and it's built around McNeil 6. He's been slumping, and who'd know better than Buck if he's "still slumping"?

nymr83 Jul 24 2022 11:23 AM Re: Is Jeff McNeil's Doghouse Reopening and Does It Deserve Its Own Thread?

I don't buy #5 as an excuse. If a trade was IMMINENT you keep him out the lineup that day, but this is still a pennant race and with the game on the line in the 9th inning if he is still on the roster, which he was, he is hitting there. Not buying #6 either. Nido's career is best defined as prolonged slump. a slumping McNeil still should hit there. it needs to be injury related.

Ceetar Jul 24 2022 12:03 PM Re: Is Jeff McNeil's Doghouse Reopening and Does It Deserve Its Own Thread?

I don't buy #5 as an excuse. If a trade was IMMINENT you keep him out the lineup that day, but this is still a pennant race and with the game on the line in the 9th inning if he is still on the roster, which he was, he is hitting there. Not buying #6 either. Nido's career is best defined as prolonged slump. a slumping McNeil still should hit there. it needs to be injury related. yeah. he'd have been traded by now if it was #5, or at least, we'd have news. 6 is the same argument as "clutch". Slumps only exist in the past, they don't come to the plate (unless you get in your own head, but that's a different argument) with you the same way 3 heads in a row on a coin don't mean you're likely to flip a head again. Your season/career numbers are more predictive of your next AB than your last 3 AB (don't tell Apple/nVenue). They've just been weird around his hamstring. He's been rested for "wear and tear" on his legs. for "a breather". They sat him for over a week due to hamstring tightness, something that doesn't really fully clear up in a week usually. He didn't play the 8th or the 9th in front of being placed on the Paternity list on the 11th (I know kids aren't a "break" but you'd think he could play and get the physical baseball break during paternity leave right?) And then he sat again yesterday in the second game back? Doesn't seem like his body responded well to that first game right?

Edgy MD Jul 24 2022 12:22 PM Re: Is Jeff McNeil's Doghouse Reopening and Does It Deserve Its Own Thread?

=Ceetar post_id=100802 time=1658685810 user_id=102]Slumps only exist in the past, they don't come to the plate (unless you get in your own head, but that's a different argument)

Does anybody else believe this is a particularly different argument?

Johnny Lunchbucket Jul 24 2022 12:25 PM Re: Is Jeff McNeil's Doghouse Reopening and Does It Deserve Its Own Thread?

I don't buy #5 as an excuse. If a trade was IMMINENT you keep him out the lineup that day, but this is still a pennant race and with the game on the line in the 9th inning if he is still on the roster, which he was, he is hitting there. Not buying #6 either. Nido's career is best defined as prolonged slump. a slumping McNeil still should hit there. it needs to be injury related. yeah. he'd have been traded by now if it was #5, or at least, we'd have news. Again I ain't either saying what it, or what it isn't, I'm only trying to get a handle on the many things it could be. And I haven't crossed any off the list, what I want is more of them. And "we'd have heard about 5" does seem awfully likely, but: --Cohen is the richest guy in the world and one reason he's the richest guy in the world is that, at some level, directly AND indirectly, it's hard to become the richest guy in the world without also being exceptionally good at "knowing something the others don't know" and keeping secrets if only for his personal safety, much less something as inconsequential as a baseball trade. --It takes two to trade "he'd be traded already," well only if the other tem had agreed or not agreed at the time that potential AB came up. For all we know at that moment, Billy is about to close a deal but something came-on either side, or with anyone else who might be involved. --And the obvious, right? Any trade involving a starting all star is going be a giant one, and also, a complicated giant one Also not saying 6 is or isn't a thing, but it's quite possible theoretically, that through technology or whatever they've identified what they believe is at the heart of McNeil's "slumping," AND McNeil knows this as well, but he's just hasn't demonstrated to have "corrected" for that to anyone's satisfaction yet. Why couldn't that be a thing? Swings and timing are complicated things, that's why only super athletes can do them

kcmets Jul 24 2022 12:43 PM Re: Is Jeff McNeil's Doghouse Reopening and Does It Deserve Its Own Thread?

I took a nap, I rarely nap but I got a shot this morning had a few beers and a sandwich and slept for an hour. I woke up, logged on, and say it's a #2/#4 combo. Check DraftKings for odds that I'm sure will be advertised all night on ESPN.

batmagadanleadoff Jul 24 2022 12:45 PM Re: Is Jeff McNeil's Doghouse Reopening and Does It Deserve Its Own Thread?

6 is the same argument as "clutch". Slumps only exist in the past, they don't come to the plate (unless you get in your own head, but that's a different argument) with you the same way 3 heads in a row on a coin don't mean you're likely to flip a head again. Slumps happen. Slumps are more than bad luck and they're not necessarily a collection of random bad at-bats strung together in a streak, although they could be. At-bats aren't anything like coin flips. A balanced coin should behave the same way on every flip. A coin that comes up heads 50 times straight still has a 50-50 chance of coming up heads on the 51st flip. It's not likelier to come up tails on the 51st flip. It isn't "due" for tails, even though many people incorrectly think so. At-bats are totally different. A player could lose his mechanics, for example, or play for a while with a minor injury, not serious enough to sideline him, but severe enough to compromise his mechanics. I could go on with examples.

vtmet7 Jul 24 2022 03:31 PM Re: Is Jeff McNeil's Doghouse Reopening and Does It Deserve Its Own Thread?

I think that it might have something to do with McNeil's lack of production since his baby was born... Jeff McNeil Batting Gamelogs for Career Games 446 to 450 22 Plate Appearances; 2 hits; 1 run; .105 batting average; .227 OBP; .105 Slugging Percentage; .332 OPS .118 BAbip sounds like he's not hitting the ball very hard (or right at people)... Mets' Jeff McNeil: Not starting Saturday Rotowire Jul 23, 2022 McNeil isn't starting Saturday's game against the Padres. McNeil is getting a chance to reset after he went 0-for-10 with a run and a walk over the last three games. Luis Guillorme will take over at the keystone and bat seventh. Rotowire Jul 14, 2022 McNeil (personal) was reinstated from the paternity list Thursday and will start in left field and bat fifth in his return to the lineup for the Mets' series finale with the Cubs. McNeil rejoined the Mets in Chicago after he missed the entire three-game series in Atlanta while observing the birth of his child.

nymr83 Jul 24 2022 07:42 PM Re: Is Jeff McNeil's Doghouse Reopening and Does It Deserve Its Own Thread?

Maybe there is something to that? not getting enough sleep since the kid was born? My reaction times feel slower when i'm tired. how much reaction time do you need to lose before it has an effect trying to hit a 90 mph baseball? i'd think 'not much'

Edgy MD Jul 24 2022 08:05 PM Re: Is Jeff McNeil's Doghouse Reopening and Does It Deserve Its Own Thread?

McNeil flew to California for the birth, so I'm guessing his family isn't currently with him in New York.

roger_that Jul 25 2022 03:33 AM Re: Is Jeff McNeil's Doghouse Reopening and Does It Deserve Its Own Thread?

Buck seemed unusually defensive and hostile when asked why he didn't pinch-hit McNeil for Nido. Any time a manager gives reporters "That's a stupid amateur question, and you're dumb for asking it of me, one of the smartest professionals in the business ever" answers, I start thinking "Hmmm, maybe the reporter struck a nerve."

Edgy MD Jul 25 2022 06:28 AM Re: Is Jeff McNeil's Doghouse Reopening and Does It Deserve Its Own Thread?

For a team that seemed pretty committed to getting no-hit the first half of the evening last night, in the end, the only one who didn't end up in the hit column was McNeil.

Johnny Lunchbucket Jul 26 2022 06:05 AM Re: Is Jeff McNeil's Doghouse Reopening and Does It Deserve Its Own Thread?

Buck seemed unusually defensive and hostile when asked why he didn't pinch-hit McNeil for Nido. Any time a manager gives reporters "That's a stupid amateur question, and you're dumb for asking it of me, one of the smartest professionals in the business ever" answers, I start thinking "Hmmm, maybe the reporter struck a nerve." That wasn't really my take on Bucks demeanor, he wasn't hostile and he only cast dispersions on the reporter in the sense that it was obvious he wasn't interested in addressing the question, and tried to frame as though it was among many decisions so to him it wasn't so extraordinary. I'd add here he also knew the reporter wasn't buying it. That too was obvious to us. Hostility and saying the reporter is stupid is what Nick Castellano did this weekend. I know that because he said "that's a stupid question" then proceeded to denigrate both the reporter and the question once there was pushback.

Edgy MD Jul 26 2022 06:46 AM Re: Is Jeff McNeil's Doghouse Reopening and Does It Deserve Its Own Thread?

Buck's also been clear that he's particularly wary about giving the opposition useful information in his pre-game and post-game comments. So he'll quickly squash a question in a way that can seem harsh but is really his way of telling a questioner that he knows it's your job to ask that question, but there won't be any answers so save your time. It can come across as surly, but I think it's more roleplaying.

roger_that Jul 26 2022 07:46 AM Re: Is Jeff McNeil's Doghouse Reopening and Does It Deserve Its Own Thread?

Nah, a "No comment" establishes "Not answering that one" just fine. Buck added some extra pepper in his tone, and in his specific comments, which included (going on memory here) "You (plural?) don't understand all the complicated thoughts that go through my head in every inning of every game, so I can't comment on the one specific thought you're asking about." which came off to me at least as patronizing and unnecessarily hostile. All the reporter asked was something like "Did you think about pinchhitting McNeil for Nido?" which didn't strike me as at all obnoxious or deserving of that sort of dismissive answer. Seemed fair enough to me.

Ceetar Jul 26 2022 08:05 AM Re: Is Jeff McNeil's Doghouse Reopening and Does It Deserve Its Own Thread?

Johnny Lunchbucket wrote: Hostility and saying the reporter is stupid is what Nick Castellano did this weekend. I know that because he said "that's a stupid question" then proceeded to denigrate both the reporter and the question once there was pushback. nah asking a player "did you hear the boos?" is essentially saying "hey man, they think you sucked tonight, did you know that?" and then, after he responds sarcastically, which is still a valid response, you PRESS HIM FURTHER. like "no, fuck you, really tell me about how you sucked tonight" and then, after that, one of the other media members in the clubhouse insults and denigrates one of the female reporters there. and people wonder why players are hostile to the media. But Jim Salisbury got his sound byte and gets to be part of the story I guess, so good for him.

roger_that Jul 26 2022 08:27 AM Re: Is Jeff McNeil's Doghouse Reopening and Does It Deserve Its Own Thread?

Well, asking Buck "Did you think about pinchhitting McNeil for Nido?" is just a polite way of asking "Why did you decide not to pinch hit McNeil for Nido?" because everyone knows that, if Buck is operating with more than five brain cells of course he thought about it, and rejected it. But Buck superciliously chose to take the polite form literally and answered him about all the things he thinks about in the course of a game are far too many for him to explain all of his complex thoughts and blablabla. That's what I consider obnoxious. Even the ruder form of the question is legit, and Buck was choosing to imply that he was SOOOOO much smarter than the reporter (which he may be, and may not be) that he can't answer the literal question he was asked.

Ceetar Jul 26 2022 08:37 AM Re: Is Jeff McNeil's Doghouse Reopening and Does It Deserve Its Own Thread?

do you have a link to the press conference out of curiosity? I find most of them pretty boring, so I don't regularly consume them.

roger_that Jul 26 2022 09:40 AM Re: Is Jeff McNeil's Doghouse Reopening and Does It Deserve Its Own Thread?

Sorry, going on two-day old memories here.

Marshmallowmilkshake Jul 26 2022 11:26 AM Re: Is Jeff McNeil's Doghouse Reopening and Does It Deserve Its Own Thread?

Johnny Lunchbucket wrote: Hostility and saying the reporter is stupid is what Nick Castellano did this weekend. I know that because he said "that's a stupid question" then proceeded to denigrate both the reporter and the question once there was pushback. You are correct. I get that Castellano is frustrated and is pressing. But "That's a stupid question" Is never the right answer. Every question is an opportunity. When they stick a mic in your face, you can say what you want. Escobar did a great job with a similar question. I'm struggling and I want to give the fans something to cheer for.

Johnny Lunchbucket Jul 26 2022 07:48 PM Re: Is Jeff McNeil's Doghouse Reopening and Does It Deserve Its Own Thread?

Johnny Lunchbucket wrote: Hostility and saying the reporter is stupid is what Nick Castellano did this weekend. I know that because he said "that's a stupid question" then proceeded to denigrate both the reporter and the question once there was pushback. nah asking a player "did you hear the boos?" is essentially saying "hey man, they think you sucked tonight, did you know that?" and then, after he responds sarcastically, which is still a valid response, you PRESS HIM FURTHER. like "no, fuck you, really tell me about how you sucked tonight" and then, after that, one of the other media members in the clubhouse insults and denigrates one of the female reporters there. and people wonder why players are hostile to the media. But Jim Salisbury got his sound byte and gets to be part of the story I guess, so good for him. I feel this is definitely the wrong take, but The Marshmallows Man says this better than would anyway. Though it's almost a completely separate point, i feel like it's not made enough and its this: that even if i agreed with what you said and you changed my mind, its still problematic. So as you may recall, is that this thing began, when Roger said Buck was hostile., and I disagreed, wth the notion that Buck was hostile. And I also said why it was not hostile, but something else instead. Then I said, so we were all sure-- me, Roger, anyone, right? -- that one way i also know whether Buck was hostile was that a similar situation came up, and that was what hostile at least to me. Hostile or not hostile. So that, if someone happens to disagree with me, it at some level, they should also honor, and address their disagreement, on the notion of hostility, maybe Castellano's hostility, or maybe its Bucks hostility. Maybe they are both hostile! Maybe neither demonstrate what you think is hostile, but that you have a different definition of hostile, as i did with Roger. But it's that-- hostility. What is hostile? What is not hostile? So sure enough it happens, and even the part quoted, begins "hostility is ...." And that argument essentially begins with and then proceeds to argue, for "So what's wrong with being sarcastic?"

Ceetar Jul 26 2022 08:10 PM Re: Is Jeff McNeil's Doghouse Reopening and Does It Deserve Its Own Thread?

I think the Mets have been hostile to the media for roughly 10 years, especially once Sandy left the first time, and mostly the media just seems to take it except every once in a while they get uppity about it, and it feels like they do it at all the wrong times. I didn't see the Buck thing so I don't want to try to assign a hostility ranking to that, but I DO wish the media would press him, hostile or not, on what exactly is McNeil's situation, because THAT is something that has value to readers/viewers, but it just doesn't happen.

nymr83 Jul 26 2022 08:11 PM Re: Is Jeff McNeil's Doghouse Reopening and Does It Deserve Its Own Thread?

What was the question? WAS it a stupid question? like when the reporter asked a then underaged Bryce Harper if he was drinking.

Edgy MD Jul 26 2022 08:13 PM Re: Is Jeff McNeil's Doghouse Reopening and Does It Deserve Its Own Thread?

It's better to post your hot take and then get the facts. It keeps things moving and it's more Internetty that way.

Ceetar Jul 26 2022 08:16 PM Re: Is Jeff McNeil's Doghouse Reopening and Does It Deserve Its Own Thread?

What was the question? WAS it a stupid question? like when the reporter asked a then underaged Bryce Harper if he was drinking. "Did you hear the boos when you struck out there?" "No man, i lost my hearing" "So you didn't hear them." "Come on man, that's a stupid question." "Why is it a stupid question?" Nick, to the other reporters "Can anyone else answer that for him? Anybody? Yeah man, it's a stupid question." "it's not a stupid question.' if it's a stupid question you should be equip to answer it"

nymr83 Jul 26 2022 08:20 PM Re: Is Jeff McNeil's Doghouse Reopening and Does It Deserve Its Own Thread?

That is a stupid question.

Edgy MD Jul 26 2022 08:25 PM Re: Is Jeff McNeil's Doghouse Reopening and Does It Deserve Its Own Thread?

DOGHOUSE EXITED!

kcmets Jul 26 2022 08:26 PM Re: Is Jeff McNeil's Doghouse Reopening and Does It Deserve Its Own Thread?

"Thought about it and three other things, went with my move."

Marshmallowmilkshake Jul 26 2022 08:32 PM Re: Is Jeff McNeil's Doghouse Reopening and Does It Deserve Its Own Thread?

"Did you hear the boos when you struck out there?" I did. I know the fans are frustrated. They're passionate. I'm frustrated. I know I can do better, and I will. That's how you answer that, and move on. If they come back with the similar question, you answer with a variation.

Edgy MD Jul 26 2022 08:41 PM Re: Is Jeff McNeil's Doghouse Reopening and Does It Deserve Its Own Thread?

It's pretty much written in 20-point type in Crash Davis' cliche book.

batmagadanleadoff Jul 26 2022 08:47 PM Re: Is Jeff McNeil's Doghouse Reopening and Does It Deserve Its Own Thread?

This is all so vomit inducing. I guess no one's supposed to speak the truth anymore. It's all so calculated. Everybody's supposed to be a politician. Here's one: if you can't handle a truthful answer, dont ask the question in the first place.

Edgy MD Jul 26 2022 08:53 PM Re: Is Jeff McNeil's Doghouse Reopening and Does It Deserve Its Own Thread?

Vomit inducing.

Marshmallowmilkshake Jul 27 2022 05:35 AM Re: Is Jeff McNeil's Doghouse Reopening and Does It Deserve Its Own Thread?

Edgy MD wrote: Vomit inducing. Inducing vomit is better than creating a distraction for the team. And the response I suggested was truthful. He heard the boos, he needs to do better.

whippoorwill Jul 27 2022 06:19 AM Re: Is Jeff McNeil's Doghouse Reopening and Does It Deserve Its Own Thread?

It was a stupid question though

Edgy MD Jul 27 2022 06:44 AM Re: Is Jeff McNeil's Doghouse Reopening and Does It Deserve Its Own Thread?

Edgy MD wrote: Vomit inducing. Inducing vomit is better than creating a distraction for the team. And the response I suggested was truthful. He heard the boos, he needs to do better. I wasn't really meaning to express that. I was just paraphrasing the post above mine to implicitly note that we really can jump to the most extreme of takes on something that isn't even really the topic.

Marshmallowmilkshake Jul 27 2022 07:16 AM Re: Is Jeff McNeil's Doghouse Reopening and Does It Deserve Its Own Thread?

Edgy MD wrote: Edgy MD wrote: Vomit inducing. Inducing vomit is better than creating a distraction for the team. And the response I suggested was truthful. He heard the boos, he needs to do better. I wasn't really meaning to express that. I was just paraphrasing the post above mine to implicitly note that we really can jump to the most extreme of takes on something that isn't even really the topic. Ah. Understood. I don't see posts from some posters and didn't understand the context. Apologies.

roger_that Jul 27 2022 07:30 AM Re: Is Jeff McNeil's Doghouse Reopening and Does It Deserve Its Own Thread?

I think we need a whole new thread on "managerial evasions to the press."

Centerfield Jul 27 2022 11:23 AM Re: Is Jeff McNeil's Doghouse Reopening and Does It Deserve Its Own Thread?

I think some of this is the sound on my TV, but I have yet to hear a word Showalter has said in any of his post-game interviews. If I were a Mets beat guy I think I'd spend my entire night saying "I'm sorry, what?"

vtmet7 Jul 28 2022 10:53 AM Re: Is Jeff McNeil's Doghouse Reopening and Does It Deserve Its Own Thread?

I think some of this is the sound on my TV, but I have yet to hear a word Showalter has said in any of his post-game interviews. If I were a Mets beat guy I think I'd spend my entire night saying "I'm sorry, what?" lol...every time he speaks, I have to jack up my tv volume...watched Tuesday's post game interview clip on mlb.tv yesterday, and then the "condensed game" came on after I had made the Buck Showalter adjustment...my wife yelled at me for Gary's/Howie's emotional outbursts because I forgot to de-Buck the volume on the tv... funny thing is, I don't remember Buck being that quiet when he was working for MLB Network...