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Stupid New Rules for 2023 (the Rob Manfred Hates Baseball Thread)

Fman99 Sep 09 2022 12:48 PM

Just announced, officially. 1. An official pitch clock and penalties to batters and/or pitchers for taking too long 2. Bases increase in size from 15" to 18" 3. Banning of the shift - all infielders must start each pitch on the dirt and there must be two on either side of 2nd base I'm pretty indifferent to items #1 and #2 above but banning the shift is mad stupid. You can beat the shift by dropping a bunt down the line, except of course that no one hardly ever does it.

Benjamin Grimm Sep 09 2022 01:04 PM Re: Stupid New Rules for 2023 (the Rob Manfred Hates Baseball Thread)

Any word on the phantom extra-inning runner?

cal sharpie Sep 09 2022 01:10 PM Re: Stupid New Rules for 2023 (the Rob Manfred Hates Baseball Thread)

Have to figure that there will be a lot of plays against lefthanded batters with the third baseman in the shortstop position and the shortstop one step away from the second base bag.

MFS62 Sep 09 2022 01:12 PM Re: Stupid New Rules for 2023 (the Rob Manfred Hates Baseball Thread)

Making the bag bigger will do exactly diddly squat toward improving the game. What's next, allowing players to use those oversized clown-hand sized gloves in the field? What was the reason they gave for THAT change? Did some precious millionaire get spiked? Making it easier for a runner to touch the base? Learn how to slide, dammit! Later

Fman99 Sep 09 2022 01:16 PM Re: Stupid New Rules for 2023 (the Rob Manfred Hates Baseball Thread)

I think, honestly, after about 10 or 11 inches, you're, ahem, leaving some of it out on the field, if you get my meaning. (#penises)

kcmets Sep 09 2022 01:33 PM Re: Stupid New Rules for 2023 (the Rob Manfred Hates Baseball Thread)

Pitch clock --> smart Jumbo bases and telling players where they can stand --> stoopid Ghost-runner --> pathetically out of touch with what's good for baseball

Ceetar Sep 09 2022 01:42 PM Re: Stupid New Rules for 2023 (the Rob Manfred Hates Baseball Thread)

wait, why is anyone against bigger bags? even in the obvious sense (average foot size over the last 100 years is bigger, the other thing too probably), separating the fielder and the runner a bit just makes sense. Plus there will be a few less minute over-slides that a lot of people think shouldn't be outs, this will help with that. I won't go into the shift thing again, it's stupid, this won't help, it's clear Rob Manfred ais team of morons don't think about these things in a baseball sense, only a marketing/television sense. What bothers me about the pitch clock stuff is the pickoffs. Mandating 2 pickoffs is dumb. Only a moron would look at the pitcher-runner interaction and think "no one likes that! They're booing because they hate it, not because it's part of the fan-interaction entertainment element of baseball!" It's going to make all sorts of weird "technical foul" type errors, and runners with 60 foot leads, etc. Also trying to lockdown mid-inning songs/entertainment (like Lazy Mary) And long walkup songs, because clearly no one likes those. (hint hint, they mostly happen off-camera, so there's no TV value derived from it)

MFS62 Sep 09 2022 01:49 PM Re: Stupid New Rules for 2023 (the Rob Manfred Hates Baseball Thread)

=Fman99 post_id=106743 time=1662750995 user_id=86] I think, honestly, after about 10 or 11 inches, you're, ahem, leaving some of it out on the field, if you get my meaning. (#penises)

[CROSSOUT]And dragging it in the dirt used to slow me down when I was running the bases.

[/CROSSOUT]

Got it.

Later

Frayed Knot Sep 09 2022 01:49 PM Re: Stupid New Rules for 2023 (the Rob Manfred Hates Baseball Thread)

Pitch clock -- it's time (no pun intended). Its use has knocked 20-30 minutes off of minor league games where it's been used. Now if they'd only listen to me and further reduce mound conferences and additional warmup pitches for incoming relievers they'd save even more dead time. Larger bases -- I'm pretty indifferent to this. There's nothing sacred about 15" bags so isn't like breaking a commandment. The idea is to make stolen bases slightly more tempting. Most likely no one will even notice the difference. Shift Ban -- I don't like it but, as mentioned above, it's only going to ban the more extreme shifts and maybe it encourages base hits over swinging for the fences alla time. Just thought of this: are there rules and regs as to how large the dirt area can be?

MFS62 Sep 09 2022 02:02 PM Re: Stupid New Rules for 2023 (the Rob Manfred Hates Baseball Thread)

It's going to make all sorts of weird "technical foul" type errors, and runners with 60 foot leads, etc. Just noticed this. You're right. Does the new rule mean that after two pickoff attempts, the runner can walk almost to second base and the pitcher can't do anything about it? That rule needs a lot of refinement or clarification. Otherwise, I envision a lot of runners scoring from first on a single. Later

Edgy MD Sep 09 2022 02:09 PM Re: Stupid New Rules for 2023 (the Rob Manfred Hates Baseball Thread)

There's nothing sacred about 15" bags, but there is something sacred (if only kinda) about 90' basepaths. The issue with the shift is that they aren't addressing the real problem, and asking what has happened to the game that it hasn't evolved to counteract the shift. Why do they have to reverse engineer the game to prevent teams from deploying a defective strategy. If a football team's defense stacked the line play after play and left only one defender in the backfield, the other team would quickly respond and toss quick passes over the line, until the first team realize they've been outmaneuvered and spread their defense neutrally for most plays. If the defense played everybody in the backfield on every play, the offense would run off tackle in response. If they played everybody on the offense's left side, the offense would call a quick audible and run a play to the right. Even if you're not playing to your strengths, if they're giving you free yardage, you've got to take it until everybody gets honest. Why is it somehow unsporting for a baseball team to adapt in the same manner?

Ceetar Sep 09 2022 02:10 PM Re: Stupid New Rules for 2023 (the Rob Manfred Hates Baseball Thread)

it looks like if you throw a third time it's "sudden death" if you don't get him, he gets second. (and other runners get a free base) That's slightly better, but I can't see a lot of guys throwing over a third time unless the guy's 40+ feet down the line. So it's almost a gimme stolen base UNLESS the batter fouls it off. It's clearly poorly thought out, like everything Rob Manfred does.

smg58 Sep 09 2022 03:09 PM Re: Stupid New Rules for 2023 (the Rob Manfred Hates Baseball Thread)

Shouldn't we have started a Rob Manfred Hates Baseball Thread as soon as he got the job? The shift shortens games by turning hits into outs, and it punishes the three-true-outcome style that has permeated the game and led to much longer at-bats. If Manfred really wanted to shorten games, he would embrace shifting. And pitchers hitting too, but that ship has sadly sailed.

Willets Point Sep 09 2022 07:08 PM Re: Stupid New Rules for 2023 (the Rob Manfred Hates Baseball Thread)

2 out of 3 ain't bad. Restrictions on shifting the infielders is dumb and counterproductive.

Gwreck Sep 09 2022 07:11 PM Re: Stupid New Rules for 2023 (the Rob Manfred Hates Baseball Thread)

Speeding up the game by using pitch clock means that the stupid free runner can go away. All agreed? Great.

metsmarathon Sep 09 2022 07:49 PM Re: Stupid New Rules for 2023 (the Rob Manfred Hates Baseball Thread)

quick. what's the minimum distance from first base to second base, before the new rule with bigger bases? it's not 90' and even if it was 90', shaving 6" off the distance, reducing it by 0.55% while giving the players 44% more area on a base upon which to place their delicate fingers and hamate bones without getting crushed by immovable spikes, then it's a fair tradeoff. i'm cool with it. the shift thing is stupid, but i think that will play itself out.

Fman99 Sep 10 2022 04:59 AM Re: Stupid New Rules for 2023 (the Rob Manfred Hates Baseball Thread)

The players have officially gone on the record through their union to also indicate they do not favor the pitch clock or the shift ban. So, really, who's clamoring for this exactly?

whippoorwill Sep 10 2022 07:04 AM Re: Stupid New Rules for 2023 (the Rob Manfred Hates Baseball Thread)

I read number 2 as BATS increase to 18”. Not sure why that didn't make me stop and wonder I'm not a fan of the shift, except how they used it in the old days against certain batters in certain situations. Banning it altogether seems over the top. Pitch clock…no, just no. Batters screwing around between pitches, yes, just yes, time that. Ghost runner…🤦‍♀️

Marshmallowmilkshake Sep 10 2022 10:09 AM Re: Stupid New Rules for 2023 (the Rob Manfred Hates Baseball Thread)

Joel Sherman had an interesting column in the Post about the rule changes and how it will affect rosters. [url]https://nypost.com/2022/09/10/why-mlbs-new-rules-will-bring-seismic-change-to-game-rosters/ I like the point Edgy made a while ago about problem isn't necessarily long games, but the dead time during games. Cutting down on the half-hearted throws to first is a good thing. Half the time I think the pitcher is stalling as he lobs one over to first when the batter is a step off the bag. I'd rather beat the shift competitively than through the rules, but this doesn't really upset me that much. If the larger bases are really to prevent injuries, go for it. I don't know if the extra couple of inches will increase steals, but I don't think it's that intrusive of change. Where are you seeing anything about the ghost runner? None of the writeups I've found are mentioning it.

Gwreck Sep 10 2022 10:27 AM Re: Stupid New Rules for 2023 (the Rob Manfred Hates Baseball Thread)

There has been no coverage about the idiotic ghost runner. The point is that given these other rule changes, the “justification” for that rule has been eliminated, and that abomination should be eliminated post haste.

Ceetar Sep 10 2022 10:35 AM Re: Stupid New Rules for 2023 (the Rob Manfred Hates Baseball Thread)

This was about instituting new rules, not revoking other ones, so it's mostly unrelated to the zombie runner. Hopefully they drop that, but they have no incentive to. The whole point is to be able to more reliably block out the amount of time a game is on television for so they can budget schedules and sell advertising. I suspect much of the shift stuff is the same nonsense people that complain about it tout. Despite it being driven by competitiveness, it feels "unfair" like when your older brother stands real close and over you and tells you to try to make a basketball shot. It's not like that of course, banning the shift is not going to make baseball "better" but it will institute some weird offsides penalties and delays.

Frayed Knot Sep 10 2022 11:22 AM Re: Stupid New Rules for 2023 (the Rob Manfred Hates Baseball Thread)

=Fman99 post_id=106820 time=1662807543 user_id=86] The players have officially gone on the record through their union to also indicate they do not favor the pitch clock or the shift ban. So, really, who's clamoring for this exactly?

There was a statement from the union saying something about how the owners weren't addressing unspecified (presumably other) player concerns and so their no votes on these rules sounds more like a protest than a rejection.

'Oh, they're for it? In that case we're against.'

whippoorwill Sep 10 2022 12:06 PM Re: Stupid New Rules for 2023 (the Rob Manfred Hates Baseball Thread)

Oh , sorry

Frayed Knot Sep 10 2022 03:22 PM Re: Stupid New Rules for 2023 (the Rob Manfred Hates Baseball Thread)

Edgy MD wrote: There's nothing sacred about 15" bags, but there is something sacred (if only kinda) about 90' basepaths. And that's not changing. The 90 ft isn't measured from the closest edges of the bags.

Edgy MD Sep 12 2022 12:13 PM Re: Stupid New Rules for 2023 (the Rob Manfred Hates Baseball Thread)

The distance between bases decreases by 5.5 inches. As for the Manfred Man, from 2016 to 2019, the away team had a .485 winning pct. in extra innings. In the last two years, the away teams have had a .536 winning pct. So we're looking at something like the difference between a Bobby Valentine Mets team and a Joe Frazier Mets team. I think this goes down as a "changing the integrity of the game" issue.

Gwreck Sep 12 2022 12:48 PM Re: Stupid New Rules for 2023 (the Rob Manfred Hates Baseball Thread)

Edgy MD wrote: As for the Manfred Man, from 2016 to 2019, the away team had a .485 winning pct. in extra innings. In the last two years, the away teams have had a .536 winning pct. So we're looking at something like the difference between a Bobby Valentine Mets team and a Joe Frazier Mets team. I think this goes down as a "changing the integrity of the game" issue. Agreed. That is a startling statistic and should be discussed more broadly. I've long felt that the extra runner unfairly privileges the weaker team but that data is quite striking.

Frayed Knot Sep 12 2022 01:43 PM Re: Stupid New Rules for 2023 (the Rob Manfred Hates Baseball Thread)

What is the source for those stats?

Edgy MD Sep 12 2022 01:56 PM Re: Stupid New Rules for 2023 (the Rob Manfred Hates Baseball Thread)

Some Guy on the Internet.TM I'll try to independently verify.

Edgy MD Sep 12 2022 02:03 PM Re: Stupid New Rules for 2023 (the Rob Manfred Hates Baseball Thread)

Here's some verification from The Good Phight, at least of the latter number, though re-running the math quickly, I'm getting a .534 winning percentage, instead of .536. I hope to dig further later, but the real world calls.

Willets Point Sep 12 2022 02:56 PM Re: Stupid New Rules for 2023 (the Rob Manfred Hates Baseball Thread)

Okay, this is funny. [TWEET]https://twitter.com/SamNeher24/status/1568287553283067905[/TWEET]

DocTee Sep 12 2022 04:57 PM Re: Stupid New Rules for 2023 (the Rob Manfred Hates Baseball Thread)

Question (I'm too lazy to look it up): How does the MM affect stats? Like ERA-- is it counted against the pitcher? Does a batter who drives him in get the RBI? Does the ghost runner accrue the run he scores?

Benjamin Grimm Sep 12 2022 05:00 PM Re: Stupid New Rules for 2023 (the Rob Manfred Hates Baseball Thread)

It's an unearned run. It's scored as if the runner reached base on an error. The Run and the RBI count in the stats.

DocTee Sep 12 2022 05:08 PM Re: Stupid New Rules for 2023 (the Rob Manfred Hates Baseball Thread)

thank you!