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The #LOLMets BLEW the Traid Deadline!!!!

Chad ochoseis Oct 05 2022 07:24 AM

Just wanted to comment on how much this angle, which I've been hearing constantly, pisses me off. - The Mets actually played pretty well past the trade deadline. The Braves just went on a major tear. For all the nonsense about the sweep, in the end we pretty much split the season series and may well wind up just a half game out in the standings, assuming today's game is rained out and not made up. Otherwise, we conceivably still could have lost out by dint of having the exact same record and losing a tiebreaker 10-9. It's not possible to get any closer than that. - I submit that the Mets panicked and tried to do too much. JD Davis was underperforming, but in no world would any reasonable person have expected Darin Ruf to be an improvement. There are trades that make sense on paper and don't work out; that stuff happens. But trading a comparatively young, average, right-handed hitter with a below average but adequate glove for an old, below average, right-handed hitter who is unable to play the field at all was stupid from the start. We played the stupid game and won the stupid prize. Never mind the tear JD went on after he was traded. If he'd just stayed JD and we didn't make the trade just to "do something!!!", we'd be looking at a week off right now. Doing something just for the sake of doing something is dumb.

Benjamin Grimm Oct 05 2022 07:28 AM Re: The #LOLMets BLEW the Traid Deadline!!!!

We may also come to regret that Nick Zwack was included in that trade.

Chad ochoseis Oct 05 2022 07:38 AM Re: The #LOLMets BLEW the Traid Deadline!!!!

Yeah, I didn't even rant about the fact that we actually threw in extra prospects to sweeten the deal.

Ceetar Oct 05 2022 07:40 AM Re: The #LOLMets BLEW the Traid Deadline!!!!

I've been harping on this since BEFORE the deadline (and they blew last year's too). So putting aside that they were favored to win the division both years and _didn't_, let's specifically talk about the deadline. Givens was a good pickup. They needed relievers. They probably needed one more. They needed offense, specifically, they needed power. We see how the Mets go when their boppers aren't bopping. Daniel Vogelbach, Naquin, Ruf, etc have very specific use cases where you can maximize what's mostly 1-tool. J.D. Davis, was, and is, the better _ballplayer_ and to me, you always try to have the better ballplayer, with exceptions for being blocked, getting more versatile and flexible with lineups and playing time, which isn't something that platoon players generally give you. Granted, Davis is poor defensively, but that wasn't really what the issue was. The Mets wouldn't have wanted to move Escobar to second to play Davis at third and McNeil in the OF when Marte went down, but it's probably better _offensively_ than using Guillorme as much as they did. And I don't want to denigrate Luis too much, because he did well! but he has like negative power and lack of power was one of the Mets issues. (Davis would've been second on the team since the deadline in HR) And then there is catcher. Whatever lies we want to tell about McCann being somehow key for a rotation of veterans, he can't hit. Nido also can't hit. No one can hit. Álvarez, can probably hit. Wilson Contreras, can hit. Some other type of move that might've been out there, also probably better than McCann. It boils down to the Mets deciding they were "good enough". Getting platoon guys and pinch runners are playoff-shoring up moves, not 'try to win as many second half games as possible' moves. The Mets should've been the better team. But, granted, thanks to above average player development and trust in rookies, Atlanta is typically underrated. the _Mets_ though, should've known this. The signs were there that despite 'talent' and 'projections' suggesting the Mets were the better team and they'd just have to play normally to win the division, they might actually have to step it up and not coast.... ...unless you're okay with simply a wild card berth. So either the Mets were fine losing the bye, or they mis-evaluated the needs of the team and the strength of the competition. So in some sense, they absolutely blew the trade deadline.

Gwreck Oct 05 2022 08:11 AM Re: The #LOLMets BLEW the Traid Deadline!!!!

The last month, particularly with the Marte injury, has exposed the Mets for having insufficient offensive depth. The problem wasn't trading JD Davis for Ruf, the problem was that the team needs another hitter (or two) better than either of those players. Of course, the team still won 100 games. In almost every season that gets you the division. There are 3 (maybe 4) other elite teams this year and one plays in our division.

Edgy MD Oct 05 2022 08:16 AM Re: The #LOLMets BLEW the Traid Deadline!!!!

Benjamin Grimm wrote: We may also come to regret that Nick Zwack was included in that trade. Come to regret?

Marshmallowmilkshake Oct 05 2022 08:30 AM Re: The #LOLMets BLEW the Traid Deadline!!!!

Which of our top prospects were you willing to trade to get someone like Willson Contrares? Vientos? Baty? Because that's what teams were asking for. The fact that they had to overpay for Ruf, to me, is an indication that they were not going to get one of those top upgrades without losing some of those top prospects. If JD Davis or Dom were playing anywhere near to what was expected of them, we wouldn't have needed to chase people like Ruf.

Benjamin Grimm Oct 05 2022 08:38 AM Re: The #LOLMets BLEW the Traid Deadline!!!!

Edgy MD wrote: Benjamin Grimm wrote: We may also come to regret that Nick Zwack was included in that trade. Come to regret? Well, yeah, I regret it already, but Zwack may turn out to be a big nothing, in which case it won't really matter. I don't object to the notion of trading J.D. Davis... He was probably the best player that they were willing to part with. I just wish that they had leveraged him better, for a player that would have contributed. There's a chance that we'll see this deal differently if Ruf hits 30 homers next season. (Unless he does it for the Texas Rangers.)

Edgy MD Oct 05 2022 08:39 AM Re: The #LOLMets BLEW the Traid Deadline!!!!

Zwack is already something. He's NICK ZWACK! That's his NAME! I try not to care about traids that weren't maid. I actual don't try. I SUCCEED. Fuck it. I CELEBRATE! Or CELEBRAIT! Or whatever.

smg58 Oct 05 2022 11:04 AM Re: The #LOLMets BLEW the Traid Deadline!!!!

I think they gambled on Alvarez being ready to contribute at this level by Labor Day, especially since the Cubs were not budging on Contreras, but Alvarez got hurt. (And I'm guessing he played hurt when he was struggling at AAA.) Honestly that's what I would have done, but it backfired. You have to admit the mistake on the Ruf deal. The Mets went from being overly aggressive on getting relievers under van Wegenen to not being nearly aggressive enough. Relievers are easy to find and cheap at the deadline, but they just haven't been enough of a priority.

Ceetar Oct 05 2022 11:10 AM Re: The #LOLMets BLEW the Traid Deadline!!!!

=smg58 post_id=110025 time=1664989499 user_id=62] You have to admit the mistake on the Ruf deal. The Mets went from being overly aggressive on getting relievers under van Wegenen to not being nearly aggressive enough. Relievers are easy to find and cheap at the deadline, but they just haven't been enough of a priority.

Alderson has never been good with relievers/bullpen. It's not surprise that the Mets best year was when they struck gold with Addison Reed.

Marshmallowmilkshake Oct 05 2022 11:43 AM Re: The #LOLMets BLEW the Traid Deadline!!!!

=smg58 post_id=110025 time=1664989499 user_id=62] I think they gambled on Alvarez being ready to contribute at this level by Labor Day, especially since the Cubs were not budging on Contreras, but Alvarez got hurt. (And I'm guessing he played hurt when he was struggling at AAA.) Honestly that's what I would have done, but it backfired. You have to admit the mistake on the Ruf deal. The Mets went from being overly aggressive on getting relievers under van Wegenen to not being nearly aggressive enough. Relievers are easy to find and cheap at the deadline, but they just haven't been enough of a priority.

I think they way-overpaid for Ruf, especially if he was playing hurt, as it is now expected. That one totally backfired!

Edgy MD Oct 05 2022 12:34 PM Re: The #LOLMets BLEW the Traid Deadline!!!!

If relievers are easy to find and cheap (I'm not sure this is true, as these are relative terms), it may be because they aren't particularly valuable (also a relative term), and often as likely to hurt as they are to help when added at the deadline. The Mets' bullpen went 6-1 / 3.43 (fourth in the league) in September. This is true, despite having the best reliever in the league and barely ever finding a situation to deploy him. This is also true despite the bullpen taking on an increased workload as starters exited the game earlier than than they had at earlier junctions of the season. Maybe if the Mets traded prospects to get or Joe Mantiply or David Bednar at the deadline, the Mets are celebrating a division title, as they perhaps already are in another timeline, but my take is that it is as likely very much the opposite (Bednar, a hot name at the time, got hurt right after the deadline anyhow). Maybe in another timeline, years down the road, one of those prospects is a difference maker in a later season, and Met fan lamentations will fill the city night.

Edgy MD Oct 05 2022 02:12 PM Judge Splinter

Sometimes you come up short at a position, or a season, not because you compromised, but because your investment or investments didn't pan out. And while you wanted to pivot to alternatives, you were unable to find candidates that struck you as wiser alternatives. Or you retain faith in your original investment to turn around, but it doesn't. Sometimes, despite all the resources in the world, given a finite number of roster spots, you make the wrong decisions. Or you make the right ones and they fall victim to entirely unpredictable circumstances. Or in the Mets' case, you pivot just as your original investment is ready to turn around. Maybe they should have ridden Smith and Davis out. I dunno. You can be rich (even be the richest) and be wrong — wrong for the right reasons and wrong for the wrong ones. it's far more nuanced than a guy being crazy rich and therefore failure is unacceptable. Astros owner Jim Crane is one of the handful of least wealthy MLB owners, but he got some of the most DH production this season. Hopefully, the successes will carry things forward and the non-successes will keep at it and find a way to contribute anyhow. Deadline dealing strikes me as a tougher crapshoot than most. Even people blessed with great wealth and great ability have to stay humble, for humility will certainly be visited up on them. If we've learned nothing else from reading Beowulf, surely we've learned this.

roger_that Oct 05 2022 03:26 PM Re: The #LOLMets BLEW the Traid Deadline!!!!

Edgy MD wrote: one of those prospects is a difference maker in a later season, and Met fan lamentations will fill the city night. I seem to remember trading R.A. Dickey to get D'Arnaud (and Syndergaard, of course), dumping him for nothing, and having him turn into an All-Star catcher, when all we needed was a half-decent catcher, and beating our ass in. Talk about lamentations!

Edgy MD Oct 05 2022 03:31 PM Re: The #LOLMets BLEW the Traid Deadline!!!!

I'm not sure what is being endorsed or rejected there, but I'm playoff prepping. Learning from these outcomes in the macro is crucial. Lamenting these outcomes in the micro is a dead end.

kcmets Oct 05 2022 03:35 PM Re: Aaron Judge!!

Edgy MD wrote: Sometimes you come up short at a position, or a season, not because you compromised, but because your investment or investments didn't pan out. And while you wanted to pivot to alternatives, you were unable to find candidates that struck you as wiser alternatives. Or you retain faith in your original investment to turn around, but it doesn't. Sometimes, despite all the resources in the world, given a finite number of roster spots, you make the wrong decisions. Or you make the right ones and they fall victim to entirely unpredictable circumstances. Or in the Mets' case, you pivot just as your original investment is ready to turn around. Maybe they should have ridden Smith and Davis out. I dunno. You can be rich (even be the richest) and be wrong — wrong for the right reasons and wrong for the wrong ones. it's far more nuanced than a guy being crazy rich and therefore failure is unacceptable. Astros owner Jim Crane is one of the handful of least wealthy MLB owners, but he got some of the most DH production this season. Hopefully, the successes will carry things forward and the non-successes will keep at it and find a way to contribute anyhow. Deadline dealing strikes me as a tougher crapshoot than most. Even people blessed with great wealth and great ability have to stay humble, for humility will certainly be visited up on them. If we've learned nothing else from reading Beowulf, surely we've learned this. Shouldn't this be in a different thread?

stevejrogers Oct 05 2022 03:49 PM Re: Aaron Judge!!

Edgy MD wrote: Sometimes you come up short at a position, or a season, not because you compromised, but because your investment or investments didn't pan out. And while you wanted to pivot to alternatives, you were unable to find candidates that struck you as wiser alternatives. Or you retain faith in your original investment to turn around, but it doesn't. Sometimes, despite all the resources in the world, given a finite number of roster spots, you make the wrong decisions. Or you make the right ones and they fall victim to entirely unpredictable circumstances. Or in the Mets' case, you pivot just as your original investment is ready to turn around. Maybe they should have ridden Smith and Davis out. I dunno. You can be rich (even be the richest) and be wrong — wrong for the right reasons and wrong for the wrong ones. it's far more nuanced than a guy being crazy rich and therefore failure is unacceptable. Astros owner Jim Crane is one of the handful of least wealthy MLB owners, but he got some of the most DH production this season. Hopefully, the successes will carry things forward and the non-successes will keep at it and find a way to contribute anyhow. Deadline dealing strikes me as a tougher crapshoot than most. Even people blessed with great wealth and great ability have to stay humble, for humility will certainly be visited up on them. If we've learned nothing else from reading Beowulf, surely we've learned this. Shouldn't this be in a different thread? Eh, he was defending his position not to be all salivating and trollish when it comes to the potential of Aaron Judge changing his New York City based employment this off-season. OE: Ah, I see now where this probably should have been on the trade deadline thread.

kcmets Oct 05 2022 03:53 PM Re: Aaron Judge!!

=stevejrogers post_id=110099 time=1665006572 user_id=57]OE: Ah, I see now where this probably should have been on the trade deadline thread.

Right, that's what I assumed and figured he just stuck it in the wrong place.

We've all done that a dozen times at least...