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RIP Bruce Sutter, 1953-2022

G-Fafif Oct 14 2022 09:55 AM

The first reliever I can remember who was credited for “shortening games,” as in if you don't lead the Cubs by the seventh inning, Bruce Sutter's coming in with his split-finger fastball and pretty much ending your chances. Hall of Famer, gone at 69.

stevejrogers Oct 14 2022 10:22 AM Re: RIP Bruce Sutter, 1953-2022

Since his retirement he always was a fixture at Cardinal legacy events at Busch. Eventually getting inshrined in their team HOF, and his #42 was retired a second time (following the MLB mandate in 1997) in his honor after he was inducted into Cooperstown. But I don't think I've seen or heard anything of him being back at Wrigley for any sort of Cub history celebrations. I wonder if there was a rift between him and the organization, that won't be mended now. But it did seem odd that he never seemed to be at Wrigley

G-Fafif Oct 14 2022 10:32 AM Re: RIP Bruce Sutter, 1953-2022

This box score… https://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/NYN/NYN198009120.shtml …contains some serious pitching talent covering a lot of years spread out over 14 innings. Their peaks didn't converge at once, but from Tidrow emerging as a beast of a middle reliever for the MFYs in the mid-'70s to Smith and Reardon still slamming doors in the '90s, along with Cy Young winners Hernandez and Scott, top-tier AL closer Caudill eventual 20-game winner Krukow and good enough to be Keithbait Allen, it really casts a glow on a late-season bottom-feeder festival that drew only enough fans to justify turning on the Shea lights. And going three innings when rosters were expanded and the Cubs were finishing last: Bruce Sutter. Also, I adored Tom Hausman.

batmagadanleadoff Oct 14 2022 10:40 AM Re: RIP Bruce Sutter, 1953-2022 Edited 3 time(s), most recently on Oct 14 2022 10:53 AM

I only think of Sutter as a Cub. Odd because Sutter was still producing elite all star seasons for the Cards and was their ace reliever on the '82 WS championship team. But this notion of Sutter as only a Cub is so powerfully ingrained in me that I sometimes have to remind myself that he even played for the Cards. My strongest Sutter memory is of him appearing on a TV game of the week pregame segment to explain how he throws his at the time novel but virtually unhittable split finger fastball.He demonstrated how he used his thumb to push the ball out from between his index and middle fingers as he was releasing the pitch. I thought he was full of shit and that it was impossible to throw a pitch like that. I figured he didnt wanna reveal his secret trick, which made perfect sense to me.

MFS62 Oct 14 2022 10:48 AM Re: RIP Bruce Sutter, 1953-2022

The starter for the Cubs that day was the only player (other than the washed up infielder we got for Nolan Ryan) whose name I refuse to say or type. This game was an example why. Even when the Mets scored off him, his team always seemed (my perception)to score enough to prevent him from taking the loss. And he always left the mound with a (my perception) smirk on his face. Anyhow, RIP Bruce Sutter Later

batmagadanleadoff Oct 14 2022 11:01 AM Re: RIP Bruce Sutter, 1953-2022

=batmagadanleadoff post_id=111255 time=1665765626 user_id=68] I only think of Sutter as a Cub. Odd because Sutter was still producing elite all star seasons for the Cards and was their ace reliever on the '82 WS championship team. But this notion of Sutter as only a Cub is so powerfully ingrained in me that I sometimes have to remind myself that he even played for the Cards. My strongest Sutter memory is of him appearing on a TV game of the week pregame segment to explain how he throws his at the time novel but virtually unhittable split finger fastball.He demonstrated how he used his thumb to push the ball out from between his index and middle fingers as he was releasing the pitch. I thought he was full of shit and that it was impossible to throw a pitch like that. I figured he didnt wanna reveal his secret trick, which made perfect sense to me.

Strongest memories might not be all they're cracked up to be. Now my mind is playing tricks on me and I'm suddenly not sure if I'm remembering Sutter misleadingly describing his secret out pitch or if it was Mike Scott doing the same thing about 10 years later that I'm remembering.

Frayed Knot Oct 14 2022 11:06 AM Re: RIP Bruce Sutter, 1953-2022

No, the thumb thing was Sutter. So that, even when the splitter became more common, his version of it, owing in part to his extraordinarily long fingers, remained unique to him.

batmagadanleadoff Oct 14 2022 11:17 AM Re: RIP Bruce Sutter, 1953-2022

Frayed Knot wrote: No, the thumb thing was Sutter. So that, even when the splitter became more common, his version of it, owing in part to his extraordinarily long fingers, remained unique to him. So Sutter actually did throw that pitch by using his thumb to pop the ball out from his grip? My suspicion that he wasnt telling the truth grew stronger over time because as that pitch gained popularity over the ensuing years, it turned out that nobody else threw the pitch the way Sutter claimed he did.

Edgy MD Oct 14 2022 11:19 AM Re: RIP Bruce Sutter, 1953-2022

He's the exception from two popular arguments. When it's rare and mostly frowned upon to ask a closer to throw more than one inning in any but the most exceptional situations, you think, "What about Sutter?" And when it's argued that a guy's arm isn't going to last if he relies too much on the splitter, you think "What about Sutter?" I do, anyhow. Although, looking at it now, he didn't have any good seasons after 31. I guess his era was the beginning of the era of closers being adrenaline junkies, pumped and intimidating beasts being let off the leash, but that was never really his act to my memory, despite his broad shoulders and big crazy beard. He went about his business with the relentless efficiency of a bullpen Greg Maddux, throwing over 100 innings a bunch of times. His third act was was with the Braves, falling off in his efficiency from year to year but still pitching a whole bunch of innings. He joins Braves staffmates Rick Camp and Rick Mahler in going to the hereafter too soon.

Edgy MD Oct 14 2022 11:20 AM Re: RIP Bruce Sutter, 1953-2022

=MFS62 post_id=111256 time=1665766126 user_id=60] The starter for the Cubs that day was the only player (other than the washed up infielder we got for Nolan Ryan) whose name I refuse to say or type.

You've typed it.

batmagadanleadoff Oct 14 2022 11:24 AM Re: RIP Bruce Sutter, 1953-2022

Edgy MD wrote: I guess his era was the beginning of the era of closers being adrenaline junkies, pumped and intimidating beasts being let off the leash, but that was never really his act to my memory, despite his broad shoulders and big crazy beard. This sounds a lot like The Mad Hungarian.

stevejrogers Oct 14 2022 11:38 AM Re: RIP Bruce Sutter, 1953-2022

=batmagadanleadoff post_id=111255 time=1665765626 user_id=68] I only think of Sutter as a Cub. Odd because Sutter was still producing elite all star seasons for the Cards and was their ace reliever on the '82 WS championship team. But this notion of Sutter as only a Cub is so powerfully ingrained in me that I sometimes have to remind myself that he even played for the Cards.

Which did make his lack of post-career Wrigley appearances even more interesting. I mean he won his CY as a Cub!



The Cubs constantly trot out Cubbie HOFers on occasions, including Andre Dawson who has an Expo logo on his cap, so the Cardinal logo stench probably wasn't the reasoning.



There were rumblings pre-pandemic of Lee Smith getting his number retired at Wrigley, maybe they'll posthumously retire Sutter's as well when that happens.

stevejrogers Oct 14 2022 11:43 AM Re: RIP Bruce Sutter, 1953-2022

Edgy MD wrote: His third act was was with the Braves, falling off in his efficiency from year to year but still pitching a whole bunch of innings. He joins Braves staffmates Rick Camp and Rick Mahler in going to the hereafter too soon. His Braves contract is a frequent example to combat #ItsBobbyBonillaDayLOLMets enthusiasts with. I believe, oddly enough, this past year was the final year of that back loaded contract.

G-Fafif Oct 14 2022 11:48 AM Re: RIP Bruce Sutter, 1953-2022

September 12, 1980's ten pitchers totaled 738 career wins (not bad if not Spahn vs. Marichal) and 1,535 saves (which if it isn't a record oughta be). That whole weekend series is a hindsight delight, featuring as it does two Met wins in the games that followed and, on the Friday night in question, the very first Mookie vs. Buckner matchup.

Edgy MD Oct 14 2022 11:51 AM Re: RIP Bruce Sutter, 1953-2022

Edgy MD wrote: I guess his era was the beginning of the era of closers being adrenaline junkies, pumped and intimidating beasts being let off the leash, but that was never really his act to my memory, despite his broad shoulders and big crazy beard. This sounds a lot like The Mad Hungarian. Hrabosky was definitely of the first generation of juiced-up showmen and muscling-up fireballers. First for me, anyhow. I'm sure there are precedents. Lee Smith replaced Sutter for the Cubs, so I guess they had good reason to let him walk in free agency. Smith better fit the mold of the hyped-up intimidator, and though the Cubs continued to ask for multiple inning outings from him, but he would transition early toward the modern one-inning guy. Sutter never really got that chance. He had maybe his best season with the Cards in 1984 and he was never particularly good again. It was kind of damned-if-you-do-damned-if-you-don't with The Hall of Fame, who was in no hurry to induct either class of reliever before coming around on Sutter inducting him. in 2006 and Smith in 2007.

MFS62 Oct 14 2022 12:03 PM Re: RIP Bruce Sutter, 1953-2022

Edgy MD wrote: Hrabosky was definitely of the first generation of juiced-up showmen and muscling-up fireballers. First for me, anyhow. I'm sure there are precedents. Smith better fit the mold of the hyped-up intimidator, When I think of fireballers who were intimidators, I remember Ryne Duren. He had thick glasses, threw hard and was wild enough to keep batters from feeling comfortable in the batters box. https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/d/durenry01.shtml I consider him the first of that breed. Later

stevejrogers Oct 14 2022 12:50 PM Re: RIP Bruce Sutter, 1953-2022

Edgy MD wrote: It was kind of damned-if-you-do-damned-if-you-don't with The Hall of Fame, who was in no hurry to induct either class of reliever before coming around on Sutter, inducting him in 2006 and Smith in 2007. One of my favorite "dumb sports radio host opinion" of all-time was Warner Wolf on his weekend morning show on ESPN Radio saying he'd want a Joba Chamberlain to make his debut in the majors to be a starter right away. Reasoning was that at that point NO relievers in the Hall, including future HOFers like Mariano Rivera, were pure relievers. Yes. The point was that it was "harder to make the Hall of Fame if you aren't a starter right away." And no, I'd imagine Wolf did not have a staffer sort through the stats of every HOF pitcher to make sure they started their MLB debut. But the point is that a year later the opinion was made moot after Sutter, who never started a game, was finally elected!

Frayed Knot Oct 14 2022 03:33 PM Re: RIP Bruce Sutter, 1953-2022

So Sutter actually did throw that pitch by using his thumb to pop the ball out from his grip? Not sure if "pop it out" is the most accurate description but the thumb was involved somehow, probably adding some crazy-ass spin to the mix, and his empty post-pitch hand would always wind up with the thumb protruding between the index and middle digits.

Frayed Knot Oct 14 2022 03:47 PM Re: RIP Bruce Sutter, 1953-2022

Edgy MD wrote: Although, looking at it now, he didn't have any good seasons after 31. His third act was was with the Braves, falling off in his efficiency from year to year but still pitching a whole bunch of innings. His rather short-ish prime tended to keep me on the 'No' side of the HoF fence for him. Those in favor tended to credit him for inventing a whole new pitch as the deciding factor in his favor but, to me, it was more just a case of a new variation of an already existing pitch. btw, Sutter b. Lancaster, PA [Donegal HS, Mount Joy, PA] and was drafted by the Washington Senators

batmagadanleadoff Oct 14 2022 04:17 PM Re: RIP Bruce Sutter, 1953-2022

Frayed Knot wrote: No, the thumb thing was Sutter. So that, even when the splitter became more common, his version of it, owing in part to his extraordinarily long fingers, remained unique to him. Yeah. I just remembered that it had to be Sutter who gave that demonstration and not Scott. Scott was extremely secretive about the way he threw his pitch and never would have gone on national TV to explain how to throw that pitch -- an attitude that made total sense to me. If I was the only major leaguer that knew how to throw a new out pitch to devastating effect, why on Earth would I be teaching some other player how to throw the same pitch so long as I was still an active player? Makes about as much sense as Coca-Cola publicizing their formula for Coca-Cola.

The Hot Corner Oct 14 2022 04:40 PM Re: RIP Bruce Sutter, 1953-2022

Many people, Keith Hernandez included, felt that Mike Scott was scuffing and doctoring balls, rather than actually throwing a splitter.

MFS62 Oct 14 2022 04:50 PM Re: RIP Bruce Sutter, 1953-2022

The Hot Corner wrote: Many people, Keith Hernandez included, felt that Mike Scott was scuffing and doctoring balls, rather than actually throwing a splitter. I was one of those many people. I thought splitter should have been spelled without the 'l". Later

kcmets Oct 16 2022 07:48 AM Re: RIP Bruce Sutter, 1953-2022

Watching this thread I just have to say you all have some remarkable baseball memory and recollection abilities. I see the name Sutter, and think hockey. RIP Bruce, nice beard...