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The New deGrom Deserves His Own Thread Again Thread

kcmets Oct 16 2022 02:48 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Oct 16 2022 04:50 PM

Mets general manager Billy Eppler said he talked to Jacob deGrom one-on-one on Sunday night. “He knows how we feel," explained Eppler. "I know how he feels. It was a good conversation. … Things are positive.” The Mets' ace is widely-expected to exercise the opt-out in his contract (rather than make $30.5M in 2023) and test the open market this offseason. DeGrom is capable of being the best pitcher in the world, but it's a complicated situation with his injury history and the way he scuffled down the stretch. The 34-year-old completed seven innings just twice in his 11 starts this season. He's going to make big money no matter what (perhaps looking at Max Scherzer's record $43.3M AAV on a short-term deal), but it will be fascinating to see how this plays out. There's certainly some urgency from the Mets' perspective with Scherzer as the only sure thing in the rotation at the moment, but it's just a matter of how they want to spend. SOURCE: Deesha Thosar on Twitter Oct 14, 2022, 11:42 AM ET My hope is Jake soon says something like this, "after thinking about things a lot and how the season ended I've decided not to opt out of my contract because I feel there's some unfinished business to do in 2023 and I'm all in. Hopefully the team will bring back a lot of the free agents too, we're a good group and I'm kahnfident we can win it all in 2023." Edited some punctuation

The Hot Corner Oct 16 2022 04:36 PM Re: The New deGrom Deserves His Own Thread Again Thread

I too dream that Jake would decide no to opt out, but I'm afraid that's only a dream. Just like virtually every other player that hits the open market, money talks. I expect he is looking for a huge increase in his annual salary and he will almost assuredly sign with the highest bidder. If that happens to be the Mets, I'm sure he will be happy, but I don't expect him to give them a discount to stay with the organization.

Fman99 Oct 16 2022 05:28 PM Re: The New deGrom Deserves His Own Thread Again Thread

I think even if he comes back to Flushing in 2023 it'd be on a new deal. I also think some other team backs up the truck and offers him a Scherzer-style contract, only for 4-5 years instead of 3, and that he chases the $ like they all do

metsmarathon Oct 16 2022 05:34 PM Re: The New deGrom Deserves His Own Thread Again Thread

if he doesn't opt out, it will be because he's accepted an extension from the mets.

Benjamin Grimm Oct 16 2022 05:44 PM Re: The New deGrom Deserves His Own Thread Again Thread

I really think he's gone, and that letting him go is the wise move. It will be an interesting off-season.

batmagadanleadoff Oct 16 2022 08:54 PM Re: The New deGrom Deserves His Own Thread Again Thread

Benjamin Grimm wrote: I really think he's gone .... Me too. I think he already knows which team he's going to and that his representatives already had secret talks with the prospective new team to feel each other out and establish important parameters. It's the way deGrom is so adamant about not wanting to talk about his upcoming contract. Many players take that position once the season starts, but there's something different about the way deGrom's handling this. It's as if he knows he's leaving and wants to avoid the topic as much as possible because it's a very difficult decision for him to make and a large part of him wants to remain a Met. This comment that Steve Cohen made about a month and a half ago convinced me and was my last straw: “We love Jacob, and I think he's the best pitcher in baseball,” Cohen told The Post on Saturday before the Mets hosted the Rockies at Citi Field. “We'll do whatever we can to make sure he stays. But it's his decision, not ours.” https://nypost.com/2022/08/27/steve-cohen-adamant-mets-will-do-whatever-we-can-to-keep-jacob-degrom/ It seemed to me that Cohen was setting up the fanbase for the inevitable news that will disappoint many, when deGrom announces that he's signing elsewhere -- and also, pre-emptively deflecting blame for when deGrom does leave. I get the sense that deGrom and the Mets already had meaningful "feel each other out" talks that indicated that deGrom is likely to leave. If the Wilpons still owned the Mets, this would be easy to figure out. Well, first of all, the Wilpon Mets couldn't afford deGrom at the current market rate, so there's that and that's a big that. But beyond that, if the Wilpon Mets were pretty sure that deGrom was leaving, they'd be shitcanning deGrom through press leaks every other week. Anyways, what do I know? I don't know anything youse don't already know. I'm just speculating. This is my take.

Gwreck Oct 16 2022 09:58 PM Re: The New deGrom Deserves His Own Thread Again Thread

The Hot Corner wrote: Just like virtually every other player that hits the open market, money talks. I expect he is looking for a huge increase in his annual salary and he will almost assuredly sign with the highest bidder. If that happens to be the Mets, I'm sure he will be happy, but I don't expect him to give them a discount to stay with the organization. Agree. I fully expect the Mets to equal (or top) the best offer deGrom gets. And if he wants to go elsewhere, well, that'll be his choice. But I see no circumstance in which the Mets are outbid.

duan Oct 17 2022 08:22 AM Re: The New deGrom Deserves His Own Thread Again Thread

the mets should be prepared to be outbid depending on what the other bids are! what do I think sounds reasonable... I dunno 4*40 ? Seems like a hell of a lot for a guy who you have to worry about keeping healthy.

Benjamin Grimm Oct 17 2022 08:40 AM Re: The New deGrom Deserves His Own Thread Again Thread

I think they should forget about deGrom (unless his price comes down) and look in another direction.

Edgy MD Oct 17 2022 09:06 AM Re: The New deGrom Deserves His Own Thread Again Thread

Why forget about him before the free agency period has started and before his price has been set? They have exclusive negotiating rights with him right now. To forget about him now is throw away an asset nobody else has.

Benjamin Grimm Oct 17 2022 09:26 AM Re: The New deGrom Deserves His Own Thread Again Thread

Note the parenthetical (unless his price comes down). If he's looking for $40 million plus, they should let him leave. If he's inclined to be more reasonable, then yes, they should talk to him.

Edgy MD Oct 17 2022 10:20 AM Re: The New deGrom Deserves His Own Thread Again Thread

Well, his price won't come down if they forget about him. Also, we don't actually know what his price is. We'll see. I see the value of treating oneself as the party that is hard to get, but we're working from assumptions here, are we not?

Benjamin Grimm Oct 17 2022 10:31 AM Re: The New deGrom Deserves His Own Thread Again Thread

Oh, definitely. My point is if he wants Scherzer money, you have to let him go. I doubt that he'd opt out unless he's looking for a significant upgrade, and I don't think he should get one. I suspect that there will be the "one dumb owner" who wants to make a big splash (remember that term from the Omar days?) and bring in a two-time Cy Young winner. And if that happens, the team that gets deGrom will probably get a lot of headlines but not many wins.

Gwreck Oct 17 2022 10:49 AM Re: The New deGrom Deserves His Own Thread Again Thread

Benjamin Grimm wrote: My point is if he wants Scherzer money, you have to let him go. I doubt that he'd opt out unless he's looking for a significant upgrade, and I don't think he should get one. Why don't you think he should get an upgrade in salary? (And do you mean in general, or from the Mets specifically?)

Benjamin Grimm Oct 17 2022 11:08 AM Re: The New deGrom Deserves His Own Thread Again Thread

Because I think his best days are behind him.

Frayed Knot Oct 17 2022 11:25 AM Re: The New deGrom Deserves His Own Thread Again Thread

He's opting out for more money of course. But mainly it's for the extended time. This may be his last contract so he'd like to get as many total dollars as possible, iow, years at least as important as AAV. Benjamin Grimm wrote: Because I think his best days are behind him. I'm not so sure about that. He's younger and with fewer miles on him than Scherzer, not to mention cleaner mechanics. I mean, sure, we likely won't see the likes of 2018-19 again but we may be collectively guilty here of recency bias; that his last three starts weren't vintage so this is what he now is. But even his great years had similar hiccups (remember him getting battered by the Twins?) which turned out to Not be the end of the world.

Benjamin Grimm Oct 17 2022 11:52 AM Re: The New deGrom Deserves His Own Thread Again Thread

Well, Scherzer's best days are behind him too. Sure, deGrom likely has some more outstanding stretches ahead of him. But if you commit to four or five years, I think the great starts will be outnumbered by the mediocre and, eventually, the bad. My guess is that whoever signs deGrom will get about as much out of him as the Mets got from Pedro Martinez, but will be paying for a lot more.

Edgy MD Oct 17 2022 11:53 AM Re: The New deGrom Deserves His Own Thread Again Thread

My best days are behind me, but there's still a meaningful value to what I have left. Tylor Megill has virtually a whole career ahead of him, including what are likely to be his best days. I think most teams would prefer what Jacob deGrom has left to what Megill has left.

Benjamin Grimm Oct 17 2022 11:58 AM Re: The New deGrom Deserves His Own Thread Again Thread

Yes, but is it worth $40 million per year? I wouldn't bet on it.

Centerfield Oct 17 2022 12:06 PM Re: The New deGrom Deserves His Own Thread Again Thread

Frayed Knot wrote: He's opting out for more money of course. But mainly it's for the extended time. This may be his last contract so he'd like to get as many total dollars as possible, iow, years at least as important as AAV. Benjamin Grimm wrote: Because I think his best days are behind him. I'm not so sure about that. He's younger and with fewer miles on him than Scherzer, not to mention cleaner mechanics. I mean, sure, we likely won't see the likes of 2018-19 again but we may be collectively guilty here of recency bias; that his last three starts weren't vintage so this is what he now is. But even his great years had similar hiccups (remember him getting battered by the Twins?) which turned out to Not be the end of the world. He was also coming off an injury, so you can understand why he might have run out of steam earlier. I guess that's a case both for and against deGrom. If I had to make a guess, I guess I'd lean more toward him leaving than coming back, but neither would surprise me. He might be playing coy with Cohen and the media intentionally to milk every last dollar from him. He's certainly smart enough to do that.

Edgy MD Oct 17 2022 12:12 PM Re: The New deGrom Deserves His Own Thread Again Thread

Benjamin Grimm wrote: Yes, but is it worth $40 million per year? I wouldn't bet on it. We don't actually know what the numbers are yet.

Ceetar Oct 17 2022 12:30 PM Re: The New deGrom Deserves His Own Thread Again Thread

Benjamin Grimm wrote: Yes, but is it worth $40 million per year? I wouldn't bet on it. 150%, absolutely zero doubt about it. A team with deGrom on it is better than a team without deGrom on. I don't care if he pitches 10 innings. Bit whoop, sign the 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th best backup guys too. If they balk at maybe being the 6th guy in a rotation, tell every one they're third behind deGrom and Scherzer, don't worry about it. And then pay them like a third starter. Anything else means there's a budget and then we've got big problems with this offseason.

metsmarathon Oct 17 2022 01:02 PM Re: The New deGrom Deserves His Own Thread Again Thread

we should crowdsource an expected degrom deal. see how it compares to what he actually eventually gets. me, i think he'll just opt out and take the QO.

A Boy Named Seo Oct 17 2022 01:12 PM Re: The New deGrom Deserves His Own Thread Again Thread

we should crowdsource an expected degrom deal. see how it compares to what he actually eventually gets. me, i think he'll just opt out and take the QO. I think *gulp* 2 years/$90M gets it done. And it'll be the Mets doing the doing. deGrom's value in fWAR, for what it's worth: 2014 $27.0 2015 $38.9 2016 $23.4 2017 $33.2 2018 $72.3 2019 $55.5 2020 $20.8 2021 $38.9 2022 $17.5

Benjamin Grimm Oct 17 2022 01:21 PM Re: The New deGrom Deserves His Own Thread Again Thread

I'll guess four years, $150 million from the Texas Rangers.

A Boy Named Seo Oct 17 2022 01:27 PM Re: The New deGrom Deserves His Own Thread Again Thread

Benjamin Grimm wrote: I'll guess four years, $150 million from the Texas Rangers. I like that guess. It would be very Texas Rangery, too. Edit: I think JdG wants to get in the neighborhood or exceed Max's AAV of $43M, no?

Benjamin Grimm Oct 17 2022 01:32 PM Re: The New deGrom Deserves His Own Thread Again Thread

That's what the rumors say, but that's just speculation. My prediction assumes that nobody will go that high for him.

Gwreck Oct 17 2022 02:32 PM Re: The New deGrom Deserves His Own Thread Again Thread

Sure, there's some residual bad taste after the Atlanta game. And deGrom was only “good” not “utterly dominant” against San Diego. But (1) is there another pitcher in the majors you'd rather have starting a playoff game? And (1a) is there any other free agent starting pitcher who could plausibly be an answer to #1? I'd open with a bid of…$135M for 3 years with an opt-out after 2.

Ceetar Oct 17 2022 02:40 PM Re: The New deGrom Deserves His Own Thread Again Thread

=Gwreck post_id=111464 time=1666038777 user_id=56] I'd open with a bid of…$135M for 3 years with an opt-out after 2.

Steve Cohen's net worth has increased more than 10x that just this year. I'm not sure he can afford it.

Benjamin Grimm Oct 17 2022 03:08 PM Re: The New deGrom Deserves His Own Thread Again Thread

We know he can afford it, but he may not be willing to pay it. Cohen has definitely said that there's a limit to what he'll spend.

Lefty Specialist Oct 17 2022 03:48 PM Re: The New deGrom Deserves His Own Thread Again Thread

He'll be looking for at least 4 years and in excess of $40 mil a year. At that price and length, I let him walk. Uncle Steve has unlimited money, but that doesn't mean he'll SPEND unlimited money. I have a feeling that deGrom will be in for a steep decline. We still don't really know what exactly happened to him last year, and he seems to always be one pitch away from another mysterious IL stint. He was not right his last few starts this year, just from the eye test, not inside medical knowledge. I think any team that signs him long-term (including the Mets) will regret it. And he won't do a short-term deal because he'll just have to do this all over again. He wants his last big payday now, and somebody will give it to him.

Gwreck Oct 17 2022 03:51 PM Re: The New deGrom Deserves His Own Thread Again Thread

=Ceetar post_id=111465 time=1666039207 user_id=102]Steve Cohen's net worth has increased more than 10x that just this year. I'm not sure he can afford it.

Obviously Steve can afford anything he wants. We all know this. The only question is to what extent he would treat the Mets as a purely luxury item versus a profit center.



Surely there is a point at which payroll could exceed revenue and the team would operate at a loss. (That number may well be in excess of the current payroll, but it still exists out there somewhere.)

Johnny Lunchbucket Oct 18 2022 05:59 AM Re: The New deGrom Deserves His Own Thread Again Thread

I can't think on this without regretting letting Wheeler walk. He was healthy. I'm not certain that degrom can be deGrom and stay healthy. He probably signs with the Braves.

smg58 Oct 18 2022 06:57 AM Re: The New deGrom Deserves His Own Thread Again Thread

Wheeler has had his three best seasons since walking. He wasn't close to this good as a Met, which makes me wonder if there was a problem with how we handled him. As for deGrom, I'm willing to go 3 and $105 on him. If he can do better, let him do better.

Ceetar Oct 18 2022 07:27 AM Re: The New deGrom Deserves His Own Thread Again Thread

=smg58 post_id=111489 time=1666097846 user_id=62] Wheeler has had his three best seasons since walking. He wasn't close to this good as a Met, which makes me wonder if there was a problem with how we handled him.

I think it was just flat-out undervaluing pitchers, and not wanting to tie up that much money in the solely the rotation (That was the year deGrom was supposed to jump from 9m to 25) He actually had higher fWARs in 2018 and 2019 than 2022, though barely and with a few more innings. He was almost this good though. But even if he was _only_ as good as he was 2018-2019, it's still a steal financially.



But the same thing happened last offseason, where they let Stroman and Syndergaard slip away. They did make up for it, but if Trevor Williams pitches more like Michael Wacha or Rick Porcello did in 2020, or Peterson and Megill pitch more like Robert Gsellman did, 2022's pitching depth looks a lot more like 2020s.







You just can't let the top flight talent go away. That's not a great way to become a perennial contender, especially since the Mets haven't showed that they have the dev staff to really find these diamonds in the rough, or to get more out of a player than their talent suggested. Even if you grain of salt the end of Megill's 2022 with the injuries/bullpen stuff not being a good representation, Do you think the Mets are going to get the 1.93 ERA he put up in April? The Braves seem pretty confident in their pitching rookies. Spencer Strider was drafted in 2020, threw 1 minor league season with the Braves, mostly in AA to a tune of an ERA of 4.86, then started him in the majors this year and believe enough in that one year (a rookie of the year perhaps!) to trick him into a long term contract, meaning they don't mind paying him extra the next few years because they think he'll be ridiculously underpaid over the next 6, and be worth it.

The Hot Corner Oct 19 2022 05:27 PM Re: The New deGrom Deserves His Own Thread Again Thread

With all the holes that the Mets will need to address this offseason, I believe it is foolish to commit too heavily to any one individual such that the team can not adequately afford to fill the remaining holes. It's nice to believe there is no limitation on what the Mets can afford to spend in order to build the team for 2023 and beyond. However, I do not think it is realistic to believe that funds are limitless. Yes, Steve Cohen is enormously wealthy, but he, as do virtually all businesses and individuals have budgets. To think the funds available to the Mets are virtually limitless is folly. I definitely would keep all lines of communication open with DeGrom, but if retaining him for 3-4 years costs so much that the Mets are unable to address Nimmo, Diaz, multiple openings in the rotation, an upgrade at catcher, and some bullpen help, then it is better to let him walk in my view.

Ceetar Oct 20 2022 07:03 AM Re: The New deGrom Deserves His Own Thread Again Thread

The problem is you can't replace deGrom, he's too good. Any budgeting means giving innings to lesser guys. That's poor budgeting. Overpay at the top, and budget in the middle.

Marshmallowmilkshake Oct 20 2022 08:27 AM Re: The New deGrom Deserves His Own Thread Again Thread Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Oct 20 2022 10:02 AM

The Hot Corner wrote: With all the holes that the Mets will need to address this offseason, I believe it is foolish to commit too heavily to any one individual such that the team can not adequately afford to fill the remaining holes. It's nice to believe there is no limitation on what the Mets can afford to spend in order to build the team for 2023 and beyond. However, I do not think it is realistic to believe that funds are limitless. Yes, Steve Cohen is enormously wealthy, but he, as do virtually all businesses and individuals have budgets. To think the funds available to the Mets are virtually limitless is folly. I definitely would keep all lines of communication open with DeGrom, but if retaining him for 3-4 years costs so much that the Mets are unable to address Nimmo, Diaz, multiple openings in the rotation, an upgrade at catcher, and some bullpen help, then it is better to let him walk in my view. This is where I'm kind of at, too. You can buy a lot of everyday pieces, or one huge everyday piece, for $45 million. If I had more confidence that he could pitch a whole season, I might think differently. I do wonder the size of the pool of potential suitors. How many teams would be able to take a $45 million gamble? I know all it takes is one to lose him. I don't think the Mets let Stroman "slip away." I think they made a decision to not resign him based on a number of factors, on and off the field.

Ceetar Oct 20 2022 09:19 AM Re: The New deGrom Deserves His Own Thread Again Thread

so racism them? that's the only "off the field" issue with Stroman. wouldn't surprise me, given that they're already pretty misogynistic, why not add racism?

Edgy MD Oct 20 2022 10:39 AM Re: The New deGrom Deserves His Own Thread Again Thread

Because it's the sort of thing I'd rather have meaningful amount of evidence for. I think Occam's Razor would suggest the Mets simply didn't see him as worth what it would cost to sign him. Billy Eppler had only been on the job for two weeks at the time, so it was a tough time to make big commitments. Also, they were working on bigger. If you're going to make a mistake, letting someone walk in free agency is almost always the mistake to make, because you get a second chance to do right with the money you didn't spend. Baseball-reference credits Marcus Stroman with 2.5 WAR, and fangraphs says 2.0. The best of those two figures suggests he cost $10,000,000 per WAR. I don't think his case is particularly instructive in confronting the decisions the team will have with regard to Jacob deGrom.

Ceetar Oct 20 2022 11:07 AM Re: The New deGrom Deserves His Own Thread Again Thread

it's extremely instructive, because if the Mets had another above average starting pitcher under contract, it would lessen there need this offseason. It was a foreseeable situation, and their decisions last year play in. Eppler wasn't here, but Sandy and Steve and the rest of the front office mostly was. And let's not forget the reason Eppler only just got here.

Edgy MD Oct 20 2022 12:44 PM Re: The New deGrom Deserves His Own Thread Again Thread

Extremely instructive. Understood.

Edgy MD Oct 20 2022 01:22 PM Re: The New deGrom Deserves His Own Thread Again Thread

I don't think you use the word "instructive" in the sense that I do. As for "if the Mets had another above average starting pitcher under contract, it would lessen there need this offseason," that's true, but it's true every offseason, with every team. Still, there's a limit to the number of MLB starting pitchers a team can stockpile.

Ceetar Oct 20 2022 01:34 PM Re: The New deGrom Deserves His Own Thread Again Thread

it's differently true every offseason, for every team. The Mets knew, in part by future decisions, that they were going to have a bunch of important SP free agents this offseason. There's plenty of value in trying to lock up one through this year (could've been deGrom! I was suggesting they offer Thor 2/$30+ just to sorta bridge that gap). And even without that, the decisions that make in one offseason for starting pitching.

Edgy MD Oct 20 2022 01:57 PM Re: The New deGrom Deserves His Own Thread Again Thread

=Ceetar post_id=111649 time=1666294470 user_id=102]it's differently true every offseason, for every team.

Of course it is. And in being true of every team to a different level, it's true of every team, full-stop. So I'm not sure what you are asserting in stating that it's true of the Mets, who, despite the absence of Marcus Stroman, had the second-best starting pitcher ERA in the league, finished the season with a solid rotation of eight starting pitchers, and entered the post-season utterly spoiled for choice in that department.



I hate to see any player go to another team but I don't know why the absence of Marcus Stroman particularly incriminates anybody.

Ceetar Oct 20 2022 02:38 PM Re: The New deGrom Deserves His Own Thread Again Thread

I mean, i described how. If you don't want to accept that data, that's fine. But it's sitting right there just waiting to be tabulated.

whippoorwill Oct 20 2022 02:40 PM Re: The New deGrom Deserves His Own Thread Again Thread

The Hot Corner wrote: With all the holes that the Mets will need to address this offseason, I believe it is foolish to commit too heavily to any one individual such that the team can not adequately afford to fill the remaining holes. It's nice to believe there is no limitation on what the Mets can afford to spend in order to build the team for 2023 and beyond. However, I do not think it is realistic to believe that funds are limitless. Yes, Steve Cohen is enormously wealthy, but he, as do virtually all businesses and individuals have budgets. To think the funds available to the Mets are virtually limitless is folly. I definitely would keep all lines of communication open with DeGrom, but if retaining him for 3-4 years costs so much that the Mets are unable to address Nimmo, Diaz, multiple openings in the rotation, an upgrade at catcher, and some bullpen help, then it is better to let him walk in my view. Bravo!

Edgy MD Oct 20 2022 02:44 PM Re: The New deGrom Deserves His Own Thread Again Thread

=Ceetar post_id=111661 time=1666298317 user_id=102] I mean, i described how.

You describe how what?


=Ceetar post_id=111661 time=1666298317 user_id=102]If you don't want to accept that data, that's fine. But it's sitting right there just waiting to be tabulated.

To what data do you refer?

metsmarathon Oct 21 2022 05:38 AM Re: The New deGrom Deserves His Own Thread Again Thread

stroman pitched well this season, and very well at the end. if you compare ERA, FIP, and some other fancy stats with lots of letters, he did about the same as bassitt. by some measures better, others, worse. of course, he also pitched 50 fewer innings than c-bass, and was very bad and hurt (and also covid) in the first half of the season, when we would have needed him the most. with him on the roster, we would not have traded for bassitt, who really helped stabilize our rotation for most of the season. and we would not have had the $17M difference in their salaries to allocate elsewhere. i'm skeptical that bassitt will get paid appreciably more than $25M next year, as well. as much as i liked stroman, the mets were a better team this past season without him. now, you might be tempted to say, oh, but what about the postseason? well, while bassitt disappointed this year, and carries a career 4.20 era in 15 post season innings, stro has a 4.40 in 30 innings. and while the postseason is a small sample crapshoot designed to cause people to make faulty inferences, it's not like we would have had the legend of andy pettitte starting meaningful october baseball games for us. so if you want to say, "oh, marcus stroman is proof positive that we're screwed this offseason" i think you cannot reach that conclusion reliably until after the offseason. there are plenty of baseball decisions waiting to be made. but right now, you're sitting on a position of "i wish we paid a guy $25M this year for $16M of value this year, and are on the hook to pay him up to $48M the next two years, instead of having paid $8M for a guy who just produced $21M of value." which seems like an odd hill to die on, but... you do you.

kcmets Oct 27 2022 06:00 AM Re: The New deGrom Deserves His Own Thread Again Thread

So does deGrom have to wait until a certain time to 'officially' announce his plans or are they in essence already announced?

Lefty Specialist Oct 27 2022 06:08 AM Re: The New deGrom Deserves His Own Thread Again Thread

=kcmets post_id=112006 time=1666872011 user_id=53] So does deGrom have to wait until a certain time to 'officially' announce his plans or are they in essence already announced?

He has 5 days after the end of the World Series to announce his intentions.

batmagadanleadoff Oct 27 2022 02:41 PM Re: The New deGrom Deserves His Own Thread Again Thread Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Oct 27 2022 02:49 PM

Lefty Specialist wrote: So does deGrom have to wait until a certain time to 'officially' announce his plans or are they in essence already announced? He has 5 days after the end of the World Series to announce his intentions. I don't think deGrom has to announce anything. Free agency "happens" automatically, no matter what the player says. Or doesn't say. All eligible players automatically become free agents on a certain date, which I think is the day after the WS ends, but it could be five days after the WS ends. Then there is a five day period where the player's last team has exclusive negotiating rights -- in deGrom's case, that would obviously be the Mets. If deGrom is still unsigned after that five day period, he becomes an unrestricted free agent and he may negotiate with any other team, not just the Mets. This would be so even if he got a tattoo on his forehead stating that he's not a free agent. That's how I think it works, more or less.

Edgy MD Oct 27 2022 02:46 PM Re: The New deGrom Deserves His Own Thread Again Thread

Free agency at the end of a contract may seem to happen automatically (though an official filing is still required). Exercising an out-clause option in the middle of a contract, though, does not happen automatically.

kcmets Oct 27 2022 02:48 PM Re: The New deGrom Deserves His Own Thread Again Thread

I was referring to the option, Edgy beat me by this much...

batmagadanleadoff Oct 27 2022 02:50 PM Re: The New deGrom Deserves His Own Thread Again Thread

Edgy MD wrote: Free agency at the end of a contract may seem to happen automatically (though an official filing is still required). Exercising an out-clause option in the middle of a contract, though, does not happen automatically. True.

batmagadanleadoff Oct 27 2022 02:52 PM Re: The New deGrom Deserves His Own Thread Again Thread

=kcmets post_id=112043 time=1666903680 user_id=53] I was referring to the option, Edgy beat me by this much...

Also, I edited my post, not to change its meaning, but to simply reword a sentence. It was a form edit, not a substance edit. You should announce this to the world, maybe take out an ad in the NYT. Oooooooh! I edited my post. Ooooooooooooooooooh!

kcmets Oct 27 2022 06:01 PM Re: The New deGrom Deserves His Own Thread Again Thread

Jacob deGrom officially opts out of Mets contract to become free agent Taijuan Walker has also opted out.

Lefty Specialist Nov 07 2022 10:41 AM Re: The New deGrom Deserves His Own Thread Again Thread

Benjamin Grimm wrote: The opt-out is official: Jacob deGrom officially opts out of Mets contract to become free agent Taijuan Walker has also opted out. Kick the tires on deGrom to see what he wants. I expect it'll be outrageous. Then move on. I'd like to keep Walker if possible. What I fear is that a lot of FA's may ask more from the Mets than other teams, just because of Uncle Steve's money.

metsmarathon Nov 07 2022 11:48 AM Re: The New deGrom Deserves His Own Thread Again Thread

fangraphs has degrom as the 4th best free agent available this offseason. Their expert predicts 3x47, though hte crowdsourcing estimates about 3x40 or so. that's steep but... man... degrom is so good [asterisk] [asterisk] when healthy

Edgy MD Nov 07 2022 11:58 AM Re: The New deGrom Deserves His Own Thread Again Thread

Guys in deGrom's position don't make offers. They field them. You see what he wants by seeing if he likes what you're pitching.

kcmets Nov 07 2022 12:32 PM Re: The New deGrom Deserves His Own Thread Again Thread

NBC Rotoworld wrote: Jacob deGrom exercised the opt-out clause in his contract with the Mets and has become a free agent. As expected, deGrom has opted to forego the final year and $30.5 million remaining on his existing contract with the Mets and will test the open market this offseason in search of a massive multi-year contract. The 34-year-old fantasy ace was completely dominant this past season, when healthy, finishing with a stellar 3.08 ERA, 0.75 WHIP and 102/8 K/BB ratio over 64 1/3 innings (11 starts). It's possible that he winds up returning to New York given the Mets' considerable financial resources and owner Steven Cohen's willingness to spend on his roster. SOURCE: MLBPA Communications on Twitter Nov 7, 2022, 10:17 AM ET

Benjamin Grimm Nov 07 2022 12:38 PM Re: The New deGrom Deserves His Own Thread Again Thread

I never exactly thought of him as a "fantasy ace". I thought he was a real person.

batmagadanleadoff Nov 07 2022 01:03 PM Re: The New deGrom Deserves His Own Thread Again Thread

Benjamin Grimm wrote: I never exactly thought of him as a "fantasy ace". I thought he was a real person. Maybe that phrase, as used to describe deGrom, comes from this SI cover? [FIMG=444]https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/js8AAOSw9hlcw4Ku/s-l1600.jpg[/FIMG]

metsmarathon Nov 07 2022 01:12 PM Re: The New deGrom Deserves His Own Thread Again Thread

i think it's just because rotoworld sees baseball through the lens of fantasy baseball, not in terms of actual real teams and real players.

batmagadanleadoff Nov 07 2022 01:20 PM Re: The New deGrom Deserves His Own Thread Again Thread

Lefty Specialist wrote: Kick the tires on deGrom to see what he wants. I expect it'll be outrageous. Then move on. As I've aged, I've gotten pretty good, (I think) at separating my emotions from the cold hard facts when thinking about how the Mets should approach their free agents and expiring contracts. So for example, I was dead set against the Mets extending David Wright in 2012 even though Wright had already, by then, established himself as one of the greatest Mets ever. The Mets were in such bad shape then, that Wright couldn't have helped those Mets even if he turned in an MVP season in '13. And Alderson was picking up gems like Wheeler and Syndergaard, that I figured he'd get a haul for Wright. But I'm having trouble doing this with deGrom. He's one of my favorite all-time Mets, like top two -- or three at worst, and the only active Met on that list. In 2021, he was pitching better than any pitcher that ever played the game. Same for last season other than his last two starts. Cohen has the money and these Mets are expected to contend so this is like the exact opposite of the Wright situation of ten years ago with an awful team run by owners with limited finances and resources. I'm rooting for the Mets to re-sign deGrom. Lefty Specialist wrote: What I fear is that a lot of FA's may ask more from the Mets than other teams, just because of Uncle Steve's money. I've been thinking the same exact thing, and since last year's off-season. Wonder how Cohen will deal with this if it's true? Even if the money's not an issue for Cohen, nobody likes to be taken advantage of that way, I would imagine.

batmagadanleadoff Nov 07 2022 01:21 PM Re: The New deGrom Deserves His Own Thread Again Thread

i think it's just because rotoworld sees baseball through the lens of fantasy baseball, not in terms of actual real teams and real players. Yeah. That's it. I didn't catch the "rotoworld" tag.

kcmets Nov 07 2022 01:33 PM Re: The New deGrom Deserves His Own Thread Again Thread

I dunno, and we'll see, but unless Jacob really wants to flee Flushing I can't imagine the Mets not giving him another million per year than any other offer or tacking on an additional year even knowing he may be toast by whenever. If he's hell bent for Arlington, I'm fine with that too and we'll move on...

batmagadanleadoff Nov 10 2022 12:00 PM Re: The New deGrom Deserves His Own Thread Again Thread

So today's the first day of free agency where free agents may officially negotiate with any other team. And here's a really crazy idea: maybe Cohen signs Aaron Judge by making him an offer he can't refuse and nobody else can top, in part, to make the Mets even more attractive for deGrom.

Edgy MD Nov 10 2022 12:22 PM Re: The New deGrom Deserves His Own Thread Again Thread

Seeing as he's not shy about having Hall of Fame ambitions, I suspect that a chance to accumulate some victories on his record matters at least a little to the guy. And some things about his tenure with the Mets have conspired to deny him from doing that as successfully as he might. How that factors in is all speculation, but sure, an unimpeachable slugger added to the lineup posthaste is as good a way as any to start negotiations in good faith.

Benjamin Grimm Nov 10 2022 01:25 PM Re: The New deGrom Deserves His Own Thread Again Thread

He would be only the third Hall-of-Famer to come out of the Mets farm system.

Marshmallowmilkshake Nov 10 2022 01:45 PM Re: The New deGrom Deserves His Own Thread Again Thread

[url]https://www.sny.tv/articles/jacob-degrom-free-agency-buzz Jacob deGrom has let the Rangers know he is interested in them (as well as presumably the Mets and perhaps others), but Carlos Rodon may be a better fit for Texas ultimately. The Rangers likely are still a year or two away from contending, and Rodon at 30 may work better than deGrom at 34. Rodon will have a bigger market — since deGrom is expected to seek $40 million plus, which will limit his field. Texas is expected to pursue all the best starters, and will likely sign multiple starters even after acquiring Jake Odorizzi in trade. Rangers baseball president Chris Young suggested they are considering all viable starters, including the top guys. The Rangers showed they are a serious player by spending $500 million on a double-play combination last winter. If the money is equal, I can't figure out why the Rangers would be appealing to de Grom. Dallas isn't that much closer to Florida, you have to figure Cohen is going to surround him with better players and have better chances to get a ring. The Braves, I would understand. But Texas?

batmagadanleadoff Nov 10 2022 03:16 PM Re: The New deGrom Deserves His Own Thread Again Thread

deGrom openly expressing interest in the Rangers before they even make him an offer doesnt bode well for the Mets chances of re-signing him. Also, a few months ago, I read somewhere that deGrom really likes the Arlington/Dallas area and prefers the Texas style of life to New York's. Plus, with his money, he couldn't give a flying fuck that Texas is stingier than New York with social benefits. So Texas isnt solely about being geographically farther from Florida than Georgia.

kcmets Nov 10 2022 03:23 PM Re: The New deGrom Deserves His Own Thread Again Thread

=kcmets post_id=112555 time=1667853233 user_id=53]If he's hell bent for Arlington, I'm fine with that too and we'll move on...

Edgy MD Nov 10 2022 03:32 PM Re: The New deGrom Deserves His Own Thread Again Thread

Benjamin Grimm wrote: He would be only the third Hall-of-Famer to come out of the Mets farm system. That's interesting. Nolan Ryan and Tom Seaver are it, huh?

Benjamin Grimm Nov 10 2022 03:41 PM Re: The New deGrom Deserves His Own Thread Again Thread

That's it. Just them. I was wondering how that compares to other franchises. (It would only be fair to include players who debuted in the 1960s or later, of course.)

Edgy MD Nov 10 2022 04:28 PM Re: The New deGrom Deserves His Own Thread Again Thread

Koosman is probably the closest on the outside looking in.

batmagadanleadoff Nov 10 2022 05:01 PM Re: The New deGrom Deserves His Own Thread Again Thread

Edgy MD wrote: Koosman is probably the closest on the outside looking in. Amos Otis? Koosman has a slightly better case, I think, but Otis is in Kooz's ballpark.

Edgy MD Nov 10 2022 05:12 PM Re: The New deGrom Deserves His Own Thread Again Thread

Otis, Straw, David Wright, Dwight Gooden, Paul Blair, and Melvin Mora certainly all popped into my head, among others. But I think the dubious honor goes to Koosman, or maybe Tim Bogar.

batmagadanleadoff Nov 10 2022 05:15 PM Re: The New deGrom Deserves His Own Thread Again Thread

Edgy MD wrote: Otis, Straw, David Wright, Dwight Gooden, Paul Blair, and Melvin Mora certainly all popped into my head, among others. But I think the dubious honor goes to Koosman, or maybe Tim Bogar. Weird, but I totally forgot about every Met on your list other than Otis.

ashie62 Nov 10 2022 05:35 PM Re: The New deGrom Deserves His Own Thread Again Thread

[url]https://www.sny.tv/articles/jacob-degrom-free-agency-buzz Jacob deGrom has let the Rangers know he is interested in them (as well as presumably the Mets and perhaps others), but Carlos Rodon may be a better fit for Texas ultimately. The Rangers likely are still a year or two away from contending, and Rodon at 30 may work better than deGrom at 34. Rodon will have a bigger market — since deGrom is expected to seek $40 million plus, which will limit his field. Texas is expected to pursue all the best starters, and will likely sign multiple starters even after acquiring Jake Odorizzi in trade. Rangers baseball president Chris Young suggested they are considering all viable starters, including the top guys. The Rangers showed they are a serious player by spending $500 million on a double-play combination last winter. If the money is equal, I can't figure out why the Rangers would be appealing to de Grom. Dallas isn't that much closer to Florida, you have to figure Cohen is going to surround him with better players and have better chances to get a ring. The Braves, I would understand. But Texas? Texas spent on Corey Seager Marcus Semien Martin Perez so yes deGrom sent Texas his card

batmagadanleadoff Nov 10 2022 05:40 PM Re: The New deGrom Deserves His Own Thread Again Thread

[url]https://www.sny.tv/articles/jacob-degrom-free-agency-buzz Jacob deGrom has let the Rangers know he is interested in them (as well as presumably the Mets and perhaps others), but Carlos Rodon may be a better fit for Texas ultimately. The Rangers likely are still a year or two away from contending, and Rodon at 30 may work better than deGrom at 34. Rodon will have a bigger market — since deGrom is expected to seek $40 million plus, which will limit his field. Texas is expected to pursue all the best starters, and will likely sign multiple starters even after acquiring Jake Odorizzi in trade. Rangers baseball president Chris Young suggested they are considering all viable starters, including the top guys. The Rangers showed they are a serious player by spending $500 million on a double-play combination last winter. If the money is equal, I can't figure out why the Rangers would be appealing to de Grom. Dallas isn't that much closer to Florida, you have to figure Cohen is going to surround him with better players and have better chances to get a ring. The Braves, I would understand. But Texas? Texas spent on Corey Seager Marcus Semien Martin Perez so yes deGrom sent Texas his card If deGrom is healthy, the team with the best chance to take the WS title is whatever team deGrom pitches for, so long as that team is a playoff contender. And 40% of the teams now make the playoffs.

kcmets Nov 10 2022 06:22 PM Re: The New deGrom Deserves His Own Thread Again Thread

=batmagadanleadoff post_id=112770 time=1668127255 user_id=68]If deGrom is healthy

Is he ever healthy? Has had a lot of mysterious down time.



I'll be the first to welcome him back home, I'll also be the first to say

sayonara and thanks for all the fish.



My guess is he hates it here and he can't wait to leave.

batmagadanleadoff Nov 10 2022 06:35 PM Re: The New deGrom Deserves His Own Thread Again Thread

=kcmets post_id=112771 time=1668129742 user_id=53] =batmagadanleadoff post_id=112770 time=1668127255 user_id=68]If deGrom is healthy

Is he ever healthy? Has had a lot of mysterious down time.

Well, that's the risk....




=kcmets post_id=112771 time=1668129742 user_id=53]
My guess is he hates it here and he can't wait to leave.


That's where I'm at, too. I already wrote that somewhere in here. I don't know, though, if I'd go so far as to say that he hates it here. Just that he'd prefer a different culture, weather, food, style, etc. Or this could all be a bluff to get Cohen to pony up more than he otherwise would've. But I'm doubting that. He'll make enough money no matter where he goes.

Fman99 Nov 11 2022 04:00 AM Re: The New deGrom Deserves His Own Thread Again Thread

=batmagadanleadoff post_id=112749 time=1668118612 user_id=68] Also, a few months ago, I read somewhere that deGrom really likes the Arlington/Dallas area and prefers the Texas style of life to New York's.

Don't discount the absence of state taxes there. He stands to save several million in that regard.

smg58 Nov 11 2022 10:23 AM Re: The New deGrom Deserves His Own Thread Again Thread

You can fill pages with what you think is going on inside a player's mind. But until he unequivocally turns down the best offer -- which almost never happens -- the bottom line is the bottom line. MLBTradeRumors said it would take 3 years and $135M to sign him. I would much sooner give more years at that salary to a position player. Honestly, after being all for getting Scherzer last year, I don't think any pitcher is worth that right now. Even if they're healthy, they won't give you enough innings.

Edgy MD Nov 11 2022 12:23 PM Re: The New deGrom Deserves His Own Thread Again Thread

=Fman99 post_id=112780 time=1668164430 user_id=86] =batmagadanleadoff post_id=112749 time=1668118612 user_id=68] Also, a few months ago, I read somewhere that deGrom really likes the Arlington/Dallas area and prefers the Texas style of life to New York's.

Don't discount the absence of state taxes there. He stands to save several million in that regard.


Miami, Tampa Bay, and Seattle also have this going for them.

MFS62 Nov 11 2022 12:36 PM Re: The New deGrom Deserves His Own Thread Again Thread

=smg58 post_id=112797 time=1668187398 user_id=62] You can fill pages with what you think is going on inside a player's mind. But until he unequivocally turns down the best offer -- which almost never happens -- the bottom line is the bottom line.

Best isn't always biggest. One exception that comes to mind is John Olerud.

His wife had a difficult pregnancy and was about to give birth to a special needs child.

His wife's father was a doctor at the U of Washington Medical Center and John was convinced that the best care was available there. Whether or not a NY Hospital could have provided the same level of post-natal care, he had peace of mind when he signed with the Mariners.



Later

ashie62 Nov 12 2022 06:17 AM Re: The New deGrom Deserves His Own Thread Again Thread

I believe Jake will head south to be nearer to family Next

batmagadanleadoff Nov 14 2022 11:12 AM Re: The New deGrom Deserves His Own Thread Again Thread

[I]The Braves stun Mets fans when they land Jacob deGrom on a two-year, $90 million deal that includes an opt out after Year 1. One of Jim Bowden's 25 predictions for this off-season, writing for The Athletic .

Edgy MD Nov 14 2022 11:25 AM Re: The New deGrom Deserves His Own Thread Again Thread

That would kinda stun me. deGrom ought to be looking for years.

batmagadanleadoff Nov 14 2022 11:39 AM Re: The New deGrom Deserves His Own Thread Again Thread

That's what I thought when I first read that. That's a good deal for whatever team signs deGrom because it doesn't have to commit to deGrom's late 30 years which, given his injury history, are very risky. What bothered me about Bowden's prediction is that it's just more confirmation that deGrom's willingness to consider playing somewhere else is very real, maybe even a fait accompli.

Frayed Knot Nov 14 2022 11:58 AM Re: The New deGrom Deserves His Own Thread Again Thread

Assuming that Bowden's prediction is based on any knowledge of deGrom's mindset is a sizable leap.

MFS62 Nov 14 2022 12:20 PM Re: The New deGrom Deserves His Own Thread Again Thread

=batmagadanleadoff post_id=112881 time=1668449564 user_id=68] One of Jim Bowden's 25 predictions for this off-season, writing for The Athletic .

Did he predict anything Metsian? What?



Later

batmagadanleadoff Nov 14 2022 01:03 PM Re: The New deGrom Deserves His Own Thread Again Thread

=MFS62 post_id=112897 time=1668453637 user_id=60] =batmagadanleadoff post_id=112881 time=1668449564 user_id=68] One of Jim Bowden's 25 predictions for this off-season, writing for The Athletic .

Did he predict anything Metsian? What?






10. The Mets convince David Stearns to leave the Brewers organization and become their president of baseball operations.



22. Michael Conforto signs with the Blue Jays on a two-year $34 million deal with an opt out after Year 1, giving Toronto a much-needed left-handed power bat to better balance its lineup.

batmagadanleadoff Nov 15 2022 02:41 AM Re: The New deGrom Deserves His Own Thread Again Thread

Ken Rosenthal, for The Athletic writes that it's unlikely that the Braves will sign deGrom, explaining essentially that the Braves aren't willing to pay any single player the amount of money that it would probably take to sign deGrom.

Frayed Knot Nov 15 2022 04:03 AM Re: The New deGrom Deserves His Own Thread Again Thread

So, maybe not a fait accompli then?

Edgy MD Nov 15 2022 07:42 AM Re: The New deGrom Deserves His Own Thread Again Thread

Now I'm starting to suspect that David Stearns thing isn't set in stone.

Johnny Lunchbucket Nov 15 2022 08:27 AM Re: The New deGrom Deserves His Own Thread Again Thread

Somebody (The Blue Jays?) hired met-lovin big shot Jon Daniels to a front-offie position.

ashie62 Nov 17 2022 10:29 AM Re: The New deGrom Deserves His Own Thread Again Thread

Jim Bowden of The Athletic predicts Jake will sign with the Braves on a two year 90 million dollar deal with Jake getting a one year opt out clause

Benjamin Grimm Nov 17 2022 10:35 AM Re: The New deGrom Deserves His Own Thread Again Thread

I have a feeling that opt-outs are here to stay.

Ceetar Nov 17 2022 11:11 AM Re: The New deGrom Deserves His Own Thread Again Thread

=ashie62 post_id=113097 time=1668706183 user_id=90] Jim Bowden of The Athletic predicts Jake will sign with the Braves on a two year 90 million dollar deal with Jake getting a one year opt out clause

You're like a week late on this click-bait news, that's already been reported to not be true.

batmagadanleadoff Nov 21 2022 10:07 AM Re: The New deGrom Deserves His Own Thread Again Thread

The Mets have received enough indications from deGrom's camp, according to a source, that they believe the two-time Cy Young award winner wants to stay, provided there isn't a significant discrepancy in offers. https://nypost.com/2022/11/19/mets-believe-jacob-degrom-prefers-to-stay-if-contract-is-similar/

Marshmallowmilkshake Nov 22 2022 11:14 AM Re: The New deGrom Deserves His Own Thread Again Thread

[url]https://www.sny.tv/articles/yankees-checked-in-jacob-degrom-mets-priority They have to do this, especially after the loose talk about "We'll stay away from your guy if you stay away from ours."

MFS62 Nov 22 2022 05:43 PM Re: The New deGrom Deserves His Own Thread Again Thread

Should Jake's injury history be a negative factor for teams interested in signing him? (From an SNY article found on Yahoo/sports). For that, we turned to Deepak Chona, MD, founder of SportsMedAnalytics and a Stanford and Harvard-trained orthopedic sports surgeon who does not personally treat deGrom. "DeGrom has missed substantial time in recent years, but his injuries don't necessarily indicate an anatomic weak point that should make us think he's injury-prone," said Chona. "It's unlikely that a stress reaction in his scapula is related to the elbow inflammation that sidelined him previously. Furthermore, both of these injuries generally heal well without any lingering performance or durability impacts. "Could he get hurt again? Yes, absolutely. The forces of throwing a fastball put the shoulder and elbow at elevated risk in every pitcher. But there's nothing about his recent injury history to suggest that his risk is higher than any other pitcher of his age." Maybe not. Later