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Let's discuss Turner and Swanson and Correa and Bogaerts

Benjamin Grimm Nov 08 2022 07:37 AM

I saw something in my Google News feed this morning about how the Mets are going to be in on Trea Turner, but the "source" seems to be someone who writes for one of the fan sites. (Metsmerized Online's Michael Mayer) So, yeah, I'll wait to see what callers to WFAN are saying before I believe this. However... I do wonder if the Mets will consider signing one of the four big-name free-agent middle infielders. If Nimmo leaves, one of these guys could go to second base with McNeil going to right field and Marte to center. Is this likely? Well... here's where we can discuss it! (I don't think the Mets will go this way, but I'm hoping they will. Even if they keep Nimmo, McNeil can displace Canha in the outfield.)

Fman99 Nov 08 2022 07:47 AM Re: Let's discuss Turner and Swanson and Correa and Bogaerts

I think Turner is the most likely of the four - though I'm not sure what the odds are that it actually does happen. I am good with McNeil at a corner OF spot if it helps to upgrade the lineup, he'll do just fine out there.

roger_that Nov 08 2022 08:14 AM Re: Let's discuss Turner and Swanson and Correa and Bogaerts

It's important to be flexible in your expectations. McNeil gives us some flexibility, depending on whether they can sign Nimmo, which is a very good thing.

MFS62 Nov 08 2022 08:35 AM Re: Let's discuss Turner and Swanson and Correa and Bogaerts

I would love to see Turner in a Mets uniform. He not only provides needed hitting, but also defensive flexibility. I'm not sure whether the other three would be willing to play anything other than shortstop for a new team. Later

Frayed Knot Nov 08 2022 10:17 AM Re: Let's discuss Turner and Swanson and Correa and Bogaerts

All of those guys will get SS offers. I don't see what the advantage is for them to accept a non-SS offer.

Benjamin Grimm Nov 08 2022 10:25 AM Re: Let's discuss Turner and Swanson and Correa and Bogaerts

The only reason would be if the money was tempting enough.

MFS62 Nov 08 2022 10:29 AM Re: Let's discuss Turner and Swanson and Correa and Bogaerts

Frayed Knot wrote: All of those guys will get SS offers. I don't see what the advantage is for them to accept a non-SS offer. It would be like A-Rod changing positions because the incumbent is very good and well liked. And of the four mentioned, it seems to me that Turner would be the one most likely to do that - for the right price. Just a gut feel. Later

Frayed Knot Nov 08 2022 10:31 AM Re: Let's discuss Turner and Swanson and Correa and Bogaerts

Which means the Mets would have to think that Player X is worth more to them to play 2B (or maybe as a totally untested CF) than every other team would to play SS. Not a likely scenario IMO

Frayed Knot Nov 08 2022 10:34 AM Re: Let's discuss Turner and Swanson and Correa and Bogaerts

=MFS62 post_id=112606 time=1667928570 user_id=60] It would be like A-Rod changing positions because the incumbent is very good and well liked.

ARod moved via a trade.

He didn't have the same kind of say in the matter.

MFS62 Nov 08 2022 11:53 AM Re: Let's discuss Turner and Swanson and Correa and Bogaerts

Frayed Knot wrote: It would be like A-Rod changing positions because the incumbent is very good and well liked. ARod moved via a trade. He didn't have the same kind of say in the matter. Yes. But when he got here, A-Rod could have said "Move that other guy off short- I'm better". But he didn't.(to our knowledge) And that was my point. And of the four, if we had to pick any of them, I think Trea Turner might be ok with that. Later

smg58 Nov 08 2022 12:17 PM Re: Let's discuss Turner and Swanson and Correa and Bogaerts

There's a lot of value there, but some of that value (a very big chunk in Swanson's case) comes from them playing shortstop. It would be more fiscally prudent to resign Nimmo than to outbid a bunch of teams who need a shortstop more than we do. And if money is no object to bring in the right big bat, the right big bat is Aaron Judge. You consider it, but it's plan D or E.

Centerfield Nov 08 2022 01:42 PM Re: Let's discuss Turner and Swanson and Correa and Bogaerts

I don't see how these guys are a fit, but I guess anything is possible. I would never have predicted Canha, Escobar or Marte last year. This is the first post-season that I can remember where I have absolutely no clue what the Mets will do, or how to make this team competitive for next year. They have so many needs. They need three starting pitchers, an entire bullpen (Diaz is just the start), a centerfielder, and some offense (DH or otherwise). I get that Cohen has money, but it's just so expensive. Even if we just sign our top four (all are predictions I've read, except obviously Diaz): 1. Jacob deGrom: 3 years, 145 Million ($48M AAV) 2. Edwin Diaz: 5 years, $105M ($21M AAV) 3. Bassit: 4 years, $80M ($20M, AAV) 4. Nimmo: 5 Years, $100M ($20M, AAV) That's $109M, tacked onto the 2023 payroll, and you still need another starter, the rest of the bullpen, and you haven't done anything to upgrade the offense. Just crazy.

MFS62 Nov 08 2022 02:42 PM Re: Let's discuss Turner and Swanson and Correa and Bogaerts

=Centerfield post_id=112622 time=1667940162 user_id=65] That's $109M, tacked onto the 2023 payroll.

Looking at that number in a different way, it is a total of $61.3 million more than what they made this year. (I didn't consider option $ that were not taken.)

Still a lot of money. But we don't know who else they would consider signing, so we can't determine the incremental cost/benefit of re-signing that four versus other players.

A pitcher like Tyler Anderson might come at a lower cost.



Later

Lefty Specialist Nov 08 2022 03:06 PM Re: Let's discuss Turner and Swanson and Correa and Bogaerts

I seem to recall seeing somewhere that Turner would only be interested in playing short. There are many other places to upgrade rather than juggling second and the outfield. McNeil's proven he can play a competent right field, but he can also play a competent second base. I'd rather leave him there. Now if Nimmo departs, you might have to revisit this.

MFS62 Nov 08 2022 03:47 PM Re: Let's discuss Turner and Swanson and Correa and Bogaerts

Just saw that the Phillies are "odds on favorites" to sign Trea Turner if he leaves LA. https://www.audacy.com/wfan/sports/philadelphia-phillies-rumors-trea-turner-new-york-mets-los-angeles-dodgers?utm_campaign=www.audacy.com%252Fwfan&utm_content=1667944153&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter&utm_term=WFAN-AM&fbclid=IwAR0B81llC56un8FG1FJp0aAF2cmpOD__o505C_gm78NYOdirp_rQ1dppums Crap! Later

Frayed Knot Nov 08 2022 03:50 PM Re: Let's discuss Turner and Swanson and Correa and Bogaerts

Frayed Knot wrote: It would be like A-Rod changing positions because the incumbent is very good and well liked. ARod moved via a trade. He didn't have the same kind of say in the matter. Yes. But when he got here, A-Rod could have said "Move that other guy off short- I'm better". But he didn't.(to our knowledge) And that was my point. But, again, ARod had no power to make that switch happen. He was acquired via trade with an already existing contract. He could stomp his feet and say 'Move the other guy' all he wanted but unless the Mgr and front office agreed he was S.O.L. As SMG said in one of the above posts, a decent chunk of value in these FA short-stops is in the fact that they're a SS. It doesn't make them worthless elsewhere on the field but it generally does make them worth less. So either Turner et al are going to agree to come here at a lower rate for the less prestigious role or Uncle Steve is going to have to decide to out-bid all the other SS offers for a guy who's not going to play SS. Neither, IMO, is likely. Or logical for that matter.

roger_that Nov 08 2022 04:02 PM Re: Let's discuss Turner and Swanson and Correa and Bogaerts

nothing is logical to an owner determined to break the bank. If Cohen wants Turner to play 3B and is willing to pay him SS wages, what's to prevent it? What's to prevent Turner from signing such a contract?

batmagadanleadoff Nov 08 2022 04:13 PM Re: Let's discuss Turner and Swanson and Correa and Bogaerts

As far as the money, it might as well be toy money or Monopoly money where Cohen is concerned. Forty of fifty million dollars to Cohen is like lunch at Burger King money for people like us. The penalty though, lies in the new escalating luxury tax, where a team could end up forfeiting draft picks at some point.

Edgy MD Nov 08 2022 04:57 PM Re: Let's discuss Turner and Swanson and Correa and Bogaerts

Let's discuss Turner and Hooch.

MFS62 Nov 08 2022 05:04 PM Re: Let's discuss Turner and Swanson and Correa and Bogaerts

Edgy MD wrote: Let's discuss Turner and Hooch. Or Bachman-Turner Overdrive. Later

Frayed Knot Nov 08 2022 05:09 PM Re: Let's discuss Turner and Swanson and Correa and Bogaerts

=roger_that post_id=112635 time=1667948563 user_id=128] nothing is logical to an owner determined to break the bank. If Cohen wants Turner to play 3B and is willing to pay him SS wages, what's to prevent it? What's to prevent Turner from signing such a contract?

Nothing is preventing it ... except for logic and good business practices.

But, yes, if Cohen is intent on offering more for a 2B/3B than every other team in on the bidding is willing to offer said dude to play SS AND the player agrees to those conditions then, sure, there's nothing to prevent it.



I just don't think that's the way things are likely to go down.

Edgy MD Nov 08 2022 05:31 PM Re: Let's discuss Turner and Swanson and Correa and Bogaerts

And I certainly don't want an owner determined to forsake logic in pursuit of a goal of breaking the bank.

roger_that Nov 08 2022 05:46 PM Re: Let's discuss Turner and Swanson and Correa and Bogaerts

Edgy MD wrote: And I certainly don't want an owner determined to forsake logic in pursuit of a goal of breaking the bank. Not a Steve Cohen fan, are you?

batmagadanleadoff Nov 08 2022 06:40 PM Re: Let's discuss Turner and Swanson and Correa and Bogaerts

Frayed Knot wrote: Frayed Knot wrote: ARod moved via a trade. He didn't have the same kind of say in the matter. Yes. But when he got here, A-Rod could have said "Move that other guy off short- I'm better". But he didn't.(to our knowledge) And that was my point. But, again, ARod had no power to make that switch happen. He was acquired via trade with an already existing contract. He could stomp his feet and say 'Move the other guy' all he wanted but unless the Mgr and front office agreed he was S.O.L. As SMG said in one of the above posts, a decent chunk of value in these FA short-stops is in the fact that they're a SS. It doesn't make them worthless elsewhere on the field but it generally does make them worth less. So either Turner et al are going to agree to come here at a lower rate for the less prestigious role or Uncle Steve is going to have to decide to out-bid all the other SS offers for a guy who's not going to play SS. Neither, IMO, is likely. Or logical for that matter. A-Rod agreed to switch over to third base before the trade was made. If he didn't agree beforehand, and Jeter didn't agree to play third base (which Jeter didn't), the Yankees would not have made the trade in the first place. The trade hinged entirely on A-Rod agreeing to play third base. So A-Rod did have some say in the matter.

Edgy MD Nov 08 2022 07:28 PM Re: Let's discuss Turner and Swanson and Correa and Bogaerts

Edgy MD wrote: And I certainly don't want an owner determined to forsake logic in pursuit of a goal of breaking the bank. Not a Steve Cohen fan, are you? I don't tend to give my fandom to billionaire hedge fund managers in general, but do you understand that to be Steve Cohen's modus operandi and goal? God, I hope not. We have enough crazy megalomaniacs running the world.

Frayed Knot Nov 08 2022 07:52 PM Re: Let's discuss Turner and Swanson and Correa and Bogaerts

=batmagadanleadoff post_id=112649 time=1667958021 user_id=68] A-Rod agreed to switch over to third base before the trade was made. If he didn't agree beforehand, and Jeter didn't agree to play third base (which Jeter didn't), the Yankees would not have made the trade in the first place.

Assuming that ARod had a no-trade clause (which he probably did) then, yes, he could negate the trade for any reason or for no reason at all. But he still had little power in making a position change

happen because it's not like he could then go and shop himself as a SS to a different club if he didn't get his way the way a FA can. That's what makes this an entirely different situation.

ARod wanted out but there were very few teams that could afford to take him AND he had no power to initiate deals with others while still under contract to the Rangers. And he most certainly couldn't

force a change after the trade was made which was the original claim.

The trade hinged entirely on A-Rod agreeing to play third base. So A-Rod did have some say in the matter.

No, the trade hinged almost entirely on his contract situation. The Yanquis wanted relief from Texas while the Player's Association watched closely to make sure that whatever changes were made

didn't lessen the overall value of the original deal. As you may recall, he had previously been dealt in principle to Boston but the PA nixed the trade because they didn't approve of the new terms.

batmagadanleadoff Nov 08 2022 08:03 PM Re: Let's discuss Turner and Swanson and Correa and Bogaerts

Frayed Knot wrote: =batmagadanleadoff post_id=112649 time=1667958021 user_id=68] A-Rod agreed to switch over to third base before the trade was made. If he didn't agree beforehand, and Jeter didn't agree to play third base (which Jeter didn't), the Yankees would not have made the trade in the first place. Assuming that ARod had a no-trade clause (which he probably did) then, yes, he could negate the trade for any reason or for no reason at all. But he still had little power in making a position change happen because it's not like he could then go and shop himself as a SS to a different club if he didn't get his way the way a FA can. That's what makes this an entirely different situation. ARod wanted out but there were very few teams that could afford to take him AND he had no power to initiate deals with others while still under contract to the Rangers. And he most certainly couldn't force a change after the trade was made which was the original claim. The trade hinged entirely on A-Rod agreeing to play third base. So A-Rod did have some say in the matter. No, the trade hinged almost entirely on his contract situation. The Yanquis wanted relief from Texas while the Player's Association watched closely to make sure that whatever changes were made didn't lessen the overall value of the original deal. As you may recall, he had previously been dealt in principle to Boston but the PA nixed the trade because they didn't approve of the new terms.

The Yankees needed a third baseman. That was the off-season that Aaron Boone sustained a serious injury playing pick-up basketball. Boone would miss the entire 2004 season. That's what prompted the Yankees to seek a third baseman and ultimately, A-Rod. I understand that that's not the situation previously described in this thread by some other poster, but I'm not the one who made that earlier comparison. That some other poster did. I'm just saying that it's not as if A-Rod had no say and was totally powerless in that deal and got traded to the Yanks and had to play third base whether he liked it or not because third base was rammed up his ass because that's what you made it sound like.

Frayed Knot Nov 09 2022 05:46 AM Re: Let's discuss Turner and Swanson and Correa and Bogaerts

The bottom line is that the Yanx could turn to other 3B options but Rodriguez had no ability to engage other teams. That represents a total imbalance in power that robbed ARod of virtually all leverage to swing a position change (we have no idea if he even tried) and makes his case completely non-analogous to this current crop of FA SSs. And now back to my original original point on the topic: Jon Hey Man chimes in on the lack of logic and likelihood of a Trea Turner signing: https://nypost.com/2022/11/08/a-mets-trea-turner-mlb-free-agency-splash-makes-little-sense/

roger_that Nov 09 2022 09:06 AM Re: Let's discuss Turner and Swanson and Correa and Bogaerts

Frayed Knot wrote: And now back to my original original point on the topic: Jon Hey Man chimes in on the lack of logic and likelihood of a Trea Turner signing: https://nypost.com/2022/11/08/a-mets-trea-turner-mlb-free-agency-splash-makes-little-sense/ Hey Man is for horses, man. Is there more hedging possible than in this graf? After Nimmo, the other great option would be to try to sign Aaron Judge and move Starling Marte to center field. But of course, the Mets don't want to start an intracity war with the Yankees (and cost themselves $300 million in the process). And they seem slightly uncertain about the idea of moving Marte to center field full-time. They "seem slightly uncertain"? Ya mean, because he's getting on in years and hasn't played fulltime CF for a while? Anyone would "seem slightly uncertain" in those circumstances. Are ya sure you've left yourself enough wiggleroom if it turns out to be anything between "disastrous" and "genius"? And "of course" the Mets don't want a war with the Yankees? I suspect they welcome such a war. And why wouldn't they want to spend money on Judge? Well, for a lot of reasons, none of them being "Judge has a high ticket price on him." They wouldn't sign him because he's overpriced, maybe on the verge of a career decline, but Cohen is dying to spend big buck to improve the roster.

smg58 Nov 09 2022 10:39 AM Re: Let's discuss Turner and Swanson and Correa and Bogaerts

"of course" the Mets don't want a war with the Yankees? I suspect they welcome such a war. And why wouldn't they want to spend money on Judge? Well, for a lot of reasons, none of them being "Judge has a high ticket price on him." They wouldn't sign him because he's overpriced, maybe on the verge of a career decline, but Cohen is dying to spend big buck to improve the roster. I'm pretty sure Heyman was the same guy who suggested a couple of years ago that Mets fans should be OK with trading deGrom to the Yankees. Personally I'm for signing Judge, giving free Judge T-shirts out to every single Mets fan (in the traditional orange and blue pinstripes, naturally) and having a big parade that starts at Heyman's house and ends at Michael Kay's. But I'm not for starting a war with the Yankees, no.

MFS62 Nov 09 2022 10:48 AM Re: Let's discuss Turner and Swanson and Correa and Bogaerts Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Nov 09 2022 10:53 AM

=smg58 post_id=112677 time=1668015571 user_id=62] Personally I'm for signing Judge, giving free Judge T-shirts out to every single Mets fan (in the traditional orange and blue pinstripes, naturally) and having a big parade that starts at Heyman's house and ends at Michael Kay's. But I'm not for starting a war with the Yankees, no.

Really did laugh out loud.

You would have received my vote in yesterday's election.

Will a BOC suffice?



Later

Gwreck Nov 09 2022 10:52 AM Re: Let's discuss Turner and Swanson and Correa and Bogaerts

Obviously adding Trea Turner makes the Mets a better team and whether he plays second or third or DH is really only a minor concern. I certainly don't know if he'd want that role but if it's a matter of money, Steve's got plenty to spend. I assume the easiest move is to re-sign Nimmo but if that's not going to happen/Brandon wants to leave, then I don't really know what to expect. We don't really have enough information to know where Cohen's budget will be. Personally, if I had Steve's money, I'd probably say “what budget?” and had try to sign both. And then add Judge too, as per smg58's plan above.

ashie62 Nov 09 2022 02:24 PM Re: Let's discuss Turner and Swanson and Correa and Bogaerts

=MFS62 post_id=112679 time=1668016102 user_id=60] =smg58 post_id=112677 time=1668015571 user_id=62] Personally I'm for signing Judge, giving free Judge T-shirts out to every single Mets fan (in the traditional orange and blue pinstripes, naturally) and having a big parade that starts at Heyman's house and ends at Michael Kay's. But I'm not for starting a war with the Yankees, no.

Really did laugh out loud.

You would have received my vote in yesterday's election.

Will a BOC suffice?



Later


Ditto, big ditto