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Non-NYM winter 22/23 comings and goings

Frayed Knot Nov 19 2022 04:25 AM

Been meaning to start this one for the last week or two -- tracking stuff such as Rizzo re-upping w/the Yanx, etc*. -- but just getting to it now with the news overnight that the Dodgers have non-tendered 2019 MVP Cody Bellinger making him a FA. After he OPS'd his way to a 1035 OPS (167 OPS+) season in 2019 where he was also simultaneously LAD's best defensive CF and their best 1B (and maybe their best base-runner not named Betts), in exactly 900 PA across the 2021/2022 seasons the still just 27 y/o Bellinger put up a slash line of: .193/.256/.355 // 611 (64 OPS+) w/244 Ks in 819 ABs. That's not a downward slide it's a cratering, one that really started the very next year as he fell from that 1035 OPS in '19 to 789 in '20 which points to the idea that he maybe never really recovered from the shoulder injury he sustained during an over-the-top celebration in the '19 playoff series vs Washington. * although, as always, if you think something deserves its own thread then give it its own thread

smg58 Nov 19 2022 11:08 AM Re: Non-NYM winter 22/23 comings and goings Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Nov 24 2022 09:20 AM

I don't even know if "cratering" does Bellinger's fall sufficient justice. Other than Bellinger, not a whole lot of noteworthy names that I could see. One name I could see the Mets looking into is Jarlin Garcia, who has been a serviceable lefty out of the pen over several years for the Giants. 65 IP with a 3.50 or so ERA from any reliever would be worth the $2.5M the Giants weren't willing to give him.

smg58 Nov 19 2022 11:16 AM Re: Non-NYM winter 22/23 comings and goings

In an odd trade, the Twins trade Gio Urshela to the Angels for a mid-teens prospect. I would think a .285/.338/.429 third baseman who wouldn't kill you at short making $8M could get a lot more than that. Perhaps the Twins were in a hurry to free a roster spot or had their eyes on that particular prospect, but I don't get this one.

smg58 Nov 19 2022 11:35 AM Re: Non-NYM winter 22/23 comings and goings

There was another interesting non-tender. Alex Reyes got the boot from St. Louis. He has all kinds of talent, but he's missed multiple whole seasons (2022 included).

smg58 Nov 19 2022 11:36 AM Re: Non-NYM winter 22/23 comings and goings

I don't even know if "cratering" does Bellinger's fall sufficient justice. Other than Bellinger, not a whole lot of noteworthy names that I could see. One name I could see the Mets looking into is Jarlin Garcia, who has been a serviceable lefty out of the pen over several years for the Giants. 65 IP with a 3.50 or so ERA from any reliever would be worth the $2.5M the Giants weren't willing to give him.

Edgy MD Nov 19 2022 08:41 PM Re: Non-NYM winter 22/23 comings and goings

The Blue Jays/Mariners trade* of Teoscar Hernandez for Erik Swanson and lefthanded pitching prospect Adam Macko is Met-relevant because it reportedly sets up the Blue Jays jumping feet-first into the Zimmo market. * They probably made the deal after bumping into each other at the Class of '77's 45th Anniversary Reunion.

smg58 Nov 20 2022 09:11 AM Re: Non-NYM winter 22/23 comings and goings

That one makes no sense at face value either; Swanson had a really good year, but the Mariners sold him very high. Even if the Jays do sign Nimmo, they'll be paying a huge premium for a defensive upgrade. And obviously, I hope they don't sign Nimmo.

MFS62 Nov 23 2022 02:05 PM Re: Non-NYM winter 22/23 comings and goings

The Los Angeles Angels acquired power-hitting outfielder Hunter Renfroe in a trade with the Milwaukee Brewers for three young pitchers Tuesday night. Milwaukee received right-handers Janson Junk and Elvis Peguero, and minor league lefty Adam Seminaris. Renroe is good. The pitchers seem to be nothing special. Later

Benjamin Grimm Nov 23 2022 02:08 PM Re: Non-NYM winter 22/23 comings and goings

How good can someone named "Junk" be?

Edgy MD Nov 23 2022 02:19 PM Re: Non-NYM winter 22/23 comings and goings

Famed scout Astro Jetson is very high on Renroe.

Frayed Knot Nov 24 2022 05:28 AM Re: Non-NYM winter 22/23 comings and goings

Reconstructive elbow surgery for Bryce Harper. Likely out until the ASB in '23 and slated as the full-time DH when he does come back with a possible return to RF towards the end of the year. A partially torn UCL, along with a broken thumb due to a HBP, kept him sidelined and/or DH'ing for much of '22

smg58 Nov 24 2022 09:19 AM Re: Non-NYM winter 22/23 comings and goings

Well if anybody can afford to think long-term, it's Bryce Harper. It probably helps the Phillies long-term as well, but they might have some ground to make up next year by the time he gets back.

TransMonk Nov 26 2022 12:10 PM Re: Non-NYM winter 22/23 comings and goings

Any reason for waiting so long to perform the surgery? Seems like they could have done it a few weeks ago and gotten the jump on the recovery period.

MFS62 Nov 26 2022 12:52 PM Re: Non-NYM winter 22/23 comings and goings

Any reason for waiting so long to perform the surgery? Seems like they could have done it a few weeks ago and gotten the jump on the recovery period. I'm not a Doctor but my mother aways wanted me to be one. The only thing I can think of is he might have re-inured it by playing in the world series and they had to wait for swelling to go down before they could operate. And I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn Express, either. Later

MFS62 Nov 28 2022 07:53 AM Re: Non-NYM winter 22/23 comings and goings

The White Sox have signed right-hander Mike Clevinger to a one-year contract worth $8 million. The 31-year-old made 22 starts for the Padres after returning from Tommy John surgery, turning in a 4.33 ERA/4.97 FIP (86 ERA+) and a 1.198 WHIP with 91 strikeouts in 114 1/3 innings (7.2 K/9). Later

ashie62 Nov 28 2022 02:00 PM Re: Non-NYM winter 22/23 comings and goings

Jose Abreu is said to be going to the Astros Age 35 three years 50 million

G-Fafif Dec 02 2022 02:24 PM Re: Non-NYM winter 22/23 comings and goings

Self-styled Met villain heads back to NL. [tweet]https://twitter.com/mlbnetwork/status/1598789451962060825[/tweet]

MFS62 Dec 05 2022 11:01 AM Re: Non-NYM winter 22/23 comings and goings

Kershaw back to LA on a one year deal. Later

G-Fafif Dec 07 2022 02:32 PM Re: Non-NYM winter 22/23 comings and goings

We can stop harboring uniform-based disdain for ex-Brave Kenley Jansen. [tweet]https://twitter.com/mlb/status/1600524977148682240[/tweet]

MFS62 Dec 07 2022 05:14 PM Re: Non-NYM winter 22/23 comings and goings

OF Masataka Yoshida signs a 5 year deal with the Red Sox. Rats! There goes my sleeper pick in the FA contest. Oh well, we didn't lose Mangum. Later

nymr83 Dec 08 2022 02:26 PM Re: Non-NYM winter 22/23 comings and goings

=MFS62 post_id=114265 time=1670458467 user_id=60] OF Masataka Yoshida signs a 5 year deal with the Red Sox. Rats! There goes my sleeper pick in the FA contest. Oh well, we didn't lose Mangum. Later

I saw Magnum was the PTBNL in the earlier Marlins trade?

MFS62 Dec 09 2022 05:40 AM Re: Non-NYM winter 22/23 comings and goings

=nymr83 post_id=114331 time=1670534764 user_id=54] =MFS62 post_id=114265 time=1670458467 user_id=60] OF Masataka Yoshida signs a 5 year deal with the Red Sox. Rats! There goes my sleeper pick in the FA contest. Oh well, we didn't lose Mangum. Later

I saw Magnum was the PTBNL in the earlier Marlins trade?

Yes.

But I saw them as a replacement if we lost Nimmo.

We got Nimmo.

But they still need another bat.

Later

The Hot Corner Dec 10 2022 04:50 PM Re: Non-NYM winter 22/23 comings and goings

I would like to see a righthanded DH that could help out in the field (1st base, OF, third base or catcher) when necessaqry. I believe that to some extent, the Mets are likely figuring Alvarez as a possibility for such a role. He may not be ready defensively to assume the primary catching duties, but his power is legit and if he can hit .250 with power he will provide a substantial upgrade over what Ruf provided last year. I expect the Mets will give Alvarez every opportunity to show he can contribute at the ML level. Hopefully, he will be up to the task. That said, I would not be surprised to see them obtain a right handed bat to help fill the role and lessen their potential dependence on the youngster Alvarez. If we end up with 2 dangerous righthanded bats, even better.

MFS62 Dec 12 2022 01:35 PM Re: Non-NYM winter 22/23 comings and goings

According to Jeff Passan, the Braves have traded for A's catcher Sean Murphy. No other details available yet. Later

Benjamin Grimm Dec 12 2022 01:49 PM Re: Non-NYM winter 22/23 comings and goings

What does this mean for Travis?

MFS62 Dec 12 2022 02:02 PM Re: Non-NYM winter 22/23 comings and goings

Benjamin Grimm wrote: What does this mean for Travis? He's 33, has one more year (and one option year) left on his contract. Murphy won a Gold Glove (grrrrr, shoulda' been Nido). Their hitting stats were fairly similar. Travis caught a little over 100 games last year. Maybe they're afraid he's wearing down. Later

Johnny Lunchbucket Dec 12 2022 02:44 PM Re: Non-NYM winter 22/23 comings and goings

It was a 3-catcher deal. A's get Milwaukee's Manny Pina. Milwaukee gets William Contreras, Braves get Murphy. I think the A's get some other shit too

Frayed Knot Dec 12 2022 03:27 PM Re: Non-NYM winter 22/23 comings and goings

Benjamin Grimm wrote: What does this mean for Travis? Since it's a swap of catchers, it shouldn't really affect Travis at all. William Contreras (younger brother of Willson who hopped from the Cubs to the Cards recently) was a 24 y/o All Star this past year w/the Braves and actually out-HR'd and out-OPS'd TdA in fewer ABs (Braves catchers combined for 38 HRs in 2022). Sounds like maybe the Braves are opting for defense over offense. Murphy won a Gold Glove (grrrrr, shoulda' been Nido). Even if I were to buy the idea that Nido's defense was so spectacular last year in his 86 starts behind the plate that his was robbed of a Gold Glove (which I don't) you do realize that he and Murphy were in different leagues and therefore one player couldn't have stolen the award from the other, right?

MFS62 Dec 12 2022 03:29 PM Re: Non-NYM winter 22/23 comings and goings

Frayed Knot wrote: you do realize that he and Murphy were in different leagues and therefore one player couldn't have stolen the award from the other, right? Yes. I should have written that as "As so should have Nido ". Later

The Hot Corner Dec 12 2022 04:32 PM Re: Non-NYM winter 22/23 comings and goings

Benjamin Grimm wrote: What does this mean for Travis? Likely he becomes the back up catcher with some time at DH against lefties.

MFS62 Dec 12 2022 05:25 PM Re: Non-NYM winter 22/23 comings and goings

FA catcher Chris Vazquez rumored to be signing with the Twins. But since he isn't in our contest, who cares? Later

metirish Dec 14 2022 04:11 PM Re: Non-NYM winter 22/23 comings and goings

Noah to the Dodgers , Passan first

nymr83 Dec 14 2022 06:07 PM Re: Non-NYM winter 22/23 comings and goings

=metirish post_id=114836 time=1671059481 user_id=72] Noah to the Dodgers , Passan first

not where i would have liked to see Syndegaard succeed, though i wish him success

Johnny Lunchbucket Dec 14 2022 07:27 PM Re: Non-NYM winter 22/23 comings and goings

=metirish post_id=114836 time=1671059481 user_id=72] Noah to the Dodgers , Passan first

I feel like we can do this on the forum. Syndergaard to LAD, metirish 1st

kcmets Dec 14 2022 07:39 PM Re: Non-NYM winter 22/23 comings and goings

Ain't just Uncle Steve spending. Tons of money flowing big.

nymr83 Dec 14 2022 08:54 PM Re: Non-NYM winter 22/23 comings and goings

The certainty of a new CBA/labor peace for the meat of these contracts probably helps.

Fman99 Dec 15 2022 04:15 AM Re: Non-NYM winter 22/23 comings and goings

Los Angeles is the perfect landing spot for Thor. He's been dodging us since he left the team.

Frayed Knot Dec 15 2022 04:17 AM Re: Non-NYM winter 22/23 comings and goings

Johnny Lunchbucket wrote: =metirish post_id=114836 time=1671059481 user_id=72] Noah to the Dodgers , Passan first I feel like we can do this on the forum. Syndergaard to LAD, metirish 1st

Syndergaard and Gingergaard (Dustin May), together at last.



A one year deal for a guy who's pitched in 27 games/137 innings since the end of 2019

And, upon his first appearance for LAD in '23, those 28 appearances will be spread over four teams.

Probably not what anyone would have predicted following his 32 starts in his age 26 season but

such is life when dealing with ML pitchers.

metirish Dec 15 2022 05:49 AM Re: Non-NYM winter 22/23 comings and goings

Johnny Lunchbucket wrote: =metirish post_id=114836 time=1671059481 user_id=72] Noah to the Dodgers , Passan first I feel like we can do this on the forum. Syndergaard to LAD, metirish 1st

I always find this hilarious on Twitter

MFS62 Dec 15 2022 08:03 AM Re: Non-NYM winter 22/23 comings and goings

No-ah Syndergaard points in our FA contest. Later

metirish Dec 15 2022 06:10 PM Re: Non-NYM winter 22/23 comings and goings

Radon to the MFY 6 years $162 Passan first

Frayed Knot Dec 15 2022 06:11 PM Re: Non-NYM winter 22/23 comings and goings

=metirish post_id=114918 time=1671153021 user_id=72] Radon to the MFY 6 years $162

I'd love to see the Yanx to be exposed to radon for six years!!

metirish Dec 15 2022 06:18 PM Re: Non-NYM winter 22/23 comings and goings

Frayed Knot wrote: =metirish post_id=114918 time=1671153021 user_id=72] Radon to the MFY 6 years $162 I'd love to see the Yanx to be exposed to radon for six years!!

🤣 Now that would be great, hopefully this contract will be as bad

MFS62 Dec 16 2022 06:05 AM Re: Non-NYM winter 22/23 comings and goings

No Radon FA points in our contest. Later

metsmarathon Dec 16 2022 06:12 AM Re: Non-NYM winter 22/23 comings and goings

i gotta say, and maybe i'm somewhat biased here, but with as crazy as the contracts have been this year, i like the deals the mets signed a hell of a lot better than the ones other teams signed.

Fman99 Dec 16 2022 06:25 AM Re: Non-NYM winter 22/23 comings and goings

=metsmarathon post_id=114942 time=1671196364 user_id=83] i gotta say, and maybe i'm somewhat biased here, but with as crazy as the contracts have been this year, i like the deals the mets signed a hell of a lot better than the ones other teams signed.

Seriously. The Mets spent a lot but they at least spread it around among a bunch of players.

Frayed Knot Dec 16 2022 04:17 PM Re: Non-NYM winter 22/23 comings and goings

Joey Gallo packs up his three true outcomes and heads for the two cities in Minnesota on a one year deal. I have no idea who first reported this.

MFS62 Dec 16 2022 04:32 PM Re: Non-NYM winter 22/23 comings and goings

ABC local news saying Andrew Benintendi 5 years, $75 million with the ChiSox. No FA contest points. Later

G-Fafif Dec 17 2022 05:37 PM Re: Non-NYM winter 22/23 comings and goings

Won't be a Met. [tweet]https://twitter.com/mlb/status/1604268768628293632[/tweet]

nymr83 Dec 17 2022 06:35 PM Re: Non-NYM winter 22/23 comings and goings

1 year 10 mil for JD Martinez, now that is a deal I wish the Mets had signed.

G-Fafif Dec 17 2022 07:02 PM Re: Non-NYM winter 22/23 comings and goings

Dodgers interested in Seth Lugo as a starter — like “Ken Rosenthal is reporting…” interested. [tweet]https://twitter.com/ken_rosenthal/status/1604277242388938752[/tweet]

metirish Dec 18 2022 04:56 PM Re: Non-NYM winter 22/23 comings and goings

Justin Turner to Boston in a multi-year deal reports Joon Lee, credits Passan too

Frayed Knot Dec 18 2022 05:45 PM Re: Non-NYM winter 22/23 comings and goings

Multi-year?!?!

Johnny Lunchbucket Dec 18 2022 05:48 PM Re: Non-NYM winter 22/23 comings and goings

2x22

Frayed Knot Dec 18 2022 06:02 PM Re: Non-NYM winter 22/23 comings and goings

Has been trending towards league average for several seasons now and just turned 38 a few weeks ago. Maybe playing at Fenway revives him until he expires like old milk, but that's a risk even in the short term.

MFS62 Dec 19 2022 05:44 AM Re: Non-NYM winter 22/23 comings and goings

No Justin Turner FA contest points. Later

Edgy MD Dec 19 2022 07:39 AM Re: Non-NYM winter 22/23 comings and goings

It's interesting. When the Sox were at the top of their game in the early part of the century, the players who made a big name for themselves there but were trending downwards seemed to end up on the Dodgers. The manager too. I can't say that the trend is reversing and the Sox now end up with the Dodgers' castoffs — I'd have to squint real hard to look at Justin Turner alone and see a trend — but the Sox offseason has sure been puzzling.

G-Fafif Dec 19 2022 08:48 AM Re: Non-NYM winter 22/23 comings and goings

[tweet]https://twitter.com/cubs/status/1604854300689453056[/tweet]

MFS62 Dec 19 2022 10:30 AM Re: Non-NYM winter 22/23 comings and goings

J.D. Martinez will reportedly call Chavez Ravine home. (found this in a story about possible additions to the Mets on SNY. No other confirmation.) OE: Jeff Passan confirming this. One year, $10 million. No CPF FA points involved. Later

MFS62 Dec 19 2022 12:03 PM Re: Non-NYM winter 22/23 comings and goings

Sharpie picks up a Taillon point. Later

MFS62 Dec 20 2022 03:53 PM Re: Non-NYM winter 22/23 comings and goings

Matt Carpenter - 2 year contract with Padres. Later

MFS62 Dec 24 2022 10:38 AM Re: Non-NYM winter 22/23 comings and goings

Brandon Drury signed a 2 year $17 million contract with he Angels. No points in our FA contest. Later

Johnny Lunchbucket Dec 24 2022 11:21 AM Re: Non-NYM winter 22/23 comings and goings

Craig Kimbrell ^-- Phillies

Frayed Knot Dec 24 2022 11:27 AM Re: Non-NYM winter 22/23 comings and goings

He's not the Kimbrel he was, but he should strengthen a Phils pen which was already no longer a pushover.

Frayed Knot Dec 27 2022 08:02 PM Re: Non-NYM winter 22/23 comings and goings

Nathan Eovaldi, RHP, Texas, two years

Frayed Knot Dec 28 2022 11:04 AM Re: Non-NYM winter 22/23 comings and goings

=MFS62 post_id=114620 time=1670877331 user_id=60] According to Jeff Passan, the Braves have traded for A's catcher Sean Murphy. No other details available yet.

One detail that's been added recently is that the Braves have signed him to a six year contract.

Edgy MD Dec 28 2022 11:29 AM Re: Non-NYM winter 22/23 comings and goings

Man, I'm curious to eventually find out how Swanson missed the gravy boat.

Frayed Knot Dec 28 2022 03:27 PM Re: Non-NYM winter 22/23 comings and goings

The Braves simply had a number that they wouldn't surpass and Swanson, a Georgia native, wanted to surpass it. They've also got Vaughn Grissom, the call up they used at 2nd while Albies was injured part of '22, waiting in the wings even if they're not yet totally sold that he'll be able to cut it at SS defensively.

Edgy MD Dec 28 2022 04:01 PM Re: Non-NYM winter 22/23 comings and goings

I assume it's that simple, but that's boring!

MFS62 Dec 29 2022 07:18 AM Re: Non-NYM winter 22/23 comings and goings

Jean Segura signs with the Marlins. No CPF FA points. Later

smg58 Dec 29 2022 03:21 PM Re: Non-NYM winter 22/23 comings and goings

Last week the Yankees DFA'd Lucas Luetge, a lefty reliever coming off a season with a 2.67 ERA, and then yesterday dealt him to the Braves for two underwhelming prospects. On paper, it looks great for the Braves and puzzling for the Yankees (i.e., there must be somebody on the 40 who's an easier cut than a lefty who did well for you). Oddly, I'm hoping the Yankees know what they're doing.

metirish Jan 03 2023 11:25 AM Re: Non-NYM winter 22/23 comings and goings

Is there a MFY thread ? Anyways [TWEET]https://twitter.com/Yankees/status/1610335933789880324[/TWEET]

metirish Jan 03 2023 12:44 PM Re: Non-NYM winter 22/23 comings and goings

[TWEET]https://twitter.com/Feinsand/status/1610359798838558722[/TWEET]

A Boy Named Seo Jan 03 2023 12:45 PM Re: Non-NYM winter 22/23 comings and goings

:'-( Was there ever a 'memories of' thread?

metirish Jan 03 2023 12:48 PM Re: Non-NYM winter 22/23 comings and goings

A Boy Named Seo wrote: :'-( Was there ever a 'memories of' thread? I looked and didn't see one , although I do remember him being talked about

Benjamin Grimm Jan 03 2023 12:49 PM Re: Non-NYM winter 22/23 comings and goings

Now is the time for one, now that he's officially with another organization.

G-Fafif Jan 04 2023 01:30 PM Re: Non-NYM winter 22/23 comings and goings

2015 World Series villain Eric Hosmer is a 2023 Chicago Cub.

Frayed Knot Jan 04 2023 04:11 PM Re: Non-NYM winter 22/23 comings and goings

Not a coming or a going but a staying as Jeff Passan reports that the BoSox and 3B Rafael Devers are "finalizing" an 11-year deal. Unlike some of the other mega-deals (and possible deals!) Devers is not yet a FA and just recently turned 26.

metirish Jan 05 2023 11:47 AM Re: Non-NYM winter 22/23 comings and goings

[TWEET]https://twitter.com/JackCurryYES/status/1611032851234922497[/TWEET]

kcmets Jan 05 2023 12:30 PM Re: Non-NYM winter 22/23 comings and goings

Ooops, started a new thread for Omar...

MFS62 Jan 07 2023 01:59 PM Re: Non-NYM winter 22/23 comings and goings

The Phillies have acquired left-handed reliever Gregory Soto and utilityman Kody Clemens in a deal with the Tigers. Philadelphia will send INF Nick Maton, OF/1B Matt Vierling and C/DH Donny Sands back to Detroit. The two teams announced the deal this afternoon. Later

Frayed Knot Jan 07 2023 02:27 PM Re: Non-NYM winter 22/23 comings and goings

Also, the Tigers included a bat as a throw-in in that deal.

roger_that Jan 08 2023 02:52 AM Re: Non-NYM winter 22/23 comings and goings

Frayed Knot wrote: Also, the Tigers included a bat as a throw-in in that deal. Ba-DUMP!!

G-Fafif Jan 10 2023 06:28 AM Re: Non-NYM winter 22/23 comings and goings

Johnny Cueto, around long enough to have pitched at Shea, signs with the Marlins.

Johnny Lunchbucket Jan 10 2023 07:15 AM Re: Non-NYM winter 22/23 comings and goings

=G-Fafif post_id=116422 time=1673357330 user_id=55] Johnny Cueto, around long enough to have pitched at Shea, signs with the Marlins.

Good pickup for the Fish. Their staff could help them hang around.

Frayed Knot Jan 19 2023 04:11 PM Re: Non-NYM winter 22/23 comings and goings

Looks like Aroldis Chapman will be a KCR for the coming season.

bmfc1 Jan 20 2023 12:59 PM Re: Non-NYM winter 22/23 comings and goings

The Marlins have traded for AL Batting Champion Luis Arraez (they sent Pablo Lopez to Correa-Town). Between Arraez, Segura, and Chisholm, MIA is going to be a tough opponent this season.

Johnny Lunchbucket Jan 20 2023 02:34 PM Re: Non-NYM winter 22/23 comings and goings

We play them early, then six times in mid-September

Edgy MD Jan 20 2023 03:37 PM Re: Non-NYM winter 22/23 comings and goings

I feel like I've mentally consigned Johnny Cueto to the "Finished" pile for a decade now. Every time I see him, he looks labored and possibly pitching through an injury. He's proven me wrong over and over, though.

smg58 Feb 12 2023 09:19 AM Re: Non-NYM winter 22/23 comings and goings

Andrew Chafin, the best lefty reliever on the market this offseason, gets one year and $6.25M guaranteed from the D-Backs, with a team option for 2024. And this is why you wait to sign relievers. I hope we're in on Matt Moore at this price.