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Carlos Beltran and other Hall of Fame candidates


Scott Rolen 7 votes

Todd Helton 8 votes

Billy Wagner 8 votes

Andruw Jones 8 votes

Garry Sheffield 7 votes

Alex Rodriguez 8 votes

Jeff Kent 7 votes

Manny Ramirez 7 votes

Omar Vizquel 2 votes

Andy Pettitte 1 votes

Jimmy Rollins 0 votes

Bobby Abreu 3 votes

Mark Bueherle 1 votes

Torii Hunter 1 votes

Carlos Beltran 11 votes

John Lackey 0 votes

Jered Weaver 0 votes

Jacoby Ellsbury 0 votes

Matt Cain 0 votes

Jhonny Peralta 0 votes

Jayson Werth 0 votes

R.A. Dickey 1 votes

Francisco Rodriquez 1 votes

Andre Ethier 1 votes

Huston Street 0 votes

Marshmallowmilkshake
Nov 27 2022 07:19 PM

Carlos Beltran leads the list of newcomers to the Hall of Fame ballot, with lots of other Met connections.



Billy Wagner (eighth year)

Gary Sheffield (ninth year)

Jeff Kent (final year)

Bobby Abreu (fourth year)

R.A. Dickey (first year)

Francisco Rodriguez (first year)



Scott Rolen, in his sixth year, has to climb from 63.2 percent to 75. That's a pretty big jump, but the ballot has opened up a little with some big names dropping off last year. I think he, Todd Helton, and Wagner get within striking distance, but still fall short.



We'll see if Beltran in penalized for the trash cans.



Poll was limited to 25 names, so I took off J.J. Hardy, Bronson Arroyo, and Mike Napoli, thinking they were one-and-done guys.

Edgy MD
Nov 27 2022 10:53 PM
Re: Carlos Beltran and other Hall of Fame candidates

Lotta Charlie Manuel-era Phils.

Ceetar
Nov 28 2022 09:44 AM
Re: Carlos Beltran and other Hall of Fame candidates

Of those guys, Beltran is in my hall. Wagner too, and A-Rod, and Helton. Probably Manny. would have to do a little more research in some of the others, but might be a few others.

kcmets
Nov 28 2022 09:50 AM
Re: Carlos Beltran and other Hall of Fame candidates

Andy Pettitte hahaha...



I just coughed up some undigested cashews from Thursday afternoon

thinking that he's even mentioned in a candidate conversation.

Benjamin Grimm
Nov 28 2022 09:55 AM
Re: Carlos Beltran and other Hall of Fame candidates

I'm a "small Hall" kind of guy, so there's no way I would vote for ten players. I'd vote for Beltran. The rest of the players, I don't know. They all started their careers after I dialed back the amount of attention I pay to baseball so I'm not informed enough to know who should be in and who should be out. Maybe Wagner. Not K-Rod or A-Rod or Dickey.

Frayed Knot
Jan 24 2023 04:28 PM
Re: Carlos Beltran and other Hall of Fame candidates

SCOTT ROLEN !!!!





Todd Helton was 2nd but just a few ticks shy for induction.

MFS62
Jan 24 2023 04:52 PM
Re: Carlos Beltran and other Hall of Fame candidates

Frayed Knot wrote:

SCOTT ROLEN !!!!




He never led his league in any of the traditional counting stat categories, nor did he get a single vote from the CPF.

Those two things aren't related, but I thought it was interesting.



Later

Marshmallowmilkshake
Jan 24 2023 06:13 PM
Re: Carlos Beltran and other Hall of Fame candidates

Rolen and Fred McGriff going in together!

roger_that
Jan 24 2023 06:23 PM
Re: Carlos Beltran and other Hall of Fame candidates

Rolen, Rolen, Rolen,

Keep those doggies movin'

Rawhide!

nymr83
Jan 24 2023 07:00 PM
Re: Carlos Beltran and other Hall of Fame candidates

I'm sad that RA Dickey dropped off the ballot

Frayed Knot
Jan 24 2023 08:31 PM
Re: Carlos Beltran and other Hall of Fame candidates

=roger_that post_id=117246 time=1674609830 user_id=128]
Rolen, Rolen, Rolen,

Keep those doggies movin'

Rawhide!



You are officially old.

metirish
Jan 25 2023 05:55 AM
Re: Carlos Beltran and other Hall of Fame candidates

[TWEET]https://twitter.com/TheAthletic/status/1618035064453107712[/TWEET]

I guess I'm curious how Helton didn't get in but Rolen did ? Anyway he's probably a lock next year..

Frayed Knot
Jan 25 2023 06:55 AM
Re: Carlos Beltran and other Hall of Fame candidates

=metirish post_id=117258 time=1674651347 user_id=72]
I guess I'm curious how Helton didn't get in but Rolen did ? Anyway he's probably a lock next year..



Coors Field factor.

Just 11 votes shy this time around, Helton's future indeed looks rosy.

I'm a bit more surprised by Andruw ahead of Beltran.

Jones's career fell off a cliff past age 30 both in terms of playing time and production.

metirish
Jan 25 2023 07:40 AM
Re: Carlos Beltran and other Hall of Fame candidates

Right, Beltran paying the price , surely a lock before the cheating , biggest question used to be what hat he would wear.

vtmet7
Jan 25 2023 12:49 PM
Re: Carlos Beltran and other Hall of Fame candidates

=nymr83 post_id=117247 time=1674612049 user_id=54]
I'm sad that RA Dickey dropped off the ballot



I'm sad that Rolen is in, yet Keith Hernandez will never be...

MFS62
Jan 25 2023 01:27 PM
Re: Carlos Beltran and other Hall of Fame candidates

When Rolen was playing, if you had asked me to name the 5 (10?) best active players, I might never have thought of Rolen. Maybe it was because he played for teams I really disliked.

But his career counting stats are very similar to those of Ken Boyer, Ron Santo and even Brooks Robinson.

And, like Robinson, was a multi-time gold glove winner.(yeah, I know)

So I guess if they are in the Hall, why not Rolen?

But I think Kent and Helton should have joined him.



Later

vtmet7
Jan 25 2023 01:36 PM
Re: Carlos Beltran and other Hall of Fame candidates

except, Brooks Robinson got in for his defense moreso than his offense...plus, the Orioles were in the playoffs 6 years, when only 4 teams made the playoffs & he was a pretty big influence on the team's results...



Rolen wasn't in Brooks' class defensively, and his offense wouldn't have gotten him in as a Left Fielder or a first baseman in a better class of candidates..



While Rolen has better power numbers than Keith, Keith was a better hitter overall and an exceptional defensive player...

When you think of the best defensive infielders of your lifetime, I think:

1B: Keith;

SS: Ozzie;

3B: Brooks;

C: Pudge/Yadier;

P: Gregg Maddux;

2B: ?

A Boy Named Seo
Jan 25 2023 01:51 PM
Re: Carlos Beltran and other Hall of Fame candidates


except, Brooks Robinson got in for his defense moreso than his offense...plus, the Orioles were in the playoffs 6 years, when only 4 teams made the playoffs & he was a pretty big influence on the team's results...



Rolen wasn't in Brooks' class defensively, and his offense wouldn't have gotten him in as a Left Fielder or a first baseman in a better class of candidates..



While Rolen has better power numbers than Keith, Keith was a better hitter overall and an exceptional defensive player...

When you think of the best defensive infielders of your lifetime, I think:

1B: Keith;

SS: Ozzie;

3B: Brooks;

C: Pudge/Yadier;

P: Gregg Maddux;

2B: ?


Damn, Rolen and Keith were surprisingly (to me) two great comps, with almost identical games played, PAs and ABs. Rolen earned about 20 more dWAR than Keith, though, proving that being even the very best first defensive first baseman probably needs to come with 300 homers or 3000 hits if you wanna get your Hall pass.

G-Fafif
Jan 25 2023 02:22 PM
Re: Carlos Beltran and other Hall of Fame candidates

I saw Rolen choke off a rally in late August of 2001 and then hit an 11th-inning home run to altogether foil the Mets as they otherwise rose from their seasonlong doldrums to almost purloin the division title. That game and the two Brian Jordan Games added up to the difference between those Mets' forgotten third-place finish and the potential one-game playoff vs the Braves which would have had America flocking to the Mets' cause, a run that would be praised far and wide to this day for lifting a city and a nation in the wake of its darkest hour had it succeeded.



Instead, Rolen dives and grabs a sure Shinjo double with the bases loaded, throws out Piazza at the plate and we end up hearing about fucking Mr. November for the rest of time.



Congratulations nonetheless, Scott.

MFS62
Jan 25 2023 02:37 PM
Re: Carlos Beltran and other Hall of Fame candidates

=vtmet7 post_id=117291 time=1674678996 user_id=80]


When you think of the best defensive infielders of your lifetime, I think:

1B: Keith;

SS: Ozzie;

3B: Brooks;

C: Pudge/Yadier;

P: Gregg Maddux;

2B: ?



My lifetime? The 2B is Bill Mazeroski!

No hesitation. No doubt.

Later

Frayed Knot
Jan 25 2023 03:20 PM
Re: Carlos Beltran and other Hall of Fame candidates

I thought in your lifetime it was Eddie Collins











The very tiny bit I saw of MLBN last night included showing where Rolen's career WAR set him among all 3rd basemen (9th I think it was, or maybe higher) and then show the guys who were at the same level for career WAR at each of the other positions.

Every one of the others was a HoF'er

Edgy MD
Jan 25 2023 03:31 PM
Re: Carlos Beltran and other Hall of Fame candidates

Yeah, third base has historically something of a shortage in HoF representation, I think. I imagine that Adrian Beltre is going to be a first ballot guy.

nymr83
Jan 25 2023 03:41 PM
Re: Carlos Beltran and other Hall of Fame candidates

=MFS62 post_id=117299 time=1674682675 user_id=60]
=vtmet7 post_id=117291 time=1674678996 user_id=80]


When you think of the best defensive infielders of your lifetime, I think:

1B: Keith;

SS: Ozzie;

3B: Brooks;

C: Pudge/Yadier;

P: Gregg Maddux;

2B: ?



My lifetime? The 2B is Bill Mazeroski!

No hesitation. No doubt.

Later


I'm not as old as you. I do in fact think of Scott Rolen as one of the best defenders I've seen.



C: Pudge, Yadier F. Molina

1B: Grace, Olerud

2B:

SS: Smith, Ordonez, Vizquel

3B: Rolen, Beltre



i cant think of a 2B who really stands out. Utley maybe?

Edgy MD
Jan 25 2023 04:36 PM
Re: Carlos Beltran and other Hall of Fame candidates

Jose Lind? Doug Flynn? Robbie Alomar when not a Met?



Frank White, Bobby Grich, and Lou Whitaker are up there, and those last two should totally be Holla Famers.



As much as folks raved about Ryne Sandberg, I really didn't like the way he played.

MFS62
Jan 25 2023 04:43 PM
Re: Carlos Beltran and other Hall of Fame candidates

Edgy MD wrote:

Jose Lind? Doug Flynn? Robbie Alomar when not a Met?



Frank White, Bobby Grich, and Lou Whitaker are up there, and those last two should totally be Holla Famers.



As much as folks raved about Ryne Sandberg, I really didn't like the way he played.


Felix Millan was pretty good with a glove, too.

Later

MFS62
Jan 25 2023 04:47 PM
Re: Carlos Beltran and other Hall of Fame candidates

Frayed Knot wrote:

I thought in your lifetime it was Eddie Collins




Does the CPF have a Human Resources department?

That's age harassment.

I'm turning your arse IN!

LOL!



Later

nymr83
Jan 25 2023 05:09 PM
Re: Carlos Beltran and other Hall of Fame candidates

Edgy MD wrote:

Jose Lind? Doug Flynn? Robbie Alomar when not a Met?



Frank White, Bobby Grich, and Lou Whitaker are up there, and those last two should totally be Holla Famers.



As much as folks raved about Ryne Sandberg, I really didn't like the way he played.




I have no real memory of Lind or Flynn. I did think of pre met Alomar, but he really stunk the joint up in queens too much for me to name him.



Most of my baseball memory is 1994 to the 2005. Post 2005 is shakier as life has been busier and MLB isn't number one in importance anymore

vtmet7
Jan 25 2023 05:57 PM
Re: Carlos Beltran and other Hall of Fame candidates

By the way, my name is not Bob... however it looks like Bob wrote an article today saying that Keith belongs in the HOF.



https://www.nj.com/yankees/2023/01/the-six-yankees-and-mets-who-should-be-in-cooperstown-klapisch.html

kcmets
Jan 25 2023 06:30 PM
Re: Carlos Beltran and other Hall of Fame candidates

=MFS62 post_id=117314 time=1674690457 user_id=60]Does the CPF have a Human Resources department?



Stockholm bureaucracy, good luck with that!!

MFS62
Jan 27 2023 03:23 PM
Re: Carlos Beltran and other Hall of Fame candidates

Jeff Kent isn't happy:



https://nypost.com/2023/01/25/jeff-kent-blames-non-voting-stat-folks-as-hall-of-fame-dream-ends/


“The voting over the years has been too much of a head-scratching embarrassment,” Kent told he San Francisco Chronicle in a text.



“Baseball is losing a couple generations of great players that were the best in their era because a couple non-voting stat folks keep comparing those players to players already voted in from generations past and are influencing the votes.”


Later

Edgy MD
Jan 27 2023 03:46 PM
Re: Carlos Beltran and other Hall of Fame candidates

Jeff Kent is a strong candidate from where I sit, but his position sure reads like sour grapes to me. Who or what are "non-voting stat folks" that "keep comparing those players to players already voted in from generations past"?



Also, it's highly misleading to write that Kent "racked up 377 home runs (most all-time for a second baseman)." He hit 351 homers as a secondbaseman, 17 as a thirdbaseman, seven as a firstbaseman, one as a shortstop, and one as a designated hitter. It's a perfectly impressive amount without distorting the record.



The next highest, Robbie Canó, has 316 as a secondbaseman, and he clearly cheated, so it's not like 351 isn't plenty.