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Last Shortstop Standing

Edgy MD Dec 12 2022 11:22 AM

Two Questions: 1. If you're a team in the market for a shortstop, and you came up empty on Xander Bogaerts and Trea Turner (perhaps because you had problems putting their vowels in the right place), are you going harder after Dansby Swanson right now, or Carlos Correa? 2. Do you think anyone is looking at Luís Guillorme as a potential regular?

Johnny Lunchbucket Dec 12 2022 11:24 AM Re: Last Shortstop Standing

I think maybe they would. I was thinking the Mets should get Jean Segura as an unconventional DH/infield reserve but I prefer Guillorme

A Boy Named Seo Dec 12 2022 11:32 AM Re: Last Shortstop Standing

I'd put Correa a full notch or two above Dansby. I guess I'd consider Guillorme as a regular, but it would only be if my team was already pretty wonderful up and the down the lineup. If his on-basing takes a step back, you've got a bench player starting.

Frayed Knot Dec 12 2022 12:45 PM Re: Last Shortstop Standing

Both Correa and Swanson are former 1/1 draft picks (2012 & 2015). I was thinking that Dansby, the college boy, was older and he is but only by months. I guess I forgot to factor in the Braves' quick promotion tendencies and should have realized that they can get six-plus seasons out of a college draftee and still see him hit FA-gency before turning 29 (Feb '23) That the Yanx somewhat surprisingly re-upped IKF right about the same time as Rizzo took them (seemingly) out of the SS Sweepstakes in which most expected them to be a major player.

Frayed Knot Dec 13 2022 11:37 AM Re: Last Shortstop Standing

Danby Swanson apparently just got married (to USWNT player Mallory Pugh ... quick, draft their kids for whatever sport you want) so maybe that's part of what's delaying his FA negotiations.

A Boy Named Seo Dec 13 2022 11:46 AM Re: Last Shortstop Standing

Frayed Knot wrote: Danby Swanson apparently just got married (to USWNT player Mallory Pugh ... quick, draft their kids for whatever sport you want) so maybe that's part of what's delaying his FA negotiations. I wonder if Nomar and Mia Hamm had any athletic offspring?

Centerfield Dec 13 2022 11:51 AM Re: Last Shortstop Standing

A Boy Named Seo wrote: Frayed Knot wrote: Danby Swanson apparently just got married (to USWNT player Mallory Pugh ... quick, draft their kids for whatever sport you want) so maybe that's part of what's delaying his FA negotiations. I wonder if Nomar and Mia Hamm had any athletic offspring? Twin daughters and a younger son. Probably got scholarship offers in pre-school.

G-Fafif Dec 13 2022 08:34 PM Re: Last Shortstop Standing

A surprising new team has emerged in the Carlos Correa sweepstakes — or maybe not so surprising, considering the amount of money the New York Mets already have spent this offseason. Yes, Steve Cohen might be at again. Cohen's Mets are showing interest in Correa, according to sources familiar with the team's thinking. Correa, 28, likely would play third base for the Mets, alongside his fellow native of Puerto Rico, shortstop Francisco Lindor. “I'd say there's some smoke,” one Mets person said. “I'm not sure how big the fire is, though.” Mets general manager Billy Eppler declined comment. While a full-blown pursuit of Correa might feel like a stretch, given the size of Correa's expected payday and the expenditures already lavished out by the Mets this winter, Cohen has already expanded the parameters of what it is possible for an owner to spend. https://theathletic.com/4000022/2022/12/13/mets-free-agent-news-carlos-correa/

Lefty Specialist Dec 13 2022 09:09 PM Re: Last Shortstop Standing

Feels like a stretch is right. Seems more like the typical Boras 'mystery dark horse team' that he floats with the writers to get his paydays up. Correa would have play third with the Mets. Some team will severely overpay him to be a shortstop.

Marshmallowmilkshake Dec 13 2022 09:22 PM Re: Last Shortstop Standing

I think agents are going to leak that the Mets are interested to drive up prices whether the Mets are interested or not.

G-Fafif Dec 13 2022 09:51 PM Re: Last Shortstop Standing

[tweet]https://twitter.com/jeffpassan/status/1602887992313626625[/tweet]

vtmet7 Dec 13 2022 09:57 PM Re: Last Shortstop Standing

I don't know what to say to that...seems like an overpay to me

batmagadanleadoff Dec 13 2022 11:23 PM Re: Last Shortstop Standing

You have to factor in inflation, increasing revenue streams and the ever-increasing value of the franchises themselves when considering these long-term contracts for the best baseball players. These players will surely decline by the end of their contracts, but given the financial climate that would likely exist 13 years from now, their contracts would be - relatively -- much cheaper than they appear today. At this rate, 13 years from now, the top players will be making $80M a year or so. The AAV of Correa's new contract is about $26M. That would rank him at about the 25th or 26th highest paid baseball player for next season. He signed a 13 year contract. 13 years ago, in 2009, the 26th highest paid player, Albert Pujols, (StL) earned $14.4M. So salaries, at least for the very best players, have just about doubled over the last 13 years or so. The teams aren't stupid and they're surrounded by financial experts, the very best. They wouldn't be offering these contracts if they couldn't afford them. And if revenues continue to increase, the Union will insist on higher and higher salary caps. BTW, the highest paid player over the last 20 or so seasons, relative to what everybody else was making, I think, was A-Rod, when he signed with Texas and eventually had the Yankees pick up the remainder of that contract when he was traded. I think that the A-ROd contract was and remains the largest outlier of a contract over that span.

Lefty Specialist Dec 14 2022 12:09 AM Re: Last Shortstop Standing

Boy, 13 years is a long time. He'll be 41. I have to assume there's an opt-out in there somewhere, no?

Frayed Knot Dec 14 2022 04:46 AM Re: Last Shortstop Standing

=batmagadanleadoff post_id=114757 time=1670998982 user_id=68] BTW, the highest paid player over the last 20 or so seasons, relative to what everybody else was making, I think, was A-Rod, when he signed with Texas and eventually had the Yankees pick up the remainder of that contract when he was traded. I think that the A-ROd contract was and remains the largest outlier of a contract over that span.

No, the Yanquis picked up a portion of the remaining contract, Texas had to kick in a sizable chunk of it [more or less three of the remaining seven years' worth IIRC] in order for the

Yanx to agree to the deal. Prior to that ARod was headed to Boston but they were unable to complete the transaction because the Sox also were only willing to take on a certain amount

and the players union wouldn't give their approval to a deal which they felt reduced overall size of the package (through deferrals or whatnot).



Point is: yes that contract was an outlier at the time to the point where the team that signed it and the two teams most in position to take it on thought the remainder was way over-

priced 30% of the way into it. Rodriguez did then opt out after year seven (famously in the middle of a World Series game) at which point the Yanx, mainly the late Hank Steinbrenner

and reportedly against the advice of his front office, decided that he was now worth a new and very similar deal to the original one, a decision the Yanx would eventually regret.





But I think the over-riding idea with some of these new contracts signed recently isn't the money it's the length. It's like the Albert Pujols/Miguel Cabrera examples are being ignored

or are already forgotten.

nymr83 Dec 14 2022 06:07 AM Re: Last Shortstop Standing

[tweet]https://twitter.com/jeffpassan/status/1602887992313626625[/tweet] Passan, or someone else, broke this on ESPN around midnight last night. Yet the athletic article was still posted this morning. oops! But hey, this is part of the joy of being a fan of Steve Cohen's Mets! we're in on everyone!

metirish Dec 14 2022 06:14 AM Re: Last Shortstop Standing

Lefty Specialist wrote: Boy, 13 years is a long time. He'll be 41. I have to assume there's an opt-out in there somewhere, no? No opt outs apparently

MFS62 Dec 14 2022 06:23 AM Re: Last Shortstop Standing

One Correa point for 'Thon in our FA contest. Later

Frayed Knot Dec 14 2022 07:19 AM Re: Last Shortstop Standing

Sometimes the market, or at least the preception about the market, seems to shift in fits and starts. Keep in mind that when Correa first became a FA he settled on a short term deal with the Twins. Now, two years older, he scores one for 13 freakin' years with a (theoretically) better club. And, yeah, Covid was likely a factor for the earlier go around ... but still!

Frayed Knot Dec 14 2022 08:59 AM Re: Last Shortstop Standing

So, assuming that Stevie allowed Billy to kick the tires on Correa as a 3B-man (I'm dubious as to the seriousness of that attempt, but let's play along for now), what's to prevent him from doing the same with Swanson? Sign him NOW!!!! Steve In all seriousness, I'm not even sure who's still looking for, and can also pay top dollar for, a SS at this point. All of which makes me think that Swanson's return to Atlanta is the likely outcome. It also makes me wonder who the Giants thought they were bidding against to get them to ink Correa for a baker's dozen.

metsmarathon Dec 14 2022 09:10 AM Re: Last Shortstop Standing

if i'm reading the market right - and my performance in the FA contest is surely an indicator that i'm probably not - i think the twins and cubs are very much capable of landing swanson. i feel like boston should probably be in on him too, but i don't think even they know what the hell they're even doing. maybe atlanta is playing super-coy, but i don't think they're actually in on him, unless he really, really doesn't like getting over-paid.

Edgy MD Dec 14 2022 09:13 AM Re: Last Shortstop Standing

Dansby Swanson is a fantastic name if you imagine hearing it yelled in a Bostonian accent. As for the length of these deals, I get the notion that, to the mindset of teams, length is just a way to defer salary. If I want a guy at $100 million over four years, but that's not getting it done, I can up the salary offer or I can go to, like, $140 million over seven. Most of that additional money is still for those first four years, but I get to hold on to it and let it make money for me in municipal bonds or pharmaceutical futures or whatever. If he still has something left in the last three years of that contract, good for us.

nymr83 Dec 14 2022 10:32 AM Re: Last Shortstop Standing

Edgy MD wrote: Dansby Swanson is a fantastic name if you imagine hearing it yelled in a Bostonian accent. As for the length of these deals, I get the notion that, to the mindset of teams, length is just a way to defer salary. If I want a guy at $100 million over four years, but that's not getting it done, I can up the salary offer or I can go to, like, $140 million over seven. Most of that additional money is still for those first four years, but I get to hold on to it and let it make money for me in municipal bonds or pharmaceutical futures or whatever. If he still has something left in the last three years of that contract, good for us. Looking to invest? Wilpon knows a guy...

Frayed Knot Dec 15 2022 07:35 PM Re: Last Shortstop Standing

More Hey Man!: Swanson's new wife plies her trade in Chicago. Might that give an in to the Cubs? They were bad in '22 but over .500 in second half so maybe thinking they're nearly back? LAD (just lost T. Turner) and Sawx (Bogaerts) also in on the Dansby sweepstakes. Braves still in though "cautious".

Edgy MD Dec 15 2022 08:06 PM Re: Last Shortstop Standing

It's raised a lot of eyebrows that the Braves have been really sitting out this offseason. But folks gots to recall the context is that the Braves have been locking up very young players with pre-arb extensions in the last year.

metirish Dec 17 2022 02:35 PM Re: Last Shortstop Standing Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Dec 17 2022 02:36 PM

Swanson to the Cubs , Passan on it ,says Dave Kaplan first, details to come

Johnny Lunchbucket Dec 17 2022 02:36 PM Re: Last Shortstop Standing

7x177

Edgy MD Dec 17 2022 02:36 PM Re: Last Shortstop Standing

metirish 1st!!

metirish Dec 17 2022 02:42 PM Re: Last Shortstop Standing

Bucket first with the details A fine player 7/177 fine? I guess that's like a good deal nowadays

MFS62 Dec 17 2022 02:44 PM Re: Last Shortstop Standing

And no Swanson points in our FA contest. Later

Lefty Specialist Dec 17 2022 04:39 PM Re: Last Shortstop Standing

Cubs still suck, though.

Frayed Knot Dec 17 2022 04:58 PM Re: Last Shortstop Standing

It must be frustrating at times to Braves' fans that Atlanta is so comfortable in not going above their self-imposed ceiling even when it means losing home-grown All-Star fan favorites [Freddie and now Dansby ... not to mention Andruw, McCann, and Francouer of eras past]. But the seemingly ridiculous ease in which the team then pivots to a usually successful Plan B must ease the heartache a bit.

smg58 Dec 18 2022 06:26 AM Re: Last Shortstop Standing

Frayed Knot wrote: But the seemingly ridiculous ease in which the team then pivots to a usually successful Plan B must ease the heartache a bit. Yeah, they do this a lot. Even with the catcher trade, it looks like they gave up a lot for the difference between Sean Murphy and William Contreras, but they usually know something I don't. I'm not really sure what the plan B is here, though.

Fman99 Dec 18 2022 10:08 AM Re: Last Shortstop Standing

He's a .255 career hitter with one Gold Glove award and not a single MVP top 10 performance in his career. Seems like a butt ton of money to me.

Edgy MD Dec 18 2022 10:52 AM Re: Last Shortstop Standing

He certainly chose the right year in which to have his best season.

Frayed Knot Dec 18 2022 05:41 PM Re: Last Shortstop Standing

Edgy MD wrote: He certainly chose the right year in which to have his best season. Yup. He did fade down the stretch though, possibly due to playing every game as he has over the past three seasons. Sometimes the best ability is availability.

metirish Dec 20 2022 01:54 PM Re: Last Shortstop Standing

The SF Giants postponed the Correa presser today after a medical concern arose during his physical https://apnews.com/article/mlb-sports-los-angeles-angels-houston-astros-dodgers-7eabd5d9a1980cb33a1c754938c41a53?utm_campaign=SocialFlow&utm_source=Twitter&utm_medium=AP_Sports

Edgy MD Dec 20 2022 02:12 PM Re: Last Shortstop Standing

That'll teach them to try to kick Brandon Crawford to the curb.

Benjamin Grimm Dec 20 2022 02:32 PM Re: Last Shortstop Standing

This will be interesting. Has something like this happened before, where a free agent signing was delayed or overturned by the results of a physical? It seems familiar, but I might be thinking of the trade for Carlos Gomez that the Mets backed out of in 2015.

G-Fafif Dec 20 2022 03:49 PM Re: Last Shortstop Standing

Yorvit Torrealba (not Yorvit Potter) was all but announced in the 2007-08 offseason until the formality of a physical got murky. Hope you didn't buy a Yorvit Torrealba jersey. (And maybe, just maybe, don't retire that Paul Lo Duca jersey just yet.) After agreeing on the finances of a three-year, $14.4 million deal with the free-agent catcher Torrealba, the Mets abruptly pulled out Saturday. The team offered no explanation. The lone remaining hurdle to complete the agreement had been passing a physical. "We do not have an agreement with Yorvit Torrealba and there are no ongoing negotiations with him or his agent," Mets spokesman Jay Horwitz said. Melvin Roman, Torrealba's agent, declined to comment. The catcher's reps were already believed to be back in contact with Colorado GM Dan O'Dowd last night trying to reengage the Rockies, who had offered a two-year contract with a vesting option. The Mets also had outbid the Marlins for Torrealba. Torrealba had battled a sore shoulder the past two seasons, which accounted for a low percentage of runners caught. https://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/mets/mets-deal-yorvit-torrealba-dead-article-1.258613

G-Fafif Dec 21 2022 09:26 AM Re: Last Shortstop Standing

A surprising new team has emerged in the Carlos Correa sweepstakes — or maybe not so surprising, considering the amount of money the New York Mets already have spent this offseason. Yes, Steve Cohen might be at again. Cohen's Mets are showing interest in Correa, according to sources familiar with the team's thinking. Correa, 28, likely would play third base for the Mets, alongside his fellow native of Puerto Rico, shortstop Francisco Lindor. “I'd say there's some smoke,” one Mets person said. “I'm not sure how big the fire is, though.” Mets general manager Billy Eppler declined comment. While a full-blown pursuit of Correa might feel like a stretch, given the size of Correa's expected payday and the expenditures already lavished out by the Mets this winter, Cohen has already expanded the parameters of what it is possible for an owner to spend. https://theathletic.com/4000022/2022/12/13/mets-free-agent-news-carlos-correa/ Not so crazy after all.

MFS62 Dec 21 2022 09:54 AM Re: Last Shortstop Standing

I remember when all-everything defensive end Reggie White held a press conference to say he was signing with the Jets, then got on a plane to Green Bay and signed with the Packers. It feels good when you're on the other side of those things. Later