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The Fascination with Kevin Elster

ScarletKnight41 May 03 2006 06:49 AM

Yancy Street Gang said - ]I don't understand the fascination with Kevin Elster, but that's for another thread, I guess. Something about Yancy's statement appealed to me in my precaffienated state. So here's the thread - discuss!

Elster88 May 03 2006 06:52 AM

From the PotG thread regarding my fascination with Mr. Elster: Elster88 wrote: [My] fascination is not from his appearance. The fascination is from 88 games, which was huge to me growing up as a shortstop, even though he couldn't hit a lick. The urban legend of Elster stealing other players' ladies was hilarious to me back then too, and is why I joke about his looks. Wrapping that all together is how he became my favorite player back then. I don't think anyone else is particularly fascinated with him.

ScarletKnight41 May 03 2006 06:59 AM

Probably not. But we can expand this into the strange fascination with players thread if anyone wants to jump in.

Edgy DC May 03 2006 07:06 AM

Elster was pissed that, even after his errorless games streak, he didn't get an endorsement deal from his glove company --- Rawlings, I think --- so he darkened in the logo.

Elster88 May 03 2006 07:08 AM

Chicks dig the long ball. Edit: I'm Gary Carter. Cute and cuddly if I've ever seen it.

cooby May 03 2006 07:10 AM

Gary Carter had the misfortune of playing for the Mets while Keith was there, so no women noticed him.

Edgy DC May 03 2006 07:11 AM

Everybody's mother and most everybody's grandmother loved Gary. He endorsed soap!

Elster88 May 03 2006 07:11 AM

Ronnie Darling was a favorite of the ladies in my household.

Benjamin Grimm May 03 2006 07:12 AM

My sister liked Danny Heep and Mike Fitzgerald.

HahnSolo May 03 2006 07:12 AM

I always got the impression, and maybe it's a little harsh, that Kevin Elster was more interested in winning the clubhouse Hearts games and scoring with the ladies than he ever was at improving himself at the plate.

Elster88 May 03 2006 07:14 AM

Coulda been. I didn't pay as much attention to that stuff when he was around. I always thought he just wasn't much of a hitter. He had the one good year with Texas.

ScarletKnight41 May 03 2006 07:19 AM

Elster88 wrote: Ronnie Darling was a favorite of the ladies in my household. Ah, Ron Darling. Looks. Brains. A World Series Ring. An All Star Ring. The complete package.

cooby May 03 2006 07:22 AM

Eh. Sid Fernandez, now he was cute. And cuddly. Mysterious. Exotic.

ScarletKnight41 May 03 2006 07:24 AM

cooby - I forgot to show you my photo of Sid from Spring Training 1985. He was positively slim.

cooby May 03 2006 07:27 AM

That's right! Is that the year he had to go back to AAA for a few weeks after spring training?

ScarletKnight41 May 03 2006 07:30 AM

I don't remember. I was living in Boston in 1985, so I'm fuzzy on a lot of the early season details.

Edgy DC May 03 2006 07:30 AM

More Elster talk. Less Darling talk.

cooby May 03 2006 07:31 AM

Sid

Edgy DC May 03 2006 07:40 AM

The Fascination with Sid Fernandez

Benjamin Grimm May 03 2006 07:43 AM

My sister hated Sid Fernandez. But she liked Rick Aguilera.

Edgy DC May 03 2006 07:45 AM

Did she frequently go for the bemulleted?

Benjamin Grimm May 03 2006 07:46 AM

Did Heep and Fitzgerald and Aguilera have mullets? I have to say I don't remember their hair styles at all. When I picture them they're wearing blue baseball caps.

Edgy DC May 03 2006 07:56 AM

Eighties Mets who wore their hair long in the back, even for a brief time, included Aggie, Darling, Dwight Gooden (the jeri-mullet), Roger McDowell (worse with the Phillies (below), and that's aobut all I've got for now.

Edgy DC May 03 2006 07:57 AM

In fairness, because baseball caps contain a player's front hair, it's not always easy to see what's a mullet and what's gen-u-inely long hair.

Edgy DC May 03 2006 08:00 AM

But I'm certain the 1994 Phils were as mulleted as any pennant winner ever. Ever.

Frayed Knot May 03 2006 08:01 AM

While I never had a "fascination" with Elster (I missed where this topic started) I did think the shoulder injury that derailed his nascent career was a very overlooked factor in the tailspin and decline of the early '90s Mets. Without a solid - even if light-hitting - shortstop they were forced to patch in a series of aging Tony Fernandez/Dick Schofield-types which saddled the lineup with an offensive black hole worse even than an Elster with merely modest progress could have provided.

ScarletKnight41 May 03 2006 08:07 AM

With respect to Rick Aguilera - when he came up, Bob Murphy kept referring to him as "The Brilliant Young Righthander." So throughout the rest of his career, Aguilera was always The Brilliant Young Righthander to D-Dad and me.

Benjamin Grimm May 03 2006 08:08 AM

Good ol' Bob Murphy.

Willets Point May 03 2006 08:40 AM

Elster88 wrote: Ronnie Darling was a favorite of the ladies in my household. In my junior high school the boys were split between Mets and Yankees, but all the girls were Mets fans and Ron Darling was a major factor.

soupcan May 03 2006 10:12 AM

I go back to days of Lee Mazzilli and Bucky Dent fighting for the hearts of the junior high/high school chicks.

soupcan May 03 2006 10:15 AM

Oh - I got an Elster memory! Some game in the 90's Elster won with a walk-off homerun. The vendors who were always outside the stadium hawking their counterfeit merchandise were out again and enjoying the purchasing power of the happy crowd. One vendor understood the mood better than the rest and instead of just trying to sell 'Mets hats' he was shouting 'Elstah hats! Get your game-winnin' Elstah hats!'

cooby May 03 2006 02:23 PM

I hope you bought one

soupcan May 03 2006 02:25 PM

What am I - a rookie? Had one dude.

Willets Point May 03 2006 02:26 PM

Those guys must be related to the guys selling green carnations outside the Brooklyn Center for the Performing Arts when I was a kid going to see a performance by Tommy Makem and Liam Clancy. Their spiel, "Tommy make 'em, we sell 'em."

cooby May 03 2006 02:28 PM

dude? sheesh

Benjamin Grimm May 03 2006 03:06 PM

Dude looks like a lady.

HahnSolo May 04 2006 10:52 AM

Consideration the lack of posts in this thread about Kevin Elster, I guess there really is no "fascination with Kevin Elster."

Elster88 May 04 2006 10:54 AM

You may not be fascinated with him, but your girlfriend is.

Benjamin Grimm May 04 2006 11:13 AM

You mean my imaginary girlfriend who pees a lot?

Edgy DC May 04 2006 11:16 AM

]...my imaginary girlfriend who pees a lot New band name!

Benjamin Grimm May 04 2006 11:18 AM

I'm sure she'd be flattered!

cooby May 04 2006 11:46 AM

So how's the old cold-in-the-kidneys-girl doing, anyway? (Trying to give Yancy opportunities to post so he is done with Franco sooner. Or is that Willets that wanted that? I'm so confused....)

Benjamin Grimm May 04 2006 11:52 AM

It was me. I haven't seen her this week! Either they fired her for peeing too much or she's on vacation. Maybe she's peeing in Acapulco this week.

Willets Point May 04 2006 11:52 AM

I don't care about being Franco I just want to be something different from Willets. I mean Yancy! I'm so confused.

cooby May 04 2006 11:53 AM

Ew! In the ocean! I mean her peeing! Yancy's gf! Or Willets'...or SI's...or Franco's...I'm so confused

Benjamin Grimm May 04 2006 12:03 PM

I don't mind sharing her.

cooby May 04 2006 12:16 PM

You better keep that nasty kidney condition of hers under your hat then

Benjamin Grimm May 04 2006 12:18 PM

If I did that, I think I'd have to get a new hat.

G-Fafif May 04 2006 12:50 PM

It wasn't quite fascination, but my wife (then fiancee) labeled Kevin Elster "the cute one" in 1990.

Benjamin Grimm May 04 2006 12:59 PM

I thought that was Paul McCartney.

cooby May 04 2006 07:43 PM

That Craig Wilson is a doll. Last year, all that yellow hair was even longer Here's me and my sister with him...

Edgy DC May 04 2006 08:32 PM

Whoah.

ScarletKnight41 May 04 2006 08:37 PM

That doesn't look like you. Not at all.

Rockin' Doc May 04 2006 08:45 PM

I believe cooby's trying to fool us with her change up.

cooby May 04 2006 09:02 PM

lol, if my sister saw what I said she'd kill me

Elster88 Jun 06 2006 10:12 AM

Darling talked about Elster during the telecast yesterday. Said you could see the disappointment on his face every time they got off a plane to crappy weather. Called California "God's country to play baseball" or some such. Lives in Florida right now. Hasn't seen Darling in a few years, last saw him when he lived in Vegas. Edit: I'm Tug McGraw (RIP)

MFS62 Jun 06 2006 10:46 AM

Trying to describe the Elster fascination. IIRC he played in a cusp era when shortstop was transitioning from a purely defensive position (other than Ernie Banks) to a position where offense was becoming increasingly important. So when Kevin had 25 doubles, 10 dingers and 55 RBI in 1989 to go with his better than league average fielding percentage (The only defensive stat you had in those days) he was loooked upon as "something special". He never achieved those same numbers again, but fans kept hoping he would. Later

Elster88 Jun 06 2006 10:52 AM

MFS62 wrote: to go with his better than league average fielding percentage (The only defensive stat you had in those days) 88 games.

MFS62 Jun 06 2006 11:01 AM

Nope. In 1989, the year I mentioned, he played 150 games at short. Later

Benjamin Grimm Jun 06 2006 11:11 AM

I don't know about that, 62. By 1989, Cal Ripken and Alan Trammell had already been around for a long time. I don't recall ever being excited about Elster's bat. Or his glove, either.

Edgy DC Jun 06 2006 11:25 AM

]88 games. In full sentence-terms, Elster88 is referring to the then-record 88-game errorless streak Kevin Elster accomplished as a shortstop, which gives him his name.

MFS62 Jun 06 2006 11:27 AM

I was. After watching a bunch of guys play shortstop for the Mets who looked like the "before" in those body building ads, Elster was my hope that they would finally have someone who could begin to stack up offensively with the Ripkens and Trammels of the world. (And they were the exceptions at that time). Who knew that was going to be his peak? EDIT: Hojo had played shortstop, but he really wasn't a shortstop. Later

Edgy DC Jun 06 2006 11:32 AM

it wasn't actually his peak. He hit 24 homers in 1996 with Texas.

Elster88 Jun 06 2006 11:41 AM

In retrospect, did HoJo just not have the fielding prowress to play short every day? Or, since Knight left, was the logical choice just to put him at third and Elster at short, since putting Hojo at short would've left a hole at third? Would Kevin Mitchell have had the ability to play short every day, if he had stayed with the team? What's the proper capitalization of Hojo? I usually go with capital J.

MFS62 Jun 06 2006 11:42 AM

Edgy, thanks for reminding me of his Texas homers, and the 88 thing as well. I was being Metrocentric. Sorry, Elster88, I shoulda' remembered. mea culpa Later

Elster88 Jun 06 2006 11:45 AM

Edgy DC wrote: ]88 games. In full sentence-terms, Elster88 is referring to the then-record 88-game errorless streak Kevin Elster accomplished as a shortstop, which gives him his name. Has anyone wedged their way between Elster and Ordonez?

Edgy DC Jun 06 2006 11:48 AM

]In retrospect, did HoJo just not have the fielding prowress to play short every day? Or, since Knight left, was the logical choice just to put him at third and Elster at short, since putting Hojo at short would've left a hole at third? Mostly the former. Plus Elster was an excellent defender with an adequate bat. ] Would Kevin Mitchell have had the ability to play short every day, if he had stayed with the team? Now stop that. ]What's the proper capitalization of Hojo? I usually go with capital J. Me too. I wanted them to break in Jefferies and Elster in 1989 (Elster ahd already "broken" in 1988, I know) by trying a three-position platoon. Backman at second against lefties, with Jefferies at third and HoJo at short, and Elster at short agaist righties (and in defensive situations), wtih HoJo at third and Jefferies at second.

Elster88 Jun 06 2006 11:56 AM

]Now stop that. LOL. Seriously, was Mitchell good enough in the infield?

Edgy DC Jun 06 2006 12:00 PM

He was good enough to fake it. On occasion. With a flyball/strikeout pitcher on the mound. For the first seven innings. While he was young.

MFS62 Jun 06 2006 12:00 PM

Edgy, I always wondered why Jeffries, who had played shortstop in the minors wasn't at least given a chance to play short when he came up to the Mets. He had been minor league player of the year twice at that position. Elster wasn't the only shortstop who found power after leaving the Mets. Felix Mantila went on to have a 30HR, 90+ RBI year with the Bosox, followed up with a 19 or 20 HR year. Of course, hitting in Fenway is like hitting in Texas. The ushers hit 20 home runs in those parks. Yes, Johnson was a third baseman playing short. He didn't have the range to play there adequately. And I laughed out loud at your comment about Mitchell. Short, to the point, and very, very true. Later

Edgy DC Jun 06 2006 12:03 PM

]He had been minor league player of the year twice at that position. He was a minor-league player of the year as a hitter. As a shortstop, he had a prodigious error total. His play at every other postiion (not to mention Elster's play at short) should spell out why he wasn't used at shortstop.

MFS62 Jun 06 2006 12:04 PM

Elster88 wrote: ]Now stop that. LOL. Seriously, was Mitchell good enough in the infield? 6'5" 230 pound first baseman Pancho Hererra started and played several games at second base for the Phillies. But you had to cover the eyes of wimmins and chilluns when he did it. It was the same with Mitchell. He made Butch Huskey look like a polished infielder. Later

Benjamin Grimm Jun 06 2006 12:04 PM

Davey Johnson never seemed to care much about defense at short. Remember, he also played Hubie Brooks there. He wanted to get an extra bat in the lineup however he could. The previous manager, Bamberger (not counting the Frank Howard interregnum) tilted the other way. It's why Backman was buried and Brian Giles played instead. I can't remember now (without looking it up) whether Ron Gardenhire was one of the guys that Davey promoted or one of the ones he cast aside when he became manager. I do remember that he gave a second life to Kelvin Chapman.

Elster88 Jun 06 2006 12:04 PM

Elster88 wrote: ="Edgy DC"] ]88 games. In full sentence-terms, Elster88 is referring to the then-record 88-game errorless streak Kevin Elster accomplished as a shortstop, which gives him his name. Has anyone wedged their way between Elster and Ordonez? I have no idea even where to start looking this up.

Edgy DC Jun 06 2006 12:12 PM

I'm not sure what that means. But if I read you correctly, Cal Ripken broke Elster's record, and Ordoñez reclaimed it for the Mets. Somebody like Vizquel took it away again, I think. Gardenhose was buried neither by Bambi nor Davey, but by Hammie.

Benjamin Grimm Jun 06 2006 12:14 PM

I know I can look it up, but for the moment I won't... Who was Bamberger's shortstop with the Mets? Was it Gardenhire, or someone else I'm forgetting? As I type this, Jose Oquendo pops into my head.

Elster88 Jun 06 2006 12:17 PM

Edgy DC wrote: I'm not sure what that means. But if I read you correctly, Cal Ripken broke Elster's record, and Ordoñez reclaimed it for the Mets. Somebody like Vizquel took it away again, I think. Oh. I thought I had remembered Ordonez breaking Elster's mark when it was still Elster's. Musta been thinking of the NL record.

Elster88 Jun 06 2006 12:19 PM

Edgy, did you know that from memory? Since you aren't sure who has the record now you probably didn't find a helpful site.

Edgy DC Jun 06 2006 12:20 PM

During Gardy's extended absences, the Mets shortstop position was manned by.... He's a major league coach on the managerial track right now... Come on...

Edgy DC Jun 06 2006 12:22 PM

]Edgy, did you know that from memory? Since you aren't sure who has the record now you probably didn't find a helpful site. Memory. And, yes, it may be flawed.

Benjamin Grimm Jun 06 2006 12:28 PM

Edgy DC wrote: During Gardy's extended absences, the Mets shortstop position was manned by.... He's a major league coach on the managerial track right now... Come on... Jose Oquendo, right? I mentioned him above.

MFS62 Jun 06 2006 12:29 PM

My money's on Oquendo. Later

Edgy DC Jun 06 2006 12:29 PM

Yup. Oquendo pops into my head all the time.