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Sprung from Strength of Schedule

Elster88 May 01 2006 11:05 PM

rpackrat wrote: And, you base that on . . . what, exactly? His incrementally better park-adjusted ERA? His substantially worse H/IP and HR/9IP ratios? In fairness, Benson has some peripherals that are better than Z's (WHIP and K:BB ratio are both somewhat better). Point is, statistically, the 2 are virtually interchangeable except, as I noted above, Benson is older. Zambrano's biggest drawback is that we traded Scott Kazmir for him. Well let's get it on then. Pick a stat. Put your money where your mouth is. Or we can make it a gentleman's bet. Put nothing where your mouth is. Let's go. Bring the pain.

Elster88 May 04 2006 09:44 AM

Elster88 wrote: ="rpackrat"]And, you base that on . . . what, exactly? His incrementally better park-adjusted ERA? His substantially worse H/IP and HR/9IP ratios? In fairness, Benson has some peripherals that are better than Z's (WHIP and K:BB ratio are both somewhat better). Point is, statistically, the 2 are virtually interchangeable except, as I noted above, Benson is older. Zambrano's biggest drawback is that we traded Scott Kazmir for him. Well let's get it on then. Pick a stat. Put your money where your mouth is. Or we can make it a gentleman's bet. Put nothing where your mouth is. Let's go. Bring the pain. Wow, it got really quiet in here.

Nymr83 May 04 2006 10:16 PM

]Wow, it got really quiet in here. Thats what happens when you say you want to make a bet and the other guy suddenly reconsiders everything he has been saying.

rpackrat May 04 2006 10:58 PM

]Thats what happens when you say you want to make a bet and the other guy suddenly reconsiders everything he has been saying. That's also what happens when the other guy gets busy with little things like his job and his kids. Sorry I don't have the luxury of spending all my time here, but sometimes I have to tend to those other trivial matters -- we can't all be as lucky as you two (Elster88 and nymr) to have no serious responsibilities whatsoever. Anyway, Elster, I would think Zambrano's last outing -- on the very day you declared him dead weight, no less -- would have been enough to embarass you into silence, but that assumption clearly gives you more credit for maturity than you deserve. You want a bet? OK, let's say ERA+. My contention is that Benson and Zambrano will end up at about the same number (let's say within 3% of each other). What's your call? How much better will Benson's ERA+ be than Zambrano's, in your estimation? And what do I win when you are once again proven wrong?

Nymr83 May 04 2006 11:26 PM

]That's also what happens when the other guy gets busy with little things like his job and his kids. Sorry I don't have the luxury of spending all my time here, but sometimes I have to tend to those other trivial matters -- we can't all be as lucky as you two (Elster88 and nymr) to have no serious responsibilities whatsoever. Anyway, Elster, I would think Zambrano's last outing -- on the very day you declared him dead weight, no less -- would have been enough to embarass you into silence, but that assumption clearly gives you more credit for maturity than you deserve. To avoid getting this otherwise useful thread moved to the RLF i won't say what i'm really thinking, what i will say is that if anyone believes that one game proves or disproves questions about a player's abilities that person is a complete and total idiot.

Elster88 May 05 2006 09:00 AM

="rpackrat"] ]Thats what happens when you say you want to make a bet and the other guy suddenly reconsiders everything he has been saying. That's also what happens when the other guy gets busy with little things like his job and his kids. Sorry I don't have the luxury of spending all my time here, but sometimes I have to tend to those other trivial matters -- we can't all be as lucky as you two (Elster88 and nymr) to have no serious responsibilities whatsoever. Anyway, Elster, I would think Zambrano's last outing -- on the very day you declared him dead weight, no less -- would have been enough to embarass you into silence, but that assumption clearly gives you more credit for maturity than you deserve. You know, I had thought that the first argument we had was really all my fault, but maybe not. >>>Embarrass you into silence Yeah he did have one good game, that's very embarrassing with regards to my contention that Benson is a better pitcher. (SC = 100) If you'll take the time to read the entire thread, you'll also notice that I mentioned that Zambrano was making me eat my words. But that's probably giving you more credit for maturity than you deserve. And seeing as how trivial this forum is and how important the rest of your life is, I can see how you would miss it. >>>Sorry I don't have the luxury of spending all my time here, but sometimes I have to tend to those other trivial matters -- you two (Elster88 and nymr) to have no serious responsibilities whatsoever. That's true, anyone who posts on a message board and is surprised at the lack of a response must have no responsibilities. (SC = 100) My apologies for taking this trivial forum more seriously than you do. >>>clearly gives you more credit for maturity than you deserve. Don't be a jerk. My post was intended in a light-hearted manner. I thought that was pretty obvious. Maybe I will just start typing "j/k" in every post where I'm kidding around like I did when I was 16. It sucks when overly sensitive people get offended. And please address nymr and myself seperately. If you're pissed off at his comments don't take it out on me.

Nymr83 May 05 2006 01:01 PM

] It sucks when overly sensitive people get offended. Amen!!

Yancy Street Gang May 05 2006 01:14 PM

HEY!

rpackrat May 07 2006 02:42 PM

]You know, I had thought that the first argument we had was really all my fault, but maybe not. No, it was. As was this one. You consistently post snarky comments not only about players who you decide you don't like, but about any other poster who disagrees with you. Then you get offended and act like you're just joking when people take offense at your snark. That invites arguments, and I'm not the only one who has argued with you. It also doesn't help when your lapdog, nymr83, chimes in, but that's not your fault. And speaking of total idiots, nymr83, please tell me how VZ did in his lat dozen or so appearances last year. Please tell me how his career ERA+ compares to the league average. Please tell me how his ERA+ over the past 5 years or so comapres to Benson's, the point of comparison in this discussion. It's unfortunate: This used to be a nice place to come and talk Mets baseball. Since Elster and nymr came, the quality of discussion has really gone down the toilet. That's a big part of the reason I usually only come by around twice a week now, nut I probably won't drop by that often any more.

Nymr83 May 07 2006 02:45 PM

you're leaving would benefit this place alot. i'm not sure where you get your "lapdog" comments from as i've probably argued with elster wmore than any other poster, but hey i wouldn't expect you to know that because you're too busy for us remember? i have no intention of answering "serious" baseball questions when you ask them in the same post as your mindless drivel.

Elster88 May 07 2006 07:49 PM Edited 5 time(s), most recently on May 07 2006 08:36 PM

]No, it was. As was this one. You consistently post snarky comments not only about players who you decide you don't like, but about any other poster who disagrees with you. Actually, what happened in our first argument was you directed a smart ass remark at me, and I went over the top and responded with about 100x more sarcasm, and then you cried about it. After seeing your complaints, I felt bad for making you cry, and apologized. But looking back, the first one to get snippy was you. Pull it up, you'll see. And if you read this thread through again, you'll realize that nothing I said here was offensive. Maybe something Nymr said offended you, but until you got nasty with me, I can not figure out what I said that got your panties in a knot. ]Then you get offended and act like you're just joking when people take offense at your snark. However the expression goes, this is definitely the teapot calling the kettle black. Please try rereading my last post, and whichever one originally pissed you off....but without being sensitive this time. If you try, you may realize that you're getting upset over nothing. The only thing I see that I posted when we were discussing Zambrano/Benson that might have upset you was "It got quiet in here". Again....that is not something for you to be carrying on about. If you ignore the rest of this post, (the way you ignored 95% of my most recent post before this...and the way you ignored me pointing out that Zambrano performed superbly in a recent start...and the way you ignored about five other things that don't fit into your complaints), please explain what the hell you got upset about in the first place. ]Since Elster and nymr came, the quality of discussion has really gone down the toilet. For the second time, please address us seperately. He and I have nothing to do with each other, as he pointed out. ] That's a big part of the reason I usually only come by around twice a week now, nut I probably won't drop by that often any more. Oh darn. Hey wait a minute, I thought you had much more important matters to attend to then to waste your time posting here? Wasn't that the reason you were such an infrequent poster? Make up your mind.

Bret Sabermetric May 07 2006 08:06 PM

I don't understand why this thread hasn';t been moved to the RLF. It's got nastiness, personal remarks, bad language. Usually my threads get moved within minutes when I use any of those incendiary tactics, and I just don't understand what the---oh, wait a minute, I just got it. Sorry. Carry on.

Elster88 May 07 2006 08:09 PM

I was expecting that post out of you about 3 days ago, Bret. You're slipping.

Bret Sabermetric May 07 2006 10:09 PM

OK! All we needed to push this one over the edge was a quick cameo by yours truly. WTG, guys, demonstrating your underlying principle behind the Bret Lite forum. It's not really a nasty thread until I show up, now, is it?

Elster88 May 08 2006 08:51 AM

You complain that the thread hadn't been moved to the RLF. Then, once it is moved, you complain that it's moved becuase of your presence, and ignore the fact that it was your request only two posts ago. Either way you get to complain about something. Very impressive.

KC May 08 2006 09:06 AM

I don't read everything posted on the the forums. If any poster feels that something needs to be moved or dealt with a simple email or PM to one of us will get it done relatively quickly. Claims that there is a set policy of only moving Bret's stuff is pure unadulterated bullshit.

Elster88 May 08 2006 09:07 AM

Whoa. I am making no such claim.

KC May 08 2006 09:08 AM

Didn't say you did, read slower.

Elster88 May 08 2006 09:11 AM

Oh. Sorry.

Bret Sabermetric May 08 2006 10:08 AM

The time sigs don't lie. KC lies, Edgy lies, but not the time sigs. Check out the elapsed time between some of my postings and their appearance in the RLF. A matter of seconds most of the time. This one lasted for days, and then I show up and --poof! It's like magic. CF suggested I note the glaring hypocrisy as it occurs--that's what I'm doing here. Also, the policy is wildly inconsistent--WP claimed (in his explanation of how this was mostly his doing, after Edgy issued his hilariously pompous and inept policy statement that I quote from in my sig line) he swept the first few pages for offensive and personal threads, and just so happened to send 100% threads started by me here, in his impartial retrospective sweep. Somehow he didn't catch threads where I was the subject of abuse. I guess I've never been called any nasty names here, at least none nasty enough by their standards for names that appropriate to call me.

KC May 08 2006 10:13 AM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on May 08 2006 10:36 AM

I'm not lying, I wasn't aware of the bickering going on between those two. I'm not going to constantly defend every little thing that goes no here to you. You're are just being an abusive prick. Again.

KC May 08 2006 10:15 AM

And to those of you who defend Bret and applaud his presense, fuck you too.

KC May 08 2006 10:44 AM

How to stop being abusive Here are a new things you can do to stop being abusive or share with someone who is abusive or just might be. 1. Know that you can’t solve a problem by causing someone else problems because it only leads to a more problem filled world. 2. You can reenact past abusive situations in your head (imagination) and say what you really wanted to say and do what you really wanted to do when you felt abused. This will start part of the healing process. Make sure to learn what ever you can from it. 3. Realize the past can never change and that all you can really change is your Future and present. 4. When someone tells you that they feel hurt by you…ask why and listen. Then do your best not to do what ever hurt them (unless they absolutely deserve it & others agree they do). 5. Always avoid people who make you mad or annoy you. Sometimes abusers do things that will make you make you mad (even though they are not conscious of it) on purpose. They do this because they have their own unsolved "issues". Its best to stay away from those people because they’ll mess up your life (they may be abusing you somehow and that's why you're so pissed off). It's best to live your life away from people who you get mad around.

Bret Sabermetric May 08 2006 11:06 AM

="KC"]How to stop being abusive Here are a new things you can do to stop being abusive or share with someone who is abusive or just might be. 1. Know that you can’t solve a problem by causing someone else problems because it only leads to a more problem filled world. 2. You can reenact past abusive situations in your head (imagination) and say what you really wanted to say and do what you really wanted to do when you felt abused. This will start part of the healing process. Make sure to learn what ever you can from it. 3. Realize the past can never change and that all you can really change is your Future and present. 4. When someone tells you that they feel hurt by you…ask why and listen. Then do your best not to do what ever hurt them (unless they absolutely deserve it & others agree they do). 5. Always avoid people who make you mad or annoy you. Sometimes abusers do things that will make you make you mad (even though they are not conscious of it) on purpose. They do this because they have their own unsolved "issues". Its best to stay away from those people because they’ll mess up your life (they may be abusing you somehow and that's why you're so pissed off). It's best to live your life away from people who you get mad around. Dear Abby, I am in the same abusive relationship I wrote you about before, only now it's worse. There is another man in the picture--I'll call him Ed--who is getting in between me and my guy. Ed is very distant (he refuses to talk to the abusive guy directly and makes me do all his dirty work) and then the guy abuses me for simply doing what Ed tells me to do. I feel trapped, I feel abused, I feel dirty from this sick ongoing relationship. How do I stop the pattern of abuse, and keep my self-respect? I'm so confused. Can anybody help? I need a good cleansing cry. Sign me, Kould Cry

KC May 08 2006 11:13 AM

Actually, I'm thinking maybe I have an abusive streak -- I'm going to monitor myself for a week or so and see if I can't be nicer poster. OE: Lead by example, so to speak. If I'm going to complain about Bret being a lightning rod of abusiveness and then I'm abusive -- I'm being a hipocrite.

KC May 08 2006 02:37 PM

LIkening this to some kind of love triangle thing is just too weird for me to stomach. I have no men in my life, Ed doesn't tell me what to do, and I just wasn't lying. I think I've moved only one item so far to the RLF, the rest was done by other admins. You can call me names, treat me like shit, try and take the place over for your ball-busting amusement ... but please, let's not get all queer and strange about this. There has to be some limit to what is tolerable adult behavior and that crosses a couple of lines for my taste.

Nymr83 May 08 2006 09:21 PM

Why is everything about Bret? I'm trying to have a fight with someone and Bret hijacks the thread for his own fight! Is there a forum for posts that are too abusive for the RLF? sc=really high

Iubitul May 09 2006 09:25 AM

Nymr83 wrote: Why is everything about Bret? I'm trying to have a fight with someone and Bret hijacks the thread for his own fight! Is there a forum for posts that are too abusive for the RLF? sc=really high Exactly why he should be banned - enough is enough.

Bret Sabermetric May 09 2006 10:10 AM

Iubitul wrote: ="Nymr83"]Why is everything about Bret? I'm trying to have a fight with someone and Bret hijacks the thread for his own fight! Is there a forum for posts that are too abusive for the RLF? sc=really high Exactly why he should be banned - enough is enough. You don't need an excuse, do you? Just ban me now, and argue about it later. I'm here on Edgy's sufferance, and the poor thing has suffered enough already, don't you think? Why bother with anything like an excuse? See sig line. You're not very good at interpreting "sc=" lines, are you, lubital?

Iubitul May 09 2006 10:26 AM

That's like saying "just kidding". Anything truly funny has some truth to it... The fact is that I used to enjoy reading your posts - you always would back up your opinion with hard facts. IIRC, I was one of the few who agreed with you regarding moving Piazza from behind the plate - I even stated that he should be moved back when we were all on the mofo. But this has just become one big pissing contest, and it's just tiring. If you're miserable with whatever happened with your life, I'm sorry, but that doesn't give you the right to take it out on the rest of us here. Why don't you go back to pretending to be a woman and hit on some of our fellow posters? You seemed to get your jollies out of that...

Yancy Street Gang May 09 2006 10:34 AM

Iubitul wrote: Why don't you go back to pretending to be a woman and hit on some of our fellow posters? You seemed to get your jollies out of that... This is a news to me. Did he do that in the forum, or in person?

Iubitul May 09 2006 10:40 AM

Yancy Street Gang wrote: ="Iubitul"]Why don't you go back to pretending to be a woman and hit on some of our fellow posters? You seemed to get your jollies out of that... This is a news to me. Did he do that in the forum, or in person? He did it online - hit on one of our fellow posters at another board - one of his prouder moments, I'm sure...

cooby May 09 2006 10:42 AM

A proud moment for the female posters he pretended to be, too

Johnny Dickshot May 09 2006 02:50 PM

Hey, I don't think that stuff needs to be brought up. That was basically a bullshit charge to start with.

Iubitul May 09 2006 03:17 PM

He has been chasing around Kase and Edgy with bullshit charges, and making this place basically unreadable. If he doesn't like what's in his glass house, he shouldn't throw stones.

Johnny Dickshot May 09 2006 03:26 PM

That doesn't mean five year old cheap shots need to be reintroduced.

KC May 09 2006 03:33 PM

I have to agree with JD, big time. That was low, made my head hurt.

cooby May 09 2006 03:37 PM

Yes it was, and I don't mean lubitol's post

KC May 09 2006 03:44 PM

There were like four or five versions of some of the stuff that went on back then, let's not rehash them here while trying to get some peace.

Iubitul May 09 2006 04:00 PM

The only way to get peace is to ban the SOB.

Willets Point May 09 2006 04:42 PM

I don't think banning solves problems. People thought Ms. Met, Becca, and Bill were trouble-makers and they were driven away and still we have problems. Paulie Cee and Franknstyl were banned and still we have problems. The problems need to be resolved, banning just sweeps the problems under a rug.

KC May 09 2006 05:07 PM

I think we've all lost our minds -- please stop bringing up peoples names, five year old battles, and stuff from three forums ago here. Let's try and move on before things get too out of hand.

Nymr83 May 09 2006 07:58 PM

one thing that should be banned is any discussion of a non-baseball related argument that isn't on this board, it serves no purpose but to "start shit."

Iubitul May 09 2006 09:05 PM

KC wrote: I think we've all lost our minds -- please stop bringing up peoples names, five year old battles, and stuff from three forums ago here. Let's try and move on before things get too out of hand. You're absolutely right, and I'd like to apologize for my part in it.

Bret Sabermetric May 09 2006 10:01 PM

You goddamn well should apologize for repeating a slanderous, malicious lie. I'll discuss this with anyone, anywhere, in person or on line, and until you retract that comment, I'll trash your reputation all over these boards for repeating something you should know to be a falsehood. You should be ashamed of yourself. This repetition of a known falsehood does, however, show me how low some people are willing to go to slander me around here. You'll literally drag up any old shit, even that which you know to be untrue, to spread shit attacking me, won't you? Well, I know how to play that game pretty well, too. Would you like a little demonstration of how well I can play that game?

Nymr83 May 09 2006 10:18 PM

]Would you like a little demonstration of how well I can play that game? I would! sc= higher than in any post i've ever made.

metsmarathon May 09 2006 10:30 PM

can we fucking grow up already? and i mean everybody. this is damned tiring.

Nymr83 May 10 2006 12:14 AM

in everyone's defense (especialy my own) this IS the red light forum, the "approriate" place for this kind of stuff.