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Get ready for the shitshow

Benjamin Grimm Feb 16 2023 07:35 AM

This is from The Athletic. I generally don't post articles in their entirety, but I'm doing it this time because there's a lot here: MLB rule changes are coming to spring training: Get ready for ‘the s— show' By Jayson Stark Feb 14, 2023 So now that we've got that little Super Bowl distraction out of the way, get ready for the spring training moment you've all been waiting for. Pitchers. Catchers. And, last but definitely not least … The s— show. Wait. The s— show? What the heck is that supposed to mean? All right, let's explain. As spring training approached and the talk turned to all of MLB's new rule changes, I noticed I began to hear the same descriptive, spring-foreshadowing term over and over: The s— show. People in big-league front offices used it. Even people inside the commissioner's office seemed to drop it way more casually than you'd expect. And why is that? Because every one of baseball's dramatic new rule changes — shift bans! … pitch clocks! … pickoff limits! … larger bases that shrink the distance between first and second! — will be in effect from Day One of spring training. Not March 1. Not March 15. Not Opening Day. Not April 15. It all starts on Day One of spring training. And what's the logic behind that? To get “the s— show” over with as early as possible. That's what I was told, and more than once. And if you think it through, that makes sense. At some point, somewhere over the horizon, there is widespread confidence that these rules are going to transform baseball into a more watchable, more entertaining sport in many important ways. But between now and whenever that point arrives, there is going to be a period of … OK, let's just use the word “adjustment.” Hitters … pitchers … umpires … managers … even you and your family, sitting in the upper deck … you're all going to need to reprogram your brains once these rules enter your lives. And won't that make for an entertaining baseball experience? So what's that going to entail? I've been asking managers, front-office personnel and baseball officials that question for the past few weeks. Now, based on their input, I'm ready to answer your most burning questions on … the s— show that's about to bust out this spring training. Why does MLB actually want a s— show? Goodbye to the shift. Hello to chaos. (Doug Pensinger / Getty Images) Even the people in baseball who have pushed hardest for these rule changes understand. This won't be easy. And this won't always be picturesque. A lifetime of player routines and thought processes can't possibly be reconfigured in a day, a week or a Zoom call. There are going to be violations of every one of these rules, in every imaginable way. Since pitch-clock violations are going to result in “automatic” balls and strikes, things are going to get wacky. There will be strikeouts without anybody swinging-and-missing. There will be walks without anybody throwing a pitch. There will be balks. There will be screaming. There will be stuff unfolding on big-league baseball fields that has never unfolded before. Some of it will be highly entertaining. Some of it will feel highly outrageous. Does that sound like a s— show to you? If it does, you'll be ready. If it doesn't, whatever. There are people inside this sport who won't mind if any of it, or all of it, breaks out. You know why? Because they hope that stuff will happen. The more s— shows they endure in spring training, the fewer they might have to deal with in April. That's what they're praying for, anyway. Won't players be cut a little slack in the beginning? Ho-ho-ho-ho-ho. Nope! It might seem logical from afar for baseball to phase these rules in gradually, over time. But that is not how this is going to work. There is no more powerful value than shock value. How many times would you want to have an automatic strike called on you because you were hitting and didn't get back into the batter's box on time? How fast would you get your act together if that happened with two strikes and you got called out with the bases loaded? That's exactly how this process went in the minor leagues, you know. The pitch clock was dropped into the lives of minor leaguers during the season last April. For the next month, that went about how you'd expect. Two weeks in, there were still nearly two pitch-clock violations being called per game. By week four, that was down to just over one a game. By week six, that rate had settled in at about one violation every two games. If the definition of “normal” is the point at which baseball clock violations were pretty much the same as NFL delay-of-game violations (0.6 per game), then the minor leagues took about a month and a half to reach that point. So does this sport really need a phase-in period? That would seem to only postpone the inevitable. Or maybe baseball already had that phase-in period. It's called “the offseason” — as in: “They had a whole offseason to get ready for this stuff.” What rule is going to drive pitchers the most loco? How will base runners, such as the Guardians' Steven Kwan, test pitchers? (Vincent Carchietta / USA Today) You might think pitchers are going to have a rough time coping with the groundballs to the right side that used to get slurped up by The Shift. You might think they're going to be unsettled by the compressed amount of time they'll now have to warm up between innings. But here's what's likely to get them most out of sync this spring: They're a sure bet to forget they can't just step off the rubber every time they get flustered. So what do we mean by that? Under the new pitch-timer rules, pitchers have a newfound word to worry about: “disengagement,” which will no longer be something that applies just to various Kardashians every time they break up with their celebrity significant others. In this context, a “disengagement” is a potentially game-changing development that occurs every time a pitcher “disengages” from the rubber in a couple of different ways. One would be a pickoff throw. That's easy enough to grasp. What's harder to remember is that every time a pitcher steps off the rubber, even if it's merely to gather his thoughts, that is also considered a “disengagement.” And for those who haven't followed this closely, here's why that matters: After two “disengagements,” a pitcher can no longer throw over to first base — or any base — unless he then picks off the runner. If the runner isn't out, it's a balk. And that is going to dramatically alter pitching, base-stealing and the art of controlling the running game. Managers, coaches and front offices report that they've tried to get their pitchers thinking about this for weeks now. But good luck to them. Think about veteran pitchers, who have spent all their lives stepping off every time they had an issue with a catcher or just needed to hit the reset button. Now there are real-life consequences for doing that. And that's a huge deal. That's not merely a habit. That's behavior that has been branded into their brain cells for so long, how can it possibly be deprogrammed in one or two trips to the mound — or 12? So that's a fun game you and your friends can play if you're hanging out at any spring training games. Start a pool on how many times your favorite pitcher steps off and then shakes his head because he just frigging forgot … again. Sounds like an enjoyable beverage-consuming game to me. What rule is likely to drive hitters the most loco? The pitch clock will be a huge adjustment for hitters, too. (Shawn Patrick Ouellette / Portland Press Herald via Getty Images) This one is less nuanced. It's just about that ticking pitch clock. You would think that 15 seconds between pitches with no one on base is plenty of time for any hitter. You would think that 20 seconds between pitches with runners on would be a piece of cake. But wait. You clearly haven't read the fine print. You see, this rule also says that the hitter must be in the box “and alert to the pitcher” with eight seconds left on that timer. In other words, with nobody on, the hitter needs to be locked in on the pitcher only seven seconds after the clock starts. You should know that quite a few teams are genuinely concerned their hitters are going to have issues with that. Aren't you worried about all the batting gloves that might not get adjusted now between every single pitch? Have you reflected much on all the time hitters have been allowed to spend thinking — between every single pitch — about the data they've been fed about what a particular pitcher likes to throw in this count or that count, in this situation or that situation? There isn't going to be time for that anymore. And a lot of these hitters just aren't ready to live in that world. So violations will be flagged. Strikes will be called. Tempers will erupt. And that will be quite a sight this spring. At least, somewhere over the horizon, a couple of months into the season, everyone will have figured it all out … and games will be zipping along in a beautiful, eminently watchable rhythm … and nobody will miss those bad old days. But first, this spring, there is s—-show potential. Why should you pay attention every time there are runners on first and third? So now that we have you primed on the pitch clock and disengagement rules, here's an especially interesting situation to focus on this spring: Runners on first and third … man on first takes a big lead … so the pitcher throws over once … then the pitcher can't help but throw over twice … and then … Uh-oh. That's two “disengagements.” So then what? Is the track meet on? In the minor leagues, for some teams, this was a time to lean into this situation, force the issue and make the defense react. In the big leagues, that's a lock to happen on a far greater scale. Suppose the runner on first then takes a gigantic lead? Does the pitcher take that bait, throw over to first and let a run score while a little league base-running adventure fires up? Does the pitcher get all shook up and balk home that runner on third? This spring figures to be a time when teams will experiment with that scenario and more, just to see what happens. Sounds like the ultimate in new rules fun! Are the umpires ready for all the stuff they now have to look out for? Umpires will have their hands full this spring — and beyond. (Brandon Sloter / Icon Sportswire via Getty Images) Never in the history of baseball have umpires had more on their plates than this year. Is that good? They still have to do 100 percent of the stuff they always did. But now they also have to keep constant track of the timers … when they start … when hitters lock into the box …when pitchers start their delivery … how many disengagements there have been … where defenses set up in this new world without shifts, etc., etc., etc. What could possibly go wrong? It sounds like a lot. But by all accounts, nobody is more ready for these rules than the umpires. They held a three-day new rules retreat with MLB officials in January, and pelted them with all sorts of questions about every conceivable new-rule situation. And there's one other important thing to remember here. Joe West retired! But not just him. There has been massive umpire turnover over the past several years. So these rules will be implemented and enforced by a much younger, much more open-minded group of umpires than would have been in place if MLB had passed these rules a decade ago. Also, many of these younger umpires have worked with these rules in the minor leagues. So they'll be a valuable source of information for older umps in their crews. In other words, the umpires appear to be the least of baseball's concerns. Nevertheless, we need to ask … Isn't there pretty much a guaranteed ‘Angel Hernandez Moment' coming? I know what you're thinking. If you're a true connoisseur of Angel's umpiring travails, you know there's always another Angel Hernandez Moment coming. But in this case, there's more of a chance than usual this spring. It's easy to see why. Add in … a bunch of new rules players haven't acclimated to yet … umpires who will enforce those rules by calling actual balls on pitchers and actual strikes on hitters for timer violations … the volatility of having some of those balls and strikes — not to mention balks — resulting in walks and outs in potentially game-changing situations. And … Hoo boy. You know. But no reason to pick on the always-popular Angel Hernandez here, because here's the important part: Umpires have already told managers that they've been instructed not to overlook anything. And managers have told umpires that's what they prefer — at least this spring. So get ready. MLB has urged all umpires to call every violation … no matter what the situation … even if it allows the winning run to score … and regardless of how big a star is about to get totally irritated by that call. Who out there thinks that's going to go smoothly … the first time that, say, Pete Alonso, gets called out on a pitch-clock violation with the winning run on third … or, say, Kenley Jansen, blows a save on a pitch-clock-induced balk? I think we all know that answer. But think of it as what it's designed to be — a valuable learning experience. Once it happens one time, is there any chance it happens two times? Will we see a spring training record for ejections? Hey, guess what? We might. Other than the fact that nobody even keeps track of spring training ejection records, they would be in serious jeopardy this spring. Here's why. Well, there are all the scenarios we just explained. But also, this: You know what happens to players who argue pitch-timer violations? Oh, nothing unusual, other than … automatic ejections. MLB has told teams it will consider arguing about pitch-clock calls to be equivalent to arguing balls and strikes. And the penalty for that has always been an automatic ejection. So don't say I didn't warn you! Will we see a spring training record for balks? Richard Bleier balked for the cycle last season. Who's next? (Brad Penner / USA Today) Great Moments in Balk-ball History: Remember the fateful evening of Sept. 27, 2022, when Marlins reliever Richard Bleier did something that had never been done — by balking for the cycle? Richard Bleier has never had a balk called on him in his career. In the 8th inning he had not one, not two but THREE balks called on him The third was enough for Don Mattingly as he got tossed @shea_station pic.twitter.com/n6GmE96HZA — Jomboy Media (@JomboyMedia) September 28, 2022 He balked Jeff McNeil from first to second, second to third and third to home — all in the same at-bat. It was special. And that was before pitchers had clocks and a disengagement quota to deal with. So is that coming to a spring training park near you? Don't rule it out. For one thing, that Bleier balk cycle was a result of MLB leaning on umpires to start strictly enforcing the no-stop part of the balk rule last summer. And clubs are hearing that umpires have been told to be even more vigilant this year. But beyond that, those new rules were in effect for a modest spike in balk calls in the minor leagues last year. So if you're a balk lover — and really, who isn't? — this is going to be a spring for you. After all, what's more soothing than the sight of palm trees, sunshine, gleaming baseball diamonds … and balks? BALKS PER GAME IN MINOR LEAGUES 2022 — 0.201 2021 — 0.164 INCREASE — 22.6 percent Is the two-man outfield about to become a thing? You can wave so long to the four-man outfield. That's now officially against the new shift rules. But what about the two-man outfield — featuring a center fielder and a right fielder, as usual, but with a left fielder set up in short right field, where shifting infielders used to hang out? If you guessed that's still legal, you win. But will teams dare to try it this spring? I'd bet yes on that. At the Winter Meetings in December, MLB held a new rules meeting with all 30 managers — and then scheduled January follow-up Zoom sessions with individual managers, coaches and anyone else they wanted to loop in. One of the most asked questions at those meetings was: Is the two-man outfield legal? Since it is, that sounds like a sure sign some teams will at least experiment with it this spring, against just the right pull-happy hitters in certain low-risk situations. But they should know that MLB will be watching closely. MLB's best-case scenario: The first eight teams that try it give up a bloop triple to now-unoccupied left field and everyone realizes this is way too risky. MLB's worst-case scenario: It works way too well — and within a few weeks, every team is doing it. But teams should know that if the two-man outfield becomes too popular, the shift ban rules allow MLB to rewrite the rule to make that formation illegal, too. So if a two-man outfield breaks out at a spring game near you, pay attention! Is the infield-in-motion formation about to become a thing? Have you read the new shift rule closely? If you have, you need a hobby. But either way, it's notable the language dictates that two infielders must be set up on the infield dirt (or shallower) “when the pitch is released.” So now imagine, as the pitcher lurches into his delivery, the shortstop starts sprinting toward the second-base bag and crosses the bag a millisecond after the pitch is delivered, so he's on the “wrong” side of second base when the hitter swings. Is that legal? Good question. In fact, it's such a good question that several teams have confirmed they asked it to MLB this winter. But the answer is: No! Not legal! It's considered a “circumvention” of the shift rule. So that will not be a spring phenomenon waiting to happen. So will this all be worked out in spring training, and come April, everything will be cool? Opening Day could usher in a whole new round of rule change ripple effects. (Tom Horak / USA Today) In a perfect, dreamy, best-case world, oh yeah. Spring training would be plenty of time to iron out every potential episode of the s— show. But in real life? In this world? No chance. How long does it take for any player to rewire his brain and expunge all muscle memory from a lifelong habit? Only your local neurosurgeon probably knows for sure. But does the answer seem like it would be “a month” — for every baseball player in North America? I'll take the over. In the minor leagues last year, pitch-clock violations did level off after a month but then held steady, from about week six through the end of the season, and never did disappear. So these newfangled ball/strike/balk calls are here to stay. But now factor in the bigger picture. Remember that every front office has spent the winter brainstorming ways to exploit these new rules and gain whatever edge might be out there. Also, remember that there's no reason those teams will reveal their favorite beat-the-rules tricks until the season actually starts. So the arrival of the regular season will launch a whole new chapter of new rules adventures. OK, now there's more. Remember that many players will leave these spring training camps for the World Baseball Classic — where none of the new rules will be used. So those players will miss out on weeks of new-rules indoctrination and habit-breaking. And finally, there's this part. It's one thing to have the winning run score in the ninth inning of a spring training game because an umpire called a pitch-clock violation. It's a very different thing to have the winning run score in a regular-season game for that same reason. What are the odds of that happening in April? I'll set them at approximately 9,000 percent, give or take a thousand. But just keep one thing in mind: Some day, all this hubbub will pass. Some day, everyone will settle into these rules and we'll wake up and find MLB has sliced 20 minutes off the length of the average game. And when that day comes, we'll have to remind ourselves: Baseball never could have gotten there … without the s— shows of March.

Edgy MD Feb 16 2023 07:47 AM Re: Get ready for the shitshow

Batting glove adjustment crisis!

kcmets Feb 16 2023 07:47 AM Re: Get ready for the shitshow

That's some classic shit of a column. Bravo!

metirish Feb 16 2023 07:47 AM Re: Get ready for the shitshow

Wow a lot indeed , I guess the best way to implement this is to do what they are doing, right from the get go. Anyway, I can't imagine baseball without umpires, robots can't enforce this surely? Pitchers that have funky motions are going to have to change ? Should be a crazy few months

MFS62 Feb 16 2023 08:09 AM Re: Get ready for the shitshow

I'm sorry it took this long for the step out/batting glove time limit be a rule. It would have really fucked with Jeter's head. Later

Fman99 Feb 16 2023 09:40 AM Re: Get ready for the shitshow

It'll be curious to see how many teams cheat that outfielder in from the other side to go where the third infielder on the wrong side of the base was formerly.

kcmets Feb 16 2023 09:44 AM Re: Get ready for the shitshow

=MFS62 post_id=118387 time=1676560195 user_id=60]I'm sorry it took this long for the step out/batting glove time limit be a rule. It would have really fucked with Jeter's head.

David Wright more pops into my head than Lady Derek.

A Boy Named Seo Feb 16 2023 10:10 AM Re: Get ready for the shitshow

Is the infield-in-motion formation about to become a thing? Have you read the new shift rule closely? If you have, you need a hobby. But either way, it's notable the language dictates that two infielders must be set up on the infield dirt (or shallower) “when the pitch is released.” So now imagine, as the pitcher lurches into his delivery, the shortstop starts sprinting toward the second-base bag and crosses the bag a millisecond after the pitch is delivered, so he's on the “wrong” side of second base when the hitter swings. Is that legal? Good question. In fact, it's such a good question that several teams have confirmed they asked it to MLB this winter. But the answer is: No! Not legal! It's considered a “circumvention” of the shift rule. So that will not be a spring phenomenon waiting to happen. I don't get this one. It does sound very arena football league, but if the player is on the side where he's supposed to be when the pitch is released, why is it illegal? What would he have to do to make it legal?

Marshmallowmilkshake Feb 16 2023 10:11 AM Re: Get ready for the shitshow

I've never understood the use of something like "S---." If you are going to use the word, then use the word. What are you protecting me from of you use the three dashes? If the publication has a prohibition against using profanity, the write around it. Call it a dumpster fire or something else along those lines. I don't understand the point of easing rule changes in gradually. Of course there will be a period of adjustment. But teams had the pitch clock in their minor league systems this past year and surely had to have been planning for adjustments. It's not like everyone didn't know this was coming.

batmagadanleadoff Feb 16 2023 10:39 AM Re: Get ready for the shitshow

A Boy Named Seo wrote: I don't get this one. It does sound very arena football league, but if the player is on the side where he's supposed to be when the pitch is released, why is it illegal? What would he have to do to make it legal? If the league is advising that the "in-motion" tactic is illegal, then the likely answer to your question is that the rule itself wasn't properly or precisely written.

batmagadanleadoff Feb 16 2023 10:44 AM Re: Get ready for the shitshow

A Boy Named Seo wrote: I don't get this one. It does sound very arena football league, but if the player is on the side where he's supposed to be when the pitch is released, why is it illegal? What would he have to do to make it legal? If the league is advising that the "in-motion" tactic is illegal, then the likely answer to your question is that the rule itself wasn't properly or precisely written. But I agree with you. If that rule remains written as it is, I'd like to see a manager set his infielders in motion the split second after the pitch is released to challenge the inevitable violation ruling.

batmagadanleadoff Feb 16 2023 10:53 AM Re: Get ready for the shitshow

If the publication has a prohibition against using profanity, [then] write around it. But "S" followed by three dashes is a way around the use of profanity. So if there's a prohibition against profanity, The Athletic wrote around it. Like you suggested. So it did what you suggested it do.

Benjamin Grimm Feb 16 2023 11:00 AM Re: Get ready for the shitshow

If the people that the author is quoting are actually saying the word "shitshow" then it would be misleading to swap that for some other term. "s---show" seems like the best alternative to me.

kcmets Feb 16 2023 11:00 AM Re: Get ready for the shitshow

Circumvention, on the defense. Five yards, still first down. I hope it all blows up in their faces... [fimg=360]https://www.thecranepool.net/images/shitfan2.png[/fimg]

Marshmallowmilkshake Feb 16 2023 11:27 AM Re: Get ready for the shitshow

Benjamin Grimm wrote: If the people that the author is quoting are actually saying the word "shitshow" then it would be misleading to swap that for some other term. "s---show" seems like the best alternative to me. Then use the word.

Benjamin Grimm Feb 16 2023 11:33 AM Re: Get ready for the shitshow

I agree. But I assume he was prohibited from doing so.

batmagadanleadoff Feb 16 2023 11:35 AM Re: Get ready for the shitshow

Benjamin Grimm wrote: If the people that the author is quoting are actually saying the word "shitshow" then it would be misleading to swap that for some other term. "s---show" seems like the best alternative to me. Then use the word. What if they're prohibited? Like you suggested.

smg58 Feb 16 2023 11:47 AM Re: Get ready for the shitshow

=Fman99 post_id=118394 time=1676565645 user_id=86] It'll be curious to see how many teams cheat that outfielder in from the other side to go where the third infielder on the wrong side of the base was formerly.

At least thirty.

kcmets Feb 16 2023 11:51 AM Re: Get ready for the shitshow

I read somewhere that Keef has a clause in his new contract that he's allowed to leave the booth and drive home (or go to the hotel) when a player is inserted on second base in extra innings. Brilliant! He's Keith Hernandez!

Marshmallowmilkshake Feb 17 2023 06:29 AM Re: Get ready for the shitshow

Buster Olney had some podcast guest making some interesting points about some of the changes. Alex Anthopoulos of the Braves was saying that in those long extra-inning games, relievers would be asked to pitcher more innings that usual, meaning they would be unable for several games after that. He said teams would need to option players to the minors right after that or even DFA them so they could get fresh arms up for the next few games. Another guest, I think it was Karl Ravitch, noted that when the rules about barreling over the catcher and shortstop came out there was similar outrage and people got over it pretty quickly. I think many of the speed-of-game rules are different than the safety rules, so I don't think he's quite on the mark on this one.

Edgy MD Feb 17 2023 07:01 AM Re: Get ready for the shitshow

Yeah, that last one isn't fair. And resignation at the lack of power we have isn't really the same as embracing something. And the rules about catcher runner contact were a shitshow and still kind of are. The idea that we can't enjoy virtually any safe/out call on a play at the plate without waiting for the judges is a huge loss and having learned to soldier on with that loss doesn't make it any less of one.

nymr83 Feb 17 2023 09:59 AM Re: Get ready for the shitshow

In order to further speed up the game, the commissioner will be updating the rulebook to reflect the SAVANNAH BANANAS rules [url]https://thesavannahbananas.com/bananaball/

nymr83 Feb 17 2023 10:01 AM Re: Get ready for the shitshow

Edgy MD wrote: Yeah, that last one isn't fair. And resignation at the lack of power we have isn't really the same as embracing something. And the rules about catcher runner contact were a shitshow and still kind of are. The idea that we can't enjoy virtually any safe/out call on a play at the plate without waiting for the judges is a huge loss and having learned to soldier on with that loss doesn't make it any less of one. At least they were a shitshow in the name of safety though - many of these new rules - banning the shift in particular - serves no purpose but to benefit acertain group of players over a different group of players as compared to the current rules

MFS62 Feb 17 2023 11:24 AM Re: Get ready for the shitshow

In order to further speed up the game, the commissioner will be updating the rulebook to reflect the SAVANNAH BANANAS rules [url]https://thesavannahbananas.com/bananaball/ I'd laugh. But the way they're trying to mess with the game, who knows? Later

Edgy MD Feb 17 2023 12:13 PM Re: Get ready for the shitshow

Edgy MD wrote: Yeah, that last one isn't fair. And resignation at the lack of power we have isn't really the same as embracing something. And the rules about catcher runner contact were a shitshow and still kind of are. The idea that we can't enjoy virtually any safe/out call on a play at the plate without waiting for the judges is a huge loss and having learned to soldier on with that loss doesn't make it any less of one. At least they were a shitshow in the name of safety though - many of these new rules - banning the shift in particular - serves no purpose but to benefit acertain group of players over a different group of players as compared to the current rules The thing is that the rules weren't actually changed. They just re-worded the rules that were already in place as a pretext to get the umpires to enforce them more aggressively. Instead, it just muddled the rules and you can't get agreement (still) from one umpire to the next about what is licit and what is not.

Frayed Knot Feb 18 2023 07:49 AM Re: Get ready for the shitshow

There was an incident years ago involving either Boggs or Gwynn (I've forgotten which now) where middler infielders put themselves in motion as a pitch was being delivered in an attempt to close up gaps that they thought the hitter might be aiming for (Tony's famed '5.5 hole' for instance). The umps immediately ruled it illegal citing distraction within the batter's sight lines and maybe some other stuff too. I have no idea where, or even if, such authority was granted in the rule book or whether it was just a 'common sense' thing the men in blue invented on the spot.

G-Fafif Feb 25 2023 08:37 AM Re: Get ready for the shitshow

First impression of the pitch clock: it's weird, but maybe we're no longer used to pitchers working quick and batters stepping in. [tweet]https://twitter.com/talkinbaseball_/status/1629214565622853632[/tweet]

Lefty Specialist Feb 25 2023 11:51 AM Re: Get ready for the shitshow

Seeing that makes me glad Chris Bassitt is no longer pitching for the Mets.

metirish Feb 25 2023 02:39 PM Re: Get ready for the shitshow

[TWEET]https://twitter.com/JeffPassan/status/1629576473203081216[/TWEET]

TransMonk Feb 25 2023 06:43 PM Re: Get ready for the shitshow

I really hope the networks don't create a graphic.

nymr83 Feb 25 2023 06:48 PM Re: Get ready for the shitshow

Well, MLB wanted this and we didn't have to wait long - today's Braves/Red Sox game ended on a pitch clock violation - a strikeout when the batter wasn't "set" with 8 seconds left. LOL

metirish Feb 25 2023 07:15 PM Re: Get ready for the shitshow

Well, MLB wanted this and we didn't have to wait long - today's Braves/Red Sox game ended on a pitch clock violation - a strikeout when the batter wasn't "set" with 8 seconds left. LOL Wow

metirish Feb 25 2023 07:16 PM Re: Get ready for the shitshow

I expect to be still watching games at 10pm , this sucks

nymr83 Feb 26 2023 08:08 AM Re: Get ready for the shitshow

I like the concept of a pitch clock, just not the part where it has an effect on the outcome of games. Perhaps instead of an in-game penalty they should just have fines. Every violation is a fine. At the end of the season, they collect and the fines money and divide it up amongst all the players, so overall player compensation isn't down and the guys who don't violate the clock too much actually end up ahead.

Edgy MD Feb 26 2023 08:29 AM Re: Get ready for the shitshow

I keep reading the title of this thread and thinking of it as the name of Hank Williams, Jr.'s new Monday Night Football theme song.

metirish Feb 26 2023 04:58 PM Re: Get ready for the shitshow

[TWEET]https://twitter.com/TroyPSilva/status/1629633045392408576[/TWEET] Relax , Troy

stevejrogers Feb 26 2023 07:04 PM Re: Get ready for the shitshow

Edgy MD wrote: I keep reading the title of this thread and thinking of it as the name of Hank Williams, Jr.'s new Monday Night Football theme song. These new rules are making me feel so lonesome I could cry, and want to melt Mandfred's cold, cold heart!

Frayed Knot Feb 27 2023 04:18 AM Re: Get ready for the shitshow

=nymr83 post_id=118877 time=1677424113 user_id=54] I like the concept of a pitch clock, just not the part where it has an effect on the outcome of games.

Making sure that it doesn't affect the outcome of the game is something that's entirely within the powers of the players.

And if they find themselves in a position where one ball or one strike is potentially game-altering then whoever is in the

box or on the rubber at that moment better make damn sure that they're aware of the situation.

stevejrogers Feb 27 2023 05:28 AM Re: Get ready for the shitshow

Frayed Knot wrote: =nymr83 post_id=118877 time=1677424113 user_id=54] I like the concept of a pitch clock, just not the part where it has an effect on the outcome of games. Making sure that it doesn't affect the outcome of the game is something that's entirely within the powers of the players. And if they find themselves in a position where one ball or one strike is potentially game-altering then whoever is in the box or on the rubber at that moment better make damn sure that they're aware of the situation.

Ugh, now I'm imagining a world where the Red Sox win the 1986 World Series due to Kevin Mitchell taking to long to realize he doesn't have anything to adjust below the belt!

Frayed Knot Feb 27 2023 05:38 AM Re: Get ready for the shitshow

Moral of the story: Don't be taking your pants off with the game, not to mention the season and the championship, still on the line. iow, the prepared players and prepared teams will be at an advantage with these new rules. Wow, what a concept!

metirish Feb 27 2023 06:23 AM Re: Get ready for the shitshow

Nomar would have to really make a change

TransMonk Feb 27 2023 07:17 AM Re: Get ready for the shitshow

Frayed Knot wrote: Making sure that it doesn't affect the outcome of the game is something that's entirely within the powers of the players. This. It was the first day. Now they know and I bet that dude never gets caught while in that situation again. Plus, like the universal DH, the league has been telegraphing this move for YEARS. It's not like it's this is something they made up last week. The players will learn. Game changing consequences will happen rarely, if ever. Games will be shorter and all will be fine.

Lefty Specialist Feb 27 2023 08:18 AM Re: Get ready for the shitshow

Yeah, having it happen in precisely the way it did was a HUGE lesson for players. I also loved Scherzer's cat-and-mouse game getting the hitter to step out, then holding the ball for a long time as the batter gets more and more uncomfortable in the box.

MFS62 Feb 27 2023 11:07 AM Re: Get ready for the shitshow

Lefty Specialist wrote: I also loved Scherzer's cat-and-mouse game getting the hitter to step out, then holding the ball for a long time as the batter gets more and more uncomfortable in the box. "Wiley veteran." Later

Frayed Knot Feb 27 2023 11:22 AM Re: Get ready for the shitshow Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Feb 27 2023 03:25 PM

Max says he "Loves" the clock because it turns the pace-setting from the hitters over to the pitchers, particularly when/if the batter uses up his lone allowed step-out.

Benjamin Grimm Feb 27 2023 11:43 AM Re: Get ready for the shitshow

I suppose there might be some pitchers for whom that's not true, but my sense is that those are probably the exceptions.

A Boy Named Seo Mar 02 2023 10:36 AM Re: Get ready for the shitshow

Looking at the box scores yesterday, I'm seeing mostly games around 2:30 and only one that went past 3 hours (a 14-14 tie that went "only" 3:16, given the 28 runs). After the first couple days of pitch clock violations that went viral, seems like the shitshow is calming a little?

Edgy MD Mar 02 2023 10:44 AM Re: Get ready for the shitshow

I might-a be a little crazy, but aren't spring games something like 20% faster in general anyhow? Clearly, the clock will shorten game times. What's still up for discussion is how much of what is being cut is badness and how much is goodness.

Frayed Knot Mar 02 2023 10:53 AM Re: Get ready for the shitshow

Tim Kurkjian said yesterday (PTI) that, after spending an entire day at NYM camp followed by one at NYY camp, he heard much praise and not a single complaint from players on the new rules.

A Boy Named Seo Mar 02 2023 10:55 AM Re: Get ready for the shitshow

Edgy MD wrote: I might-a be a little crazy, but aren't spring games something like 20% faster in general anyhow? Clearly, the clock will shorten game times. What's still up for discussion is how much of what is being cut is badness and how much is goodness. I don't know, I was wondering the same. Spring games always felt long to me, but a good long. I never wanted to get out of the sun and be anywhere else.

Edgy MD Mar 02 2023 10:57 AM Re: Get ready for the shitshow

Frayed Knot wrote: Tim Kurkjian said yesterday (PTI) that, after spending an entire day at NYM camp followed by one at NYY camp, he heard much praise and not a single complaint from players on the new rules. I believe him, although that might depend on to which "new" rules he's referring. Also, the stakes are mostly non-existent in spring training.

Fman99 Mar 02 2023 01:56 PM Re: Get ready for the shitshow

It does seem to pick up the game pace. ESPN features the clock prominently on the display, which is crud. I don't need to see it like it's the NCAA shot clock. But more weeknight games ending in the 9:30-9:40 range are OK by me.

metsmarathon Mar 03 2023 07:31 AM Re: Get ready for the shitshow

yeah, if my kids are more able to stay up to watch the game more often, instead of maybe the first inning if we're lucky, then the pitch clock will be more than worth it. the one thing i'm actually a bit worried about is if the games go quicker, will there be enough time to actually go get concessions?

Edgy MD Mar 03 2023 07:48 AM Re: Get ready for the shitshow

Believe me, peoples are already complaining about that. I'm sure they'll come up with ways to pad the game if things are coming in under the target.

kcmets Mar 03 2023 09:00 AM Re: Get ready for the shitshow

It would be kind of amusing if they get hit with a bite on the boo boo and notice a drop in concession revenue. I read somewhere that next year they want to experiment with three ghost runners,, four outs and maybe three balls is a walk in the minors. (I totally made that last part up)

MFS62 Mar 03 2023 09:22 AM Re: Get ready for the shitshow

four outs and maybe three balls is a walk in the minors. Having three balls certainly would slow a player down. BA DA BING! Later

Frayed Knot Mar 03 2023 10:40 AM Re: Get ready for the shitshow

They haven't changed the between innings time nor the length of each pitching change (sigh). Concession business will be just fine.

Edgy MD Mar 03 2023 12:09 PM Re: Get ready for the shitshow

Well, thse things are shorter in the spring in general.

A Boy Named Seo Mar 03 2023 12:49 PM Re: Get ready for the shitshow

Today on the shitshow... Nats would go on to score 8(!!!) in the top of the 3rd. [TWEET]https://twitter.com/TalkinBaseball_/status/1631728646451863575[/TWEET]

A Boy Named Seo Mar 03 2023 01:00 PM Re: Get ready for the shitshow

But also this [TWEET]https://twitter.com/PitchingNinja/status/1631727808979546116[/TWEET]

Edgy MD Mar 05 2023 08:34 AM Re: Get ready for the shitshow

What happens when the clock gamesmanship becomes a defining part of the game?

A Boy Named Seo Mar 06 2023 11:29 AM Re: Get ready for the shitshow

More Max Madness. Called for a balk, not because he didn't come to a complete stop, but because he quick-pitched Victor Robles who wasn't ready and looking up. The twitter thread includes a post-game Max Q&A where he explains his side and a tweet from Howie trying to make sense of it all. Baseball in 2023 is weird. [TWEET]https://twitter.com/SNYtv/status/1631725529853304853[/TWEET] Fangraphs covers all of Max's stuff -> https://blogs.fangraphs.com/max-scherzer-tests-the-limits-of-the-new-pitch-clock-rules/

Frayed Knot Mar 06 2023 02:20 PM Re: Get ready for the shitshow

Test the limits of the rules now. That's part of what ST is for.

metirish Mar 09 2023 12:22 PM Re: Get ready for the shitshow

[TWEET]https://twitter.com/JeffPassan/status/1633874821179379713[/TWEET] Make of this what you will, if anything

G-Fafif Mar 23 2023 02:25 PM Re: Get ready for the shitshow

Vogey is ready. [tweet]https://twitter.com/mlb/status/1638994616228921344[/tweet]

Benjamin Grimm Mar 23 2023 02:28 PM Re: Get ready for the shitshow

He probably means he'll take one home with him after the game.

duan Mar 24 2023 05:55 AM Re: Get ready for the shitshow

that's pretty good in fairness.

G-Fafif Mar 24 2023 08:45 AM Re: Get ready for the shitshow

If ya really wanna shift, bring in an outfielder, per Jayson Starks and some teams messing around with the notion. https://theathletic.com/4336237/2023/03/23/mlb-two-man-outfield-shift/

Benjamin Grimm Mar 24 2023 08:53 AM Re: Get ready for the shitshow

If ya really wanna shift, bring in an outfielder, per Jayson Starks and some teams messing around with the notion. https://theathletic.com/4336237/2023/03/23/mlb-two-man-outfield-shift/ I've been thinking that this is inevitable, and will probably be addressed in yet another rule change for 2024.

Edgy MD Mar 24 2023 02:56 PM Re: Get ready for the shitshow

=duan post_id=120500 time=1679658942 user_id=99] that's pretty good in fairness.

It is pretty good, but I'm a little uncomfortable with the selling the changes through propaganda.

duan Mar 29 2023 06:38 AM Re: Get ready for the shitshow

Ah it's good humoured and self aware.

metirish Apr 02 2023 07:45 PM Re: Get ready for the shitshow

[TWEET]https://twitter.com/AnthonyDiComo/status/1642627519269486594[/TWEET]

kcmets Apr 03 2023 09:11 AM Re: Get ready for the shitshow

I don't tweet much, if at all really but... "Pitch clock and gametime management - good. Ghost runners - stupid." You've all been tweeted. Yay!

Edgy MD Apr 03 2023 12:20 PM Re: Get ready for the shitshow

Yeah, the question is too frequently phrased in terms of "What do you think of 'the new rules'?" Each rule clearly deserves to be considered individually. But that's the way The Man operates.

nymr83 Apr 03 2023 05:21 PM Re: Get ready for the shitshow

Carrasco flat out said the pitch clock bothered him today. Definitely something to watch as he already felt like the most likely starter to have a NON INJURY related regression to shit this year.

Johnny Lunchbucket Apr 03 2023 06:50 PM Re: Get ready for the shitshow

I don't think Buck would like "I wasn't prepared" as an excuse.

Edgy MD Apr 03 2023 07:59 PM Re: Get ready for the shitshow

On the other hand, it's not like the rest o' the team was steppin' up.

duan Apr 04 2023 04:13 AM Re: Get ready for the shitshow

I think it's fair to have it as a 'it got to me' issue - but you then need to have that sorted for next time out. Fact of the matter is the pitchclock has made baseball WAY WAY snappier and a much better game.

nymr83 Apr 04 2023 06:46 AM Re: Get ready for the shitshow

=duan post_id=121351 time=1680603205 user_id=99] I think it's fair to have it as a 'it got to me' issue - but you then need to have that sorted for next time out. Fact of the matter is the pitchclock has made baseball WAY WAY snappier and a much better game.

Spring training was the time to sort it out, but I don't know that he CAN sort it out - he mentioned it was a fatigue thing, that he felt he didn't have time to recover during/after two long innings

Fman99 Apr 04 2023 07:03 AM Re: Get ready for the shitshow

I think when 2023 wraps up you'll see a bunch of guys like Carrasco did yesterday - who never figure out how to adapt to the pitch clock. I'm not saying Cookie can't right it, only that there will be some dudes who never do. Once Verlander is back, the pressure mounts, assuming Megill and Peterson continue to look MLB ready and everyone else manages to not get hurt. This is Cookie's walk year and the Mets won't give him 31 more starts if he peters out in the middle innings repeatedly.

duan Apr 04 2023 09:45 AM Re: Get ready for the shitshow

=nymr83 post_id=121358 time=1680612378 user_id=54] Spring training was the time to sort it out, but I don't know that he CAN sort it out - he mentioned it was a fatigue thing, that he felt he didn't have time to recover during/after two long innings

sure - but you can't replicate every situation and sometimes you think you've processed what you'd do and then you get caught by it. I think we may well see an number of times where an inning cascades into a pile of poop this year both for and against us in the context of the pitch clock unsettling the pitcher, but it's well worth it.

duan Apr 04 2023 09:55 AM Re: Get ready for the shitshow

=Fman99 post_id=121359 time=1680613405 user_id=86] I think when 2023 wraps up you'll see a bunch of guys like Carrasco did yesterday - who never figure out how to adapt to the pitch clock. I'm not saying Cookie can't right it, only that there will be some dudes who never do.

I can imagine this being the case.

ashie62 Apr 04 2023 11:59 AM Re: Get ready for the shitshow

So Carrasco is on a short leash

Frayed Knot Apr 04 2023 03:40 PM Re: Get ready for the shitshow

Not after one game, no.

Edgy MD Apr 05 2023 12:06 PM Re: Get ready for the shitshow

Ashie likes to move on quickly. It seems cardio is going to be a crucial training element going forward, for pitchers and hitters as well.

metirish Apr 18 2023 01:22 PM Re: Get ready for the shitshow

MLB eyes more rule changes, will experiment in Atlantic League 3:02 PM ET Associated Press PHOENIX -- Major League Baseball isn't done tinkering with potential rule changes for the sport. The league announced a series of experimental rules Tuesday that will be used in the Atlantic League this season, including a designated pinch runner, "double-hook" designated hitter rule and further limitations on a pitcher's ability to make pick-off moves. The designated pinch runner rule allows a player who is not in the starting lineup to be used at any point of the game as a substitute baserunner. The player who was subbed out, as well as the pinch runner, would still be able to return to the game. The "double-hook" designated hitter rule allows teams to use the DH throughout the game as long as the starting pitcher throws at least five innings. If that doesn't occur, than the team loses it's DH and the pitcher's spot would bat for the remainder of the game. The rule was also used in the Atlantic League last season. There's also a single disengagement rule, which means pitchers can only take their foot off the rubber once per at-bat to attempt a pick-off or reset the pitch clock. The Atlantic League is an independent, minor league that has been a designated MLB Partner League since 2019, helping the sport test new rules. Some of the rules have stuck and eventually been used in the big leagues, while others haven't. MLB has debuted a series of rules changes this season that were tested throughout the minors, including the Atlantic League. The new pitch clock has shaved about 30 minutes off game times through the season's first three weeks, while limits on the infield shift and bigger bases have helped boost offense. "We thank the Atlantic League for their continued partnership," said Morgan Sword, MLB's Vice President of Baseball Operations, in a statement. "In recent years, the ALPB's experimental rules have aimed to emphasize athleticism, improved pace of play and other means of giving fans the game they want to see."

Edgy MD Apr 18 2023 01:24 PM Re: Get ready for the shitshow

Shit fuck and shitfuck. This is fundamentally undermining the philosophical foundation of baseball. The Atlantic League, allowing themselves to be used as lab rats, should be ashamed.

Benjamin Grimm Apr 18 2023 01:26 PM Re: Get ready for the shitshow

Based on past history, I have to assume that all of these changes will eventually make it to MLB. I agree with Edgy. The rule that once you're out of the game you're out of the game is fundamental, and I see no reason to get rid of it. And why the double-hook rule? I like that it (seemingly?) would result in fewer DH at bats, but I wonder what the motivation for it is.

MFS62 Apr 18 2023 01:32 PM Re: Get ready for the shitshow

If it ain't broke, don't fix it. What "brokes" are these fixes trying to remedy? Shitfuck is an understatement. Later

Edgy MD Apr 18 2023 01:45 PM Re: Get ready for the shitshow

They keep telling me that they're doing this for "the fans," and I feel like I'm being gaslit. Soccer has, like, six rules.

nymr83 Apr 18 2023 03:12 PM Re: Get ready for the shitshow

I'm pretty sure MLB is paying the Atlantic League for the right to use their games as a petri dish. Someone, or multiple people, are vested in ensuring MLB exercises that the guy, even when there isn't really a need to.