Master Index of Archived Threads


Aggressiveness

Edgy MD Mar 22 2023 01:40 PM

"He hasn't developed his feel for the strike zone yet, but you don't want to take away that aggressiveness." I heard it when José Reyes was coming up, and I heard it when Amed Rosario was coming up — even as both swung at balls from their ankles to their eyebrows, and both ran into developmental hurdles. Now I see Ronny Mauricio hitting 26 homers last year, but pumping out an OBP of only .296, and the refrain carries on. Is there any truth in this? Why wouldn't we want our fastest guys to be learning to lay off of pitches as early in their careers as possible. Is there a double standard? Why is aggressiveness a virtue for black Dominican infielders, but restraint a virtue for David Wright and Brandon Nimmo? That you-can't-walk-off-the-island nonsense has to be universally dismissed by now, but there seems to be some trace elements remaining.

nymr83 Mar 22 2023 03:10 PM Re: Aggressiveness

Edgy MD wrote: "He hasn't developed his feel for the strike zone yet, but you don't want to take away that aggressiveness." I heard it when José Reyes was coming up, and I heard it when Amed Rosario was coming up — even as both swung at balls from their ankles to their eyebrows, and both ran into developmental hurdles. Now I see Ronny Mauricio hitting 26 homers last year, but pumping out an OBP of only .296, and the refrain carries on. Is there any truth in this? Why wouldn't we want our fastest guys to be learning to lay off of pitches as early in their careers as possible. Is there a double standard? Why is aggressiveness a virtue for black Dominican infielders, but restraint a virtue for David Wright and Brandon Nimmo? That you-can't-walk-off-the-island nonsense has to be universally dismissed by now, but there seems to be some trace elements remaining. I don't think "you can't walk off the island" is nonsense. You can't walk off the high school diamond either. How many powerless high draft picks do we see? probably on par with the number of powerless big international bonuses. Drawing walks, once you make it to the minors in the US, is a virtuous thing sure, but the difference seems to be in who is being taught to be more selective at a younger age and who isn't - not that the major league teams are somehow promoting different virtues for different players in their systems.

Edgy MD Mar 22 2023 03:41 PM Re: Aggressiveness

=nymr83 post_id=120381 time=1679519446 user_id=54]... but the difference seems to be in who is being taught to be more selective at a younger age and who isn't - not that the major league teams are somehow promoting different virtues for different players in their systems.

I think I'm seeing the distinction between these two descriptions, but I can't suss it out. Can you restate?

nymr83 Mar 22 2023 06:14 PM Re: Aggressiveness

Ok, a different angle maybe - Aggressiveness (or, displaying "reckless power") is viewed as a good thing for 16 year olds - but not so much for 23 year olds. the 23 year old American prospects have either learned to draw walks or we never heard of them because they never got drafted in the first round at 18 out of high school or 21 out of college. Meanwhile, the 23 year old dominican with that same skill set is on our minds because we know he got a huge bonus at 16 years old. This isn't to say that Dominicans overall are getting too much money, only that the money would be distributed somewhat differently if we waited to distribute it at 18 or 21 as we do American prospects - who actually get more money if they prove to have learned additional necessary skills at 18 or 21.

Frayed Knot Mar 22 2023 06:33 PM Re: Aggressiveness

Just as there's a difference between street basketball vs YMCA gym ball, I think there's also a difference in how the game is first learned. Are you learning baseball as s a child by way of pickup games with friends where rules are improvised and swinging is preferred over standing by watching close pitches go by? Or are you learning via structured games complete with uniforms, umpires, and coaches? The former is more likely the Caribbean way with an 'if you can reach it, hit it' mentality while the latter more likely the route for the modern day American. That doesn't mean those generalities are exclusive to your birth place or that you shouldn't want to get the best of both worlds when a player gets into organized professional ball, no matter what route he took to get there.

Edgy MD Mar 22 2023 08:28 PM Re: Aggressiveness

Sure, but when the guy is a 20-year-old big leaguer, who has been off the sandlots and playing academy ball since he was 15, and pro-ball since 16 or so, hearing the guys in the booth say "You don't want to take away his aggressiveness," sure seems like a misfire to me.