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The Time of Game Thread

Frayed Knot Apr 06 2023 07:21 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Apr 07 2023 05:09 AM

You knew this was coming at some point, didn't you? Obviously it's too early to draw any long term conclusions as far as to where the average game time will wind up by the end of the year so we'll have a chance to follow along as it goes. But the early results with the new rules have been far larger than anything I expected. So rather than just rely on average game time, I'll give you this comparison between the first week of games this year compared to 2017 when I nerdily kept some stats for the entire season. - In 2017 there were 19 games that finished in 2:20 or under; that's 19 out of 2,245 (9 inning) total games played - So far in 2023, just eight days into the season, there have already been 17 (of 87). So that's 0.8% vs 19.5% By the end of today's games, even with all the rain outs, this year will likely surpass the 2017 total. Move to 2:30 or under and it's 95 games for the entire 2017 season (4.2%) vs 32 (36.8%) to date this year.

whippoorwill Apr 06 2023 07:51 PM Re: The Time of Game Thread

That is very encouraging!

Frayed Knot Apr 06 2023 08:47 PM Re: The Time of Game Thread

Well, the early results are certainly encouraging. On the other hand it's more than a bit discouraging in that, for decades, they ignored an ongoing and growing problem that was so easily fixable.

Fman99 Apr 07 2023 07:19 AM Re: The Time of Game Thread

I do like the faster pace of games, though I'll admit that the radio broadcasters seem particularly rushed to be both anecdotal and timely in their game updates. They'll adjust too, I suppose.

metirish Apr 07 2023 07:32 AM Re: The Time of Game Thread

I wonder what the shortest/quickest game will be this season

Frayed Knot Apr 08 2023 08:42 AM Re: The Time of Game Thread

Friday's NYM game: 12 Runs, 12 Hits, 16 BBs, 18 K, with 11 pitchers used throwing a combined 338 pitches Friday's Yanx/O's game: 13 Runs, 19 Hits, 11 BBs, 19 K, with 11 pitchers throwing 318 pitches Time of Game: 3:01 & 3:04 Is there any doubt that, even with the home team winning both so only 8-1/2 innings, the T.O.G. of those two played in recent years starts with a 4 ?

Frayed Knot Apr 12 2023 05:23 PM Re: The Time of Game Thread

I wonder what the shortest/quickest game will be this season Probably nothing that will challenge the 51 minute record for shortest ever, but I bet we see an increase in sub-2:00 games. One other thing I've noticed so far from watching games via tape delay as I've done several times now as mid-week day games and rescheduled tilts pile up early in the year: the between innings time limits are absolutely being adhered to much more closely. Prior to this year we've been hearing for years if not decades that they're going to pay closer attention to the supposed standards [2:00 between halves for commercials then another five seconds for the announcers to re-set the scene in front of the first pitch. But, despite the promises, the return to "action" meant that we were more likely to see the pitcher still taking his warmups, the batter not yet out of the on deck circle because his walk-up music hadn't started, and the HP ump hadn't yet finished his cigarette. OK, I made up that last part but it was still often a good 20 seconds after the ads ended that we finally saw the inning's first pitch. Now if you go even slightly over the proscribed two minutes with your fast-forwarding through the commercials, you're likely to have missed a pitch or two. Now I believe the Yanquis are still granted 14 minutes between the top and bottom of the 7th during home games, but one step at a time folks.

MFS62 Apr 12 2023 05:43 PM Re: The Time of Game Thread

Frayed Knot wrote: Now I believe the Yanquis are still granted 14 minutes between the top and bottom of the 7th during home games, but one step at a time folks. Their fans deserve that punishment. Later

Frayed Knot Apr 17 2023 06:33 AM Re: The Time of Game Thread

So there have been 215 nine-inning games played to date this season. Six (2.8%) have run longer than 3:10 In 2017 that percentage was just shy of 40% meaning that, on days with a full schedule on tap, MLB averaged six games >3:10 per day.

Edgy MD Apr 17 2023 06:36 AM Re: The Time of Game Thread

I tend to think that this was still do-able without turning the game over to a clock.

Frayed Knot Apr 17 2023 07:57 AM Re: The Time of Game Thread

I don't think it could have to this degree. I was long on the record here with saying that my preferred road was to require minor leaguers to learn under clock rules and eventually those who came up without constant stepping-out and other time-wasting tics would eventually become the norm so that dead time could be excised without a clock. But MLB simply pretended this wasn't problem for far too long until suddenly deciding that drastic action was their only choice. And all this is still without my two favorite targets: a further reduction of permitted dugout-to-mound visits plus an elimination of additional warmup pitches for quicker in-inning pitching changes, both of which could have at least partially reduced the dependency on a pitch timer. But the results so far have been beyond anything I expected -- games 2:40 and under have gone from 12% of all 9-inning games played to 60% -- and it's entirely due to taking a handful of seconds out of something that happens 250 or more times per game.

batmagadanleadoff Apr 17 2023 09:04 AM Re: The Time of Game Thread

I posted many times that it would mainly be a pitch clock that would bring games back to 80s and even maybe 70s time-of-game levels. To me, this was so obvious if I may, for once, toot my own horn. All you hadda do is to watch one or two innings of a 50 year old game on youtube to see this. Back then, the pitcher got the ball and within 10 seconds, was throwing a pitch. The whole game was played at that pace.

Edgy MD Apr 17 2023 09:16 AM Re: The Time of Game Thread

Frayed Knot wrote: I don't think it could have to this degree. I'm not sure this degree is necessarily or definitively optimal. Beyond that, whenever we use [decade in the past] as an analog, we are referencing an era that was not governed by the clock.

batmagadanleadoff Apr 17 2023 09:24 AM Re: The Time of Game Thread

Edgy MD wrote: Beyond that, whenever we use [decade in the past] as an analog, we are referencing an era that was not governed by the clock. That's right. But why bother with a clock back then when games were shorter, pitchers took about 10 seconds to throw a pitch and batters didnt use up a minute in between every pitch invoking their mantras and readjusting every item of apparel and equipment on their bodies?

smg58 Apr 17 2023 09:51 AM Re: The Time of Game Thread

The one concern for me is whether throwing the same amount of pitches over a shorter period of time will increase the stress on pitchers' arms in a way that becomes noticeable by the end of the season. But you can't complain at all about the pace of the games.

Fman99 Apr 17 2023 10:21 AM Re: The Time of Game Thread

Edgy MD wrote: Beyond that, whenever we use [decade in the past] as an analog, we are referencing an era that was not governed by the clock. That's right. But why bother with a clock back then when games were shorter, pitchers took about 10 seconds to throw a pitch and batters didnt use up a minute in between every pitch invoking their mantras and readjusting every item of apparel and equipment on their bodies? Mike Hargrove was the first MLB player that I recall doing the extensive readjusting of the batting gloves in between every pitch. I remember even as a kid thinking that that was some dopey shit.

Frayed Knot Apr 17 2023 02:39 PM Re: The Time of Game Thread

I've probably said this before on this topic, but what I think baseball needed more than anything was an attitude adjustment as over the last (three? four? five?) decades the sport has slowly morphed from a game where the ball was considered 'live' unless otherwise stated to one where things are treated as if it's the other way around. Pitchers and hitters both decided that the game wasn't going to resume until they were good and ready and sometimes had a kind of test of wills as to who would win in a battle to out-wait the other. Think back also to Muffy's 'steal' of 3rd base on a BB in the playoff game vs the Dodgers. He was able to pull that off because LAD 3B Justin Turner, playing in short RF due to a shift, simply put his head down and plodded slowly back towards his usual position as if nothing would happen until the first pitch to the new batter because the game was in 'hold' mode so nothing could happen. That same week in the AL playoffs Rangers 2B Rougned Odor scampered home from 3rd when Blue Jay catcher Russel Martin's throw back to his pitcher clanked off Shin Soo Choo's bat. In that case it was the umps who immediately waived the play dead (they later convened and overturned their initial call) as if now even the time between pitches was considered stopped time. So, if nothing else, I think the new clock rules will at least have the effect of re-establishing the idea that the ball is live unless and until time is called and that players on both sides of the field no longer have unlimited opportunities to simply declare that they're not currently ready to continue.

Frayed Knot Apr 19 2023 08:31 PM Re: The Time of Game Thread

While watching Kershaw the other night it looked like he was delivering every pitch with 6-10 seconds still remaining on the clock. And, funny, it didn't seem to throw him off his game.

Frayed Knot May 03 2023 07:06 AM Re: The Time of Game Thread

As of the close of April MLB is one month and a not-insignificant sample size of 394 nine-inning games into this 'speed-up-the-game' experiment. So let's look at what we've got so far. And while the average time of game we hear every once in a while tells one story, I think some of these numbers expand on that a lot and paint a more complete picture. All data includes nine inning games only Pct of games over 3:00: 8.4% (or right about 1 game in 12) Same figure for the 2017 season: 56.7% (close to 7 of every 12) Over 3:20 = 1.0% (4 total) 2017 = 22.7% Think about that for a moment: 4 games total so far vs nearly one game out of every four Looking at things from the other end: Games 2:40 and under = 60.4% 2:40 and under in 2017: 7.7% Basically going from just over one game per day six seasons ago to now being the norm rather than the exception. 2:20 and under = 61 games or 15.5% (approx 1 game in 6) 2:20 and under 2017: 19 games total or 0.8% So greater than 3x more in just one month compared to an entire season And remember when the 2021 Mets played 10 games in a row that ran over 3:30? (Sept 11 - 22 -- one was an extra inning game) Well the entire league so far has produced just two of those and we've yet to see a four hour game (or even 3:50).

Edgy MD May 03 2023 07:55 AM Re: The Time of Game Thread

MLB.tv is routinely bringing me back from breaks two batters into the next half inning.

Gwreck May 03 2023 09:19 AM Re: The Time of Game Thread

Every time I see this sort of data I think about how awful, terrible, and now completely unjustified the ghost runner rule is.

Frayed Knot May 03 2023 02:11 PM Re: The Time of Game Thread

Edgy MD wrote: MLB.tv is routinely bringing me back from breaks two batters into the next half inning. I haven't noticed that although there have been some close calls. OTOH, commercial and cable stations have been missing first and second pitches on telecasts here and there for decades now so only some of the blame can be hung on speedy play rules. Every time I see this sort of data I think about how awful, terrible, and now completely unjustified the ghost runner rule is. The ghost runner rule is strictly an attempt aimed at saving bullpen arms that's been masquerading as a Covid and/or pace of play rule since 2021. One could make a case for its justification in 2020, but the claims of 'we still need to be vigilant' (2021) and the excuse about how it was needed due to reduced ST time following the lockout (2022) were nothing other than bullshit to give it a three year head start before making a permanent continuation seem like nothing more than carrying on what was already established practice backed up by dubious claims of "the fans love it" so we listened to them! GMs, I'm sure, were mostly the ones pushing for it. Maybe traveling secretaries as well. Oh, and people who hate baseball like it, or at least claim to, because it results in ... wait for it ... Less Baseball!!! And, remember, none of that above data has anything to do with extra inning games no matter what rules were being used. The problem was never that extra inning games took too long it was that it often took over three hours just to get to extra innings. But, like the DH rule, it was brought in as an experimental fix only to hang around, presumably forever, long after the conditions which spawned its birth no longer existed. Transparency and honesty were never part of the story behind either.

Edgy MD May 03 2023 02:53 PM Re: The Time of Game Thread

I don't think the ghost runner is about saving bullpen arms so much as saving ballpark expenses. You got your nine innings, now get the fuck out.

Frayed Knot May 03 2023 05:31 PM Re: The Time of Game Thread

Both can be true, but injured and overused pitchers -- whether that's actual result of more innings thrown or merely a perceived one -- cost teams a lot more than OT for vendors and cleaning crews. btw, Game 1 today: 11 runs, 17 hits, 2:04 Where's that game at the 2:04 mark in recent years? Top 6th maybe?

bmfc1 May 08 2023 06:46 PM Re: The Time of Game Thread

The Pirates' Mitch Keller held the Rockies to 13 fewer runs than the Mets did yesterday as he pitched a complete game shutout and won 2-0 in 1:55.

Frayed Knot May 17 2023 05:04 PM Re: The Time of Game Thread

At approximately the quarter mark of the season (slightly more actually): 9 inning games longer than 3:20 = 5 9 inning games longer than 3:20 in 2017 = 510 So 510 vs on pace for <20 Good thing it only took them multiple decades to realize that they had this growing problem on their hands.

whippoorwill May 18 2023 08:25 AM Re: The Time of Game Thread

This is truly awesome.

Frayed Knot May 29 2023 05:17 AM Re: The Time of Game Thread

Sunday featured two different games with scores of 11-10, plus an 11-4 game and one that wound up 10-7 All four finished in under 3:00

Centerfield May 29 2023 07:44 AM Re: The Time of Game Thread

=Gwreck post_id=124178 time=1683127146 user_id=56] Every time I see this sort of data I think about how awful, terrible, and now completely unjustified the ghost runner rule is.

Yup.

Centerfield May 29 2023 07:45 AM Re: The Time of Game Thread

Edgy MD wrote: I tend to think that this was still do-able without turning the game over to a clock. What would you have tried? Shorter games are good. But still hate the clock.

Edgy MD May 29 2023 08:20 AM Re: The Time of Game Thread

Umpire enforcement. Hasn't tennis worked well that way? Nobody is timed and we aren't asked to watch seconds ticking away, but if a guy is trying to abuse people's patience and is stall, the guy in the chair has no qualms about saying "Get on the line and serve — if this keeps up, I'm docking you a point." The umps obviously been little good at controlling time abuses in the past, but that's not really what they've been trained for, and that's not what has gotten them in trouble if they've failed to do it. It's been an ancillary part of their job. But with much and perhaps all of their judgment calls to be taken away in the near future by technology, this could be the direction in which their role evolves — enforcing pace of play and enforcing sportsmanship. The results in time are undeniable. Congratulations to all involved for that. I just tend to ask myself whether what I'm seeing is a more fully realized version of baseball. Universal DH — a less fully realized version of baseball. Any DH — a less fully realized version of baseball. Free runner on second in extra innings — a ridiculously less fully realized version of baseball. Mandatory positioning of fielders in a zone — a less fully realized version of baseball disguised to look like a more fully realized version of baseball. Roster expansion — the impact is dulled by the universal application of the DH, but this is also a less fully realized version of baseball. Bigger bases — low-impact thus far, but tinkering for tinkering's sake is foolish and invites long-term outcomes that we cannot see. So that leaves the clock. Huzzah for the games being adjusted in length. But I think we have to acknowledge that (1) it's part of the infrastructure that has allowed the above changes (some of them quite perverse) to be Trojan-horsed in. And I think the unintended consequences are only beginning to be seen. These may or may not include (but in some cases seemingly already are including) shorter workdays for starting pitchers; disproportionate impact on older pitchers; adverse health and safety outcomes; a more and a more burned out pitching staff as we work through the hot months. Much of that is certainly speculative. The Mets pitchers are performing poorly under the regime and it is (and will be) way to easy to project that onto the new rules. But when I see a batter ready, and a pitcher ready, and a pitch is thrown, and the outcome of that pitch is discounted because there's been a violation called because the pitch came in 12.5 seconds instead of 12, and there's confusion over whether the violation was on the pitcher or the batter, and everybody feels like they were acting in good faith, but they don't know who to be mad at because they feel like the opposition was more-or-less acting in good faith too, I feel like I'm watching a less fully realized version of baseball. It feels like the equivalent of an automated system that mails you a ticket for going 17 in a 15-mph zone several days ago, that you can scarcely piece together enough of the context to dispute, but you really feel like you were honoring the law, because it's your neighborhood too, but you can't fight the fucking homeowner's association, but $75 is a lot of money. Is that camera really about safety or about that $$? But from your perspective, disputing the damned thing will cost more than $75, so you grit your teeth and take it, just as your neighbors all over the HOA's district are doing. And knowing how baseball is talked about in fora such as these, we know that players aren't just competing against each other, but competing against history, and that competition is dulled when drastic rule changes affect the nature of the game. It's a less fully realize version of the historical game of baseball. So yes, keep things moving. But I think umps can make batters get in the box, make pitchers get on the rubber, tell Derek Jeter to put his stupid hand down, and tell the pitcher to throw without a clock. When we turn governance over to the machines, we get the rules without the spirit that first animated them into existence, and they become rules for their own sake.

MFS62 Jun 07 2023 05:23 PM Re: The Time of Game Thread

https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/352273318_1285376468732564_4167963431428637154_n.png?stp=dst-png_p843x403&_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=DHPjapEaDLoAX-x204G&_nc_ht=scontent-lga3-1.xx&oh=00_AfANV4ERM9-i_HDkatPk9vZNKm2Tl8IbavsPHuD2ipCP3g&oe=64860F36> Later

Frayed Knot Jun 12 2023 03:30 PM Re: The Time of Game Thread

So the just completed weekend series in YSIII was the first for Yanx/Sawx this year. And the ToGs were: 2:28, 2:29, and an extended commercial time (for ESPN/SNB) with extra innings to boot which went 2:51 Now all the games were low scoring so that helped a bit but only one of the three was won by the home team in 8-1/2 and one, as mentioned, went 10. And besides, we all know that those two squads have spent years turning games with an average 3-1/2 runs scored into 3-1/2 hour affairs with no trouble at all, so the combined 7:48 would, in past years, have likely clocked in somewhere north of 10 hours with no trouble at all.