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What, Me Worry?

Fman99 Apr 12 2023 05:30 AM

With respect to the recently passed Al Jaffee of MAD Magazine, are we worried yet about this lineup? Starling Marte is the only regular with an average over .250. Aside from the Piss Missile no Met has even 2 HRs. Of 30 teams, Mets are currently 27th in BA and 27th in SLG. That's pretty damn bad.

whippoorwill Apr 12 2023 05:33 AM Re: What, Me Worry?

Yes it is. How is the pitching doing? I guess with fewo ninth inning leads the loss of Diaz hasn't been huge so far

MFS62 Apr 12 2023 07:44 AM Re: What, Me Worry?

Me worry. Later

Lefty Specialist Apr 12 2023 08:08 AM Re: What, Me Worry?

Not worried yet. Small sample size. I don't think the Rays will be going 162-0 either. But it would be nice to string together a couple of double-digit-hit games.

cal sharpie Apr 12 2023 08:21 AM Re: What, Me Worry?

To be fair, McNeil is hitting .256 joining Marte in the over-.250 club. But, yeah, it looks like Carrasco might be cooked and the bullpen worries me. That on top of a not-great offense is concerning. Ask again after the west coast trip.

kcmets Apr 12 2023 08:32 AM Re: What, Me Worry?

Much more worried about pitching. This team will hit, and when they do, watch out!!

Lefty Specialist Apr 12 2023 09:06 AM Re: What, Me Worry?

Cookie does look cooked. Really needs a bounceback start. I wonder if there's an undisclosed injury involved, as he seems to run out of gas early in games.

Edgy MD Apr 12 2023 10:31 AM Re: What, Me Worry?

I worry about oddly colored skin tabs. And monkey uprisings. I don't worry that the Mets have the personnel to play as well as anybody. Whether they'll execute wisely or effectively is what remains to be seen. But that's always.

MFS62 Apr 12 2023 10:32 AM Re: What, Me Worry?

Lefty Specialist wrote: Cookie does look cooked. Really needs a bounceback start. I wonder if there's an undisclosed injury involved, as he seems to run out of gas early in games. Age? Later

batmagadanleadoff Apr 12 2023 11:46 AM Re: What, Me Worry?

FiveThirtyEight.com isn't worried. The Mets Assembled The Most Expensive Baseball Team Ever. Is That Enough To Make Them MLB's Best Team? Excerpt: All of which is to say: The Mets are not likely to remain a picture of mediocrity, although early injuries to their old and expensive pitching staff could certainly turn into a longer-term problem. At the moment, the Amazins are subject to the same noise that all of MLB's less-expensive teams face, too. In some areas, April volatility has even been good to the Mets. They were third in the league in Defensive Runs Saved through Monday's games, despite a fielding configuration that changed very little after finishing a few runs below average in 2022. Maybe the Mets have figured some things out in their efforts to turn batted balls into outs. Either way, all forms of regression to the mean should come soon enough. That will mostly be a good thing for the Mets — and the guy who spent all that cheddar trying to make them great. Read it all at: https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/mets-payroll-slow-start-2023/

smg58 Apr 12 2023 12:11 PM Re: What, Me Worry?

The hits will come. And I'll see how the pitching looks at that point before I start worrying about that.

batmagadanleadoff Apr 12 2023 12:11 PM Re: What, Me Worry?

What really worries me is that if this keeps up, Alonso's gonna have 68 HR's by the end of this season. Halavah.

Edgy MD Apr 12 2023 12:39 PM Re: What, Me Worry?

He just moved that marker.

batmagadanleadoff Apr 12 2023 12:48 PM Re: What, Me Worry?

75 HR's. It's Pete's destiny to best whatever Aaron Judge does. Now I'm really worried. Mehhhhhhhhhhlvin!

metirish Apr 12 2023 03:34 PM Re: What, Me Worry?

My state of worry is unfortunately game to game

Frayed Knot Apr 12 2023 05:04 PM Re: What, Me Worry?

So for all our worrying so far (not all of it unjustified) they've won three series out of four played so far this season so things can't be considered a total disaster. OK so that one series loss was a disaster (two of the three games anyway) and they've already burned more than half of their games vs the Marlins for the year. But, still, any series win is a nice thing to have so let's take it and move on.

batmagadanleadoff Apr 12 2023 05:53 PM Re: What, Me Worry?

Frayed Knot wrote: So for all our worrying so far (not all of it unjustified) they've won three series out of four played so far this season so things can't be considered a total disaster. OK so that one series loss was a disaster (two of the three games anyway) and they've already burned more than half of their games vs the Marlins for the year. But, still, any series win is a nice thing to have so let's take it and move on. I'm not saying anything is a disaster, yet, (other than Diaz's injury) but that stuff about winning series always rang empty for me. I mean, if a team wins every series, that's one thing, and a good thing, But this season, so far, the Mets are 3-1 in series, yet only one game over .500. It's the games, not the series. Just like winning "two out of three" drives me fucking nuts. So what's a team to do after they've won the first two games of a series? Lose the third game on purpose? Take its' foot off the gas pedal a bit? Relax? To fulfill the two out of three stupid meme because it already won two games?

TransMonk Apr 18 2023 05:41 PM Re: What, Me Worry?

Are we going to run out of pitchers? It's only April 18.

MFS62 Apr 18 2023 05:55 PM Re: What, Me Worry?

=TransMonk post_id=122814 time=1681861309 user_id=71] Are we going to run out of pitchers? It's only April 18.

Every time my phone rings I reach for my glove.

Later

Edgy MD Apr 18 2023 05:56 PM Re: What, Me Worry?

Two Truths: 1) There are always plenty of pitchers. 2) You can always use more pitchers. But hey! They still haven't even launched their greatest weapon!

Johnny Lunchbucket Apr 27 2023 08:26 AM Re: What, Me Worry?

I'm a little WERRIED. Lost 4 in a row to not so good SF and Wash teams, the fielding has started to slip, and the starting pitching is as weak as its been in years. This whole weekend looks rainy too

ashie62 Apr 27 2023 08:59 AM Re: What, Me Worry?

Until the rotation settles into something resembling a routine they will scuffle Verlander and Max should be fine. Carrasco is anyone's guess

Edgy MD Apr 27 2023 11:55 AM Re: What, Me Worry?

Until they score, the starting pitching can be Walter Johnson, Satchell Paige, Tom Seaver, Sandy Koufax, and me, and they still won't win. It's interesting to see how Nimmo-dependent the O is. When he hits, they win handily, and when he don't, not so much.

kcmets May 12 2023 07:39 AM Re: What, Me Worry?

Where's that worry thread? They're only one game out of the last playoff spot. Welcome to watered down baseball. What I worry about more than the playoffs is that the Mets will suck bad enough this season that it'll turn off Ohtani from wanting to come and play here. BBRdotcom still has them as a wildcard here... MLB Playoff Odds

metsmarathon May 12 2023 08:10 AM Re: What, Me Worry?

so, like, what'd we do so wrong over the offseason to put us where we are right now? it's not like our new additions are all that much the problem, and our prospective-additions-that-weren't aren't exactly lighting the world on fire. i think the only pitcher that was potentially tied to the mets that looks like a missed opportunity was nate eovaldi, right? but if megill and peterson weren't hot garbage alongside carrasco, that wouldn't be quite as big of a miss, would it? if those two were doing what they should, the fragility of our older pitchers and the growing pains of senga wouldn't hurt as much. the offense could use vientos and mauricio possibly coming up and hopefully producing - like the reliable producers that rookies always are - but the real problem is escobar, marte, nido, and canha all sucking bhmc, with a side suck of underwhelming inconsistency from the top of our roster. thoughts?

Edgy MD May 12 2023 08:44 AM Re: What, Me Worry?

Not all problems are solved in the offseason. Not all answers can be found there. Capitalism may tell you that amassing acquisitions from a limited marketplace alone is the path forward. Capitalism lies.

ashie62 May 12 2023 09:26 AM Re: What, Me Worry?

They can take care of this from within I'd like to see half of the money spent in the off-season and use it to cure a disease

Frayed Knot May 12 2023 10:08 AM Re: What, Me Worry?

Lindor isn't hitting nearly as well as 2022 Neither is Marte, Cahna, Escobar, or anyone who wears a catcher's mask. On the mound side of things, Scherzer isn't pitching as well or as often, ditto Carrasco. No Bassitt, no Diaz. And two of the three mound additions have pitched very briefly so far or not at all. Those are the bigger problems rather than who might have been left on the cutting room floor. Trying to remake a team on the fly via older, big ticket acquisitions, as Unca Steve is doing so far, is a risky route to take and it worked a whole lot better last year than it is so far on this one.

MFS62 May 12 2023 11:32 AM Re: What, Me Worry?

So at what point should that worry turn into real concern that they can't turn it around? 4th of July? The All Star Break? Later

metsmarathon May 12 2023 12:55 PM Re: What, Me Worry?

we may already be at that point. or this might just be a shit stretch of bad baseball by a good team. i'll panic come memorial day. or tomorrow. whichever feels more right.

Tamora May 13 2023 06:14 PM Re: What, Me Worry?

Below is the slugging percentage for the Mets (team rankings.com), as mentioned with batting average above being poor, the worrying thing I noticed checking out some of these stats is we've recently being losing to most of these sides and are scheduled to play the monstrously good Rays and Guardians who are worrying below us. Is this another side like Detroit and Cincy that are going to use the Mets to get their bats hot? I'm a little concerned this habit of losing may continue for another 2-3 weeks. How long can any semblance of morale be maintained within the clubhouse when expectations are so high? There are bright spots like Baty, Alvarez, Sengas progression, Verlander and decent bull pen pitching with an unreasonably high workload. If they can string some wins together, win a series again I think they can still get it going. Yet the clock is running. 21 NY Mets 0.382 22 Minnesota 0.381 23 Chi Sox 0.381 24 Cincinnati 0.379 25 Miami 0.379 26 Seattle 0.373 27 Houston 0.367 28 Detroit 0.359 29 Washington 0.358 30 Cleveland 0.333

Edgy MD May 13 2023 07:41 PM Re: What, Me Worry?

Losing always effects morale. I don't know about expectations.

kcmets May 13 2023 07:45 PM Re: What, Me Worry?

=metsmarathon post_id=125209 time=1683917702 user_id=83]i'll panic come memorial day. or tomorrow. whichever feels more right.

Me too. And I reserve the right to change my mind hourly.

Lefty Specialist May 13 2023 07:53 PM Re: What, Me Worry?

Not exactly sold on Senga yet. They're going to burn out this bullpen at this rate of use. Pitchers have to go for more than 5 innings, something they haven't really been able to do yet.The hitting has been atrocious pretty much up and down the lineup, too. This all needs to get fixed soon or we'll be looking at The Worst Team Money Can Buy 2.0.

MFS62 May 14 2023 09:53 AM Re: What, Me Worry?

Carrasco is scheduled to start his second rehab game today for Binghamton. Later

Centerfield May 15 2023 04:50 PM Re: What, Me Worry?

Um. The Mets kinda suck.

MFS62 May 15 2023 05:02 PM Re: What, Me Worry?

When you keep losing to bad teams, are you one of them? Beginning to wonder. Later

kcmets May 15 2023 06:52 PM Re: What, Me Worry?

Things could be worse, at least Atlanta cooled a bit or the Mets could be like 13-14 games back instead of just the half dozen or so. Maybe a home series against one of the best teams (right now) will be just what the doctor ordered and that'll right the ship. Or Verlander's arm could fall off tomorrow. Stay tuned...

Edgy MD May 15 2023 09:05 PM Re: What, Me Worry?

I worry about AI too.

Lefty Specialist May 16 2023 05:59 AM Re: What, Me Worry?

Sooooo.......sellers at the trade deadline? This team is lifeless.

Edgy MD May 16 2023 06:26 AM Re: What, Me Worry?

Long time to make that decision, but I'm guessing no.

ashie62 May 16 2023 07:04 AM Re: What, Me Worry?

Not sellers Buyers Lance Lynn Giolito Wainwright and other SP's will likely be on the radar

Edgy MD May 16 2023 07:19 AM Re: What, Me Worry?

With the expanded post-season, the market at the deadline will largely be far less dramatic in coming years.

Frayed Knot May 16 2023 09:45 AM Re: What, Me Worry?

Sellers in terms of mid-range and shorter term players [Cahna, Marte, Escobar, various catchers] who could potentially be replaced by the likes of Vientos and/or Mauricio ... but that could happen win, lose, or draw.

Edgy MD May 16 2023 09:55 AM Re: What, Me Worry?

Cahna, Marte and Escobar are probably their three hottest hitters right now, but I'm pretty certain they'd take almost anything they could get for the first and third of those right now, deadline-shmeadline. Maybe Pham is on the block also, but I'm not sure my attitude toward that guy is shared.

MFS62 May 16 2023 10:22 AM Re: What, Me Worry?

Edgy MD wrote: Maybe Pham is on the block also, but I'm not sure my attitude toward that guy is shared. (raising hand) I share it. Later

kcmets May 18 2023 02:01 PM Re: What, Me Worry?

Still a game under .500.

ashie62 Jun 04 2023 02:34 PM Re: What, Me Worry?

17 days later and even This is about the time last season the Phillies made big changes and ran it to the series Buck is not going anywhere but I don't sense much energy or urgency coming from the guy LGM

The Hot Corner Jun 04 2023 05:34 PM Re: What, Me Worry?

This time really needs some shaking up. I am starting to think last season was a mirage, where everything gelled and fell into place (at least until late September). The loss of Diaz has been huge and has had a dominoe effect on the bullpen, but that alone can not account for the Mets lackluster performance. The offense just has not been sufficient (even with the addition of Alvarez and Baty) for the majority of the season. The loss of Diaz completely changes the bullpen dynamic, but not much can be done about that right now. The offense really needs a boost. I would send Vientos back down and give Mauricio a shot. He could spell Lindor (who definitely could use a day or two off) as well as take some at bats at DH. I'm not sure there is an answer to the pitching other Max and Verlander both turning back the clock. Unfortunately, even that isn't likely to make enough difference. Senga needs more consistency (and he needs to stop walking so many hitters). Then there is the lack of quality innings from Megill and Peterson. They just haven't provided the rotation depth that is needed for a team to be successful. The failure of the starting rotation to reasonably go 6-7 innings has caused overworking of the bullpen, which lacks the depth to pitch 4 or more innings on a regular basis.

kcmets Jun 04 2023 05:47 PM Re: What, Me Worry?

Sweep the Braves, move on from there...

metirish Jun 05 2023 05:27 AM Re: What, Me Worry?

=kcmets post_id=127614 time=1685922447 user_id=53] Sweep the Braves, move on from there...

I like it

Fman99 Jun 05 2023 06:14 AM Re: What, Me Worry?

I prefer my Mets teams to be less toilety than this

ashie62 Jun 05 2023 05:07 PM Re: What, Me Worry?

The Hot Corner wrote: This time really needs some shaking up. I am starting to think last season was a mirage, where everything gelled and fell into place (at least until late September). The loss of Diaz has been huge and has had a dominoe effect on the bullpen, but that alone can not account for the Mets lackluster performance. The offense just has not been sufficient (even with the addition of Alvarez and Baty) for the majority of the season. The loss of Diaz completely changes the bullpen dynamic, but not much can be done about that right now. The offense really needs a boost. I would send Vientos back down and give Mauricio a shot. He could spell Lindor (who definitely could use a day or two off) as well as take some at bats at DH. I'm not sure there is an answer to the pitching other Max and Verlander both turning back the clock. Unfortunately, even that isn't likely to make enough difference. Senga needs more consistency (and he needs to stop walking so many hitters). Then there is the lack of quality innings from Megill and Peterson. They just haven't provided the rotation depth that is needed for a team to be successful. The failure of the starting rotation to reasonably go 6-7 innings has caused overworking of the bullpen, which lacks the depth to pitch 4 or more innings on a regular basis. All successful teams gel at some point and hopefully the Mets will before 2023 ends They brought up three kids. Alvarez is a future all star. Baty is struggling, Vientos just got here so who knows I would play Vientos everyday and find out once and for all if he is the goods or more a 4A type Mauricio is learning 2b and probably needs more time in AAA It seems easier to find available options to jump start an offense rather than a pitching staff, on an internal basis anyway I don't see Canha Pham and Vogelbach all remaining Mets after the trade deadline. I would be surprised if they didn't go for a top line SP rental or better. I am not thinking about Ohtani, yet LGM

MFS62 Jun 05 2023 05:37 PM Re: What, Me Worry?

I heard the Mets will start trying Mauricio out in the outfield. That might provide the flexibility to his skillset that he needs to be brought up. Later

ashie62 Jun 06 2023 04:16 PM Re: What, Me Worry?

Mauricio got hurt. He was "blocking" second on a steal attempt and he sprained his ankle. He walked off on his but who knows

Edgy MD Jun 06 2023 04:47 PM Re: What, Me Worry?

He walked off on his butt.

DocTee Jun 07 2023 03:57 AM Re: What, Me Worry?

This team is just not very good. With more than a third of the season down, they are closer to the division basement than to first place, and find themselves looking up at teams such as Pittsburgh and San Francisco. I keep waiting for them to go on a tear, but I'm not sure they have a "ten wins in twelve games" type of stretch in them.

batmagadanleadoff Jun 07 2023 04:38 AM Re: What, Me Worry?

This team is just not very good. With more than a third of the season down, they are closer to the division basement than to first place, and find themselves looking up at teams such as Pittsburgh and San Francisco. I keep waiting for them to go on a tear, but I'm not sure they have a "ten wins in twelve games" type of stretch in them. Could've been even worse. Had the Mets signed both deGrom and Trevor Bauer, they probably wouldn't have either Scherzer or Verlander right now. They kinda got lucky there, in hindsight.

metirish Jun 07 2023 05:57 AM Re: What, Me Worry?

Looking like a team that will hover just about above .500 all season

ashie62 Jun 07 2023 06:29 AM Re: What, Me Worry?

This team is just not very good. With more than a third of the season down, they are closer to the division basement than to first place, and find themselves looking up at teams such as Pittsburgh and San Francisco. I keep waiting for them to go on a tear, but I'm not sure they have a "ten wins in twelve games" type of stretch in them. Could've been even worse. Had the Mets signed both deGrom and Trevor Bauer, they probably wouldn't have either Scherzer or Verlander right now. They kinda got lucky there, in hindsight. Good point, hard to see in the moment

kcmets Jun 08 2023 10:58 AM Re: What, Me Worry?

From an IGT, but wanted to put it here... Edgy MD wrote: This team is going to be alright. Basically with you, but geez 8 1/2 out tomorrow is getting too close to double digits for my early-June fan mood.

Benjamin Grimm Jun 08 2023 11:01 AM Re: What, Me Worry?

Well, they don't have to finish in first place. Or even in second place. With the expanded playoff field, one hot month can change their fortunes dramatically. And they appear to have the talent to have a hot month.

kcmets Jun 08 2023 11:25 AM Re: What, Me Worry?

Sure, but it would nice to not have the Braves win the division every year.

Edgy MD Jun 08 2023 11:45 AM Re: What, Me Worry?

That won't happen. Credit to the Braves though. I'd really like to know how they do it, calling up players with half the seasoning of other team's prospects, and having them arrive fully ready to perform at top level.

batmagadanleadoff Jun 08 2023 12:02 PM Re: What, Me Worry?

Edgy MD wrote: Credit to the Braves though. I'd really like to know how they do it, calling up players with half the seasoning of other team's prospects, and having them arrive fully ready to perform at top level. I know, right? It seems every year, there's a new Brave rookie or sophomore that's a star, or even MVP/Cy caliber. It's scouting, drafting and then development. It's what the Dodgers have been doing for a decade now. It's what Steve Cohen wants to do. That sounds great- only it's not gonna happen just because Cohen wants it to happen.And you gotta be real lucky, too.

batmagadanleadoff Jun 08 2023 12:05 PM Re: What, Me Worry? Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jun 08 2023 12:07 PM

Edgy MD wrote: Credit to the Braves though. I'd really like to know how they do it, calling up players with half the seasoning of other team's prospects, and having them arrive fully ready to perform at top level. I know, right? It seems every year, there's a new Brave rookie or sophomore that's a star, or even MVP/Cy caliber. It's scouting, drafting and then development. It's what the Dodgers have been doing for a decade now. It's what Steve Cohen wants to do. That sounds great- only it's not gonna happen just because Cohen wants it to happen.And you gotta be real lucky, too. And give the Braves big credit for not pursuing deGrom 'cause you gotta assume that the Braves were one of deGrom's preferred teams.

kcmets Jun 08 2023 12:07 PM Re: What, Me Worry?

Edgy MD wrote: That won't happen. Where's your guts and your will to survive Just want to keep divisional hopes alive [YOUTUBE]zB1cg9tAeYY[/YOUTUBE]

Centerfield Jun 09 2023 04:47 AM Re: What, Me Worry?

=Centerfield post_id=125561 time=1684191000 user_id=65] Um. The Mets kinda suck.

I take this back. The Mets outright suck.

Johnny Lunchbucket Jun 09 2023 07:28 AM Re: What, Me Worry?

The pitching sucks. We scored enough to have won any of the Braves games

Edgy MD Jun 09 2023 07:43 AM Re: What, Me Worry?

That's, of course, half good news, especially considering the young star at the peak of his powers the Braves went with on the mound last night. Not long ago (a week or two), folks were wondering where the offense was going to come from. Last night, everybody but Vientos had his bat going. It looked like a game where the Mets would run out of bullets, and they ran out of bullets. They need to find more bullets.

MFS62 Jun 09 2023 08:42 AM Re: What, Me Worry?

Johnny Lunchbucket wrote: The pitching sucks. We scored enough to have won any of the Braves games They had three run leads in each game. Later

ashie62 Jun 09 2023 10:13 AM Re: What, Me Worry?

I have focused too much on fixing the offense. The pitching is bad from top to bottom and hard to address until the trade deadline Too many players on the wrong side of 30, which is why I advocate promoting Mauricio when possible Yesterday was not the first time Marte let a ball get behind he nor is he alone. Are the unforced errors a symptom of a team that is not prepared to play 30-33. Can they go 60-39 to get to 90 wins??

kcmets Jun 09 2023 10:23 AM Re: What, Me Worry?

30-33. Can they go 60-39 to get to 90 wins?? Magic 8-Ball says, "Not Likely" The Magic 8-Ball is never wrong, sometimes.

metirish Jun 09 2023 10:41 AM Re: What, Me Worry?

Reports (DiComo) say Pete is headed to the IL , no surprise I suppose, Luis is headed to Pittsburgh I'm worried

kcmets Jun 09 2023 10:52 AM Re: What, Me Worry?

Jon Heyman of the New York Post reports there's "real concern" Pete Alonso (wrist) will require a trip to the injured list. Heyman adds that Alonso may miss "a few weeks." The 28-year-old slugger was sent back to New York on Thursday to undergo some additional testing, including an MRI, after being hit by a pitch earlier this week against the Braves. It would be a significant loss for the Mets and fantasy managers if he winds up missing a couple weeks. There should be an official update on his status prior to Friday's game against the Pirates, but fantasy managers should plan on him heading to the injured list. SOURCE: Jon Heyman Jun 9, 2023, 9:05 AM ET

kcmets Jun 09 2023 10:54 AM Re: What, Me Worry?

Anthony DiComo of MLB.com reports the Mets will likely recall Luis Guillorme prior to Friday's series opener against the Pirates. Nothing official yet, but Guillorme is traveling with the Mets to Pittsburgh and appears likely to be summoned back to the majors with Pete Alonso (wrist) heading to the injured list. The 28-year-old infielder offers a ton of defensive versatility, but he's a non-factor from a fantasy perspective. It'll be top prospect Mark Vientos stepping into an everyday role at first base during Alonso's absence. SoURCE: Anthony DiComo Jun 9, 2023, 11:00 AM ET

Edgy MD Jun 09 2023 11:15 AM Re: What, Me Worry?

Thanks for that fantasy analysis, Tony. Gotta see that firstbaseman's mitt of Vogey's.

Benjamin Grimm Jun 09 2023 11:21 AM Re: What, Me Worry?

My heart goes out to the fantasy managers.

metsmarathon Jun 09 2023 11:43 AM Re: What, Me Worry?

damn. we really need pete out there, and i was certainly looking forward to seeing if he could make a real run at 60, or more. get better fuckin' quick, pete, and get back to mashing.

Benjamin Grimm Jun 09 2023 12:06 PM Re: What, Me Worry?

Ken Rosenthal has an article for The Athletic, titled "Rosenthal: If Mets' don't end spiral, would anyone be surprised to see Steve Cohen make changes?" I wanted to see what moves he saw Cohen potentially making, and other than firing Buck Showalter, he didn't say anything at all.

batmagadanleadoff Jun 09 2023 12:21 PM Re: What, Me Worry?

Cohen could DFA Lindor and Verlander and replace them with Guillorme and Lucchesi. Really? Buck's on the hot seat?

MFS62 Jun 09 2023 12:30 PM Re: What, Me Worry? Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jun 09 2023 12:31 PM

In his Grandma's voice, "Stevie, tateleh. Gornicht helfen." Later

Benjamin Grimm Jun 09 2023 12:30 PM Re: What, Me Worry?

I would be surprised if Buck is on the hot seat. I think many people are assuming that Steve Cohen is the second coming of George Steinbrenner. Maybe he is, but I'm not so sure.

ashie62 Jun 09 2023 12:50 PM Re: What, Me Worry?

Are we sure Pete did not break his wrist? It looked horrible when it happened and a result less than a break is a sigh of relief I see Dicomo is suggesting an absence of weeks now

Benjamin Grimm Jun 09 2023 01:15 PM Re: What, Me Worry?

I seem to recall a Mets player a few years ago who had an initial negative x-ray, but then when the swelling went down, subsequent imaging revealed a break.

MFS62 Jun 09 2023 01:27 PM Re: What, Me Worry?

I wanted Buck to give Vientos an extended looksee. But not at this cost. (shudder) Later

kcmets Jun 09 2023 01:39 PM Re: What, Me Worry?

Edgy MD wrote: Thanks for that fantasy analysis, Tony. I think the 'analysis' is by a Rotoworld employee. I should have been more clear where I was quoting from and was lazy posting.

ashie62 Jun 09 2023 01:57 PM Re: What, Me Worry?

With Pete out, possibly for a good while you could do a makeover of sorts here Take the opportunity to promote Mauricio and inject some youth and speed. If he becomes overwhelmed so be it. The Reds are doing this to good effect of late. Mauricio at second and McNeil in left. It could help to jumpstart a turnaround

Edgy MD Jun 09 2023 02:19 PM Re: What, Me Worry?

I'm not going to say "so be it" about doing damage to a player's development, though I'm sure Ronny Mauricio will appear soon enough.

batmagadanleadoff Jun 09 2023 02:46 PM Re: What, Me Worry?

For all of rbe money Cohen's spent on payroll, there's only one top tier elite player in his prime on the Mets roster making huge money --- Francisco Lindor. Diaz is out for the season. The payroll money that put the Mets way over the top went to a pair of 40+ year old pitchers who are practically guaranteed to decline in a .Mets uniform. McNeil's hard to figure out Two of his last three seasons are nothing to get excited about.

metirish Jun 09 2023 03:31 PM Re: What, Me Worry?

[TWEET]https://twitter.com/Mets/status/1667268724741529600[/TWEET]

batmagadanleadoff Jun 09 2023 03:41 PM Re: What, Me Worry?

Great news for the 1980 Mets.

ashie62 Jun 09 2023 03:59 PM Re: What, Me Worry?

With Pete down there are opportunities for others

Frayed Knot Jun 09 2023 05:02 PM Re: What, Me Worry?

Among the other post-mortem items from the Braves series is that Atlanta, who start the same lineup every night, hit 7 HRs over the three games from six different lineup slots including the catcher slot twice (Murphy and d'Arnaud). Eddie Rosario along with, oddly, Acuna and Olson, failed to tally. Worse yet is that 6 of the 8 came in the 5th inning or later with Robertson, Ottavino, and Drew Smith each contributing to the carnage. So they got HRs from the #3, 4 (x2), 5, 6, 8, and 9 spots 6, 8, and 9 were game winners

TransMonk Jun 09 2023 06:36 PM Re: What, Me Worry?

In August of last year, I honestly wondered if the 2021 team was the best I had ever witnessed as an adult. Now I feel like they played above their heads to an historic level. Ever get the feeling you've been cheated?

Frayed Knot Jun 09 2023 06:50 PM Re: What, Me Worry?

Has a team ever gone from 101 wins to 101 losses in one season?

Edgy MD Jun 09 2023 07:51 PM Re: What, Me Worry?

Marlins did something like the equivalent, going from 92 wins (and a championship) to 108 losses.

Frayed Knot Jun 10 2023 03:16 AM Re: What, Me Worry?

But they were trying to do that.

ashie62 Jun 10 2023 03:34 AM Re: What, Me Worry?

Yes they were and good morning During the destruction of the Braves at Citi last summer I thought that Mets team was as good or better than almost any I had seen Less than a year later Metsies are on hard times

stevejrogers Jun 10 2023 07:28 AM Re: What, Me Worry?

Edgy MD wrote: Marlins did something like the equivalent, going from 92 wins (and a championship) to 108 losses. Shedding a lot of talent was more the reason for that though. Including having the best catcher of his era for about two weeks!

Edgy MD Jun 10 2023 07:42 AM Re: What, Me Worry?

Hey, the question was the question. There were no caveats. We're all shedding something. Always. But I'll happily wager that the Mets will not lose 101 games this season.

batmagadanleadoff Jun 11 2023 03:50 AM Re: What, Me Worry?

Benjamin Grimm wrote: I would be surprised if Buck is on the hot seat. I think many people are assuming that Steve Cohen is the second coming of George Steinbrenner. Maybe he is, but I'm not so sure. Sensible words from the owner: https://nypost.com/2023/06/10/steve-cohen-not-going-to-blow-up-over-troubling-mets-start/

Edgy MD Jun 11 2023 07:09 AM Re: What, Me Worry?

“I'm trying to be thoughtful about this. And not reactionary. Because I've got enough experience, whether in my business or even in baseball now, to know that when things are going great, you are never as great as you think you are, and when things are going really bad, you are not as bad as you think you are. Things can turn around fairly quickly." Also known as "Y.n.a.g.a.y.t.y.a.w.y.w. Y.n.a.b.a.y.t.y.a.w.y.l." Now if we can just convince him to stop taking his fashion tips from George Santos. [FIMG=500]https://nypost.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2023/06/NYPICHPDPICT000012154295-2.jpg?resize=1024,683&quality=75&strip=all[/FIMG]

nymr83 Jun 11 2023 08:11 AM Re: What, Me Worry?

Lose the jacket. Mark Cuban pulls off "I'm a filthy rich sports owner and always dressed casually but not like a shlub" well, that would be the guy to copy

ashie62 Jun 11 2023 08:37 AM Re: What, Me Worry?

NY Post ran a story quoting Steve Cohen as saying "All jobs are safe" He doesn't see that being reactionary does any good He did say "losing seven games is sort of unimaginable"

kcmets Jun 28 2023 08:17 PM Re: What, Me Worry?

They suck. It happens. Season over.

ashie62 Jun 29 2023 09:58 AM Re: What, Me Worry?

I guess that don't need starting pitching at the deadline Good bye to Tommy Pham Mark Canha Daniel Vogelbach Starling Marte Carlos Carrasco Max Scherzer David Robertson

Edgy MD Jun 29 2023 10:51 AM Re: What, Me Worry?

That's a lot of assuming.

A Boy Named Seo Jun 29 2023 11:58 AM Re: What, Me Worry?

I think trading Max is a possibility. He said he would wave his no-trade for a chance at a World Series and there is a (very small) chance that he could opt out after this season to be a FA again, as unlikely as that is given his salary and performance thus far. But if the Mets think they could get a great prospect or two in exchange for a fully paid-off Scherzer, I absolutely think they would and should do it.

batmagadanleadoff Jun 29 2023 12:12 PM Re: What, Me Worry?

Not one, but two great prospects for Scherzer? And when almost half the teams make the playoffs? What Bizarro alternate universe did I slip into? [FIMG=444]https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/wKYAAOSwlAljcsoq/s-l1600.jpg[/FIMG]

Benjamin Grimm Jun 29 2023 12:31 PM Re: What, Me Worry?

I'm glad that Bizarro and Frankenstein's monster seem to be hitting it off.

Lefty Specialist Jun 29 2023 01:19 PM Re: What, Me Worry?

Well, if the Mets put out the 'open for bidness' sign soon enough, a paid-off Scherzer could be very enticing to a contender with a rotation hole. This is where Steve Cohenbucks come in handy.

Benjamin Grimm Jun 29 2023 01:27 PM Re: What, Me Worry?

I think so too. I don't know about "two great prospects" but if the Mets are paying all of Scherzer's salary (minus the minimum) they should be able to get someone of real value in return. Between the remainder of this year and all of next year, Scherzer is still owed around $65 million. The Mets wouldn't eat that money unless they got back a very appealing package. Otherwise, they'd just as well pay Scherzer the $65 million to pitch for them and hope for the best.

batmagadanleadoff Jun 29 2023 01:35 PM Re: What, Me Worry?

Let's be concrete. What should the Mets expect for paying Scherzer's $65M? He's still a 40+ year old pitcher in decline. How fast he declines is anybody's guess but the decline is inevitable and a 40+ year old pitcher is closer to his decline than a 30 year old pitcher. So let's be concrete. And consider not only what the Mets should expect but what some other team would be willing to give up to maybe, just maybe, be the last playoff seed. So who would that be? Someone like Jon Niese? The 1983 version of Tom Seaver? If Seaver, then the Mets might as well keep Scherzer, who isn't Juan Soto anymore. Well, I guess it'll be a prospect. Otherwise, what's the point of trading one pitcher well into career for another?

batmagadanleadoff Jun 29 2023 01:46 PM Re: What, Me Worry?

=batmagadanleadoff post_id=130282 time=1688067301 user_id=68] Let's be concrete. What should the Mets expect for paying Scherzer's $65M? He's still a 40+ year old pitcher in decline. How fast he declines is anybody's guess but the decline is inevitable and a 40+ year old pitcher is closer to his decline than a 30 year old pitcher. So let's be concrete. And consider not only what the Mets should expect but what some other team would be willing to give up to maybe, just maybe, be the last playoff seed. So who would that be? Someone like Jon Niese? The 1983 version of Tom Seaver? If Seaver, then the Mets might as well keep Scherzer, who isn't Juan Soto anymore. Well, I guess it'll be a prospect. Otherwise, what's the point of trading one pitcher well into career for another?

I think that the real problem is that it's looking like the Mets made bad investments in Scherzer and Verlander. They seem to be declining faster than expected. If those two guys don't pitch like top of the rotation hurlers, the Mets are in trouble. They've had zero starting pitching since Cohen took over other than a deGrom who was injured more often than he was healthy. And so Cohen tried to literally buy an entire staff --- Walker, Carrasco, Bassitt, Senga, Scherzer, Verlander -- and it hasn't gone according to plan.



There's no immediate relief from the minors, and the truth is that it's difficult to buy a staff, even with Cohen's money. Every team could use a good starter because there's at least five slots to fill in a rotation. So every team needs and wants a good pitcher and there aren't that many to go around. And you need to be lucky, too, lest you end up with a Trevor Bauer or this year's deGrom.

Benjamin Grimm Jun 29 2023 01:49 PM Re: What, Me Worry?

That's kind of my point. They might as well keep him, unless they can get back someone who's worth $65 million, or somewhere within a reasonable distance of $65 million. If the other team is paying his full salary, you take whatever you can get, even if it's a 40-year-old who never rose above Single A. But if the Mets are paying it, then they get someone very good (or potentially very good) or you don't make the deal. Given that, I don't think it's likely that he's going anywhere.

Chad ochoseis Jun 29 2023 01:53 PM Re: What, Me Worry? Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jun 29 2023 01:59 PM

I've been thinking about the wisdom of moving Scherzer and maybe even Verlander for a while. They both still have value, and one of the advantages of being Steve Cohen is that you can accept your mistakes, eat salary, and move on. The main concern there is that we have no high level MLB-ready pitching prospects in our own system for 2024, and the free agent pitching crop is thin once we get past Ohtani. Maybe we get The Great One, but he's basically going to write his own contract. I don't like the risk of signing any one player to 8/400, and I'm guessing that's what he'll cost at the low end. This article has his value at 6/202 if he were only a pitcher and 9/326 if he were only a hitter. The next best pitcher available for 2024 is most likely Aaron Nola. Clayton Kershaw signed a one year contract last year and will technically be available, but he's probably not going anywhere. Marcus Stroman has a player option that he should exercise, but that bridge is burned. If we could get a high quality young pitcher in exchange for Scherzer plus salary, that's great. But that's a big if.

A Boy Named Seo Jun 29 2023 01:59 PM Re: What, Me Worry?

=batmagadanleadoff post_id=130282 time=1688067301 user_id=68] Let's be concrete. What should the Mets expect for paying Scherzer's $65M? He's still a 40+ year old pitcher in decline. How fast he declines is anybody's guess but the decline is inevitable and a 40+ year old pitcher is closer to his decline than a 30 year old pitcher. So let's be concrete. And consider not only what the Mets should expect but what some other team would be willing to give up to maybe, just maybe, be the last playoff seed. So who would that be? Someone like Jon Niese? The 1983 version of Tom Seaver? If Seaver, then the Mets might as well keep Scherzer, who isn't Juan Soto anymore. Well, I guess it'll be a prospect. Otherwise, what's the point of trading one pitcher well into career for another?

What does it have to be just the team hunting for the last playoff seed? What if multiple teams were interested? It's a lot of money for Steve to eat, but if he did eat some or all of it, you would absolutely have multiple teams interested.



Concrete? For a free Max Scherzer, maybe you convince Baltimore to trade Colton Cowser and some other little O's. Or the Reds move Encarnacion-Strand and some of his friends. Last year, the Reds got CE-S and Spencer Steer for Tyler fucking Mahle. So yeah, teams would trade good players for two years of Max.

batmagadanleadoff Jun 29 2023 02:12 PM Re: What, Me Worry?

When he was traded, Tyler Mahle was a 26 year old pitcher coming off two straight seasons where he finished in the top 10 in numerous statistical pitching categories. And he was considered to have upside, being a 26 year old not yet reaching his actuarial baseball prime. So I wouldn't pooh-pooh him by calling him "Tyler Fucking Mahle" . This year, he started off about as dominant as any pitcher in all of baseball until he got injured. Scherzer is none of those things, despite being a sure-thing Hall-of-Famer.

smg58 Jun 29 2023 02:18 PM Re: What, Me Worry?

Scherzer might be able to convince a GM to give him half his current salary over two years were he to opt out. So I'd assume it won't happen. But if the Mets eat half his salary and a team gets a starter with a track record under control for another year (perhaps with a guarantee on Scherzer's part in that regard), the Mets could get a valuable prospect, plus $20M to spend on somebody else in the offseason. I wouldn't be against that.

A Boy Named Seo Jun 29 2023 02:34 PM Re: What, Me Worry?

When he was traded, Tyler Mahle was a 26 year old pitcher coming off two straight seasons where he finished in the top 10 in numerous statistical pitching categories. And he was considered to have upside, being a 26 year old not yet reaching his actuarial baseball prime. So I wouldn't pooh-pooh him by calling him "Tyler Fucking Mahle" . This year, he started off about as dominant as any pitcher in all of baseball until he got injured. Scherzer is none of those things, despite being a sure-thing Hall-of-Famer. Tyler F. Mahle is a fine pitcher. But he's been just above a league average pitcher in his career, about what Max has been this year. And the haul for him by the Reds was really good! The Twins gave up all that and got only 40 innings out of him. A team acquiring Max would get him for as long as the Twins controlled TFM and if the cost was paid for by the Mets, then the haul should be even better. Also, Max is and has been far better than Mahle even at his advanced age. PS - Not taking the piss here, but what two seasons and what top 10 categories did he land in?

batmagadanleadoff Jun 29 2023 02:41 PM Re: What, Me Worry?

A Boy Named Seo wrote: PS - Not taking the piss here, but what two seasons and what top 10 categories did he land in? 2021 only. My mistake. In 2020, he was in the top 10 but not in a good way -- he was among the leaders in hit batsmen.

A Boy Named Seo Jun 29 2023 02:52 PM Re: What, Me Worry?

A Boy Named Seo wrote: PS - Not taking the piss here, but what two seasons and what top 10 categories did he land in? 2021 only. My mistake. In 2020, he was in the top 10 but not in a good way -- he was among the leaders in hit batsmen. Gotcha, thanks.

ashie62 Jun 29 2023 03:46 PM Re: What, Me Worry?

There was a report that Scherzer might be willing to waive his no trade clause

Johnny Lunchbucket Jun 29 2023 03:55 PM Re: What, Me Worry?

I'd trade the shit out Max Scherzer. He'd walk around feeling that his gender had been changed when I'm done with him.