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If deGrom still deserves his own thread, well then this is it.

batmagadanleadoff Apr 23 2023 03:20 PM

6 IP, 11 K's, 1 ER allowed and the pitching win for Jake deGrom and the first place, that's right, first place Rangers, who have a 2.5 game lead on the second place team in their division, the biggest first-place lead in all of baseball other than that of the practically unbeatable Rays.

batmagadanleadoff Apr 25 2023 12:25 PM Re: If deGrom still deserves his own thread, well then this is it.

Where deGrom ranks right now among AL pitchers (2023 season stats): WHIP - 0.788 (3rd) H/9 IP - 6.075 (7th) BB/9 IP - 1.013 (2nd) K/9 IP - 14.513 (1st) K's - 43 - (1st) K/BB's - 14.333 (1st) FIP 1.41 (1st) ... and trending upwards with a bullet.

Johnny Lunchbucket Apr 25 2023 12:46 PM Re: If deGrom still deserves his own thread, well then this is it.

fuck him

Benjamin Grimm Apr 25 2023 12:51 PM Re: If deGrom still deserves his own thread, well then this is it.

Yeah. I've moved on. I'm as interested in him as I am in Rick Porcello or Michael Wacha.

Gwreck Apr 25 2023 02:11 PM Re: If deGrom still deserves his own thread, well then this is it.

Johnny Lunchbucket wrote: fuck him Fair. He didn't want to be a Met anymore, ok, fine. Get lost.

G-Fafif Apr 25 2023 02:17 PM Re: If deGrom still deserves his own thread, well then this is it.

Johnny Lunchbucket wrote: fuck him Fair. He didn't want to be a Met anymore, ok, fine. Get lost. One month in, I've brushed aside whatever sentimentality to which I thought I might be prone. I don't care if he wins the AL Cy Young. I don't care if he gets bombed every few starts. I wish him no physical discomfort, but I don't care if he misses time.

Edgy MD Apr 25 2023 02:32 PM Re: If deGrom still deserves his own thread, well then this is it.

After studying the Mets' boxscore in the late seventies, I'd move on to the Reds' box (to see if Seaver pitched, and if so, how well), then to the Twins' box (to look for Koosman), and finally to the Rangers' box (to check on Matlack). But I don't know if it's more that deGrom wasn't traded, but signed elsewhere, or that I'm not 11, but I don't feel and emotional stake in his success. At least not theseadays.

batmagadanleadoff Apr 25 2023 02:45 PM Re: If deGrom still deserves his own thread, well then this is it.

Edgy MD wrote: After studying the Mets' boxscore in the late seventies, I'd move on to the Reds' box (to see if Seaver pitched, and if so, how well), then to the Twins' box (to look for Koosman), and finally to the Rangers' box (to check on Matlack). But I don't know if it's more that deGrom wasn't traded, but signed elsewhere, or that I'm not 11, but I don't feel and emotional stake in his success. At least not theseadays. I'm with Lunchie and "fuck him". But I'm still interested. Because I've never seen anyone pitch as dominating as the healthy deGrom of the last two seasons. I don't think anyone else has either -- including dead fans. What I've come to despise are these ever proliferating player opt-out clauses. What utter bullshit. So if deGrom's arm fell off and his career was ruined, he'd still be in line to collect $35M a year for several more years. But if the market goes up -- and it goes up every year -- ha can essentially break his contract and demand a huge raise. It's all reward and no risk.

whippoorwill Apr 25 2023 03:05 PM Re: If deGrom still deserves his own thread, well then this is it.

He's on my team. I need him.

Edgy MD Apr 25 2023 03:06 PM Re: If deGrom still deserves his own thread, well then this is it.

Or, from the other side of the agreement, all risk and no reward. It helps explain why the Mets have topped their rotation with two pitchers who are high performing but near the end of their viability, and therefore willing to take shorter-term deals but with the years guaranteed for both sides.

Gwreck Apr 25 2023 03:08 PM Re: If deGrom still deserves his own thread, well then this is it.

=batmagadanleadoff post_id=123456 time=1682455545 user_id=68]he can essentially break his contract and demand a huge raise. It's all reward and no risk.

That's not “essentially break[ing] his contract.”



That IS the contract. The one that both sides negotiated and agreed to.

batmagadanleadoff Apr 25 2023 03:13 PM Re: If deGrom still deserves his own thread, well then this is it.

he can essentially break his contract and demand a huge raise. It's all reward and no risk. That's not “essentially break[ing] his contract.” That IS the contract. The one that both sides negotiated and agreed to. Yeah, I know. It's just a way of phrasing things. But the contract essentially allows deGrom to break it. Essentially. In effect. More or less. Virtually. Would it've made you happier if I wrote "get out of" instead of "break"? It doesn't change the real point or essence.

kcmets Apr 25 2023 03:20 PM Re: If deGrom still deserves his own thread, well then this is it.

Edgy MD wrote: he Mets have topped their rotation with two pitchers who are high performing but near the end of their viability... Perhaps near(er) than anticipated.

Edgy MD Apr 25 2023 03:25 PM Re: If deGrom still deserves his own thread, well then this is it.

Perhaps, but if they are, at least the contracts sunset in a year or two, and you try again with somebody else. But yeah, it's a different story to give a guy a contract that's for two or three years if he's good, six or seven if he isn't.

Gwreck Apr 25 2023 05:11 PM Re: If deGrom still deserves his own thread, well then this is it.

Edgy MD wrote: But yeah, it's a different story to give a guy a contract that's for two or three years if he's good, six or seven if he isn't. I'm not sure I would call it “giving” a guy a contract versus negotiating one. I say good for the player for utilizing his leverage and negotiating for that flexibility.

batmagadanleadoff Apr 25 2023 05:17 PM Re: If deGrom still deserves his own thread, well then this is it.

Edgy MD wrote: But yeah, it's a different story to give a guy a contract that's for two or three years if he's good, six or seven if he isn't. I'm not sure I would call it “giving” a guy a contract versus negotiating one. I say good for the player for utilizing his leverage and negotiating for that flexibility. That a player has the leverage to negotiate an opt-out doesn't necessarily make it fair or a good thing for baseball. And I'm like the last guy to likely side with the owners over the players. I'd explore banning them in the next CBA. Wilpon negotiated that one because he knew he wouldnt be here in 2023 and couldnt give a flying fuck about the future state of the Mets. That's why he signed Cano, dealt Kelenic for Diaz and didnt delay Alonso's debut for the requisite couple of weeks so as to push back his walk year by a whole calendar year, selfish scumbag that he is. If the Mets were operating under normal conditions and not in a state of financial crisis, none of those things would've happened.

Edgy MD Apr 25 2023 05:30 PM Re: If deGrom still deserves his own thread, well then this is it.

Edgy MD wrote: But yeah, it's a different story to give a guy a contract that's for two or three years if he's good, six or seven if he isn't. I'm not sure I would call it “giving” a guy a contract versus negotiating one. I say good for the player for utilizing his leverage and negotiating for that flexibility. It's great for the player, and it's well within his rights, but I root for the Mets to make moves that help them most, and advocate for acquisition principles that help them the most. Believe me, I want players to have all the leverage they deserve.

Johnny Lunchbucket Apr 28 2023 03:13 PM Re: If deGrom still deserves his own thread, well then this is it.

Fuck Him goes tonight against the Yankees

batmagadanleadoff Apr 28 2023 07:10 PM Re: If deGrom still deserves his own thread, well then this is it.

deGrom pulled after three and two thirds with the Rangers up five zip. Another injury or something?

G-Fafif Apr 28 2023 07:23 PM Re: If deGrom still deserves his own thread, well then this is it.

[tweet]https://twitter.com/MLBONFOX/status/1652119655069171715[/tweet]

ashie62 Apr 28 2023 07:31 PM Re: If deGrom still deserves his own thread, well then this is it.

I just saw this Uncle Steve knew what he was doing

ashie62 Apr 28 2023 07:33 PM Re: If deGrom still deserves his own thread, well then this is it.

Hammy?

whippoorwill Apr 28 2023 08:09 PM Re: If deGrom still deserves his own thread, well then this is it.

🤦‍♀️

Edgy MD Apr 28 2023 09:23 PM Re: If deGrom still deserves his own thread, well then this is it.

Looks heartbroken.

ashie62 Apr 29 2023 01:46 AM Re: If deGrom still deserves his own thread, well then this is it.

Forearm soreness Some speculation already about a second Tommy John

Frayed Knot Apr 29 2023 05:56 AM Re: If deGrom still deserves his own thread, well then this is it.

So that's six starts this year but a total of only 30.1 innings and he needed to be pulled early in two of them due to a medical issue. Yeah, I'd be nervous over this going forward if I were TEX mgmt.

A Boy Named Seo Apr 29 2023 08:05 AM Re: If deGrom still deserves his own thread, well then this is it.

I'm sure Texas had nervousness baked into the recipe. So far, it's been exactly what everybody would've expected. DeGrom is lights out when he is on a mound but he's not there as often as anybody would like.

metirish Apr 29 2023 04:31 PM Re: If deGrom still deserves his own thread, well then this is it.

To the IL with right elbow inflammation (15 Day )

kcmets Apr 29 2023 07:33 PM Re: If deGrom still deserves his own thread, well then this is it.

Elbow inflammation! Is that like unexplained arm discomfort.

nymr83 Apr 30 2023 06:34 PM Re: If deGrom still deserves his own thread, well then this is it.

Elbow inflammation! Is that like unexplained arm discomfort. It's more like "this guy is out for the year but we want to ease the fans into that diagnosis"

smg58 May 01 2023 07:31 AM Re: If deGrom still deserves his own thread, well then this is it.

A Boy Named Seo wrote: I'm sure Texas had nervousness baked into the recipe. So far, it's been exactly what everybody would've expected. DeGrom is lights out when he is on a mound but he's not there as often as anybody would like. Absolutely this. Our willingness (both the Mets and the fans) to let him go had nothing to do with how we thought he'd pitch when healthy.

kcmets May 01 2023 10:10 AM Re: If deGrom still deserves his own thread, well then this is it.

Does Jacob have a no-clause or a 'list' of teams he can't be traded to? I say we make a move for him in July and he can come be hurt again for us!

batmagadanleadoff May 02 2023 10:43 AM Re: If deGrom still deserves his own thread, well then this is it.

Good read. Even better article title. The Ferrari That Is Jacob deGrom Is Once Again in the Shop https://blogs.fangraphs.com/the-ferrari-that-is-jacob-degrom-is-once-again-in-the-shop/ Some key takeaways: ... deGrom is pretty good when healthy. Extremely so. He's a starter that pitches like those untouchable relievers that can air it out on every pitch, knowing they're not gonna pitch to more than a handful of batters. And deGrom has the freaky dominating stats to prove it. ... pitchers who are diagnosed with the latest injury that's sidelined deGrom typically miss close to two months of action. There's a decent chance that deGrom won't pitch at all in the month of May. ... his Hall of Fame case is dwindling, not improving.

Edgy MD May 02 2023 11:16 AM Re: If deGrom still deserves his own thread, well then this is it.

It's only so long before he doesn't return from the shop right, experience would suggest. Maybe his best remaining path to the Hall of Fame is to become a closer.

batmagadanleadoff May 02 2023 11:17 AM Re: If deGrom still deserves his own thread, well then this is it.

Edgy MD wrote: Maybe his best remaining path to the Hall of Fame is to become a closer. Holy moley! You may be on to something!

Benjamin Grimm May 02 2023 11:20 AM Re: If deGrom still deserves his own thread, well then this is it.

Edgy MD wrote: It's only so long before he doesn't return from the shop right, experience would suggest. Perhaps he should try returning from the ShopRite.

MFS62 May 02 2023 11:22 AM Re: If deGrom still deserves his own thread, well then this is it.

There are two players who seem to show up on the IL every year. I wonder who will miss more games this year, DeGrom or Giancarlo Stanton. Later

batmagadanleadoff May 02 2023 11:27 AM Re: If deGrom still deserves his own thread, well then this is it. Edited 1 time(s), most recently on May 02 2023 11:33 AM

=batmagadanleadoff post_id=124098 time=1683045802 user_id=68] ... his Hall of Fame case is dwindling, not improving.

deGrom is now HOF eligible, this being his 10th MLB season. Has he done enough already? If this latest injury turns out to end deGrom's career, would he get your vote? He wouldn't be the first two time Cy Young award winner to miss the HOF. The Mets had two of them. And a third who was robbed of what should've been his first Cy Young award (and a league MVP award, too).

batmagadanleadoff May 02 2023 11:34 AM Re: If deGrom still deserves his own thread, well then this is it.

Benjamin Grimm wrote: The only Met I can think of who won a Rookie-of-the-Year award and two Cy Youngs is Tom Seaver, and he certainly didn't miss the Hall of Fame. Your second guy is clearly Dwight Gooden. But I have no idea who the first one is. I edited my post. I thought Saberhagen won the ROY. He didn't.

Edgy MD May 02 2023 11:38 AM Re: If deGrom still deserves his own thread, well then this is it.

I guess we mean Saberhagen and Santana ... and Gooden?

batmagadanleadoff May 02 2023 11:39 AM Re: If deGrom still deserves his own thread, well then this is it.

Edgy MD wrote: I guess we mean Saberhagen and Santana ... and Gooden? Winner. Winner. Chicken dinner.

A Boy Named Seo May 02 2023 11:52 AM Re: If deGrom still deserves his own thread, well then this is it. Edited 1 time(s), most recently on May 02 2023 12:36 PM

deGrom as a closer seems like a great idea, but I wonder if more frequent outings hurt him less/more/the same than every 4th or 5th day? I bet the Rangers don't wanna pay $37M for a closer either. This passage in the article jumped at me. Seven to 10 days might be enough to get a sense of where this situation is headed, but it's very possible deGrom will be out longer. Data from the Baseball Prospectus Four-Year Injury Map for 2020–22 shows that the average time missed by a pitcher with elbow inflammation is 60 days; more granular data from the site's Recovery Dashboard for 2016–22 shows an average of 54 days missed and a median of 36 days. In other words, we may not see him pitch in May. Feel better, Jake. See ya in summer.

nymr83 May 02 2023 12:02 PM Re: If deGrom still deserves his own thread, well then this is it.

I would concur that the size of his contract precludes him being the closer this year - those 30 innings he pitched still represent half a season for many relievers. The value is in trying to keep him healthy.

Edgy MD May 02 2023 12:10 PM Re: If deGrom still deserves his own thread, well then this is it.

Well, this will be the lowest salary of his contract.

ashie62 May 09 2023 11:24 AM Re: If deGrom still deserves his own thread, well then this is it.

Jake is eligible to come off the IL on Sunday. There is reporting that has hit a "snag" and will not. Like dejuva all over again

metirish May 11 2023 12:01 PM Re: If deGrom still deserves his own thread, well then this is it.

Another two to three weeks with elbow inflammation

kcmets May 11 2023 12:06 PM Re: If deGrom still deserves his own thread, well then this is it.

=kcmets post_id=123852 time=1682818405 user_id=53] Elbow inflammation! Is that like unexplained arm discomfort.

Rinse and repeat...

ashie62 May 11 2023 01:10 PM Re: If deGrom still deserves his own thread, well then this is it.

Yes, very familiar. I was reading Texas Rangers fan site. Regarding Jake it sounded like CPF west

batmagadanleadoff May 23 2023 11:56 PM Re: If deGrom still deserves his own thread, well then this is it.

I'm sure youse heard this one before: Sidelined Jacob deGrom threw a bullpen session yesterday and sez he feels great.

metirish May 24 2023 04:02 AM Re: If deGrom still deserves his own thread, well then this is it.

Oh he's turned a corner has he ?

whippoorwill May 24 2023 05:18 AM Re: If deGrom still deserves his own thread, well then this is it.

My fantasy update says still several weeks 🙄

batmagadanleadoff May 29 2023 12:30 PM Re: If deGrom still deserves his own thread, well then this is it.

Rangers manager Bruce Bochy sez Jacob deGrom could return in two or three weeks. Could. If so, when deGrom returns, he will have missed about two thirds of this season almost halfway into it.

ashie62 May 30 2023 07:57 AM Re: If deGrom still deserves his own thread, well then this is it.

Then it will become "we hope to have him for the postseason"

metirish Jun 05 2023 06:11 PM Re: If deGrom still deserves his own thread, well then this is it.

[TWEET]https://twitter.com/MLBONFOX/status/1665846969690996736[/TWEET] No surprise

metirish Jun 05 2023 06:12 PM Re: If deGrom still deserves his own thread, well then this is it.

https://www.dallasnews.com/sports/rangers/2023/06/05/rangers-place-jacob-degrom-on-60-day-il-make-room-for-spencer-howard/ Story

nymr83 Jun 05 2023 06:13 PM Re: If deGrom still deserves his own thread, well then this is it.

The Mets dodged a bullet here. Good for them trusting their medicals and not handing an oft-injured pitcher a huge contract that would have amounted to a lifetime achievement award.

Fman99 Jun 05 2023 06:33 PM Re: If deGrom still deserves his own thread, well then this is it.

His team is still 38-20 even without him. So somehow we still got more fucked on this? I'm butthurt about it

Frayed Knot Jun 05 2023 07:08 PM Re: If deGrom still deserves his own thread, well then this is it.

This move from the 15- to the 60-day IL is likely more one of accounting than a real change in status or a set-back. It precludes a return any earlier than late June but that was pretty much in the cards anyway.

ashie62 Jun 06 2023 03:54 AM Re: If deGrom still deserves his own thread, well then this is it.

He has thrown some bullpens and a fresh MRI is scheduled Jake is a month away so yes put him him on the 60 il Rangers fans are sick about this and I do understand The Rangers hit, all of them

metsmarathon Jun 06 2023 09:27 AM Re: If deGrom still deserves his own thread, well then this is it.

this sucks for jake. i really hope that he can get figured out once and for all. he's simply too delightful a talent to not be on the field. i wonder if converting to a closer would even be a good idea for him. obviously he's not being paid to be a reliever, but if it might help keep him on the field more...

TransMonk Jun 06 2023 02:48 PM Re: If deGrom still deserves his own thread, well then this is it.

Rumblings on Twitter are that he's headed for Tommy John surgery. [TWEET]https://twitter.com/MLBONFOX/status/1666185265071939584[/TWEET]

Lefty Specialist Jun 06 2023 02:53 PM Re: If deGrom still deserves his own thread, well then this is it.

As the kids say, lol.

Benjamin Grimm Jun 06 2023 02:56 PM Re: If deGrom still deserves his own thread, well then this is it.

Wow.

batmagadanleadoff Jun 06 2023 03:01 PM Re: If deGrom still deserves his own thread, well then this is it.

There's no way deGrom's Ranger contract was insurable, I don't think. The Rangers are gonna pretty much eat deGrom's contract.

metirish Jun 06 2023 03:09 PM Re: If deGrom still deserves his own thread, well then this is it.

Damn

ashie62 Jun 06 2023 03:11 PM Re: If deGrom still deserves his own thread, well then this is it.

Wow. Everything the Texas Rangers touch turns to dust

cal sharpie Jun 06 2023 03:15 PM Re: If deGrom still deserves his own thread, well then this is it.

So, probably not pitching til 2025.

metirish Jun 06 2023 03:18 PM Re: If deGrom still deserves his own thread, well then this is it.

[TWEET]https://twitter.com/Evan_P_Grant/status/1666187482541723649[/TWEET]

Lefty Specialist Jun 06 2023 03:32 PM Re: If deGrom still deserves his own thread, well then this is it.

For the past three years he's had different kinds of weird soreness with murky explanations. He was probably pitching on the edge the whole time and not being truthful about it. You can't throw 100 pitches a start as hard as he threw them for as long as he threw them without something happening. Eppler and Cohen made the right call here.

whippoorwill Jun 06 2023 03:40 PM Re: If deGrom still deserves his own thread, well then this is it.

Geez. I rel eased him from my fantasy team before they even announced this.

Marshmallowmilkshake Jun 06 2023 03:44 PM Re: If deGrom still deserves his own thread, well then this is it.

Lefty Specialist wrote: As the kids say, lol. Seriously?

kcmets Jun 06 2023 04:08 PM Re: If deGrom still deserves his own thread, well then this is it.

Phwam, Texas-style. They like things big down there!

vtmet7 Jun 06 2023 04:09 PM Re: If deGrom still deserves his own thread, well then this is it.

I'm surprised that the title of the thread hasn't changed to : "Memories of deGrom's ulnar collateral ligament"

Benjamin Grimm Jun 06 2023 04:25 PM Re: If deGrom still deserves his own thread, well then this is it.

Predicted tabloid headline: deJA VU!

ashie62 Jun 06 2023 04:30 PM Re: If deGrom still deserves his own thread, well then this is it.

The Texas Rangers did not, could not insure the contract? Source is the local abc sports guy

batmagadanleadoff Jun 06 2023 04:35 PM Re: If deGrom still deserves his own thread, well then this is it.

=ashie62 post_id=127767 time=1686090614 user_id=90] The Texas Rangers did not, could not insure the contract? Source is the local abc sports guy

We won't know for sure until this point is accurately reported on but generally, pitchers in their late 30s aren't insurable, especially ones with anything like deGrom's injury history.

Frayed Knot Jun 06 2023 04:42 PM Re: If deGrom still deserves his own thread, well then this is it. Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jun 06 2023 05:41 PM

Still not as bad a contract as the extension Strasburg signed with the Nats in the winter of '19/'20* His deal was less on a per/year basis but also longer and, though it's not yet official, his career is likely over. *$245 mil, he'spitched 31 innings and will probably throw no more

batmagadanleadoff Jun 06 2023 04:49 PM Re: If deGrom still deserves his own thread, well then this is it.

The Rangers may indeed have been able to insure deGrom but I cant read the article because of the paywall. https://www.bostonglobe.com/2022/12/03/sports/injury-protection-included-jacob-degroms-big-money-deal-with-texas/

batmagadanleadoff Jun 06 2023 04:54 PM Re: If deGrom still deserves his own thread, well then this is it.

The Rangers may indeed have been able to insure deGrom but I cant read the article because of the paywall. https://www.bostonglobe.com/2022/12/03/sports/injury-protection-included-jacob-degroms-big-money-deal-with-texas/ This is weird. I can read the article through this forum but not through my smartphone browser. Anyway, that headline is misleading. The article doesn't mention insurance. Instead it appears that deGrom's contract might get reduced if he sustains certain injuries and/or is sidelined for a certain period of time.

MFS62 Jun 06 2023 05:14 PM Re: If deGrom still deserves his own thread, well then this is it.

The Rangers may indeed have been able to insure deGrom but I cant read the article because of the paywall. https://www.bostonglobe.com/2022/12/03/sports/injury-protection-included-jacob-degroms-big-money-deal-with-texas/ This is weird. I can read the article through this forum but not through my smartphone browser. Anyway, that headline is misleading. The article doesn't mention insurance. Instead it appears that deGrom's contract might get reduced if he sustains certain injuries and/or is sidelined for a certain period of time. According to WABC-TV, his contract is not insured. Later

batmagadanleadoff Jun 06 2023 06:11 PM Re: If deGrom still deserves his own thread, well then this is it.

DeGrom signed a 5-year, $185 million deal with the Rangers in free agency. Texas took a chance on him despite knowing his history because they were desperate for pitching help. And they took an even bigger risk than many people realized. In response to the news of deGrom's surgery, we learned that the Rangers did not purchase insurance on the pitcher's contract. According to an article published by The Athletic's Ken Rosenthal last month, the Rangers chose not to pay for insurance on deGrom's deal because the cost would have been “prohibitively expensive.” What does that mean? Rather than be able recoup some expenses had they insured the contract, the Rangers will just have to eat all the money they owe deGrom for 2023 and 2024 regardless of how much time he misses due to injury. DeGrom is owed $30 million this year and $40 million next year. The one benefit the Rangers have as a result of deGrom's injury is that due to contract stipulations, they now will have an option for the pitcher in 2028. The 2028 team option could be worth either $37 million, $30 million or $20 million depending on a few factors related to the pitcher's performance. Had deGrom not suffered a major injury/missed significant time during his contract, the team would not have had a 2028 option for the pitcher. https://larrybrownsports.com/baseball/detail-jacob-degrom-contract-rangers-insurance/616033

Fman99 Jun 06 2023 07:15 PM Re: If deGrom still deserves his own thread, well then this is it.

I didn't think he left on the greatest terms but I feel for the guy. He wasn't doing me no harm in Arlington

The Hot Corner Jun 06 2023 07:27 PM Re: If deGrom still deserves his own thread, well then this is it.

I am not the least bit surprised that the Rangers find themselves paying an exorbitant amount of money for a few innings of stellar pitching from DeGrom. I'm just glad it isn't the Mets that are on the hook for his contract. Jake is a phenomenal talent. During his increasingly rare periods of health, he is a generational talent. He just isn't someone a team can or should count on. I am sorry to see him suffer a serious injury and wish him an full recovery.

Marshmallowmilkshake Jun 07 2023 06:30 AM Re: If deGrom still deserves his own thread, well then this is it.

The Hot Corner wrote: I am sorry to see him suffer a serious injury and wish him an full recovery. I agree. Sad to see this happen. Baseball as a whole is better with a healthy Jacob deGrom.

Benjamin Grimm Jun 07 2023 08:09 AM Re: If deGrom still deserves his own thread, well then this is it.

Benjamin Grimm wrote: Predicted tabloid headline: deJA VU! Well, I was in the right ballpark anyway: http://ultimatemets.com/covers/2023/20230607_NSD_02.jpg>

kcmets Jun 07 2023 08:37 AM Re: If deGrom still deserves his own thread, well then this is it.

I'm a sentimental Mets fan 78.376% of the time and I have to admit seeing the footage of him crying at his press conference first thing this morning choked me up a little bit.

Benjamin Grimm Jun 07 2023 08:53 AM Re: If deGrom still deserves his own thread, well then this is it.

San Diego Union Tribune, November 17, 2020 wrote: Of the 42 major league pitchers who have had two Tommy John surgeries, the majority did not pitch in the majors again after their second or fared poorly over a short period. But many of those pitchers were well into their 30s at the time of the second surgery. Full article: History of second Tommy John surgeries raises questions about Mike Clevinger's future “On average, the typical TJ revision isn't as successful as the typical primary TJ,” Dr. Andrew Cosgarea, an orthopedic surgeon and professor at the Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine, said Tuesday. “… The first time you drill a hole in the bone it is fresh and clean, but if it happens again you already have a hole there and that hole is filled with scar tissue. … Scar tissue isn't as healthy as original tissue. It doesn't have the same blood supply; (it is) not as durable.”

metirish Jun 07 2023 11:03 AM Re: If deGrom still deserves his own thread, well then this is it.

Wow yeah, doesn't sound good

metsmarathon Jun 07 2023 11:14 AM Re: If deGrom still deserves his own thread, well then this is it.

i feel so bad for jake. and for the rangers, and for baseball fans in general that deserve to have such an incredible pitcher as he out there throwing gas and making hitters look foolish. and also for the hall of fame, which is now not very likely to see his bust enshrined at all.

Edgy MD Jun 07 2023 11:36 AM Re: If deGrom still deserves his own thread, well then this is it.

Hey, now. Cooperstown enshrines plaques. Canton enshrines busts. deGrom still has a shot at Canton. He can become a punter or something.

G-Fafif Jun 07 2023 12:10 PM Re: If deGrom still deserves his own thread, well then this is it.

I'm sure the Rangers' doctors and trainers will take good care of him, but it feels wrong that Jake isn't on our IL.

metsmarathon Jun 07 2023 12:39 PM Re: If deGrom still deserves his own thread, well then this is it.

it feels a little like he never got off it.

ashie62 Jun 07 2023 12:47 PM Re: If deGrom still deserves his own thread, well then this is it.

Jakes lifetime numbers are similar to Strasburg Can deGrom say no to surgery and get paid something? He won't say no but geez doesn't he know he's about finished?

Frayed Knot Jun 07 2023 01:25 PM Re: If deGrom still deserves his own thread, well then this is it.

If he returns from this TJS in the normal time frame (say in time for OD 2025) he'll still have three years remaining on his contract. Why would he refuse surgery and effectively end his career now?

kcmets Jun 07 2023 02:25 PM Re: If deGrom still deserves his own thread, well then this is it.

=ashie62 post_id=127896 time=1686163625 user_id=90] Can deGrom say no to surgery and get paid something? He won't say no but geez doesn't he know he's about finished?

Everyone who would pass up possibly a quarter-billion dollars just

to not get a quick surgery raise their hands.

ashie62 Jun 07 2023 02:52 PM Re: If deGrom still deserves his own thread, well then this is it.

Not saying he would for a minute. Just food for thought If the arm doesn't work when he's in his 40's he knows why What would I do? Cue the anesthesia

Edgy MD Jun 07 2023 03:23 PM Re: If deGrom still deserves his own thread, well then this is it.

I'm not sure why a second Tommy John surgery should be considered a risk for loss of arm function later in life. Is Jeremy Hefner or somebody walking around with an unresponsive limb?

MFS62 Jun 07 2023 03:36 PM Re: If deGrom still deserves his own thread, well then this is it.

Edgy MD wrote: I'm not sure why a second Tommy John surgery should be considered a risk for loss of arm function later in life. Is Jeremy Hefner or somebody walking around with an unresponsive limb? I think I read that they would be attaching the ligament to a part of the shoulder that may not be as strong due the earlier surgery. They would be drilling the new hole very close to the old hole and the tissue may not have matured. From that, I infer that this may make the new ligament not as stable or secure and be prone to injury with less stress later in life. Can any of the doctors here confirm that? Later

Frayed Knot Jun 07 2023 04:05 PM Re: If deGrom still deserves his own thread, well then this is it.

Well I can confirm that they won't be grafting a new elbow ligament to his shoulder.

Lefty Specialist Jun 07 2023 04:07 PM Re: If deGrom still deserves his own thread, well then this is it.

I'm not a doctor, but I DID stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night. Second TJ recoveries tend to not go as well as the first ones. There's scar tissue from the first surgery, for one thing. And yes, you're repairing the same area over again. Jake better not try to throw 100 ever again.

Edgy MD Jun 07 2023 04:09 PM Re: If deGrom still deserves his own thread, well then this is it.

Edgy MD wrote: I'm not sure why a second Tommy John surgery should be considered a risk for loss of arm function later in life. Is Jeremy Hefner or somebody walking around with an unresponsive limb? I think I read that they would be attaching the ligament to a part of the shoulder that may not be as strong due the earlier surgery. They would be drilling the new hole very close to the old hole and the tissue may not have matured. From that, I infer that this may make the new ligament not as stable or secure and be prone to injury with less stress later in life. Can any of the doctors here confirm that? Later UCL surgery stays in the vicinity of the elbow, and not the shoulder. What's attached isn't ligament tissue, but tendon tissue harvested from other parts of the body — usually the hip or the knee — to replace the damaged ligament. I have no doubt the surgery can fail. It's happened often enough, and the second surgery is more prone to failure. What I'm asking is why ashie would think the result of that failure would be, beyond the end of a pitching career, actual loss of arm function. Is there any evidence or history to suggest this?

MFS62 Jun 07 2023 04:42 PM Re: If deGrom still deserves his own thread, well then this is it.

I heard a hole was drilled, I didn't hear where. Thanks. Nothing I read has anything to do with later years. Later

ashie62 Jun 07 2023 05:21 PM Re: If deGrom still deserves his own thread, well then this is it.

Edgy MD wrote: Edgy MD wrote: I'm not sure why a second Tommy John surgery should be considered a risk for loss of arm function later in life. Is Jeremy Hefner or somebody walking around with an unresponsive limb? I think I read that they would be attaching the ligament to a part of the shoulder that may not be as strong due the earlier surgery. They would be drilling the new hole very close to the old hole and the tissue may not have matured. From that, I infer that this may make the new ligament not as stable or secure and be prone to injury with less stress later in life. Can any of the doctors here confirm that? Later UCL surgery stays in the vicinity of the elbow, and not the shoulder. What's attached isn't ligament tissue, but tendon tissue harvested from other parts of the body — usually the hip or the knee — to replace the damaged ligament. I have no doubt the surgery can fail. It's happened often enough, and the second surgery is more prone to failure. What I'm asking is why ashie would think the result of that failure would be, beyond the end of a pitching career, actual loss of arm function. Is there any evidence or history to suggest this? I was thinking of Sandy Koufax and his retirement speech talking about this use of his own arm Two surgeries and years of hard use sounds concerning to me, not aware of cade studies that speak to this

Frayed Knot Jun 07 2023 06:03 PM Re: If deGrom still deserves his own thread, well then this is it.

Koufax retired young (30) not due to the effects of surgery but due to the lack of available surgical options. And, yes, he did talk about retiring so as to not risk damaging his already damaged left wing any further. By that point he had been slathering his arm with hot stuff for years so it's s possible that the doctor on the top of his rolodex (ask your parents, kids) after his career ended was his dermatologist.

ashie62 Jun 08 2023 04:49 AM Re: If deGrom still deserves his own thread, well then this is it.

I was reading a what if that argued Koufax would have extended his career about five years after TJ surgery Clevinger and Taillon are double TJ's and both are active as starters currently