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McDeal with McNeil

Edgy MD Jun 27 2023 10:51 AM

At times, Jeff McNeil's among the top handful of contact hitters in team history, but none of those times have come around in the last five weeks or so. For periods this season, he's gotten his hits. For periods, he's gotten his walks. Those periods have not happened of late, and for no period at all this season has he been rattling the ball past the outfielders for extra-base hits on anything like a consistent basis. To his credit, despite him clearly being an intense, emotional dude, his fielding and baserunning haven't been affected for the most part. But you can get fielding from other sources, and the baserunning isn't really happening all that often, and it was never gonna win you too many games as it is. So what do you do? A multiple-day Voglebreak while he clears his head? Reduce his playing time moderately as he fails until he stops failing? A trip to Syracuse? Only wear his favorite uniform combination? What's the story with this two-time All-Star? [FIMG=300]https://static01.nyt.com/images/2020/08/06/sports/06mlb-swearing-2/merlin_174948018_c3a63506-0466-4047-b191-8b5459a3264e-articleLarge.jpg?quality=75&auto=webp&disable=upscale[/FIMG]

kcmets Jun 27 2023 11:00 AM Re: McDeal with McNeil

Edgy MD wrote: So what do you do? A multiple-day Voglebreak while he clears his head? Reduce his playing time moderately as he fails until he stops failing? A trip to Syracuse? Only wear his favorite uniform combination? What's the story with this two-time All-Star? He'll be fine, except for the Deliverance haircut.

Benjamin Grimm Jun 27 2023 11:13 AM Re: McDeal with McNeil

He had a pretty bad July in 2022 but rebounded big time in August, so who knows?

ashie62 Jun 27 2023 11:56 AM Re: McDeal with McNeil

I have more confidence in him than most of the others A Mcbreak could help. One weekend to unwind

ashie62 Jun 27 2023 11:57 AM Re: McDeal with McNeil

If the Mets could win four or five in a row I could see squirrel and the others rising out of their collective funk en masse

MFS62 Jun 27 2023 12:16 PM Re: McDeal with McNeil

Is it going to take a year for him to climb out of his funk, like 2021 to 2022? I hope it will be closer to what Ben said - a good month will find him back on track. Later

Johnny Lunchbucket Jun 27 2023 03:24 PM Re: McDeal with McNeil

I'm probably wrong but fire the hitting coach seems like a good idea to me. (I don't even know who that is).

Edgy MD Jun 27 2023 03:32 PM Re: McDeal with McNeil

Jeremy Barnes is your Mets hitting coach, in his first season after being elevated from the assistant job after the Mets moved Eric Chavez to the bench coach role. I guess an alternative is to turn him back over to Chavez, under whom he won a batting average title last year. For all I now, though, Chavez has remained fully engaged in the hitting instruction regime.

A Boy Named Seo Jun 27 2023 04:54 PM Re: McDeal with McNeil

My expert analysis is Jeff loves golf way too damn much. He even wears golf polos all the time. Chill on that shit, bruv. The polos and the golf playing. I also think Jeff would be the most resistant to normal constructive criticism on baseball or golf shirts or anything due to his uncompromising red-assery.

MFS62 Jun 27 2023 05:53 PM Re: McDeal with McNeil

Bat him second and just leave him there. Let him concentrate on hitting the ball to all fields. He doesn't have the power to bat middle/down in the order. (well maybe on this team he does. But...) I think moving him up and down in the order makes him question his role. Is it average or power? Let him concentrate on one role until he gets his swing straightened out. Later

Johnny Lunchbucket Jun 28 2023 06:29 AM Re: McDeal with McNeil

A Boy Named Seo wrote: My expert analysis is Jeff loves golf way too damn much. He even wears golf polos all the time. Chill on that shit, bruv. The polos and the golf playing. I also think Jeff would be the most resistant to normal constructive criticism on baseball or golf shirts or anything due to his uncompromising red-assery. All true 👍

kcmets Jun 28 2023 08:38 AM Re: McDeal with McNeil

Did Lindor ever buy McNutty the car he promised him? Maybe he's all red-assed that Francisco welched on his gift. Maybe there's another dust up on the horizon for our all-star middle infield...

ashie62 Jul 18 2023 09:17 AM Re: McDeal with McNeil

Joel Sherman wrote on Sunday that the Mets are considering trading Jeff McNeil Reasoning. that the rift with Lindor is not fixable Lindor was asked about the car and basically blew off the question Opined that Jeff is have trouble with the no shift rule. Harder to find his spots I guess

G-Fafif Jul 18 2023 10:26 AM Re: McDeal with McNeil

Joel Sherman wrote on Sunday that the Mets are considering trading Jeff McNeil Reasoning. that the rift with Lindor is not fixable Lindor was asked about the car and basically blew off the question Opined that Jeff is have trouble with the no shift rule. Harder to find his spots I guess Didn't see any of this in Sherman's column. https://nypost.com/2023/07/16/mets-may-make-max-scherzer-justin-verlander-trade-options/

metirish Jul 18 2023 10:34 AM Re: McDeal with McNeil

The whole car thing is is annoying and dragged out when things are going bad , was it said in jest? Does Jeff expect a car ? Whole thing is dumb

MFS62 Jul 18 2023 10:38 AM Re: McDeal with McNeil Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jul 18 2023 11:06 AM

Didn't see any of this in Sherman's column. This is the Post article that talks about McNeil's down numbers wrt the new shift rules: https://nypost.com/2023/07/17/jeff-mcneils-mysterious-slump-might-stem-from-mlb-shift-change/ Later

Johnny Lunchbucket Jul 18 2023 10:57 AM Re: McDeal with McNeil

Yeah but there's nothing there about the Lindor sitch.

metsmarathon Jul 18 2023 11:14 AM Re: McDeal with McNeil

mcneil needs to watch some luis arraez and just put the fucking ball in play instead of trying to aim for smaller holes that aren't there.

smg58 Jul 18 2023 11:15 AM Re: McDeal with McNeil

I thought McNeil was playing hurt two years ago, and I think he's playing hurt now. He's getting nothing on his swings, and I can't help thinking that something connected to his swing is bothering him. Given the similarity in the stats, I think whatever the problem was two years ago is what it is now. Personally I think a month off would do him some good, and bring up Mauricio in the meantime. But whatever the issue is, the Mets have worked under the assumption that it would go away on its own and it hasn't.

Edgy MD Jul 18 2023 11:16 AM Re: McDeal with McNeil

ashie must have his own source.

G-Fafif Jul 18 2023 11:18 AM Re: McDeal with McNeil

Nor is it written by Sherman or suggest the Mets are shopping McNeil.

Benjamin Grimm Jul 18 2023 11:35 AM Re: McDeal with McNeil

If they traded him right now, they'd be selling low. He does have a friendly contract, but only if he's playing like he did in 2022.

Centerfield Jul 18 2023 11:44 AM Re: McDeal with McNeil

I don't remember another playing being this hit or miss. He's never had an OPS in the .700s. He's either in the 800/900s, or 600s. Nuts.

Benjamin Grimm Jul 18 2023 12:00 PM Re: McDeal with McNeil

Maybe, in 2021, he lost the ability to hit in odd-numbered years. This is known, clinically, as "Reverse Howard Johnson Syndrome".

ashie62 Jul 18 2023 01:36 PM Re: McDeal with McNeil

The car saga was discussed in Mookie Betts podcast The trade part I don't recall where I saw it so that's on me. I will look again

A Boy Named Seo Jul 18 2023 01:54 PM Re: McDeal with McNeil

I'd never heard the car thing before. He should get him Joc Pederson's old beater and call it a day. [TWEET]https://twitter.com/BRWalkoff/status/1680364035122790406[/TWEET]

Benjamin Grimm Jul 18 2023 02:28 PM Re: McDeal with McNeil

This reminds me of Carlos Beltran and his promise to Jon Niese's nose.

A Boy Named Seo Jul 18 2023 02:39 PM Re: McDeal with McNeil

I found a great car Francisco can get for McNeil. It's American made and on sale for only $1899 right down the street from Citi Field. https://images.autotrader.com/scaler/500/375/hn/c/4b88c3aaebaf42bead1e58406dc4eb5f.jpg> https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?listingId=686732343&city=Corona&isNewSearch=false&listingTypes=USED&marketExtension=include&maxPrice=2000&numRecords=24&referrer=%2Fcars-for-sale%2Fcars-under-2000%2Fcorona-ny%3FisNewSearch%3Dfalse%26marketExtension%3Dinclude%26numRecords%3D24%26searchRadius%3D10%26showAccelerateBanner%3Dfalse%26sortBy%3Drelevance%26zip%3D11368&searchRadius=10&showAccelerateBanner=false&sortBy=relevance&state=NY&zip=11368&clickType=listing

Edgy MD Jul 18 2023 04:23 PM Re: McDeal with McNeil

Sweet ride. I'm not advocating trading McNeil, but sometimes, looking at a player's contract strictly as an asset, trading low can be justified — if you don't have faith that low will rebound to high, or if you don't think waiting on a rebound is worth the roster spot and appearances that the player uses up while you wait.

A Boy Named Seo Jul 18 2023 04:55 PM Re: McDeal with McNeil

Yeah $10M next year in his age 32 season and $15M in '25 and '26 (with club option for another $15M or $2M buyout in '27) is pretty affordable if you believe he'll bounce back questionmarkquestionmarkquestionmark shrugemoji shrugemoji??? I would be shopping him pretty damn hard to put some arms in our top prospect drawers.

metirish Jul 18 2023 05:28 PM Re: McDeal with McNeil

Benjamin Grimm wrote: This reminds me of Carlos Beltran and his promise to Jon Niese's nose. Carlos did pay for the nose procedure though IIRC

Edgy MD Jul 18 2023 06:37 PM Re: McDeal with McNeil

Can you imagine a worse generous offer than a well-paid co-worker offering to buy you cosmetic surgery?

Edgy MD Aug 14 2023 10:14 AM Re: McDeal with McNeil

I spend an inordinate amount of time thinking about the future of Jeff McNeil. I wonder if, in the near-term, he might be best suited for third base, a move that (a) opens up second for Ronny Mauricio, (b) gets him out of a relationship with Francisco Lindor that may or may not be problematic, (c) puts him in a position that allows him to react more than think, which might ease up the grinding gears that seemingly fill his head, and (d) allows Baty and Vientos to focus on hitting from (mostly) the DH spot, and they can worry about adapting to the big leagues defensively after they've turned a corner on offense. He only played six innings there the last three seasons, but saw plenty of time there before that. A good feature from Steve Gelbs the other day spotlighted Ron Washington's role with the Braves, and how he makes a point in helping rookies through their adjustments, getting them to focus not on the alleged weak spots in their game, but on their strengths. And once they establish that their strengths play at the big league level, they can work on ironing out the rest of their game without the pressure of their MLB existence being on the line. This seemed to be both obvious and revelatory, and I'd like to see the Mets introduce rookies in a philosophically similar manner. So I'd like to see Batientos protected from defensive obligations as much as possible for the time being. Beyond that, though, I wonder if McNeil's future beyond this season may be in left field. If Mauricio is coming, and Baty and Vientos have come (if not anchored themselves in place), the soft spot in 2024 appears to be in left field, which (a) the Mets have largely vacated with the trades of Tommy Pham and and Mark Canha, and (b) isn't a very good opportunity to fill from the free-agent outfield class coming in this offseason. Also (c) McNeil has shown himself to be a pretty good corner outfielder, lacking only the polish of a regular on stuff like carom plays. Of course, the longer-term future for McNeil may be on a different team entirely. It's hard to read how frustrated (if at all) the Mets are with his substituting a potty mouth and red ass for productivity over extended periods, or with his swinging from All-Star-level to near-replacement-level offense every other season. McNeil came up on a parallel track to Alonso, and so, even in bad years, holds a share in what the team's identity is right now. His presence may even be part of Alonso's self-identity as a big-leaguer. He's a terrific all-round ballplayer when playing right, and continually hustles when playing poorly. Left? Right? Second? Third? Gone? I just don't know. But I think on it.

Benjamin Grimm Aug 14 2023 10:20 AM Re: McDeal with McNeil

I had been thinking left field for McNeil, since most of the Mets upper-level prospects were infielders, but the shakeup that occurred last month has infused more outfielders into the system, so who knows? I wouldn't be terribly surprised if he finished out his current contract with a different team.

Edgy MD Aug 14 2023 10:31 AM Re: McDeal with McNeil

Infused them into the system, mebbe, but whether any of them are ready to take a starting role in 2024 seems like a longshot. Also, Marte's future may be more of a mystery than McNeil's. Another Gelbs report (I think) suggested Joey Cora was predicting Marte wil be a 2024 All-Star and taking action in the clubhouse on the matter. Maybe, but from my seat, it seems as likely that he will be retired.

metirish Aug 14 2023 10:38 AM Re: McDeal with McNeil

Jeff is a very curious case , a magician last season with the bat , awful this season...hard to make sense of why he can't figure it out

Marshmallowmilkshake Aug 14 2023 10:42 AM Re: McDeal with McNeil

I think leftfield works out best if Baty gets his game back together and stakes a claim on third base. The good part about McNeil in the field is that he can plug in at multiple positions if needed. I guess a factor is if they want to go after a position player as a free agent, as they don't have too many holes assuming the stars stay put. Hopefully they are focusing on pitching instead!

Edgy MD Aug 14 2023 10:51 AM Re: McDeal with McNeil

I hadn't know there were reports on what they were focusing on. It's a weird year. They have the greatest free agent ever, and not many behind him who currently qualify as stars. The starting pitching group is deep but whether there's one standout target depends on how much you think Clayton Kershaw has left. And he's weird in that he's happy to play on one-year deals. But I'm not seeing any big offensive gets after Ohtani. Anyhow, I don't want to hijack my own thread theme.

MFS62 Aug 14 2023 11:55 AM Re: McDeal with McNeil

(I can't find it but) I read a story a few weeks ago about how the new MLB shift rule has hurt McNeil more than any other batter. There were lots of scatter diagrams and stats to back that up. If we see he hasn't made adjustments by the end of the year, I don't think his current production warrants re-signing him. Later

metsmarathon Aug 14 2023 12:02 PM Re: McDeal with McNeil

=MFS62 post_id=134882 time=1692035720 user_id=60] (I can't find it but) I read a story a few weeks ago about how the new MLB shift rule has hurt McNeil more than any other batter. There were lots of scatter diagrams and stats to back that up. If we see he hasn't made adjustments by the end of the year, I don't think his current production warrants re-signing him. Later

i have some bad news then...

2023 Contract Status: Signed thru 2026, 4 yrs/$50M (23-26) & 27 team option

Edgy MD Aug 14 2023 12:40 PM Re: McDeal with McNeil

Eyeball scouting to me doesn't say it's the shift screwing him, so much as not dealing well with the fastballs and sliders in on his hands. The weak grounders to the right would mostly be outs in a shift alignment as much as a straight-up alignment. Perhaps moreso. His last week has produced better results against such pitches and I hope he's turned a corner.

roger_that Aug 14 2023 12:46 PM Re: McDeal with McNeil

Edgy MD wrote: I'm not seeing any big offensive gets after Ohtani. An argument in favor of signing Alonso to a big long juicy contract, perhaps bigger and longer and juicier than seems sensible to any of us.

Centerfield Oct 17 2023 11:15 AM Re: McDeal with McNeil

Jeff McNeil after the All-Star Break: .291 Avg .775 OPS 7 HR (versus 3 before the break) Nothing earth shattering there, but much closer to the production we've seen. He was just awful in May/June/July. I was wondering if we'd hear something about him playing through injury.

The Hot Corner Oct 19 2023 09:03 PM Re: McDeal with McNeil

McNeil was very adept at going to the opposite field and exploiting an empty left side of the infield with the shift in 2022. Without that gaping opening to punch balls through he often seemed at a loss. Balls that were hits in 2022 often became 6-3 groundouts in 2023. When he was jammed with the hard stuff it often became a swinging strike, a 4-3 ground out, or a pop up. He did seem to have fond himself in the final 5-6 weeks of the season. He is a very good utility player. He can capably play second base and either corner outfield position. I see no reason that he could not be a capable third baseman as well with some time at the position. Assuming Mauricio can develop into a solid second baseman, as I imagine the Mets hope and envision, I see McNeil as more of a super sub (2nd, 3rd, LF, RF, LH PH, & DH). He should see substantial playing time in such a role. I'm just not sold on his bat, as an everyday corner outfielder.

Edgy MD Oct 19 2023 10:47 PM Re: McDeal with McNeil

I thought he was still fine when going the other way, shift or not. It was the slider inside that killed him. For months.

smg58 Oct 20 2023 08:46 AM Re: McDeal with McNeil

He had said when he got the UCL injury that he'd been dealing with stuff all year ([url]https://nypost.com/2023/09/29/mets-jeff-mcneil-has-partial-ucl-tear-in-left-elbow/). And I know there's an article out there with where he was more specific, but I can't find it right now. I think there was a combination of factors. You make pitchers pay for pitching you inside by pulling the ball with authority, but McNeil was unable to do that until the last month or so.

MFS62 Nov 20 2023 03:14 PM Re: McDeal with McNeil

I saw on Facebook that Lindor has bought McNeil a new Ford Bronco for winning the 2022 batting title. I'm not sure how old the story is. It is from Metsmerized.com. Later

metirish Nov 20 2023 03:19 PM Re: McDeal with McNeil

=MFS62 post_id=141480 time=1700518484 user_id=60] According to Metsmerized, Lindor has bought McNeil a new Ford Bronco for winning the 2022 batting title. Later

Wow , can finally put this to rest

metirish Nov 20 2023 03:20 PM Re: McDeal with McNeil

[TWEET]https://twitter.com/SNY_Mets/status/1726705178278277485[/TWEET] Picture

Edgy MD Nov 20 2023 03:27 PM Re: McDeal with McNeil

Now we'll know which car is his in the lot at Citi Field.

kcmets Nov 21 2023 06:46 AM Re: McDeal with McNeil

Promised me a Benz Bought me a Bronco