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New Fake Rule

Edgy MD Aug 15 2023 01:02 PM

Maybe you can't make a trade after the trading deadline, but if the parties are amenable, I modestly propose that a trade can be reversed. So if fortunes suddenly shift, and the Mets shockingly overtake the Marlins, the Mets may regret that they traded their closer (namely, David Robertson), as they are suddenly a viable contender for a playoff spot, and the Marlins may regret that they gave up future talent (namely Ronald Hernandez and Marco Vargas), for an edge in a pennant race that is suddenly falling away. If that unlikely happenstance should come about, whatsamatta with reversing the trade (besides the obvious, that it jerks the players around once again)? Not really making a proposal or a prediction here, really, just laying out a stupid thought experiment.

Chad ochoseis Aug 15 2023 01:08 PM Re: New Fake Rule

I'd think it would be unfair to the other contenders to allow certain teams to reverse certain decisions at will.

batmagadanleadoff Aug 15 2023 01:13 PM Re: New Fake Rule

What do you mean by reversing the trade? How would the teams justify that, even if they were both willing? The post trade deadline maneuver sounds like a brand new trade. But what if both teams, when they first made the trade, were each to receive PTBNLs? And as it turns out, the future PTBNLs are the same original players in the trade? Like a double Chiti.

batmagadanleadoff Aug 15 2023 01:20 PM Re: New Fake Rule

=batmagadanleadoff post_id=135011 time=1692126807 user_id=68] What do you mean by reversing the trade? How would the teams justify that, even if they were both willing? The post trade deadline maneuver sounds like a brand new trade. But what if both teams, when they first made the trade, were each to receive PTBNLs? And as it turns out, the future PTBNLs are the same original players in the trade? Like a double Chiti.

A PTBNL has to change leagues. Also, I'm not totally sure on this one -- he can't be on the 40 man roster.

Edgy MD Aug 15 2023 01:26 PM Re: New Fake Rule

=batmagadanleadoff post_id=135011 time=1692126807 user_id=68] What do you mean by reversing the trade?

Robertson returns to the Mets. Hernandez and Vargas return to the Marlins. All recall their few weeks of laboring for another organization with a mixture of fondness and chagrin.

batmagadanleadoff Aug 15 2023 01:29 PM Re: New Fake Rule

Edgy MD wrote: =batmagadanleadoff post_id=135011 time=1692126807 user_id=68] What do you mean by reversing the trade? Robertson returns to the Mets. Hernandez and Vargas return to the Marlins. All recall their few weeks of laboring for another organization with a mixture of fondness and chagrin.

I know. My bad. But how do you justify that transaction so that it doesn't come off as a brand new post-trade deadline deal, albeit one involving the same exact players?

Edgy MD Aug 15 2023 01:58 PM Re: New Fake Rule

It depends on what you think the spirit of the trade deadline rule is, I think. If the spirit of the rule is that a team shouldn't suddenly be transformed in the final weeks of the season into an entity that they had not been all year, and represent themselves in the playoffs suddenly enriched by some new ringers, then this wouldn't violate that spirit, as it's merely returning to a team players who had been with them most of the season — players who have established themselves as part of the team's identity. If the spirit of the rule is that opponents who have traded well and prospered should capitalize on the failed trades of opponents who haven't traded well and/or haven't prospered, along with the capitalizing on the faithlessness of the teams who divested and found themselves underequipped when their team suddenly re-eters the race, then my proposal is an offense to that spirit.

MFS62 Aug 15 2023 02:01 PM Re: New Fake Rule

(I may sound like a Trump lawyer, but ... ) The only way I think it could happen would be if one team (ahem) "Finds" (ahem) something in a player's medical report and declares the original trade null and void. And the other team agrees. I don't know if MLB would let it happen under the current CBA or MLB rules but it would be an interesting test case. Later

Edgy MD Aug 15 2023 02:18 PM Re: New Fake Rule

I don't think it can happen at all. It's a modest and not-particularly serious proposal for a rule change.

stevejrogers Aug 15 2023 02:49 PM Re: New Fake Rule

Edgy MD wrote: It depends on what you think the spirit of the trade deadline rule is, I think. If the spirit of the rule is that a team shouldn't suddenly be transformed in the final weeks of the season into an entity that they had not been all year, and represent themselves in the playoffs suddenly enriched by some new ringers, then this wouldn't violate that spirit, as it's merely returning to a team players who had been with them most of the season — players who have established themselves as part of the team's identity. If the spirit of the rule is that opponents who have traded well and prospered should capitalize on the failed trades of opponents who haven't traded well and/or haven't prospered, along with the capitalizing on the faithlessness of the teams who divested and found themselves underequipped when their team suddenly re-eters the race, then my proposal is an offense to that spirit. I know a few months is different than a few weeks, but you can use the old waiver/postseason roster deadline of August 31st for examples. I mean I've talked about it in the Verlander trade thread that some loon host on WEEI in Boston thought it would be possible that the soon to be free agent David Cone could wind up as the PTBNL that would join Jeff Kent going from Toronto to the Mets! But lets say Edwin Diaz was still on the Mariners for the last few years, had the same type of performances, but decided to sign with the Mets during the offseason. WBC injury still happens! Mets collapse though doesn't, so Robertson, Cahna, Escobar, JV and Max are still on the club. Wouldn't Diaz willing himself to be on the roster, and at least "co-closing" with Robertson before September 1st be akin to this as well? Ditto various months-long stints on a DL, or IL these days. I mean that often was a crutch GMs would use when defending lack of non-Proven Crap acquisitions around the deadline "Getting X back will be like a trade, only we aren't losing anyone." Also, define "back into a race." As a good run against similar or worse competition while the leaders of either WC or division stumble a little could give some false hope, that you can't guarantee the returning players would be able to keep the ball rolling with once the team starts playing teams with better records.

Edgy MD Aug 15 2023 04:13 PM Re: New Fake Rule

I assume that "get back in the race" would mean whatever the team looking to reverse the deal wants it to mean. But for the sake of the scenario, I imagined the Mets' and the Marlins' interests would reverse themselves the moment the Mets passed Miami in the standings. So, yeah, feel free to imagine that the maneuver could only occur after such a reversal of fortune. And yeah, I understand that it would be kind of a stinkeroonie deal in a small way for, say, the Phillies this year, as whichever team snuck into that last-place spot in that scenario would get to wield David Robertson in their cause, but the same opportunity would be available to those same Phils from year to year. And sure, though there's some upside in the proposal, it's mostly a bad idea. If it makes you feel better, I've had worse ones — possibly even today.