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Pham Bam!!

Edgy MD Sep 21 2023 09:34 AM

According to an otherwise wide-reaching Athletic story on the Mets failed aspirations this season, Tommy Pham quotes himself as telling Francisco Lindor, "Out of all the teams I played on, this is the least-hardest working group of position players I've ever played with." Pham goes on to counter that he had "a lot of respect for the work ethics of" Lindor, Pete Alonso, and Brandon Nimmo, so that kind gets them off the hook while mostly leaving Jeff McNeil under that bus, along with maybe some combination of Francisco Álvarez, Brett Baty, Mark Canha, Tim Locastro, Luis Guillorme, Starling Marte, Omar Narváz, Tomás Nido, and the like. Álvarez has been relentlessly praised for his work ethic in other quarters, for whatever that's worth. Due disclosure: I'm not an Athletic subscriber, so I'm paywalled out of the article and just reading the juicy bits second-hand and out of context.

kcmets Sep 21 2023 09:41 AM Re: Pham Bam!!

Sour grapes for four hundred please, Alex.

Johnny Lunchbucket Sep 21 2023 09:43 AM Re: Pham Bam!!

I don't doubt there was an issue somewhere, Pham doesn't seem to be the most reliable narrator though. Vogelbach and Cahna thrown under the bus too

Edgy MD Sep 21 2023 09:47 AM Re: Pham Bam!!

I got Canha in there. I guess I overlooked Vogelbach because he's a position player that doesn't play a position, which I guess is something of an indictment on its own. Hey, Tommy! Eduardo Escobar on the line and he's pissed!!

Benjamin Grimm Sep 21 2023 09:55 AM Re: Pham Bam!!

After a devastating sweep in Atlanta, Pham, infielder Eduardo Escobar, catcher Francisco Alvarez and star shortstop Francisco Lindor talked about small things that the Mets needed to improve in between bites of food at a Brazilian steakhouse, Fogo de Chão, in Pittsburgh. Pham, 35, has played on seven teams, and organizations know when negotiating with him that he brings an edge, strong work ethic and little tolerance for lackadaisical effort. For weeks ahead of the dinner, Lindor had held himself accountable after every crushing loss during a prolonged slump of his own, answering every question from every reporter every day. Pham respected Lindor's accountability as a leader, how he worked hard and never placed blame on others. As The Athletic reported earlier this month, the conversation started with Pham explaining that he wanted New York to roll out more than one batting-practice group because he used the time to work on live reads in the outfield. With Lindor, Pham felt comfortable sharing something that roamed in his mind after observing how often some players in the clubhouse played games like pool. Pham says he told Lindor, “Out of all the teams I played on, this is the least-hardest working group of position players I've ever played with.” Opinions varied on the subject. Per Pham's recollection, the players at the restaurant seemed receptive to what he had to say. In further explaining his comment later, he added that he held a lot of respect for the work ethics of the team's leaders: Lindor, Alonso and Brandon Nimmo. And Lindor told The Athletic's Ken Rosenthal that before Pham left in a trade to the Arizona Diamondbacks, Lindor said to Pham, “Hey man, thank you for teaching me how to work hard again.” “Guys are super professional around here,” Jeff McNeil countered. “We go about our business, and everybody comes ready to play and does what they need to do.” “Each person needs to assess that individually,” said Nimmo of the club's work ethic. “You can only lead a horse to water; you can't make him drink. Ultimately, a lot of this comes down to individuals and what they're willing to do.” Nimmo and others hesitated to place too much blame on any one thing. Presented with Pham's comment, one player understood the perspective “because the team results weren't there.” That said, “There's a lot of reasons you could point to,” he said. “I don't know which one is it.”

Edgy MD Sep 21 2023 10:12 AM Re: Pham Bam!!

There's a lot of ambiguity in Nimmo's comments (in most of them, really). I mean ... who's the horse? Damn, baseball players really seem to love Fogo de Chão.

kcmets Sep 21 2023 10:46 AM Re: Pham Bam!!

Edgy MD wrote: Damn, baseball players really seem to love Fogo de Chão. I've been to one near Radio City, it was a glutton-ess delight.

A Boy Named Seo Sep 21 2023 11:06 AM Re: Pham Bam!!

Just finished it. The TL:DR was basically, everything went wrong. The Pham quote was one of the many theories and most of them were not rebuked, but were met with replies like, "that could be it, but it could also be this other thing, too." Injuries, age, slow starts, regression, preparedness, WBC - all of them were, in some way or combination, valid reasons for the raging trash fire that was the 2023 Mets. Pete Alonso repeatedly trying to take all the blame made me love that big, hairy baby all the more. It was late in June, and Pete Alonso had ducked his head into Showalter's office — again — trying to explain himself. The month had unraveled into a nightmare for Alonso, a nightmare for the Mets. There had been a slump and a losing streak, an injury, a deeper slump and more losing. As Showalter would later recall, in those meetings, Alonso looked like he wanted to apologize for not driving in every run, for not hitting every home run. Alonso would plead to his manager, “This isn't who I am.” “Pete, I know,” Showalter would kindly respond. “You don't need to tell me this.” Looking back in late August, Showalter said it was important at the time to just let Alonso talk. “I guess it was more so for me,” Alonso later explained, “just showing that, listen, I am working, I am doing the best I can and I feel bad for not playing (well) — everyone has internal expectations, but for me personally, I pride myself on being as consistent as possible, and I wasn't that. “Especially doing all I did to come back early and do what I could to help, and I just failed. I was healthy. I was just failing way more than I was helping the team.” FWIW - the Athletic had a piece on Pham a couple few weeks ago and they interviewed a ton of players, coaches and managers and they all loved the shit out him. I can absolutely see how he could rub some people the wrong way after 7 months or so, but most loved his thoroughness when getting ready for a game and his unparalleled intensity (or never-ending red-assery if you don't like him). Edit: here's that Pham piece --> https://theathletic.com/4840461/2023/09/07/diamondbacks-tommy-pham-mlb/

metsmarathon Sep 21 2023 11:14 AM Re: Pham Bam!!

i do think that part of pete's problem is that he tries to do too much, too often. and that anecdote encapsulates it well enough. he's gotta let other people carry their weight too, and sometimes just get on base anywhichway, instead of flailing at sliders down and away hoping to just this one time actually make contact with it and smack it over the fence. (and i say this with as much love for pete alonso as a man could possibly have towards a baseball player he's never met and whose name is not david wright)

nymr83 Sep 21 2023 11:44 AM Re: Pham Bam!!

He can fuck off and go slap someone over fantasy football.

Marshmallowmilkshake Sep 21 2023 12:11 PM Re: Pham Bam!!

Kind of refutes the claims that Pete is a clubhouse cancer!

metsmarathon Sep 21 2023 12:32 PM Re: Pham Bam!!

well... what if everyone else wanted to blame themselves, and pete goes around hogging it all?! what a jerk!

kcmets Sep 21 2023 01:30 PM Re: Pham Bam!!

Have this song in my head all day, don't know why. Thank you, ma'am. And there's a Ziggy bonus to follow. [YOUTUBE]DaRAcmTKXmI[/YOUTUBE]

Benjamin Grimm Sep 26 2023 04:13 AM Re: Pham Bam!!

Buster Olney, by process of elimination, determined that Pham was talking about McNeil and Vogelbach.

A Boy Named Seo Sep 26 2023 11:46 AM Re: Pham Bam!!

Benjamin Grimm wrote: Buster Olney, by process of elimination, determined that Pham was talking about McNeil and Vogelbach. Was this in print or on tv somewhere? Those names make plenty of sense anyway. We've been speculating here on McNeil too and all the golf he (allegedly by me) won't stop playing.

kcmets Sep 26 2023 11:59 AM Re: Pham Bam!!

I saw this this morning... https://www.nj.com/mets/2023/09/two-mets-veterans-singled-out-for-work-ethic-criticism-report-says.html

Edgy MD Sep 26 2023 12:33 PM Re: Pham Bam!!

That headline is a little over-specific. "Two Mets Singled Out by Criticism ..." should probably say, "Process of Elimination Seems to Point to Two Possible Targets of Criticism ..." or the like. Work hard. Work smart. Be successful.

Marshmallowmilkshake Sep 26 2023 01:16 PM Re: Pham Bam!!

A Boy Named Seo wrote: Benjamin Grimm wrote: Buster Olney, by process of elimination, determined that Pham was talking about McNeil and Vogelbach. Was this in print or on tv somewhere? Those names make plenty of sense anyway. We've been speculating here on McNeil too and all the golf he (allegedly by me) won't stop playing.