Master Index of Archived Threads


pitching for your major league life: JOSE LIMA

duan May 18 2006 09:35 AM

You're 33, have earned over $25 million but right now you could be about to get your last go and the major league merry go round. [url]http://www.baseball-reference.com/l/limajo01.shtml[/url] You've a reputation as a big time charlie; but all that falls apart if nobody'll give you a job. Hell your wife may not even think you're so great anymore, singing sensation or not. First time round you'd some control issues, but were definitely given a really tough time by a home plate umpire - your catcher getting thrown out (leading to you conceding a run too) didn't help but "maybe" you still had game. Second time round, you did much better at the start; giving up just one run by the 4th inning but then came the 5th. That wasn't fun was it. Maybe it wasn't just the umpire, maybe it's just too easy for rookie 1b men to pound your not so fastball over the fence in centre field. [url]http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/playbyplay?gameId=260512108[/url]

Edgy DC May 18 2006 09:37 AM

How much pimp is too much pimp?

cleonjones11 May 18 2006 01:55 PM

Still don't want Pelfrey..Worst that can happen is he flops. Bannister was only a midlevel prospect and he was fne until he tripped...twice..

Centerfield May 18 2006 02:27 PM

I was ok with the "Wait and See" approach with Lima, especially considering they were expecting Bannister back quickly. But at this point, we have waited and seen, and it's clear Lima isn't the answer. Even for the short-term. This team cannot continue to carry two gaping holes in the rotation...especially now since it looks like Bannister has had a setback. Time for Omar to show us what he's worth and get something done.

old original jb May 18 2006 02:30 PM

Lima's near 9 ERA does not seem to be a fluke.

ScarletKnight41 May 18 2006 02:40 PM

I concur with CF. I've waited and seen enough of Lima. Lima Time is over.

sharpie May 18 2006 02:57 PM

He must go NOW. Since Bannister is out for a while it is imperative that we find someone else for the rotation. Move Heilman in from the pen or make a trade for the likes of an Odalis Perez, just do it.

Willets Point May 18 2006 03:04 PM

Put Lima in the pen and Heilman in the rotation and make an offer to a free agent.

KC May 18 2006 03:13 PM

Could you imagine Clemens becoming a Met and then sucking? I mean first off, he'd probably get booed up the wazoo his first start or two and if those starts weren't effective forget it. Secondly, I don't think he has any intention of putting on any NY uni other than where he can play on what I'm sure he considers the cathedral of baseball. Oh wait, I think the board already had this discussion. Never mind.

Willets Point May 18 2006 03:14 PM

Yup. I just have an agenda drum to beat.

KC May 18 2006 03:17 PM

I actually wasn't responding directly, can Mets fans imagine if ....

Edgy DC May 18 2006 03:32 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on May 18 2006 08:17 PM

Assuming they are giving up on Lima, but still going to give Jeriome another stab or two, they have the following internal options. Major League DL John Maine, eligible to come off DL tomorrow, status unknown. Brian Bannister, eligible to come off DL, status bleak. Major League Bullpenners Aaron Heilman (1.69 ERA in 21.1 relief innings) Darren Oliver (4.08 ERA in 17.2 relief innings) Heath Bell would look to be the first in line to replace Heilman on the roster. If they want to replace Olvier with a lefthander, they have a few options: Juan Perez (3.91 ERA in 23.0 IP) Ryan Cullen (4.50 in 6.0 IP, 3.12 in 17.1 IP in AA) Royce Ring (2-0, 4.91 in 7.1 IP) Blake McGinley (DL'd with 5.79 ERA in 4.2 IP) They could also call up a batsman to take Lima's spot on the roster. AAA Starters Evan MacLane (2-0, 0.64 ERA in 14.0 IP, 3-1, 4.64 ERA in 33.0 IP at AA) Yusaku Iriki (3.74 ERA in 21.1 IP, under suspension and ineligible for another month or so. Very disappointing.) Tim Lavigne (4.13 ERA in 28.1 IP, only two of 15 appearrances as a starter) Miguel Perez (4.50 ERA in 22.0 IP, 3.86 in 21.0 IP at AA) Jason Scobie (7.52 ERA in 40.2 IP, eh, no) AAA Starters Willie Collazo (2.15 ERA in 50.1 --- I said 50.1 --- IP) Alay Soler (1-0, 2.84 ERA in 12.2 IP, 2-0, 0.64 in 28.0 IP at A) Mike Pelfrey (4.15 in 21.2 IP, 1.64 in 22.0 at A) Leaving out the ineligibles, I'll rank the short-term in-house options thusly. Heilman Soler Oliver Pelfrey MacLane Lavigne Collazzo Perez Scobie Aa - Ron! Aa - Ron! Aa - Ron!

seawolf17 May 18 2006 03:48 PM

I was under the impression that the following were sorta truths: (a) They started with Bannister in the rotation and Heilman in the bullpen because they liked the overall staff that way. (b) They "said" (did they? maybe I'm making this up) that Heilman wouldn't slide into the rotation unless there was "some sort of extended absence." How much more extended would they like to get? Send Lima somewhere, anywhere, as far away as possible. Like Peru (get it?). Slot Heilman in for a bit, and if you want to give Jeremi Gonzalez another start or two, okay. But you have two big holes and nobody to fill them. I don't see how this is even a question. Heath Bell can certainly give you what Heilman does out of the bullpen.

ScarletKnight41 May 18 2006 04:07 PM

] Like Peru (get it?). I don't get it :(

Nymr83 May 18 2006 04:20 PM

ScarletKnight41 wrote: ] Like Peru (get it?). I don't get it :( our fine public school system at work.

Bret Sabermetric May 18 2006 04:33 PM

Dangerously close to implying that Scarlet is uneducated or willfully ignorant. I happen to know that she attended one of the finer private colleges in the U.S., where the geography department I'm sure covers South American cities, so you really can't blame the public school system for lacunae in her knowledge. In any case, commenting on other posters' lack of intelligence is a no-no around here.

Nymr83 May 18 2006 04:42 PM

thank you troublemaker, but i think most people knew i was kidding and not seriously attacking the intelligence of one of our more intelligent posters. i have no idea why you are trying to start shit between other people.

Centerfield May 18 2006 05:00 PM

Pssst, Scarlet, Lima is the capital of Peru...named after the guy who invented beans.

ScarletKnight41 May 18 2006 06:09 PM

Gotcha CF. Gracias (which is how they say thank you in Lima, Peru).

Bret Sabermetric May 18 2006 06:44 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on May 19 2006 03:30 AM

Nymr83 wrote: thank you troublemaker, but i think most people knew i was kidding and not seriously attacking the intelligence of one of our more intelligent posters. i have no idea why you are trying to start shit between other people. HELP!!! He called me a troublemaker! SAVE ME!! Personal attack!!! Unforgivable! I demand joooooostice!! RLF NOW!!!!! Arrrrggghhh! "Gone to the finest schools, all right, Miss Lonely, but yuh know yuh only used to get juiced in it!" OE: fixed Dylan lyrics

Johnny Dickshot May 18 2006 09:07 PM

Lima had some tough luck today, but on the downside he handled it like an absolute clown. I don't mind that they tried him, not one bit, especially after offering two younger, high-upside guys first. But he's not working out. I still like the idea of a trade here: Odalis Perez has been bumped to the bullpen and out of favor in LA. He couldn't be any worse and could come for a guy like Bell, or something.

Frayed Knot May 18 2006 09:27 PM

Really in all three of Lima's starts he's probably deserved somewhat better than the result -- Today: horrible call at 1st (out by a half-stride) plus his own error and about the dinkiest bloop on the planet ... all of which would count for something only if the results were within throwing distance of good. Instead, he would have needed all the luck he didn't get just to get to semi-mediocre and that's not going to cut it. As it stands now it doesn't look like they'll need a 5th starter until NEXT Saturday: Jeremi, Pedro, Glavine, OFF, Trax, Jeremi, Pedro, Glavine, ??, Trax

Rockin' Doc May 19 2006 04:50 AM One way only, please....

duan May 19 2006 05:31 AM

yeah in every start he got some tough breaks which had little to do with his pitching ... BUT it's not like he was on the cusp of a no-hitter only to have it snatched away by a bunt single or anything. I think Heillman's gotta be put in. He can get stretched out over this weekend by going for multiple innings rather then not; lord knows we're going to need someone to replace Gonzalez after a couple of IP. Bring him in as long man 2/3 times between and next saturday. The reason I can't get over this is that they're acting like Bannister & Maine are basically locks to be good major league starters. That's just not the case. By the way, i'd be well up for Odalis Perez - who could definitely be had for pennies on the $ seeing as he's getting starter money. My only fear is that they'll be a little scared of getting Kaz Ishii part 2.

Edgy DC May 19 2006 05:36 AM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on May 19 2006 08:31 AM

The only thing duan fears is fear itself. I fear his career is on a Lima track.

duan May 19 2006 06:38 AM

y'know i hear where you're coming from on that but the advantage that the mets have as a large market team is that they can take risks during the season where the cost of acquisition is primarily $ whereas other teams may need to expend talent due to budgetary constraints. I accept that it's a risk; I suppose I just feel that it's a $ gamble I'd be willing to make; in that the 3/4 wins above replacement a 'good' Odalis Perez could be worth to you has huge marginal value in a division which is going to be extremely tight. I think a bit depends on how much (if any) $ LA are prepared to eat, but if you said 'have him paying 60% of his this years salary and look after the rest yourself I'd be thinking about it.

Johnny Dickshot May 19 2006 07:34 AM

Stuff out there this morning suggesting the Mets could look at Kyle Lohse (balking at a AAA demotion) and Joe Mays (released by KC). The latter bit -- from an artricle clearly labeled "RUMOR MILL" at BTF, also suggests that little Mexican lefty Oliver Perez of Pittsburgh might be available. He's having a terrible year so maybe he's hurt. But he looked great in the past. Maybe he stopped roiding up. Not high on Lohse's upside but he's 26 and has at least had a few competant campaigns. Odalis Perez isn't speaking to reporters. By the way, Danys Baez has been a huge bust for the Dodgers -- they miss Duaner even more than we Seo, probably.

Elster88 May 19 2006 07:45 AM

Frayed Knot wrote: Really in all three of Lima's starts he's probably deserved somewhat better than the result -- Today: horrible call at 1st (out by a half-stride) plus his own error and about the dinkiest bloop on the planet ... all of which would count for something only if the results were within throwing distance of good. Instead, he would have needed all the luck he didn't get just to get to semi-mediocre and that's not going to cut it. Also the second run in the first inning doesn't score if Beltran had thrown to the cutoff man for once in his Met career. On Rolen's single, that is.

Edgy DC May 19 2006 08:41 AM

Yeah, but if Lima had gotten his share of breaks, his ERA is 5.50 instead of 9.00. But don't we (A) probably still lose all three games and (B) probably still need to dig further, but (C) have a team willing to give him one or two more chances? The only difference to my thinking is that the Sheathful might curse his name less. I knew Willie relaxed his grooming code this year, but Lima's look really suggests the whole thign has been trashcanned. I want to look at Heilman, and look at him for a month, as a starter. My suspicion is we'll get Orlando Hernandez (Limariffic ERA currently for a right-in-the-thick-of-it Diamondback team). Maybe for Matsui. Who knows? Fans would probably go for it, ballooning ERA and all.

Rotblatt May 19 2006 08:48 AM

Lohse is a disaster. He's been even worse than Lima through 8 starts this season. We should be able to get him for close to nothing (he just got optioned to AAA), but do we want him? He's been around average over his career, and that's worth something, but I'd much, much, much rather give Heilman a shot than throw Lohse in there. Lohse at best is going to be a competent #5 guy, but Heilman could be a #3.

Edgy DC May 19 2006 09:00 AM

What's funny is that Heilman in the rotation would maybe make the Mets a team with the top four guys in the rotation having a changeup as their best pitch. (Maybe, as Trachsel, to my thinking, doesn't necessarily have a best pitch.)

Hillbilly May 19 2006 09:11 AM

Rotblatt wrote: Lohse is a disaster. He's been even worse than Lima through 8 starts this season. We should be able to get him for close to nothing (he just got optioned to AAA), but do we want him? He's been around average over his career, and that's worth something, but I'd much, much, much rather give Heilman a shot than throw Lohse in there. Lohse at best is going to be a competent #5 guy, but Heilman could be a #3. I agree Lohse is a bad plan. Give Soler a shot. He has a good start last night and seems to be pitching well now that he's in the organization. Hell, he's been paid enough money - give him a look for a few starts to see if he can start earning some of that nice deal he got.

Vic Sage May 19 2006 10:25 AM

this is just so so stupid. Zambrano is out for the season. We're not looking for a short-term fix... we need to replace a #4 starter, who'll get 180-200 IP over the course of a season. And we'd rather keep Heilman to 60 IP for the year, while giving the additional 120 IP to Lima? or Lohse? or Gonzalez? or retread x,y, or z? or AA guys? i feel like i'm in the Twilight Zone... everybody is speaking in tongues. PUT HEILMAN IN THE FUCKING ROTATION GODDAMN IT! you can replace his 7th inning role more readily than finding a solid SPer. Julio has pitched better, and Heath Bell still has potential, and there are other candidates to whom you can give the ocasional 6th and 7th innings. But if we can't get into the 6th inning with a lead, isn't a great middle-inning/setup guy of less value? Its a luxury the Mets don't have right now. I was never a big Heilman fan, but its not like he wasn't a dominant SPer in college, and a good one in the minors, and while he bombed early in that role on the Mets, he's shown alot the last 2 seasons. this is even worse than batting Wright 6th-7th last season, reducing his ABs, or 5th (rather than 2nd or 3rd) this season. this is giving around 120 IP to guys like Lima, Gonzalez, etal, instead of Heilman, because your so concerned about giving Heilman's next 40 IP to Julio or Bell. STOP THE MADNESS!!!

Willets Point May 19 2006 10:28 AM

Ditto to Vic Sage.

Vic Sage May 19 2006 10:52 AM

WP makes sense. and don't talk to me about Heilman's "high leverage" innings. The highest "leverage" inning is the FIRST inning... i'm pretty sure that teams that take an early lead win a preponderance of those games. Letting Lima/Gonzalez/Lohse/Mays/etc consistenly put us in a 5-run hole by the 3rd inning really makes Heilman's "high leverage" 7th innings alot less meaningful. and its not like we aren't going to have to use those crapsters in the 5TH SLOT in the rotation anyway, joining Maine, Bannister, Oliver and whoever in that mix. But turning over both the 4th and 5th SPer slots, behind a mediocrity like Trax in the 3rd slot, is a recipe for disaster and it MUST STOP RIGHT FUCKING NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

Edgy DC May 19 2006 11:13 AM

I agree that Heilman belongs in the rotation. But the highest leverage inning is not the first inning.

Hillbilly May 19 2006 12:52 PM

Willie on the fan: Reaffirms that Heilman stays in the pen, but won’t commit to Lima getting his next start. He said we’ll hear something in a day or two about Jose. I’m thinking this meeting to ‘reevaluate’ his situation to find out what his new job is with the Mets since he ain’t going to be a pitcher on the Major league roster anymore, and maybe decide who’s going to give him the bad news.

Nymr83 May 19 2006 01:10 PM

Hillbilly wrote: I’m thinking this meeting to ‘reevaluate’ his situation to find out what his new job is with the Mets since he ain’t going to be a pitcher on the Major league roster anymore, and maybe decide who’s going to give him the bad news. Willie: tell him Rick: i ain't tellin him, i told the last guy Willie: if you'd told the last guy why was he still here? Rick: i thought i could fix him in ten more minutes, it's not my fault he went on the DL Fred: ok Omar, you tell him Omar: no, i can't disrespect one of my spanish countrymen, you'll have to tell him Fred: so who is replacing this guy anyway? Omar: theres this great hispanic pitcher on the dodgers who i hear is available, we can get him for Bell or Ring if we pay his salary... Fred: pay his salary? what did i tell you about the budget! Omar: well i'm sure if we gave up Pelfrey we could pay less Fred: i'm liking what i hear... what if we threw in Milledge? Willie: whoa, calm down guys i don't really think this guy is so good... Rick: nonsense, i'll have him fixed in 5 minutes, Pelfrey will never be any good anyway, just like that scrub we gave the D-Rays, nobody even knows who he is now right? Fred: well i do like the idea of trading 2 highly touted prospects for one washed up pitcher if it saves me on his salary, but what about internal options? you know, the ones that are totally free! Omar: well, i did trade away Benson and Seo sot hat Heilman could pitch in the first place, maybe if we let him... Willie: Hey! Heilman is my 5th inning guy! how the hell do you expect me to win ball games without having someone behind Wagner, Sanchez, Julio, and Bradford to pitch that crucial 5th inning!

Vic Sage May 19 2006 02:10 PM

="Edgy DC"] But the highest leverage inning is not the first inning. i know, but still. can't the team at least acknowledge that its a better strategy to put heilman in the rotation and either (1) either find an adequate middle inning guy, or (2) spread the extra innings out of the rest of the pen, than it is to keep turning games pitched by Lima/etc, over to the bullpen (including heilman) in the 4th or 5th inning, by which time we're already down by 5. we can keep aaron in the pen for those "high leverage" innings in the 6th and 7th, but 2 games out of 5 we don't have any high leverage innings for him to pitch.

Edgy DC May 19 2006 02:13 PM

"i can't disrespect one of my spanish countrymen"?

Vic Sage May 19 2006 02:14 PM

hey Edgy... i didn't know you were from Spain!