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Spot Starters--OK, let's try this again.

old original jb May 23 2006 11:02 AM

Bret Sabermetric wrote: For years and years, MLB teams carried one or two guys on the roster at all times who could step into the rotation for a couple of weeks, and then go back to long relief when the starters got healthy again. Heilman seems perfect for such a role, as does Oliver. Did some epochal event happen while I wasn't watching to make this option into a revolutionary choice? Of course your bullpen would be shorthanded during that time. So what? Your eighth-best reliever becomes number 7, etc. and you call up (or pick off the waiver wire) a new guy to pitch in blowouts, while your blowout guy gets tested in slightly more challenging roles for a few weeks. When did this become an option you would only employ at the end of the world, and maybe not even then? ="GYC"] Jorge Julio in the month of May Games 7 Innings 8.2 Hits 6 ER 2 BB 5 K 10 ERA 2.08 BAA .194 I understand not having Heilman in at first when Bannister went down as it was only supposed to be a minor injury, but once you lose Bannister, Maine, and then Zambrano for the season, you need to do it because your short-term minor problem just because a long-term disaster. Bret Sabermetric wrote: Where the fuck did the concept of "stretching out your pitcher" come from? What is he? A cashmere sweater? It's a huge issue to ask Heilman to give you five innings a few times until Bannister comes back? Tell me, if the Mets go through 5 pitchers in 9 innings, as they sometimes do, and then get into one of these 22-innning jobs, they're going to ask someone to give them 6 or 7 innings, aren't they? Probably someone selected at random, with no prep or anything, right? SO WTF is the big deal in having Heilman take a couple of turns? They guy has been a starter, he want to be a starter, the Mets badly need a starter-- Is this rocket surgery?.... ="Brett Sabermetric"]What the Yankees did tonight with Aaron Small is what I have in mind. I know, he got hit the second time through the order, but he was certainly an effective starter last year, as was Heilman at times, and it's certainly stupid to pretend that neiither could possibly pitch well in a starting role (as opposed to Lima, say, where that's a pretty fair assumption before he gets a start and a no-brainer afterwards.) For the few weeks Heilman starts, you increase Sanchez's load a bit, give Wagner a few two-inning saves, you give Bradford and Feliciano etc. a little more work and responsibility, and you get through it until Bannister or Maine or Zito or some other long-term solution is ready.... (For full text in all its glory see "Insulting Omar's Mother". My excerpting is designed to redirect discussion back to the spot starter issue.)

MFS62 May 23 2006 01:00 PM

May have posted these before: Steve Small was last year's Yankee version of what Terry Leach was one year for the Mets. Terry emerged from total obscurity (minors, major league middleman) to become an emergency starter. IIRC he won his first nine starts and was 10- when the starters got healthy, and he was sent back to the bullpen without a whimper. Jim Bouton came out of the bullpen and pitched seven innings in an extra-inning affair for the Yanks against Detroit. That proved that he could be a starter, and the Yanks put him in the rotation. I guess making all that costume jewelry was good for his arm. Later

Bret Sabermetric May 24 2006 11:29 AM

By "Steve" you mean, of course, "Aaron." Okay, now that WWSB has conveniently provided me with an actual example, sparing me the need for hypotheticals, let me ask again: If Oliver could pitch a very solid 4 innings of relief last night. why is it any kind of deal, much less a big one, to schedule a 5 inning start for him, or for Heilman, or for both for a short while until Bannister or Maine or Zito can step in? I do not get the crucial difference here where a 4-inning appearance is just fine, because you really need someone to step in in an extra-inning game, but a 5-inning (and doesn't even have to be 5, as LIma has amply demonstrated) appearance as a starter is OOTFQ.

sharpie May 24 2006 11:47 AM

Well he did say that he was considering Oliver for the spot-start tomorrow and implied that he was the leading candidate -- until the game went into the 13th last night and he elected to go with Oliver over Gonzalez. Hard to argue after the result he got. If Jeremi or Soler tanks, I would think that Oliver will start next time those spots in the rotation come up.

Rotblatt May 24 2006 01:08 PM

[url=http://www.nytimes.com/2006/05/24/sports/baseball/24chass.html]Times article[/url] about Heilman, including this quote from Willie: ]"Aaron Heilman makes our bullpen as solid as any bullpen in the league," Randolph said. "As a starter, you can talk all you want about what he can do, but it's not automatic." By this logic, Johann Santana & Liriano would both still be in the Twin's bullpen. I mean, they were great pitching in relief, and who's to say that they would be any more valuable in the rotation, right?

RealityChuck May 24 2006 01:09 PM

But the situation's different for each team and each player, isn't it?

Edgy DC May 24 2006 01:22 PM

They allow Glavine to endorse leaving him in the pen without pointing to Glavine's conflict of interest.

Rotblatt May 24 2006 02:43 PM

Good point, Edgy, but the Glavine quote disturbed me for another reason too. I mean, the kind of guys he's talking about ARE rare in the bullpen, and they're rare for a reason--because guys who can do all that usually START. Unless, of course, they don't have the stamina for it, which isn't an issue for Heilman. Hopefully Soler will turn out to be decent and Bannister will come back and regain his long-lost control and leaving Heilman in the pen won't hurt us too much. But that's a whole lot of ifs, if you ask me.

Elster88 May 24 2006 02:46 PM

Rotblatt wrote: I mean, the kind of guys he's talking about ARE rare in the bullpen, and they're rare for a reason--because guys who can do all that usually START. Unless, of course, they don't have the stamina for it, which isn't an issue for Heilman. Excellent point.

Bret Sabermetric May 24 2006 02:47 PM

RealityChuck wrote: But the situation's different for each team and each player, isn't it? To non-quantifiable types, of course, this post should suffice for every single situation in any baseball game ever played. No need to post beyond this point, ever, is there?