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Who Gives a Crap?

Elster88 May 23 2006 11:58 AM

The All-Purpose "Are They Really Pretending That Stat is a Big Deal?" Thread. Here's one that I've seen a couple of times since Soler's callup was announced...but nymets.com is now actually calling it "historic". In no other season of their last 20 have the Mets used a ninth starting pitcher before their 65th game.

sharpie May 23 2006 12:24 PM

Albert Pujols being the fastest to hit 19 home runs was pretty silly.

Edgy DC May 23 2006 12:27 PM Edited 3 time(s), most recently on May 25 2006 11:29 AM

Well, it is meaningful, just not definitively so, as long as you don't make too much of it, which apparently nymets.com did. 1) It's not like the 1965 Mets (or many of their cousins) considered themselves set in the rotation. They just threw the same guys out there for a lack of belief that they had any options. 2) Through 1967 or so, they'd have been working with four-man rootations. 3) (This one is most important.) It's not like virtually the whole intended rotation has been displaced like in 1987. We've just turned over the back end a few times. That's not good, mind you. 4) You can enter the season with all yoiur best pitchers hurt from the year before or from the offseason or from spring, maintain an ugly stability for the first quarter season, and look better, by this statisttic (or statisticky thing), than the team that had the back end of their rotation come up hurt after the season started.

MFS62 May 23 2006 01:02 PM

The NL pitcher who sees the oppposing pitcher come to bat against him twice in the first inning is having a bad day. LAter

RealityChuck May 23 2006 01:45 PM

MFS62 wrote: The NL pitcher who sees the oppposing pitcher come to bat against him twice in the first inning is having a bad day. If he sees him bat once, it's a bad day. Twice isn't going to happen -- he'll be pulled by then.

metirish May 23 2006 01:48 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on May 23 2006 02:25 PM

Do we really need to see that a hitter is 1 for 3 lifetime against the pitcher he's facing, or 2 for 5 for that matter......I mean those two hits coulda been game winning hits but for the most part probably not.

Johnny Dickshot May 23 2006 02:09 PM

Back in the day I tried to drum up interest in a Metfan faction against misusing and overapplying statistics (small sample sizes, mistakenly believing they have predictive values when they don't, advocating managing games by such ideas as L-R splits, etc, etc etc). Named for our loveable pitcher of the time, MASATO: Metfans Against Statistical And Tactical Overkill

Elster88 May 25 2006 10:50 AM

="Edgy DC"]Well, it is meaningful, just not definitively so, as long as you don't make too much of it, which apparently nymets.com did. 1) It's not like the 1965 Mets (or many of their cousins) considered themselves set in the rotation. They just threw the same guys out there for a lack of belief that they had any options. 2) Through 1967 or so, they'd have been working with four-man rootations. 3) (This one is most important.) It's not like virtually the whole intended rotation has been displaced like in 1987. We've just turned over the back end a few times. That's not good, mind you. 4) You can enter the season with all yoiur best pitchers hurt from the year before or from the offseason or from spring, maintain an ugly stability for the first quarter season, and look better, by this statisttic (or statisticky thing), than the team that had the back end of their rotation come up hurt after the season started. I think you missed my point completely. If they had said all of what you did, it would've been meaningful. But instead they told us it was the only season of their last 20 have the Mets used a ninth starting pitcher before their 65th game. So my response to that is: In how many seasons out of the past 17 did they use seven starting pitchers before their 38th game? And when in the past 26 seasons did they use ten starting pitchers by their 73rd game? (Actually, my response is "Who gives a crap?")

Bret Sabermetric May 25 2006 10:56 AM

40% Bran works for me.

Edgy DC May 25 2006 11:28 AM

I didn't miss your point, just extending the thought, even though I brought the sixties teams into it, which aren't referenced in the reporting of the "historical" stat.

RealityChuck May 25 2006 11:51 AM

But isn't the number of pitchers really irrelevant? What's important is the team's record, and whether they do it with 7 pitchers or 15 is meaningless.

Elster88 Jun 06 2006 10:37 AM

I think this one is cool and actually do give a crap...I just didn't know where else to put it. ]Two years ago, Ken Griffey Jr. hit his 500th home run at old Busch Stadium. His first game at new Busch was pretty memorable, too. Griffey hit a go-ahead three-run homer off Jason Isringhausen in the ninth inning after tying a major league record by homering in his 43rd stadium earlier in the game, leading the Cincinnati Reds past the St. Louis Cardinals 8-7 Monday night.

Yancy Street Gang Jun 06 2006 10:43 AM

FORTY-THREE? Holy cow, that's a lot. There's really been a lot of ballpark turnover, hasn't there? I wonder, can he extend that record? Are there any current parks he hasn't homered in?

MFS62 Jun 06 2006 10:44 AM

F'n reporters. Who's record did he tie? I hat it when they do that. Later

Elster88 Jun 06 2006 10:45 AM

I just found it in the AP report of the game. There were no more details in it.

Edgy DC Jun 06 2006 10:59 AM

]Are there any current parks he hasn't homered in? I guess New RFK is the next in the pipeline, followed by new Shea and New Yankee.

Elster88 Jun 06 2006 11:05 AM

Did he miss any of the newest AL parks?

Edgy DC Jun 06 2006 11:15 AM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jun 06 2006 11:36 AM

He has homered at RFK. Two Missed Opportunities: He never homered (in eight games and 35 plate appearances) at the old Comiskey. He had nine hits, including a triple, there. He never homered (in one game and four plate appearances) at Exhibition Stadium. He had one hits, a double, there. Joel Zumaya Entering this season he had never homered at Detroit's Comerica Park (or whatever they call it.) He had only one hit in 14 plate appearances there. In perhaps his last series there this season, he hit a grand slam off of Joel Zumaya on May 20th. The Reds lost anyhow.

sharpie Jun 06 2006 11:23 AM

Reds should go to Japan or Puerto Rico or something to start next season so that Griffey can set the record. (on edit): When are the 2005 player rankings going to happen. How long do we pretend that Jae Seo wasn't on the Mets last season? He also pitched one inning in '02.

metirish Jun 06 2006 11:25 AM

Griffey could be a MFY by the trade deadline Sharpie.

Elster88 Jun 06 2006 12:09 PM

Did anyone figure out who he tied? It must be another current or fairly recently retired player. Bonds didn't spend time in the AL, ditto for Raffy and Canseco in the NL. Sosa didn't start taking steroids until he was a Cub. McGwire?

Edgy DC Jun 06 2006 12:17 PM

Good guess, but I count 39 for McGwire.

MFS62 Jun 06 2006 12:48 PM

I think I read a while ago that Dave Winfield held the record. He played in some of the older parks that were torn down before Griffey came up to the majors, so the lists are different. Later

Elster88 Jun 06 2006 12:53 PM

Ohhh. Good one. But you should've taken credit for it instead of saying you read it.

Edgy DC Jun 06 2006 12:59 PM

Not Winnie. Nor is it Eddie Murray nor Rusty Staub. I've got the answer if anybody wants to keep guessing.

Elster88 Jun 06 2006 01:01 PM

Frank Robinson?

Edgy DC Jun 06 2006 01:08 PM

Not Frank.

Yancy Street Gang Jun 06 2006 01:14 PM

Is it Twenty Questions time? Was he active in the 2000 season?

metirish Jun 06 2006 01:17 PM

Willie Mays or Mike Schmidt?

Edgy DC Jun 06 2006 01:18 PM

Um, OK, but it'll probably take far fewer than 20. irish, no and no.

Yancy Street Gang Jun 06 2006 01:20 PM

Was he active in the 2000 season?

metirish Jun 06 2006 01:21 PM

Is he currently playing for the yankees?

Edgy DC Jun 06 2006 01:26 PM

1) Was he active in the 2000 season? No. 2) Is he currently playing for the yankees? Nein.

MFS62 Jun 06 2006 01:32 PM

Crime Dog? Later

Edgy DC Jun 06 2006 01:36 PM

Fred McGriff it is. McGriff homered in the following places of Major League competition: Anaheim Stadium/Edison International Field of Anaheim/Angel Stadium of Anaheim Arlington Stadium The Astrodome Atlanta-Fulton County Stadium The Ballpark in Arlington/Ameriquest Field in Arlington Busch Stadium II Candlestick Park/3Com Park at Candlestick Point Cleveland Stadium Comiskey Park I Comiskey Park II/US Cellular Field Coors Field County Stadium Dodger Stadium Enron Field/Astros Field/Minute Maid Park Fenway Park The Hubert H. Humphrey Metrodome Jacobs Field Joe Robbie Stadium/Pro Player Stadium/Dolphins Stadium The Kingdome Memorial Stadium Mile High Stadium Miller Park Oakland-Alameda County Coliseum/ UMAX Coliseum/Network Associates Coliseum Oriole Park at Camden Yards Pacific Bell Park/ SBC Park/AT&T Park PetCo Park PNC Park Riverfront Stadium/Cinergy Field Royals Stadium/Kauffman Stadium Safeco Field San Diego Stadium/Jack Murphy Stadium/Qualcomm Stadium Shea Stadium The Skydome/Rogers Centre Stade Olympique Three Rivers Stadium Tiger Stadium Tropicana Field Turner Field Veterans Stadium Wrigley Field Yankee Stadium He came up short (and can still come back and try again) at the following: Bank One Ballpark/ Chase Field (10 G, 43 PA) The Great American Ball Park (3 G, 13 PA)

Edgy DC Jun 06 2006 01:40 PM

I think Julio Franco is at 32 after adding PetCo.

Gwreck Jun 06 2006 02:11 PM

The McGriff list has only 41 stadiums. I think it's missing Exhibition Stadium and Comerica Park.

Edgy DC Jun 06 2006 02:17 PM

Yeah, looks like it. I have to go to the doctor and find out why I can't count no more. Enumerate them your own bad self.

Gwreck Jun 06 2006 02:21 PM

Only caught it because of the Griffey-at-Exhibition stadium thing. Had completely forgotten that SkyDome opened in mid-season. Then saw the McGriff thing and was surpised to not see it there. I'd somehow missed that feature of Retrosheet before. Thanks.

MFS62 Jun 06 2006 02:24 PM

]places of Major League competition ?? Youda' thunk an editor would have just said "ballparks" or "stadia". Is there any particular reason you chose that phrase? Just found it curious. And, did he retire before the Expos played in Hi Bithorn Stadium in San Juan? Or did he just not hit one there? Later

Edgy DC Jun 06 2006 02:28 PM

]Youda' thunk an editor would have just said "ballparks" or "stadia". No, apparently not. ]Is there any particular reason you chose that phrase? Clarity plus fun. He appears not ot have played at Hiram Bithorn.

MFS62 Jun 06 2006 02:33 PM

It was fun. I got a kick out of the phrase. And I thought it was your way of saying that Hiram Bithorn is not really a major league stadium. I was there. The only thing major league about it is the statue of Roberto Clemente that stands outside it. (But IIRC the food and beer weren't bad.) Later