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Catch the Ball, Paul

Johnny Dickshot May 24 2006 12:04 PM

Damn straight I was hard on LoDuca last night after muffing a perfectly easy play at home, which woulda been the third out and instead turned into a 4-run rally. Two other times this year LoDuca has failed to gather in a throw at the plate and make a tag -- opening day, which he cleverly got away with, and a more recent game I can't recall in my sleep-deprived state, which was a much more difficult play but one I remarked on for its crucialness. Help me out: what was game was that? The point was, all defensive players encounter high-difficulty plays from time to time, and if you make them, they're HUGE. Has LoDuca successfully and cleanly executed a tag out at home yet this year? What to do? Discuss.

Edgy DC May 24 2006 12:13 PM

Jason Phillips also had trouble making the grab with a runner bearing down. I don't know what to do. Handling throws from the catcher on steals was my bugbear as a defensive secondbaseman. They were trying to call it a tough hop, but it looked pretty clean and readable to me. I guess what to do is to drill him on it for a few hours, perhaps under Gary Carter's supervision, but it probably won't be today.

ABG May 24 2006 12:17 PM

]and a more recent game I can't recall in my sleep-deprived state, which was a much more difficult play but one I remarked on for its crucialness. Help me out: what was game was that? Pretty sure it was the first Yankee game, wasn't it? I listened to that one on the radio, so could be wrong.

Bret Sabermetric May 24 2006 12:31 PM

Disregard previous posts as good-natured friendly teasing, of course. But seriously, the first thing I'd like to know is if there are "putouts at home" recorded anywhere in this stats-obsessed universe. Seems to me that we should have a database (or should create one) establishing the norms for putouts on tag plays at the plate, over the course of a season or a career. Discussing this out of any context is pure speculation, though it's NTTAWWT.

MFS62 May 24 2006 01:17 PM

The idea of a breakout of catcher tag putouts is something I've wondered about in the past. They just get lumped in with putouts as a result of strikeouts and catching popups. The assignment of the error on a home plate tag borders on the mystical, too. Sometimes the scorer (or the tv replay) really can't tell if it was a result of a bad hop on the throw home. Later

Centerfield May 24 2006 01:19 PM

The part I wondered about, and I don't know if this makes any difference or not, but why did LoDuca has his mask on? I've never seen a catcher leave it on before.

KC May 24 2006 01:29 PM

One would think it's more difficult to take a bounced throw from the outfield while peering though a catchers mask. Regarding the notion of breaking out catcher put outs, would we also rate them with degree of difficulty, number of bounces, % of plate blocked (or not in the case of the infamous Piazza method), size and make of catchers mitt, from LF, CF, RF (or infield), sexual orientation of the catcher? I mean c'mon, if we're gonna break it out let's break it out.

Vic Sage May 24 2006 01:38 PM

KC, i don't think it would be easy to create the stat, and there may be a number of factors in play, but i really don't see anything wrong with the suggestion that it'd be interesting to try to understand the nature and extent of a particular skill that some catchers may be better at than others.

Bret Sabermetric May 24 2006 03:01 PM

seawolf17 wrote: So a guy had twelve putouts on throws over the course of a year, and four errors. I just don't think it tells us anything. That's where you're wrong. It doesn't tell us anything if one guy had 4 errors in 16 tag plays and another had none in 16 plays? It may not tell us much, but that ain't nothing. As it stands, we're flying on the fumes of anecdotes, so I'd suggest any quantification is a real improvement.

Johnny Dickshot May 24 2006 03:01 PM

I wasn't even asking for a stat, other than if anyone can remember whether LoDuca handled even one PATP cleanly this year. I see this as a little different from the Piazza argument in that I intend only to deal with specific instances wwhere a clear error (or a clear unsuccessful execution for a specific reason) is carried out, as opposed to the more esoteric and hard to define question of positioning (also, a lack of specific instances where a supposed preference for positioning was damaging). Not to bring that up again. I repeat -- has Dook tagged a guy out at home plate yet this year?

KC May 24 2006 03:10 PM

JD: >>>has Dook tagged a guy out at home plate yet this year?<<< I'm pretty sure there was an excellent plate blocking play or two that started a thread or added a couple of pages to an existing one. I don't recall the spe- cifics, but the legs under were pointing to a kinda "that's how a catcher plays" versus the "way a catcher doesn't" - without getting into that, of course.

Edgy DC May 24 2006 03:17 PM

I think the play was the opening day one that made his juggle into a tag. Both a good play and a bad one, I guess.

Farmer Ted May 24 2006 03:19 PM

"Jason Phillips also had trouble making the grab with a runner bearing down" And the man is no longer a professional athlete at the major league level. After seing A.J. Pirxnbbzndnhwsky barrel over Michael Barrett over the weekend (nice sucker punch by the way, ass puss), I'm surprised any of these guys catch a ball on a play at the plate.