Master Index of Archived Threads


Its Milledge Time

MFS62 May 30 2006 11:20 AM

http://www.sny.tv/index.jsp Nady placed on the DL. Lastings will start tonight. Later

metirish May 30 2006 11:22 AM

Holy shit...

Benjamin Grimm May 30 2006 11:23 AM

Centerfield May 30 2006 11:23 AM

Where is Victor Diaz?

Hillbilly May 30 2006 11:25 AM

That's huge!!!

MFS62 May 30 2006 11:25 AM

Last time I looked, Diaz was hitting far below .250 at Norfolk. Don't want to put any additional pressure on the kid (so please don't show him this post) but this is the anniversary of the start of Lou Gehrig's consecutive game streak. Later

soupcan May 30 2006 11:28 AM

Xavier? Wally Pipp on line 1.

Frayed Knot May 30 2006 11:29 AM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on May 30 2006 11:32 AM

Is it just me or is everyone else getting just a page of Milledge's stats where it says "More" off that link instead of details? Like what's with Nady? Why now? Who's being dropped from the 40-man?, etc Edit: OK. now FAN is carrying the news also. Seems that Nady needs "an emergency appendectomy"!?! That could mean several weeks.

metirish May 30 2006 11:31 AM

Damn, that sucks for Nady and the Mets....that surgery I imagine will affect his swing for a long while.

RealityChuck May 30 2006 11:31 AM

Wow. But Nady will be back, at the very least, next year when Cliff leaves.

soupcan May 30 2006 11:31 AM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on May 30 2006 11:32 AM

Emergency appendectomy for Nady immediately after last night's game. OE: But you knew that already.

KC May 30 2006 11:32 AM

Holy crap ...

Hillbilly May 30 2006 11:33 AM

[OK. now FAN is carrying the news also. Seems that Nady needs "an emergency appendectomy"!?! That could mean several weeks.

That could be longer. Was this from getting HBP last night? Too weird..

Centerfield May 30 2006 11:33 AM

This is bad news. Nady had been a pleasant surprise. I hope he gets back quickly.

MFS62 May 30 2006 11:33 AM

Sorry. I thought I had posted a link to the story on the SNY site. If you need one, the story is there. Tim McCarver would call it an "error of enthusiasm". I'm so excited.... Later

HahnSolo May 30 2006 11:34 AM

If they caught that appendix before it burst which I assume they did, it shouldn't take him that long to get back.

Frayed Knot May 30 2006 11:35 AM

IIRC, Bernie Williams had one during ST a few years back and was out for the better part of a month. Adrian Beltre had one and it screwed up most of his year but that was due to some infection/complications because I think he got it from some witch doctor in the DR. Suxx for Nady. Gets his first chance to play full-time and is doing reasonably well ... then splat!

Frayed Knot May 30 2006 11:40 AM

MFS62 wrote: Sorry. I thought I had posted a link to the story on the SNY site. If you need one, the story is there The link to SNY is working. It's just that whichever link I click on: the one for more on the story or the one for his stats, both lead me to his stats. No big deal. ]Lastings will start tonight FAN said they just spoke to the Mets; they confirm that Milledge will be up but have not said whether he'll start. Though it makes sense that if he's going to be here he'd start fairly regularly while he is.

seawolf17 May 30 2006 11:41 AM

!!! Damn! I'm pumped.

Benjamin Grimm May 30 2006 11:41 AM

Anyone have a link to Lastings' vital stats? (Full name, date and place of birth, height, weight, etc.)

Johnny Dickshot May 30 2006 11:42 AM

Edgy DC May 30 2006 11:42 AM

Twisting your abdomen is a big part of the hitting motion. A recently closed wound there is tough to contend with while swinging. Even Roy Hobbs would tell you.

Elster88 May 30 2006 11:44 AM

That's exciting. Victor Diaz = forgotten man.

metirish May 30 2006 11:45 AM

Nothing new here but..... ] BY JON HEYMAN Newsday Staff Writer May 30, 2006, 1:32 PM EDT Mets prospect Lastings Milledge has been promoted and will make his Major League debut tonight, the team announced this afternoon. Milledge, a rare combination of speed and power who's considered the team's top prospect, takes the place of rightfielder Xavier Nady, who had an appendectomy after Monday's game against the Diamondbacks. Nady, who's also suffered from back spasm recently, is being placed on the 15-day disabled list. Milledge will play in his place. The Mets have said they wouldn't call him up to sit him on the bench. Milledge, 21, was batting .291 with four homers and 19 RBI at Triple-A Norfolk. He had four home runs and 19 RBIs in 182 at-bats. He also stole eight bases. Milledge was the Mets' No. 1 pick in the 2003 amateur draft.

Benjamin Grimm May 30 2006 11:46 AM

But how does it feel three or four weeks later? Hopefully Nady won't be out for too long. I have to wonder, though, if Lastings thrives and Cliff struggles over the next four weeks, what happens when Nady returns? And yes, I know I'm putting the cart before the horse. That's just one of many possible scenarios, and probably not the most likely one.

KC May 30 2006 11:46 AM

Yance, for starters ... 04/05/85 6' 0" 187 lbs

Centerfield May 30 2006 11:48 AM

I feel like I'm in some twilight zone here. I'm eager to see what Milledge will bring to the table as well, and I am happy the kid is making his major league debut, but I don't see how you guys can be happy when we just lost our 3rd leading HR hitter for an indefinite period of time.

Elster88 May 30 2006 11:49 AM

Bernie was out for three weeks. I think we'll be able to survive without Nady for a month or so, but if someone else gets hurt our offense will probably see a dramatic decline.

Johnny Dickshot May 30 2006 11:50 AM

I think it suxx that Nady is hurt -- the whole turn of events is shocking.

Benjamin Grimm May 30 2006 11:52 AM

1985????? Holy crap, I feel old. Thanks for the info, though. Looks like he was born in Bradenton, Florida

Edgy DC May 30 2006 11:53 AM

Bat him second or sixth or seventh? I'm thinking they won't want to move Lo Duca while he's hitting well, and they'd like to debut him in a low-pressure kid-glovesy manner, but second has his name all over it.

Benjamin Grimm May 30 2006 11:54 AM

Centerfield wrote: I don't see how you guys can be happy when we just lost our 3rd leading HR hitter for an indefinite period of time. I'm not happy; I hope Nady returns soon. I'm intrigued to see what Milledge does, though. And I hope the Mets have four healthy productive big league outfielders by this time next month.

Elster88 May 30 2006 11:54 AM

I dunno. Why not bat him eighth? He hasn't been hitting all THAT well in AAA.

Benjamin Grimm May 30 2006 11:55 AM

Uniform number? Is 6 available? I'd like to see him in a single digit.

Elster88 May 30 2006 11:57 AM

I'm not sure about coaches, but other than 4, 5, and 7, I think all the single digits are available.

sharpie May 30 2006 12:00 PM

Anderson Hernandez has No. 1 Sandy Alomar, Jr. is No. 2 6 does sound right.

seawolf17 May 30 2006 12:00 PM

Manny Acta wears 3, I believe. 6'd be good. No 1 (too Mookie), no 9 (too Jefferies).

Elster88 May 30 2006 12:00 PM

No one really has one then, no?

soupcan May 30 2006 12:00 PM

Yancy Street Gang wrote: Uniform number? Is 6 available? I'd like to see him in a single digit. I'm with Yancy on this. Wright - 5 Milledge - 6 Reyes - 7 That would be cool.

Elster88 May 30 2006 12:01 PM

seawolf17 wrote: No 1 (too Mookie), no 9 (too Jefferies). LOL....good points.

Elster88 May 30 2006 12:01 PM

soupcan wrote: Wright - 5 Milledge - 6 Reyes - 7 That would be cool. Another good point! The CPFers get the numbers done.

Frayed Knot May 30 2006 12:02 PM

Edgy DC wrote: Bat him second or sixth or seventh? I'm thinking they won't want to move Lo Duca while he's hitting well, and they'd like to debut him in a low-pressure kid-glovesy manner, but second has his name all over it. I'd be shocked if they put him anywhere but Nady's regular spot - or maybe even a slot lower. And it's not that I look at this whole deal as a good thing, but it is good that Lastings can come up at a time where he's: a) not expected to be any kind of "savior" or sole focus of attention b) can easily be sent back if/when he struggles as soon as Nady is ready to go And if he's not struggling ... well we'll deal with that when we come to it.

Hillbilly May 30 2006 12:07 PM

="Frayed Knot"] I'd be shocked if they put him anywhere but Nady's slot. And it's not that I look at this whole deal as a good thing, but it is good that Lastings can come up and hit in a slot where he's: a) not expected to be any kind of "savior" or sole focus of attention b) can easily be sent back if/when he struggles as soon as Nady is ready to go. I agree exactly. ="Frayed Knot"] And if he's not struggling ... well we'll deal with that when we come to it. In other words, if he's ready for the show, out of this misfortune an improvement to the team may result.

Farmer Ted May 30 2006 12:08 PM

Is Endy Chavez not playing well?? PLAY ENDY NOW!!

Johnny Dickshot May 30 2006 12:08 PM

Six would be cool. You of course know that 6 has long been the most frequently worn jersey in Met history, issued 31 times often for no good reason. This would provide an excellent opportunity for advancement from 34 and 17, which are tied for 2nd place with 29 issues apiece and recently made available again. In fact, I see 17 as a possibility for Milledge., but I like the suggestion of 6.

seawolf17 May 30 2006 12:11 PM

Dammit man! 17 is Keith Frigging Hernandez! I'm tired of seeing LIMA 17 and MAYNE 17 and all that crap.

MFS62 May 30 2006 12:21 PM

="Elster88"]I dunno. Why not bat him eighth? He hasn't been hitting all THAT well in AAA. That BA is deceiving. After a hot start he fell down to the .270's, but since that time he has been en fuego. He has recently had several two-hit games and a three-hit game to bring his average up to near .300. And he has been leading off at Norfolk, with a very good OBP(.425). Later

old original jb May 30 2006 12:25 PM

I'm wondering if it's really an appendectomy. Most people with acute appendicitis would not be able to play in a baseball game a few hours before discovering that they need surgery. If it is truly an "emergency appendectomy" you are doubled over in pain prior to the surgery. He was hit by a pitch last night--I think on the left side. This makes me wonder if he didn't lacerate his spleen. Still, strange things can happen. In any case, he will be out for 6-8 weeks unless he is a candidate for laparoscopic surgery--more likely if the issue really is the appendix.

Hillbilly May 30 2006 12:27 PM

It was unrelated to the pitch. After he was hit the trainers were checking him out and Nady goes BTW I've been having some pain here..

Frayed Knot May 30 2006 12:29 PM

Supposedly while they were checking him out after last night's HBP Nady fessed up to being bothered by some abdominal pain for a few days now. Maybe "emergency" is being used a bit too liberally in this case.

Rotblatt May 30 2006 12:29 PM

Holy crap. I like the move. Frankly, this is a pretty good time to call him up. We're in first place; our rotation, which had been a problem, has a semblance of normalcy about it now; Floyd's out of his slump (knock on wood). Furthermore, Milledge appears to have just knocked himself out of his first mini-slump of 2006 and is swinging the bat pretty well. He's 5 for his last 11 AB, with 3 2B. In other words, I don't think there's an undue amount of pressure on Milledge here. He just needs to go out there and do his thing--we don't need a saviour. All that being said, the cynical side of me wonders if this means we're shopping him. If he gets off to a hot start, we'll be innundated with offers.

old original jb May 30 2006 12:30 PM

Hillbilly wrote: It was unrelated to the pitch. After he was hit the trainers were checking him out and Nady goes BTW I've been having some pain here.. Wow. That's actually very good news. If it is "BTW" type pain, chances are it was not an "emergency" appendectomy and that they caught things pretty early, meaning no rupture, minimal chance of peritonitis, few complications, and that the procedure would be laparoscopic with a shorter recovery time.

RealityChuck May 30 2006 12:36 PM

SNY just had the announcement; it took a bit of time to get the details on the web page. That's why the links there didn't show much. The article is up now.

Centerfield May 30 2006 12:39 PM

]Xavier should be able to resume baseball activities in 7-10 days. That is encouraging. Good luck to Nady and Milledge.

Benjamin Grimm May 30 2006 12:42 PM

Rotblatt wrote: All that being said, the cynical side of me wonders if this means we're shopping him. If he gets off to a hot start, we'll be innundated with offers. I doubt it. If they wanted to trade Milledge, I think there's already enough demand for him. Bringing him up you risk him hitting .120 and reducing his trade value.

Edgy DC May 30 2006 12:43 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on May 30 2006 01:07 PM

Six is so Darryl Boston. So Roy White. It says utility outfielder to me. If Milledge gets it, he's responsible for re-writing the meaning in my head, Naddiest and craziest thing Charlie Samuels could do would be to un-unofficially retire 24.

sharpie May 30 2006 12:51 PM

Six says Stan Musial to me.

Benjamin Grimm May 30 2006 12:55 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jun 09 2006 05:25 PM

Not much on this page yet. Let's hope he fills it up with a lot of great numbers: Lastings Milledge Still need a middle name. (What middle name would you give to someone whose first name is Lastings? My head is spinning!)

sharpie May 30 2006 12:56 PM

I now see that Jeff Keppinger currently has 6. 9 is gaining traction. We can erase the Jefferies vibe and get with the Ted Williams mojo.

MFS62 May 30 2006 12:57 PM

So, who goes from the 40 man roster? I don't think putting somebody on the 15 day DL opens up a space like putting someone on the 60 day does. Later

soupcan May 30 2006 01:02 PM

Edgy DC wrote: Six is so Darryl Boston. So Roy White. It says utility outfielder to me. If Milledge gets it, he's responible for re-writing the meaning in my head, Naddiest and craziest thing Charlie Samuels could do would be to un-unofficially retire 24. Dude, 6 = Wally Backman.

Edgy DC May 30 2006 01:13 PM

Don't tell me. I wore six in honor of Wally Backman. I... I... object! On an outfielder, it has a different mojo. YSG, here's a placeholder for you:

Edgy DC May 30 2006 01:16 PM

i'm thinking Chris Woodward should cough up four and let Milledge shake the Boisclair out of it. Would Ventura fans mind? By the way, there's room on the roster.

Willets Point May 30 2006 01:26 PM

MFS62 May 30 2006 01:40 PM

According to WFAN, Lastings will start and bat eighth. Of course, that's where you stick a kid with great speed and a .425 OBP at AAA. SC= way up there. Later

OlerudOwned May 30 2006 01:47 PM

Wow, I didn't even click on this at first because I thought it was one of the "Call Up Milledge...NOW!!!!" threads. I hope Nady's okay, but this is going to get interesting.

Edgy DC May 30 2006 01:48 PM

His on-base percentage at this level is .000.

MFS62 May 30 2006 01:51 PM

Edgy DC wrote: His on-base percentage at this level is .000. Valid point.

metirish May 30 2006 02:00 PM

I just phoned the Mets and Sarah told me she has no idea what # Milledge will be wearing as that info has not being given out yet....

Edgy DC May 30 2006 02:01 PM

Sarah is a liar.

Willets Point May 30 2006 02:02 PM

metirish wrote: I just phoned the Mets and Sarah told me she has no idea what # Milledge will be wearing as that info has not being given out yet.... Sarah, who is of course Mr. Met's wife.

metirish May 30 2006 02:06 PM

Guys I really pressed her on it, told her that we really needed this info, she swore she didn't know...I think she was telling the truth, I then asked her for Jay Horwitz's #, she hung up.

Benjamin Grimm May 30 2006 02:09 PM

I heard that they're going to pixelate his uniform number on tonight's telecast, so that viewers won't be able to tell what number he's wearing.

sharpie May 30 2006 02:13 PM

All hail the Super-Size Super-Sacred Seaver Post! Mets website has his spring training number of 65 listed.

seawolf17 May 30 2006 02:13 PM

AAAAAAAAAA! HAIL!

soupcan May 30 2006 02:14 PM

HAIL!

metirish May 30 2006 02:15 PM

Hail Seaver..

Nymr83 May 30 2006 02:58 PM

yeah baby!!!!!!!!!!! it milledge time!!!

Zvon May 30 2006 03:04 PM

Hail Seaver ! Well, this is a shocking bit-O-news. Especially the type of "injury" Nady has suffered. ]CBS SportsLine.com wire reports The Mets said Nady, who missed two games last week because of a sore lower back, should be able to resume baseball activities within 10 days. He is hitting .267 with nine homers and 22 RBI in his first season with New York. 10 days sounds kinda optimistic, afaic. Its gonna be exciting to see Milledge in action, even if its only for a limited engagement.

Gwreck May 30 2006 03:17 PM

Frayed Knot wrote: Supposedly while they were checking him out after last night's HBP Nady fessed up to being bothered by some abdominal pain for a few days now. Maybe "emergency" is being used a bit too liberally in this case. I think that just about all appendectomys are "emergency" becuase the goal is to get them removed before they burst, which causes a whole new set of problems and greatly increases the mortality rate of what's otherwise fairly treatable.

Gwreck May 30 2006 03:25 PM

Lastings is wearing number 44.

Johnny Dickshot May 30 2006 03:30 PM

44 is pretty daunting for a young outfielder: Jay Payton & Ryan Thompson never lived up to it.

sharpie May 30 2006 03:32 PM

Number is reserved for African American outfielders only.

Hillbilly May 30 2006 03:43 PM

Here's hoping that he's the new standard for # 44!

Willets Point May 30 2006 04:18 PM

And that he hits like a 44:

Edgy DC May 30 2006 04:33 PM

This is also the third anniversary of David Cone's retirement.

seawolf17 May 30 2006 04:54 PM

I... must kill... the Queen.

Benjamin Grimm May 30 2006 06:33 PM

Darnell. His middle name is Darnell.

Willets Point May 30 2006 06:42 PM

All three names are two syllables.

Willets Point May 30 2006 07:02 PM

First baseball thread on the new Crane Pool Forum, post EZBoard crash

Willets Point May 30 2006 07:07 PM

More Milledge

soupcan May 31 2006 07:09 AM

sharpie wrote: Number is reserved for African American outfielders only. 1991 New York Mets Number worn: 20, 44 Name: Howard Johnson

Benjamin Grimm May 31 2006 07:16 AM

I remember David Cone wearing 44, but I don't recall HoJo at all in that number.

Frayed Knot May 31 2006 07:19 AM

Well he was until all the black players on the team beat him up for keeping the black man down by stealing their #44. Or something like that ... I may have a few facts wrong.

Johnny Dickshot May 31 2006 07:21 AM

Hojo was slumping and thought a number change would bring better power. His wife urged him to change it back, and he did, after about 10 or 11 days.

soupcan May 31 2006 07:23 AM

I remember him wearing it for a series in San Francisco but as JD said it didn't last long. Why no mention of it on the website JD?

Edgy DC May 31 2006 07:30 AM

I really hijacked that second Milledge thread and turned it into a Duncan threat, didn't I? The cool thing is that the one knock on Millege going into the draft is that he seemed to crap out at a wood-bat workout, leading to the expectation that the Mets would have to be patient while he adjusted to the all-wood pros. He struggled for a month and then...KABOOM! I have plenty of that kind of patience.

Johnny Dickshot May 31 2006 07:32 AM

]Henry Aaron popularlized 44 as a number reserved for sluggers, and for five games in May of 1991, that's what Howard Johnson tried to snap out of a slump (he switched back to 20 after admitting he felt "uncomfortable" and that his wife disapproved). But on the whole, Mets' 44s have not struck fear in the hearts of their opponents, at least not as longball threats. edit -- hey, I'm missing a verb!

Johnny Dickshot May 31 2006 07:40 AM

The whole story (Newsday, May 11, 1991) ]Marty Noble San Francisco Following the lead of David Cone, Howard Johnson has changed his uniform number - from 20, the number he has worn throughout his six-plus years with the Mets, to 44, the number Cone wore before changing to 17 Wednesday night. "I've always liked the number," Johnson said. "A lot of great players have worn it - Reggie, Aaron, McCovey." Johnson said he wanted to make the change in 1987 before Cone joined the team, but his wife preferred that he keep 20. Cone said he told Keith Hernandez, the former No. 17, he would return 17 to him if he came back to the club in some capacity or if the number was retired. "I thought I could go back to 44. I didn't know somebody was going to jump on it so fast."

soupcan May 31 2006 07:47 AM

See, my wife will tell you that's just typical of me. Did I totally miss it or did you just add it?

Johnny Dickshot May 31 2006 07:55 AM

No, it was there above the photo. Further info: Johnson was hitting 222/295/482 when he made the switch: Over the 5 games he wore 44 he was 5-17 (294) with 2 HRs a double and 4 RBI. When he switched back to 20 he was 235/325/541

Edgy DC May 31 2006 08:15 AM

Yikes, should have stuck with the double quarts. Highest Yielding Mets 44s, per Our Rankings 1) David Cone 2) Mike Cameron 3) Ryan Thompson 4) Jay Payton 5) Ron Darling 6) Jason Isringhausen 7) Tim Burke 8) Andy Hassler 9) Tom Paciorek 10) Ray Searage One may well question Thompson over Payton. I guess that's what staying healthy will do for you. Alex Escobar probably should have been a 44.

Johnny Dickshot May 31 2006 08:23 AM

By actual service time, Payton prolly outpoints Thompson, since Thompson spent ~40% of his Met tenure in 44 and the rest in No. 20. RT couldn't hack the pressure of 44.

Edgy DC May 31 2006 08:27 AM

Ooooh, you're flipping right. Highest Yielding Mets 44s, per Our Rankings 1) David Cone 2) Mike Cameron 3) Jay Payton 4) Ron Darling 5) Ryan Thompson 6) Jason Isringhausen 7) Tim Burke 8) Andy Hassler 9) Tom Paciorek 10) Ray Searage Bobby "Oh My" Myrick and Bob "I Do the" Rauch keep demanding a re-count. They claim Paciorek was coat-tail rider.

Benjamin Grimm May 31 2006 08:38 AM

Milledge is the 18th new Met to debut this year. And it's still only May. There's a chance that we'll see Met number 800 some time this season. (Lastings is number 789.)

TheOldMole May 31 2006 01:44 PM

The other 17?

Vic Sage May 31 2006 02:01 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on May 31 2006 02:05 PM

18 New Mets: LoDuca Delgado Franco Valentin Nady Milledge E.Chavez SP: J.Gonzalez Bannister Maine El Duque Soler Lima RP: D.Oliver J.Julio Bradford D.Sanchez Wagner

Frayed Knot May 31 2006 02:01 PM

D'oh!

TheOldMole May 31 2006 02:05 PM

Vic - thanx.

Edgy DC May 31 2006 05:54 PM

Is he chewing? Who comes up chewing anymore?

Nymr83 May 31 2006 06:00 PM

Yancy Street Gang wrote: There's a chance that we'll see Met number 800 some time this season. (Lastings is number 789.) i'd bet we'll see 11 more...2 or 3 more guys who start agame or three and never again (lima), 4 or 5 relievers, and whatever september callups we get. the hitting is pretty much set barring an injury i wouldnt expect a callup

Edgy DC May 31 2006 08:38 PM

Mr. Cross-Bearin'-Tobacco-Chewin-Fly-Droppin'-Parent-Heartbreakin'-Braid-Wearin'-Rookie starting in center tomorrow?

ScarletKnight41 May 31 2006 08:39 PM

Impossible. Tomorrow's an off day.

Edgy DC May 31 2006 08:58 PM

Oh, well, good point.

Frayed Knot May 31 2006 09:33 PM

If Beltran can't go Friday (diagnosed as bruise for now) they've almost certainly gotta use Chavez anyway so shirley it'll be him in CF leaving the kid in RF.

Elster88 Jun 04 2006 01:33 PM

nymets.com wrote: "The best thing that happened is that I got drilled by Luis Vizcaino," Nady said. The pitch from Vizcaino struck him in the left side. When the doctor examined the area, Nady said, "Take a look over here, too." Some probing resulted in a trip to the hospital, a drink of dye, a scan and ultimately that surgery that put a temporary halt to physical activity for the 27-year-old right fielder. Wow.

Zvon Jun 04 2006 06:19 PM

]CBS SportsLine.com wire reports NEW YORK -- Lastings Milledge was high-fiving fans along the right-field railing, the same way Cal Ripken did 11 years ago on his "victory lap" in Baltimore after breaking Lou Gehrig's record for consecutive games played. Ahh, the exuberance of youth. Turns out, the celebration was premature -- and it irked a few folks in both dugouts. Pedro Feliz hit an RBI single in the 12th inning and the San Francisco Giants finally held off the Mets 7-6 Sunday, overcoming a breakout performance by New York's prized prospect. With the Mets down to their final strike in the 10th, Milledge hit his first career homer off All-Star closer Armando Benitez to tie it at 6-all. The 21-year-old rookie raised his index finger toward the sky as he rounded first and came out for a curtain call. Then, as he jogged out to right field for the 11th, he slapped hands with dozens of fans leaning over the railing. "We weren't too happy about that. But he's a young kid," Giants reliever Steve Kline said. "I don't know if he's going to be slapping five with everybody after he goes 0-for-15 and the New York fans are booing him. But in the heat of the moment, you can't blame the kid. He knows better. I think he genuinely knows he did wrong." The Mets also took notice. "Oh, boy. He has a little growing up to do," outfielder Cliff Floyd said. "I'll just mention to him the consequences that come along with that. If that's what you want to do, you do that. But at the same time, if you want guys throwing at your head constantly, you proceed to do it that way. "He has the talent and everything, but you have to understand the game at this level. At Triple-A they're going to treat you like a king, and what's wrong with that? When you come here, without losing your mojo, you've got to bring the mentality down. If you can do that, you'll earn the respect of a lot of people." Milledge heard it from his manager, too. "I had a little conversation with him about that. I told him to tone it down a little bit," Willie Randolph said. "He got excited about his first big home run. Wouldn't you? I talked to him about it -- it won't happen again." Milledge also hit a go-ahead double and made a sliding catch in right field in his fifth major league game, quickly winning over New York fans who have been reading about the gifted youngster for a while now. "Now I know what's expected. It was a rookie mistake. We learn from it," Milledge said. "I was just excited to get the team back. If it was just a solo homer that meant nothing for the team, I wouldn't have been that excited." Milledge's two-out double on an 0-2 hanger from starter Matt Morris put the Mets up 3-1 in the sixth. The two RBI were the first in the majors for Milledge, called up from the minors Tuesday after right fielder Xavier Nady had an appendectomy. "It was pretty disappointing because we should have won the game. We let it slip away all day," Milledge said. "It wasn't as though we beat ourselves, they just beat us."

Zvon Jun 04 2006 06:33 PM

I didnt see this until I was watching ESPNs Baseball Tonight, although I did read about it in the IGT. It is kinda bush. But I gotta chuckle, cuz the kid does have brass ones. I hope he ends up being as good as he thinks he is, on the MLB level.

A Boy Named Seo Jun 04 2006 07:36 PM

I thought his enthusiasm was fun and funny, but don't know why anyone would get upset by it. Why is slappin' fives with the fans in right any more offensive to the other team than if he would have taken a curtain call?

Edgy DC Jun 04 2006 07:44 PM

Because, competitive men are looking for a reason to take offense. Therefore, be Japanese, and honor your opponent even as you destroy him. A curtain call can be written off as not showing the opponent up, but reluctantly meeting the fans' demand, so long as go out humbly with your head sort of slack and raise your arm as if it weights 200 pounds, to briefly acknowledge them.

Frayed Knot Jun 04 2006 07:49 PM

I was surprised and a bit disturbed by the display. On the other hand, for a first ML HR in a game-tying/2-out/2-strike situation it can be written off as youthful exuberence w/o getting too bad of a rep. Shouldn't happen again though and it sounds like he might know that now.

Nymr83 Jun 04 2006 07:57 PM

fuck this "it shouldnt happen" crap. the game is for the FANS, i bet the FANS who were there today loved it. some little kid on the first base line had his day made by a major leaguer giving him a high five...but oh lets not offend the fragile ego of the guys who gave it up..

A Boy Named Seo Jun 04 2006 08:03 PM

]I was surprised and a bit disturbed by the display. I was surprised, too, but in a good way. Why were you disturbed? If the guns in the picture above were pointed at the Giants dugout or the pitcher or something, I could understand peeps feathers getting ruffled. But a player exchaning fives with the fans between innings after a huge play, I think is rare and exciting and makes for a fun time at the park for the crowd. It's geniune fan interaction and I think it breaks down the somewhat impersonal barrier you see between fan and player nowadays. I don't remember seeing a player do that before, but it feels kinda old school like the high socks.

Frayed Knot Jun 04 2006 08:08 PM

It shouldn't happen regularly because the game is still going on at that point and it's an act that reeks of an athlete celebrating himself.

Nymr83 Jun 04 2006 08:19 PM

it didnt interrupt the game going on though... if it had caused the inning to be delayed or anything i'd agree that it was 100% inappropriate

Johnny Dickshot Jun 04 2006 08:58 PM

It's showing up the opponent. It's not sportsmanlike or professional.

Elster88 Jun 04 2006 09:42 PM

Nymr83 wrote: fuck this "it shouldnt happen" crap. the game is for the FANS, i bet the FANS who were there today loved it. some little kid on the first base line had his day made by a major leaguer giving him a high five...but oh lets not offend the fragile ego of the guys who gave it up.. Please. You would have been pissed if it Barry Bonds had done that at Pac Bell after tying the game off Wagner. Just like any other Met fan would've.

SI Metman Jun 04 2006 10:04 PM

If this were the 60's, Bob Gibson would have planted one right between his eyes on the next day. Yes, Milledge was out of line, and Mets fans wouldn't be thrilled if it were Francoeurr doing it in Atlanta during a Mets-Braves game. Lets see how they like it later this month when we face Manny and Papi.

Nymr83 Jun 04 2006 11:16 PM

]Please. You would have been pissed if it Barry Bonds had done that at Pac Bell after tying the game off Wagner. Just like any other Met fan would've. if pedro feliz had done this at pac-bell i wouldnt give a fuck. i hate bonds and everything he does anyway.

seawolf17 Jun 05 2006 04:56 AM

I enjoyed it; I agree completely with nymr.

MFS62 Jun 05 2006 05:20 AM

It was a once in a lifetime experience for the kid - his first major league homer. Let him celebrate a little if it doesn't effect the flow of the game. Willie told him that kind of behavior shouldn't be a regular thing. I wonder if he would have told Willie Mays not to play stickball with the neighborhood kids outside the Polo Grounds? Is baseball the sport that considers itself to be FAN-tastic? (I forgot) Well those young fans with whom he exchanged high fives will never forget that moment. Baseball is losing its popularity to football. In Green Bay players dive into the stands after a touchdown. Maybe if more baseball players gave high fives some of those young fans would come back. Later

Johnny Dickshot Jun 05 2006 05:22 AM

Nymr83 wrote: ]Please. You would have been pissed if it Barry Bonds had done that at Pac Bell after tying the game off Wagner. Just like any other Met fan would've. if pedro feliz had done this at pac-bell i wouldnt give a fuck. i hate bonds and everything he does anyway. But had Pedro Feliz had done it at Pac Bell, the Mets would have been mad, and justifiably so. It's not professional to behave in a way that would be interpreted as showing up the opponent. How hard is that to understand? Sportsmanship. Didn't your gym teacher or little league coach go over this with you when you were 7? Were you too busy booing?

Elster88 Jun 05 2006 06:39 AM

MFS62 wrote: Willie told him that kind of behavior shouldn't be a regular thing. I wonder if he would have told Willie Mays not to play stickball with the neighborhood kids outside the Polo Grounds? I don't think it makes sense to compare Willie playing with the kids outside the park to what Milledge did.

Edgy DC Jun 05 2006 06:53 AM

An important part of this is, SportsCenter being what it is, that even though the Mets are done with the Giants (until October, anyway), there's a lot of other players in the league who saw this premature display in a game the Mets --- HA! --- lost. They all have one less reason to care, if they're down by six and twelve games out in September, if a few of their pitches get away from them against the Mets.

Johnny Dickshot Jun 05 2006 06:56 AM

MFS62 wrote: It was a once in a lifetime experience for the kid - his first major league homer. Let him celebrate a little if it doesn't effect the flow of the game. Willie told him that kind of behavior shouldn't be a regular thing. I wonder if he would have told Willie Mays not to play stickball with the neighborhood kids outside the Polo Grounds? Is baseball the sport that considers itself to be FAN-tastic? (I forgot) Well those young fans with whom he exchanged high fives will never forget that moment. Baseball is losing its popularity to football. In Green Bay players dive into the stands after a touchdown. Maybe if more baseball players gave high fives some of those young fans would come back. Later Don't think you have that any wronger. End-zone celebrations in football are a complete FU to sportsmanship and counter to Paterno's admonition that his guys "act like they've been there before." Green Bay would sell out their stadium every week if Brett Farve took a dump in the end zone and flinged it all over the first three rows. Showboating after touchdowns has nothing to do with the sport's popularity. And fans at Shea would be just as pleased had Milledge politely tipped his cap on his way out, as a professional would. And a guy's behavior in the middle of game has absolutely zero to do with what Willie Mays did after a game. The fair comparison would be to ask how'd the Say hey Kid react after a big home run? Did he rub it in the opposing pitcher's/fans face with antics, or did he just go about his business and act like he's done it before?

MFS62 Jun 05 2006 07:07 AM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jun 05 2006 07:10 AM

He didn't rub it in anybody's face. He didn't stand there and admire his home run, then fling his bat and do a showboat trot. He didn't point at the pitcher. He didn't do a lot of things that might be considered showboating/ insulting to the other team or one of its players. He demonstrated some boyish enthusiasm by returning the love the fans in right field were showering on him. BTW- both Mikes on ESPN radio agreed with me this morning, and even used the Green Bay dive analogy. They said it was different from a football player taunting another player by standing over him and/or pointing. They went on to say that baseball has too many "unwritten rules" and this was an example of how silly some of them are. They drew the anaolgy with Sammy Sosa leading cheers by fans in the right field stands in Wrigley when he went out to take his position between innings. The intent was to get the fans into the game, not to show up the other team. This was between innings, not a game interrupting thing. I tend to be a baseball purist about many things. But this isn't one of them. It was a one time demonstration of youthful exuberance. That's all. The kid had just hit his first major league home run. Cut him some slack and let him enjoy it. Later

Elster88 Jun 05 2006 07:07 AM

Running down the aisle high-fiving the fans is huge in the WWF, too. As much as PiazzaFan might like that, I think baseball and WWF should have as few similarities as possible.

Elster88 Jun 05 2006 07:11 AM

I want to point out that I don't think it's a big deal for Milledge. He was already apologetic after the game, Willie and some of the veterans are going to talk to him, and even the Giants seemed to chalk it up to youthful enthusiasm. I am arguing against the mentality that what he did is okay.

Elster88 Jun 05 2006 07:12 AM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jun 05 2006 07:15 AM

]He didn't rub it in anybody's face. He didn't stand there and admire his home run, then fling his bat and do a showboat trot. He didn't point at the pitcher. He didn't do a lot of things that might be considered showboating/ insulting to the other team or one of its players. He demonstrated some boyish enthusiasm by returning the love the fans in right field were showering on him. I don't understand why people think that high-fiving the crowd is different from all the other things that 62 mentions. I'll put the question to you that I posed to Nymr. If Bonds had done what Milledge did after the homer off Wagner, how would you have felt? How do you think Wagner would have felt? Nymr avoided the question entirely by saying it was okay for guys like Feliz and Milledge, but not for Bonds. IMHO, introducing a double standard answers the question. ="MFS62"]BTW- both Mikes on ESPN radio agreed with me this morning Having those two agree with me would make me rethink my position. I'm glad they're taking the view that opposes mine.

metirish Jun 05 2006 07:13 AM

Bill Madden was not impressed... [url=http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/mets/story/423746p-357609c.html]MFY Fan Not Happy[/url] Check out Filepe Alou's quote..

Johnny Dickshot Jun 05 2006 07:15 AM

]He didn't do a lot of things that might be considered showboating/ insulting to the other team or one of its players. How hard is it to understand sportsmanship? His manager and teammates were basically apologizing for his behavior. If Mike & Mike say that football's popular because wide receivers celebrate touchdowns, they're idiots.

seawolf17 Jun 05 2006 07:18 AM

In the NBA, I've seen players high-fiving fans courtside after big dunks. You have the whole Lambeau Leap phenomenon. It didn't impede the game, he didn't show up anyone. I don't see a double standard; he's heading that way anyway out to right field, let him recognize the fans and let them recognize him. No different than if he'd tipped his cap and/or waved.

seawolf17 Jun 05 2006 07:20 AM

Edgy DC wrote: An important part of this is, SportsCenter being what it is, that even though the Mets are done with the Giants (until October, anyway), there's a lot of other players in the league who saw this premature display in a game the Mets --- HA! --- lost. They all have one less reason to care, if they're down by six and twelve games out in September, if a few of their pitches get away from them against the Mets. Fine; then let them get away. I'm not saying the kid doesn't need a slice of humble pie; it's somewhat obvious that he's flashy. But you know, those '86 Mets were awfully cocky too. And we know how that turned out.

metirish Jun 05 2006 07:21 AM

The main thing for me is that he won't do it again, it shouldn't be a big deal then.

Edgy DC Jun 05 2006 07:24 AM Edited 3 time(s), most recently on Jun 05 2006 07:27 AM

]But you know, those '86 Mets were awfully cocky too. And we know how that turned out. Yeah, with one championship, everybody in the league wanting to kill them, and their two best players sliding down the social scale from Met to Yankee to convict.. And even they knew there were standards. This'll seem really cool until Carlos Delgado is decked by some Gorgon from the Washington bullpen. I agree that it's not that big a big deal in and of itself.

Elster88 Jun 05 2006 07:25 AM

seawolf17 wrote: But you know, those '86 Mets were awfully cocky too. And we know how that turned out. That turned out pretty terrible. Every non-Met fan hates that team. Darryl and Doc both went to rehab and jail, at least partly because they were taught to think they were the shit, to not listen to any veterans, and to think they could do whatever they wanted. And the team only one won f'ing championship. Cockiness is not really a good thing. Edit: Edgy beat me to it.

Johnny Dickshot Jun 05 2006 07:27 AM

]No different than if he'd tipped his cap and/or waved. Bullshit. That distinction is exactly what this discussion is about.

MFS62 Jun 05 2006 07:39 AM

]If Bonds had done what Milledge did after the homer off Wagner, how would you have felt? How do you think Wagner would have felt? If that had happened, I would have felt bad, not because of what he did, but because it tied a game my team looked like they were winning. But I would have been madder at that than what he did afterwards. He would be acknowledging the cheers of his fans, and I have no problem with that. I never took Sosa leading cheers between innings to get his fans into the game as insulting to anyone. What about when players on the bench start waving towels to get the fans going? If another team or their fans took it that way, then they either don't understand the distiction between cheerleading and showing up the other team, or are very paranoid. Later

HahnSolo Jun 05 2006 08:17 AM

So Steve Kline wants to lecture us about what players should and should not do? Isn't this the bum who once flipped the bird at his own manager from the bullpen when he didn't get the call?

metirish Jun 05 2006 08:22 AM

Good memory HahnSolo, a quick Google search and I found it, this article on flipping the bird.... ] ■ 2005: Washington State coach Dick Bennett flips the finger at Washington fans mocking his team for their slowdown tactics. “I made a mistake,” Bennett says. ■ 2003: Chicago White Sox relief pitcher Jose Paniagua makes the sign. He’s released. ■ 2002: Jason Kidd middle-fingers a fan. A report comes out that he middle-fingers “fans” — plural — and he clarifies. “It wasn’t directed toward all the fans,” he says. “Somebody had said something as I left the court. The gesture was for that individual.” ■ 2004: St. Louis pitcher Steve Kline offers the middle finger to his manager, Tony La Russa, for having him warm up and not pitch. ■ 1976: Houston Oilers coach Bum Phillips gives fans the one-finger gesture after his team beats the Saints in New Orleans: “I might have pointed out that we were still No. 1,” Bum says. ■ 2005: Cincinnati Reds reliever Danny Graves offers up a double middle finger to Reds fans after they deluge him with boos. He is traded to the Mets shortly afterward. ■ 1996: Los Angeles City Councilwoman Sandi Webb raises the middle finger to U.S. Sen. Dianne Feinstein after, according to the Los Angeles Daily News, “losing her temper over the senator’s gun-control stance.” I realize this isn’t sports, but it seems one of the rare moments when the right to bear arms has led to a shooting the bird. http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/sports/13432682.htm

Elster88 Jun 05 2006 08:37 AM

HahnSolo wrote: So Steve Kline wants to lecture us about what players should and should not do? Isn't this the bum who once flipped the bird at his own manager from the bullpen when he didn't get the call? So ignore Steve Kline because he gave LaRussa the bird. Cliff Floyd and Willie Randolph also said it shouldn't be done. Are you going to ignore their opinion because Steve Kline once gave LaRussa the finger? Seriously, what's your opinion on the issue, Steve Kline's antics aside?

Vic Sage Jun 05 2006 10:06 AM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jun 05 2006 10:25 AM

]I tend to be a baseball purist about many things. But this isn't one of them. It was a one time demonstration of youthful exuberance. That's all. The kid had just hit his first major league home run. Cut him some slack and let him enjoy it. i agree with '62. I watched this happen and was completely happy about it, as were the fans along the sidelines who'll remember the day they high-fived Milledge in his rookie season, after he hit the 1st of his 413 lifetime HRs. All the kid was doing was saying "thank you" to the fans as he ran out to his position between innings, excited after a once-in-a-lifetime accomplishment that also tied the game in the bottom of the 9th. His gesture had nothing at all to do with the other team or showing up anybody. As edgy said, athletes are so competitive they'll find offense here, so i don't really care what the Giants think about it. Similarly, i'm sure the old-schoolers in the Mets dugout didn't appreciate what they perceived as provocation that might rain beanballs their way, or another example of what they probably see as a too-cocky rookie who should just hang his head and carry their bags. So, frankly, i don't give a shit about what they think either. In fact, i think MORE players should say "thank you", and not be berated for it by their teammates. As a fan, I would have absolutely no problem with Bonds high-fiving his fans at PacBell on his way out to LF after a particularly notable accomplishment. If he did it after every HR, it would seem kind of lame, and eventually irritating, but for a special moment? Why not? Its between him and the fans. However, if he showboats and gets all demonstrative DURING THE INNING, flipping the bat, watching it go out, pointing at the pitcher, or saluting and waving to the fans (or doffing his cap) AS he rounds the bases, running slowly or backwards, etc., then I'd have a different view, because that DOES implicate the other team, requiring them to stand and watch him gesticulate at their expense while they're still on the field of play and trying to win. By the way, i have absolutely no use at all for the end zone dances in football, or rim-hanging, airplaning stuff after a slam dunk in basketball. Those gestures are not recognizing the fans' appreciation or saying "thank you", its saying "ain't i great" and "take THAT, M-----F---er". Even the Lambeau Leap is done right in the face of the other team, in their end zone, right after a score. If, however, a Green Bay receiver just caught his first career touchdown pass and jumped into the stands between quarters, or during a timeout, in his OWN endzone, to celebrate for a moment with the fans, i wouldn't have a problem with it. And that's what Milledge did. Now, of course, you may see this as an arbitrary distinction, but i don't think it is. Certain gestures are appreciative, other self-aggrandizing. Some are done on a players own time, in his own territory, and others are done in the face of his opponents in the middle of play. Some celebrate uniquely emotional accomplishments, others are the routine habits of a bad sport. That M&MD also approved of Milledge's gesture certainly gives me pause, but even blind pigs can find a truffle now and again.

Elster88 Jun 05 2006 10:08 AM

Vic Sage wrote: That M&MD also approved of Milledge's gesture certainly gives me pause, but even blind pigs can find a truffle now and again. Actually Mike and Mike. M&MD won't be on until 1.

seawolf17 Jun 05 2006 10:20 AM

What Vic said, much better than I could have.

Centerfield Jun 05 2006 10:26 AM

I didn't have any problem with him slapping fans high-5 on the way out. It is, as Vic said, much better than if he were to showboat around the bases or stand and admire it. What I didn't like was the way he failed to bring the runner in from 3rd in the 8th inning.

Vic Sage Jun 05 2006 10:28 AM

]Actually Mike and Mike. M&MD won't be on until 1 i heard Francesa talking about it on "Miked Up" last night, so thats why i thought it was M&MD. but i had the same thought listening to Francesa agree with me last night... i had to reconsider for a moment, but then i decided "no, just because he agrees with me on this doesn't mean i'm wrong".

Elster88 Jun 05 2006 10:29 AM

I think there are two seperate issues here. One is, was it a big deal yesterday? I don't think so either. He did it cuz he got excited and all that. Two is, should it be a regular thing? I answer this one with an emphatic no.

Vic Sage Jun 05 2006 10:34 AM

Elster88 wrote: One is, was it a big deal yesterday? I don't think so either. He did it cuz he got excited and all that. So, you don't think a guy's 1st career HR, hit in the bottom of the 9th, with 2 outs and 2 strikes, that ties up the game and sends it into extra innings, is a big deal for a rookie? Wow. You're strict. Were you my 10th grade geometry teacher?

Elster88 Jun 05 2006 10:34 AM

Should I really rephrase or are you just breaking balls?

Vic Sage Jun 05 2006 10:49 AM

the way i read your post, i thought you were saying you didn't think his accomplishment was a big deal. However, if you were just saying that you didn't think his REACTION to his accomplishment was a big deal, then i'm sorry for ball breakage.

Elster88 Jun 05 2006 10:50 AM

Yup, the second....I don't think, as a one-time thing, that it was a big deal that he high fived the crowd. No apologies necessary. Edit: Mooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooook

silverdsl Jun 05 2006 11:14 AM

I don't like when players showboat or show up the other team on a regular basis but this is a rookie enthusiastically celebrating his first homerun. A few others have mentioned the fans and how Milledge shared his excitment with them - I can't criticize him for that. I wish more players drew the fans into the game a little more. There are some players who make an effort, but there are so many who do everything they can to put as much distance between themselves and the fans as possible. Unless he makes a habit of showboating or being disruptive, I don't think he did anything so terrible. I think it's a little unfortunate that the unwritten rules and culture of the game are such that a rookie's overwhelming excitement about his first homerun can be viewed as a negative.

Johnny Dickshot Jun 05 2006 12:05 PM

My issue isn't the act so much as his, and the fans', inability to recognize it as something that could justifiably be interpreted as showboating. Agreed with whoever said his failure to get in a 1-out run from 3rd was a much bigger offense -- also to be forgiven.

Edgy DC Jun 05 2006 10:25 PM

Vin Scully is reporting that Billy Wagner made him high-five everybody aboard the Mets airplane.

Elster88 Jun 06 2006 06:58 AM

Ed Coleman reported it too. Here's a question. Who else thinks Reyes' little dance could be construed as taunting by baseball's "unwritten rules"? After Reyes' homer yesterday he did it in the dugout...so maybe then the other team wouldn't care. But when Delgado hit his, he and Delgado did it at the top step. They've been doing it all year, and I can't remember Keith remarking on it. Maybe it doesn't break baseball's unwritten taunting rules because it's at or near the dugout? From what I've heard over the years about showing up a pitcher, that silly dance would qualify as something that earns you a fastball in your ear.

Edgy DC Jun 06 2006 07:27 AM

The dugout is private space, by my estimating. Even if the camera is pointing at you, and even if you're on the top step, you're permitted to be yourself in the dugout. People pay attention to the field, 99% of the time. Another key difference is accepting the celebration once you get back to your compatriots, rather than starting it yourself when it's just you and the vanquished on the field. Carlton Fisk should write a book on baseball ettiquette. This isn't just baseball. This all goes back. A big theme in Beowulf --- though largely added later by Christian translators --- is the importance of Beowulf staying humble as he vanquishes the enemy. Wilpon here is the king, ready to say, "Now, O Beowulf (Milledge), greatest of fighters, henceforth will I love thee as a son. No wish of thine but I will grant it to thee, if it be in my power. "Full oft of yore have I for lesser deeds given great rewards. Treasure and honour have I heaped upon knights less brave than thou (Cedeño), less mighty in war. But thou by thy deeds hast made for thyself a glorious name which shall never be forgotten." Cliffy is Hrothgar, the aging warrior, who knew Beowulf's father, and reminds the young hero not to focus on the glory of battle, but rather to trust in God and to be generous and humble. And I think we even have perhaps a 1986 Met, maybe Darryl Strawberry, in Heremond. a great warrior of yore we learn of, who once acocmplished feats as great as young Beowulf, but lost his humility and went on drunken tears, even killing a drinking friend. Wow. It looks like a lot is at stake here.

Benjamin Grimm Jun 06 2006 07:37 AM

Wow. Me, I don't know Beowulf from seawolf, but I think Edgy can make some very literate banners for his next trip to Shea. I also remember Tim McCarver, during the telecast of 1986 NLCS Game 6, comparing the game to Beowulf.

Johnny Dickshot Jun 06 2006 07:42 AM

="Edgy DC"]The dugout is private space, by my estimating. Even if the camera is pointing at you, and even if you're on the top step, you're permitted to be yourself in the dugout. People pay attention to the field, 99% of the time. Another key difference is accepting the celebration once you get back to your compatriots, rather than starting it yourself when it's just you and the vanquished on the field. Carlton Fisk should write a book on baseball ettiquette. This isn't just baseball. This all goes back. A big theme in Beowulf --- though largely added later by Christian translators --- is the importance of Beowulf staying humble as he vanquishes the enemy. Wilpon here is the king, ready to say, "Now, O Beowulf (Milledge), greatest of fighters, henceforth will I love thee as a son. No wish of thine but I will grant it to thee, if it be in my power. "Full oft of yore have I for lesser deeds given great rewards. Treasure and honour have I heaped upon knights less brave than thou (Cedeño), less mighty in war. But thou by thy deeds hast made for thyself a glorious name which shall never be forgotten." Cliffy is Hrothgar, the aging warrior, who knew Beowulf's father, and reminds the young hero not to focus on the glory of battle, but rather to trust in God and to be generous and humble. And I think we even have perhaps a 1986 Met, maybe Darryl Strawberry, in Heremond. a great warrior of yore we learn of, who once acocmplished feats as great as young Beowulf, but lost his humility and went on drunken tears, even killing a drinking friend. Wow. It looks like a lot is at stake here. Bullet of cool. Have any of you played on a team where your opponent makes a show of beating you? It is one thing to lose an athletic competition on merit but little IMO is uglier than a graceless winner. Yeah, I understand Milledge didn't know, great to be fan-friendly, yyy...bbb... etc ... eh. Read edgy's post instead

seawolf17 Jun 06 2006 08:21 AM

See, the thing I don't get is how he "made a show of" anything. He didn't point at the other team, didn't hold up the game, didn't grandstand, didn't stop and sign autographs, didn't run into the stands and buy a hot dog, didn't moon the Giants' dugout. He just slapped some hands on his way out. I don't even think he slowed down in his trot out there; he just took a slight detour. Big frigging whoop.

Elster88 Jun 06 2006 08:23 AM

Agree with everything. My only nitpicking is that he did pretty much walk down the line. My guess is he would've jogged out to right otherwise.

Benjamin Grimm Jun 06 2006 08:24 AM

I don't see the big deal either. Somebody should write down all these unwritten rules.

Edgy DC Jun 06 2006 08:32 AM

Well, his trot was somewhat showy also. (Is Bobby Hill our leftfield batboy?) The point is that the extended high fives extendedly underscores his performance while the game is still tied, tense, and in extra innings. Finish the job, then do the gladhanding.

Centerfield Jun 06 2006 09:04 AM

How did Wilpon become King? I didn't vote for him.

Elster88 Jun 06 2006 09:06 AM

Since when do Kings ask for votes?

Johnny Dickshot Jun 06 2006 09:25 AM

Yancy Street Gang wrote: I don't see the big deal either. Somebody should write down all these unwritten rules. At the risk of beating this thing to death, I don't believe expecting your opponent to keep celebrations from being excessive or demonstrative during the game is an "unwritten rule" in the same sense of "don't steal while up by 10" or "don;t bunt during a no-hitter" or other dubious, strategy-driven rules are.

soupcan Jun 06 2006 09:56 AM

[url=http://faithandfear.blogharbor.com/blog]Greg's got an interesting take on it...[/url]

Edgy DC Jun 07 2006 06:04 AM

Mr. Cross-Bearin'-Tobacco-Chewin-Fly-Droppin'-Parent-Heartbreakin'-Braid-Wearin'-GM's-Son-Spikin'-High-Fivin' Rookie leading off today?

Gwreck Jun 07 2006 06:08 AM

Tough call. Assuming that both Floyd and Reyes are out again, I'd say it's 50/50, with perhaps Willie putting Chavez there. (Personally, I say yes, put him leading off).

Elster88 Jun 07 2006 12:33 PM

[url=http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=caple/offbase/060607]Caple's on Milledge-Silly[/url] By Jim Caple Page 2 "I had a little conversation with him about that. I told him to tone it down a little bit. He got excited about his first big home run. Wouldn't you? I talked to him about it -- it won't happen again." -- Mets manager Willie Randolph on rookie Lastings Milledge high-fiving fans along the right-field line when he took his position after hitting his first career home run to tie a game in extra innings Oh, if only we could have been a fly on the wall of the manager's office … -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Lastings Milledge reluctantly knocked on his manager's door and looked inside. "You wanted to see me, Skip?" "Yeah, Rook," Willie Randolph said. "Grab a seat. We need to talk." Milledge took a seat, and Randolph tossed a thick book into the rookie's lap. Milledge picked it up and leafed through it quickly. "You know what that is, Rook?" Randolph asked. "Sorry, Skip -- I don't. It's blank. There isn't a single word printed on the cover or on any page." "Those are baseball's unwritten rules. Memorize them, Rook. And I mean now. You're not in the minors anymore. You're a big leaguer. Time to start acting like one. I don't want to see any more displays like today's." Milledge closed the book. "People keep bringing that up but I don't know what I did wrong. All I did was celebrate a little." "Celebrate? Is that what you call showing up your opponents?" "How did I show anyone up? I just slapped hands with fans when I ran out to the field." "You were drawing attention to yourself. That's in direct violation of Unwritten Rule 6.08 (d). It's on page 58. Right between the rule against bunting to break up a no-hitter and the subsection on owning at least three luxury SUVs that get less than 12 miles to the gallon each." Milledge hurriedly glanced through the book again."Page 58? How do you know? There aren't even page numbers in this thing. Besides, so what if I called attention to myself? How is that any different from guys like Barry Bonds and David Ortiz stopping at home plate and pointing up to the sky after a home run? Isn't that drawing attention to yourself?" "Apples and oranges, Rook. Apples and oranges." "How? How is it different?" "It's different, Rook, because they're them and you're you. Look, let me spell it out for you. When they do it, it's OK, and when you do it, it isn't. Capiche?" "Not really. But when do I earn the right to make a gesture at home plate to honor my God or a deceased family member?" "Generally speaking, as soon as you're eligible for arbitration." Milledge stared at Randolph, expecting him to smile to show he was kidding about the whole thing. But his manager didn't smile. He was dead serious. "C'mon, Skip, be real," Milledge said. "What's the big deal? It's not as if I stopped and signed an autograph like T.O. did." A look of horror flashed across Randolph's face. "Don't go there, Rook. Don't even suggest such a thing." "Why? Does signing autographs violate another one of baseball's unwritten rules?" "No. But big leaguers never sign autographs for free. The standard appearance fee for a card show is $10,000 minimum. And that's for flat items only. They want a ball or a bat signed, they pay extra. No exceptions. Trust me, you sign a bat for one 9-year-old with cancer and pretty soon they all want it gratis." Milledge paused briefly as he thought everything over. "I still don't see what was so wrong," he said. "I had a good time, yeah, but more importantly the fans had a good time. They were cheering me and I showed my appreciation. I thought that's what we were supposed to do -- entertain the fans. Show we care. People say it was special when Cal Ripken Jr. reached out to the fans during his victory lap after breaking Lou Gehrig's record. But why should it be a special occasion? Shouldn't we connect with fans every game? Shouldn't we always shake their hands and thank them for supporting us through thick and thin, through steadily increasing ticket prices and stadium blackmail? Aren't we supposed to be bringing young fans to the game? Aren't we supposed to make the fans smile?" "Nah, that's what we got Mr. Met for," Randolph replied. "You, however, are supposed to shut up and go about your business like all the other rookies. You're supposed to play the game, come into the clubhouse, turn up the stereo system to 11, sit in the lunchroom watching highlights on "SportsCenter" until the writers have to leave because they're on deadline and then go out to a strip joint to wind down. "What you're not supposed to do is make a fool of yourself. You're supposed to show the game respect. Got that?" Milledge nodded. "Good," Randolph said, pulling something out of his desk drawer. "Now, go slip into this cheerleaders skirt and nylon stockings. It's rookie hazing day and we've got a flight to catch." BOX SCORE LINE OF THE WEEK When Jamie Moyer was a rookie in 1986, he threw a two-hitter against the Expos. It took him only 20 years and seven organizations, but he finally threw another one last Friday to shut out the Royals 4-0 in two hours. His line: 9 IP, 2 H, 0 R, 0 ER, 1 BB, 2 K At 43, he is the oldest pitcher to throw a complete game shutout since Charlie Hough in 1994. Jim Caple is a senior writer for ESPN.com. You can reach Jim at jimcaple.com. Sound off to Page 2 here.

Edgy DC Jun 07 2006 12:44 PM

Caple miss point. Not 'bout secret rulez. Not 'bout pointing at sky. Mongo mad.

Edgy DC Jun 07 2006 08:13 PM

Edgy DC wrote: Mr. Cross-Bearin'-Tobacco-Chewin-Fly-Droppin'-Parent-Heartbreakin'-Braid-Wearin'-GM's-Son-Spikin'-High-Fivin' Rookie leading off today? No. He does get upgraded to seventh, however.

Elster88 Jun 07 2006 08:34 PM

If Beltran is going to play center, why would you ever start Milledge in left instead of right? The guy has a missile launcher where his arm should be.

Methead Jun 07 2006 09:12 PM

Nice to see him take an outside pitch the other way. Stick with that approach, dude.

Methead Jun 07 2006 10:22 PM

Or, you know, feel free to smoke curveballs into the leftfield stands. Whichever you prefer.

Elster88 Jun 07 2006 11:51 PM

The kid is hitting and throwing seeds. .308/.321/.692//1.013

soupcan Jun 08 2006 07:43 AM

[url=http://www.nypost.com/php/pfriendly/print.php?url=http://www.nypost.com/sports/mets/69812.htm]Full story.[/url] MIGHTY MILLEDGE By MARK HALE In the eight games he's played with the Mets, Milledge is 8-for-26 with two homers, five extra-base hits, seven RBIs and two outfield assists. The tenure of Xavier Nady, who's out after having an appendectomy, as starting right fielder could be over. That's just a bit premature, no? I'm all for playing the best player but Nady wasn't exactly spitting the bit. Sure keep Lastings up here but I need more than a sample size before I'm giving X-Man the bum's rush.

MFS62 Jun 08 2006 07:59 AM

Lessee now. Hit: check Hit for power: check Field: check (minus one oops but a couple of plusses) Run: check Throw: check Yup, he's exhibited all of 'em. Later

Benjamin Grimm Jun 08 2006 08:03 AM

Floyd should be more worried than Nady.

metirish Jun 08 2006 08:07 AM

At the very least when all are healthy we have a deep bench......

Elster88 Jun 08 2006 08:14 AM

I've got no problem with sending Milledge down until the roster expansion so he can keep playing every day. It's not like people don't get injured on this team.

Benjamin Grimm Jun 08 2006 08:16 AM

="Elster88"]I've got no problem with sending Milledge down until the roster expansion so he can keep playing every day. It's not like people don't get injured on this team. I'm in favor of finding a way to have him play every day too, but not a AAA. Let him stay and play. Floyd, as much as I like him, is the more expendable guy.

Elster88 Jun 08 2006 08:19 AM

Nah. I want Floyd starting every day before Milledge, and I definitely want Floyd starting over Milledge in any potential playoff series. You never know if there's some hole in a guy's hitting ability until the league has seen him a couple of times. Timo Perez looked like an all-star his first few weeks here too. Jefferies is a good example, too, IIRC. After he hit like .900 in late 1988 didn't he struggle a bit over the next couple of years? I still think that Milledge is going to hit a lull fairly soon, and I'm hoping it doesn't happen when we need him to start during the pennant race or in a playoff series.

MFS62 Jun 08 2006 09:28 AM

88, he already hit his "lull" at Norfolk this year. His average dropped down from the .300s to the 270s. Then he figured out what the pitchers were doing, made the necessary adjustments, and was back near .300 when the Mets called him up. He has tremendous bat speed (as mentioned by many analysts). And because of that, it seems he can adjust quickly. He's hot, and he should stay in the lineup as long as he keeps it up, whether or not Nady has returned. Nady wouldn't look bad coming off the bench (except to him) and platooning with Cliff this year and he would be the one to step in for Cliff next year. He can get additional at bats filling in for Delgado when Willie want to give Carlos a rest. Later

Elster88 Jun 08 2006 09:30 AM

Having a slump in AAA does not mean you won't have one in the majors. In fact, it makes one more likely. I've oft heard ballplayers say that the biggest change in talent, by far, occurs in the step from AAA to the majors. Yeah keep him in while hot. But don't start him over Floyd for sure, and when he hits a slump, put Nady back in immediately. In fact, I'm still not sure I wouldn't put Nady back in if he came back today.

cleonjones11 Jun 09 2006 12:43 AM

Goodbye Nady...He will probalby rehab for a long time til AS break and and come back when Floyds legs give out...Which basically they aleady have.. NO PAIN NO GAIN

duan Jun 09 2006 04:03 AM 4 ofs is NOT a problem

seriously folks, it won't be hard to get 4 of's decent playing time especially with both Cliff & Carlos' tendancies to get a bit banged up). Endy Chavez has had over 100 abs so far this season; putting on pace for over 300. Why don't we just let Lastings get most of them? I see no problem floyd having the odd 4 day week.

SteveJRogers Jun 09 2006 06:05 AM

You knew THIS article was coming from the New York Post's Phil Mushnick ]June 9, 2006 -- VETERAN rocker Dave Mason sings it best: "Seems the simple things are the hardest to explain." Willie Randolph, Sunday, scolded 21-year-old Met rookie Lastings Milledge for getting too close and too personal with fans while returning to the outfield after hitting a dramatic homer. Over the next 48 hours, Randolph was hammered by both national and local sports talk show hosts - as well as their guests and callers - as a fuddy duddy, a buzz-killer and an overly officious authority figure who should simply, "leave the kid alone." From Mike Francesa and Chris Russo on WFAN, to Keith Olbermann, Mike Greenberg and Mike Golic on ESPN radio, Randolph was portrayed as a fellow who, in this case, seems eager to senselessly destroy youthful enthusiasm, not to mention free and fun expression. Tuesday, on Golic and Greenberg's "Mike & Mike" national TV/radio simulcast, Randolph was even nominated for the dreaded, "Just Shut Up" award. But if we're now safe from swinging legs attached to jerking knees, allow us, albeit perhaps too late, to try to instill some common, op-ed sense into this issue: Isn't it reasonable and logical to presume that Willie Randolph knows Lastings Milledge a lot<$> better than the rest of us? Never thought of that, did we? Randolph has not only managed Milledge in spring training, he's privy to organizational scouting reports, phone calls and meetings that just may have concluded that if Milledge is to succeed in the majors his immediate boss must lean on him, early and often, demanding that he comport himself in a manner that will, in the long run, be best for both the Mets and Milledge. It's not, after all, a secret that Milledge arrived at Shea as a kid who seems to demand extra attention, more than a little of it negative. One more time: Do any of those who this week went after Randolph for his handling of Milledge know Milledge better than Randolph? Of course not. OK, then, as they sometimes say on the radio, just shut up. *

Gwreck Jun 09 2006 06:13 AM Re: 4 ofs is NOT a problem

duan wrote: seriously folks, it won't be hard to get 4 of's decent playing time especially with both Cliff & Carlos' tendancies to get a bit banged up). Endy Chavez has had over 100 abs so far this season; putting on pace for over 300. Why don't we just let Lastings get most of them? I see no problem floyd having the odd 4 day week. I like the idea in theory but it could be very tough to work out. Beltran is going to play every day if healthy -- we want that -- and it's probably worth noting that he's missed only 2 starts (the doubleheader last weekend) since returning on April 29 from the week-long injury. The best case-scenario -- if a 4 players will be kept on the active roster -- I think would be a situation developing where Nady and Floyd start a semi-platoon with Lastings playing 5 out of every 6 games perhaps. This would leave only 3 starts per week per player though, and such a situation could produce negative effects upon both. After all, if the plan is to develop Nady into an everyday player, this isn't going to do much to that end. Sitting Lastings more to get Nady PT wouldn't happen, I think. Nady could theoretically get starts at first when Delgado sits, but Delgado's going to sit perhaps once every 20 games (anything more frequent would be silly, anyway). This will also mean that Julio Franco and Endy Chavez play basically never, but that's not really a concern of any substance.

duan Jun 09 2006 06:44 AM

don't forget we've got 9 interleague games at AL parks starting on 23rd June.

Benjamin Grimm Jun 09 2006 06:45 AM

In Adam Rubin's article in the Daily News this morning, he mentions that Cliff Floyd is speculating that he might be dealt by July 31 to make room for Lastings. Could happen, I suppose.

Elster88 Jun 09 2006 06:46 AM

]In Adam Rubin's article in the Daily News this morning, he mentions that Cliff Floyd is speculating that he might be dealt by July 31 to make room for Lastings. Could happen. I hope it doesn't. We don't NEED to make room for Lastings for this year. We really, really, don't. And having Floyd around for the stretch run and any possible playoff series is a good thing. The only way this makes sense is if we get a #2 or better starter in the deal. And I don't see a team that is willing to give up a #2 or better starter wanting to take on Floyd.

Gwreck Jun 09 2006 06:51 AM

duan wrote: don't forget we've got 9 interleague games at AL parks starting on 23rd June. Not sure Nady will be back for any of those games. Maybe the MFY series.

Johnny Dickshot Jun 09 2006 06:52 AM

Just for shitzz and gigglez, the MFYs need an outfielder and the Mets (may) need a 2Bman (Valentin is swinging great now but still not convinced of his staying power). Cano-Nady?

Gwreck Jun 09 2006 06:58 AM

]In Adam Rubin's article in the Daily News this morning, he mentions that Cliff Floyd is speculating that he might be dealt by July 31 to make room for Lastings. When trying to figure how they might play Floyd/Nady/Milledge the thought occured to me but I didn't type it because I don't want it to happen. Perhaps it's my loyalty to Floyd coloring the opinion but I wonder if, with the exception of San Diego, Cliff would gladly take a lesser role rather than being traded.

MFS62 Jun 09 2006 07:06 AM

Keep them all. Sure, Nady will be disappointed. But he can fill in for Delgado if willie want to give Carlos (or Floyd) an occasional rest against lefties. And the Mets will get a better reading as to whether he is the long term solution once Floyd's contract is up. Later

Elster88 Jun 09 2006 07:14 AM

Johnny Dickshot wrote: Just for shitzz and gigglez, the MFYs need an outfielder and the Mets (may) need a 2Bman (Valentin is swinging great now but still not convinced of his staying power). Cano-Nady? I doubt the MFYs would do that.

Benjamin Grimm Jun 09 2006 07:15 AM

I'd also like to keep them all, but unless you demote Endy, who's been a productive role player, you have to lose an infielder. (Matsui being the obvious choice.) But as Edgy pointed out in another thread (or earlier in this one, maybe) that would leave the Mets with Woodward as their only reserve infielder. If Lastings stays, and everyone's still healthy, one of Floyd, Nady, or Chavez has to go. Not an easy choice.

Elster88 Jun 09 2006 07:24 AM

Yancy Street Gang wrote: If Lastings stays, and everyone's still healthy, one of Floyd, Nady, or Chavez has to go. Not an easy choice. I think it's an easy choice.

soupcan Jun 09 2006 07:36 AM

Blurb in this morning's NY Post speculates that if Matsui doesn't agree to expand the number of teams he is allowed to be traded to from the Yankees, Angels or Dodgers (as per his contract) that he will be released. What a bust he was.

smg58 Jun 09 2006 07:56 AM

I can't imagine why Kaz wouldn't waive his no trade clause, unless at this point he just wants to go back to Japan. Milledge is admittedly making the decision harder. I think the Mets wold love to have Milledge, Nady, and Floyd all active during the stretch of games at AL parks. That would also give the Mets more time to evaluate where Milledge really is at this stage of his development, and if he already presents an upgrade over one of the corner outfield spots. The fact that all three regular outfielders have missed some games this year makes me very reluctant to trade Floyd or Nady. Somebody would have to make an offer that clearly upgrades second base or the rotation to get me to bite, and deals like that rarely get made in July.

Gwreck Jun 09 2006 08:55 AM

Yancy Street Gang wrote: I'd also like to keep them all, but unless you demote Endy, who's been a productive role player, you have to lose an infielder. (Matsui being the obvious choice.) But as Edgy pointed out in another thread (or earlier in this one, maybe) that would leave the Mets with Woodward as their only reserve infielder. If Lastings stays, and everyone's still healthy, one of Floyd, Nady, or Chavez has to go. Not an easy choice. Let's not forget that the bullpen could be reduced by a man too. This doesn't seem likely but it's not clear to me that having Heath Bell on the roster is adding a whole ton. When we say "only 1 reserve infielder," we're shortchanging Franco...I think. If all he can play is first base, he's looking a bit redundant, given that Delgado rarely rests and Nady, Woodward and LoDuca can all play first. I wonder if Endy has trade value (?)

Elster88 Jun 09 2006 08:57 AM

If Franco only plays first, then from a pure on-the-field standpoint, Franco should be the one to go when Nady comes back if we don't remove a bullpenner. I realize that contract length and leadership also factor into such decisions.

Gwreck Jun 09 2006 09:00 AM

Maybe we can discover that he's "injured" and he has to unfortunately take a stint on the DL. He gets paid, he's still there in the clubhouse and dugout to provide the leadership, etc etc...

Edgy DC Jun 09 2006 09:22 AM

Franco backing up first means one reserve at second, third, and short. That usually doesn't happen. Heath Bell, for the meantime, seemse more removeable to me. Five guys at four positions is pretty easy to do, and it's five positions during the sweep through the AL parks. If Millege goes down after that, he goes. If he doesn't, so what? Good problem to have right now. ]Goodbye Nady...He will probalby rehab for a long time til AS break and and come back when Floyds legs give out...Which basically they aleady have.. NO PAIN NO GAIN This makes little sense.

Benjamin Grimm Jun 09 2006 09:27 AM

For the record, the Mets are playing nine games in AL parks this season, and, conveniently, they're all consecutive, albeit with one off day. June 23 through 25, Toronto. June 27 through 29, Boston. June 30 through July 2, Bronx. It would be a little more difficult if the DH period were broken up by games in NL parks, but since they're all together, it might be a good idea to adjust the roster for that stretch if there's an adjustment that makes sense.

Elster88 Jun 09 2006 09:52 AM

NY Post wrote: Matsui is a candidate to be released by the Mets, according to a person with knowledge of the club's thinking. "When asked to expound on their source, the Post elaborated as follows, 'He has knowledge of the club's thinking. He told us that they think using their brains.'"

Edgy DC Jun 09 2006 09:54 AM

Edgy DC wrote: Franco backing up first means one reserve at second, third, and short. I should have added, but overlooked, that Nady can backup at third as well.

Rockin' Doc Jun 09 2006 11:22 AM

Edgy - "I should have added, but overlooked, that Nady can backup at third as well." Yup.* That was precisely my thinking when I wrote that Matsui was the likely one to go if Milledge continues his solid performance until Nady is ready to return. Wright is not going to get too many days off, so a back up third baseman is not of high priority. In an emergency Nady could play the hot corner. Assuming that Valentin is starting at second, then Woodward would be the reserve for short, second, or third. Julio Franco can cover first (as could Nady) on the rare day off for Delgado. In desperate times, Franco could probably cover third for a few innings. I like having offensive threats with speed and power available off the bench. Barring an injury, it is unlikely that the Mets would need replacements at both middle infield positions in a game. If it did come up, then the team would have to make due for the remainder of that game, then call up either Keppinger or Hernandez from Norfolk. I also agree that one of the lesser used bullpen pitchers could also be expendable, but I doubt Willie will want to give up any arms. *I can't get the stupid copyright symbol to work.

Centerfield Jun 09 2006 11:54 AM

I don't know if this is the right place for it, but something Milledge did last night irked me a bit. It was on the play where he misjudged the ball, overran it, leaped, juggled, then caught the ball. All of that was fine, but as the ball went off his glove, Milledge located it, then instead of catching it, popped it from his glove into his bare hand. Again, not a big deal, but if you misplay a ball like that, you'd like to see the kid grab it with two hands on the rebound instead of pulling some fancy shit like that. If he had dropped it the ball by doing that crap, he would have been ripped. The fact that he pulled off that crap, doesn't make it a better play. Again, I don't know what it is about this kid, but he seems to find a way to rub people the wrong way.

Edgy DC Jun 09 2006 11:58 AM

The needle on the irk meter moved a bit down here in DC, also --- noted it in the game thread.

Benjamin Grimm Jun 09 2006 12:05 PM

That bugged me too. If you want to be flashy and hot doggy, that's one thing. But don't let it get in the way of making the play. And Lastings almost did that.

Elster88 Jun 09 2006 12:06 PM

Edgy DC wrote: The needle on the irk meter moved a bit down here in DC, also --- noted it in the game thread. For the same play or for something else?

Edgy DC Jun 09 2006 12:07 PM

That one.

MFS62 Jun 09 2006 12:19 PM

Funny, but I have no problem with the "flip". I played in an era when baseball was transitioning from smaller gloves* where you could get your hand in there and get the ball out quickly, to the "trap pocket" and other large gloves where you sometimes couldn't even feel whether you caught the ball, muchless get it out to make a throw. As a result, I used to catch grounders with an almost open glove, then "flip" the ball to my throwing hand in order to get rid of it. Today, it would look hot doggy, but it was a move born out of necessity. You did what you had to do in order to be able to get the ball away quickly. Lastings brought back some of those memories. Later * = I still have my George Kell and Duke Snider model gloves around somewhere - Rawlings PM-5 and PM-20X. But someone stole my Stan Lopata model catchers mitt.

Edgy DC Jun 09 2006 12:38 PM

He didn't catch the ball with his glove. He juggled it and then snatched it out or the air with his hand. It wasn't a legit catch until he grabbed it one-handed with his bare hand. It was a simple enough grab --- the ball had stopped rotating and was hanging there --- but, considering his error last week, it put me off.

MFS62 Jun 09 2006 12:48 PM

Gotcha' Later

Elster88 Jun 15 2006 07:45 AM

[url=http://newyork.mets.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20060614&content_id=1504806&vkey=news_nym&fext=.jsp&c_id=nym]nymets.com inteprets Willie's comments to mean that Milledge Time may be over.[/url] Your interpretation may vary. PHILADELPHIA -- The days Lastings Milledge will spend in the big leagues in the immediate future appear numbered, though the number hasn't been determined. Barring injury to another outfielder, Milledge is likely to be returned to Triple-A Norfolk either when the disabled list assignment of Xavier Nady ends, or shortly thereafter. No one said so in as many words, but manager Willie Randolph made two remarks on Wednesday that made it clear Milledge's tenure will not last into July. First, the manager noted that the resumption of Interleague Play and the use of the designated hitter rule won't necessarily prompt him to use Nady (if he is activated), Cliff Floyd (if he's healthy), Milledge and Carlos Beltran in the same lineup. The manager had said he intends to use the DH rule to give Julio Franco some at-bats and veterans like Floyd, Beltran and/or Carlos Delgado partial days off. More to the point, Randolph said, "We've accomplished what we wanted with him. He's helped us get through some injuries, and he's played well. But what we wanted was to expose him to what it's like up here, so when he comes back, it's not all 'wow' for him." The manager has said several times that Milledge needs to play regularly. Activating Nady would make it difficult for Milledge to play every day. And Nady, Beltran and Floyd are going to play.

Benjamin Grimm Jun 15 2006 07:50 AM

I'm okay with that. But if Floyd doesn't get it going, we do have another option. I wonder if Lastings will be with the Mets on August 31. I'd like him to be.

Edgy DC Jun 15 2006 07:51 AM

See you in September See you when the summer's through

metirish Jun 15 2006 07:57 AM

] GREEN DAY LYRICS "Wake Me Up When September Ends" Summer has come and passed The innocent can never last wake me up when september ends like my fathers come to pass seven years has gone so fast wake me up when september ends here comes the rain again falling from the stars drenched in my pain again becoming who we are as my memory rests but never forgets what I lost wake me up when september ends summer has come and passed the innocent can never last wake me up when september ends ring out the bells again like we did when spring began wake me up when september ends here comes the rain again falling from the stars drenched in my pain again becoming who we are as my memory rests but never forgets what I lost wake me up when september ends Summer has come and passed The innocent can never last wake me up when september ends like my father's come to pass twenty years has gone so fast wake me up when september ends wake me up when september ends wake me up when september ends

MFS62 Jun 15 2006 10:13 AM

The more I think of it, the more I believe it would be good to send Lastings down. The skills are there, but he needs to learn "how to play the game". Up to now, his raw talent was enough for him to excel on the minor league level and be competitive at the major league level. But he seems to be unaware of the nuances of being a winning ballplayer. After each gaffe, Willie and others have told him how he should have done it. His errors have mostly been what Tim McCarver would call "errors of enthusiasm". He seems like a bright kid, able to take each incident in and learn from it. We will be better able to confirm that when he hopefully doesn't make the same mistakes again. Maybe a trip back to the minors will give him some humility, an opportunity to realize that talent isn't everything, and a chance to put what he has learned into practice. Later

Centerfield Jun 15 2006 03:04 PM

I would not call them errors of enthusiasm. His flip on the recovery after misjudging a ball was about being flashy, not enthusiastic. His failure to run hard on Franco's double was also not an error of enthusiasm. Metsblog has a blurb today saying Milledge came to the ballpark late after having missed the team bus. I don't like his comment in the News today that because the Mets won, his failure to run hard didn't matter. This kid may be talented, and he may be young, but he needs to get his attitude in order. If he doesn't, he will no doubt go as far as his talent will take him anyway, but it won't make him likeable. There have been too many incidents. This kid doesn't get it.

Elster88 Jun 15 2006 03:05 PM

Agreed. And he's only been here 2 weeks, and already there's a decent number of things.

Edgy DC Jun 15 2006 03:24 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jun 15 2006 03:37 PM

]There have been too many incidents 1) Latings Milledge made David Banner angry. 2) Lastings Milledge traffics in tuna that isn't dolphin safe. 3) Lastings Milledge knows where Nathalie Holloway is and won't tell anybody. 4) Lastings Milledge is behind the proliferation of deep-dish pizza, ruining the pizza experience for millions. 5) Lastings Milledge gas put four doo-rag manufactureers out of business just by being so extremely uncool on TV. 6) Lastings Milledge has put Urkel out of business by making uncool so uncool. 7) Lastings Milledge is depressing the birth rate. His mother isn't the only one who didn't want to have any children after seeing him. 8) Sly Stone came out of retirement to record "Everybody Is a Star (Except Lastings Milledge)." 9) Everybody Lastings has touched since coming to the Mets has been hit with appendicitis. It's true. 10) Lastings Milledge crossed orcs and goblins to create very smelly hybrid race

TransMonk Jun 15 2006 03:30 PM

I feel dirty saying it, but if Milledge was on any other team, I would hate his guts. Ballplayers with attitudes (especially rookies with attitudes) rub me the wrong way. And if you're going to be a ballplayer with attitude you better be the greatest player ever and make zero mistakes. Milledge has looked too much like a rookie to have any attitude or flair right now. Milledge needs to be sent down for seasoning and a head adjustment.

Johnny Dickshot Jun 15 2006 03:35 PM

Lastings Milledge stabbed a tourist on the C-train the other day. Lastings Milledge has repeatedly skipped his turn to nominate a band in the CPF Band Ladder Challenge

Edgy DC Jun 15 2006 03:37 PM

Freaking Milledge broke up the Doobie Brothers.

ScarletKnight41 Jun 15 2006 03:38 PM

He needs some of this -

Hillbilly Jun 15 2006 03:40 PM

So you guy are saying he's uppity? Unless he totally tanks by the time Nady and Floyd are 100%, I say keep him up.

sharpie Jun 15 2006 03:50 PM

I'm with Hillbilly. I'd rather see him out there than Eli Marrero.

Frayed Knot Jun 15 2006 04:15 PM

I think he'll be sent down once Cliff & X get back and the inter-league period is behind us ... not because he acted up too much but because that was the plan all along and - while he's played well for the most part - it's not like he set the world on fire. He'll be back, almost certainly this year and quite possibly before Sept 1 so if/when the playoff roster is made he can be eligible for it. And when he does re-appear all that "first-time" stuff will be behind him and hopefully a few lessons will have sunk in and he'll be 1-2 months worth of ABs smarter.

Centerfield Jun 15 2006 04:17 PM

Lastings Milledge recommended Kazmir be traded to Zambrano. Lastings Milledge wrote the script to Major League 2. Lastings Milledge likes the anti-smoking commercials on SNY. Lastings Milledge thinks Derek Jeter is clutch and A-Rod a choker. Lastings Milledge loves it when they use rock anthems in commercials for detergent.

Edgy DC Jun 15 2006 04:23 PM

]I think he'll be sent down once Cliff & X get back and the inter-league period is behind us ... not because he acted up too much but because that was the plan all along and - while he's played well for the most part - it's not like he set the world on fire. He'll be back, almost certainly this year and quite possibly before Sept 1 so if/when the playoff roster is made he can be eligible for it. And when he does re-appear all that "first-time" stuff will be behind him and hopefully a few lessons will have sunk in and he'll be 1-2 months worth of ABs smarter. All of which suggests that the Mets have taken a delicate situation and (*gulp*) played it pretty well. Leaving aside that whole threat-to-slap-a-libel-suit-on-a-Milledge-critic thing.

Frayed Knot Jun 15 2006 04:41 PM

I don't think one has a whole lot to do with the other. Keeping and/or sending down Milledge is a baseball decision. That the team ownership (and their deputies), who are running a corporation that in part depends on good public relations, are sensitive (at times overly so) to the hint of bad publicity is a different kettle of fishies.

Edgy DC Jun 15 2006 04:51 PM

Yeah, so I left it aside.

Elster88 Jun 15 2006 08:28 PM

Edgy DC wrote: ]There have been too many incidents 1) Latings Milledge made David Banner angry. 2) Lastings Milledge traffics in tuna that isn't dolphin safe. 3) Lastings Milledge knows where Nathalie Holloway is and won't tell anybody. 4) Lastings Milledge is behind the proliferation of deep-dish pizza, ruining the pizza experience for millions. That's very funny. Thanks for the help. Sarcasm aside, I hope you see where I'm coming from at least.

Elster88 Jun 15 2006 08:29 PM

TransMonk wrote: I feel dirty saying it, but if Milledge was on any other team, I would hate his guts. Ballplayers with attitudes (especially rookies with attitudes) rub me the wrong way. This is what I was going for.

metirish Jun 16 2006 07:20 AM

Speaking of attitude...and I agree with Monk... ] Milledge's clock is alarming PHILADELPHIA - Lastings Milledge arrived in the clubhouse at 11:55 a.m., only 70 minutes before yesterday's first pitch, prompting a second straight day of tutorials on how to conduct oneself in the majors. A day after Willie Randolph thought Milledge "spectated" rather than raced from first to home Wednesday, coach Sandy Alomar Sr. and veterans pulled Milledge aside and told him it is unwise to arrive so close to game time. Milledge did not play yesterday, but Randolph said the rookie would start today and that the move was made to get recently acquired Eli Marrero a start. The manager downplayed Milledge's arrival time and suggested he wasn't actually late, noting the team didn't take batting practice. Still, even ultra-politically correct David Wright labeled it "unacceptable," saying a general rule of thumb for a young player is to make sure he has arrived at the stadium before players riding the team bus, which departed the hotel at 10:45a.m. for the short ride to the ballpark. "I didn't jump on him," Alomar Sr. said. "I just gave him advice." Part of that advice is to watch how he conducts himself, since labels can be difficult to shake. During his 17-day major-league stint, Milledge also has been instructed to tuck in a four-inch cross that was around his neck during his debut, and advised not to high-five fans after homering. "Lastings is a great kid," Alomar said. "He's a kid who's been caught up in the hype of the game. Really he does listen when you talk to him." Milledge said that in the minors he typically showed up closer to the first pitch for matinees. He also said he was so talented compared to his competition before arriving in the majors that actions like this went unrecognized. "I never had to deal with any teaching because I played the game pretty much well enough for people to have left me alone," Milledge said. GM Omar Minaya tried to suggest that Jose Reyes, Wright and other highly touted young players all go through the same thing; in actuality, however, Wright's biggest problem frequently was getting to ballparks too early. "If he wasn't good, we wouldn't be talking about this," Minaya said of Milledge.

Elster88 Jun 16 2006 07:22 AM

After the game yesterday Willie gave Milledge a huge hug and shoulder massage from behind as the team was shaking hands on the field.

metirish Jun 16 2006 07:24 AM

Certainly one of Willies strengths is how he deals with his players.

Elster88 Jun 16 2006 07:28 AM

True. I was also making the point that Willie didn't seem upset with him or anything. Milledge had a huge smile on his face and was laughing.

Hillbilly Jun 16 2006 08:42 AM

="Frayed Knot"]I think he'll be sent down once Cliff & X get back and the inter-league period is behind us ... not because he acted up too much but because that was the plan all along and - while he's played well for the most part - it's not like he set the world on fire. He'll be back, almost certainly this year and quite possibly before Sept 1 so if/when the playoff roster is made he can be eligible for it. And when he does re-appear all that "first-time" stuff will be behind him and hopefully a few lessons will have sunk in and he'll be 1-2 months worth of ABs smarter. I agree with FK not that this is most likely the way things play out. But the kid has been made an unfair target already. He got shit for wearing a cross and giving high fives to fans. Now, the horror! A 21 year old slept late. That' just about what you'd expect to happen. Thus, somebody should have made sure his ass was on the team bus. It seems to me he needs to around these older, experinced, and very talented players to have role models he can respect and model his behavior after.

Johnny Dickshot Jun 16 2006 08:48 AM

I wouldn't blame the vets for a rookie oversleeping. I think Cliff remarked that he felt it was best to let him learn as he goes, so as not to overwhelm him with rules and stuff, just to learn by trial and error, and point out to him when he screws up. That sorta seems like a good idea and tho it's spun as a bad thing, pretty much what Mets anticipated might happen.

Edgy DC Jun 16 2006 08:49 AM

]Sarcasm aside, I hope you see where I'm coming from at least. My only point in the gross distoritions is that You're never as big a saint as they make you out to be when they're lionizing you. You're never as big a dick as they make you out to be when they're demonizing you. Actually, not "never," but it reads better that way. This is a concern, but it's likely going to get knocked out of proportion just because (1) everybody goes for the same angle at the same time, and (2) superheroes and supervillians sell papers, presumably.

MFS62 Jun 16 2006 08:53 AM

]Really he does listen when you talk to him." That's the kind of information I was hoping to see. Later

Hillbilly Jun 16 2006 08:56 AM

Johnny Dickshot wrote: I wouldn't blame the vets for a rookie oversleeping. I think Cliff remarked that he felt it was best to let him learn as he goes, so as not to overwhelm him with rules and stuff, just to learn by trial and error, and point out to him when he screws up. That sorta seems like a good idea and tho it's spun as a bad thing, pretty much what Mets anticipated might happen. I’d agree if wasn’t how this stuff gets into the press, who seem to be hell bent on labeling him a bad guy. I think some preventive actions could be used to avoid this stupid crap from getting into the papers and riling anybody up. Why not help him learn the ropes and keep him under a cover a little?

metirish Jun 16 2006 08:58 AM

I would think Lastings should know how to act as a pro, I mean is showing up " late" tolerated in the minors?, as an organization shouldn't the Mets have this kinda stuff taken care of on the farm.

Elster88 Jun 16 2006 09:00 AM

Hillbilly wrote: ="Johnny Dickshot"]I wouldn't blame the vets for a rookie oversleeping. I think Cliff remarked that he felt it was best to let him learn as he goes, so as not to overwhelm him with rules and stuff, just to learn by trial and error, and point out to him when he screws up. That sorta seems like a good idea and tho it's spun as a bad thing, pretty much what Mets anticipated might happen. I’d agree if wasn’t how this stuff gets into the press, who seem to be hell bent on labeling him a bad guy. I think some preventive actions could be used to avoid this stupid crap from getting into the papers and riling anybody up. Why not help him learn the ropes and keep him under a cover a little? Agreed. That's where Willie's "lies" about punishment and bad behavior come in handy. Edit: HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOJOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Edgy DC Jun 16 2006 09:07 AM

I spoke with Cliff Floyd's headmaster from his prep school days. Cliff was always late for chapel, and they got sick of chasing their huge and surly (apparently not a morning person) stud jock out of bed, so it became the job of the head's daughter --- who, at three or four was fascinated with Cliff the way kids are by huge people, and was too cute for him to be surly with --- to jump on his bed, wake him up, and chase him down the hall.

Hillbilly Jun 16 2006 09:17 AM

metirish wrote: I would think Lastings should know how to act as a pro, I mean is showing up " late" tolerated in the minors?, as an organization shouldn't the Mets have this kinda stuff taken care of on the farm. I see you used " around late, which is appropriate because no where in the article was the word used. Lastings broke a 'general rule of thumb' that he very likely didn't know existed. That’s why I think somebody should be 'big brothering' him and helping him adjust, because apparently there are some differences between the minors and majors that we haven’t considered. Why should these differences be apparent to a 21 year old who has been nothing but a prima donna star athlete his whole life? This is a whole lot of nothing.

MFS62 Jun 16 2006 09:24 AM

Another "unwritten rule" for our list. Later

Centerfield Jun 17 2006 09:50 AM

This is good to see...from today's News: Milledge, incidentally, was by no means tardy yesterday. One day after causing a mild stir by arriving 70 minutes before game time, Milledge was on the field roughly four hours before the game doing early work.

cleonjones11 Jun 17 2006 02:20 PM

All of the negative sells papers and TV time media lives on fear and consumption

Iubitul Jun 17 2006 03:15 PM

Hillbilly wrote: Lastings broke a 'general rule of thumb' that he very likely didn't know existed. That’s why I think somebody should be 'big brothering' him and helping him adjust, because apparently there are some differences between the minors and majors that we haven’t considered. Why should these differences be apparent to a 21 year old who has been nothing but a prima donna star athlete his whole life? This is a whole lot of nothing. It's all my fault. He's my adoptee, and I haven't been around for the little guy...

Frayed Knot Jun 17 2006 03:19 PM

="cleonjones11"]media lives on fear and consumption Or, if there's a TB epidemic around, they live on fear OF consumption.

KC Jun 17 2006 03:19 PM

cj: >>>All of the negative sells papers<<< I've never bought a paper in hope of finding some unwarranted negativity. Have you?

ScarletKnight41 Jun 17 2006 03:23 PM

Iubitul wrote: It's all my fault. He's my adoptee, and I haven't been around for the little guy... Yup© No more long absences for you!

cleonjones11 Jun 17 2006 04:56 PM

="KC"]cj: >>>All of the negative sells papers<<< I've never bought a paper in hope of finding some unwarranted negativity. Have you? Ever watch espn to see Delmon Young or Roger Clemens throw a bat...watch CNN for the latest scare. I'm just saying these Mlledge things are petty and not worthy of this much scrutiny.in my opinion anyway. Beyond that..I got this feeling hes gonna get traded before he becomes Deion Sanders...

KC Jun 17 2006 05:08 PM

When did ESPN and CNN start selling newspapers? You said negativity sells and I don't know anyone (except maybe you, you didn't answer my question) that buys a newspaper for negativity. I buy the paper (and watch ESPN and CNN) for news. What they give me, I'm stuck with, and weed through the bullshit. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- I fell out of a friends boat once and didn't hit water

Elster88 Jun 17 2006 07:26 PM

I think I kind of see where cj is going with this. I always thought the news was more likely to lead with a story of a murder before a feel good story.

Nymr83 Jun 17 2006 07:33 PM

without a doubt, the local news is essentially a report on the criminal activity in the 5 boroughs along with sports and weather.

KC Jun 17 2006 07:37 PM

He said it sells, it doesn't sell me (or from what I read you guys either). *tap* *tap* *tap* is this thing on?

Elster88 Jun 17 2006 07:38 PM

The average CPFer intelligence level is higher than that of the average citizen.

Nymr83 Jun 17 2006 07:40 PM

some people aren't stuck to a specific paper, they'll buy a different one every morning, i suppose the argument is that when one headline says "Milledge feuding with Randolph" and the other one is "Mets lose" more people will buy the first paper. that seems to be how the papers feel at least.

Zvon Jun 18 2006 11:35 AM

So Nady is up and activated. All stays like it is because Floyd has been put on the DL. So Milledge stays up,....for now. I think they are gonna shuttle Bell, myself.

DocTee Jun 18 2006 09:55 PM

From Sunday's SF Chronicle... [url]http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2006/06/18/SPGTMJG0NT1.DTL[/url] In another article John Shea suggests that "The A's could make a dramatic offensive improvement by trading Barry Zito, which we're told is a possibility. GM Billy Beane still adores Lastings Milledge, who has done some questionable things with the Mets that might suddenly make him tradeable. The A's farm system is thin in outielders." FWIW, Shea is pushing hard for EITHER the A's or Giants to acquire Soriano, with the former moving him to 2b and the latter grooming him as a replacement for Bonds/Alou.

Elster88 Jun 21 2006 11:09 AM

[url=http://www.amny.com/sports/baseball/mets/ny-spmnotes214790465jun21,0,2696323.story?coll=ny-baseball-headlines]Milledge would rather sit and stay then go to AAA.[/url]

TransMonk Jun 21 2006 11:19 AM

I'd rather have a six figure salary. I'd rather America wasn't at war. I'd rather outlaw the DH. But I'd really rather see Milledge get his ABs at AAA and keep his mouth shut.

Elster88 Jun 21 2006 11:23 AM

Honestly I think this story is just some reporter leading him to get a quote and then running with it. Newsday is a rag. I posted it for the hell of it.

TransMonk Jun 21 2006 11:30 AM

I watched Bull Durham over the weekend and I would love Milledge to follow the advise and learn some cliches. "I'm just happy to be here," "Whatever is best for the team," "I'm just taking it one day at a time." When he opens his mouth he sounds like all 21 year olds who know they have talent and the reporters are running with it.

Farmer Ted Jun 21 2006 12:03 PM

After seeing Nady back in uniform and playing, send the kid down.

Iubitul Jun 21 2006 12:08 PM

Actually, I agree with the kid. I think he will learn more being with the big club. Having Cliff, Franco, and Willie lean on him for the rest of the season would do him more good than getting his AB's in AAA, IMO

Elster88 Jun 21 2006 12:13 PM

TransMonk wrote: I watched Bull Durham over the weekend and I would love Milledge to follow the advise and learn some cliches. "I'm just happy to be here," "Whatever is best for the team," "I'm just taking it one day at a time." When he opens his mouth he sounds like all 21 year olds who know they have talent and the reporters are running with it. A lot of the population kills players for only spouting cliches and not being interesting. The kids can't win.

Benjamin Grimm Jun 21 2006 12:14 PM

I have no problem with Milledge going back to Norfolk when Floyd returns. We know where to find him if we need him again. But I do like the idea of recalling him in time for August 31. I think a taste of the postseason will be good for his development.

ScarletKnight41 Jun 21 2006 12:25 PM

I just made a similar comment to a friend about Milledge. He needs to learn his cliches.

Elster88 Jun 21 2006 12:30 PM

Really? You'd rather a player spout cliches than say "I'd rather stay in the bigs" (a perfectly normal comment that anyone in his position would say.)

Benjamin Grimm Jun 21 2006 12:33 PM

I don't care to hear any more cliches. But it does protect the player a bit. If he spouts cliches instead of what he really thinks, he won't talk himself into trouble. I still remember that column that had David Cone's name on it during the 1988 NLCS. I wish it had been more cliche-ridden. The Mets might have three of those World Series trophies.

Nymr83 Jun 21 2006 01:40 PM

i hate cliches. let Milledge say what Milledge thinks. I'd hate to hear a guy NOT say that he wants, and deserves, to be in the big leagues

TransMonk Jun 21 2006 02:15 PM

Milledge can say what ever he wants...I don't care. As far as him deserving a spot on the ML club, he doesn't. He is certainly a big league option, but he has done nothing to deserve a spot. I can understand wanting it, and I have no problem with him expressing that. But in the end, he is best served by doing whatever those around him tell him to do regardless of his opinion because they all have more baseball experience than he does.

Zvon Jun 21 2006 04:53 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jun 21 2006 05:00 PM

I want him up, but the odds are he will go down. Pitching is just such a more important commodity. Id rather see Bell on a shuttle but that has much more of a chance of coming back to bite you in the ass than one less bat on the bench. Woodward? To versatile a filler to send down. As much as I want to see Lastings up and coming off the bench, I cant see the advantage for the team to make the room for him at this point in the season. No knock on Milledge. Chavez and Valentin have just covered the corner outfield spots too well when theres the need. Now we got this Marrero guy whos another good filler. And by this weekend both Floyd and Nady are back. I personally hope that Floyd starts to hit like we know he can, cuz Id hate to lose him via trade, esp if this teams on the way to the post season. Floyd should be there for that. But I give him 3 weeks to a month. If he dont get his swing back in consistant form, somethings gonna give there. But Floyd will be given the chance and there will be future opportunities for Milledge.

Zvon Jun 21 2006 04:57 PM

I also may have kinda jinxed Milledge cuz I made this real kool custom KaBOOM for him and he hasnt hit a homer since. :(

cleonjones11 Jun 22 2006 01:09 PM

Got a funny Feeling Cliff Floyd has played his last game as a Met..Too bad..but I think he's about shot..

Edgy DC Jun 22 2006 01:21 PM

]Got a funny Feeling Cliff Floyd has played his last game as a Met. I'll disagree.

metirish Jun 23 2006 01:46 PM

Found this kinda harsh article in a local Hudson Valley paper... ] Major-league talent Minor-League attitude New York We've now gotten a nice three-week window of watching Lastings Milledge in a major-league uniform, and if we've learned anything about the 21-year-old phenom it's this: The kid has dazzling all-around talent. And the kid is trouble - a controversy waiting to happen, a problem child needing weekly reprimands. In the tiny space of 21 days, Milledge has managed to produce an impressive body of red flags, showing up late to the ballpark one day, loafing around the basepaths (and getting thrown out at the plate) another day, and one night having the uniquely bad sense - and timing - of high-fiving a long line of fans down the right-field line after hitting nothing more than a game-tying homer. Of course, none of this will really matter very soon, as this sideshow that has been Milledge's debut in the bigs will likely end before the week is out, when Cliff Floyd is added back from the DL. That's when Kid Trouble is the odd man out and gets booted back to Triple-A. Where he rightly belongs right now. Where he can hopefully work on growing out of the kinks in his inner game and possibly lose a chunk of that sizeable chip on his shoulder. Where he can't be around to do something weird or stupid or downright unprofessional that might derail, even for one moment, this wonderful Mets season. In fact, not only should the Mets bust this kid in rank, but do it with a firm, eyeball-to-eyeball warning. One final reprimand for good measure - if for no other reason than to break this kid's ego a bit. Tell him in no uncertain terms that he'd better learn to play and act like a major-leaguer in the future or be prepared to go back to the minors again and again. Maybe that'll wake him up. Maybe that'll humble him. Maybe. Because as of Tuesday, when I spoke to Milledge alone by his locker before the Reds game, he was utterly unapologetic about a single thing, saying without a hiccup that if he had to do these last three weeks all over again, "I wouldn't do anything differently." Which means he still doesn't get it. "Everything matters up here," he said with that sleepy-eyed look of his and while munching ever-so-slowly on a Reese's Peanut Butter Cup. "Small, big, it all matters. The biggest adjustment for me here hasn't been the game - that's been the easiest - but the off-the-field stuff." The other day, he was quoted as saying: "I never had to deal with any teaching because I played the game pretty much well enough for people to have left me alone." Which tells you where this kid's head is at. He's used to being the big star. With big-star treatment. With playing the game within his own bubble - and without interference. Just look at the uniform number he asked for when he got here: 44. That's not any number. That's a superstar's number. That's Reggie Jackson's number and Hank Aaron's number. That's the way Milledge sees himself. In his head, he merely thinks this superstardom is just around the corner, that if the Mets would only be patient and give him a little more time that he and his talent could burst free any day now. "You never know what could happen (these next few days)," he said. "I could go crazy and put pressure on them to keep me." It's the desperate last words of a dead player walking. The kid's barely hitting over .250. If he were hitting .350, the Mets' decision to send him down would be infinitely more difficult. They want to believe in the deep-down goodness in this kid, as much as they believe in the hugeness of his potential as a player. Willie Randolph keeps saying, despite all of Milledge's bush-league indiscretions, how much he likes the kid. And Omar Minaya says the same. Which is why we haven't seen anything in the way of disciplinary actions or fines. The Mets aren't at the point of tough-loving this kid yet. They're too invested in what Milledge could mean to their future. And Milledge isn't at the point yet of seeing anything so terribly wrong in what he's done here. "What you see is what you get," he said. Which is what I'm afraid of. Michael P. Geffner's column appears regularly in the Times Herald-Record. http://www.recordonline.com/archive/2006/06/22/sports-geffnercolumnmilledge-06-22.html

Edgy DC Jun 23 2006 02:02 PM

Take it easy.

metsmarathon Jun 23 2006 02:06 PM

"Just look at the uniform number he asked for when he got here: 44. That's not any number. That's a superstar's number. That's Reggie Jackson's number and Hank Aaron's number." wow. i mean, wow. should we be expecting our rookies to say "hey, what was jay payton's number? i want that one. he had a lot of promise but didnt really pan out, and that's pretty much what i expect of myself, so give me his number with which i might carry on his legacy" you know you've got no objectivity whatsoever when you blast a kid for his uniform number... and for the speed with wchich he munches on a reeses peanut butter cup - which is better when enjoyed slowly, by the way. i like that our rookie potential phenom isn't hindsighting himself into oblivion, personally. there's little in those quotes that causes me any personal alarm. the kid is unpolished, immature, and exuberent. that's just what i would expect of a kid who's all of 21 years of age. not every rookie is david wright. just because a good one isn't, doenst make him a bad seed.

metirish Jun 23 2006 02:09 PM

I've been reading this guys previous columns for the last half hour or so....it's a laugh. http://www.recordonline.com/sports/geffner.html

Elster88 Jun 23 2006 02:09 PM

Seriously, why mention what and how he's eating?

metirish Jun 23 2006 02:12 PM

read the puff piece of Jeter, a perfect way to end the work week...

Benjamin Grimm Jun 23 2006 02:16 PM

] sleepy-eyed look of his and while munching ever-so-slowly on a Reese's Peanut Butter Cup I don't know if it's intentional or not, but it sound a bit racist to me. Sleepy-eyed and slow-moving? Makes Lastings sound like a caricature from a minstrel show.

cleonjones11 Jun 23 2006 02:17 PM

sharpie wrote: I'm with Hillbilly. I'd rather see him out there than Eli Marrero. Eli Marrerro is basically Roadkill...Kinda the Feeling I'm getting about Billy Wagner

seawolf17 Jun 23 2006 02:18 PM

This Geffner jerkhole needs to make up his mind: ="TH-R Columnist Michael P. Geffner"]• Major-league talent Minor-League attitude - June 22, 2006 • 21-year-old Milledge has major-league 'tude - May 31, 2006 Well? Which is it? Jerkass. Nice mug shot, by the way. Did he get arrested for soliciting Jeter?

Benjamin Grimm Jun 23 2006 02:19 PM

And maybe it's just as well that my last post came at the bottom of the previous page.

metirish Jun 23 2006 02:25 PM

Please read this NOW......... http://www.recordonline.com/archive/2006/04/12/sports-mgjeter11-04-12.html ] Jeter could be 0-for-60 and it wouldn't mean a thing in a clutch situation. He'd be the most dangerous 0-for-60 guy in the history of the game.

Hillbilly Jun 23 2006 02:53 PM

http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/mediacenter/originals/midday/index.jsp In case you didn't see it. Notice how Lastings says please when ordering Chinese food. A bad kid with a bad 'tude would never do that.

Nymr83 Jun 23 2006 03:33 PM

Yancy Street Gang wrote: ] sleepy-eyed look of his and while munching ever-so-slowly on a Reese's Peanut Butter Cup I don't know if it's intentional or not, but it sound a bit racist to me. Sleepy-eyed and slow-moving? Makes Lastings sound like a caricature from a minstrel show. nothing to get worked up over. The writer is an IDIOT though: ]In fact, not only should the Mets bust this kid in rank, but do it with a firm, eyeball-to-eyeball warning. One final reprimand for good measure - if for no other reason than to break this kid's ego a bit. Tell him in no uncertain terms that he'd better learn to play and act like a major-leaguer in the future or be prepared to go back to the minors again and again. Yeah break that ego! we don't want anyone playing with enthusiasm or having fun! look what happened to the Griffey kid who used to smile all the time...

OlerudOwned Jun 23 2006 03:57 PM

Hillbilly wrote: http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/mediacenter/originals/midday/index.jsp In case you didn't see it. Notice how Lastings says please when ordering Chinese food. A bad kid with a bad 'tude would never do that. Holy crap! Phife Dawg has his own segment.

metsmarathon Jun 23 2006 08:48 PM

from the video... "milledge people" awesome. (i need to watch me some more mets games so i can see thnig like this real-time.)