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Is anyone's initial Soler enthusiasm dampened?

old original jb May 31 2006 07:35 AM

I know I should go for a better sample size, but Soler's performance last night was like a bucket full of cold water. More disappointing than the loss itself.

metirish May 31 2006 07:50 AM

Let's give him more than two starts at least, as Keith pointed out he seems very tough on himself, my enthusiasm has not been curbed.

sharpie May 31 2006 07:53 AM

He still looked better than Jeremi Gonzalez or Jose Lima.

RealityChuck May 31 2006 07:58 AM

Good point, sharpie. I'm a little less enthusiastic, but it's still too early to draw any major conclusions.

DocTee May 31 2006 08:03 AM

He's essentially a number five starter now-- let's judge him by back-of-the rotation standards.

Johnny Dickshot May 31 2006 08:10 AM

CAHNfident he'll get it together. Young starters get cuffed around almost without exception.

Hillbilly May 31 2006 08:46 AM

I'm still nice and dry. But I understand that he may not be the final piece to this year’s rotation. My enthusiasm is buoyed by the approach that management is taking – meaning I’d rather see Soler than sticking with guys that haven’t gotten it done. They seem like they learned something after sticking with Kaz Ishii for far too long last season. I am partial to Soler. I think he has good stuff and would like to see him settle in and use it.

Edgy DC May 31 2006 08:50 AM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on May 31 2006 09:31 AM

It was pretty interesting to have Omar Minaya in the booth at the time Alain was melting down yesterday. They kept the conversation with him to, "What does his response tell you?" and "What do you look for in a young pitcher here?" instead of "So, is it back to the drawing board?" Omar uses a lot of "Know-wha'-I-mean?"s

Farmer Ted May 31 2006 09:25 AM

The proper call gets made on that steal attempt in the first and it's a different ballgame. Watching his facial expressions and mannerisms leads me to believe that a therapist needs to be in the dugout at all times. Soler gets rattled as easy as Oil Can Boyd did. Nice bunt and 10-pitch at bat, though.

TheOldMole May 31 2006 09:28 AM

I always figure if a rookie pitcher has one bad start, you should cut him.

Edgy DC May 31 2006 09:33 AM

I thought he was angry with himself yesterday, which (assuming, for the rest of this post, that I'm correct) tells me he beileves he's a better pticher than that.

Willets Point May 31 2006 09:34 AM

TheOldMole wrote: I always figure if a rookie pitcher has one bad start, you should cut him. Nah, give him at least 2 bad starts.

Vic Sage May 31 2006 11:00 AM

my Soler enthusiasm was originally dampened back when it was reported that, even during his recent success at AAA, his fastball couldn't break 90 mph. "lack of stuff" is a great enthusiasm dampener.

holychicken May 31 2006 01:55 PM

He better get his freakin act together! I have my reputation on this board riding on the fact that he is going to win 20 games this year! But seriously, last night sucked, however, I thought his actual pitches looked pretty good, he just lacked control and was overly emotional. I hope the former was the result of the latter and, in a start or two, both will go away. So, he shattered my enthusiam about the fact that he is going to be a 20 game winner, but I am still enthusiatic (or delusional, can't decide) that he can be a solid back end of the rotation type of guy.

Rockin' Doc Jun 05 2006 10:22 AM

We should know more after tonight.

MFS62 Jun 12 2006 10:03 AM

Bump. Opinions change with time? Later

sharpie Jun 12 2006 10:24 AM

My opinion was that he was better than Jeremi Gonzalez and Jose Lima and I'm sticking with that. I'll add that I think he's better than John Maine or Brian Bannister.

soupcan Jun 12 2006 10:29 AM

sharpie wrote: My opinion was that he was better than Jeremi Gonzalez and Jose Lima and I'm sticking with that. I'll add that I think he's better than John Maine or Brian Bannister. Complete game shutout? Yeah, I'll say.

smg58 Jun 12 2006 12:58 PM

You never want to get too harsh on a rookie after one bad outing or too excited after a good one, but the upside is quite obviously there to a degree that I don't think Bannister (and certainly not the others) has. I'd still like a few more starts to see what he can do consistently, but like everybody else I'm more optimistic now than I was a few days ago.

Vic Sage Jul 05 2006 10:05 AM

bump

Vic Sage Jul 05 2006 10:07 AM

yeah, my enthusiasm continues to be damper than a box of DEPENDS in a piss factory. and frankly i don't even know what that means...

MFS62 Jul 05 2006 10:12 AM

Vic Sage wrote: yeah, my enthusiasm continues to be damper than a box of DEPENDS in a piss factory. and frankly i don't even know what that means... But you painted a vivid word picture, Vic. LOL! Later

Centerfield Jul 05 2006 10:15 AM

I can't believe how much Soler was different than the scouting reports we read about him over the last few years. I remember reading that he had a fastball in the low 90's, a sharp splitter, and a good curve. I saw none of the splitter, a fastball that topped out at 87, 88...and a curve that couldn't be thrown for a strike. I spent most of his starts imploring him to throw strikes, and then immediately regretting it when I saw what batters did to his stuff when it was over the plate. I wish it were one of those things that he could go down and "get himself straight" in Norfolk. But unless getting himself straight means learning a slider or cutter, I don't see Soler being much more than what we saw.

Vic Sage Jul 05 2006 10:21 AM

while i'm generally an advocate of a pitcher "challenging" a hitter, in Soler's case, discretion may have been the better part of valor. His stuff was so crappy that i cringed everytime he threw a strike. Of course, i cringed when he failed to throw strikes, too... which was often. So, really, i spent a whole lot of time cringing when he was on the mound.

MFS62 Jul 05 2006 10:24 AM

Everyone take a deep breath. The guy has really thrown only anecdotal innings in the prior two years. He might be suffering from dead arm syndrome. Now that he's tasted the majors, he knows what he has to work on and can do it in a less pressure-filled environment. This isn't saying he'll be the next Luis Tiant. I still have hope he can be a productive 3-5 starter, but not the #1 or #2 originally projected. Later

metirish Jul 05 2006 10:27 AM

] He might be suffering from dead arm syndrome I thought you said last week that you were not a Doctor.....

MFS62 Jul 05 2006 10:31 AM

metirish wrote: ] He might be suffering from dead arm syndrome I thought you said last week that you were not a Doctor..... But my Jewish Mother always wanted me to be one. Later

Hillbilly Jul 05 2006 11:17 AM

What was up with the stories about his calf? Post sucking excuses? I'm a little concerned about his 'heart'. Let him learn to get ahead of hitters in AAA and see if he gets it together.

Centerfield Jul 05 2006 11:56 AM

="Hillbilly"]What was up with the stories about his calf? Post sucking excuses? Soler: I sucked because my calf hurts. Mets: Tell it to the doctors in Norfolk.

Frayed Knot Jul 05 2006 12:42 PM

]I still have hope he can be a productive 3-5 starter, but not the #1 or #2 originally projected. I don't recall him ever being projected as a #1 or #2 -- at least not by anyone with the club.

Nymr83 Jul 05 2006 02:25 PM

yeah they were thinking 3 all along and i still think he can be that, he was good at times, and that curveball, when he did get it over with regularity, was amazing.