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IGT 06/24, Mets at Blue Jays

KC Jun 24 2006 03:16 PM

METS Reyes SS Lo Duca C Beltran DH Delgado 1B Wright 3B Valentin 2B Nady RF Chavez CF Milledge LF Hernandez P (4-6, 5.23) =cyan]JAYS Rios RF Catalanotto LF Well CF Glaus 3B Overbay 1B Zaun C Hinske DH Hill SS Adams 2B Halladay (8-2, 2.94)

Gwreck Jun 24 2006 03:21 PM

I guess giving Beltran the DH spot is the closest thing he'll get to a day off. He's started every game since returning from the injury on April 29. If not for that, it'd just be stupid to not have Nady the DH otherwise (defensive considerations).

KC Jun 24 2006 03:29 PM

I guess. I'm sure Delgado wants to play all three in Toronto and will DH tomorrow and Carlos will be back in CF with the early start time.

Hillbilly Jun 24 2006 03:34 PM

Gwreck wrote: I guess giving Beltran the DH spot is the closest thing he'll get to a day off. He's started every game since returning from the injury on April 29. If not for that, it'd just be stupid to not have Nady the DH otherwise (defensive considerations). Williejust called it 'a half an off day" for Beltran.

Nymr83 Jun 24 2006 03:36 PM

DHing is a great day off for NL players in interleague, were i the manager i'd have let Beltran, Delgado, and Wright each get a day at DH.

Edgy DC Jun 24 2006 03:40 PM

There are other parks.

Nymr83 Jun 24 2006 03:43 PM

yes there are, and i'd DH them 1 game each in those parks as well. these are like free offdays, i'll never understand why the Mets didnt give Piazza ALL of the DH games when they had the opportunity.

TransMonk Jun 24 2006 04:08 PM

Arroyo and Webb are awesome ace pitchers that we've faced lately, but I think Halladay may be the toughest ace we've faced yet. Hopefully, I'm proven wrong.

KC Jun 24 2006 04:08 PM

Ny: i'll never understand why the Mets didnt give Piazza ALL of the DH games when they had the opportunity. Probably because they were pulling the wool over our eyes thinking that we all didn't see that he should have been traded earlier in his contract and that he was an ineffective catcher six days a week ... or something. (gosh, I can be sarcastic)

ScarletKnight41 Jun 24 2006 04:12 PM

Reyes leads off with an infield single and steals second, but gets thrown out at third after LoDuca grounded out. Ugh!

Hillbilly Jun 24 2006 04:12 PM

Radio guys say Jose was save.

GYC Jun 24 2006 04:14 PM

Hillbilly wrote: Radio guys say Jose was save. He was.

KC Jun 24 2006 04:16 PM

He was easily safe ... I only buy the ball beat the runner stuff when it works for my advantage.

ScarletKnight41 Jun 24 2006 04:17 PM

Meanwhile, Rios leads off against El Duque with a double :(

Hillbilly Jun 24 2006 04:25 PM

El Duque works out of it.

Hillbilly Jun 24 2006 04:33 PM

Delgado pulls a Payton and misses the 2nd base bag on the way back to 1st after the long fly ball off of JV's bat.

ScarletKnight41 Jun 24 2006 04:42 PM

El Duque has just hit his second batter of the second inning to load the bases. None out, one run already in.

ScarletKnight41 Jun 24 2006 04:49 PM

Crap! Reyes fails to make what would have been a spectacular catch, and now it's 3-0 Blue Jays :(

ScarletKnight41 Jun 24 2006 04:50 PM

And a 3-run homer by Vernon Wells makes it 6-0 Toronto in the second.

Nymr83 Jun 24 2006 04:52 PM

el duque has been warned, along with both benches. wouldn't it be nice if Halladay gets tossed for nothing next inning?

TransMonk Jun 24 2006 04:52 PM

Screw the "day off" for Beltran, pull a Bobby V and send in the clowns.

KC Jun 24 2006 04:58 PM

Holy Canoli! 6-sniffle and Oherndez was tossed? What did I miss?

ScarletKnight41 Jun 24 2006 04:58 PM

El Duque hasn't been warned - he's been ejected. It's Darren Oliver time. This means that they're going to have to DL Sanchez and bring up another reliever for tomorrow.

Nymr83 Jun 24 2006 04:59 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jun 24 2006 05:01 PM

el duque has NOT been ejected, he's been forced out of the game because Willie was charged with making a 2nd trip to the mound after stepping over the 1st base line when he came out to argue. edit- this is info is from the radio anouncers who heard it from Jay Horowitz.

ScarletKnight41 Jun 24 2006 05:00 PM

KC wrote: Holy Canoli! 6-sniffle and Oherndez was tossed? What did I miss? He threw a pitch high and inside to Glaus after the 3-run homer. It's not like he could even find the side of a friggin' barn today. Sheesh!

ScarletKnight41 Jun 24 2006 05:02 PM

A flyout ends this ridiculous inning.

MFS62 Jun 24 2006 05:05 PM

Half full view: I'd rather the streak end this way - giving up a lot of runs when Halliday is on the mound. Let them use up all those runs today. Later

KC Jun 24 2006 05:10 PM

MFS: Let them use up all those runs today. Glass Full View: Screw that, let's score one more than they do - the Phils just lost again with a walk off by you know who ... boot to the jugular. Lets Go Mets

Frayed Knot Jun 24 2006 05:11 PM

Well this isn't starrting well. I agree that if you're not gonna pitch it's good to do it on a day when you're getting stifled by a top pitcher ... it's just that we're actually getting baserunners off of Halladay but are wasting them all with stupid baserunning (and/or bad calls).

ScarletKnight41 Jun 24 2006 05:26 PM

Vernon Wells misplays a David Wright fly into an RBI triple, then Wright scores on Valentin's groundout. It's now 6-2 Toronto.

KC Jun 24 2006 05:30 PM

Got 'em right where we want 'em ... Chip away Chip away at the stone And I won't stop until your love is my very own Chip away That's what I'm gonna do Sweet little mama I wanna get next to you

ScarletKnight41 Jun 24 2006 05:32 PM

D-Dad was saying the same thing, Kase.

Nymr83 Jun 24 2006 05:32 PM

Reyes error lets the leadoff man on, lets see if Oliver can get out of it.

KC Jun 24 2006 05:44 PM

5-3 after four and a half ... Reyes triples and Castro plunks him in. Chip away That's what I'm gonna do

Johnny Dickshot Jun 24 2006 05:47 PM

Was finishing up watching the soccer. LoDuca's out with an injury too? (I'm not gonna say "good" but WTF with a daygame after a nitegame where PLo was banged up in the last inning was in there in the first place? Oh yeah, I know. Grounding out to the left side with Reyes on second, dagnabbit.

Johnny Dickshot Jun 24 2006 05:51 PM

Darren Oliver, guzzling Schaefer by the minute

Frayed Knot Jun 24 2006 05:55 PM

LoDuca apparently aggravated the thumb injury and was taken out for ye olde precautionary reasons. I guess tomorrow's start at Noon is the real Day-game-after-night-game as opposed to today's 4:00 sorta day game.

Johnny Dickshot Jun 24 2006 05:56 PM

LoDuca is responsible for a lot of aggravation lately.

GYC Jun 24 2006 05:59 PM

Pinched nerve for Duaner... just a stinger.

Frayed Knot Jun 24 2006 06:01 PM

GYC wrote: Pinched nerve for Duaner... just a stinger. And there was much rejoicing (Yaaaaaay)

KC Jun 24 2006 06:10 PM

Still 6-3 ... C'e na luna mezza'o mare Mammamiam'ho maritari Figlia mia a cu t'ho dare? Mama mia penscitu Se ti piglia lu pisciaolo Tssu vai, issu viene Sempre lu peace a muno tiene Se c'in gappa la fantasia ti pomperia figgiuzza mia La lario la pisci fritt'e baccala Oeh cumpa, na pompina ci haggia catta Cenata o cumma ca mi voglio marita Dammi na vagliotta ca mi voglio marita HEY

Nymr83 Jun 24 2006 06:13 PM

7-3 :/

Nymr83 Jun 24 2006 06:26 PM

7-4 on Delgado' double, runners on 2nd and 3rd for David Wright, and they won't let the lefty face him.

KC Jun 24 2006 06:27 PM

Chip away

Johnny Dickshot Jun 24 2006 06:28 PM

Nymr83 Jun 24 2006 06:35 PM

Speier gets Valentin and Nady with the bases loaded and the Mets settle for 1 run.

KC Jun 24 2006 06:35 PM

I shouldna posted Mary ... she's a bad luck. Mets leave the bases loaded. Ug.

Nymr83 Jun 24 2006 06:49 PM

oh well.

KC Jun 24 2006 06:49 PM

B J Ryan doesn't suck ... Mets lose 7-4.

SteveJRogers Jun 24 2006 06:50 PM

Can't wait for the first of the "We should have signed THAT GUY instead of OUR guy!" threads with Ryan vs Wagner!

Johnny Dickshot Jun 24 2006 06:55 PM

Sensible people were making that argument in December.

SteveJRogers Jun 24 2006 07:05 PM

Johnny Dickshot wrote: Sensible people were making that argument in December. I know, but a situation like right now is when the irrationals start parrotting things they didn't quite grasp during the offseason, and usually do it with unjustifiable arguments like "Did ya see how he shut us down yesterday! Wagner wouldn't have done that!"

Nymr83 Jun 24 2006 08:08 PM

the numbers supported Wagner over Ryan in the offseason. even now, Wagner looks good: 2.60 ERA, 14/18 SV, 34.2 IP, 24 H, 13R/10ER, 3 HR, 15 BB, 43K. these aren't numbers anything to worry about, except maybe the walks. the 4 blown saves: April 5th- a solo shot April 26th- unearned runs May 3rd- 2 hits, 2 walks, 2 runs June 21st- 2 hits, 2 walks, 2 runs he's doing fine.

MFS62 Jun 25 2006 08:22 AM

I know "clutch" hitting might not actually exist, but Nady's splits are mind-boggling pretty much his numbers decline quite steadily as the importance of the ab increases. the sample size is large enough that random variance alone can't really explain these results Nobody on: .316 Runners on: .202 RISP: .170 runners on w/2 out: .150 RISP w/2 out: .077 bases loaded: .000 I don't think that counts today either and he was 2-3 with nobody on and 0-1 with runners on, RISP, runners on w/2 out, RISP w/2 out and bases loaded. Later

Elster88 Jun 25 2006 10:20 AM

MFS62 wrote: the sample size is large enough that random variance alone can't really explain these results I disagree. _______________ Didn't the Aaron Rowand play happen with the bases loaded?

MFS62 Jun 25 2006 10:41 AM

Elster88 wrote: ="MFS62"]the sample size is large enough that random variance alone can't really explain these results I disagree. Fair enough. Then forget the numbers. Watch him play. He gags. Big time. He makes A-Rod look like the player Derek Jeter's fans think Jeter is. Later

Nymr83 Jun 25 2006 10:51 AM

i disagree as well, he has only 49 ABs with runners in scoring position this year. I'm having trouble finding numbers for previous years (lots of stuff won't load on my fuckin modem) but until i see more than a 50 AB sample size i won't even entertain the possibility that Nady "isn't clutch" if such a thing even exists.

Frayed Knot Jun 25 2006 10:53 AM

That he's been lousy hitting w/runners on and such isn't in question. No matter what the sample size it's all there in black and white. The mistake would be in thinking that the fact that [u:bcf53b4d5d]he hasn't[/u:bcf53b4d5d] is evidence that [u:bcf53b4d5d]he can't[/u:bcf53b4d5d] and therefore proof that [u:bcf53b4d5d]he won't[/u:bcf53b4d5d] in the future.

MFS62 Jun 25 2006 10:55 AM

Frayed Knot wrote: That he's been lousy hitting w/runners on and such isn't in question. No matter what the sample size it's all there in black and white. The mistake would be in thinking that the fact that he hasn't is evidence that he can't and therefore proof that he won't in the future. I never claimed any such thing. All I did was mention the numbers and performance to date. I don't like to do projections or predictions. There's no future in in. Later Edit: spelling cleanup

Nymr83 Jun 25 2006 10:59 AM

Then you shouldn't have said: ]the sample size is large enough that random variance alone can't really explain these results I'm not arguing that nady hasn't "come through" as often as he should in those spots, but I think "random variance" is a pretty darn good explanation for such a small sample size.

Frayed Knot Jun 25 2006 11:12 AM

btw, this talk of "clutch" stats and MFS referencing the Jeter/ARod debate reminds me that Francesa was spouting the; 'Jeter lifts his game in the post-season while ARod's game shrinks', line ... even going as far to say that Jeter's stats alone aren't enough to label him a great player except for the fact that he becomes so much better in the post-season. So, curious guy that I am, I did something really radical; I looked things up: Jeter reg season: .314/.386/.461 Jeter postseason: .307/.379/.463 (462 ABs) ARod reg season: .307/.385/.577 ARod postseason: .305/.393/.534 (118 ABs)

MFS62 Jun 25 2006 11:21 AM

But, as FK suggested, I didn't use that to extrapolate it into either absolutes of "he can't" or "he won't". Well, maybe just a tinge of "he hasn't so far" and untl he reverses this trend, I don't have much confidence he will be able to do it in the future. I hope I'm wrong and I left the door open for him to prove me wrong. But the guy got struck out by a journeyman pitcher on an 86 mph fastball over the middle of the plate and just below the belt. Good hitters kill that pitch. Mediocre hitters hit it somewhere. Bad hitters get a piece of it and maybe fould it off or even get a bloop hit. He missed it by four inches (swung above it)and I couldn't estimate how many MPH in bat speed from the camera angle. Right now I'd just rather have someone else up in crucial situations. Later

Nymr83 Jun 25 2006 11:49 AM

Frayed Knot wrote: Jeter reg season: .314/.386/.461 Jeter postseason: .307/.379/.463 (462 ABs) ARod reg season: .307/.385/.577 ARod postseason: .305/.393/.534 (118 ABs) shutup FK, you obviously haven't had your big gulp of yankee kool aid today.