Master Index of Archived Threads


The Enemy of Our Enemy is Our Friend

Willets Point Jun 26 2006 09:52 PM

(But not for the next three nights). The Mets and their fans know all about hating the Yankees. Constantly competing for fans, headlines, players and occasionally on the diamond, the Yankees (and their ungodly success) are a constant thorn in the Mets side. Believe it or not, there are people who hate the Yankees more than we do. Meet the Red Sox. Based in the capitol of Massachusetts, the Olde Towne team are beloved throughout New England (well at least 51/2 of New England's 6 states, the other half of Connecticut oriented toward New York) and have an extended fan base across the country known as Red Sox Nation. One of the original American League franchises, the Red Sox had considerable success in their early days winning five of the first fifteen World Series championships including the ignaugral World Series against Pittsburgh. Their success notoriously ended after 1918 and their dismal play eventually was attributed to a curse brought on the team for selling the contract of Babe Ruth to the Yankees in 1919. There was never a curse of course, instead just bad management and blatant racism when the team refused to sign prominent Negro League stars and in fact became the last major league franchise to integrate in 1958. On the other hand the Red Sox, beginning with their "Impossible Dream" season in 1967, have been one of the most consistently strong teams in baseball, although only had numerous second-place finishes and numerous heartbreaking fact-stranger-than-fiction post-season losses most famously in 1975, 1978, 1986, and 2003 to show for it. The Red Sox finally ended their 86-year drought by sweeping the St. Louis Cardinals in the 2004 World Series after coming back from a 3-0 deficit in the ALCS to the hated Yankees. These days, Red Sox Nation is still celebrating the 2004 victory while coming to terms with an anemic end-of-season performance in 2005 and quick exit from the playoffs at the hands of eventual champs the Chicago White Sox. The Red Sox are currently 45-28 at the top of the AL East with a three game lead on the Yankees. They are in the midst of a nine game winning streak and have a 24-10 record at home, so the Mets face quite a challenge in the next three games. Mets versus Red Sox The Mets first met the Red Sox in 1986 when the two teams played in an exciting seven game World Series championship. The Red Sox famously came within one out of clinching the series victory with a 5-3 lead in the 10th inning of Game 6. The Mets ended up winning on three consecutive 2-out singles, a wild pitch, and an infamous error by Red Sox 1st baseman Bill Buckner, who has unfairly been singled out as the goat of the Red Sox World Series loss ever since. In regular season play the Mets and Red Sox met fifteen times previously between 1997-2001 including the first ever interleague game for both teams on June 13, 1997. The Mets lead the all-time series 8-7, with a 3-3 record in Fenway Park. The most memorable matchup probably came on June 5, 1998 when despite losing Mike Piazza after he was hit by a pitch on the hand, the Mets were able to tee off four home runs in a 9-2 victory of the then Red Sox ace Pedro Martinez. Who are these Red Sox? C – Jason Varitek HR-7, RBI-34, OBP-.340, SLG.-.408, AVG.-.251 Fun fact: Varitek played two seasons in the Cape Cod League with the Hyannis Mets. 1B – Kevin Youklis HR-9, RBI-37, OBP-.426, SLG.-.498, AVG.-.315 Fun fact: Fans of Youk spawned a Sons of Sam Horn take off, the Daughters of Kevin Youklis website. 2B - Mark Loretta HR-2, RBI-31, OBP.-.357, SLG.-.393, AVG.-.317 Fun fact: When Loretta has a lead off first and the pitcher tries to pick him off, it’s fun to shout “Get back Loretta!” 3B – Mike Lowell HR-8, RBI-39, OBP-.365, SLG.-.504, AVG.-,308 Fun fact: Lowell is a practitioner of the hidden ball trick, executing the play against Brian Schneider in 2004 and Luis Terrero in 2005, the only two times the play has been pulled off successfully in the 2000’s. SS – Alex Gonzalez HR-3, RBI-20, OBP-.309, SLG.-.351, AVG.-.262 Fun fact: Gonzalez hit a walk off homerun to win Game Four of the 2003 World Series for the Marlins against the Yankees. LF – Manny Ramirez HR-20, RBI-51, OBP-.433, SLG.-.601, AVG.-.298 Fun fact: When asked about what he does outside of baseball, "I know this might sound funny, but I play baseball. Me and [Jason] Varitek play a bit in the training field. Can't get our minds off it." CF – Coco Crisp HR-3, RBI-13, OBP-.322, SLG.-406, AVG.-.283 Fun fact: The Boston Globe reported that Crisp's grandmother called him "Co" when he was a child, and his two siblings nicknamed him "Coco" after the cereal, Cocoa Krispies. RF – Trot Nixon HR-6, RBI-39, OBP-.430, SLG.-.489, AVG.-.326 Fun fact: While on the disabled list last season, Nixon argued with the umpires in a game where they ruled a Gabe Kapler hit off the top of the Green Monster to be a double instead of a home run. He was ejected from the game, a rare feat for a player on the disabled list. DH – David Ortiz HR-22, RBI-68, OBP-.377, SLG.-.550, AVG.-.266 Fun fact: Ortiz hit 20 home runs in the 2005 season which either tied or gave Boston a lead. Eight of these came in the seventh inning or later. Probable Pitchers June 27-Alay Soler, RHP (2-1, 3.32) v. Jon Lester, LHP (2-0, 2.76) Fun fact: This will be Lester’s fourth career start. He’s allowed only one run in each of his two previous two starts. Last Wednesday, Lester struck out 10, allowed one hit and two walks against Washington. June 28 – Pedro Martinez, RHP (7-3, 3.01) v. Josh Beckett, RHP (9-3, 4.84) Fun fact: Beckett pitched eight masterful innings in Boston's 10-2 pounding of Philadelphia on Friday evening. June 29 – Tom Glavine, LHP (11-2, 3.33) v. Curt Schilling, RHP (9-2, 3.61) Fun fact: Schilling resides in Medfield, MA in a house formerly home to Patriots’ quarterback Drew Bledsoe. Former Red Sox on the Mets Chad Bradford Cliff Floyd Pedro Martinez Darren Oliver Ex-Mets on the Red Sox None Meet the fans of Red Sox Nation Sons of Sam Horn Boston Dirt Dogs

SteveJRogers Jun 26 2006 10:16 PM

Nice KTE! From the looks of the Dirt Dogs site, doesn't look like Pedro will get a warm reception. Anyone know how Millar's reception was when he returned with the Orioles? Funny because Michael Kay was saying on his radio show that "It will be different for Pedro than with Damon because he went to the Mets, not the Yankees." Apparantly Kay never read FAFIF's review of Game Six, or realize that its ALL NEW YORK that Boston (and the rest of this country) hates! It really is like when casual or non fans would ask Yankee haters (no matter WHO they rooted for) why they said they couldn't root for the Yankees in the 2001 World Series. Please... (And I'm not even getting into the semantics of why should a Yankee WS championship HELP someone who hates baseball HEAL after 9/11)

ScarletKnight41 Jun 26 2006 10:18 PM

Nicely done Willets. Damn - mine is really going to suck in comparison :(

Edgy DC Jun 26 2006 10:19 PM

Wunnerful.

SteveJRogers Jun 26 2006 10:26 PM

Just to add a "Then again", then again, Kay still wonders why Sox faithfull treat Roger Clemens the way they do so...

Frayed Knot Jun 26 2006 10:36 PM

Really fun fact: While we can root for the Yanx to fare poorly in their mid-week series because the Braves are no threat to us at this point, MFY fans HAVE TO pull for us because they're lagging behind Boston.

Mr. Zero Jun 26 2006 10:38 PM

very impressive. hadn't realized the sox were on such a roll. should be a fun series, at least.

Gwreck Jun 27 2006 12:53 AM

Coming into this series we should have a bullpen advantage, with Mssrs. Heilman, Feliciano and Sanchez (if available) all particularly well-rested. Hopefully we will get into the Sox 'pen, what with the starters they're throwing. Excellent KTE, many thanks.

MFS62 Jun 27 2006 06:34 AM

Fun KTE. Good Job. The most un-fun of fact of all is about Trot Nixon. If he: judges Captain Clutch's fly ball properly, then takes the correct route to it, rather than spinning like a top; and then catches it, then: The Yanks don't score Pedro smokes the victory cigar after leaving the game with a 5-2 lead the Sox knock the Yanks out of the playoffs The Sox don't change managers yadda yadda yadda (the proper usage - three yaddas). And with that, the SOSH agreed after that fateful series. They didn't blame "The Curse" They didn't blame Pedro They didn't blame the manager They didn't blame the relievers. Many of them blamed Trot for turning BoSox victory into Yankee victory. And for that reason, he must be the one Sox player Mets fans must revile. Forever. Later

Johnny Dickshot Jun 27 2006 07:18 AM

]Fun fact: Lowell is a practitioner of the hidden ball trick, executing the play against Brian Schneider in 2004 and Luis Terrero in 2005, the only two times the play has been pulled off successfully in the 2000’s. That IS a Fun Fact. It's my understanding that Trot Nixon grew up a big Mets fan, having been caught up in the 86 series as a kid. He also called Arod a "clown" so he's OK in my book. Great point about the MFY fans' conflict. Somehow, we win no matter what. Really looking forward to the Lester-Soler matchup 2-nite. I like X-Man, Wright and Valentin to poke at the Monster, and Delgado/Beltran to be attracted to the RF porch.

Elster88 Jun 27 2006 09:06 AM

Excellent KTE.

Elster88 Jun 27 2006 09:06 AM

Recent Bullpen Usage (SoSH): ]As for the pitchers used Monday, their pitch counts were: Seanez - 9 Lopez - 15 Timlin - 20 Papelbon - 33 Tavarez - 22 Delcarmen - 30 Hansen - 10 On Saturday, the pitch counts were: Delcarmen - 5 Lopez - 4 Hansen - 14 Papelbon - 38

Elster88 Jun 27 2006 09:07 AM

="MFS62"]Fun KTE. Good Job. The most un-fun of fact of all is about Trot Nixon. If he: judges Captain Clutch's fly ball properly, then takes the correct route to it, rather than spinning like a top; and then catches it, then: The Yanks don't score Pedro smokes the victory cigar after leaving the game with a 5-2 lead the Sox knock the Yanks out of the playoffs The Sox don't change managers yadda yadda yadda (the proper usage - three yaddas). And with that, the SOSH agreed after that fateful series. They didn't blame "The Curse" They didn't blame Pedro They didn't blame the manager They didn't blame the relievers. Many of them blamed Trot for turning BoSox victory into Yankee victory. And for that reason, he must be the one Sox player Mets fans must revile. Forever. Later Red Sox fans always blame the manager. ALWAYS. And not just in 2003. ALWAYS.

Elster88 Jun 27 2006 09:12 AM Edited 2 time(s), most recently on Jun 27 2006 09:13 AM

Michael Kay is a moron. His beliefs and "thoughts" should bear no weight in anyone's mind. In fact, anyone who discusses him, other than to ridicule him, can be dismissed from Metfandom at any moment.

metirish Jun 27 2006 09:12 AM

Great KTE Willets, Mike Lowell for come back player of the year?... ] Really fun fact: While we can root for the Yanx to fare poorly in their mid-week series because the Braves are no threat to us at this point, MFY fans HAVE TO pull for us because they're lagging behind Boston. Hadn't thought of that, brilliant.

MFS62 Jun 27 2006 09:19 AM

Here's a "reverse". A try at a KTE found on the Sons of Sam Horn site about the Mets: http://sonsofsamhorn.net/index.php?showtopic=6453 Willets, yours was better. Much better. Later

Willets Point Jun 27 2006 09:25 AM

Can't argue with this part: ]David Wright – if Wright doesn’t win the MVP this year, it will be OK – because he will snag it in the future. One of the players in the game, Wright has been on fire this June – to the tune of .371/.429/.775 (1.204 OPS), 10 HR, 29 RBI, 20 R and 3 SB (in 22 games). As much as I hope he doesn’t torch the Red Sox, I’m excited to see him play live (other than Pujols, he’s probably my favorite non-Sox (or former Sox) player in baseball).

Elster88 Jun 27 2006 09:27 AM

MFS62 wrote: Here's a "reverse". A try at a KTE found on the Sons of Sam Horn site about the Mets: http://sonsofsamhorn.net/index.php?showtopic=6453 Willets, yours was better. Much better. Later I was just reading that. It wasn't bad. Just less fun and more numbers.

SteveJRogers Jun 27 2006 09:29 AM

Elster88 wrote: Michael Kay is a moron. His beliefs and "thoughts" should bear no weight in anyone's mind. In fact, anyone who discusses him, other than to ridicule him, can be dismissed from Metfandom at any moment. Good point, in fact the local 1050 shows were the only shows that seemed to care what kind of reaction Johnny Damon would get in terms of throwing out the topic for discussion. Just thought I'd throw that out only because the front page of the DirtDogs made it seem that Pedro is considered a major public enemy. Who knows, I haven't been surfing around the IRSC (Internet Red Sox Community) that much, or monitoring WEEI and the papers to know what the current majoritiy opinion is on Pedro, but NY is still hated by Boston, all teams, and yeah it does go back to 1986.

SteveJRogers Jun 27 2006 09:30 AM

By the way, speaking of 86, apparantly they are honoring the 20th anniversary of the 1986 American League Champions. No idea if Bill Buckner is on the invite list

MFS62 Jun 27 2006 09:34 AM

SteveJRogers wrote: By the way, speaking of 86, apparantly they are honoring the 20th anniversary of the 1986 American League Champions. No idea if Bill Buckner is on the invite list I heard that Bill Buckner will not be in attendance. Don't know if he was invited. Later

Willets Point Jun 27 2006 09:37 AM

Dan Shaugnessy writes about the event in Saluting the spirit of '86. ]Unfortunately, Buckner will not be at Fenway tonight. He's got a switch-hitting teenage son who's appearing in showcase games all over the country, hoping to draw interest from pro scouts or a major college program. ``I would love to have been there," Buckner said over the phone yesterday. ``Say hello to everybody for me, especially Walter [hitting coach Walt Hriniak] and Marty [Barrett]. I'll catch up with them on the golf course."

The Big O Jun 27 2006 09:39 AM

="Willets Point"]Can't argue with this part: ]David Wright – if Wright doesn’t win the MVP this year, it will be OK – because he will snag it in the future. One of the players in the game, Wright has been on fire this June – to the tune of .371/.429/.775 (1.204 OPS), 10 HR, 29 RBI, 20 R and 3 SB (in 22 games). As much as I hope he doesn’t torch the Red Sox, I’m excited to see him play live (other than Pujols, he’s probably my favorite non-Sox (or former Sox) player in baseball). David is undoubtedly one of the players in the game. And if he isn't, Willie'll have to answer for it.

metirish Jun 27 2006 09:53 AM

From Lee Jenkins in the Times... ] Few players in Red Sox history, from Ted Williams to Johnny Damon, have departed on amicable terms. But Martínez kept the loyalty of a couple key figures — Ortiz and Ramírez. The three Dominicans will be honored by the United Nations in a pregame ceremony Thursday for raising money to help rebuild a Dominican village that was nearly wiped out by a flood.

Yancy Street Gang Jun 27 2006 09:59 AM

I think I read that Buckner won't be there. He's been a good sport over the years about that error, but I think his tolerance has finally worn out.

Rotblatt Jun 27 2006 10:21 AM

Great KTE! I can't fucking wait for this series to start. This will be a true test of our team--more so than the Yankees, IMO, since we're too close to them to be at all impartial. If we can take 2 of 3, I'll be dancin'--this is one of the few teams I fear is capable of sweeping us.

Centerfield Jun 27 2006 10:28 AM

Better question would be whether Boggs would be there.

SteveJRogers Jun 27 2006 10:39 AM

Centerfield wrote: Better question would be whether Boggs would be there. Why wouldn't he? They soothed over relations. He's in the Hall with a B, they have strict rules for retired numbers so I don't know if 26 is on the wall

soupcan Jun 27 2006 10:55 AM

Thanks Willets, I feel well prepared now. Taking a JetBlue shuttle up to Logan this afternoon. Will be at The Fens tonight for the least glamorous matchup of the three. Excited as hell though. Any game at Fenway is a treat but a Mets / Red Sox dust-up is something to savor. Insignificant item: I'm hoping that the Mets will do this most-hallowed of ballparks proud and wear their road grays. I'd prefer we not look like a clown team when making an appearance against a storied team in a storied park..

metirish Jun 27 2006 11:42 AM

From Boston.com....just to update on Boggs. ] The Mets are for real at 47-28, with the best record in the National League and a 12-game lead over the Phils in the East. ``It's amazing, and it's kind of eerie that it could happen again, couldn't it?" said Wade Boggs, who was at Fenway last night for the 20th reunion of the Sox' 1986 team. ``The Red Sox and Mets have great teams. It's funny, 20 years later and to do that all over again. I hope it has a different ending." http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/articles/2006/06/27/putting_all_the_hype_in_type/

metirish Jun 28 2006 11:22 AM

I wonder if Nady plays tonight, he bruised his wrist in the game yesterday, if not then we should see Chavez in RF nad Valentin at 2nd.

TransMonk Jun 28 2006 11:28 AM

metirish wrote: I wonder if Nady plays tonight, he bruised his wrist in the game yesterday, if not then we should see Chavez in RF nad Valentin at 2nd. I'd doubt if Reyes plays short either, could be Woody again...although Jose has not been fully ruled out. May need to be a better than usual start for Pedro.

metirish Jun 28 2006 11:37 AM

This could be fun, SNY and NESN will swap game analysts for tonight's game, Jerry Remy will joining Gary and Keith while Ron goes to NESN. http://www.sny.tv/news/article.jsp?ymd=20060626&content_id=1404578&vkey=1

Elster88 Jun 28 2006 12:42 PM

The Red Sox are on a 14-game team errorless streak (as of last night's game). Baseball Tonight says the AL Record is 15, and the MLB record is 16.

metirish Jun 28 2006 02:41 PM

This is very cool.... http://www.newsday.com/sports/baseball/mets/ny-pedro-flash,0,1612295.flash

old original jb Jun 28 2006 04:18 PM

Speaking of KTE and Boston, which Cranepoolers are posters on SOSH? Under what handles?