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Let the Kids Speak Cliches or Speak Their Minds?

Elster88 Jun 21 2006 12:35 PM Edited 2 time(s), most recently on Jun 21 2006 02:30 PM

Two schools of thought here. Both make sense to me. 1) A young player should speak his mind. Say what comes from the heart, and don't worry about being politically correct. Leads to interesting interviews and lets the reader learn more about him, but at the same time a kid may say something dumb in the heat of an emotional moment and may offend people. 2) A player should go with the cliches until he learns how to give a good interview. The good part is that a kid learns his place and doesn't say anything dumb until he has more experience and seasoning in the bigs. The only bad part I see is that there is nothing good to read for a while. (and the media doesn't get to write easy articles). I was in Camp 1, as seen in other threads, but after reading both I realize there isn't much downside to Camp 2, except that I'd have to read about more interesting players than the "boring, cliche-spouting rookie". Of course it's not as black and white as that, but that's a good start on the subject.

Elster88 Jun 21 2006 12:36 PM

Milledge is a good example of a practical application of this question, and Yancy mentioned David Cone, circa 1988.

Elster88 Jun 21 2006 12:38 PM

Coney was just on M&MD last week and this topic came up. He said it taught him a valuable lesson that nothing is really off the record.

MFS62 Jun 21 2006 12:41 PM

David Wright has cliche-speak down to a science. "You have learned well, young Skywalker". Later

metirish Jun 21 2006 12:41 PM

How lame is it that I find it refreshing that Milledge didn't give the cliched answers?, I think we all realize that for his own good he'd be better served talking like David Wright(example) and saying all the right things. Jose Guillen is a good example of a player that really says what is on his mind.

Hillbilly Jun 21 2006 12:41 PM

What did Lastings say that was 'bad'?

Benjamin Grimm Jun 21 2006 12:44 PM

Can anybody with keys to the Wayback Machine dig up that 1988 David Cone column? I'd be interested in reading it again with 18 years of hindsight. I don't buy his, "don't assume anything's off the record" excuse, by the way. The column had his name on it. He should have insisted that he have the right to review the column before publication. His name, his responsibility.

metirish Jun 21 2006 12:44 PM

Nothing bad, it just wasn't cliched BS.

Hillbilly Jun 21 2006 12:48 PM

metirish wrote: Nothing bad, it just wasn't cliched BS. Thanks, so what cliched respones would have been 'better'? In other words, what would have you (those that say he needs to keep his mouth close or use cliches) liked him to say?

Elster88 Jun 21 2006 12:49 PM

Yancy Street Gang wrote: I don't buy his, "don't assume anything's off the record" excuse, by the way. The column had his name on it. He should have insisted that he have the right to review the column before publication. His name, his responsibility. I'm paraphrasing that a little bit by the way. I think the bottom line of what he said on M&MD was that he didn't think it would get into the paper. I can't remember exactly.

Edgy DC Jun 21 2006 12:57 PM

I don't think political correctness is the issue.

Elster88 Jun 21 2006 01:00 PM

What words would work better for you?

Edgy DC Jun 21 2006 01:03 PM

Perhaps "on message."

metirish Jun 21 2006 01:05 PM

] Thanks, so what cliched respones would have been 'better'? In other words, what would have you (those that say he needs to keep his mouth close or use cliches) liked him to say? I have no problem with him saying what he feels, I was trying to answer the question posed by Elster.

SteveJRogers Jun 21 2006 01:07 PM

Hillbilly wrote: ="metirish"]Nothing bad, it just wasn't cliched BS. Thanks, so what cliched respones would have been 'better'? In other words, what would have you (those that say he needs to keep his mouth close or use cliches) liked him to say? Pretty much intimated that the Dodgers didn't have much of a major league squad. There really is no cliched BS to get around it as history has judged that Dodger team as one of the weakest to ever compete in postseason play, let alone win the World Series. Put it this way, they made the 99-00 Mets look like the 1986 Mets! Probably the only the Cone should have said was the canned "Well they are still a major league division winning ball club, they have great grinders like Gibson and Sciocisa and Hershiser had a hell of a year"

Hillbilly Jun 21 2006 01:08 PM

I know. Some folks just seem to be going out of their way to demonstrate that his a bad dude. I don't get it.

Elster88 Jun 21 2006 01:10 PM

NOTE: I'm not saying Milledge said anything bad. I spun this question from the Lastings Milledge thread where a couple of posters said something along the lines of that they'd rather Lastings learn some cliches and just shut up when asked if he would rather stay in the bigs. I'm paraphrasing there obviously.

ScarletKnight41 Jun 21 2006 01:11 PM

I don't think he's a bad dude. I do, however, think that he could use a little more seasoning before being in the majors for good.

TransMonk Jun 21 2006 01:14 PM

I guess I just don't care what is on Milledge's mind. He is 21 years old, he has 3 weeks of MLB experience, his stats have been decent but not awesome...his opinion on whether not he should remain on the ML roster doesn't matter. There are people who have years of ML experience who come together and make these decisions as a group based on what's in the best interest of the team and the player.

Hillbilly Jun 21 2006 02:22 PM

All true, but he was asked about it by a reporter and basically said I don’t want to go down, I’ll sit if I have to, and if you give me a chance, I’ll tear it up. Lastings will never come across like David Wright. They are different players with different upbringings. I don’t think LM has a lot to learn at AAA at this point, and it’s just a matter of a spot opening up for him and he’ll be up to stay. Hopefully he’ll back up his youthful confidence with his performance on the field.

TransMonk Jun 21 2006 02:34 PM

Hillbilly wrote: All true, but he was asked about it by a reporter and basically said I don’t want to go down, I’ll sit if I have to, and if you give me a chance, I’ll tear it up. Lastings will never come across like David Wright. They are different players with different upbringings. I don’t think LM has a lot to learn at AAA at this point, and it’s just a matter of a spot opening up for him and he’ll be up to stay. Hopefully he’ll back up his youthful confidence with his performance on the field. I can live with that...and I don't really want to beat up on LM. In the end, I don't think he'll learn any more at AAA either, but IMO it would be better for him to play everyday than sit on the bench at any level. And hey, if he goes on a tear and is helping the team, I would love for him to be in NY.

Zvon Jun 21 2006 04:29 PM

One thing Ive noticed about Milledge is that he kinda does both. He'll balance things out by saying a cliche thing and then adding what he really thinks, or vica versa. I like that a kid his age has the presence of mind to know what he should say, and say it, then also try to get it in there what he wants to say. His own little P.R. work. With one sentence he sounds cocky and bush, then in another sentence he sounds humble and respectful. (lemme pre-apoligize for using the words cocky and bush in that sentence^ ;)) It reflects his own personality and self-confidence. And I like that. I just hope he can walk that walk.

silverdsl Jun 22 2006 11:04 AM

I don't know what comments Milledge said, but in general I would mostly rather the players speak their minds. I would like to know what a player genuinely thinks, rather than what they think the fans, media, their team, PR person, etc... want them to say or want to hear. However, that doesn't mean that I think a player should feel free to rip teammates, other teams, MLB, etc... I think they need to have some common sense about being respectful of others and how to get one's point across without offending anyone. Though David Cone goofed up early on, I think he eventually became quite masterful in the way he handled speaking his mind to the media and elsewhere.

metirish Jun 22 2006 11:31 AM

I don't want to start a new theard as I think this fits here just fine...Ozzie Guillen really needs to shut his mouth, it's all fine that he's a great quote and speaks his mind but he has gone overboard with his "fag" remark about Chicago sports columnist Jay Mariotti. http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/5718414

Elster88 Jun 22 2006 12:45 PM

Guillen can't handle Chicago. Is Mariotti one of the morons that I saw one of the three times I watched Around the Horn?

metirish Jun 22 2006 12:56 PM

Yeah he's on that show all the time and he's a bollox, but Guillen is making news for all the wrong reasons.

ScarletKnight41 Jun 22 2006 01:27 PM

[url=http://davidwright.mlblogs.com/]Here's the other end of the spectrum[/url] I love Mr. Wright, but I'll admit that this is banal. OTOH, there's something to be said for having a player put together a kid-friendly column like that.

Elster88 Jun 22 2006 01:29 PM

It might just be my adoration for the guy, but I had thought that most of his TV interviews were a little more than the average cliche-filled norm. I'll have to keep a less-biased eye on the next one.

ScarletKnight41 Jun 22 2006 01:31 PM

I think the thing is that, for better or worse, Mr. Wright believes the cliches. He's living it, so it doesn't sound phony.

Elster88 Jun 23 2006 01:58 PM

More defense for Wright or any baseball player really: Often times the questions are so stupid that there really is no deep, insightful answer possible. After the homestand, I heard a snippet of Wright on the radio, responding to the question, How do you feel about going 3-4 after such a hot stretch on the road and what went wrong? Paraphrasing his response: Sometimes you're going to have stretches like that. Of course we wish we did better, you always want to win more than you lose. We're happy we went out on a high note by winning the last game of the series. We're going to try and build on that tomorrow and go from there. Every line in there is a cliche, but every line is true. When some moron reporter asks, "Why did you go 3-4" what is the guy supposed to answer? "Uh, we didn't hit as well and we didn't pitch as well. You're not going to win 6 of 7 every time out. Dumbass."

OlerudOwned Jun 26 2006 03:20 PM

http://baseballanalysts.com/archives/2006/06/war_stories.php Klapich with a take on today's PC-media relations vs. the looser days in the late 80s/early 90s.

Edgy DC Jun 26 2006 03:28 PM

Why is Klapish still promoting his 1993 career? What a clown.

OlerudOwned Jun 26 2006 07:20 PM

Edgy DC wrote: Why is Klapish still promoting his 1993 career? What a clown. So he can take advantage of the Great Testosterone-Challenged Sportswriters Debate that's emerged in the wake of the Mariotti/Guillen slapfight.

TransMonk Jul 01 2006 09:36 AM

Milledge on being sent down per Daily news: "I wanted to play," Milledge said while sitting next to GM Omar Minaya in the visitors dugout. "But if this is what I've got to do to get better, to win championships, to do all I can do, then I've got to take it." YEA!!!! All I wanted to hear...my Milledge stock just rose a little bit.

ScarletKnight41 Jul 01 2006 09:52 AM

He's learning his cliches! Yea for Lastings! Seriously, it'll be good for him to get some more seasoning at the AAA level. He'll be a force to be reckoned with next year.

Edgy DC Jul 01 2006 10:59 AM

I work in the communications office of a national association. We have to put the breaks on what our president says. A lot. His initial response often seems to be as if we're invalidating his opinion. Then we say, that, no, his opinion is fine, it's just that it reflects on 1,200 schools, and each will have to answer for it. It's a team game. Being in frank is fine, but you spend your first few years staying on message, because you have to initially learn how your frankness reflects on the other 24 guys that are carrying water, and how your otherwise legitimate --- and colorful --- personal expression can influence the outcome of a contest or two.

SteveJRogers Jul 01 2006 11:58 AM

ScarletKnight41 wrote: [url=http://davidwright.mlblogs.com/]Here's the other end of the spectrum[/url] I love Mr. Wright, but I'll admit that this is banal. OTOH, there's something to be said for having a player put together a kid-friendly column like that. Blogs (or anything internet related) are very dangerous for famous, or "important" people to have. So you really do have to be measured in everything you do. If that means being banal and kid-friendly, then thats what it means, otherwise the wrong thing gets posted and Wright would be on the carpet and be told to shut down the blog

SteveJRogers Jul 01 2006 12:01 PM

In fact, how much do you want to bet that if someone posted a comment about the deadspin.com pictures, positive or negative, that it would be zapped immeadiatly

ScarletKnight41 Jul 04 2006 02:43 PM

[url=http://newyork.mets.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20060704&content_id=1538742&vkey=news_nym&fext=.jsp&c_id=nym]Apparently Pedro Feliciano needs to become better acquainted with his cliches[/url]

Nymr83 Jul 04 2006 04:56 PM

if Sanchez or Heilman made comments like that i'd applaud them for their honesty in calling out Willie on bad managing, but Feliciano? hry guess what buddy? you're the least important man on this roster! bullshit spots like that are what you are here for!

Gwreck Jul 04 2006 08:08 PM

Nymr83 wrote: if Sanchez or Heilman made comments like that i'd applaud them for their honesty in calling out Willie on bad managing, but Feliciano? hry guess what buddy? you're the least important man on this roster! bullshit spots like that are what you are here for! He's hardly the least important. Check his numbers. They're quite good, even after last night's meltdown.