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Being Doc Gooden

Willets Point Jun 24 2006 10:37 AM

When I was a kid, I wasn't a baseball fan. Sure, I had Mets & Yankees caps and pennants on the wall and said I was a fan of all New York teams (although even then I preferred the Mets), I never actually watched the game. I even collected baseball cards but had no appreciation of what the men on those pieces of cardboard actually did. In 1984, there was a buzz that even someone as oblivious as I couldn't miss out on. The longtime loser Mets were suddenly good and fighting with the Cubs for a playoff spot. People were carrying transistor radios around to listen to the games. Especially on the nights that a rookie pitcher named Dwight Gooden pitched. He was so good the fans called him Dr. K. I got sucked in. Even though the Mets missed the playoffs, I watched the World Series for the first time and the next spring starting on opening day I watched the Mets. Obsessively. Even though other players became my favorites, Gooden was at the center of it all. My first season as a full-time Mets fan was one of the greatest seasons a pitcher put together ever. And then the next year the Mets won the World Series. Of course it all came crashing down in 1987 when Gooden checked into rehab for cocaine addiction. Talk about dissillusioning. I didn't want to believe it, and after accepting it thought he was a hero for finding help and solving his problems right away. And I was wrong about that too. I saw one of Gooden's last games when he was pitching for the Yankees against the Red Sox at Fenway Park in 2000. He pitched four innings of long relief and he was brilliant. I had kind of mixed feelings since I wanted to see the Red Sox beat the Yankees but with each inning Gooden pitched, I didn't want to see him fail. And he didn't, he got a save and one last moment of glory on the pitcher's mound.

Iubitul Jun 24 2006 12:23 PM

Just don't wipe your nose while walking out of the bathroom - you wouldn't want people to wonder...

soupcan Jun 24 2006 12:32 PM

Dwight Gooden. Sigh. He broke my heart as a fan.

KC Jun 24 2006 12:38 PM

I think it was the Daily News backpage headline ... SAY IT AIN'T SO!

Iubitul Jun 24 2006 08:15 PM

I remember that day - April 1, 1987. One of my co-workers called me and told me the news. I didn't believe him, because I thought it was an April Fools joke... I immediately called SportsPhone, and heard the all-too-real news... I know others disagree with me, but I have always harbored more resentment towards Dwight than Darryl. I'm not sure why. Maybe it's due to the fact that Darryl didn't really start screwing up until he was gone, and Dwight started screwing up while he was still with the club...

ScarletKnight41 Jun 24 2006 09:29 PM

D-Dad, I, and my youngest brother-in-law saw Gooden give up 9 runs in 2 innings in his final spring training start in St. Pete in 1987. He went to Smithers a few days later. I wasn't as shocked, because I saw how bad he sucked and the drugs at least provided an explanation. But I never got over being pissed off at the wasted talent.

Elster88 Jun 24 2006 10:26 PM

I've always felt that people should not be pissed off that he "broke their heart" or because he "wasted his potential". That shit happens to people every day. Are you pissed at all of them?

ScarletKnight41 Jun 25 2006 05:55 AM

No. Those people didn't destroy anything that I personally love.

Johnny Dickshot Jun 25 2006 07:14 AM

Really, really exciting for a few seasons there. It was like, don't miss it. Probably most exciting time for a youngun' in the Mets org till ...right now ,seeing Reyes and Wright acheive things you rarely see for the first time.

seawolf17 Jun 25 2006 07:15 AM

Iubitul wrote: I remember that day - April 1, 1987. One of my co-workers called me and told me the news. I didn't believe him, because I thought it was an April Fools joke... I immediately called SportsPhone, and heard the all-too-real news... I know others disagree with me, but I have always harbored more resentment towards Dwight than Darryl. I'm not sure why. Maybe it's due to the fact that Darryl didn't really start screwing up until he was gone, and Dwight started screwing up while he was still with the club... Sportsphone! Remember the days before the internet? Wow! I kinda agree with iubes here. Darryl was dead to me the minute he put on that Dodgers hat; Doc strung us along here.

Elster88 Jun 25 2006 08:21 AM

ScarletKnight41 wrote: No. Those people didn't destroy anything that I personally love. But what did Doc destroy? Baseball is still played. The Mets organization is still going strong. IMHO, it's judgemental and completely unfair to hate someone because of wasted talent. Especially when the reason is a drug problem. Doc was under no obligation to play baseball. What if he had never had a problem but had just quit the game in 1989 (to arbitrarily pick a year) and had never come back? What if he quit simply because he didn't want to play anymore? Would anyone hate him then? I'm not just asking ScarletKnight either. I'm directing this to anyone who hates Doc for wasting his talent.

ScarletKnight41 Jun 25 2006 08:41 AM

He was under contract to play baseball for the New York Mets, and that contract included an obligation to keep himself physically fit. He took the money, but he violated that contract, and as a direct result of that violation the team's ability to win future championships was impeded. That pisses me off. If he wasted his talent as Kansas City Royal, I wouldn't give a darn. But that's not the case. He wasted his talent as a New York Met, and that hurt the team badly. If it doesn't piss you off then that's your prerogative. But don't tell me how I should feel.

KC Jun 25 2006 08:42 AM

E: Doc was under no obligation to play baseball. Doc played without a contract? He didn't get paid? He didn't get endorsement money? I'm pretty easy on Gooden by most big Mets' fans standards, but to say he didn't have any obligations isn't true and he failed to meet those obligations miserably even to this day.

KC Jun 25 2006 09:01 AM

1985 New York Mets $450,000 1986 New York Mets $1,320,000 1987 New York Mets $1,500,000 1988 New York Mets $1,400,000 1989 New York Mets $2,416,667 1990 New York Mets $1,866,667 1991 New York Mets $2,466,667 1992 New York Mets $5,166,667 1993 New York Mets $5,916,667 1994 New York Mets $4,616,667 1996 New York Yankees $950,000 1997 New York Yankees $2,000,000 1998 Cleveland Indians $2,787,500 1999 Cleveland Indians $2,637,500 2000 Houston Astros $500,000 Career (may be incomplete) $35,995,002

Elster88 Jun 26 2006 07:13 AM

ScarletKnight41 wrote: But don't tell me how I should feel. C'mon, I went out of my way to make it obvious that I'm stating my own personal opinion. I never told you or anyone how to feel.

KC Jun 26 2006 08:07 AM

I guess I'm black balled from getting a response from Mr. Elster.

Elster88 Jun 26 2006 08:12 AM

I'm trying to think of a better way to word what I said.

KC Jun 26 2006 09:18 AM

Just trying on my martyr cap ... it's heavy.

Edgy DC Jun 26 2006 09:31 AM

But a lot sexier than an asshat.

soupcan Jun 26 2006 10:08 AM

I agree with Scarlet and disagree with Elster. For a Met fan from the late '70s-early 80's Doc Gooden represented a bright, winning future for our franchise. He was our generation's Seaver. Our sure-fire Hall of Famer. Yankee fans had no answer to Doc. Especially after 1985 when he not only matched Guidry's '78 but bettered it. We invested so much in Dwight Gooden as fans that when he disappointed us we were devastated. There are a lot of us that were Doc's biggest fans and now we are his biggest detractors. If he had hurt his arm or there were some other reason for his demise I would have been much more accepting. But he did it to himself. While I was cheering him and giving him my unconditional support as a fan he was not reciprocating. He was not giving it his all as a player. I felt betrayed. Straw was different for the reasons already stated. While here, even though he abused himself he still was able to deliver on his potential. Once he left I didn't care what he did. I wished he would've stayed and at the time my position was that they should've opened up the vault for him. Would it have made a difference in his performance here? Would he have collapsed as a Met instead of a Dodger? Would his remaining a Met have reversed that downward spiral? If it hadn't would I feel the same about Straw as I do Gooden? Don't know. I do know that by abusing himself as a Met, Gooden abused not only the support of his fans but their dreams for who he was going to be. Is it his fault? Should a kid in his early 20s be held accountable for something as intangible as that? Maybe, maybe not. Its not for me to decide but that's how I feel.

Elster88 Jun 26 2006 11:00 AM

I can understand that viewpoint, soupy. It is normal whenever there is an emotional investment and you are let down. But my argument is that nobody forced you to make that emotional investment in him. The only reason you did, I'm guessing, is because he was so darn good. I can see being disappointed that he didn't live up to the promise he showed. In fact, I felt the same way. But it's not his fault that you put so much of your hopes and dreams into his life. To say you felt betrayed is implying that he had some sort of committment to you as a fan. I'd argue that he never had any such committment. My feeling is that it's ridiculous to still feel betrayed 15+ years later. The guy is in jail for crying out loud (and bankrupt?). He wishes it didn't happen as much as you do. Do we as Met fans really need to pile on the guy? I'd advise, to anyone who feels hatred, to appreciate what he did instead of hating him for what he didn't do. DISCLAIMER: PLEASE UNDERSTAND THAT I AM IN NO WAY TRYING TO TELL ANYONE HOW TO FEEL OR THAT THEY SHOULD FEEL HOW I FEEL. I AM SIMPLY PRESENTING A VIEWPOINT THAT, LIKE ANY THREAD IN THIS FORUM, IS OPEN FOR DISCUSSION AND DEBATE. THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME.

soupcan Jun 26 2006 12:27 PM

="Elster88"]But my argument is that nobody forced you to make that emotional investment in him. The only reason you did, I'm guessing, is because he was so darn good. I can see being disappointed that he didn't live up to the promise he showed. In fact, I felt the same way. But it's not his fault that you put so much of your hopes and dreams into his life. Nope, nobody forced me to be a fan and nobody forced him to make big money to play a game. Because there are a lot of baseball fans willing to pay money to see games, players are well-compensated. If they are going to take that kind of money (ie: the fans investment in them) they will be expected to do more than just play well. ="Elster88"]To say you felt betrayed is implying that he had some sort of committment to you as a fan. I'd argue that he never had any such committment. I'd argue that by my being a fan I had a committment to support and cheer for him and his team. The deal is - I'll come watch, cheer, root and spend my money - you, playah, willl put your best effort forward and win as many games as you possibly can. I did my part, he didn't do his. ="Elster88"]My feeling is that it's ridiculous to still feel betrayed 15+ years later. The guy is in jail for crying out loud (and bankrupt?). He wishes it didn't happen as much as you do. Do we as Met fans really need to pile on the guy? It was a very big deal to me at the time. I felt like I had something very special and he took it away from me. Sure 15 years later it doesn't hurt as much but it still hurts. ="Elster88"]I'd advise, to anyone who feels hatred, to appreciate what he did instead of hating him for what he didn't do. That's hard to do when you think about what he could have done.