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IGT - 7/2/03 - Mets at Yankees (Soler / Wright)

Gwreck Jul 02 2006 06:24 PM

New York Mets Reyes SS LoDuca C Beltran CF Delgado DH Wright 3B Floyd LF Valentin 2B Franco 1B Nady RF Soler P New York Yankees Johnny Damon CF Derek Jeter SS Jason Giambi DH Alex Rodriguez 3B Jorge Posada C Bernie Williams RF Andy Phillips 1B Melky Cabrera LF Nick Green 2B Jaret Wright P

Rockin' Doc Jul 02 2006 07:38 PM

The Mets are finally healthy. It's nice to once again see all the regulars back in the lineup together.

Gwreck Jul 02 2006 08:07 PM

Tarp on the field - rain delay to start.

ScarletKnight41 Jul 02 2006 09:20 PM

ScarletKnight41 Jul 02 2006 09:27 PM

Yet another game without a Met throwing a no-hitter.

Willets Point Jul 02 2006 09:33 PM

Damn national broadcasts.

Gwreck Jul 02 2006 09:36 PM

Refreshing to see Miller and Morgan actually issue a valid criticism of the umpires -- they failed to rotate properly and weren't in position for the play at first where Giambi was doubled up. The throw clearly beat Giambi, but Franco made a poor tag and Giambi was safe, by half a hair.

ScarletKnight41 Jul 02 2006 09:39 PM

Yea! Valentin hits in Cliffy to give the Mets a 1-0 lead!

ScarletKnight41 Jul 02 2006 09:41 PM

Crap! Valentin's failure to slide costs the Mets a run :(

Johnny Dickshot Jul 02 2006 09:45 PM

I love Reyes.

ScarletKnight41 Jul 02 2006 09:45 PM

A 2-RBI triple for Reyes! Yea Reyes!

ScarletKnight41 Jul 02 2006 09:48 PM

Our All Star catcher drives in our All Star shortstop to give the Mets a 4-0 lead :)

Willets Point Jul 02 2006 09:48 PM

These are the Mets I know and love.

ScarletKnight41 Jul 02 2006 09:51 PM

Cool! The MFYs go to the bullpen in the second inning!

Gwreck Jul 02 2006 09:52 PM

ScarletKnight41 wrote: Crap! Valentin's failure to slide costs the Mets a run :( I can't believe I'm agreeing with Joe Morgan twice in a game but he was right that Nady needed to be there telling Valentin to slide, and he wasn't.

Willets Point Jul 02 2006 09:52 PM

Na-na-na-na, hey-hey-hey, gooooooood-bye! Wright (the Wrong Wright) leaves the game in the 2nd inning. Happiness.

ScarletKnight41 Jul 02 2006 10:04 PM

Shit! Dumbo hits a solo homer to start the bottom of the second :(

Johnny Dickshot Jul 02 2006 10:07 PM

Gwreck wrote: ="ScarletKnight41"]Crap! Valentin's failure to slide costs the Mets a run :( I can't believe I'm agreeing with Joe Morgan twice in a game but he was right that Nady needed to be there telling Valentin to slide, and he wasn't. No excuse still for Valentin to go into a HR trot halfway down the line. At least Nady "made up for it" by reaching base and scoring. Mad props to LoDuca, who's been on my shitlist, for that ribbie single.

Elster88 Jul 02 2006 10:23 PM

Gwreck wrote: ="ScarletKnight41"]Crap! Valentin's failure to slide costs the Mets a run :( I can't believe I'm agreeing with Joe Morgan twice in a game but he was right that Nady needed to be there telling Valentin to slide, and he wasn't. I'll have to disagree here. Nady did give a signal, though maybe was too late in giving it. Regardless, if you don't know what to do, slide. And never, NEVER look for the ball yourself. And of course Joe Morgan goes on and on and on and won't shut the fuck up about Nady to make it seem like it was all Nady's fault. If you want to mention Nady being late there, fine. But regardless, Jose should've slid. His mistake was more unforgivable. And pissed me off more because he immediately looked at Nady....like it's only his job to slide if someone tells him too. And of course Morgan, while harping on it for THREE straight innings, never even mentions that.

Elster88 Jul 02 2006 10:26 PM

Johnny Dickshot wrote: No excuse still for Valentin to go into a HR trot halfway down the line. I didn't even catch that one. Now I'm even more pissed that he tried to stare down Nady.

ScarletKnight41 Jul 02 2006 10:30 PM

Fuckshit! A-Rod homers to give the MFYs a 6-4 lead :(

Willets Point Jul 02 2006 10:30 PM

These are the Mets I know and shake my head at.

Elster88 Jul 02 2006 10:30 PM

They are teeing off on Soler here.

Elster88 Jul 02 2006 10:32 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jul 02 2006 10:32 PM

ARod stares and admires for a while (not too long really, but long enough to be noticeable) and then flips the bat after the grand slam. After he crosses the plate, LoDuca had some words for him, so he and Giambi returned the words.

martin Jul 02 2006 10:32 PM

what do you fellas reckon is the dispute with loduca and arod?

Elster88 Jul 02 2006 10:32 PM

Willets Point wrote: These are the Mets I know and shake my head at. This is Soler's doing.

Methead Jul 02 2006 10:33 PM

Gotta love Loduca getting on A-Rod there though. Plenty of time for a comeback... we're into their bullpen. Villone ain't that great.

Willets Point Jul 02 2006 10:34 PM

Elster88 wrote: ="Willets Point"]These are the Mets I know and shake my head at. This is Soler's doing. He's a Met ain't he?

Elster88 Jul 02 2006 10:36 PM

Willets Point wrote: ="Elster88"] Willets Point wrote: These are the Mets I know and shake my head at. This is Soler's doing. He's a Met ain't he? True. I just thought from your quote that you were blaming the whole team. It sounded like something one would say there are errors, baserunning blunders, etc.

Elster88 Jul 02 2006 10:37 PM

Ok, it might be time to take Soler out.

Gwreck Jul 02 2006 10:37 PM

He needs to be pulled NOW. I have to wonder if Willie was slow in getting the bullpen working because of Oliver possibly taking the start tomorrow. He NEEDED to be pulled a lot earlier.

ScarletKnight41 Jul 02 2006 10:38 PM

Indeed, Soler's night is done. Thick legged Heath Bell comes into the game.

Diamond Dad Jul 02 2006 10:41 PM

I like LoDuca's spirit. I'm ready to send Soler back to Norfolk.

Elster88 Jul 02 2006 10:41 PM

Blech.

ScarletKnight41 Jul 02 2006 10:42 PM

I'm sending the thick legged one along with him. Ugh!

Elster88 Jul 02 2006 10:42 PM

This is one too many curtain calls. Hit someone between the numbers.

Willets Point Jul 02 2006 10:43 PM

I should just turn this off and go to bed shouldn't I?

TheOldMole Jul 02 2006 10:44 PM

OK, a little comic relief here. Lord knows we need it. Joe Morgan says of Alay Soler (on CC for the hearing impaired): "Any time a pitcher is afraid of cocaine, he's not going to be giving you Long Beach." Anyone want to take a shot at what he was really saying? I think I know the first part, can't figure out the second.

Methead Jul 02 2006 10:52 PM

Reyes walks. Let's get a couple runs back here.

Gwreck Jul 02 2006 10:54 PM

Rickey Henderson (sitting next to Omar in the stands) is wearing bling that says "1406." (That's how many bases Rickey stole in his career).

Methead Jul 02 2006 10:57 PM

Loduca gets lucky and drops one into right. 1st and 2nd, one out. Morgan and Miller putting me to sleep. Bastards.

cleonjones11 Jul 02 2006 11:04 PM

Seinfeld is on

Johnny Dickshot Jul 02 2006 11:05 PM

]True. I just thought from your quote that you were blaming the whole team. It sounded like something one would say there are errors, baserunning blunders, etc. Of course there was a huge baserunning fuckup tonight. As usual. Soler has really sucked BHMC for awhile now.

The Big O Jul 02 2006 11:08 PM

Johnny Dickshot wrote: Soler has really sucked BHMC for awhile now. Use of this term now has me fearing a new KC avatar.

Willets Point Jul 02 2006 11:10 PM

Yankee fans are hypocrites.

cleonjones11 Jul 02 2006 11:14 PM

Funny..your photo is of Dwight Gooden in addition to the fact they are ripping our tits off again.....

Johnny Dickshot Jul 02 2006 11:14 PM

Was kinda hoping Balco would make an out so Gayrod would bat with 0 on 2 out and take one in the ribs. Mets are nuts deep in their first crisis of the year. At least we got past ours early last year.

Methead Jul 02 2006 11:18 PM

Ugh... Nady shoulda caught that one... 2 runs in, and of course it leads to 2 more on a hit by the next guy.

Edgy DC Jul 02 2006 11:22 PM

The Yanks are sidetracking several Met careers tonight.

cleonjones11 Jul 02 2006 11:24 PM

OK Omar....get busy Zito and Willis...got a bad feeling about Pedro and Trachsel and Nady too..

Elster88 Jul 02 2006 11:24 PM

Three hard hit balls to start the fifth, only one results in a hit.

Methead Jul 02 2006 11:26 PM

So far, dammit.

SteveJRogers Jul 02 2006 11:26 PM

ScarletKnight41 wrote: Fuckshit! A-Rod homers to give the MFYs a 6-4 lead :( Leave to A-Hole to once again get a "Big Clutch HR" wiped out thanks to a blowout. Like the Reggie Jackson HR in the 78 Playoff game that officially iced the game (Dent put them ahead but the Sox scored off of Gossage later) "Big" moments like that get lost in the translation of the game! I'm saying this because its all the ESPN GameNight radio hosts were talking about, saying the Grand Slam, coupled with last week's Walkoff should take the King Kong sized gorilla off ARod's back

SteveJRogers Jul 02 2006 11:28 PM

Diamond Dad wrote: I like LoDuca's spirit. I'm ready to send Soler back to Norfolk. I'd send him back to Castro, and I don't mean Ramon!

Elster88 Jul 02 2006 11:28 PM

Julio Franco took a cut at an outside pitch, trying to drive it to right, just a bit late. Two pitches later, same pitch, he hits the right field wall on the fly. Though a right fielder who knows how to go back on a ball woulda caught it. But Bernie Williams is the right fielder, so naturally it went over his head.

Gwreck Jul 02 2006 11:29 PM

I'd think Soler could go back to AAA to make room for John Maine tomorrow.

Gwreck Jul 02 2006 11:31 PM

Elster88 wrote: But Bernie Williams is the right fielder, so naturally it went over his head. Fairness to Williams, he played Wright and Floyd's hits to right just fine and caught both. Nady needs to hit about 3 3-run homers here for some redemption.

Methead Jul 02 2006 11:32 PM

Ooooh, a chat with Willie after the break. Should be a blast.

Elster88 Jul 02 2006 11:33 PM

Gwreck wrote: ="Elster88"]But Bernie Williams is the right fielder, so naturally it went over his head. Fairness to Williams, he played Wright and Floyd's hits to right just fine and caught both. Those were routing plays. Franco's was not routine, but should've been caught. It helps that Bernie also plays about five strides deeper than anyone else. If not, Wright, Reyes, and Nady who made the last out may have all had hits.

Elster88 Jul 02 2006 11:34 PM

Joe Morgan is a moron. Have I said that yet today?

Rotblatt Jul 02 2006 11:35 PM

Ugh. We'd better perk up when we take on Pittsburgh & Florida. This is embarassing.

cleonjones11 Jul 02 2006 11:35 PM

What is a routing play?

Elster88 Jul 02 2006 11:36 PM

I'm sure you can figure things out for yourself.

SteveJRogers Jul 02 2006 11:36 PM

Rotblatt wrote: Ugh. We'd better perk up when we take on Pittsburgh & Florida. This is embarassing. Why am I suddenly getting images of black cats running around Shea this upcoming weekend? D-Train=Tom Terrific?

cleonjones11 Jul 02 2006 11:37 PM

OK BUCKETHEAD

Elster88 Jul 02 2006 11:37 PM

SteveJRogers wrote: ="Rotblatt"]Ugh. We'd better perk up when we take on Pittsburgh & Florida. This is embarassing. Why am I suddenly getting images of black cats running around Shea this upcoming weekend? I dunno....because you're a knee-jerk reactionary?

SteveJRogers Jul 02 2006 11:41 PM

Elster88 wrote: ="SteveJRogers"] ="Rotblatt"]Ugh. We'd better perk up when we take on Pittsburgh & Florida. This is embarassing. Why am I suddenly getting images of black cats running around Shea this upcoming weekend? I dunno....because you're a knee-jerk reactionary? Trying to go with the funny Veteran laden team runs up a big lead Team expected to lose 100 squirms out of the pack of horrid NL East teams with a young manager and lots of young talent to be 2nd in July heading into a series against said 1st place team Hmmmm, haven't I've seen THAT before! SC=1969

Elster88 Jul 02 2006 11:41 PM

They really love ARod these days.

SteveJRogers Jul 02 2006 11:42 PM

Elster88 wrote: They really love ARod these days. Who? Morgan and Miller? National Broadcasters always love those who are annointed "The Best Natural Player In The Game"

Johnny Dickshot Jul 02 2006 11:43 PM

Torre will pull Gayrod before we have a chance to drill him next.

Gwreck Jul 02 2006 11:43 PM

Curtain call when you're up 11 runs? Time to go kerplunk. Actually, that might be the best way to get Heath Bell out of the game. I don't know, Willie, do YOU think he has it tonight?

Methead Jul 02 2006 11:43 PM

I think I'll stay up and watch ARod get fucking beaned next time. At least I hope that's what I see.

Elster88 Jul 02 2006 11:43 PM

I think Heath's a sacrifical lamb in Willie's eyes.

Gwreck Jul 02 2006 11:45 PM

Elster88 wrote: I think Heath's a sacrifical lamb in Willie's eyes. I think Wilie was stupid for even letting him pitch this inning.

Johnny Dickshot Jul 02 2006 11:46 PM

I don;t get the impresion the brass ever thought much of Bell anywhoo. He's doing a heroic job just to stay in there and take the beating he's getting.

Willets Point Jul 02 2006 11:47 PM

I think the source of all this is that Soler and Bell just cannot abide the taste of Schaefer beer no way, no how.

Elster88 Jul 02 2006 11:48 PM

Options = Morgan & co. or Kay & co. = mute button.

Gwreck Jul 02 2006 11:49 PM

Johnny Dickshot wrote: Torre will pull Gayrod before we have a chance to drill him next. They've got such a small bench I still have some hope this won't happen.

Elster88 Jul 02 2006 11:50 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jul 02 2006 11:50 PM

Ten more of those and we're in this thing. That was a fucking bomb, by the way.

Johnny Dickshot Jul 02 2006 11:50 PM

it's about the only reason to watch. Beltran is immune to the suck virus going around.

SteveJRogers Jul 02 2006 11:51 PM

Small kaboom for Beltran Hey kinda like ARod!

Frayed Knot Jul 02 2006 11:51 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jul 02 2006 11:53 PM

]I don;t get the impresion the brass ever thought much of Bell anywhoo. - Heath has never been consistant enough to earn the team's faith. Too many turkeys thrown in with his occasional good outings. - Anyone besides me get the impression when Wright skied out in the 2nd that we were going to regret not cashing in on those add-on runs? Of course you did although it turns out to hardly matter. - Soler, in addition to his other problems, just doesn't have 'swing-and-miss' stuff. That was true even during his good starts for the most part.

Elster88 Jul 02 2006 11:51 PM

Johnny Dickshot wrote: Beltran is immune to the suck virus going around. I'd argue that only Soler and Bell have such a disease today. Maybe Nady too for the drop. 6 runs in 6 innings really isn't that bad.

Elster88 Jul 02 2006 11:53 PM

Frayed Knot wrote: - Heath has never been consistant enough to earn the team's faith. Too many turkeys thrown in with his occasional good outings. He had more than a couple good outings in a row, IIRC. Getting smashed around by the Yankee lineup isn't too uncommon

Elster88 Jul 02 2006 11:53 PM

Willie apparently giving up as Woody comes in to play short.

Gwreck Jul 02 2006 11:54 PM

I just don't get it. We pull Reyes, but put in a key reliever (Bradford)?? They must REALLY want Darren Oliver to take that start tomorrow. What the hell was wrong with John Maine?

old original jb Jul 02 2006 11:56 PM

I'm going to sleep. This doesn't seem like a real game. Honestly, I don't know if it's sour grapes but I'm just not as much into the whole subway series rivalry thing this year. The Mets are pretty likely to make it into the post season--and their chances of getting to the World Series are better than those of the Yankees, regardless of tonight's drubbing. If they do make it to the World Series, the chances that they will face the Yankees are pretty small. Things foremost on my mind based on tonight are 1) dissapointment that my hopes for Soler have been dashed for the time being and 2) wondering what to do about pitching. The Yankees (or Ackees as my daughter calls them, as in "Yay Mets, Ackees Boo!") are low on my list.

Edgy DC Jul 02 2006 11:56 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jul 02 2006 11:57 PM

There'll be plenty of innings for everybody I guess. If Bradford can't afford a full inning now and then... Bell, by the way, ended up throwing as many pitches as Soler. Sixty-five.

Elster88 Jul 02 2006 11:56 PM Edited 2 time(s), most recently on Jul 02 2006 11:58 PM

cleonjones11 wrote: OK BUCKETHEAD

Elster88 Jul 02 2006 11:58 PM

Nice play by Valentin.

Johnny Dickshot Jul 02 2006 11:59 PM

It's Maine's turn in the Norfolk rotation tomorrow too.

Elster88 Jul 03 2006 12:00 AM

Too pissed off to talk some Rickey-speak.

Gwreck Jul 03 2006 12:05 AM

Johnny Dickshot wrote: It's Maine's turn in the Norfolk rotation tomorrow too. That's why I'm so damn puzzled by the "insistance"** that Oliver start. ** Judging from failure to have him pitch tonight.

Methead Jul 03 2006 12:05 AM

OK, if those guys can put up 8 runs in an inning, so can we. Of course... we'd still be losing at that point. But who's counting?

Johnny Dickshot Jul 03 2006 12:07 AM

] Anyone besides me get the impression when Wright skied out in the 2nd that we were going to regret not cashing in on those add-on runs? Of course you did although it turns out to hardly matter. Really underscores the Valentin at home play though. I like Wright with 'em loaded and 1 out so much better. I'm convinced we'd still be batting were it not for that. OTOH, Game 1 of the 2000 WS, 6th inning, would still be going on now and preventing this game from even happening if Timo F. Perez ran the bases properly at MFY Stadium.

Edgy DC Jul 03 2006 12:09 AM

Interesingly, by switching to Fat Bastard here, the Torre is deeper into his bullpen tonight than Willie is.

Gwreck Jul 03 2006 12:09 AM

Johnny Dickshot wrote: OTOH, Game 1 of the 2000 WS, 6th inning, would still be going on now and preventing this game from even happening if Timo F. Perez ran the bases properly at MFY Stadium. They were showing that on YES today. Except that they took the FOX video and dubbed over Kay and Sterling (presumably from the radio broadcast of the game). YES Network, proving themselves to be a bunch of tools.

Johnny Dickshot Jul 03 2006 12:09 AM

Gwreck wrote: ="Johnny Dickshot"]It's Maine's turn in the Norfolk rotation tomorrow too. That's why I'm so damn puzzled by the "insistance"** that Oliver start. ** Judging from failure to have him pitch tonight. I don;t care who pitches tomorrow and don;t presume to know why or why not they considered Maine. I mean, if they planned for pedro to get hurt and Soler to cough up 8 runs in the second inning that'd be poor planning. Interesting though as Joe & Jon were saying -- Torre managed this like a game he had to have and WWSB didn't. Of course Joe had to have it and WWSB didn;t, necessarily.

Methead Jul 03 2006 12:09 AM

Seriously. Even if you don't HAVE to slide into home... why not slide anyway?

Gwreck Jul 03 2006 12:13 AM

Johnny Dickshot wrote: Interesting though as Joe & Jon were saying -- Torre managed this like a game he had to have and WWSB didn't. Of course Joe had to have it and WWSB didn;t, necessarily. That's what makes me so damn furious. Maybe he "didn't" have to have it but that shows, in my opinion, a serious disrespect for Mets fans (ie. not recognizing the importance of this particular series).

Frayed Knot Jul 03 2006 12:17 AM

]Really underscores the Valentin at home play though. I like Wright with 'em loaded and 1 out so much better. When 8 straight guys reach base, including 2 XBH, you should score more than 4 runs. It's back to the bad base-running/giving away outs we were talking about the other day.

Gwreck Jul 03 2006 12:20 AM

Eli Marerro has never played third base in a major league game, before tonight.

SteveJRogers Jul 03 2006 12:29 AM

Gwreck wrote: ="Johnny Dickshot"]Interesting though as Joe & Jon were saying -- Torre managed this like a game he had to have and WWSB didn't. Of course Joe had to have it and WWSB didn;t, necessarily. That's what makes me so damn furious. Maybe he "didn't" have to have it but that shows, in my opinion, a serious disrespect for Mets fans (ie. not recognizing the importance of this particular series). You're joking right? 11 game lead. Yeah its against a team over .500 and all, but still, ITS AN AMERICAN LEAGUE TEAM! This isn't the Phillies, Nationals, Marlins, or Braves. Or even Cards, Reds, Dodgers or anyone we'd be fighting for a WC spot with. By the way, that does jive with what Joe Torre actually thinks about these series as well, hell maybe I am listening to the radio too much and reading the columnists too much, but the bottom line is simple THIS SERIES MEANS SQUAT IN THE GRAND SCHEME OF THINGS!

Gwreck Jul 03 2006 12:35 AM

SteveJRogers wrote: You're joking right? 11 game lead. Yeah its against a team over .500 and all, but still, ITS AN AMERICAN LEAGUE TEAM! This isn't the Phillies, Nationals, Marlins, or Braves. Or even Cards, Reds, Dodgers or anyone we'd be fighting for a WC spot with. By the way, that does jive with what Joe Torre actually thinks about these series as well, hell maybe I am listening to the radio too much and reading the columnists too much, but the bottom line is simple THIS SERIES MEANS SQUAT IN THE GRAND SCHEME OF THINGS! Everybody knows this series means "more" to each team's fans. This is especially true, in my experience and opinion, to those living closest to New York. In the standings, it's just as much as any other, as you've indicated. Considering the circumstances -- we've lost 6 of our last 8 -- that's it's one of the best 5 teams in baseball -- and the Subway Series factor -- it should be managed like an important, rather than a meaningless game.

Rotblatt Jul 03 2006 12:37 AM

I see where you're coming from, Gwrek, but IMO, WWSB's doing the right thing. I mean, do we REALLY want him managing per the fans' wishes?

SteveJRogers Jul 03 2006 12:40 AM

Another small Beltran HR

Gwreck Jul 03 2006 12:41 AM

I think that's a fair point, and no, we obviously don't want him pandering to the fans. Still, the failure to give Soler and Bell the hook was really frustrating, regardless of the circumstance. 11 game lead or whatever, I think the team needs to play to win every game. That always seems to be Willie's strength -- that he gets the players to play hard. I'd like to see him manage that way, too. I realize my belief about the failure to use Oliver is in part based on Ed Coleman telling me on WFAN that Maine is available to be called up to start. I really am not all that worried about the blowout per se. They happen occasionally. I just think some embarassment could've been prevented.

Edgy DC Jul 03 2006 12:43 AM

Of course it was frustrating. So what? The Mets have bigger fish to fry. Beltran bats leadoff tomorrow.

Elster88 Jul 03 2006 12:46 AM

Gwreck wrote: ="Johnny Dickshot"]Interesting though as Joe & Jon were saying -- Torre managed this like a game he had to have and WWSB didn't. Of course Joe had to have it and WWSB didn;t, necessarily. That's what makes me so damn furious. Maybe he "didn't" have to have it but that shows, in my opinion, a serious disrespect for Mets fans (ie. not recognizing the importance of this particular series). Actually, my guess is that most fans do recognize the importance of this series....which is virtually nothing. Joe Moron was the one who didn't realize it the actual importance of this game. Amazing too that he failed to get the point, even as his partner spent a good five minutes explaining it to him. Actually it's not surprising, knowing him. These fools went on tangents the whole game. It must have been annoying to them that the action on the field kept getting in the way of their chat.

Frayed Knot Jul 03 2006 12:47 AM

I thought Willie was just too slow to replace Soler - although once he did I had no problem opting for Bell there rather than scrapping all plans for tomorrow and the rest of the week by getting Oliver up at all costs. Then, once Bell was shelled also, it made the most sense to keep him in there even if it meant taking the bullets. I mean, yeah, Morgan was correct here in that Torre stopped the bleeding by yanking Wright earlier than Willie yanked Soler - and that was certainly part of the difference. But the bigger part is that Villone stuffed us for 2+ innings while Bell turned out to just throw more gasoline on the fire. Only so much you can do when your pitchers decide to suck on a given night.

Edgy DC Jul 03 2006 01:07 AM

]I just don't get it. We pull Reyes, but put in a key reliever (Bradford)?? I don't get how the whole willie-didn't-try-hard-enough angle. Complain that they put in a key reliever (they're all important at one level or another) and complain that they didn't put enough in. It's a blowout. You try to get through it with as little damage as possible. You want back in the game, let the batters hit you back in.

Gwreck Jul 03 2006 01:38 AM

By pulling Reyes, Willie was pretty much suggesting that the hitters weren't going to put us back in the game. I can see the argument for giving the relievers some work but my perception was that the 'pen was better served by letting Oliver take 3 innings or so rather than using Bradford (and Feliciano).

Edgy DC Jul 03 2006 10:31 AM

But they were committed, for whatever reasons that, to starting Oliver the next day. I don't want to get into justifying those reasons, because that's not the point. Once you make that commitment, it's the last possible thing any manager considers to bag the plan for tomorrow because you need tomorrow's starting pitcher to pitch mopup in a 10-run game today. Every team everywhere goes into Sunday with a plan about keeping whoever is starting on Monday out of the game, and needing mopup innings in a blowout is certainly no reason to scrap that plan.

metirish Jul 03 2006 10:37 AM

No point having Oliver pitch yesterday as is being pointed out here, Pelfrey pitched Saturday so is not an option for tonight, but as the Daily News is reporting today Pelfrey is being withheld from the Futures game next weekend in Pittsburgh,the thiking is that he might get the start against the Marlins Saturday.The Mets have a dooubleheader Saturday to makeup for the opeing series home stand rainout versus the fish.

MFS62 Jul 03 2006 10:41 AM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jul 03 2006 10:51 AM

="metirish"]No point having Oliver pitch yesterday as is being pointed out here, Pelfrey pitched Saturday so is not an option for tonight, but as the Daily News is reporting today Pelfrey is being withheld from the Futures game next weekend in Pittsburgh,the thiking is that he might get the start against the Marlins Saturday.The Mets have a dooubleheader Saturday to makeup for the opeing series home stand rainout versus the fish. Rats! I may have to rethink my KTE. I was going to do something "different" (to keep my streak of weird KTEs going). Later

metirish Jul 03 2006 10:46 AM

should have noted the report said Oliver and Maine could get that start. ] Pelfrey may get chance BY ADAM RUBIN DAILY NEWS SPORTS WRITER Mike Pelfrey's major-league debut may come this weekend against the Marlins - whether or not Pedro Martinez overcomes hip inflammation and can make a start before the All-Star break. Because of a rainout during the season's opening home stand, the Mets have a doubleheader Saturday against the Marlins at Shea and have at least one starting vacancy. Pelfrey, who had a solid showing at Double-A Binghamton two days ago with special assistant Sandy Johnson watching, will get strong consideration for that start, along with Norfolk's John Maine and long-reliever Darren Oliver. Two of those three pitchers could be called upon Saturday if Martinez is shut down until after the All-Star Break. Pelfrey regularly hit 96 mph with his fastball while limiting New Hampshire to one run and two hits in seven innings. He still needs to refine his curveball, but that might not prevent the Mets from promoting him. An MLB staffer said the league wanted Pelfrey to participate in next weekend's Futures Game for prospects in Pittsburgh, but officials were told he was unavailable because of potentially looming major-league duty.

Edgy DC Jul 03 2006 01:29 PM

Jon, relax.

Elster88 Jul 03 2006 02:22 PM

A lot of writers are failing to realize that today's game means as much in the standings as yesterday's/

Edgy DC Jul 03 2006 03:48 PM

="gwreck"]In the standings, it's just as much as any other, as you've indicated. ="elster"]A lot of writers are failing to realize that today's game means as much in the standings as yesterday's/ Technically, today's game means more. And the Yankee game less. Beating an American League team lifts you up a half a game, while beating a National League team lifts you up a half game and knocks a potential rival down a half in the wildcard standings. Beating a National League East team lifts you up a half game and knocks a potential rival down in both the division standings and the wildcard standings. Now, in the case of Pittsburgh, that's pretty much theoretical, as they are extremely unlikely to find themselves in a rivalry with the Mets for a wildcard slot anytime soon. But a good fire chief knows there is a time to think less about saving a house and more about keeping the fire from spreading to the next house. Similarly, a good manager knows there's a time to think less about coming back in a blowout and more about keeping as many personnel, and as many key personnel, as possible available to fight the next day. The Mets weathered this game with their top three relievers unused, their mopup guy/spot starter ready to make his spot start today, and nobody injured. Yeah, more aggressive managerial tactics might have given them a better chance to get back in the game, but it is extremely likely that they would have proven nonetheless futile, but rather made it a six- or seven-run difference, rather than a ten-run difference. I'm glad the Yankees are behind us. More important things to accomplish.

seawolf17 Jul 03 2006 04:12 PM

But Edgy, we lost to the Yankees. Wait... what's that? We're still in first place? But we lost to the Yankees. Doesn't that override the standings? What? We have an eleven game lead? And the best record in the National League? Yeah, but we lost to the Yankees. Doesn't that really mean more than some meaningless standings? What's that? If the season ended today we'd be in the playoffs and the Yankees wouldn't be? That can't be right. You must be reading something wrong. Yankee fans say they're always better, so it must be true.

ScarletKnight41 Jul 03 2006 04:22 PM