Master Index of Archived Threads
Nady for Bert and Perez - What Do YOU Think?
| I Love the Deal. Omar, Will You Marry Me? | 0 votes |
| I Like the Deal. Omar, Will You Come to My Wedding? | 14 votes |
| I Dislike the Deal. | 16 votes |
| I Hate the Deal. Omar, Watch Your Back. | 3 votes |
| Elster88 Jul 31 2006 02:37 PM |
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Taking everything into consideration, what do you think of the trade.
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| cooby Jul 31 2006 02:39 PM |
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I don't like losing Nady already. I have no problem with having Roberto Hernandez back. I chose I don't like deal.
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| Elster88 Jul 31 2006 02:40 PM |
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I look at it this way, too.
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| Benjamin Grimm Jul 31 2006 02:41 PM |
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I went with hate. Smells of panic. Wasn't necessary.
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| Elster88 Jul 31 2006 02:42 PM |
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Oh yeah, hate for me, too.
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| Gwreck Jul 31 2006 02:43 PM |
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Assuming that the Phillies were happy to trade intradivision, the Mets could've hade Abreu too. It was a pure salary dump. Irrelevant to this discussion I think.
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| Centerfield Jul 31 2006 02:46 PM |
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I hate this deal. So much so that I wish we had gotten Abreu instead.
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| Elster88 Jul 31 2006 02:46 PM |
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Irrelevant may be a little strong. My point is that the Mets didn't need to give up Nady to get Robo. If they did have to, they shouldn't have done it.
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| seawolf17 Jul 31 2006 02:48 PM |
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Dislike. We weren't getting Abreu; the Phils weren't sending him somewhere they'll see him nineteen games a year.
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| Elster88 Jul 31 2006 02:50 PM |
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I think what I said was unclear. I didn't mean to say we should've gotten Abreu. I just meant to use it as an example of what an All-Star outfielder just went for in a trade, and comparing it to what our productive outfielder went for in a trade.
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| Vic Sage Jul 31 2006 02:51 PM |
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Nady was a serviceable RFer who'll likely be replaced in the lineup by Milledge (mostly). I don't see a big dropoff there, and there's a possiblity of much greater production from the 5-tool rookie.
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| Mr. Zero Jul 31 2006 02:51 PM |
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Dislike. I'm thinking we could have pillaged the Pirates for a better deal and held on to Nady. The Yankees picked up Craig Wilson for freakin' Shawn freakin' Chacon. I'm sure a wet bag of balls would have done it.
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| Elster88 Jul 31 2006 02:54 PM |
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I disagree with this analysis for two reasons: 1. I think the dropoff from Nady to Milledge is huge right now. I don't think Milledge is ready for playoff baseball with either offensively or defensively. Of course that can change in the future, but I'm not comfortable with Milledge in the lineup come playoff time. 2. I saw Milledge replacing Floyd next year, and Nady staying on the team. Now we replace Nady with Milledge, and have to find another outfielder next year if Floyd moves on.
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| Edgy MD Jul 31 2006 03:02 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jul 31 2006 03:03 PM |
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Milledge also puts the Mets in a position of relying on an X factor on a team that had been seriously stabilized to this point. You should have a pretty good idea of what you're going to get from Nady from this point forward. Milledge may give you more, or may give you a headache, you have no idea.
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| Centerfield Jul 31 2006 03:03 PM |
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In two trades, Omar turned a 30 HR, 30 steal Gold Glove CF-er into a 25 year old bust of a pitcher getting beat up in AAA, and a 41 year old reliever making so much we thought it wasn't worth to sign him (without giving up anyone) at the beginning of the season.
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| Gwreck Jul 31 2006 03:07 PM |
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I loved Mike Cameron too, but his 30 HRs was a career high; he'd never reached 30-30 in the same season, hadn't reached 30 steals since 2002. Plus the $$ saved, which (if we believe what's been said) was important to us getting Delgado.
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| Rotblatt Jul 31 2006 03:08 PM |
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I don't see how you can write off Perez so easily. He's only 25 and his pitching coach has been fucking with him incessantly since 2004.
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| Centerfield Jul 31 2006 03:09 PM |
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Metsblog now says the Mets are denying the Linebrink deal. I wonder if Omar did this deal to set up for the Linebrink deal, then hit a snag.
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| Johnny Dickshot Jul 31 2006 03:10 PM |
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Cameron is like Itchy in that Fantasia/Simpsons cartoon, where he gets hacked into increasingly granular pieces, then finally into a vapor, which gets inhaled and then destroys the cat from the inside.
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| cooby Jul 31 2006 03:11 PM |
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Agreed about Oliver Perez, he could turn out to really be something
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| Elster88 Jul 31 2006 03:20 PM |
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He could be good. I just don't think he will. And I generally don't think a "could be" guy should be considered as a huge part of the equation when considering a trade. Especially not one who just gave up, what was it, 8 runs in a third of an innning...in AAA.
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| Vic Sage Jul 31 2006 03:25 PM |
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i had the misfortune of gambling on Perez for my fantasy teams the last 2 years, based on his "upside", and i got creamed for it. Paying attention to reports about him led me to read stories on a regular basis about his lost velocity after an arm injury. I can write off a guy with control problems who has lost his fastball... and i can do so quite easily.
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| Rockin' Doc Jul 31 2006 04:29 PM |
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I really don't like this deal. The line up just got a little weaker and we still didn't improve the rotation. Instead we trade a starting outfielder for a soon to be 42 year old reliever that the Mets let walk at the end of last season.
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| Farmer Ted Jul 31 2006 04:51 PM |
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I said this in the x-man gone thread, I would have rather seen Milledge go for a starting arm than X-Man for two bullpen arms. The Mets are going to take the division so you need three starters for the playoffs. Pedro, Glavine and Schmidt/Oswalt. El Duque goes to the pen to take the Sanchez spot in the playoffs.
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| ScarletKnight41 Jul 31 2006 04:56 PM |
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I haven't absorbed it enough yet to form an opinion. In my mind the Mets have flipped Perez for the trade that didn't happen, so now I have to evaluate it based on what we have.
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| Rotblatt Jul 31 2006 06:16 PM |
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Roberto 2006: 1 PRAA (Pitching Runs Against Average)
Again, they fucked with his delivery leading into 2005, and he decided to revert to his old delivery only in May of this year. Now, maybe he's injured or he was on steroids in 2004 and he'll never be the same, etc. etc., but maybe he just had a shitty pitching coach and just needs some time to work his shit out. He's turning only 25 in about two weeks and he spent a big chunk of last year on the DL (okay, so 2 months were due to his kicking a laundry cart, which I'll grant isn't a point in his favor), so to me, it seems like there's reason for optimism. In terms of upside, PECOTA thinks Perez & Nady are fairly similar in projected RAA over the next 5 years, but they also don't have a good handle on Perez (Similarity Index of 18--anything below 20 is "historically unusual.") whereas Nady they feel they've got pegged (SI of 67). Anyway, I hear where y'all are coming from. Perez is a gamble who might not be worth anything to us, whereas Nady will pretty clearly have value over the next few years. Personally, though, I like this gamble. With Chavez & Milledge, Nady was redundant, so we took a short-term shot on solidifying our suddenly wounded bullpen AND a long-term shot on our rotation.
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| Centerfield Jul 31 2006 07:00 PM |
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The more I think about today, we basically lost two players. The injury to Sanchez I can live with. The trade I can't.
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| metirish Jul 31 2006 07:04 PM |
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Well I'm not so sure he plays solid defence, they must think Milledge will be better,not so sure about that either..and Omar on the FAN claimed that the Pirates didn't know about the Sanchez injury so no he didn't feel over the barrel. Some girl on the FAN gave a good account of herself and why she thought Omar gave up too much for Bert, then she said as a woman she's sad because well he's hot.." don't the Mets want to sell tickets to women?"....kinda funny.
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| smg58 Jul 31 2006 07:26 PM |
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Our defense is upgraded considerably by this. As far as offense goes, it depends on what Milledge learned during his first stint here. Given the obvious difference in upside, I don't think the Mets will suffer from this. I have to think, though, that Minaya could have found somebody more appealing than Shawn Chacon to throw in to get Craig Wilson if he wanted to.
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| Zvon Jul 31 2006 07:38 PM |
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I think this deal could have been done with less impact on the starting lineup---that is to say it could have been done for less than Nady.
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| metirish Jul 31 2006 07:41 PM |
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We still need a leftie of the bench,no doubt Oamr will get one on the waiver wire.
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| Elster88 Jul 31 2006 08:25 PM |
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Um. What?
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| Gwreck Jul 31 2006 08:28 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jul 31 2006 08:28 PM |
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ZI believe that refers to the fact that both Milledge and Chavez are better defensive outfielders than Nady.
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| Johnny Dickshot Jul 31 2006 08:28 PM |
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Nady wasn't a great defender. One stahead suggested Chavez so far has added as much value playing the postion defensively to make up for Nady's considerable offensive advantage, tho that assumes those levels, particularly Chavez' O, stay constant.
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| Edgy MD Jul 31 2006 08:31 PM |
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But, even if you accept all that, we're just whizzing by happy assumptions about the current quality of Milledge's O and D.
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| Elster88 Jul 31 2006 08:33 PM |
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That's what I was thinking.
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| Zvon Jul 31 2006 08:35 PM |
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I dont mind seeing what Chavez can do on an everyday basis. And I personally absolutely think he should get that starting role for now, and Milledge should take Chavez's bench role, and see how that goes.
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| Elster88 Jul 31 2006 08:37 PM |
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Though I'd like to imagine differently, my guess is that he would return to his career norms. They always do.
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| RealityChuck Jul 31 2006 08:39 PM |
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It's giving up too much for too little. Hernandez may be OK for another year, but Nady could have been set for awhile.
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| Elster88 Jul 31 2006 08:43 PM |
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Or someone else. Either way, I'd rather have a cheap Nady and spend the money on pitching. And I'd rather have a cheap Nady over a cheap Floyd. I'm a FloydFan, but I have to face that his body parts are fragile.
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| Zvon Jul 31 2006 08:47 PM |
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Augggh- I hear ya. Couldnt we have sent Woody and some minor leaguer (s)? Or even Woody straight up for Hernandez........ Another lopsided deal that favors the Pirates, IMO, but less effect on the MLB squad.
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| Edgy MD Jul 31 2006 08:50 PM |
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It strikes me more like a calculated risk. He might be better, might not, and Robo in the pen is worth that risk. To them.
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| metirish Jul 31 2006 08:54 PM |
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Robo was great last year but IIRC he was not that great during August, plus Sanchez could take the ball every day it seemed,it's asking a lot of Bert to replace Sanchez,it's time for Heilman to get more innings.
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| Zvon Jul 31 2006 09:04 PM |
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Come on---you gotta know if Milledge went in this deal in Nadys place there would have been riots--all hell woulda broke loose. Milledge in a deal for Oswalt or Willis, or some other top notch starting arm that could help now and for the next few years,okay. But not in this deal. I think Nadys average numbers and sometimes awkward looking right field work made him the odd man out in Omars eyes. And because he hasnt been here all that long. But we all know Nady popped some very big and important homers this season. Im sure my memory is biased, but as far as I recall every homer he hit was a needed shot at the time.
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| Edgy MD Jul 31 2006 09:11 PM |
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I certainly didn't mean to suggest in any way that Milledge should have or could have been traded for Hernandez or any other replacement for Sanchez. The question we're speaking to is how much, if any, the Mets expect to lose in the outfield in trading Nady.
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| metirish Jul 31 2006 09:15 PM |
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I thnk the mets lose nothing really in outfield defence, Nady was cool and all but Chavez plays a better RF, the question is can Milledge play a better outfield.
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| Zvon Jul 31 2006 09:16 PM |
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I was actually addressing metirish--tho I couldnt find the original post to see in what context that ("they must think Milledge will be better") was said. I hear what your saying--thats exactly what this is- a calculated risk.
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| Zvon Jul 31 2006 09:18 PM |
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And we would have gotten Oswalt? .....those bastages. ;)
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| Elster88 Jul 31 2006 09:19 PM |
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Yeah Oswalt on the team would've been pretty damn cool.
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| Zvon Jul 31 2006 09:25 PM |
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the guys a freakin bulldog. Cripes, what a day. I expected a move or two but not car crashes and disposable kabooms.
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| Gwreck Jul 31 2006 10:14 PM |
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I wonder what Cliff Floyd would think about that.
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| Nymr83 Jul 31 2006 10:37 PM |
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if he doesnt like it he can be part of the trade, Oswalt would be the Met ace for at least the next 5 years
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| Willets Point Aug 01 2006 01:35 PM |
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No has noted how this trade further complicates Schaefer voting, adding RHernandez to AHernandez and OHernandez.
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| MFS62 Aug 01 2006 01:39 PM |
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Something tells me you might have to play thread police a lot, reminding posters to include that key first initial. Later
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| Edgy MD Aug 01 2006 01:54 PM |
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I was thinking about this while I didn't sleep last night. Has any prior Mets team included three players with the same surname?
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| Benjamin Grimm Aug 01 2006 01:57 PM |
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Were there ever three Millers on the team in the same season?
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| Benjamin Grimm Aug 01 2006 01:58 PM |
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3:36 p.m. yesterday
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| GYC Aug 01 2006 04:57 PM |
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I voted I that I like the deal. I feel that the team is better with Milledge and Chavez rather than Nady. Nady is too inconsistent at the plate, and is possibly the worst defensive outfield I've ever seen play, including Manny Ramirez. I'm not impressed with Roberto Hernandez that much considering his age and WHIP, but I also feel a hell of a lot more comfortable with him pitching than I do with Heilman. Oliver Perez intrigues me; with his starts, they were either very good or very bad. According to someone's post on either MetsBlog or this Jets messageboard I go to, his main problems in his destructive starts was a lack of control (he watched a few different starts on MLB.tv after we acquired him). Plus, he is 24. I think that if he worked with Rick Peterson, he could be an above average or good starter. Maybe not the same level that he was (or so it was believed), but good nonetheless.
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| Elster88 Aug 01 2006 05:32 PM |
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Have you seen Milledge play yet?
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| Edgy MD Aug 02 2006 01:40 AM |
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I don't buy this at all.
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| Gwreck Aug 02 2006 05:50 AM |
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Yeah. I counter with Roger Cedeno in center field, circa 2003.
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| Frayed Knot Aug 02 2006 08:36 AM |
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Nady's defense was erratic, maybe even below average, but it was hardly horrible.
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| Edgy MD Aug 02 2006 08:43 AM |
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I can think of a few dozen guys without really trying. Instead, I'll just see your Cedeño '03 and raise you a Hundley '98.
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| Vic Sage Aug 02 2006 11:13 AM |
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the thing about Cedeno and Hundley was they were playing out of their natural positions, for a short period.
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| Edgy MD Aug 02 2006 11:55 AM |
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The thing about Nady is I don't buy that he is the worst defensive outfielder that GYC has ever seen.
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| Vic Sage Aug 02 2006 12:09 PM |
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in fact, he's not even the worst defensive OFer on the Mets 40-man roster. Victor Diaz is still on the 40-man roster, right?
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| Benjamin Grimm Aug 08 2006 07:38 AM |
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Lost in all the chatter about the Nady deal is the fact that this leaves the Mets without a player wearing uniform number 22.
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| Edgy MD Aug 08 2006 07:57 AM |
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Ring has worn 22 in the past, i think.
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| Benjamin Grimm Aug 08 2006 07:59 AM |
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Maybe. I'm all for letting go of superstition.
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| Elster88 Aug 13 2006 12:40 AM |
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Another question: What do you think of the idea of trading Mike Cameron for Roberto Hernandez and Oliver Perez?
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| Edgy MD Aug 13 2006 06:12 AM |
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Plus two thirds of a season of Nady (interrupted by appendicitis).
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| Benjamin Grimm Aug 13 2006 06:41 AM |
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Has Oliver Perez pitched for Norfolk yet? How's he doing there?
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| Benjamin Grimm Aug 13 2006 06:43 AM |
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Well, I just looked it up:
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| Elster88 Aug 13 2006 09:14 AM |
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A couple of my Met friend buddies are optimistic about Perez. So seem to be some radio call in folks. So seem to be some people here.
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| Frayed Knot Aug 14 2006 07:40 AM |
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Xavier the Pirate: 11/36 w/4 2Bs; .306/.390/.417
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