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Carlos Bel-TRAN?

MFS62 Aug 09 2006 12:49 PM

That's the way Jon Miller pronounced it the other night. Mets announcers have been pronouncing it BEL-tran. Spanish grammar says you accent the second syllable from the end of a word, unless there is an accent written over the vowel in the last syllable. This week, the New York Times printed Beltran's name (in a headline) with the written accent. That would make Miller's pronunciation correct. First time I'd seen that. Now I'm not sure about how his name should be pronounced. The Times pays its editors a lot of money to be right on things like this. Has anyone lese seen it written with the accent? Later

Nymr83 Aug 09 2006 12:55 PM

yahoo fantasy sports has the ' over the "a"

MFS62 Aug 09 2006 12:59 PM

Then I guess Jon Miller is correct. Scarry thought. Later

Yancy Street Gang Aug 09 2006 01:08 PM

My wife, who knows enough Spanish to know pronounciation, always bristles when she hears BEL-tran, especially when the second syllable rhymes with "man". She says it should be bel-TRAN, with the "TRAN" rhyming with "Ron".

Edgy DC Aug 09 2006 01:16 PM

I always like when peeps bristle when accurate Spanish pronunciations are used.

MFS62 Aug 09 2006 01:17 PM

Yancy Street Gang wrote: My wife, who knows enough Spanish to know pronounciation, always bristles when she hears BEL-tran, especially when the second syllable rhymes with "man". She says it should be bel-TRAN, with the "TRAN" rhyming with "Ron". Yes, the "a" in Spanish is pronounced "ah". I should have remembered that too. Kudos to wifey. Later

Yancy Street Gang Aug 09 2006 01:47 PM

Edgy DC wrote: I always like when peeps bristle when accurate Spanish pronunciations are used. Are you saying that BELL-tran (rhyming with Bell-man) is correct?

Edgy DC Aug 09 2006 02:02 PM

No, I'm saying that non-Spanish speakers who snort when somebody introduces Tony Perez as Tony Pedez, as if they think it's some sort of snobbery to do so, are funny. As if "English-speaking people will decide how Spanish is pronounced in this country, dammit."

KC Aug 09 2006 02:06 PM

Some of the problem is dialect too. My high school teacher taught us to pronounce many things with an upscale Madridian dialect that if used on someone asking a New Yorker about the next bus would think you were a big giant flamer.

Edgy DC Aug 09 2006 02:16 PM

Yup. I got Castilllian Spanish without the lisp, also. I understand the Salvadorans here in DC kinda OK. Among Nuyoriqueños, I was lost.

Yancy Street Gang Aug 09 2006 03:12 PM

Maybe we can ask Jon Miller about "Vanis takee"

Yancy Street Gang Aug 09 2006 03:15 PM

Why ask Jon Miller? Why not ask Google? Scuba Steve seems to have the answer: ]Let me try to get back on track here, what was I talking about? Oh Yeah, walk out music. Every player has a song. For example, every time Carlos Beltran steps to the plate this song "Eres Aqui" comes on. I don't understand a word of it, but I like it. It's catchy. Apparently so does Beltran who has 33 home runs and 96 RBI.

cooby Aug 09 2006 03:16 PM

Here you are? You are here? Are you here?

Yancy Street Gang Aug 09 2006 03:18 PM

According to Google's translate tool, "Eres aqui" means "You are here." (In Japanese, you would say, "Ananta wa koko ni imasu" That one I knew without Google's help!)

Yancy Street Gang Aug 09 2006 03:23 PM

Frayed Knot Aug 09 2006 03:49 PM

]Mets announcers have been pronouncing it BEL-tran Seems to me that Cohen has been pronouncing it bel-TRAHN all along. He's usually pretty good about that stuff.

ScarletKnight41 Aug 09 2006 03:58 PM

If only Carlos were more like Rickey Henderson. Then we'd know how to pronounce it!

Johnny Dickshot Aug 09 2006 03:58 PM

Yes, that's correct. The difference is Miller does his 'trahn' with more flair.

metirish Aug 09 2006 04:02 PM

I'm going to emial SNY's "ask the booth" and hopefully Gary will bring it up on air.

Yancy Street Gang Aug 09 2006 04:03 PM

You think the question will make Gary puke?

Rotblatt Aug 09 2006 04:16 PM

My high school spanish teacher was Cuban. Whenever I try to speak Spanish now, I still use a poor imatation of her inflection. She tried to explain the difference between dialects, but I had a hard time paying attention, because she a) was hot and b) I was (just) 17. If you know what I mean. Anyway, I'm gonna have to agree with the bel-TRAHN pronunciation, even though I always fuck it up. My fiance and I have been talking honeymoons, and we've been mercilessly making fun of each other for our pronunciations of "Buenos Aires." I think the mirth of which you speak, Edgy, is because it sounds kind of silly to go from hardcore american accent to hardcore Spanish accent. Kind of like that Will Ferrell SNL skit where he imitates Dubya giving a speech to Mexican-Americans and he drops the hardcore accent on words like "tacos," "burritos" and "sombrero."

Edgy DC Aug 09 2006 04:28 PM

No doubt gringos sound silly forcing themselves. On the other hand, they shouldn't be busting on bilingual peeps who do it right. We had a valedctory graduation speaker name Carlos Rodriguez, the class after me in college. Peeps were bitter, because it was believed that he only got the honor because the Governor of Puerto Rico was our commencement speaker. Carlos introduced himself, and when he said his name, the s was almost llisped, the initial R in his last name was rolled just a bit, and the second r was largely eclipsed by the d, and he was heavily criticized for this pronunciation when we all knew his English was unaccented. I thought, "Just because he learned to speak English like other Americans doesn't mean he has to speak his Spanish that way," and "It's his name, and if he wants to call himself Carlos Dope P-Moneybags, whatever."

martin Aug 10 2006 12:43 AM

my mexican dooman is nice enough to give listener specific pronounciations for the residents of my building. for instance he says "mexico" to me, but for the spanish speakers in my building he says it like meh-hico. he also prounces alex rodriguez's name much different for me than he does to his friends. i say bel-trahn, thats the best i can do. until today i still thought "eres aqui" might be "perros aqui", which i still think would be a cooler song.

Nymr83 Aug 10 2006 01:22 AM

]"It's his name, and if he wants to call himself Carlos Dope P-Moneybags, whatever." agreed. still strange that some names appear with and without the accent marks, perhaps you can chalk it up to keyboards not having accented letters and lazy writers not wanting to hit alt+0484 or something, but isn't that what editors (or interns) are for?

Elster88 Aug 13 2006 02:45 AM

How do I go about figuring out what Met was the fastest to 100 RBI in one season?

Edgy DC Aug 13 2006 08:20 AM

I don't know if this is satisfying to you, but go to a season in the IMDB in which a guy got 100 RBI --- there weren't that many before Davey Johnson's era. Click on a September boxscore, and at the top of the box, it'll have a link for "Mets Stats Through This Game." Go forward and backward through time until you find the date.

Yancy Street Gang Aug 13 2006 08:40 AM

I'd think that the only candidates would be Gilkey in 1996 or Ventura or Piazza in 1999.

dinosaur jesus Aug 13 2006 10:19 AM

I get Ventura on August 18, 1999, and Piazza on the same date the next year.

Elster88 Aug 13 2006 11:13 AM

Edgy DC wrote: I don't know if this is satisfying to you, but go to a season in the IMDB in which a guy got 100 RBI --- there weren't that many before Davey Johnson's era. Click on a September boxscore, and at the top of the box, it'll have a link for "Mets Stats Through This Game." Go forward and backward through time until you find the date. That's what I figured.

Yancy Street Gang Aug 16 2006 10:34 AM

While I was in the UMDB looking up 3-homer games, I figured I'd provide a definitive answer to this question: The earliest any Mets player reached 100 RBI was in the 122nd game of the season, done by Robin Ventura in 1999 and again by Mike Piazza in 2000. The next-best is game 130, by Todd Hundley in 1996. Bernard Gilkey got there in game 131 of the same year. Next comes Mike Piazza's 1999 season, where he reached 100 RBI in game 132. And I'll end this by mentioning Howard Johnson in 1991, where he reached 100 in game 140. So there you have it.

Elster88 Aug 16 2006 10:42 AM

Beltran's going to cut it close.

TheOldMole Aug 17 2006 03:24 AM

]Spanish grammar says you accent the second syllable from the end of a word, unless there is an accent written over the vowel in the last syllable. Is this right for Spanish? I know it's right for Italian. My mother, who was a stickler for correct pronunciation of all things Italian, used to bristle when anyone talked about the Isle of Ca-PREE.

MFS62 Aug 17 2006 06:33 AM

Si. Later

Edgy DC Aug 29 2006 09:32 PM

Guys in the Colorado booth are talking about the Mets leftfielder, "Endy ChaVEZ."

Yancy Street Gang Aug 29 2006 10:33 PM

I noticed that too. They pronounced it with a Sh sound instead of a Ch. ShaVEZ.

TransMonk Aug 29 2006 10:39 PM

They play in the NL West...the Dodgers play in "Shavez" Ravine. I'm guessing that's where the pronunciation is coming from. Not that it makes it any more correct.

ScarletKnight41 Sep 04 2006 07:09 PM

The last few times I have heard Lolita Lopez, the queen of over-Hispanic pronunciations of everything (most egregious example - she once pronounced Villanova as Villa-nu-ay-vah), she has pronounced Carlos' last name as Bel-tran (rhyming with man). My head is almost ready to explode over that.

Nymr83 Sep 04 2006 07:46 PM

I wish they would take her off tha ir, she is a joke. god bless "Sal's Sports"

ScarletKnight41 Sep 04 2006 07:49 PM

Nymr83 wrote: I wish they would take her off tha ir, she is a joke. god bless "Sal's Sports" My husband would agree with you.

DocTee Sep 04 2006 10:30 PM

A few years back, the A's third baseman asked broadcasters to change their pronunciation of his name from Cha-vez to Sha-vezz at the all-star break. go figure.

TheOldMole Sep 05 2006 09:46 AM

Minnesota Twins shortstop (back when I living in Minnesota) Zorro Ver-sallies asked people not to give him a nickname he didn't want, and to pronounce his last name correctly -- Zoilo Ver-sigh-yez. But the best one was New York Ranger star Walter TAY-chuck, who, after several years as a star with the Broadway Blues, finally informed people that his name was Ka - CHOOK.

Valadius Sep 05 2006 12:04 PM

My grandpa calls him Beltram. He has a habit of mispronouncing names, such as Louie Cuh-STILL-o as opposed to Loo-eese Cass-TEE-o.

MFS62 Sep 05 2006 12:12 PM

I worked with a Yankee fan who used to call the pitcher Musima - even after he had been with the Yanks for several years. Later