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Yanx v Sawx -- Act ... whatever

Frayed Knot
Aug 17 2006 11:02 PM

A 5-game series thanks to an early season rainout.
And, if you look at the game times, it's kinda like a 3-game set followed by a 2-gamer.
First there are 3 games within about 24 hours: Friday is a day/night DH 1:00 & 8:00, with a 1:20 game on Saturday.
They then get a day-and-a-half off before getting the Sunday night game followed by a day game on Monday - 2 games within about 15 hrs.

Fri 1st game: CM Wang vs Jason Johnson
Fri 2nd game: Ponson vs Jon Lester
Sat: Randy Johnson vs Josh Beckett
Sun: Mussina vs Schilling
Mon: Lidle vs Wells

Not surprisingly, ESPN's going hog-wild on this one; picking up the early game on Friday, then Sunday night for their nat'l telescast, and again for Monday's game. FOX gets Saturday's game.

Yanx made a move today, calling up a reliever after Wednesday's starter Cory Lidle went on the 'Bereavement List'. I don't know what the details are but it all sounds a bit too, how you say ... convenient! They get an extra arm in the pen as the #5 starter is unavailable for the 4 days before returning just in time for ... his next start!. Could be a legit reason for it but you just knew this rule would get abused as soon as a strategic edge could be exploited. Maybe the team sent some of his relatives to Mariano's pool.

Yanx start the series with a 1.5 game lead.
Boston had the day off today while the Yanx were getting their butts kicked and their bullpen raked by Baltimore. Torre kept the real pen guys out of the game of course. Dotel got smacked around and he's not gonna see action in a close game any time soon.

Willets Point
Aug 17 2006 11:11 PM

Yankees will sweep en route to ring #27.

metirish
Aug 17 2006 11:12 PM

Go Sox, I can't wait for this series, A-Rod surely talked to his shrink today after him and Jeter got mixed up on a pop fly ,it was great to watch....

Frayed Knot
Aug 17 2006 11:16 PM

Ah yes, the always present fatalistic New Englander.

Wish I felt better about the Sox chances myself - but their pitching is in a bigger mess than the Yanx'.
I suspect we'll get a less-than desisive split of some sort, but the Sawx have put themselves into a spot where they can't afford to fall further behind. There'll be a 4-game series in da Bronx next month.

And to add to the WC implications for whoever does lose this division, the ChiSox are playing the Twins for 3 games this weekend.

Johnny Dickshot
Aug 17 2006 11:25 PM

Someone always says something as dumb and obvious as I'm about to say, but if the Sox can pull out the gay dame tomorrow it will be huge.

But I don;t see how. It's a shame they can't find anythig better than Jason Johnson to go. No wonder they've dropped. The MFYs ought to score 30 runs off this guy.

Gotta be th feeling in Boston that the Sox had their chance to bury the MFYs in April, May and June and simply didn;t do it.

Frayed Knot
Aug 17 2006 11:48 PM

]Gotta be th feeling in Boston that the Sox had their chance to bury the MFYs in April, May and June and simply didn;t do it.


Same as it ever was ...
Same as it ever was ...
Same as it ever was ...

seawolf17
Aug 18 2006 06:18 AM

Willets Point wrote:
Yankees will sweep en route to ring #27.

Thanks for the input, cleon.

sharpie
Aug 18 2006 08:51 AM

I like the Sox using their worst starter against Wang, who has lately been the Yankees best. It would be a miracle if they won that game but it gives them a better chance in the other 4.

MFS62
Aug 18 2006 09:07 AM

Too bad Wakefield is on the DL - he gives them fits.

Later

soupcan
Aug 18 2006 09:49 AM

From Today's NYTimes...

Where Do Rivals Draw the Line?

August 18, 2006
By JOHN BRANCH

THE CITY of New Britain, near the geographical center of Connecticut and the midpoint between New York City and Boston, is home to the Rock Cats, the Minnesota Twins’ Class AA affiliate in the Eastern League. But the Twins do not have much of a fan base in New Britain. As is the case across much of the state, there is a debate in New Britain about which is the more popular team, the Red Sox or the Yankees.

Last summer, the Rock Cats staged a Rivalry Night. They had 2,000 Yankees caps and 2,000 Red Sox caps. Paying customers could choose one.

“The Red Sox caps ran out first, so we declared this Red Sox territory, although it’s probably 51-49,” said Bob Dowling, the team’s media relations director.

A city divided. A region and state, too. But where, exactly?

The idea for this exercise was simple in design but complicated in application: Plot the length of the border between Red Sox Nation and Yankees Country, a sort of Mason-Dixon Line separating baseball’s fiercest rivals, who will play five games in the next four days in Boston.

The midpoint between Fenway Park and Yankee Stadium is approximately Rocky Hill, Conn., a few miles south of Hartford and east of New Britain. Some adventurers have dared to guess where allegiances are perfectly balanced, usually pointing to a place near Route 91, anywhere from north of Hartford to New Haven in the south.

But few have set out on an expedition — Lewis and Clark meet Rand McNally — to draw baseball’s bitterest border, to learn where it makes landfall along Long Island Sound to where it peters out in complacency in upstate New York, a serpentine span of nearly 200 miles.

“The border’s probably as wide as Connecticut,” Tom Brown, a volunteer firefighter in Old Lyme, Conn., said.

But the point was to narrow the boundary until each adjacent town fell to one side or the other. The border would be a continuous line, allowing no recognized islands of hostility in enemy territory. Such bastions would be viewed as anomalies, like Union sympathizers in Tennessee. True borders, after all, are no wider than a dotted line.

Polling a representative sample of people in every town would be impossible, so the method was simplified: Use a company-issued 2002 Pontiac Grand Am to traverse the highways and back roads of Connecticut, New York and Massachusetts. Roll into towns unannounced. Choose a person or group of people — preferably those with a bead on the area, like police officers and firefighters, politicians and postal carriers, bartenders and barbers — to be the proxy for their village. Excuse me, but is this a Yankees town or Red Sox one?

When possible, irrefutable data — a choice of baseball caps, for example, or the sale of team-logo cookies, or an office straw poll — would be used for confirmation.


This one is a Red Sox town? That one is for the Yankees? The border goes between. And so on.

That is how it was determined that the divide goes north of Southington but south of Northfield, that New Haven belongs to the Yankees, New London to the Red Sox.

Connecticut Yankees?

The results of a poll by Connecticut’s Quinnipiac University, released in May, served as a loose guide, like a AAA TripTik. Of those in Connecticut who said they were “somewhat interested” or “very interested” in major league baseball, 42 percent of them claimed the Yankees as their favorite team. The Red Sox were preferred by 35 percent. The Mets, at 12 percent, were a distant third.

Fairfield County, the southwestern spout of Connecticut, which spills toward New York City, belongs to the Yankees, 55 percent to 14 percent.

But five of Connecticut’s eight counties, the poll found, are part of Red Sox Nation. That includes Hartford County, which favors the Red Sox by 52 percent to 30 percent. That jibes with television ratings, which show that the Red Sox usually get a larger audience in the area.

The first goal of the expedition was to determine where the border crosses the Connecticut shoreline, hugged by Route 95. A pair of Lids stores, which sell a large variety of caps, revealed that it begins somewhere on the 55-mile stretch between Exit 39B and Exit 82.

At the Connecticut Post Mall in Milford, west of New Haven, a wall near the register was dominated by classic Yankees caps and about 40 variations. Red Sox caps were displayed on the low racks, like bargain cereal in the supermarket aisle.

“It’s supply and demand,” the assistant manager Luis Sanchez said. He wore a Yankees cap. “Obviously, the Yankees hats are doing their thing.”

An hour later, at the Crystal Mall in Waterford, near New London, the Lids store was dominated by Red Sox caps.

It prompted the first of countless U-turns. Focus shifted to the Connecticut River.

“In one word: brackish,” said Joan Welch of the Wheatmarket deli in Chester, applying the term both to the river — near its mouth, a mix of seawater and fresh water — and to the baseball allegiances that it symbolically dissects.

Old Saybrook sits on the west side of the river. The executive director of its chamber of commerce, Linanne Lee, said she thought the town leaned toward the Yankees. The office manager Judy Sullivan, a Yankees fan, said it leaned toward the Red Sox. After much deliberation, it was decided: Line the streets of Old Saybrook with pinstripes, but do it faintly.

Across the river, members of the Old Lyme volunteer fire department, in two engines with lights flashing and sirens blaring, rushed to the Hideaway Restaurant and Pub. A car in the parking lot had a gas leak and could not be towed until it was examined.

Inside the Hideaway, a television showed the Yankees playing an afternoon game. Two others showed a tape of the Red Sox game from the night before. Outside, 10 firefighters stood in the midday sun. Six of them liked the Red Sox, three the Yankees. One, perhaps a Mets fan, abstained.

Cookie-Cutter Answers

The baseball border quickly abandons the river. There is little doubt that everything east of the Connecticut River leans to the Red Sox. But crossing to the west on the Chester-Hadlyme Ferry, the river-as-border theory crumbles like a cookie at Kristen Lynn Bakery in Chester.

The owner Kristen Ehrlich makes cookies shaped like ball caps, frosted with near-perfect logos of the Yankees and the Red Sox.

“I make the Yankees when they run out, but I’m making the Red Sox all the time,” she said. “The Red Sox are definitely the better seller.”

Backtracking again found that the border bends sharply west from the river’s mouth, back along I-95. The Yankees claim most of the beach towns. The Red Sox scoop up many inland villages, which feel quintessentially New England rather than metropolitan New York.

The border swings back to the river at aptly named Middletown. Employees at Bill’s Sport Shop said the city favored the Yankees, thanks to its substantial, but aging, Italian-American population, fans who once rooted for DiMaggio, Berra and Rizzuto.

But Eli Cannon’s, a tavern where regulars keep their mugs hanging behind the bar, was filled largely with Red Sox fans.

Five firefighters and a paramedic watching darkness fall outside the station on Main Street debated the topic — three said Yankees, three said Red Sox — until an alarm sent them scurrying.

Brian O’Connor broke the tie. A state representative and a director of the Middlesex County Chamber of Commerce, he risked alienating his Red Sox constituents and put Middletown on the Yankees side.

North of Middletown, in Cromwell, a woman flipping eggs on the grill at Mama Roux’s Kitchen declared the area Yankees Country. She could tell by the T-shirts worn by customers.

In the next town to the north, Rocky Hill, near the edge of Hartford’s sprawl, employees at the post office said the town was part of Red Sox Nation. More evidence was provided by the post office’s sales of team-logo door magnets: Red Sox 15, Yankees 12.

Rocky Hill is where the border takes a hard turn west, toward New Britain and then Bristol.

Thrown a Curve

Satellite dishes, part of the vast ESPN complex, stand sentry to Bristol’s east side. Chris LaPlaca, ESPN’s senior vice president for communications, placed Bristol on the Red Sox side. Bristol was the home of the Bristol Red Sox, who moved to New Britain and later became the Rock Cats, helping to tinge the area red.

South of Bristol is Southington, where Yankees pitcher Carl Pavano grew up and, with little debate, a Yankees town.

As the border ducks into the hills of western Connecticut, there seemed no better place to break the near-deadlock in Terryville, a border town, than the Lock Museum of America. Alas, on this afternoon, during posted business hours, the museum was closed — and locked.

Reached at home, the museum’s curator, Tom Hennessy, put tiny Terryville in the Red Sox camp with conviction, enough to throw away the key.

From Terryville, the border curves north again and forms a backward “S” across Route 8. In Torrington, a query at the aptly named Yankee Pedlar Inn was deferred to Dick’s Restaurant. In this narrow throwback of a bar, a wall is lined with Yankees memorabilia, including photographs of the restaurant owner, Raymond Colangelo, with famous Yankees, like Mickey Mantle. Colangelo, known as Brooklyn, grew up in Torrington and has been at Dick’s for 43 years. Torrington is a Yankees town, he said.

It is there that tracing the border through the hilly northwest corner of Connecticut becomes tricky, the result of a decrease in population and an increase in apathy. The Quinnipiac poll found 64 percent of Litchfield County residents were “not at all” interested in baseball — a number 20 points higher than any other part of the state.

Still, patrons at the Speckled Hen Pub in Norfolk quickly dubbed the town part of Red Sox Nation. Against the Massachusetts border a few miles northwest, at the Steppin’ Stone, a restaurant in Canaan, it was agreed that that town was part of Yankees Country.

This is the area where the swerves of the baseball boundary harden into straight lines. A Red Sox town in New York is more likely than a Yankees town in Massachusetts, though the state line seems built on baseball as much as colonial politics.

Kristin Keeler was raised in Hillsdale, N.Y., minutes from Massachusetts. From behind the counter at Hillsdale Electronics, she professed her hometown’s allegiance to the Yankees.

A few miles east over the hills, Sheffield, Mass., is closer to New York City than to Boston, but its heart is with the Red Sox.

“It’s 157 miles to Yawkey Way,” said Edward Gulotta, who runs a Mobile gas station with his brother, Tony, referring to the street address of Fenway Park. “We’re pretty loyal to the state.”

Inside, above the candy racks, were framed photographs of the 2004 World Series trophy taken in front of the station when the team took the trophy on a statewide tour. A nearby shelf held disposable lighters decorated with the Yankees logo. There were none with the Red Sox emblem.

“That’s a good test,” Tony Gulotta said. “We had the same number of Red Sox lighters. And these are still here.”

His brother lifted one. “These cost $100, and they don’t work,” he said.

Next door, five people worked inside town hall, and all were Red Sox fans. Only the absent tax collector was a Yankees fan, threatening his popularity on two counts.

A few miles north, in Great Barrington, a police officer, Paul Montgomery, directed traffic around a large hole in the street where workers were repairing a water pipe. Red Sox, he declared without hesitation. And two out of three workers agreed.

Beyond Borders

Still, there are complicated allegiances in the Berkshires region of western Massachusetts, especially during baseball season. Dan Duquette, the former Red Sox general manager, runs a sports academy in Hinsdale, where the population doubles in the summer.

“You get a number of New Yorkers who spend summers here,” Duquette said. “When you get all these transplanted New Yorkers up here, you can almost get more Yankees fans.”

But not quite. WBRK, a Pittsfield radio station, broadcasts Yankees games, and the station’s president, Chip Hodgkins, estimates that there is nearly a 50-50 split in the area’s allegiances. Pressed, he conceded a 60-40 split, advantage to the Red Sox. In the end, the search found no Massachusetts town outside Red Sox Nation.

But a couple of New York towns might fall to the Red Sox side. New Lebanon is about a mile from the state line, a quick jaunt from Pittsfield. Several stops — at the fire station, a coffee shop and a bar — were met with conflicting responses. At the post office, three employees delivered the town’s allegiance to the Red Sox. A customer claimed it for the Yankees, and a teenager in a Yankees cap deemed it too close to call.

A more telling sign was needed. On a house across the street, a Red Sox flag hung from the porch.

Farther north, along the Vermont state line, the crowd at Helvi’s BBQ in Hoosick, N.Y. — where a full pig was baking in a barbecue set on a trailer hitched to a truck, ready to be taken to a party — leaned toward the Red Sox. Nearby Hoosick Falls, however, was firmly in the Yankees camp.

To see if the Yankees had moved deep into New England, a side trip to nearby Bennington, Vt., found it in Red Sox Nation.

“I have to go to Hoosick to watch the games,” said a lone Yankees fan at Carmody’s Irish Pub. He was headed there that night.

The border extends north, surely, and probably a little west, perhaps beyond Lake Champlain and into Canada. But allegiances are dulled by distance, and every mile on the Grand Am — 600 and counting on this expedition — was met with diminishing returns.

Increasingly, there were no exact answers. Only debatable ones. As it should be.

silverdsl
Aug 18 2006 09:49 AM

Very true about Wakefield.

Lidle's grandmother died.

As long as A-Rod and Jeter manage to figure out how to catch pop-ups like any little leaguer knows, then hopefully the Yankees will be okay.

Johnny Dickshot
Aug 18 2006 11:15 AM

Whaddaya say we IGT this bad boy.

MFYs
Damon, CF
Jeter, SS
Abreu, RF
Roid Abusing Fat Guy w/ New Gay Mustache, DH
Gayrod, 3B
Cano, 2B
Dumbo, C
Wilson, 1B
9. Melky, LF
P -- Wang

Sox
Coco Crispies, CF
Loretta, 2B
Papi, DH
Manny LF
Youkilis, 1B
Lowell, 3B
Hinske, RF
Javy Lopez, C
Alex Gonzalez, SS
P -- Jason Johnson

metirish
Aug 18 2006 11:19 AM

Cool idea,I wonder if A-Rod looks forward to this series or dreads it,articles in local papers today say this is the series he can become a hero....yawn.

MFS62
Aug 18 2006 11:27 AM

I hope when Javy sees "New York" on the opponent's uni, he thinks he's hitting against the Mets. That fukker always seemed to kill Met pitching in key spots.

That's why I wrote the following:
]Another tribute to those masters of song, the Village People.

If your team is losin’
the Braves they are abusin’
your pitching staff; in every way.
There is this young hitter,
who can make you bitter,
hitting each and every day.

Freakin’ Javy!
He can tick off every fan.
Freakin’ Javy!
He’s a boy who hits like man.
Freakin’ Javy!
He can stymie every plan.
Freakin’ Javy!
Freakin’ Javy!

All our pitchers fear him,
We never throw it near him,
All we do is pitch away.
Our ERA was little,
He’ll just smash it up the middle,
And Los Bravos win the day.

Freakin’ Javy!
He can hit with power, too.
Freakin’ Javy!
We don’t know what we can do.
Freakin’ Javy!
Can his Green Card not renew?
Freakin’ Javy!
Freakin’ Javy!

He- beats- you.
He- beats - you.
He- beats - you.
Freakin’ Javy!
Freakin’ Jaaaayyyveeee!
(music fades)




Later

duan
Aug 18 2006 11:37 AM

that'll be most entertaining evening fare for me.

Willets Point
Aug 18 2006 11:55 AM

metirish wrote:
Cool idea,I wonder if A-Rod looks forward to this series or dreads it,articles in local papers today say this is the series he can become a hero....yawn.


Maybe he can homer in each game and otherwise be on fire while the rest of the team hits a collective .087 and the Yankees pitchers get lit up and the Red Sox win.

That would be delicious. Would Yankees fans say he's the only Yankee trying or that he's padding his stats while true Yankees struggle?

MFS62
Aug 18 2006 12:00 PM

WP, I had those exact thoughts.
We can only hope it turns out that way.

It would be a situation that would make most Yankee fans' heads explode.


Later

metirish
Aug 18 2006 01:29 PM

MFY's up a run already,no idea how they scored it....

MFS62
Aug 18 2006 01:31 PM

I started a formal IGT. Thought folks might not find it in this one.

Later

Johnny Dickshot
Aug 18 2006 02:21 PM

Damon led off the game with a triple and scored on a Jeter single. Johnson worked out of what looked like a much worse inning by getting Giam bi and Gayrod to pop out.

Sox have threatened a few times since then on 2 Loretta doubles but Papi has popped out and lined out following him.

Now bases are loaded with Sox, 2 out for Lowell.

Johnny Dickshot
Aug 18 2006 02:25 PM

Dagnabbit Lowell.

Johnny Dickshot
Aug 18 2006 02:29 PM

I give up.

Willets Point
Aug 18 2006 02:33 PM

]I give up.


Is that because the Yankees are spanking the Red Sox now in their inevitable march to a World Championship?

MFS62
Aug 18 2006 02:36 PM

Willets Point wrote:
]I give up.


Is that because the Yankees are spanking the Red Sox now in their inevitable march to a World Championship?

Radio personality Bob Grant used to call them the "New York Inevitibles".

Later

metirish
Aug 18 2006 02:39 PM

Sox score on a ground out to short,Hinske scored from 3rd.

Johnny Dickshot
Aug 18 2006 02:41 PM

Willets Point wrote:
]I give up.


Is that because the Yankees are spanking the Red Sox now in their inevitable march to a World Championship?


Nah, it was that we had as many IGTs as people in the room.

seawolf17
Aug 18 2006 02:42 PM

GameCast currently pictures Craig Wilson, in a Pirates hat, facing Jason Johnson, in an Indians hat. Way to go, World Sports Leader.

metirish
Aug 18 2006 02:45 PM

Craig Wilson strikes out looking again.....that's twice today....

metirish
Aug 18 2006 02:47 PM

Damon with a two run homer.....shit

Elster88
Aug 18 2006 02:53 PM

Score?

Frayed Knot
Aug 18 2006 02:55 PM

Now 4-1
Johnson was chased after the Damon HR and several more singles.
Some other re-tread is trying to get them out of the 5th still.

metirish
Aug 18 2006 02:56 PM

4-1 MFY...


Sox pull the starter and some fella named Kyle Snyder gives up a hit to the Balco fella...

Elster88
Aug 18 2006 02:57 PM

What's the latest words on Sheff and Matsui?

Johnny Dickshot
Aug 18 2006 02:58 PM

Elster88 wrote:
What's the latest words on Sheff and Matsui?


User and Loser.

metirish
Aug 18 2006 02:58 PM

Last I read Sheff is in no hurry to come back and Matsui is soft tossing...whatever that is.

Elster88
Aug 18 2006 03:01 PM

I kinda like Godzilla.

metirish
Aug 18 2006 03:03 PM

Inning over...4-1.....

A-Rod must be having a bad day,he flies out to center with runners on first and third.

Frayed Knot
Aug 18 2006 03:12 PM

A Manny HR cuts the lead to 4-2 after 5

Frayed Knot
Aug 18 2006 03:22 PM

Eric Hinske having a nice Bosox debut with his 3rd double of the game.

Tying runs on, none out in the 6th.

metirish
Aug 18 2006 03:23 PM

Runners on second and third with no outs for Javy Lopez,first time ever I am rooting for him,and he grounds out to the pitcher,,,,damn

Johnny Dickshot
Aug 18 2006 03:24 PM

Evidently unlucky bounce to make that a gr-double, otherwise Lowell scores.

Johnny Dickshot
Aug 18 2006 03:25 PM

Gonzalez sac fly RBI, 4-3.

Johnny Dickshot
Aug 18 2006 03:27 PM

Jeez, Coco. Straighten your damn hat and stop being such an easy out.

Johnny Dickshot
Aug 18 2006 03:42 PM

Of course, the error that should have been the second out is shoved far up the RS asses.

seawolf17
Aug 18 2006 03:43 PM

And A-Rod gets the first vaguely clutch hit of his major league career, driving in a run to make it 6-3.

Elster88
Aug 18 2006 03:46 PM

He hit a GWHR a couple weeks ago. Or was your SC = high?

Frayed Knot
Aug 18 2006 03:51 PM

Sox pen gives up 43 hits in a row (that may be a bit off) and it's now 8-3 heading for the bottom of the 7th and heading for a 4 hour game.

Frayed Knot
Aug 18 2006 10:04 PM

Two hours into the 2nd Yanx-Sawx game and it's in the 4th inning, 7-5 Yanquis but the Boston boys are threatening.

Both starters (Lester & Pontoon ... I mean Ponson) are gone.


Now 7-6 as Papi gets one in on an FC
And Torre's leaving the lefty Villone in to face Manny ... who promptly ties the game on the first pitch he sees.

This one may go until they're ready to start tomorrow's tilt.

metirish
Aug 18 2006 10:18 PM

Damn but I like Jim Kaat, Leiter talking about Bernie Williams said blah blah blah Bernie is not making big money this year....Kaat.....he's not?..really...he's making more than a million isn't he?.....

Frayed Knot
Aug 18 2006 10:21 PM

This is probably Kaat's last year in the booth (see Msuhnick's NYPost article Friday) which is too bad because he's my favorite guy on NYY telecasts.

But he's now 68 and has been in baseball in one form or another; playing, coaching, announcing, since sometime in the mid/late '50s.

SteveJRogers
Aug 18 2006 10:25 PM

metirish wrote:
Damn but I like Jim Kaat, Leiter talking about Bernie Williams said blah blah blah Bernie is not making big money this year....Kaat.....he's not?..really...he's making more than a million isn't he?.....


To be fair, it seems to be a common thing these days to think of seven figure saleries as not "big money" in the world of sports

metirish
Aug 18 2006 10:38 PM

Sox up 10 to 7 now, Steve I know what you are saying, I just liked the fact that Kaat jumped on Leiter when he said that, Al felt the need to pretty much say what you wrote after that.

metirish
Aug 18 2006 11:44 PM

Jeter with another huge hit and the yanks take the lead back 11 to 10.....

Frayed Knot
Aug 19 2006 01:09 PM

That was 9 hours worth of suck yesterday.

metirish
Aug 19 2006 03:18 PM

Looks like another long day at Fenway as the Sox tie the game up at 5 in the fifth.

ScarletKnight41
Aug 19 2006 03:38 PM

And the MFYs take the lead again :(

metirish
Aug 19 2006 03:42 PM

Beckett was brutal ,he walked nine and leads the league with home runs given up, and the eegit brought in for Beckett walks in another run....hey Peter Gammons is at the park....great to see that.

metirish
Aug 19 2006 03:45 PM

Posada clears the bases with a triple, damn.

Frayed Knot
Aug 19 2006 05:03 PM

Sox = Pathetic
In fact, if you count the 'Mets Classic' currently running on SNY, they're sucking on two different channels at once right now.

They've walked about a billion Yanx so far this weekend and have given up 2-out hits all over the place.

Damon's absolutely killing his old team.

Johnny Dickshot
Aug 19 2006 05:55 PM

I hat baseball.

The Sox absolutely buried us back in June. We absolutely buiried the MFYs in May.

That the Sox failed to bury the MFYs between May and June sucks swollen duck scrotum.

OlerudOwned
Aug 19 2006 05:57 PM

Johnny Dickshot wrote:
I hat baseball.

The Sox absolutely buried us back in June. We absolutely buiried the MFYs in May.

That the Sox failed to bury the MFYs between May and June sucks swollen duck scrotum.

And they're getting embarassed by Orosco on SNY right now.

Frayed Knot
Aug 20 2006 11:35 AM

I don't want to say that the pitching's been bad in this series but 3 hurlers who have appeared this weekend have already been released:
The Sox have dumped starter Jason Johnson & reliever Rudy Seanez off their roster, while the Yanx DFA'd starter/reliever Sidney Ponson

metirish
Aug 20 2006 08:16 PM

Here we go again....this MFY team wears out pitchers....if the Sox can take two that will be big.

ScarletKnight41
Aug 20 2006 08:56 PM

The heavens are having trouble with the concept of the Red Sox lead - it's raining, with hail expected.

metirish
Aug 20 2006 08:57 PM

Just what the Sox didn't need, if the delay is for a while then will they go back to Schilling?,surely the Sox pen is shot....or at the least they should be shot.

metirish
Aug 20 2006 09:00 PM

During the delay John Kruk is doing colour commentry for the sports highlights....brillaint..Kruk knows golf.

MFS62
Aug 20 2006 09:08 PM

If you want to know how bad the Red Sox have been, just look at what happened in yesterday's game. Yankee catcher Jorge Posada had both a triple and a stolen base.

Posada may be the slowest creature to inhabit the Planet Earth. There are mollusks that move faster than Posada.

So, in case you missed this, let me repeat it.

Posada had both a triple and a stolen base in yesterday's game.

Man, the Red Sox are bad.

Later

metirish
Aug 20 2006 10:52 PM

Ortiz with another monster blast to take the Sox to a 5 to 4 lead...was that Johnny Pesky that Ortiz hugged in the dugout after he came back...very cool if it was.

metirish
Aug 20 2006 10:59 PM

My bad, it's 4-3 Sox.

seawolf17
Aug 21 2006 10:14 AM

It chafes me to say this, but congrats to the MFYs on another freaking division title.

metirish
Aug 21 2006 11:49 AM

Craig Hanson got sent back to Pawtucket today,that's four pitchers the Sox either demoted or designated for assignment since Friday afternoon.

Centerfield
Aug 21 2006 11:57 AM

If they win today, they'll only be 4.5 out with ten days left in August. I know that's plenty of time, but I can't see how they recover from this weekend.

MFS62
Aug 21 2006 12:00 PM

Even if Torre or one of the Yankee players makes a public "Are they still in the league?" kind of comment, I doubt the Sox could recover from this weekend.

Later

Edgy DC
Aug 21 2006 12:03 PM

Sure they could. Come on. They recovered from a three-game defecit in three games in the 2004 ALCS.

I still think the Phillies were phleeced in the Abreu deal, but, if the Yankees win another division in 2006, it's enough for me to know that the Braves will not.

Willets Point
Aug 21 2006 01:12 PM

I think there's too much overconfidence in the Mets here.
Braves can still win the division, especially with the Mets falling to pieces.

OlerudOwned
Aug 21 2006 01:16 PM

Even if he did wind up giving the lead back (Thanks to Cap'n Clutch's AMAZING jam-shot, duck snort of a flare that fell infront of Gabe the Body), I'd have to say Papelbon is one of my favorite non-Met players. That 8th inning was insanity.

Yancy Street Gang
Aug 21 2006 01:17 PM

Willets Point wrote:
I think there's too much overconfidence in the Mets here.
Braves can still win the division, especially with the Mets falling to pieces.


Forget about it. The Mets are in the playoffs.

Frayed Knot
Aug 21 2006 01:20 PM

Hansen & Timlin absolutely killed the Sox out of the pen this weekend. Seanez & Tavarez did too but it was kind of expected from them. Timlin's been a big part of that pen for a few years now and Hansen was expected to be after being widely rumored to be 1st round draft bait for both local teams last year (local boy and all - Glen Cove, St Johns) but both crashed and burned.
More than a few columnists worte how the Yanx "blew it" by not selecting him last year as they assumed that his path to shut-down closer/set-up man was only a matter a weeks or months away.
Now, 14 months later, he's struggling to even establish himself as a ML player.

MFS62
Aug 21 2006 01:55 PM

In case anyone's interested in Monday's game, its 0-0 after 2 1/2.

Later

MFS62
Aug 21 2006 02:12 PM

Tag. Someone else take it for a while. Yahoo is all screwed up.
The Yanks had runners on first and second with nobody out. A-Rod grounded into a DP, then Cano (batting fifth against a lefty) grounded out to end the inning. Then the site refreshed and it showed tow on with A-Rod coming up again. Maybe they want to give him another chance.

Later

Yancy Street Gang
Aug 21 2006 02:15 PM

The result of this game hardly matters. The Red Sox is dead. My dream of the Mets in the playoffs and the Yankees at home will have to be deferred another year.

I'm so tired of having to count on the Red Sox, all the way back to 1978 and Bucky Dent. I'd love to see the Blue Jays or Orioles get it together and become a power in that division.

Yancy Street Gang
Aug 21 2006 02:30 PM

Yahoo IM sees White Sox as a spelling error, but not Red Sox.

It likes Yankees and Expos, but not Mets, Phillies, or Dodgers.

Centerfield
Aug 21 2006 02:35 PM

Red Sox looking dead as they are being no-hit by Cory freakin' Lidle.

Johnny Dickshot
Aug 21 2006 02:38 PM

Let's not sell them short: Ortiz had an infield single in the 1st.

Of course Offense is the last thing wrong with the Red Sox, even tho Coco suxxxxx.

Centerfield
Aug 21 2006 02:40 PM

My mistake. ESPN Game Update says no hits for the Sox.

No hits, no chance, no hope.

Willets Point
Aug 21 2006 02:58 PM

This sux. This season had so much promise but it seems to be heading back into a rerun of the late 90's, early oughts.

metirish
Aug 21 2006 03:02 PM

Both teams are heading out West, Sox to play LA,Seattle and Oakland, Yanks play Seattle and LA,Boston better wake up.

Edgy DC
Aug 21 2006 03:09 PM

Lopez reaches on an error by Green (because the Yanks are too politically afraid to let Rodriguez even be a backup shortstop) and Peña singles.

Edgy DC
Aug 21 2006 03:10 PM

But Lopez continues the kind of disastrous season that makes me appreciate Piazza more every day.

Edgy DC
Aug 21 2006 03:12 PM

Rally fizz.

Hillbilly
Aug 21 2006 03:23 PM

It's official! I hat them both. Go Tigers! Go Pale Hose! Go Twins!

Frayed Knot
Aug 21 2006 03:41 PM

]Of course Offense is the last thing wrong with the Red Sox, even tho Coco suxxxxx.


Nice to see that after scoring about a million runs over the weekend (but giving up a billion) they pick today to get shut down by Cory Freakin Lidle and crew during their one and only good pitching performance.

The difference between Coco & Damon has been massive this week as well. Part of the overall diff was because Coco got hurt opening week but even since then he's got a .320-ish OBP and - despite his stunning, game-saving catch against Wright - there have been a ton of hits this week which fell justoutofthereach of a running/leaping/lunging Crisp.

Rotblatt
Aug 21 2006 03:42 PM

U-G-L-Y. I'm embarassed for RS nation.

Their pitching is an insane mess right now and I don't even know where you begin to fix it. Probably with firing your pitching coach. Not that that will do anything unless they have some kind of genius in the wings, but at least it's a start . . .

Fuck the Yankees. And like Hillbilly says, fuck the Red Sox too.

Twins all the way to the World Series, baby. If they scrap out the WC berth, they're going to tear through the playoffs with a healthy Liriano, Santana & Radke.

Sure, they'll be more dangerous for us than Chicago or Detroit, but oh what a series that would be . . .

Centerfield
Aug 21 2006 04:09 PM

Wow, Farnsworth in for the 9th instead of Rivera. Torre leaving the door just slightly ajar on the Sox.

Centerfield
Aug 21 2006 04:14 PM

Never mind. Red Sox stub their toe and slam it shut.

Willets Point
Aug 21 2006 04:16 PM

Willets Point wrote:
Yankees will sweep en route to ring #27.


I'm the Nostradomus of Suck. I can accurately predict all the things I don't want to happen.

Willets Point
Aug 21 2006 06:11 PM



Imagine how insufferable they'll be win the Yankees win the WS.

Gwreck
Aug 21 2006 09:17 PM

Willets Point wrote:

Imagine how insufferable they'll be win the Yankees win the WS.


I'm with Dickshot on this. Quit being a defeatist loooser.

ScarletKnight41
Aug 21 2006 09:37 PM

That's not what Willets is doing. He's playing the negative karma.

SteveJRogers
Aug 21 2006 09:48 PM

ScarletKnight41 wrote:
That's not what Willets is doing. He's playing the negative karma.


It worked for me but I got the same response with the "Congratulations 2006 NL East Champs posts"

Think we should leave the Karma to Earl Hickey!

SteveJRogers
Aug 21 2006 09:55 PM

Hillbilly wrote:
It's official! I hat them both. Go Tigers! Go Pale Hose! Go Twins!


I agree here. The Sox seem to be caught up in some sort of Mets style of trying to win while rebuilding, heard Shaugnessey use the old argument NY mediots say about NY teams "You can't rebuild here!"

I'm now rooting for the Blue Jays and O's, if not to surge in September (well Jays are 4 back of the Sox and the O's, uh not so much) and end the Yanks-Sox run of 1-2 every year since 1998, but in 2007 be the two team race in the AL Least

Edgy DC
Aug 21 2006 09:56 PM

I'm catching the ninth of the 11-10 Oakland-Toronto game. Oakland came back from an 8-0 hole and John Gibbons was. not. happy.

TORONTO (AP) -Blue Jays manager John Gibbons wound up with a bloody nose after tangling with Toronto pitcher Ted Lilly near the dugout during Monday night's game against Oakland.

It was not known whether any punches were thrown.

Lilly was pulled in the third inning, when the Athletics scored seven runs to close to 8-7. Gibbons chewed out the pitcher, who refused to give him the ball.

When Lilly left the mound for the locker room, Gibbons followed him. A team trainer and a number of players then ran down the stairs of the tunnel leading to the clubhouse.

Cameramen near the dugout saw Gibbons push Lilly first. A television camera later showed Gibbons with a bloody nose.

Gibbons challenged Shea Hillenbrand to a fight in July after the infielder wrote on the clubhouse bulletin board that the "ship was sinking.'' The Blue Jays designated Hillenbrand for assignment during the game and later traded him to San Francisco.

SteveJRogers
Aug 21 2006 09:59 PM

Maybe Gibbons is pissed he missed out on at least being discussed for an invitation to the 1986 reunion!

Zvon
Aug 21 2006 10:43 PM

Gibbons must think fightin with your players is one of a managers responsibilities.
When Hillenbrand had that run in with Gibbons he was painted as the problem.
Now this incedent kind of makes you wonder.

Edgy DC
Aug 21 2006 10:54 PM

Where's the call to acquire Ted Lilly?

Johnny Dickshot
Aug 21 2006 11:06 PM

I don't doubt for a second that Shea Hillenbrand and Ted Lilly are both asstards. But when a manager is fighting any two of his guys within a month, it's already too late to fire him.

The Jays might be more disappointing than the Red Sox in the East.

MFS62
Aug 22 2006 06:44 AM

Lilly has been in the majors for a while, and I remember he had the same problem (not holding a lead and burning the bullpen) when he first came up. I'm sure pitching coaches have tried everything to correct whatever is the problem. Maybe a good ol' butt kicking will work.

Later

Centerfield
Aug 22 2006 10:34 AM

Following protocol, the Rags put Jeter on the cover since the MFY's won (even though he had no role in yesterday's game). A-Rod pictures in reserve for the next MFY loss.

Frayed Knot
Aug 22 2006 01:16 PM

The canonization of Jeter went into overdrive mode yesterday.

On both radio and TV I heard that he put a headlock on the MVP race on account of this series as if he were the sole reason for the sweep.
Yeah, he had a couple of big hits over the weekend, but y'know who else did? .... EVERYONE!!!!
Giambi homered twice and knocked in 4 in the game 4 extra-inning win (including the game-winner) yet Jeter was being lauded for his "clutch bloop". Jeter had a bases-clearing 2B which helped break open a game ... and so did Posada ... and so did ARod.
Meanwhile, Abreu was on base around 75% of the time and he and Damon were, without a doubt, the best offensive players out there.

But, of course, none of the others has the same pre-written story about them just waiting for an excuse to run it.

Centerfield
Aug 22 2006 01:27 PM

MVP? Jeter isn't even the best shortstop in the league. Jeter is at .336, 10 HR, 76 RBI (OPS .882). Tejada is at .330, 20 HR's, and 86 RBI (OPS .906).

Yancy Street Gang
Aug 22 2006 01:30 PM

Tejada's not a winner, though.

Centerfield
Aug 22 2006 01:33 PM

That must be why he doesn't have a cologne.

Edgy DC
Aug 22 2006 01:33 PM

Bull. If Jeter doesn't win, it's anti-Yankee bias, and that's all there is to it.

Yancy Street Gang
Aug 22 2006 01:38 PM

Centerfield wrote:
That must be why he doesn't have a cologne.


I bet he doesn't even have toilet water!

MFS62
Aug 22 2006 01:49 PM

Funny stuff.
If you folks are going to continue this way, please let me know so I can take my sarcasm tolerance pills.

Later

metsmarathon
Aug 22 2006 02:31 PM

Centerfield wrote:
MVP? Jeter isn't even the best shortstop in the league. Jeter is at .336, 10 HR, 76 RBI (OPS .882). Tejada is at .330, 20 HR's, and 86 RBI (OPS .906).


according to baseballprospectus...
tejada's VORP is 57.0
jeter's is at 56.7, and is a lot higher than i expected.

reyes is at 42.7, btw, 4th among shortstops (guillen 48.1)

and beltran sits above them all, with a clean 60.

Johnny Dickshot
Aug 22 2006 02:35 PM

Yer eyes will pop when you see Oliver Perez with a 58 VORP in 2004.

Willets Point
Aug 22 2006 04:22 PM

What's a VORP?

metirish
Aug 22 2006 04:25 PM

It's explained here.....

http://www.stathead.com/bbeng/woolner/vorpdescnew.htm

Willets Point
Aug 22 2006 04:27 PM

So is a 58 VORP good?

Johnny Dickshot
Aug 22 2006 04:28 PM

Value
Over
Replacement
Player

It expresses how much better a guy performs, expressed in runs, over a typical "replacement player" i.e.: A stiff from the waiver wire who'd take his place if he went away.

Think of "replacement player" performing slightly below average.

Edgy DC
Aug 22 2006 04:33 PM

A little more than a little, isn't it?

When they first started laying out this stat, I seem to remember a rough guide being to estimate a replacement-level OPS at 60% of league average. So a guy with a 64 OPS+ would have a positive (albeit tiny) offensive VORP, but a guy with a 56 OPS+ would not.

Frayed Knot
Aug 22 2006 04:54 PM

Back to Jeter for a second;

Look, he's having a terrific season and deserves to at least be in the discussion of year-end awards if things continue as they are.
It's just so damn frustrating to hear people - some of whom could even have votes - discuss his 9th inning RBI bloop hit as if an award clincher. "Because that's what Jeter does", said Washington' Post/ESPN's Michael Wilbon ... and I can't even go into the lapping that went on with Joe Badabingo and partner du jour yesterday; "it's a joke that he hasn't already won several" considering how clutch he is.

It's this 'proof by anecdote' method that drives me nuts, as if Joe Mauer's higher BA on a team that steamed back into a race in the toughest division in MLB by winning something like 40 of 50 couldn't possibly have produced as many BIG hits as Jeter since us NYC-ers don't see him as often.
In some minds this is strictly down to Jeter vs Ortiz and Jeter sealed it this weekend because he proved (all together now) that he's a winner!!!!

Willets Point
Aug 24 2006 08:41 AM

Yankees-Red Sox Rivalry Running Dangerously Low On Storylines.

Rotblatt
Aug 24 2006 10:49 AM

The worst part of the Jeter bullshit is that if the Sox don't make the playoffs, Ortiz is pretty much out, which almost makes Jeter a shoe-in, even though there are way more deserving guys than BOTH of them out there.

Morneau & Mauer both need to be considered for any MVP award. Morneau's batting .317 with 31 HR and 108 RBI, which will appeal to the old-skool voters, and he's got a .956 OPS and 43.2 VORP (he's hurt by the large number of dominant 1Bs out there).

Mauer, meanwhile, is on his way to winning the batting title while playing beyond stellar defense at catcher and has amassed the fifth-best VORP in the AL at 56.7--just below Ortiz & Tejada's 57.3's.

Manny, IMO, would be a better choice than either of them (1.076 OPS, 63.8 VORP and he plays on the field.), but since his team isn't likely to make the playoffs and the Ortiz hype is overwhelming, he's got almost as slim a chance as Mauer does.

Travis Hafner, however, is the guy who should probably win it.

.310 AVG / .436 OBP (2nd in league) / .660 SLG (leads league) / 1.095 OPS (leads league), 39 HR (2nd in league), 111 RBI (2nd in league), 75.1 VORP (leads league by a lot).

He's the most dominant power threat in the game right now by a lot, yet he gets no play in the discussions. It's a crying shame he's on such a crappy team in such a tough division.

Over in the NL, it should probably go to Pujols again (leads the majors in OPS and is second only to Hafner in VORP) but Beltran's definitely a worthy alternative, since he plays stellar defense in a difficult position AND has serious speed--his 15 SB have to count in the discussion.

Yancy Street Gang
Aug 24 2006 10:51 AM

Wow. This shows how far I've fallen as a baseball fan, and narrowed my interest exclusively to the Mets.

The name Travis Hafner isn't the least bit familiar to me.

I can't even tell you what team he plays for.

Centerfield
Aug 24 2006 11:11 AM

We have this discussion every year, but a performance like Hafner's should be proof positive that a team's won-loss record has very little to do with the accomplishments of an individual player. So awarding Jeter because his team finishes first, while discounting Hafner is as arbitrary factoring in uniform color to the discussion.

The MVP should go to the best player in each league. Regardless of salary, expectations, team record, uniform color etc.

Unless, of course, a player is Jewish. Then he should win hands down.

Frayed Knot
Aug 24 2006 11:18 AM

The sad part is starting to hear how Jeter should get the award "to make up for" all the times he has so obviously been screwed out of it in prior years ... as if there's some sort of cumulative process at work here and past misses add up to one win whether it's deserved or not.

Yancy Street Gang
Aug 24 2006 11:19 AM

Derek Jeter = Susan Lucci.

Edgy DC
Aug 24 2006 11:27 AM

Which, at last, explains those tingly feelings he gives me.

Centerfield
Aug 24 2006 11:32 AM

What baseball should really do is give him one of those honorary lifetime achievement awards.

SteveJRogers
Aug 24 2006 05:50 PM

="Frayed Knot"]Back to Jeter for a second;
It's this 'proof by anecdote' method that drives me nuts, as if Joe Mauer's higher BA on a team that steamed back into a race in the toughest division in MLB by winning something like 40 of 50 couldn't possibly have produced as many BIG hits as Jeter since us NYC-ers don't see him as often.
In some minds this is strictly down to Jeter vs Ortiz and Jeter sealed it this weekend because he proved (all together now) that he's a winner!!!!


Yeah, thats how Ortiz almost won it last year. Many people's sole reason for picking him was "Seems like he's always getting the game winning hit, every time!"

SteveJRogers
Aug 24 2006 05:52 PM

Frayed Knot wrote:
The sad part is starting to hear how Jeter should get the award "to make up for" all the times he has so obviously been screwed out of it in prior years ... as if there's some sort of cumulative process at work here and past misses add up to one win whether it's deserved or not.


Other than 1999 has there been a year where Jeter has been an actual MVP candiate?

metsmarathon
Aug 24 2006 06:02 PM

have i mentioned yet that i absolutely abhor the "take him off the team" arguments in MVP discussions?