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Tides Deathwatch

ABG Sep 05 2006 04:15 PM

http://home.hamptonroads.com/stories/story.cfm?story=110406&ran=208980 ]NORFOLK - Did you stick around to hear the recording of Frank Sinatra singing “New York, New York” that played over the public address system after Monday’s game? If you did, then you might have heard it for the last time at Harbor Park, for the Tides might have just played their last game as the New York Mets’ Triple-A affiliate. After 38 years as a Mets affiliate, the contract between the Mets and Tidewater Professional Sports, Inc., lapsed without having a new deal in place. The Tides are left to file with Minor League Baseball today for the right to begin discussions with other major league teams. September, it appears, will be a month of wheeling and dealing. How it works Since the Mets and Tides did not reach agreement, Norfolk will file a letter asking for permission to pursue a new affiliation deal with another major league team. They have until Sept. 11 to file. On Sept. 12, all major league teams and Triple-A teams without affiliation will be informed of who is available for a deal. On Sept. 16, teams will begin a two-week courting period. Look for the Tides to have a new major league affiliate in place by the last week of September. This would really suck. I love going to games at Harbor Park, and the Tides/Mets are a big part of the community down there. Save the Tides!

Willets Point Sep 05 2006 04:28 PM

Well the Tides don't need saving, it's the affiliation btw. New York & Norfolk. Any ideas on where the Mets would want to have a Triple-A affiliation if not Norfolk? Are other teams going to be interested in giving up their current affiliation to go with Norfolk (mebbe Washington or Baltimore?)? Are the Mets out of it or can they court Norfolk with the rest?

Willets Point Sep 05 2006 04:35 PM

I just checked on Washington and Baltimores affiliations and I think they would consider Norfolk prime territory. Washington's AAA team is in New Orleans and I would not be surprised if they'd want to get out of that afflicted city. Baltimore has a long-time policy of keeping their minor league teams close to home. Every minor league team in the system is in Maryland except one team in West Virginia and their AAA squad in Ottawa. I bet they'd love to get their hands on an AAA team only 4 hours from Baltimore.

Valadius Sep 05 2006 05:02 PM

The AAA affiliates of Minnesota (Rochester), Toronto (Syracuse), and Cleveland (Buffalo) are all close by. Here's how I see this potentially shaking out: Mets: Syracuse (Toronto) Toronto: Ottawa (Baltimore) Baltimore: Norfolk (Mets)

Edgy DC Sep 05 2006 05:04 PM

My first guess is that this is only temporary. My second is that they take over Rochester from the Twinkies. I like Harbor Park. I don't like much else about the area, however.

MFS62 Sep 05 2006 05:16 PM

Val The Mets had their first AAA team in Syracuse. Young Ed Kranepool played there in 1962. They moved to Buffalo a year or two later. Who says you can't go home again? Later

Valadius Sep 05 2006 05:18 PM

On the subject of Minor League Baseball... This is an actual team. I shit you not: They're the D-Rays' AA affiliate.

Benjamin Grimm Sep 05 2006 05:21 PM

The Phillies are going to abandon Scranton, PA. Their AAA team will be on Ottawa, Ontario next year and the permanent location will be Allentown starting in 2008. Scranton is pretty close to New York.

Frayed Knot Sep 05 2006 05:22 PM

Of course it's not as easy as simply deciding to "take" a particular affiliate from another team. Only those cities who also have expiring agreements are going to be available. NYM & Norfolk are currently one of the longest lasting ML/AAA affiliations around. Be a shame if it went away. Considering that the whole Norfolk/Chesapeke area is one of the largest metroplitan areas without a ML team, it's tough to think of a city that's closer or more attractive.

MFS62 Sep 05 2006 05:24 PM

I vote for Scranton. There's a seafood restaurant near the U of Scranton that had over 100 International beers on the menu when I went there several years ago. Other than that, there's absolutely NO reason to go to Scranton. Later

Benjamin Grimm Sep 05 2006 05:26 PM

The only reason I ever went to Scranton was to visit Steamtown in 1999.

seawolf17 Sep 05 2006 05:30 PM

Scranton would be a good pick. It's not far, and if they have an expiring deal, then it makes sense. The Rochester-Baltimore connection was the longest in AAA (or perhaps all of minor league baseball, I don't remember) before it was severed. But as I've said, Rochester's been much better off since the change. As someone who considers Rochester his home away from home, I would double my job search efforts up there if Rochester or Syracuse got the Mets.

Edgy DC Sep 05 2006 05:32 PM

Scranton has precedent. John Cardinal O'Connor was called up from Scranton when he made the bigs.

Benjamin Grimm Sep 05 2006 05:49 PM

My guess is that it's not a coincidence that the Mets are abandoning Norfolk at the same time that Scranton is becoming available. I've never made the trip to Scranton to see the visiting Tides. For whatever reason, I find AA baseball more interesting that AAA. I was figuring I'd go to Allentown, which is closer, to see the Tides when they came to town. Maybe instead I'll go to Allentown to see the Red Barons as a Mets affiliate.

OlerudOwned Sep 05 2006 06:39 PM

For some reason, I feel like posting a pic of Lenny Dykstra in an old Tidewater Tides uniform. It's definately going to be weird no having the Tides around anymore. Let's hope for Heath Bell's sake that the new affiliate is closer to NY.

Willets Point Sep 05 2006 07:46 PM

Edgy DC wrote: Scranton has precedent. John Cardinal O'Connor was called up from Scranton when he made the bigs. Classic line. I hope that if the Mets change affiliations that they pick up a team in the International League North so that that team plays more road games against Pawtucket.

Johnny Dickshot Sep 05 2006 07:47 PM

I thought the Phils were leaving Scranton because it was a dump. Why would the Mets go there?

Frayed Knot Sep 05 2006 08:03 PM

The Yanx' agreement w/Columbus is up also. They could be looking to move further east (esp since George no longer maintains a residence in Ohio) and might be a competitor for Scranton if that actually is a sought after destination. This game of affiliiate musical chairs is common each winter - but the Mets have stayed out of it for the most part by being very stable at the higher levels.

MFS62 Sep 06 2006 07:30 AM

Frayed Knot wrote: This game of affiliiate musical chairs is common each winter - but the Mets have stayed out of it for the most part by being very stable at the higher levels. I believe that stability is a result of a Frank Cashen edict (from his days at Baltimore) that all of the home ballparks in the minor league system have roughly the same dimensions as Shea. He felt that not only added to player familiarity when they were brought up to the majors but helped the scouts better assess talent as it rose through the ranks. If the Mets were to play musical chairs with their minor league franchises, they might not be able to modify the ballparks of the city to which they moved to conform to those dimensions. Later

MFS62 Sep 06 2006 08:07 AM

More on the Tides possibly moving from a Mets fan who lives in Norfolk. ]Not sure what the problem is... went through a similar problem last time they had to renew the contract... Rosenfeld is a dick sometimes and I think he is trying for a bigger piece of the pie... The local paper ran a poll today to ask the locals who they would want the tides to be affiliated with... I sure hope the Mets can renegotiate and stay.. the Tides have been the Mets AAA club since '69 and I'd hate to see it change... with the money the Mets have invested in the stadium (one of the best in the minors) and the fan support for the team (they average better than 500,000 in attendance) and have been one of the better franchises in the AAA for the last 10-15 years, I can't see the Mets going down without a fight. The results of the poll won't be out for a few days the other options for affiliatioin are with the Orioles or Washington because they are within 200 miles of us... I'll keep you informed if I hear of any new news Later

Frayed Knot Sep 06 2006 08:11 AM

Except that it still comes down to the ability to strike a business agreement between the franchise and the individual local owners. I believe the NYM agreements with Norfolk & Binghamton both pre-date and post-date Cashen.

MFS62 Sep 06 2006 08:15 AM

Yes. But just because the agreements may have pre-dated Cashen, it doesn't mean those stadia didn't conform to his requirements. And for that reason ,they have been renegotiated since he left the organization. Later

soupcan Sep 06 2006 08:16 AM

When I was in school and the Tides came into town to play the Syracuse Chiefs I'd always take in a game or two. I saw Magadan and El Sid work it as minor leaguers up there. I wouldn't mind the Mets being a Syracuse team. It would centralize my rooting interests at least. Weren't the Rochester Red Wings always an Orioles affiliate? When did they switch to Minnesota?

Frayed Knot Sep 06 2006 08:19 AM

<<<<---- Say Hey!!!!! The Rochester-Baltimore affiliation was, I believe, the longest running in MLB/MiLB (40+ years?) when it ended about 3 years ago. IIRC, the story at the time is that Rochester was fed up with Bal'mer (Angelos?) rather than the other way around.

Valadius Sep 15 2006 09:45 AM

COLUMBUS, Ohio (AP) -- The New York Yankees might end their 28-year affiliation with the Columbus and align with another Triple-A team. The International League team said Friday the Yankees have informed them of their intentions. "While we have enjoyed working with the New York Yankees, we also understand that baseball is a business and the Yankees have every right to explore new relationships that may be better suited for the goals of their organization," Ken Schnacke, president and general manager of the Clippers, said in a statement. The Clippers said their board of trustees voted to begin negotiations for an affiliation with another club. The Clippers have until Sept. 30 to sign a new deal. The New York Mets, Washington Nationals and the Baltimore Orioles do not have an affiliate. The Philadelphia Phillies have spoken to Ottawa about making the Lynx their top farm club next season. Schnacke said in an interview the Clippers will be back next year regardless of what happens with the Yankees. "The only difference will be where players come from," he said. Columbus finished its season Sept. 4, closing with a 69-73 record in the West Division. Most of the Yankees' best farm products the past three decades played for the Clippers. The team was once among the top draws in the minors until the wave of new stadiums. The Clippers play at 74-year-old Cooper Stadium. A $55 million stadium will be built near the brick-and-glass home of the city's NHL team, the Columbus Blue Jackets. The baseball stadium is expected to open in July 2008.

Edgy DC Sep 15 2006 10:21 AM

Columbus would make a good indy-league city. I don't know why I feel that way. Check out Frayed Knot's post above.

Johnny Dickshot Sep 20 2006 05:21 AM

A guy who follows minor-league activity at thinkfactory figures the MFYs will go to Scranton, the Orioles will take over Norfolk, the Nats wind up in Columbus and the Mets will play in ... New Orleans! The Phillies to Ottawa is a done deal while they await a new park in Allentown. Deals need to be made by Sept. 30, or else Bud assigns them.

MFS62 Sep 20 2006 07:16 AM

Johnny Dickshot wrote: Deals need to be made by Sept. 30, or else Bud assigns them. There is prescedent for this. He put a minor league team in Milwaukee. Later

Benjamin Grimm Sep 20 2006 07:27 AM

New Orleans is in the Pacific Coast League, isn't it? Wouldn't that mean that often the players would be far from New York, making quick callups more difficult? Probably doesn't matter a whole lot, but it's something to think about.

soupcan Sep 20 2006 07:33 AM

N'awlins? Isn't the point of all this reshuffling to bring the AAA squad gegraphically closer to the big league one?

Benjamin Grimm Sep 20 2006 07:38 AM

I think if they end up in New Orleans it will be because they lost the game of musical chairs.

soupcan Sep 20 2006 07:41 AM

New Orleans in the summer? Ugh. I can't imagine how uncomfortable that would be. I've been there in November and its hot and muggy then.

MFS62 Sep 20 2006 07:49 AM

I think I read that the New Orleans team played at least some of their home games in the Dome. Those games produced some interesting stats because I believe one of the foul lines was kinda' short. Does anyone know if that place has been repaired since Katrina? Later

cooby Sep 20 2006 08:08 AM

Saints are playing there next week http://sports.excite.com/news/09192006/v0348.html And in fact have sold out their season

Edgy DC Sep 20 2006 08:18 AM

soupcan wrote: N'awlins? Isn't the point of all this reshuffling to bring the AAA squad gegraphically closer to the big league one? That's an assumption. But there are naturally other interests in play.

ScarletKnight41 Sep 20 2006 08:29 AM

soupcan wrote: New Orleans in the summer? Ugh. I can't imagine how uncomfortable that would be. I've been there in November and its hot and muggy then. My friend got a grad degree from Tulane and you're right, New Orleans is not where you want to be in the summer.

Willets Point Sep 20 2006 08:30 AM

The New Orleans Zephyrs are the only professional sports team from Louisiana to win a championship. They also are the first team to return to playing home games in New Orleans (Metairie actually) after Hurricane Katrina. Hey, it would make for a good road trip to see the future Mets play in New Orleans.

Benjamin Grimm Sep 20 2006 08:35 AM

The Daily News, I think, speculated that the Mets will probably end up claiming Columbus. If they do, I hope they ditch the Clippers name. (And yes, I know it's highly unlikely.) Columbus Clippers sounds too Yankee-ish to me, not only because of the 28 years as an affiliate, but also because of DiMaggio. I'd name them the Columbus Pigeons. (Columbo, the explorer's untranslated name, means "pigeon" in Italian.)

Edgy DC Sep 20 2006 08:41 AM

Other options The Columbus Discoverers The Columbus Explorers The Columbus Franchise The Columbus Renaissance Men The Knights of Columbus The Ohio Players

KC Sep 20 2006 03:15 PM

The Wall Street Journal has a story today about the shifting of the AAA teams. If someone has online access it would probably make a good post, ours (works) account seems to have lapsed and I didn't have time to figure out why.

ScarletKnight41 Sep 20 2006 03:21 PM

Can you give me something more to go on?

sharpie Sep 20 2006 03:30 PM

I hope they do go to New Orleans. A colleague's brother is the GM there, I have an old friend there I wouldn't mind seeing and all of it adds up to me being more likely to go there than to ever go to Columbus, Ohio.

KC Sep 20 2006 03:45 PM

SK: >>>Can you give me something more to go on?<<< It's in the A section of today's paper and about three quarters of the way down the internet main page. Most of the good links on that site require an online subscription.

ScarletKnight41 Sep 20 2006 03:54 PM

Do you have a title or an author? I don't have WSJ online, but I have other methods of tracking things down.

KC Sep 20 2006 04:04 PM

One of my ten unwritten rules is The Wall Street Journal never leaves the office. And no, I'm not posting the other nine rules on a public forum.

ScarletKnight41 Sep 20 2006 04:10 PM

OK. In that case, you'll have to wait until the person I know with better access gets back from a Little League board meeting.

MFS62 Sep 20 2006 04:10 PM

In a related item, I heard that The Hagerstown Suns web site is reporting that the Suns have signed an agreement with the Washington Nationals to serve as their lower A farm team. Where does this leave the Mets? What locations are open? The Nationals are leaving Savannah, GA. Edgy, have you read/heard anything about this? Later

Farmer Ted Sep 20 2006 07:10 PM

Mets officials were in Scranton yesterday. Heard it on the radio.

OlerudOwned Sep 20 2006 07:16 PM

Didn't the Mets just join up with the Suns this season? That was a quickie.

ScarletKnight41 Sep 20 2006 07:39 PM

Shaking Up the Lineup In Minor-League Affiliations, Musical Chairs Has Replaced Baseball as Game of the Week By RUSSELL ADAMS September 20, 2006; Page A19 Go just about anywhere in the former coal-mining towns of Scranton and Wilkes-Barre in eastern Pennsylvania, and someone will be talking about it. A priest referenced it at a morning Mass on Sunday, and a judge stopped the county commissioner in the street to ask for an update. After 18 seasons, the Philadelphia Phillies and their top minor-league baseball club, the Scranton/Wilkes-Barre Red Barons, are severing ties. But what has everybody here talking is the hot pursuit of a new tenant for Lackawanna County Stadium. The county is talking with the New York Mets and the New York Yankees, both of whom passed through town yesterday. The sales pitch by Lackawanna County officials includes a tour of the stadium's new $3.2. million clubhouse, an offer to replace the artificial turf with real grass and a promise to bring in a new group to manage the franchise. A decision is expected this week. OUT OF THE BALLPARK [Out of the Ballpark] Five Triple-A teams and their major-league partners are playing musical cares. A look at why it wasn't working out. What's unfolding in Scranton/Wilkes-Barre is part of a bigger shake-up in baseball. Five major-league teams -- the Phillies, Mets, Yankees, Baltimore Orioles and Washington Nationals -- are scouting new homes for their Triple-A clubs. While there is some degree of reshuffling in minor-league baseball every couple of years, the current round of remapping is part of a broader shift in the relationship between the major and minor leagues. Minor-league baseball has been one of the feel-good stories of sports in recent years. Attendance has taken off, thanks to affordable ticket prices, more intimate stadiums and a carnival atmosphere at the games. Minor-league baseball also has been a big moneymaker for team owners, whose growing success has allowed them to gain more independence from the major-league clubs. At this point, the big-league teams supply only the players and coaches -- the minor-league owners take care of the rest, from marketing to maintenance. [The Norfolk Tides, long the New York Mets top farm team, is on the move.] The Norfolk Tides, long the New York Mets top farm team, is on the move. Now, a number of major-league teams are hoping to consolidate their baseball operations -- including their handful of minor-league teams -- in closer proximity to the city where the major-league team is based. The idea is that that will it easier both to move players up and down between the majors and minors, and that it will help build fans' interest by exposing them to players earlier in their careers. "A lot of teams have gone in that direction," says Jeff Luhnow, vice president of player procurement for the St. Louis Cardinals. Mr. Luhnow says "clustering" minor-league affiliates is not only "a good way to build up the regional fan base," but also allows major-league executives to spend more time with their player prospects. Other factors have also helped to weaken the ties that used to bind minor and major leagues. They include a minor-league-stadium building boom that has caused major-league clubs to pay more attention to the quality of the facilities. Since Sept. 16, when teams were free to negotiate new affiliate agreements, many of these minor-league towns have begun aggressively wooing potential major-league partners. The Phillies will be moving their Triple-A team to Allentown, Pa. (after a two-year stop in Ottawa, Canada), which is not only closer to Philadelphia but also has offered to build the team a new stadium. The Yankees' decision to scout other possible places for their Triple-A team effectively puts Columbus, Ohio, where the team has been based for 28 years, back in play -- which is why the Mets, whose Triple-A team has been based in Norfolk, Va., is reportedly looking at Columbus as well as Scranton/Wilkes-Barre. The Orioles and Nationals, meanwhile, are in talks with Norfolk, which is in those teams TV markets. And if the Nationals switch their affiliation closer to home, that will leave New Orleans looking for a major-league organization. As major-league clubs have come to rely more on team-owned television networks and the revenue they generate, they've also realized it pays to have their minor-league clubs within the areas those networks reach. That's another big reason why the Orioles and Nationals are aggressively pursuing Norfolk, the Mets and Yankees are considering Scranton/Wilkes-Barre, and the Phillies will relocate their Triple-A operation to Allentown. The relationship between Scranton/Wilkes-Barre and the Phillies crumbled because of everything from the county's delay in modernizing the baseball facilities to a feeling by the local fans that they've been snubbed by the big-league team. County officials make no secret of their preference for the Yankees, which they view as a vehicle to tell the world they've graduated from coal-scarred town to a miniature big city with a thriving service-based economy and a blossoming cultural scene. The Yankees' "association will get us one step closer to letting the rest of the world know," says Robert Cordaro, a member of the board of commissioners in Lackawanna County, which owns and operates the Red Barons. As a whole, minor-league baseball continues to draw large crowds, bringing in a record 41.7 million fans this past season. But interest has waned in a number of cities, as fans have become disenchanted with teams. The Ottawa Lynx, the Baltimore Orioles affiliate, which broke International League attendance records in 1993, this year finished last in the league in attendance. Attendance for the Columbus Clippers, the Yankees' Triple-A team, has been on the decline recently as fans have grown increasingly frustrated with the team's poor performance. In Scranton/Wilkes-Barre, where the Red Barons at one time drew 12,000 people to a stadium with fewer than 11,000 seats, the club drew only about 3,000 fans a game for two recent playoff games. Minor-league and major-league teams are bound together by so-called player-development contracts, which typically run in two-year cycles. So every couple of years, teams are free to change affiliations. Sometimes the major-league club initiates the switch, while other times the minor-league team takes the lead. All the minor-league teams -- not just Triple A but other levels as well -- have a contract with the league that guarantees the owners the right to have a team. The cities hosting the team are at the mercy of the minor-league owners, who may decide to move or sell a team. Scranton/Wilkes-Barre and the Phillies were once a perfect match. Fans packed the stadium and developed a kinship with former Phillies stars like Darren Daulton, who passed through before leading the team to a World Series appearance in 1993. But the team came to be a financial drain on county coffers, accumulating some $10 million in losses (including bond payments on the stadium) over the last six or seven years, according to Mr. Cordaro. Meantime, the Phillies became increasingly dissatisfied with the county's inability to upgrade the facilities, while fans grew tired of watching a losing team. Write to Russell Adams at russell.adams@wsj.com

soupcan Sep 21 2006 08:24 AM

My aging eyes won't allow me to get all the way through Scarlet's post so if I'm repeating here, I'm sorry. I read in the NYTimes this morning that Columbus has affiliated with the Washington Senators for two years with an eye towards hooking up with either the Reds or Indians when their current agreements witheir respective AAA clubs expire. And, failing to recognize the pure genius of Edgy's 'Ohio Players' suggestion, they will retain the name Clippers.

Willets Point Sep 21 2006 09:52 AM

Columbus Swing Voters has a good ring to me.

MFS62 Sep 21 2006 10:01 AM

Willets Point wrote: Columbus Swing Voters has a good ring to me. That would go over as well as the name Columbus- Not the Buckeyes Later

Farmer Ted Sep 21 2006 10:54 AM

My nrother lives in Columbus and confirms the Nats AAA squad is going there AND possibly retaining the Clippers name. He and I both believe that the Clippers name was born out of Nazi-brenner's loves for boats and a tribute to his father who was a ship-building magnate. Researchers, please confirm or deny.

Willets Point Sep 21 2006 11:02 AM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Sep 21 2006 11:03 AM

Farmer Ted wrote: My nrother lives in Columbus and confirms the Nats AAA squad is going there AND possibly retaining the Clippers name. He and I both believe that the Clippers name was born out of Nazi-brenner's loves for boats and a tribute to his father who was a ship-building magnate. Researchers, please confirm or deny. The Clippers website notes that the team was known as the Clippers first when they were a Pirates affilliate 1977-1978. I would infer that would mean Steinbrenner was not involved. It is an odd name for an inland city franchise.

MFS62 Sep 21 2006 11:02 AM

Farmer Ted wrote: My nrother lives in Columbus and confirms the Nats AAA squad is going there AND possibly retaining the Clippers name. He and I both believe that the Clippers name was born out of Nazi-brenner's loves for boats and a tribute to his father who was a ship-building magnate. Researchers, please confirm or deny. Ted, most of us dislike Boss George enough without calling him a "Nazi". As for the rest, yes, his family earned its fortune in the ship-building business, so that sounds reasonable about naming the team the Clippers. Later

Benjamin Grimm Sep 21 2006 11:09 AM

I think the ships they're referring to would be those of Christopher Columbus, not those of George Steinbrenner. Especially since the team was called the Clippers before the Yankees got there.

Willets Point Sep 21 2006 11:39 AM

Well that's bad history since clippers are a specific type of sailing ship from the 19th-century.

MFS62 Sep 21 2006 11:43 AM

Willets Point wrote: Well that's bad history since clippers are a specific type of sailing ship from the 19th-century. Weren't the Clipper ships trading vessels? George prefers free agency. Later

Edgy DC Sep 21 2006 11:45 AM

The Columbus Circles.

metirish Sep 21 2006 11:45 AM

Is it possible they were so named after the yankee clipper?

Benjamin Grimm Sep 21 2006 11:54 AM

From wikipedia: ]The Columbus Clippers are a Triple-A baseball team in the International League. The Clippers are affiliated with the Washington Nationals and play at Cooper Stadium (formerly Franklin County Stadium) in Columbus, Ohio. The team and Cooper Stadium are owned by the government of Franklin County, Ohio. The Clippers franchise was born in 1977 as an affiliate of the Pittsburgh Pirates, changing its affiliation to the New York Yankees in 1979. The franchise, however, traces its post-World War II roots to the Jersey City Giants, who played from 1937 through 1950. The Jersey City team moved to Ottawa, Ontario, in 1951 and played in Canada's capital for four seasons. At the close of the 1954 season, the Columbus Red Birds, longtime American Association affiliate of the St. Louis Cardinals, moved to Omaha, Nebraska, opening the valuable Columbus territory. The struggling Ottawa franchise claimed it, and Columbus joined the International League in 1955. This team eventually affiliated with the Pirates and became the Columbus Jets. When the Jets encountered stadium problems, after the 1970 campaign, they moved to Charleston, West Virginia as the Charleston Charlies from 1971-76. With the availability of Cooper Stadium, the former Jets were lured back to Ohio's capital, and the Clippers were launched in 1977. This page isn't official at all but it says that the Clippers got their name because Columbus had a "clipper ship" but as Willets points out clippers came along about 500 years after Columbus did.

MFS62 Sep 21 2006 11:56 AM

IIRC, the type of ships Columbus said on were called Caravelles. Later

soupcan Sep 21 2006 12:48 PM

MFS62 wrote: IIRC, the type of ships Columbus said on were called Caravelles. Later Named so because these ships were mostly used to hunt Fudgy the Whale.

cooby Sep 21 2006 12:53 PM

You need to stop cracking me up before my boss comes and checks on me again

Johnny Dickshot Sep 21 2006 12:53 PM

wham

Valadius Sep 21 2006 12:55 PM

[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pr78lXz2oZc]Cookie Puss Commercial[/url]

Willets Point Sep 21 2006 01:02 PM

Whoa! Now there's a flashback. All it's missing is Tom Carvel's incoherent narration (or is that Tom Carvel with his voice disguised?).

Valadius Sep 21 2006 01:06 PM

If you want Tom Carvel's incoherent narration: [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0FyzOl18kk]Tom Carvel and Cookie Chick[/url] "Now would you like to send one?... to a... friend?"

Willets Point Sep 21 2006 01:10 PM

Tom Carvel was the keynote speaker at my uncle's graduation.

Valadius Sep 21 2006 01:22 PM

Wow... he probably thanked your uncle for his patronage and informed him that he accepted most major credit cards.

cooby Sep 21 2006 01:24 PM

Tom Carvel's voice was created just to say the words "cookie puss"

soupcan Sep 21 2006 01:37 PM

I just loved how Fudgy, Cookies Puss and O'Puss (nice names btw) and Chick were all made from the same exact lightbulb shaped mold. I remember when I first figured that out I was like "Hey, wait a minute..."

Benjamin Grimm Sep 21 2006 01:45 PM

It's like when you realize that the Alphabet Song and Twinkle Twinkle Little Star have the same tune.

Edgy DC Sep 21 2006 01:46 PM

Santa also got that mold

Valadius Sep 21 2006 01:47 PM

Well Fudgy wasn't, but as you'll see here, the Fudgy and Cookie Puss molds were used for different purposes around the holidays: [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3S1QPOHJws8]Tom Carvel narrates a Santa/Hanukkah cake commercial[/url] The Fudgy mold is used for Santa, while the Cookie Puss mold is flipped over for a Hanukkah cake.

Benjamin Grimm Sep 21 2006 01:49 PM

Anybody remember Fudgetown Cookies? Valadius spends a LOT of time on YouTube, doesn't he?

cooby Sep 21 2006 02:10 PM

MMMMMMMMM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ScarletKnight41 Sep 21 2006 02:54 PM

I loved Fudgetown!

KC Sep 21 2006 03:02 PM

YSG: >>>It's like when you realize that the Alphabet Song and Twinkle Twinkle Little Star have the same tune.<<< I'm not going to even admit that I never realized that. Ooops, just did.

ScarletKnight41 Sep 21 2006 03:08 PM

="KC"]YSG: >>>It's like when you realize that the Alphabet Song and Twinkle Twinkle Little Star have the same tune.<<< I'm not going to even admit that I never realized that. Ooops, just did. You obviously haven't spent any time in Gymboree classes. Baa Baa Black Sheep also sounds like those two.

Willets Point Sep 21 2006 03:11 PM

cooby wrote: Tom Carvel's voice was created just to say the words "cookie puss" You guys are killing me. I laughed so hard I hemmoraged an internal organ when Cookie O'Puss came on in that commercial.

Farmer Ted Sep 21 2006 03:28 PM

Back to the minor league issue, it appears the Yankees are locked on Scranton with the Mets haggling over the two cities left, NO and Norfolk. It looks like Norfolk wants more cash. No other reason to let this drag on. Are there no other options, say a vacant minor league stadium? Isn't that place in Maine, where the Phillies AAA once played, vacant? Perhaps Newark would be an option? Keyspan holds 8,000, more than many AAA fields. Why not?

Benjamin Grimm Sep 21 2006 03:44 PM

I was thinking Brooklyn, too. Maine is a good choice also, I guess. I remember a team called the Maine Guides. I think they played in Portland?

MFS62 Sep 21 2006 04:00 PM

Portland has a AAA team. They're called the Portland Sea Dogs. I have their sweat shirt. Later

ScarletKnight41 Sep 21 2006 04:03 PM

Portland is a AA team.

Farmer Ted Sep 21 2006 04:49 PM

I did some googling and found the old AAA stadium in Maine is not only vacant but moreless abandoned. No room, no lockers under stadium. A mess and the town is trying to sell the land as commercial space. I go with Brooklyn. They can always find a low-level A town somewhere.

Edgy DC Sep 21 2006 05:06 PM

Brooklyn is unlikely to happen.

SteveJRogers Sep 21 2006 05:51 PM

I could have sworn I heard on ESPN Radio that we've got the New Orleans Zyphers

Edgy DC Sep 21 2006 05:56 PM

Hang onto Norfolk. David Wright's youth is there. Willets Point also. Gold Glove also.

metirish Sep 21 2006 06:01 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Sep 21 2006 06:03 PM

Nothing on the Mets site about where they are going.

Edgy DC Sep 21 2006 06:03 PM

Wrong Fred.

Willets Point Sep 21 2006 06:26 PM

Edgy DC wrote: Hang onto Norfolk. David Wright's youth is there. Willets Point also. Gold Glove also. Well, my young adulthood was 60 miles away, but close enough.

Edgy DC Sep 21 2006 06:27 PM

Yeah, but relatively...

Gwreck Sep 21 2006 09:23 PM

SteveJRogers wrote: I could have sworn I heard on ESPN Radio that we've got the New Orleans Zyphers Adam Rubin reported the same on his blog, that the Mets minor league director made an official announcement.

old original jb Sep 21 2006 09:29 PM I just checked out the Zephyr's website.

The team mascots are a pair of nutria with at least 4 offspring. The stadium is catered by Levy catering, but given the prevalence of pork and shrimp on the menu, I think it's the kind of Levy that didn't protect New Orleans from flooding, as opposed to the kind of Levy who prepares pastrami. How many people think that minor league baseball players are more likely to get into all kinds of trouble in New Orleans than they are in Norfolk?

Edgy DC Sep 21 2006 09:36 PM

I tried to get into trouble in Norfolk. David Wright's dad stepped in and set me straight.

Johnny Dickshot Sep 21 2006 09:39 PM

Odd thing about New Orleans is that it's in the Pacific Coast League. Doesn't seem to make a lotta sense for the Mets, who often use AAA as a taxi squad, to hafta fly guys in from so far away, as they often will. Wonder what's up?

Frayed Knot Sep 21 2006 09:44 PM

It's not like the Mets/Wilpons can simply decide they want to put a AAA team in one place or another. The big league club doesn't own their higher-level minor league affiliates (hence the word: affiliate). So, even though they do own the Cyclones and could theoretically move them to anyplace that would have them, they couldn't just stick a AAA team they don't own into Keyspan Park - even if it does meet AAA standards (and I'm not sure it does). The word on Norfolk is that apparently that the Tides Prez is part of an ownership group that has recently bought several Maryland-based teams - all Oriole affiliates - and want to also link the Tides to the O's chain as well. The Mets made several attempts to strike a new agreement with Norfolk - even to the point of having Wright make a few pleading phone-calls - but almost certainly to no avail. They also made a play for Scranton but that's been locked up with the Yanx for weeks now - even though nothing official yet. That basically leaves N'Awlins as the last girl at the dance. Columbus to the Nat'ls and the Phils heading to Ottawa (for a two-year stint) look like done deals as well. The Mets & Norfolk had been the 2nd-longest active affiliation in all minor league baseball, having been there since 1969. P.S. We'll need a new low-A affiliate as well as it looks like the Nat'ls are gobbling up Hagerstown.

Edgy DC Sep 21 2006 09:55 PM

That was fun, if brief, having Minor League Metties so close by. The stadium is across the street from my mom-in-law's nursing home.

metirish Sep 22 2006 06:28 AM

The Mets sign a two year deal with New Orleans.....so says the dailynews.

Benjamin Grimm Sep 22 2006 06:31 AM

My prediction: After the Phillies abandon Ottawa for Allentown, the Blue Jays will grab Ottawa and the Mets will move to Syracuse.

MFS62 Sep 22 2006 08:36 AM

Zephyrs blow. Later

Frayed Knot Sep 22 2006 08:41 AM

I wonder if Ron Swoboda is still doing color for the Zephyrs TV games? Sand Gnat can now be our on-site correspondant for Sally League games assuming the move to Savannah takes place ... and assuming that SG checks in more than once in a blue moon.

Farmer Ted Sep 22 2006 08:58 AM

From the NOLA TImes-Picayune. Swoboda is in the house. Zephyrs strike deal with Mets N.O. to be home of team's Triple-A affiliate Friday, September 22, 2006 By Bob Fortus The Zephyrs have adopted a new parent. On Thursday night, they reached agreement on a two-year, player-development contract with the New York Mets. "The Zephyrs are delighted," General Manager Mike Schline said. "The Mets were our first choice. They're a potential World Series team this year, they're a winner, and we're very happy to be affiliated with the New York market." Adam Wogan, the Mets' director of minor-league operations, said an affiliation with the Zephyrs is a "a great opportunity" for the organization. Wogan also said that the Mets are eager to help the city. "We want to be the best part of the community that we can be," Wogan said. The Zephyrs' two-year deal with the Washington Nationals ended this season. On Wednesday, the Nationals signed a player-development contract with Columbus (Ohio) of the International League. The Mets and the Norfolk (Va.) franchise in the International League didn't renew their deal. Wogan was the Nationals' director of player development before going to the Mets. "We have a great relationship," Schline said. "I think Adam was what it's about. . . . Adam brought the Nationals to the Zephyrs, and he brought the Mets to the Zephyrs." The contract will be signed today, Schline said. Concerning the caliber of players who might appear in New Orleans, Wogan mentioned outfielder Lastings Milledge and pitcher Mike Pelfrey as current young Mets who had advanced from Triple-A. "Our desire is to build through scouting and development," Wogan said. "We believe in players playing at that level (Triple-A)." The Mets, who this week clinched the National League East title, entered play Thursday with the best record in the majors. They will be making their seventh postseason appearance. They won the World Series in 1969 and 1986, and won NL pennants in 1973 and 2000. The Mets will be the Zephyrs' fourth parent team since the Triple-A franchise moved from Denver to New Orleans in 1993. From that season through the 1996 season, New Orleans was the Triple-A affiliate of the Milwaukee Brewers. From the 1997 season through the 2004 season, the Zephyrs were the Triple-A affiliate of the Houston Astros. The Zephyrs will be introduced to New York on Sunday. Schline said the Mets are flying him, Ron Maestri, the Z's Chief Operating Officer, and Ron Swoboda, a former Mets player who is a Zephyrs radio announcer, to New York to take part in a press conference with the media.

metirish Sep 22 2006 08:58 AM

Yes he is FK... http://www.zephyrsbaseball.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=45&Itemid=39

Willets Point Sep 22 2006 08:59 AM

Sweet. The only bad thing about this affiliation is that there are no PCL teams that play remotely close to where I live.

Farmer Ted Sep 22 2006 09:01 AM

The owner of the Zephyrs, Donald Beaver, was the one who tried to buy and move the Twins to North Carolina circa 1997-98 but the voters shot down a stadium referendum in the Greensboro/Winston-Salem area. He owns several minor league clubs.

metirish Sep 22 2006 09:03 AM

The Zephyrs stadium has a pool behind LF. http://www.zephyrsbaseball.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=50&Itemid=56

Farmer Ted Sep 22 2006 09:05 AM Edited 2 time(s), most recently on Sep 22 2006 09:07 AM

The Junior Cranepoolforum of sorts... http://www.nola.com/forums/zephyrs/ Our Tides peeps must be bummin' today.

Edgy DC Sep 22 2006 09:06 AM

Farmer Ted wrote: "We believe in players playing at that level (Triple-A)." Huh?

metirish Sep 22 2006 09:21 AM

Crappy looking forum... from Peja16 ]per WGNO Sports tonight. The Mets do not have a very good farm system (at least at the AAA level). This could be boring.

Valadius Sep 22 2006 09:23 AM

They call Swoboda "Slo-bo".

MFS62 Sep 22 2006 09:25 AM

Regarding the distance/ travel time should a player need to be called up quickly - The only three I could see going to AAA who might be subject to immediate callup are Bell, Pelfrey and Humber. And the last two would usually have some time between starts (their last minor league and a major league start) to have plenty of time to rest from travel. Maybe Carlos Garcia will play there, but I don't see him as an emergency "gotta' be there tonight" kind of callup. Later

Benjamin Grimm Sep 22 2006 09:27 AM

Mark my words... In two years it'll be Syracuse.

Johnny Dickshot Sep 22 2006 09:28 AM

I'm obviously talking about injuries/emergencies, and not being specific as to players.

Edgy DC Sep 22 2006 09:48 AM

They better carry an emergency sixth starter in the bullpen. It'd suck to need a guy to start in Flushing and have the Zephyrs be in Vancouver or someplace.

MFS62 Sep 22 2006 09:52 AM

I just realized that with rotund Heath Bell possibly playing in New Orleans next year, I'd better call my broker and buy some jambalaya futures. Later

soupcan Sep 22 2006 10:00 AM

Yancy Street Gang wrote: Mark my words... In two years it'll be Syracuse. I'm rootin' for this.

Edgy DC Sep 22 2006 10:08 AM

Forum trip to the Big Easy.

soupcan Sep 22 2006 10:10 AM

Good idea but it'd be hot and steamy.

Edgy DC Sep 22 2006 10:12 AM

So, we'll do it in April and endure. If Fernando Martinez can handle it, why not you? We'll chill with Ron Swoboda.

MFS62 Sep 22 2006 10:17 AM

There's a Mets fan in New Orleans on another board who has already offered to be a tour guide for a trip to Bourbon Street and a Zephyrs game. Seems to me folks should take in the Zephyrs game first. If they go to Bourbon Street first, they might not make it to the ball game. Later

Benjamin Grimm Sep 22 2006 10:22 AM

="Edgy DC"]They better carry an emergency sixth starter in the bullpen. It'd suck to need a guy to start in Flushing and have the Zephyrs be in Vancouver or someplace. But it would be convenient if the Zephyrs were in Vancouver while the Mets were in San Francisco. They just need to time their emergencies. And rename the team! I prefer Pelicans.

MFS62 Sep 22 2006 10:26 AM

The Pelican was the logo/ symbol of the New Orleans Worlds's Fair a few years ago. I think I still have some souvenirs. Later

Valadius Sep 22 2006 03:52 PM

Yeah, Zephyrs just doesn't cut it.

Benjamin Grimm Sep 22 2006 03:59 PM

I think the New Orleans team was known as the Pelicans before the Zephyrs were displaced in Denver by the Rockies. A different ownership group had planned to name their expansion team the Denver Zephyrs. Weird name, but better than Colorado Rockies.

Johnny Dickshot Sep 22 2006 04:03 PM

I believe the Pelicans are the current Myrtle Beach team mascot (class A Sally League or Carolina League). I'm generally against singular names but New Orleans Jazz is very cool and has lots of possibilities merchandisewise.

martin Sep 22 2006 04:03 PM

for me this actually makes it more likely i will get to see a met triple-a game because occasionally i visit my parents in baton rouge and could easily make a game. pelican would be a great mascot. the brown pelican is the state bird of LA.

OlerudOwned Sep 22 2006 04:27 PM

martin wrote: for me this actually makes it more likely i will get to see a met triple-a game because occasionally i visit my parents in baton rouge and could easily make a game. pelican would be a great mascot. the brown pelican is the state bird of LA. The Wilpons don't care about Brown pelicans.

martin Sep 22 2006 05:08 PM

they might! i hope they do.

Willets Point Sep 22 2006 07:33 PM

soupcan wrote: Good idea but it'd be hot and steamy. And Tidewater Virginia isn't?

metirish Sep 24 2006 03:04 PM

From Klapisch. ]Mets' AAA club in New Orleans The Mets said they were severing ties with their longtime partner, the Norfolk Tides. But according to a report in The Virginian-Pilot, the split was anything but amicable and, in fact, was initiated by the folks down south. The Tides apparently were miffed that their roster was filled with on-the-decline veterans who finished with a 57-84 record. They were equally disturbed that Mets general manager Omar Minaya failed to make a single trip to Norfolk this season. So when the Orioles came looking to make a deal with the Tides, the 38-year association with the Mets was over before it was ever announced that New Orleans would be the new Class-AAA franchise.

KC Sep 24 2006 03:25 PM

I've been reading a lot of that, the Tides were done with New York and not vice versa and their eyes lit up having a team close to them as parent club. Ron Swoboda has to be tickled pink ... actually he is.

Edgy DC Sep 28 2006 09:39 AM

And the replacement for Hagerstown is... The Savannah Sandgnats. I'm pretty sure the Mets haven't yet had a Hagerstown Sun graduate as far as the big club. Neither Milledge nor Owens, nor Humber, nor Pelfrey had a stop there.

MFS62 Sep 28 2006 09:47 AM

Just took a glance at the Suns' roster. From the scouting reports, it looks like the first player from that team to make the majors will probably be wunderkind outfielder Fernando Martinez. Later

metirish Sep 28 2006 09:50 AM

So do the Suns players go to Savannah,is that how that works?

Edgy DC Sep 28 2006 09:53 AM

The ones who don't graduate but don't get released do.

MFS62 Sep 28 2006 10:19 AM

New Orleans and Savannah could make for a pretty good start to a restaurant tour. Later

soupcan Sep 28 2006 10:20 AM

Edgy DC wrote: And the replacement for Hagerstown is... The Savannah Sandgnats. I'm pretty sure the Mets haven't yet had a Hagerstown Sun graduate as far as the big club. Neither Milledge nor Owens, nor Humber, nor Pelfrey had a stop there. RMPL [url]http://cybermessageboard.ehost.com/getalife/viewtopic.php?t=4758[/url]

Frayed Knot Sep 28 2006 10:51 AM Edited 3 time(s), most recently on Sep 28 2006 10:58 AM

="MFS62"]New Orleans and Savannah could make for a pretty good start to a restaurant tour. Definitely two good drinking cities. Early on in the book; 'Midnight in the Garden of Good and Evil', where the city of Savannah was as much a character as any human in the book, one of the natives was explaining the differences between what was valued as most important in various Georgia cities. As best as I can remember, it went something along the lines of: In Atlanta the first thing they ask you is what you do for a living. In Macon they ask where you go to church. In Augusta they ask you grandmother's name. And in Savannah they ask you what you want to drink.

cooby Sep 28 2006 10:53 AM

And ghosts!

MFS62 Sep 28 2006 11:02 AM

Does Midnight in the Garden of Good and Evil by John Berendt do a better job including the "feel" of Savannah than Interview With The Vampire by Anne Rice, does with New Orleans? I've never read the Berendt book. Later

Frayed Knot Sep 28 2006 11:07 AM

Like I said, Savannah is practically a character in the book. It's quirks and feel are part of the plot. I, on the other hand, have never read Rice.

ScarletKnight41 Sep 28 2006 11:36 AM

I never read Rice, but I read Midnight in the Garden of Good and Evil right after visiting Savannah. I concur with FK - Savannah is as much a character in that book as any person.

MFS62 Sep 28 2006 11:37 AM

Thanks. I'll check it out. Later

Benjamin Grimm Sep 28 2006 11:42 AM

I've read both Midnight and Rice, and wasn't too terribly impressed with either. Midnight was a fun and colorful read, but I read it after I had heard all the hype, and it didn't live up to it. Anne Rice should have stopped after Interview With A Vampire. (Or maybe I should say instead that I should have stopped reading her books after I read Interview.) I think I read three of the books from her Vampire series, as well as her first book about that witch family and The Mummy. I liked The Mummy, but the witch book was awful and the stories about Lestat got less and less interesting the longer they went on. Now Anne Rice is born again, and she said that all of her future books will be about Jesus. There probably won't be many New Orleans locations in those stories.

Farmer Ted Sep 29 2006 07:00 AM

An ad on the Gnats website proclaims that the local Jeep Dealership is Gnuts About the Gnats. I like it. http://www.sandgnats.com/

MFS62 Sep 29 2006 07:43 AM

I think it would have been more logical for them to be a farm club of the Washington Nats. Later