Forum Home

Master Index of Archived Threads


Ditch the Black

Johnny Dickshot
Sep 19 2006 11:27 PM

[url]http://ditchtheblack.uniwatchblog.com/[/url]

Edgy DC
Sep 19 2006 11:30 PM

Black is black
I want my Nady back

metirish
Sep 19 2006 11:48 PM

Tonight Ron asked Gary if the Mets wore the black uni during the 2000 post-season, Gary thought for a sec and said that they wore the black uni mostly during that run....

metsmarathon
Sep 20 2006 12:29 AM

heh... i like the black. maybe its because i think that i personally look ridiculous in reams of bright blue. its selfish, but true.

Valadius
Sep 20 2006 12:45 AM

The black gives us more flexibility. I happen to like it.

ScarletKnight41
Sep 20 2006 07:12 AM

I've always liked the black unis. And I do associate them with the 1999-2000 seasons.

HahnSolo
Sep 20 2006 08:36 AM

No black unis at home, please. If I have to see black, let it be on the road.

Did I read somewhere, maybe this forum, that it's Charlie Samuels' call on what uniforms to wear for each game?

SteveJRogers
Sep 20 2006 08:45 AM

In the words of Frayed Knot, though he does come a little from out in LF =;)

Well you wonder why Mets always dress in black,
why you never see bright colors on their backs.
And why does their appearance seem to have a somber tone?
Well there's a reason for the unis they have on.

They wear black for the poor and the beaten down,
for those not living on the south Bronx side of town.
They wear 'em for the teams that have long paid for their crimes
but are down as though they're victims of the times.

Well they wear black for the fans who've never read,
or listened to to words that Bill James said.
Of learning about baseball through statistical theory,
why it's as if he's talking straight to you and me.

While some are doin' mighty fine I do suppose,
with all their rings and their fancy pin-striped clothes.
But just to be reminded of the ones who are held black,
in New York there oughta be a team in black.

Yes they wear black for bitter and the old,
and for the ones whose road trips leave them cold.
They wear 'em for the young players whose careers have never been,
each year we draft a hundred fine young men.

And they wear black for the thousands who have cried
thinking that the fates would be their guide.
And they wear 'em for the dreams of those pennants that have died,
when it seems as if the umps weren't on their side.

Well there's things that never will be right I know,
and things need changing everywhere Bud Selig goes.
But until the basic agreement starts to make a few things right,
you'll never see Mets wearing only white

Oh we'd love to wear blue and orange everyday,
and tell the world that everything's O-K.
But for now the daily standings form a burden on our backs,
and until things are brighter we'll be the team in black

SteveJRogers
Sep 20 2006 08:46 AM

HahnSolo wrote:
No black unis at home, please. If I have to see black, let it be on the road.

Did I read somewhere, maybe this forum, that it's Charlie Samuels' call on what uniforms to wear for each game?


Yes, some teams its the Starting Pitcher, but for the Mets its Charlie's call

metirish
Sep 20 2006 09:14 AM

]

Did I read somewhere, maybe this forum, that it's Charlie Samuels' call on what uniforms to wear for each game?


Ron and Gary were talking about this last night,Ron would like to see more of the clasic home uni with blue caps,Gary said that if you asked Charlie Samuels' he'd tell you that the Mets win/loss record on those uniforms is not good.

cooby
Sep 20 2006 09:14 AM

Do they ever still wear black?

soupcan
Sep 20 2006 09:28 AM

Hate, hate, hate, hate, hate, hate the black unis and the black drop shadow on the Mets script on the white unis and the white pinstriped unis as well as on the 'New York' across the chest of the road grays.

I also detest the all black hats with the tri-color 'NY'.

I do like the black hats with the blue bill and think that these hats should be road hats, worn only with the road grays that say 'New York' (sans drop shadow of course).

The only solace I take when I see the Mets wearing all black is that a black uniform does have some precedence in baseball history...


Baltimore circa 1901


New York, National League circa 1905

These were the only examples I could find but I think there was a team named the Spiders that also wore all black unis around the turn of the century.

Yancy Street Gang
Sep 20 2006 09:31 AM

I also despise the black jerseys and the all-black caps. While I prefer blue caps and pinstripes, I don't object to the blue and black caps or to the all-white home uniforms.

I know that the variations exist because they help sell more merchandise, and I'm okay with that. So I'd allow the black jerseys and caps to continue, but they should be used very sparingly.

And I want to see pinstripes and blue in the postseason. I think (though I'm not sure) the Mets may have worn black jerseys and caps for every postseason game they played in 1999 and 2000.

soupcan
Sep 20 2006 09:37 AM

Yancy Street Gang wrote:
I I think (though I'm not sure) the Mets may have worn black jerseys and caps for every postseason game they played in 1999 and 2000.


And since those postseasons did not end the way we would've wanted, its time to change the karma.

metirish
Sep 20 2006 09:38 AM

]

And I want to see pinstripes and blue in the postseason. I think (though I'm not sure) the Mets may have worn black jerseys and caps for every postseason game they played in 1999 and 2000.



Ron asked Gary about that last night and Gary thought they wore the black in just about every game going to the WS.

MFS62
Sep 20 2006 09:44 AM

Edgy DC wrote:
Black is black
I want my Nady back


Grey is grey
Only for a road game day.

Later

Mr. Zero
Sep 20 2006 10:19 AM

the only reason the Mets put on the black unis was to move more merch. the black happened to be the color of the moment when they were introduced. all part of the mets unfortunate and self-induced identity crisis (don't get me started on why the new stadium has to look like Ebbets Field. yeesh).

this plague of drop shadows, multiple outlines, and dimensional looking type and logos is pervasive throughout sports and will hopefully (though I'm not that hopeful) go away soon.

HahnSolo
Sep 20 2006 10:20 AM

In 2000, they wore white unis when Agbayani hit the HR against the Giants, so they didn't wear black in every game. They also wore white in WS games 3 and 5, IIRC.

HahnSolo
Sep 20 2006 10:22 AM

SteveJRogers wrote:
="HahnSolo"]No black unis at home, please. If I have to see black, let it be on the road.

Did I read somewhere, maybe this forum, that it's Charlie Samuels' call on what uniforms to wear for each game?


Yes, some teams its the Starting Pitcher, but for the Mets its Charlie's call


Curious, why is it his decision?

Yancy Street Gang
Sep 20 2006 10:24 AM

I think we need a bloodless coup.

Edgy DC
Sep 20 2006 10:34 AM
Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Oct 08 2006 11:51 PM

Yeah.

I was just looking at an issue of Inside Pitch, with Reyes and Wright on the cover, Reyes in royal cap and pinstrip, Wright in all white with the deep blue and black batting helmet and the deep blue trim on the all-white uniform.

Reyes looked like a Met, Wright looked like a player for a nondescript college team.

The black is a leftover from a gangsta-chic era, and, like any timeless insitltution that affiliates itself with a passing trend, the Mets end up looking stupid and tired --- rather than timeless and noble --- wthen the trend passes.

And just keeping multiple uniforms in cicrulation is a crass attempt ot maximize profit in the short term, while ignoring the long-tem financial effects of degrading a brand.

Two uniforms.

SteveJRogers
Sep 20 2006 12:11 PM

Yup. Hence also the rather un-baseball like caps that MLB (and every other league) have been pushing for championship celebrations.

These caps are created soley for the non-baseball fan (both male and female) that hate the regular baseball cap (built a little too tough not snug fitting, and too warm to wear on a regular basis, ect) to pick up more merchandise so they can look "chic" and "hip" by wearing a cap symbolizing a MLB team (or any team) that achieved a championship (or a postseason birth)

seawolf17
Sep 20 2006 02:58 PM

How about the circa-mid 90's white hat?



AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA! God, those were ugly.

soupcan
Sep 20 2006 03:43 PM

I, um, liked those.

Valadius
Sep 20 2006 03:44 PM

Oh MAN those look horrible.

ScarletKnight41
Sep 20 2006 03:45 PM

Ick!

KC
Sep 20 2006 05:04 PM

The black has grown on me, but I still signed the petitioin ... I won't miss it
if it becomes extinct.

Johnny Dickshot
Sep 20 2006 06:38 PM

Well, it's not like they couldn't sell black jerseys. AFAIC, they can sell pink jerseys. It's really about what the players wear.

I have zero confidence the petition will do much of anything, but I signed on.

Johnny Dickshot
Oct 08 2006 10:21 PM

Times...

]October 8, 2006
Flushing
At Shea, the Name of the Game Is Color War
By JOHN FREEMAN GILL

When the New York Mets took the field at Shea Stadium on Wednesday for Game 1 of the National League Division Series, Paul Lukas, an ardent lifelong fan, was in the loge, wearing a blue Mr. Met cap and cheering the players on.

It was a beautiful afternoon for baseball, with red, white and blue bunting fringing the green grass beneath a deep blue sky. But amid all the color and pageantry, Mr. Lukas could not help feeling rankled by the inclusion of one nontraditional hue in the team’s uniforms: black, the dominant color in the Mets’ caps.

“It’s the home opener, they’ve got the bunting up, and the blue cap is their official home cap as stated in the Major League Baseball Style Guide,” said Mr. Lukas, the editor of Uni Watch blog, a Web log devoted to sports uniforms. “They’ve got all this tradition going on, and they can’t even honor their own tradition.”

When the Mets began play in 1962, the fifth season after the Brooklyn Dodgers’ and New York Giants’ much-lamented departures for California, their uniform incorporated blue and orange as a respectful nod to those two franchises. But in 1998, the Mets began including black in the team’s home and away uniforms, in various combinations.

“The black was added as a style element based on some degree of research of fans in terms of what was popular in the marketplace,” Dave Howard, the Mets’ executive vice president of business operations, said on Thursday. “At the time, our traditional hats and uniforms were selling hardly at all.”

But to Mr. Lukas, the change bordered on sartorial sacrilege. “It would be like if in Washington they decided that the red, white and blue is a little outdated, and maybe we should change the red to a burgundy,” he said. Consequently, as the team charged toward the high-visibility postseason, Mr. Lukas launched a playful but heartfelt campaign calling on the Mets to banish black from their uniforms and “reinstate blue to its place of chromatic supremacy in the team’s color scheme.” So far, more than 800 fans have signed on to his petition, at www.ditchtheblack.com.

Mr. Howard said that the Mets’ uniforms would remain the same through 2007 but that the team might revisit the issue for the opening of the club’s new ballpark in 2009. Still, he said, “if you look around the building, you’re seeing a lot of the black, so it’s clear fans vote most effectively with their pocketbook.”

In Shea’s loge, opinions on the question were mixed.

“They’ve had a lot of losing in the past, so it’s cool they have something newer, to start a new tradition,” said Derik Aasan, a 28-year-old beer sales representative.

Joe Campbell, a 50-year-old database administrator, disagreed. “For a lot of people, blue and orange is what they grew up with, and a change from that is a change from tradition, so it doesn’t appeal,” he said.

Why, then, was Mr. Campbell wearing a predominantly black Mets jersey? “It was the only one I could get,” he said ruefully.

DocTee
Oct 08 2006 10:48 PM

IIRC, Samuels opts for black hats to keep with Rick Peterson's jacket...having a blue hat and black jacket would look tacky (as opposed to black hats and jackets, which just looks bad).

Ban the Black.

Edgy DC
Oct 09 2006 12:20 AM

Some quick Googlin' reveals that Derik Aasan was a successful Division III NCAA pitcher after starring at Smithtown. He now distributes Stone Beer.

Shouldn't John Freeman Gill have revealed Paul's day job?

The Big O
Oct 09 2006 12:27 AM

SteveJRogers wrote:
(or a postseason birth)


Bringing fresh meaning to an announcer saying "and he delivers ..."

Centerfield
Oct 09 2006 11:11 AM

I will never wear the blue hat again until they ditch the stupid looking orange dot.

I also like the black/deep blue trim on the snow white jerseys. I like that 3-D effect it gives it.

But then again, I also like the black jerseys.

The white hat is cool too.

Farmer Ted
Oct 09 2006 11:36 AM

I try to coordinate my game-day outfit to match what the Mets are wearing that day. Each night I have every jersey and hat combo on stand-by not knowing what they're going to wear. It drives me nuts. Most days I don't know until the broadcast comes on at 7. When I go to the games I have ALL combinations in my car trunk. When I get there I have to pay the MTA $2 to get up on the #7 platform to see what they're wearing and go back to my car to make the change. When I was taking the #7, jeez, I had to take a whole suitcase. Last year I went to the game in Milwaukee and wore TWO jerseys at once and had to re-layer the combo once I found out which jersey they were wearing (black). Trouble was that I only wore one hat (all black) and they ended up wearing the black with blue visor. I was so freaking pissed. I went to the souvenir shop and all they had was the blue. That damn Charlie Samuels got several letters from me that week. Then, for crying out loud, I completely forgot about '86 throwback weekend and looked like a total dunce when I had the pinstripes on but without the orange and blue piping down the side. Don't even get me started on the orange button on the cap. And since when did red become the dominant color of the Cyclones? I looked like a goofball there, too, with my blue-sleeved undershirt. I signed the petition and want to hand deliver it to the Wilpons myself.

cooby
Oct 09 2006 11:38 AM

Thanks, that laugh made my day :)

Edgy DC
Oct 09 2006 11:45 AM

I think the orange dot is to trick us, to give us something banal to bitch about and keep us from organizing to defeat the black jersey forces.

Yancy Street Gang
Oct 09 2006 11:49 AM

I see the orange dot as benign. I'd prefer to see the blue button, but it's not nearly as offensive as the all-black caps and the black jerseys.

DocTee
Oct 09 2006 11:54 AM

Do any other teams have a different color dot? I think the Dodgers may have white, but am unsure.

Centerfield
Oct 09 2006 12:15 PM

Help me fight the dot and I will join you in your battle against black.

Spacemans Bong
Oct 09 2006 12:46 PM

metirish wrote:
]

Did I read somewhere, maybe this forum, that it's Charlie Samuels' call on what uniforms to wear for each game?


Ron and Gary were talking about this last night,Ron would like to see more of the clasic home uni with blue caps,Gary said that if you asked Charlie Samuels' he'd tell you that the Mets win/loss record on those uniforms is not good.

Yeah, they only won two World Series titles in them.

Spacemans Bong
Oct 09 2006 12:50 PM

DocTee wrote:
Do any other teams have a different color dot? I think the Dodgers may have white, but am unsure.

The formerly located in Harlem Giants also sport an orange dot.

Which is probably where the orange dot came from.

Edgy DC
Oct 09 2006 03:07 PM

Centerfield wrote:
Help me fight the dot and I will join you in your battle against black.


No.

Prioritites must be priorities.

It's a contrasting dot. Not a foolhardy jump on a negative trend to redesign the whole freaking uniform paradigm.

Get over it. And this discussion almost invariably brings up the brief extinct white cap experiment. Excuse me, but if your culture is under occupation, it is not a springboard to compare it to occupations past, but a call to action.

martin
Oct 09 2006 03:16 PM

the main problem with black is that it isnt orange.

Nymr83
Oct 09 2006 03:58 PM

]And just keeping multiple uniforms in cicrulation is a crass attempt ot maximize profit in the short term, while ignoring the long-tem financial effects of degrading a brand.


is there any proof that adding more jerseys has a negative long term effect? i'd like to see it.

personally i dont like the black because it adds a completely new color to the team's color scheme, i wouldnt mind minor variations on the existing colors (such as the gray uniform with and without the stripe on the side.)

i think they should keep wearing the black for spring training and batting practice to help sell the damn things but stick to the traditional colors for regular season and postseason games.

Yancy Street Gang
Oct 09 2006 04:03 PM

Nymr83 wrote:
i think they should keep wearing the black for spring training and batting practice to help sell the damn things but stick to the traditional colors for regular season and postseason games.


I can't argue that. But I understand that marketing is a necessary evil, so I'd even grant the black limited usage in regular season games. (People are more likely to want to buy them if they look like the caps and jerseys that appear in games.)

If they wore the traditional uniform about three quarters of the time, and used the alternative caps and jerseys the remainder of the time, I'd be satisfied.

Yancy Street Gang
Oct 09 2006 04:06 PM

Dave Howard wrote:
“The black was added as a style element based on some degree of research of fans in terms of what was popular in the marketplace,” Dave Howard, the Mets’ executive vice president of business operations, said on Thursday. “At the time, our traditional hats and uniforms were selling hardly at all.”


They were selling hardly at all because the Mets had pretty much sucked for six or seven years.

The black was introduced in 1998, the same year as Mike Piazza and a near miss at a Wild Card berth. People would have started buying more Mets merchandise that year anyway.

Edgy DC
Oct 09 2006 04:08 PM

... if they were pink and covered with turtles.

Yancy Street Gang
Oct 09 2006 04:14 PM

What color would the turtles be?

Johnny Dickshot
Oct 09 2006 05:51 PM

Nymr83 wrote:
]And just keeping multiple uniforms in cicrulation is a crass attempt ot maximize profit in the short term, while ignoring the long-tem financial effects of degrading a brand.


is there any proof that adding more jerseys has a negative long term effect? i'd like to see it.


Packaging and brand experts would tell you so.

soupcan
Oct 09 2006 10:14 PM

="DocTee"]Do any other teams have a different color dot? I think the Dodgers may have white, but am unsure.


Cubs.

Willets Point
Oct 10 2006 01:02 AM

Yancy Street Gang wrote:
="Dave Howard"]“The black was added as a style element based on some degree of research of fans in terms of what was popular in the marketplace,” Dave Howard, the Mets’ executive vice president of business operations, said on Thursday. “At the time, our traditional hats and uniforms were selling hardly at all.”


They were selling hardly at all because the Mets had pretty much sucked for six or seven years.

The black was introduced in 1998, the same year as Mike Piazza and a near miss at a Wild Card berth. People would have started buying more Mets merchandise that year anyway.


I think other teams have demonstrated that you can sell merch in all sorts of crazy designs without the team actually wearing them on the field.

Edgy DC
Oct 14 2006 10:20 PM

How about ditching the black in the middle of this game?

Valadius
Oct 14 2006 10:26 PM

I'm in favor of it.

Willets Point
Oct 14 2006 10:29 PM

Naked players are motivated players.

Zvon
Oct 14 2006 10:33 PM

Willets Point wrote:
Naked players are motivated players.


lmao--hey--im with yaz.
I mean,...last night--maybe the black may have been appropriete.
Fri 13th and all---
Do they still have black for home Jerseys?

cooby
Oct 15 2006 12:22 AM

Willets Point wrote:
Naked players are motivated players.


Especially during an early cold snap.

cleonjones11
Oct 15 2006 12:44 AM

White at home with Blue pinstripes. Blue hat orange dot
Road gray NEW YORK on front.Same hat... Zero variations.

If they lose tomorrow naked game 5 with blue jockstraps only....

MFS62
Oct 15 2006 08:50 AM

Are there any statistics that show whether team plays better when wearing black or when naked?
And are those statistics recent?
I cannot accept a feeling that isn't based on the latest statistics. None of that "they won when they played naked in 2004" stuff. That was a different wind they faced in those games.

Later

soupcan
Oct 16 2006 09:47 AM

[u:19f9c23d4a]2006 NLCS[/u:19f9c23d4a]

Snow whites/Black & blue hats 1-1
Black unis/Black hats 0-1
Road grays/Black & blue hats 1-0
Pinstripes/blue hats 0-0

Ditch the friggin' black already, give the stripes a shot!

Centerfield
Oct 16 2006 02:09 PM



soupcan to address the media at 4 p.m. regarding the incriminating photos popping up around the internet that have threatened his good-standing in the Ditch-the-Black movement. No word from the KC and Vic camps.

Yancy Street Gang
Oct 16 2006 02:14 PM

From the first page of this thread:

soupcan wrote:
I do like the black hats with the blue bill and think that these hats should be road hats, worn only with the road grays that say 'New York' (sans drop shadow of course).


I also have one of the black and blue caps. (I also have a blue one, albeit with the orange button, and a classic blue Brooklyn Dodgers cap.) I'm thinking of taking the black-and-blue one to Japan next month. I figure I'll stand out enough over there without plopping a bright blue and orange baseball cap on my head.

(I often wear a baseball cap when I'm out of doors for extended periods to protect my bald head from the elements.)

Vic Sage
Oct 16 2006 02:16 PM

wow... a "black"mail photo!

does that hat make me look fat?
Or is it just caused by my surplus of blubberage?

soupcan
Oct 16 2006 02:30 PM

Centerfield wrote:
soupcan to address the media at 4 p.m. regarding the incriminating photos popping up around the internet that have threatened his good-standing in the Ditch-the-Black movement. No word from the KC and Vic camps.


="Yancy Street Gang"]From the first page of this thread: soupcan wrote: I do like the black hats with the blue bill and think that these hats should be road hats, worn only with the road grays that say 'New York' (sans drop shadow of course).


Centerfield to address the media at 4:15 regarding his non-existent research and blatant attempt to discredit fellow forum members.

Centerfield
Oct 16 2006 02:35 PM

="soupcan"]Centerfield to address the media at 4:15 regarding his non-existent research and blatant attempt to discredit fellow forum members.


I'm trying to land a job at the Post.

soupcan
Oct 19 2006 11:54 AM

Pinstripes and blue hats 1-0.

No excuse not to go with this classic combo tonight.

Rockin' Doc
Oct 19 2006 01:12 PM

I agree. It should be pinstripes and Blue hats tonight.

Edgy DC
Oct 19 2006 01:14 PM

Every night.

Rockin' Doc
Oct 19 2006 01:22 PM

That would be fine with me.

Valadius
Oct 19 2006 01:23 PM

You gotta stick with the blue.

MFS62
Oct 19 2006 01:26 PM

While I'm all for tradition.
And superstition.
Its what's inside the uniform that counts.

Later

soupcan
Oct 19 2006 01:35 PM

Yes but this particular thread here happens to be about the uniforms..

MFS62
Oct 19 2006 01:41 PM

="soupcan"]Yes but this particular thread here happens to be about the uniforms..


I know.
And I just tried to comment on unis from my perspective.

But, as I have also said, I am superstitious. So if wearing a certain type of uni will result in a win, I'm all for it.

Later

soupcan
Oct 19 2006 01:44 PM

metsmarathon
Oct 19 2006 08:36 PM

y'know, i like the cards with the black hats