Master Index of Archived Threads


MFY/Tigers Series

A Boy Named Seo Oct 03 2006 08:29 PM

1) Jeanie Zelasko was looking kinda slutty in the pre-game show. I likey. 2) FOX seems to have finally figured out a way to superimpose a banner behind home plate without completely and totally annoying me. 3) Go Tigers.

metirish Oct 03 2006 08:34 PM

I fucking hate when organ player at yankee stadium plays the "lets go yankees" tune.....just one of the many reasons why I hate that franchise, and if they roll out Ronan Tyan tonight I will have a fit.

Willets Point Oct 03 2006 08:36 PM

]if they roll out Ronan Tyan tonight I will have a fit. One of my top ten reasons I don't want a Subway Series.

metirish Oct 03 2006 08:45 PM

Wang gets out of trouble and we go to the second with no score...

OlerudOwned Oct 03 2006 08:46 PM

Prettier woman, Magglio Ordonez or Danny Graves?

A Boy Named Seo Oct 03 2006 08:53 PM

OlerudOwned wrote: Prettier woman, Magglio Ordonez or Danny Graves? I was thinking Magglio reminded me of that chick who plays DB for the Steelers.

metirish Oct 03 2006 08:54 PM

The guy with the samoan name and crazy hair?

A Boy Named Seo Oct 03 2006 08:55 PM

Yeah, that's her.

Gwreck Oct 03 2006 09:00 PM

If Joe Buck says "Murderer's Row and Cano" one more time I'm going to Yankee Stadium to personally strangle him. Strange night that he's more annoying than McCarver....so far.

metirish Oct 03 2006 09:00 PM

Only because Tim sounds like he has a hoarse throat....

Johnny Dickshot Oct 03 2006 09:08 PM

]Strange night that he's more annoying than McCarver....so far. I don't think much of Buck any night. What'd he ever do to deserve the national assignments?

metirish Oct 03 2006 09:09 PM

Famous name and Father....

metirish Oct 03 2006 09:17 PM

Second time through the order the MFY's are up 3 zip..

Johnny Dickshot Oct 03 2006 09:18 PM

I'm gonna stab myself if the f-ing Tigers make any more outs on the basepaths.

metirish Oct 03 2006 09:19 PM

I imagine tiger fans are so freaking tired of this MFY lovefest from Joe and Tim.

KC Oct 03 2006 09:33 PM

I turned it off, it's just not entertaining to me this early in the playoffs. Some yuckster at work tomorrow is gonna say, "how can you turn it off, you're such a big baseball fan" to which I will reply, "that's right, I am". If the eagle flies in for the seventh inning stretch and someone shoots it, you'll know where I went. Later © © 2002 MFS LLC

Willets Point Oct 03 2006 09:42 PM

Well, this result was freakin' predictable.

Edgy DC Oct 03 2006 09:48 PM

Way to go, Craig Monroe. Welcome to the playoffs, Tigers.

Gwreck Oct 03 2006 09:50 PM

Keep talking about football, Joe. I'm getting ready to drive over to the Bronx right now, I've got my garrote ready.

seawolf17 Oct 03 2006 09:51 PM

Gwreck wrote: If Joe Buck says "Murderer's Row and Cano" one more time I'm going to Yankee Stadium to personally strangle him. Strange night that he's more annoying than McCarver....so far. As you might have guessed, the CBS Radio Broadcast Team Who Will Remain Nameless were beating that one to death also. I wish ESPN Radio didn't suck. I'm not even turning on the TV tonight.

metirish Oct 03 2006 09:52 PM

hey it's a 5 - 2 game......Go tigers

Edgy DC Oct 03 2006 09:53 PM

McCarver's fine to me tonight Placido Polanco is better than fine, bringing Inge home from first with a double.

Edgy DC Oct 03 2006 09:54 PM

Sean Casey says, "I'm so happy to not be in last place that I"m going to double into the Power Alley Formerly Known as Death Valley," and the Tigers are totally in this game.

Johnny Dickshot Oct 03 2006 09:55 PM

Here come the Tigers. I have the sound down and my back to the TV, works great that way.

Gwreck Oct 03 2006 09:58 PM

I'm consoling myself with my Tigers hat and Yankees Suck T-shirt... ...while getting the stuff together for the game tomorrow.

Edgy DC Oct 03 2006 10:20 PM

Who is that punk on-the-spot reporter? What a dorkus.

Willets Point Oct 03 2006 10:27 PM

You watching this on TV Edge? MLB Gameday Audio won't work and of course Boston sports radio would never deign to play a postseason game that doesn't involve a Boston franchise. I hate this.

Edgy DC Oct 03 2006 10:32 PM

Yeah, I dug the tube out and am watching FOX.

metirish Oct 03 2006 10:33 PM

I hate when Joe Buck tries to be funny.......

cooby Oct 03 2006 10:33 PM

At least you don't have to pretend to laugh

Elster88 Oct 03 2006 10:34 PM

Did anyone see if Torre cried when they clinched?

Edgy DC Oct 03 2006 10:37 PM

Tim McCarver: Cheering on both sides of the world for Wang tonight. And tomorrow morning. Haven't won yet, Timo.

Edgy DC Oct 03 2006 10:39 PM

Curtis Granderson, American hero!

Elster88 Oct 03 2006 10:42 PM

I made a snarky remark about Torre going to the pen too early, and removed it. Looks like I may have been right.

metirish Oct 03 2006 10:44 PM

Does anyone really believe that Torre will ONLY use Rivera for the ninth and only the ninth...please.

metirish Oct 03 2006 10:48 PM

Ronan fucking Tynan.......puke

Edgy DC Oct 03 2006 10:51 PM

Ms. Edgy watching the extende prelude GBA remix of Ronan Tynan: "This seems like something out out a Cohen Brothers movie. Good night."

Edgy DC Oct 03 2006 11:08 PM

Kyle Farsworth... cooperating so far.

Elster88 Oct 03 2006 11:11 PM

Vito Spatafore in the crowd.

Elster88 Oct 03 2006 11:14 PM

That's a funny sound, or combinations of sounds: The crowd pumped up for a strike 3, thinking they got one but the ump fakes them out by not signaling right away (an aborted roar followed by a groan), and then seeing the signal (the roar). PS: How many L's in signaling?

Elster88 Oct 03 2006 11:15 PM

The good news is that Farnsworth's numbers are atrocious on the second day when he pitches two in a row.

Elster88 Oct 03 2006 11:19 PM

Is Rivera injured or something?

Edgy DC Oct 03 2006 11:22 PM

Tender elbow.

Elster88 Oct 03 2006 11:22 PM

Look I hate the fact that Yankee fans are always going down on him as much as anyone....but the guy is fucking 5-5 tonight. That's impressive.

Elster88 Oct 03 2006 11:24 PM

I don't understand why people cup their hands over their mouths when chanting in a large arena with 55000 other people.

metirish Oct 03 2006 11:28 PM

Jeter is fucking amazin..I hate to say that but I must...the only solace I take from that is that must put severe pressure on A-Rod...like "why can't I be like him"...I know I am clutching here but have too look for anything.

SteveJRogers Oct 03 2006 11:31 PM

FOX may break their record from 2000 with the most shots of NEEEWWW YAWKERS in a postseason In the DS series ALONE

Frayed Knot Oct 03 2006 11:31 PM

="Elster88"]Look I hate the fact that Yankee fans are always going down on him as much as anyone....but the guy is fucking 5-5 tonight. That's impressive. The guy's had a great game, no question. The only annoying part is going to be hearing about how he's more likely to have a game like this because it's October, when if fact; a) that's demonstrably untrue (his Oct v reg numbers are virtually identical) and b) if it were true wouldn't that imply that he slacks off during the 162 game season by not trying as hard as he can? And P.S. How would an ARod solo HR in the 8th inning of a game the Yanx were already up by 3 be treated?

metirish Oct 03 2006 11:33 PM

]And P.S. How would an ARod solo HR in the 8th inning of a game the Yanx were already up by 3 be treated? Like shit...means nothing.

Elster88 Oct 03 2006 11:34 PM

="Frayed Knot"] ="Elster88"]Look I hate the fact that Yankee fans are always going down on him as much as anyone....but the guy is fucking 5-5 tonight. That's impressive. The guy's had a great game, no question. The only annoying part is going to be hearing about how he's more likely to have a game like this because it's October, when if fact; a) that's demonstrably untrue (his Oct v reg numbers are virtually identical) and b) if it were true wouldn't that imply that he slacks off during the 162 game season by not trying as hard as he can? And P.S. How would an ARod solo HR in the 8th inning of a game the Yanx were already up by 3 be treated? I agree with "a" and "b". But of course those and the postscript are examples of Yankee fans getting on their knees for their gods and spitting on everyone else....which I acknowledged as being incredibly annoying to me too.

Gwreck Oct 03 2006 11:37 PM

Wow, Ken Rosenthal, that was terrible. "Derek, 5-5 tonight, how locked in were you?" "You heard the crowd chanting your name, you heard the chants of 'M-V-P,' how much were you thinking about possibly winning your first MVP award?" Gee, Ken, could you come up with even better softball questions?

metirish Oct 03 2006 11:41 PM

]Gee, Ken, could you come up with even better softball questions? How lame was that, if we had a lower camera angle I am sure we would have seen Ken wetting himself..

Edgy DC Oct 03 2006 11:44 PM

Derek Jeter, in post-season play, going into tonight: .307 / .379 / .463 // .842. Alex Rodriguez, in post-season play, going into tonight: .305 / .393 / .534 // .927. Congratulations to Derek, who sure took a big stride toward closing the gap tonight. If only Alex Rodriguez could close the gap in people's ability to perceive without bias.

Gwreck Oct 03 2006 11:59 PM

But Edgy...I don't care what the stats say. He's a WINNER. 4 Rings! The intangibles he brings!

Edgy DC Oct 04 2006 12:11 AM

I'm going to have to explain this to S. tomorrow.

Zvon Oct 04 2006 12:17 AM

I fell asleep in my easy chair early in the game. Had a wacky dream where 55,000 people were singing a song called DerekJeter. So,.....what i miss?

metirish Oct 04 2006 10:13 AM

Jeter had a great night but Ken Davidoff is in love. [url=http://www.newsday.com/sports/baseball/ny-sbken044917836oct04,0,3678083.column?coll=ny-tintboxrelateds-sports]I love you Jetes[/url]

Johnny Dickshot Oct 04 2006 10:14 AM

Edgy DC wrote: I'm going to have to explain this to S. tomorrow. You've been derelict in reporting what she's been wearing for days now.

soupcan Oct 04 2006 10:15 AM

Please someone give me some stats that proves Jeter sucks.

cooby Oct 04 2006 10:16 AM

Edgy DC wrote: I'm going to have to explain this to S. tomorrow. You're just looking for an excuse to talk to her. And this is a lame excuse

Edgy DC Oct 04 2006 10:18 AM

No, shit, that's the thing. She stands in doorways to chat. And she's going to want to talk about Jeter. I know better than to court the devil, believe me.

Willets Point Oct 04 2006 10:32 AM

Well so far my prediction of the Yankees rolling through the postseason with an 11-1 record and a minimum of five runs per game is on target. Please -- will some team prove me wrong!!!

cooby Oct 04 2006 10:43 AM

Edgy DC wrote: No, shit, that's the thing. She stands in doorways to chat. And she's going to want to talk about Jeter. I know better than to court the devil, believe me. Does she, you know, ever WORK? Sounds like Yancy's old heartthrob.

MFS62 Oct 04 2006 12:12 PM

Is the world ready for a double dose of Joe Morgan? I read that there will be a car waiting for him outside Shea. As soon as the Mets' game is over, he will be rushed to Yankee Stadium to "cover" that game too. To all the baseball fans who will only be able to catch the games on radio - you are lucky. Later

Willets Point Oct 04 2006 12:14 PM

I can deal with Morgan. He says things that are mind-numbingly obvious but he's generally affable. Buck and McCarver are just plain annoying with their ceaseless talking and efforts to show how smart they are. And McCarver's voice is whiny and nasal too.

Johnny Dickshot Oct 04 2006 12:24 PM

Morgan can be wrong as they come in his comments but I generally like him too. I quite enjoy Jon Miller & him together. The Internet smartypants contingent is pretty rough on Joe.

Edgy DC Oct 04 2006 12:32 PM

Joe is pretty rough on newer thinking too, to be fair. He's been pretty entrenched and hostile for some years now. http://www.sfweekly.com/Issues/2005-07-06/news/feature_print.html

metirish Oct 04 2006 12:36 PM

That link is blocked for me at work, I guess people hammer Joe because he beats to death that in the postseason you have to manufacture runs as opposed to the moneyball theory,and even when proven wrong he still beats it to death.

Edgy DC Oct 04 2006 12:41 PM

My point is in part that Joe has been known to hammer them first. Here's another link to the same article: http://www.sfweekly.com/issues/2005-07-06/news/feature.html

metirish Oct 04 2006 01:09 PM

The IS geeks at work suck,that link is blocked,any chance you could paste it edgy,appreciate it.

metirish Oct 04 2006 01:24 PM

Edgy forget it,I'll read it later from home.

Edgy DC Oct 04 2006 01:29 PM

Sure, it's long, though, and its just one example. From sfweekly.com Originally published by SF Weekly 2005-07-06 ©2005 New Times, Inc. All rights reserved. Say-It-Ain't-So Joe Why does Joe Morgan -- the best second baseman in history and a prominent TV broadcaster -- hate Moneyball? And Billy Beane and his Oakland A's? And you, too, if you think the statistical revolution that's overwhelmed Major League Baseball has any By Tommy Craggs Rich Arden The earth beneath Joe Morgan's feet is impossibly flat, every bump smoothed over, every blemish manicured into oblivion, all so that a white cork-filled ball might roll straight and true, the way it has for a hundred years. I am standing with Morgan, the ESPN analyst and Hall of Fame second baseman, at the edge of the emerald grass at SBC Park, where in two hours the San Francisco Giants will play the Oakland A's, a game Morgan will explain to America from a booth high above the field. This is his job: to elucidate the game, or, more precisely, The Game, which is what old ballplayers like to call baseball, and which Joe pronounces with infinite reverence and implied capitalization, the way some people say, "The Pope." From the margin of the field Morgan half-watches the Giants go about their batting practice. There is an easy Sunday rhythm to the proceedings, and the field stretches out before us bright and green, a true American candyland. It's on days like this that baseball -- The Game -- has its best stuff working, the kind of afternoon that has sent workaday newspaper hacks into deadline reveries and inspired every egghead dilettante in a bow tie to get a book deal. None of this is on Joe's mind, however. In fact, he is shaking his head and looking displeased. "You guys are a joke," he is saying, and it occurs to me that Joe Morgan might be thinking about strangling me. He is a small man -- they called him "Little Joe" in his playing days -- and you can see his 61 years in the gray around his mustache and the slight hitch in his walk, but standing here, fairly gleaming in his ex-jock mufti, Joe looks young, fit, and content. His shoes are fine and tasseled, his suit is a resplendent cream, his jacket is slung insouciantly over his left shoulder -- an iridescent look that falls somewhere between churchgoer and deckhand on the Love Boat. Morgan, who grew up in Oakland and lives in Danville, is the analyst for ESPN's Sunday Night Baseball. In a few hours he will appear on hundreds of thousands of television screens across America. He will have a microphone positioned beneath his chin and an easy, welcoming smile on his face. First-time viewers will think him a pleasant, patient, good-humored man. They will be wrong. "You're a joke, too," he says to me now, and in a moment his right cheek will start to twitch, and his voice will hit its querulous upper registers, and a few sportswriters will crane their necks and listen in. Joe Morgan -- the greatest second baseman who ever lived and an Emmy-winning analyst who also happens to be the most insufferable sportscaster since Howard Cosell returned to his mother ship -- is angry. And why is Joe Morgan angry? It has something to do with a book Joe Morgan hasn't read. "Both of you are jokes," he is saying, and what I will learn is that there are many jokes in Joe's world. We are jokes, those of us who dare have a thought or a theory about The Game though we have never worn the flannels of a baseball team; we are jokes, those of us who think a catcher has an effect on base stealing; we are jokes, those of us who believe in science and reason. The Oakland A's, if I may extrapolate, are a joke. Their general manager is a joke (though he played The Game). The front office of the world-champion Boston Red Sox is a joke. The guy in the ESPN.com chat room who had the temerity to question Joe Morgan's wisdom is definitely a joke. The author of Moneyball? Joe's not sure who that is, but he's sure he's a joke. The writer Bill James is a joke, and so for that matter is the entire masthead of Baseball Prospectus. I'm a joke. You're a joke. We're jokes, if not all of us, very, very many of us. So I wonder: Why isn't Joe Morgan laughing? Socratic exchange with Joe Morgan No. 1, on the subject of Moneyball, base running in the 2002 American League Division Series, and the use of statistics in baseball: Me: It seems that you almost take [the book] personally. Joe: I took it personally because they had a personal thing about me saying Durham should've stolen second base in the game that they lost -- he stayed at first base, and they hit three fly balls, and the A's lose another fifth game. Me: And that's the chief reason you don't even wanna read the book? Joe: I don't read books like that. I didn't read Bill James' book, and you said he was complimenting me. Why would I wanna read a book about a computer, that gives computer numbers? Me: It's not about a computer. Joe: Well, I'm not reading the book, so I wouldn't know. Me: I'm not -- Joe: Why would I wanna read the book? All I'm saying is, I see a game every day. I watch baseball every day. I have a better understanding about why things happen than the computer, because the computer only tells you what you put in it. I could make that computer say what I wanted it to say, if I put the right things in there. ... The computer is only as good as what you put in it. How do you think we got Enron? Somewhere between the playing field and the sky sits the broadcast booth, a sort of nursing home for former players, or at least for those former players who can get from subject to object without spraining an ankle. The booth is where old ballplayers go to turn senile. There, the utmost commonplaces are dispensed with the air of commandments -- Entertainment Weekly once referred to Fox's Tim McCarver as the "Master of the Obvious" -- simply because the head from which they issue once bore the hat of a major-league ball club. It wasn't always so. Time was, the color analyst was brought in just so Howard Cosell would have someone to condescend to; he was comic relief. Today, however, the analyst is regarded as an ambassador of The Game. Not only is he, as a former player, keenly attuned to frequencies no casual fan could ever hear, he is a man with Important Opinions on How The Game Should Be Played. "The Angels played The Game the way it's supposed to be played," Morgan is saying now. We're standing on the hard pink track skirting the dugout, and in a few minutes Morgan will take the elevator up to the press box and prepare to teach baseball to America; America, if it's smart, will hit the mute button. "They stole bases. They hit and ran. They bunted." He is talking about the 2002 world-champion Anaheim Angels, but what he's really talking about is the book Moneyball (a book Joe Morgan hasn't read) and why it's bullshit (which is why he'll never read it). I try to point out the contradiction. "I think you should --" Morgan cuts me off. "No, I shouldn't read the book. 'Cause I don't care about the book." Moneyball is Berkeley author Michael Lewis' "story of an idea," which profiled the Oakland A's under General Manager Billy Beane and their objective, statistics-based approach -- what's known as sabermetrics, after the acronym for the Society for American Baseball Research -- to building a team. The book was a best-seller, a phenomenon in the culture at large -- an investment strategist for Credit Suisse First Boston devoted an entire report to Moneyball; a guy running a hot dog stand found lessons within its pages as well; and now Hollywood wants to turn it into a movie -- which makes it all the more mystifying that it's still so wildly misunderstood. At bottom, Moneyball is a simple story about a business (in this case, a professional baseball franchise) pouncing on gross inefficiencies in a market (in this case, a long-standing failure of baseball to accurately value its most basic commodity -- the skills of a professional baseball player). The A's payroll regularly ranks near the bottom of the league -- the Yankees pay more in revenue sharing and luxury taxes than Oakland does in player salaries -- and yet, since 2000, the A's have won at least 90 games every season. What they did, initially under General Manager Sandy Alderson and later under Beane, was nothing short of revolutionary in the staid world of professional baseball, that ever-churning bullshit factory in which, Lewis has written, "there really is no level of incompetence that won't be tolerated." The A's approached the game like a science. Their front office was given over to Harvard grads at home in the cells of a spreadsheet, and soon Oakland could put a dollar value on virtually everything -- foot speed ("almost always overpriced," Lewis writes), batting average (not "usually worth what it cost"), on-base percentage ("usually worth a great deal more"). In simple terms, the A's exalted above all else the out, whose value in any given situation can be readily determined (with none on and none out, for instance, it's worth about a fourth of a run). They placed a premium on players who don't make outs (i.e., players who walk a lot and don't gamble on the base paths) and adopted a style of play to match (they rarely sacrifice, hardly ever hit-and-run, and almost never attempt to steal bases, a risk with little reward). These ideas have been around for years, of course; never has a game been so dissected, analyzed, and ultimately revolutionized by its hobbyists. If there's a spiritual father to the sabermetrics movement, it's Bill James, who 30 years ago, as a boiler-room attendant in Lawrence, Kan., began debunking what he called "baseball's Kilimanjaro of repeated legend and legerdemain." By the time Billy Beane was settling into his office with the A's, James was already a legend in his own right, at least to a small but growing community of like-minded people. Oakland, however, represented the stathead revolution's first step into a live clubhouse; the numbers people, at last, had their petri dish. This was not greeted warmly, at least not everywhere. It was apostasy, after all. It was not How The Game Should Be Played. Even now, all baseball people seem to want to talk about is the supposedly heretical fact that the A's don't steal bases and don't bunt. As a concept, Moneyball was simplified to such a degree that it's now commonly, and wrongly, understood as a playing style in which nine fat men do little but walk, rather than a kind of arbitrage (one of Beane's pet analogies and an apt one, since what sets the A's apart is not necessarily a superior philosophy, but an ability to isolate and capitalize on price discrepancies and inefficiencies). "The book was beautifully understood outside baseball, and by many baseball owners," Lewis says in an e-mail. But in some quarters, he writes, there's still "the inability, or refusal, to grasp the [book's] most basic point -- that it is about using statistical analysis to shift the odds [of winning] a bit in one's favor, not to achieve perfect certainty, which is impossible." In the two years since its publication, Moneyball has become a wedge in the baseball world, or at least the world that observes the baseball world. You're either a Moneyball guy or you're not. Morgan, in his capacity as an ESPN analyst and ambassador to The Game, and despite career statistics that should put him squarely in the Moneyball bloc, is not. In fact, owing to his large forum, he has come to be regarded as something of a high priest within the anti-Moneyball camp, which seems to be preening a little these days. Even as front offices scramble to hire just about anyone who can run a statistical regression, at least two books, one by Cardinals manager Tony La Russa, have been written more or less as responses to Moneyball, and, until recently, the A's have scuffled well south of .500. In an afterword to the paperback edition of the book, Lewis writes that baseball is not so much a business as it is a social club, one that recoiled at a member, Billy Beane, violating its cherished omertà and revealing its inner workings. "The Club," Lewis writes, "includes not only the people who manage the team but also, in a kind of Women's Auxiliary, many of the writers and the commentators who follow it, and purport to explain it." Morgan, he says, is "the closest thing to Club Social Chairman," and when he talked about the book, "the tone of the discourse went from weird to stark raving mad." The examples are legion. In an ESPN.com chat, Morgan was asked what he thought of Moneyball. He confessed he had only read an excerpt in the New York Times Magazine, then went on to write: "It's typical if you write a book, you want to be the hero. That is apparently what Beane has done. According to what I read in the Times, Beane is smarter than anyone else. I don't think it will make him popular with the other GMs or the other people in baseball." Beane, just to clarify, did not write Moneyball, any more than Joe Morgan has read it. Later, in another chat, Morgan was asked what he would do with the A's if he were Billy Beane. "I wouldn't be Billy Beane first of all!!" Morgan replied. "I wouldn't write the book Moneyball!" (His authorial confusions are still fodder for baseball blogs across the Web, perhaps because they may very well be the quintessential Morganisms: indignant, self-righteous, and hopelessly ignorant.) Even today, whether in a chat or an interview or during a broadcast, Morgan never misses an opportunity to slag Moneyball (a book Joe Morgan hasn't read) and, by extension, the A's, who haven't made it out of the first round of the playoffs since 1992. "If I'd had Zito, Mulder, and Hudson," he says to me, referring to the A's recently disbanded trio of pitchers, "there's no way I wouldn't have gotten to the World Series. That's what I'm telling you." And in a recent chat, he mused: "That Moneyball theory is overrated. No one has ever won with it. PLAYERS win games. Not theories." When it was suggested that the world-champion Boston Red Sox were a Moneyball team -- after all, they had Bill James in their employ -- Morgan snapped back (and you could almost hear his furious jabs at the keyboard): "The Red Sox had the second highest payroll in baseball next to the Yankees!!! The most important play last year was Dave Roberts stealing second base in game four ... that is NOT the Moneyball theory. Without the stolen base or just the THREAT of the stolen base Dave Roberts provided, the Red Sox would have been eliminated." Lewis merely shrugs. He told an interviewer recently: "As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Joe Morgan can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy. Short of that kind of thing, there is no level of stupidity that he could express on ESPN that would get him canned, because he's Joe Morgan. What are you going to do about it?" Morgan has bloviated to the point that Jon Miller suggests his broadcast partner would be better off avoiding Moneyball altogether. "My advice to Joe is to not even talk about the book at all," he says. "That's why they nailed him in the book, hoping he would talk about it. That's part of what got some buzz going. What Joe's saying is he's not gonna even read the book and say he read the book, which in effect is like endorsing the book. But they created a scenario where one way or the other they got good pub out of it. ... Whatever they did, it worked. The guy sold a lot of books, right?" Yet Morgan persists, which is why I have come to SBC Park on this clear and warm Sunday in May: I want to understand Joe Morgan's crusade against a book he hasn't read. I want to know why his voice leaps into a plaintive cry at the mere mention of Moneyball. I want to understand his beef with statistics, numbers, computers; and I want to know how history's ultimate Moneyball player became the world's biggest Moneyball critic. This, in sum, is why I'm here: I want to learn at the knee of the greatest second baseman who ever lived, because surely the greatest second baseman who ever lived can't be as wrong, as belligerently wrong, as he seems on TV, which is about as wrong as the Earth is round. Can he? Socratic exchange with Joe Morgan No. 2, on the subject of the stolen base and risk: Joe: The computer says if you get thrown out stealing a base, that's a bad out. But if a guy hits a ground ball into a double play, it's not a bad out. Me: No, I never said that. Joe: Oh, yes, you did. You're saying he should've stayed at first base. Me: Oh, no. I'm saying there's a risk -- Joe: I'm just telling you, if you don't take a risk, you're not gonna get a reward. If you sit there and wait every time with a runner at first base, eventually, there's gonna be some ground-ball double plays -- but that's OK. You say you'd rather have a guy hit into a double play than have a guy thrown out. Me: No! Joe: But that's what you're saying. Me: You're caricaturing that point of view. ... You're turning it into this ridiculous caricature where it looks like a bunch of geeks at their computers. Joe: Well, that's what it is. Me: You think so? Joe: That's what I think it is. Anytime you're trying to make statistics tell you who's gonna win the game, that's a bunch of geeks trying to play video games. He was "a good little player," scouts would tell him on the few occasions they would actually talk to him, surely unaware their brushoff -- one imagines this accompanied by a pat on the head -- would become a chapter title in a baseball great's memoirs. Born in Texas, raised in Oakland, the kid was always an afterthought when scouts came to town. "I was a star," he writes. "I played second, short, hit for average and power, stole bases, but I might as well have been playing in Little League." Even later, he never looked the part of a star. Small and slight, he had a funny tic at the plate, a timing mechanism wherein he would waggle his back arm in what people always described as a chicken flap, but which looked a lot more like palsy. But Joe Morgan was smart. It says so on his Hall of Fame plaque: "A fierce competitor renowned for his baseball smarts, Joe Morgan could single-handedly beat opposing teams with his multifaceted skills." Bill James, in the most recent edition of his Historical Baseball Abstract, rates Morgan not only the best second baseman in baseball history but also the best "percentage player," which is a rough measurement of baseball IQ. He fielded his position well above the norm; he drew walks (1,865 over a 22-year career with Houston, Cincinnati, San Francisco, Philadelphia, and Oakland) and rarely struck out (just 1,015, or about one every nine at-bats); he stole bases (689) and rarely got caught (162). He was so smart, his manager in Cincinnati, Sparky Anderson, never bothered giving him steal signs; Morgan was trusted to decide on his own. (If there were more base stealers like him today, with a success rate like Morgan's, the A's might not be so inert on the base paths.) He won two MVP awards, should've won three, and would've been a good choice for six, according to one writer for the Web site Hardball Times, who described Morgan as "the perfect second baseman" and "one of the most underrated and unappreciated players in baseball history." "He was the perfect Billy Beane player," says ESPN.com writer Rob Neyer, a Bill James acolyte and co-author of The Neyer/James Guide to Pitchers. In fact, Morgan's career has gotten nothing if not a boost from the statistics crowd, which makes his crusade even more puzzling. "A lot of people, myself included, think Joe Morgan was the greatest second baseman of all time," Neyer says. "I don't think, 25 to 30 years ago, anybody would've bought into that. I don't know if people talked about him like that during his career. I suspect that if you had done a poll of the nation's sportswriters 25 years ago, you would've seen a lot of names like Rogers Hornsby, Nap Lajoie, Frankie Frisch. But if you did one now, Joe Morgan would pop up a lot, in part because we have a greater respect for the things he did so well." Jon Miller remembers telling his broadcast partner about Bill James' second baseman rankings, that in fact James had rated him at the top. Says Miller: "Joe said, 'Well, how could that be? [Hornsby] hit .400 and 42 home runs, and I'm hitting .325 and 27 homers.' ... What was interesting to me was, most guys, I think, number one, would already have been aware of that and would've savored that assessment. And number two, that even if they were just being told for the first time, most guys would be happy to embrace that. But Joe has such a sincere respect for the history of the game -- because who is Rogers Hornsby? I mean, Rogers Hornsby is an old redneck alcoholic who was probably as racist as anybody who's ever played the game. And yet Joe had this great respect for what he'd done and was very aware of what he'd done -- not many former players are aware of those kinds of things -- and Joe was sincerely ready to argue on behalf of Hornsby." Morgan began his television career in 1985, calling Reds games for Cincinnati's WLWT, and in 1990 he teamed with Miller for ESPN's Sunday Night Baseball. (If, as the academics on a busman's holiday have it, baseball is America's great civil religion, then ESPN's Sunday Night Baseball is Mass. It's certainly every bit as pompous.) The two would make a great comic pairing -- Morgan, small, black, and prickly; Miller, round, white, and gregarious -- if they didn't take themselves so seriously. Watch them the next time they call a 7-3 Mets win over the Nationals (because it seems they only call 7-3 Mets-Nats games); they'll talk like raconteurs in front of Ken Burns' camera. Like it or not, they are the voice of a baseball fan's Sunday, which isn't entirely inappropriate. When Morgan talks, there is the familiar keening, the steady note of harangue, the complete absence of humor, the smug conviction devolving frequently into unreason and illogic, and we're not even out of the first inning. In his Historical Baseball Abstract, Bill James, after praising Morgan the player, goes on to describe Morgan the broadcaster as "a self-important little prig," a "twit," and a "weenie," just about hitting for the cycle. (When asked about Morgan for this article, James demurs, writing in an e-mail: "We in sabermetrics do best when we can keep the discussion focused on questions like 'What is true?' and 'What is the logical position here?' and 'What is the evidence on that issue?' We don't do so well when we drift into debates about personality and character, since those discussions focus, in the end, [on] who is cool. I respect Joe's greatness as a player, and, as for Joe as a broadcaster, I've said as much as I'm going to say.") To be fair, Morgan can be very good when he's breaking down the minutiae of the game, but these days that seems to interest him less and less, and, anyway, must the world be subjected to another disquisition on the difference between a guy who steals bases and a base stealer? "I think he's a good broadcaster," Neyer says. "He knows a lot about a lot of stuff. If I wanted to have somebody come in and teach how to hit, turn a double play, steal a base, he'd be the guy. But stats analysis is not what he does well. He certainly has a blind spot." A small community has developed around that blind spot. Not long ago, a man named Mike Carminati found himself reading Joe Morgan's ESPN.com chats and routinely deconstructing them in e-mails with a friend. When he started a blog in 2002, Carminati moved the chat recaps online, and so began Joe Morgan Chat Day, in which Joe would be compared to some of the world's great thinkers. The site, while not the first to titter at Joe's many fallacies, at least epitomizes much of the Morgan-bashing: bemused, mordant, and, above all, a little disappointed. Joe, these people seem to be saying, many of them the geeks playing video games, should be one of the good guys. Joe Morgan: Judas of the nerds. The blog Athletics Nation now offers a T-shirt that reads "Joe Morgan can kiss my bunt!" "When he started broadcasting," Carminati says, "there were things he'd say that were completely counter to the way he played the game. It was the way he'd combine certain ideas. He'll make a reasonable statement, then combine it with a totally outlandish statement that makes no sense whatsoever." How do you think we got Enron? "His logic takes this leap. It's kind of ingenious in its own way." (Surprisingly, Carminati enjoys the ESPN Sunday Night Baseball broadcasts. "You have to be in the right frame of mind," he says. "It's like watching Reefer Madness.") Many have tried to explain Morgan's attack on statistics -- that it's a reaction against his famously numbers-obsessed teammate with the Reds, Pete Rose; that it's barely suppressed anger toward the A's, a team he once tried, and failed, to buy as part of an ownership group; that it's just a corollary of what Carminati calls "things were better in my day"-ism. "That's why small-ball will always beat Moneyball for Joe," Carminati says, referencing a style that emphasizes bunts, stolen bases, hit-and-runs, all things that Moneyball suggests are statistically self-defeating. Carminati channels Morgan: "These whippersnappers have it too easy today with the plentiful homers and theme music playing before every at-bat." There also may be an element of fear, or at least a feeling on Morgan's part that something like Moneyball is a threat -- that the nerds are at the gate. Tradition, says Will Carroll, who writes for Baseball Prospectus, has "this amazing death grip" on baseball. "One of the most interesting things about Moneyball was that we saw it as, 'Wow, this is an interesting story that tells interesting things, that takes a look at baseball differently.' But so many baseball people said, 'Holy crap, this is gonna cost me my job.'" ESPN's Miller rightly points out that Moneyball depicted a polarized baseball world, with Harvard grads on one side with their laptops and spreadsheets and old scouts on the other with their Skoal and their gut feelings -- an exaggeration, some say, but clearly not far off the mark. "I think [Morgan] is irritated that he got put into a group of old baseball people who were ignorant and stuck in old ways and uneducated and whatever," Miller says. There's a good reason for that characterization, though. On the field, Morgan may have been the Moneyball ideal; he may have even been the smartest player of all time. But on the air, or at his keyboard, he has shown an unwavering ignorance of statistics and their application, and, more damningly, a complete lack of curiosity about the revolution for which his career is a sort of standard. "I've read excerpts of things from Bill James," Morgan says. "I've read excerpts of Moneyball. But I don't read either one of those books, because I don't think statistics are what The Game is about, and so I'm never gonna agree with it, and I don't care -- I'm not saying it's wrong. You can look at it that way. I don't look at The Game that way. "I played The Game," he says. "You're reading it from a book. I played. I watched. I see everything. I know what happens out there. ... My baseball knowledge is accumulated over 20 years of playing, 20 years of watching The Game, so that's what I care about. I can't care if next week somebody comes up with a new way to evaluate The Game. Am I supposed to say, 'Aw, that's good. I'll go that way now'?" It's not just the "new ways" that confound Morgan. He has never been very good with numbers. One egregious example will suffice: He once wrote that a hitter's value is best measured by runs scored and runs batted in (statistics entirely dependent on the performance of the player's teammates and therefore mostly worthless as an individual metric), and a pitcher's by wins and losses (similarly dependent, similarly worthless). "Run production is how you measure hitters," he wrote with the patness of Scripture. "Wins and losses are how you measure pitchers. Batting averages and ERAs are personal stats." This bit was published in a book Morgan co-wrote. Its title: Baseball for Dummies. Could Joe Morgan be the joke? Socratic exchange with Joe Morgan No. 3, on the subject of on-base percentage and whether I'm saying the A's "invented" it: Me: No, I'm not. Joe: Yes, you are. Our conversation has continued into the bowels of SBC Park -- an appropriate place, after all -- pulling pretty much anyone in the vicinity into its vortex. "He's a Moneyball guy," Joe informs the elevator as we ride up to the press box. "He wants to know why I don't like it." Alas, I realize, Morgan will never get it. The only comfort is that this sort of argument will be a relic within a matter of years. Morgan is in the middle of a paradigm shift in baseball, and he doesn't know it. It's how baseball evolves. Every decade has its great debates and controversies, and they all play out in roughly the same fashion. There's much fretting about the state of the game; there's a book or two; there's an ESPN Outside the Lines special; and at some point, inevitably, George Will is summoned from whatever coffin he happens to be inhabiting and deposited in front of a TV camera. But baseball marches on. "This is not something anybody's going to turn around," ESPN.com's Neyer says. "I was just talking to a friend yesterday, and we compared it to the fight over teaching evolution or intelligent design or creationism. We'll always have rear-guard actions, but if something is undeniable, eventually it's going to take over. That's going to happen with sabermetrics." "And all I'm telling you," Morgan says to me as we approach the broadcast booth, sounding very much like an assembly worker arguing against his own obsolescence, "is that a computer can't tell you what I know about The Game." It's inevitable: One day, The Game will welcome the nerds; they will use stats like VORP and WARP and BABIP on SportsCenter; there will be new metrics that are as pretty and precisely turned as a 6-4-3 double play, and they will be cheered in similar fashion; Bobby Grich will be in the Hall of Fame; Joe Morgan will be institutionalized, and his roommate will be Tim McCarver (and McCarver's partner, Joe Buck, will simply be neutered); baseball's furious mythmaking will continue apace, but this time they'll be telling half-truths and exaggerations about Bill James' eureka moments in a Stokely-Van Camp pork-and-beans plant. Until then, the nerds will watch Sunday Night Baseball with a finger hovering just above the mute button. They will read Joe Morgan's chats with disgust, then chuckle at him on blogs and in chat rooms and over games of Stratomatic Baseball. And I'll remember Joe as I see him now, just an hour before the game, tucked into a chair in a booth high above the field, a barber's smock around his neck. Next to him is the inane patter of a former ballplayer carrying on what seems like a radio interview. "You know," Joe begins to say, as a makeup brush is dabbed along his forehead, "why don't you read the --" He catches himself. I'm pretty sure he's going to plug Tony La Russa's book. But Morgan, noticing the interview nearby, just closes his mouth and his eyes and submits to the makeup brush, and for the next few minutes, in this corner of the room, there's a strange and blessed sound: silence.

metirish Oct 04 2006 02:13 PM

Great article edgy,thanks for posting....I love this bit. ] Lewis merely shrugs. He told an interviewer recently: "As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Joe Morgan can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy. Short of that kind of thing, there is no level of stupidity that he could express on ESPN that would get him canned, because he's Joe Morgan. What are you going to do about it?"

Zvon Oct 04 2006 08:13 PM

Rain delay here for game 2, tho i dont see any rain yet. They must be expecting a BAD storm cuz I just saw the ground crew actually nailing down the tarp around the plate.

metirish Oct 04 2006 08:15 PM

That must be the storm that Cooby had today...she warned us that it might get to us.

cooby Oct 04 2006 08:18 PM

It was really something, very heavy rain and very very dark. But it wasn't very long Four verys, a new record for one statement

metirish Oct 04 2006 08:54 PM

ESPN is saying that there might be an opening to start the game at 9:30.

metirish Oct 04 2006 09:56 PM

Game cancelled,will be played tomorrow at 1:09

dinosaur jesus Oct 04 2006 09:56 PM

Game canceled. The Jeter ball-licking on ESPN went on for a solid 90 minutes. I'm sorry for all of you who get that stuff every day in NYC.

metirish Oct 04 2006 09:57 PM

] The Jeter ball-licking on ESPN went on for a solid 90 minutes. I'm sorry for all of you who get that stuff every day in NYC. It really was terrible.

Centerfield Oct 04 2006 09:58 PM

Jeter should have very clean testicles for tomorrow's game.

KC Oct 04 2006 10:19 PM

It barely freakin' rained, the Mets played a whole playoff game in the same conditions in 2000. I want a complete investigation into the motives for the tarp not being taken off at least once tonight.

SteveJRogers Oct 04 2006 10:24 PM

KC wrote: It barely freakin' rained, the Mets played a whole playoff game in the same conditions in 2000. I want a complete investigation into the motives for the tarp not being taken off at least once tonight. Tell me about it! And don't tell me its because of the Wednesday "kids got school/adults got work" excuse because regular season thats an all nighter This was all ESPN and company getting worried about a second storm coming and they didn't want to stay untill 1-2 in the morning

Frayed Knot Oct 04 2006 10:28 PM

="dinosaur jesus"]The Jeter ball-licking on ESPN went on for a solid 90 minutes. I'm sorry for all of you who get that stuff every day in NYC. One of the espn morning shows was debating the question as to who was better in their sport: Jeter or Jordan? This is the kind of thing that drives me nuts. I mean I almost hate to keep harping on this since it makes it seems like I'm saying Jeter's a lousy player which he certainly isn't. But Jordan was an ALL-TIME great in his sport; either the best ever or at least in the photo-finish depending on your POV. Meanwhile, Jeter is like, I dunno ... real good ... maybe even one of the top dozen or so of this past decade? I mean what's next; a debate on whether Tiger can reach the status of being the Derek Jeter of golf?

SteveJRogers Oct 04 2006 10:33 PM

I know! They were using the old "Who had the better career" argument that gives you Russell/Chamberlain, Montana/Marino, ect Difference is, those are Icon vs Icon debates Jeter is an Icon in NY, but outside he's just a damn good ballplayer

Zvon Oct 04 2006 10:33 PM

KC wrote: It barely freakin' rained, the Mets played a whole playoff game in the same conditions in 2000. I want a complete investigation into the motives for the tarp not being taken off at least once tonight. I agree. And while your at it I wanna know why the Skanks get the prime time game two nights in a row. Im betting the answers will be the same. (Tho postponing the game to an afternoon game tomorrow dont exactly play into my nefarious suspicions.)

ScarletKnight41 Oct 04 2006 10:39 PM

In all fairness, we drove through some pretty horrible rain on our way home from Shea tonight. If that was heading towards the Bronx, I can understand why they cancelled the game.

metirish Oct 04 2006 10:41 PM

The Tigers are asking MLB why Verlander was out warming up but Moose was no where to be seen......

Willets Point Oct 04 2006 10:42 PM

Does this mean that the Mets/Dodgers get bumped from the hallowed prime time slot reserved for all Yankees postseason games?

SteveJRogers Oct 04 2006 10:44 PM

Willets Point wrote: Does this mean that the Mets/Dodgers get bumped from the hallowed prime time slot reserved for all Yankees postseason games? No, Yanks at 1ish. Get-a-way day style baseball!

Frayed Knot Oct 04 2006 10:46 PM

Nope! Thurs Sked: Yanx - Tiggers 1:00 Pads - Cards 4:00 Mets - Dodgers 8:00

Elster88 Oct 04 2006 10:49 PM

Willets Point wrote: Does this mean that the Mets/Dodgers get bumped from the hallowed prime time slot reserved for all Yankees postseason games? I'm sure they would've if not for the game scheduled for Friday in Detroit.

Willets Point Oct 04 2006 10:59 PM

I was being sarcastic, but thanks to all 3 of you.

Elster88 Oct 04 2006 11:00 PM

Willets Point wrote: I was being sarcastic, but thanks to all 3 of you. Ya see? I told you it was hard to read sarcasm.

cleonjones11 Oct 05 2006 12:17 AM

Althought this cancellation came from above the organization...The Yankees often rain out games on get away days...Remember 1 p.m Tampa Bay 2 years ago postpond 10 am sunny at game time. Shows how much they love their fans. How about all the girlfriendS and kids who sat through this...Those secretaries will be tossing the Pink yankee caps in the trash.

Zvon Oct 05 2006 12:25 AM

There he is nym83 ^ If they changed the Met game time tomorrow night and gave the Skanks the prime time slot I would have gone postal. Ballistically postal.

Nymr83 Oct 05 2006 12:49 AM

Jeter vs. Jordan is a conversation that should be laughed off the air. Jeter isn't even worth mentioning in a discussion of all-time baseball greats. That same discussion in basketball starts with Jordan. Jordan, in my opinion, is on a level that maybe only Babe Ruth has ever reached. as for postponing the game i feel they made the right call. sure the fans were pissed that they had to sit there all night but the last thing any real baseball fan wants to see is mussina and verlander waste themselves in 3 innings tonight and see two clowns (lidle and ??) go at it tommorow. Don't start a playoff game that you arent >50% likely to finish IMO.

metirish Oct 05 2006 12:54 AM

Jeter Vs Jordan..yeah Joe Jordan was a very decent player for Manchester United and Scotland in the 70's and 80's...more than decent in fact,one of the best to play in his time....ESPN should be ashamed.

Edgy DC Oct 05 2006 08:08 AM

We're judging Jeter vs. Jordan based on their baseball careers, right?

Edgy DC Oct 05 2006 10:23 AM

By the way, if this rainout helps the Yankees stretch their thin pitching staff one inch extra, I'm beating up a cloud.

MFS62 Oct 05 2006 10:28 AM

metirish wrote: Jeter Vs Jordan..yeah Joe Jordan was a very decent player for Manchester United and Scotland in the 70's and 80's...more than decent in fact,one of the best to play in his time....ESPN should be ashamed. irish, that had just the perfect touch of sarcasm. We baseballcentric Americans deserved that. LOL! Later

Edgy DC Oct 05 2006 10:29 AM

And, while this is becoming my personal thread, I thought I'd throw up some billboard material: Steinbrenner fuming about postponement By Sean Brennan New York Daily News (MCT) NEW YORK - As thousands of disgruntled fans filed out of Yankee Stadium following the postponement of Game 2 of the division series on Wednesday night, there may not have been anyone more agitated at the evening's events than George Steinbrenner. In an impromptu session with a small group of writers near his car, Steinbrenner unleashed his trademark rage on the league while also taking time to take a shot at the Bombers' crosstown rivals before calling it a night. After Major League Baseball waited until almost 10 p.m. to call Wednesday night's contest - first pitch was scheduled for 8:09 p.m. - Steinbrenner fired a high hard one at the commissioner's office for failing to either start the game before the rain came or to postpone it much earlier in the evening. "I didn't like it," Steinbrenner fumed. "I think we should have played (or) we should have made up our minds earlier (to call it). One of the two." When asked if the blame lay squarely with MLB, a steamed Steinbrenner barked, "Yeah, sure." The Boss seemed to calm down after that, and when asked if he was glad to see former Yankee Willie Randolph pick up the first postseason win of his managerial career, Steinbrenner said, "Sure." But that was the end of the niceties, as far as the Mets were concerned. When pressed if he was afraid to face the Mets in a possible Subway Series this season, The Boss resorted to vintage form. "Not the way they played today, I'm not," he said.

cooby Oct 05 2006 10:32 AM

"Not the way they played today"? What could he fault?

Gwreck Oct 05 2006 10:34 AM

I view George Steinbrenner the same way I think of Britney Spears, or rubbernecking delays on the highway. If people stopped watching, they'd go away. Unfortunately, people aren't smart enough to do that.

Edgy DC Oct 05 2006 10:34 AM

I don't know, considering he's going to try to acquire about 10 of them before their careers are over.

MFS62 Oct 05 2006 10:34 AM

Edgy, just so you shouldn't feel alone: (Lost the link) ]BOSS NOT IMPRESSED BY METS By DAN MARTIN October 5, 2006 -- An ornery George Steinbrenner stormed out of Yankee Stadium shortly after the Yankees game against the Tigers was postponed last night and promptly knocked the league and his team's crosstown rivals. Steinbrenner was asked if he was happy the Mets won their game yesterday afternoon to take a 1-0 lead in the NLDS over the Dodgers and responded, "Sure." When a reporter followed up by asking if he was "scared" of the NL East champs, he fired back, "Not with the way they played today, I'm not," before climbing into his awaiting town car. Steinbrenner was referring to the Mets' 6-5 win over Los Angeles that featured a strange play that saw two Dodgers thrown out at the plate, one after another, and a shaky performance by closer Billy Wagner. Steinbrenner saved some of his displeasure for the league, saying that the game, which was called shortly after 10 p.m. after the rain had stopped, could have been played last night instead of this afternoon. "I didn't like it," Steinbrenner said of the rainout that pushed Game 2 of the ALDS against the Tigers to this afternoon, with Game 3 scheduled for tomorrow in Detroit. "We should have played. Or we should have made up our minds sooner." In the playoffs, such matters are made by Major League Baseball and the umpires, along with discussions with both teams. The issues bothered Steinbrenner, who arrived to the Stadium nearly four hours before the first pitch was scheduled in a significantly better mood, still raving about Derek Jeter and the rest of his team. "He's a good player and a great leader," Steinbrenner said outside of the Yankee offices, regarding Jeter's 5-for-5 showing in Game 1 on Tuesday in an 8-4 win over the Tigers. Jeter tied a postseason record with his five hits and became only the second player, along with Atlanta's Marquis Grissom in 1995, to go 5-for-5. He also extended his record for career hits in the playoffs to 147. Steinbrenner, as he has been throughout the early part of this series, appeared buoyant as his team attempts to get closer to its 27th World Series title. "We're going to do all right," Steinbrenner said. "We've got a good team." Later

Yancy Street Gang Oct 05 2006 10:36 AM

I'm so sorry that the Mets failed to impress that old fool.

Frayed Knot Oct 05 2006 01:10 PM

Edgy DC wrote: By the way, if this rainout helps the Yankees stretch their thin pitching staff one inch extra, I'm beating up a cloud. Eh, it adds an off-day between games 1 & 2 but also takes away the one which would have been between 2 & 3 so that's all a wash. The Yanx do get a reprieve as Torre burned through all of their "important" relievers in Game 1 (btw, any words from Wally Mathews on Torre pulling Wang so quick for apparently no reason?) and they're leary about using Farnsworth on back-to-back days. On the other hand, maybe he'll need them all again today and they'll have no break before tomorrow. Biggest complaints from last night seem to come from fans at the game who apparently weren't kept up to date very well. Many claim they learned about the cancellation via cel-calls from home. Game 2 about to start: Mussina vs Loggins (or maybe it's Verlander) Yanx going w/same lineup

Edgy DC Oct 05 2006 01:16 PM

Frayed Knot wrote: The Yanx do get a reprieve as Torre burned through all of their "important" relievers in Game 1 (btw, any words from Wally Mathews on Torre pulling Wang so quick for apparently no reason?) and they're leary about using Farnsworth on back-to-back days. Yeah, that's the inch. Look out clouds. Eh, screw 'em. It's all about the Mets, anyhow.

Johnny Dickshot Oct 05 2006 01:28 PM

Jeter with an error and a failed sac attempt already.

Edgy DC Oct 05 2006 01:31 PM

Jordanian.

Frayed Knot Oct 05 2006 01:32 PM

The five most dreaded words for Yanqui fans: 'And they're loaded for A-Rod' ... AND HE'S GONE ON THREE PITCHES

metirish Oct 05 2006 01:33 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Oct 05 2006 01:34 PM

That'll soon be forgotten Johnny,Jordan missed a few lay ups in his time too ya know. Edgy beat me to it...

KC Oct 05 2006 01:33 PM

Lol, I logged on just to gloat.

metirish Oct 05 2006 01:36 PM

I wonder what goes through his mind after that , did the "fans" boo the shit outta him?

Gwreck Oct 05 2006 01:38 PM

I'm curious too. Was he booed? I had to keep Joe Morgan muted to maintain sanity.

smg58 Oct 05 2006 01:42 PM

RBI single! Go Tigers!

Edgy DC Oct 05 2006 01:43 PM

They're getting what they deserve. The clowns should've given A-Rod his tent.

cooby Oct 05 2006 01:43 PM

Ooh! I forgot about this!

Willets Point Oct 05 2006 01:45 PM

Tiger, tiger, burning bright In the forests of the night, What immortal hand or eye Could frame thy fearful symmetry? GO TIGERS!!!

Willets Point Oct 05 2006 01:53 PM

Verlander, if you don't protect this lead, I will no longer be your best friend.

smg58 Oct 05 2006 01:57 PM

Verlander is throwing strikes at a higher percentage than Zito did the other day against the Twins. And yet the Yankees already have five baserunners. So far no damage, though.

cooby Oct 05 2006 01:57 PM

Wait a minute. Am I looking at this gamecast right? They have both batted through the lineup already in the second inning? And it's only 1-0?

smg58 Oct 05 2006 02:02 PM

Yes, that's right. Jeter committed an error in the first, so the Tgers have had three on base. The MFY's have had five, without scoring.

cooby Oct 05 2006 02:02 PM

Ha! Thanks, smg

smg58 Oct 05 2006 02:03 PM

PS Is Giambi hurt that he's not playing first? What kind of statement does it make about Giambi's defense that a guy with a week's experience at 1B is playing there instead of him?

Willets Point Oct 05 2006 02:03 PM

Verlander's my best friend, for now.

soupcan Oct 05 2006 02:05 PM

Where do you find 'number of pitches thrown' on Gamecast? Anyone? EDIT: Never mind, found it.

Gwreck Oct 05 2006 02:06 PM

Roll the mouse over the pitcher's name for the running total. Or look at the bottom of the boxscore, where the total is updated at the end of the half inning. (This is for MLB.com gameday)

cooby Oct 05 2006 02:07 PM

This is the one I'm using, it's over there under the pitchers name... http://www.sportsline.com/mlb/gamecenter/live/MLB_20061005_DET@NYY

Rotblatt Oct 05 2006 02:08 PM

Can anyone tell me why Sean Casey is batting 3rd instead of, say, Ordonez or Guillen? I mean, he's been bad for about 2 years now, right?

smg58 Oct 05 2006 02:14 PM

I'm still trying to figure out why they think Casey's better than Shelton. Or why they don't put Thames higher in the order because he's their muscle.

Rotblatt Oct 05 2006 02:20 PM

smg58 wrote: I'm still trying to figure out why they think Casey's better than Shelton. Or why they don't put Thames higher in the order because he's their muscle. Good point. I'd forgotten about Shelton, but in looking at his numbers, he's pretty darn solid. Strikes out a lot, but gets on base and has some power. Heads and shoulders better than Casey.

Gwreck Oct 05 2006 02:26 PM

Shelton is not on the Tigers postseason roster.

MFS62 Oct 05 2006 02:30 PM

Rotblatt wrote: Can anyone tell me why Sean Casey is batting 3rd instead of, say, Ordonez or Guillen? I was going to say that it is because Casey is a lefty batter. But Guillen is a switch hitter, so that isn't it. Could be because the manager thinks Guillen is better protection in the lineup for Ordonez. (Betcha' you never thought you'd see a Mets fan use those words,eh?) Later

cooby Oct 05 2006 02:30 PM

Aw poop, damon

smg58 Oct 05 2006 02:30 PM

Ack. Damon hits a 3-run HR.

Gwreck Oct 05 2006 02:31 PM

Well that sucked.

sharpie Oct 05 2006 02:31 PM

3-run homer for Damon. I hat the Tigers.

metirish Oct 05 2006 02:33 PM

Damon is on his way to "warrior" status.

soupcan Oct 05 2006 02:34 PM

'zat the same as 'True Yankee'?

Willets Point Oct 05 2006 02:36 PM

Hate.

Willets Point Oct 05 2006 02:41 PM

Marcus "River" Thames on third with no outs. Don't fuck this up Tigers!

Willets Point Oct 05 2006 02:41 PM

Make that 1 out. Inge from Sweden struck out.

Gwreck Oct 05 2006 02:43 PM

At least they got that run in. 3-2.

Willets Point Oct 05 2006 02:46 PM

Placido Flamingo singles and now Casey is at the bat.

metirish Oct 05 2006 02:46 PM

Willets is on fire today....

Willets Point Oct 05 2006 02:47 PM

Rats, Casey pops up. Roid, Roid, and Rod up for the Yankees.

cooby Oct 05 2006 02:48 PM

metirish wrote: Willets is on fire today.... Obviously he prepared some notes in advance

MFS62 Oct 05 2006 02:50 PM

Willets Point wrote: Rats, Casey pops up. Roid, Roid, and Rod up for the Yankees. I think you're onto something. Where do we petition to name the new Yankee Stadium Needle Park? Later

smg58 Oct 05 2006 02:54 PM

Verlander's making A-Rod look silly. He has brutal stuff, but only some of the time today.

smg58 Oct 05 2006 02:58 PM

Kaboom! Carlos Guillen ties it!

Rotblatt Oct 05 2006 02:59 PM

Woo-hoo! Keep those hits comin', Pudge!

Johnny Dickshot Oct 05 2006 02:59 PM

The Carlos Factor is gonna be big this postseason.

dinosaur jesus Oct 05 2006 03:03 PM

According to baseball-reference.com, which already has the stats for this season up, Carlos Guillen created slightly more runs per nine innings this year than MVP-to-be Derek Jeter. But of course Carlos doesn't have all those intangibles.

smg58 Oct 05 2006 03:08 PM

But Jeter doesn't have Guillen's supporting cast... Actually, it should be pretty clear from his numbers that Guillen was the Tigers' best hitter this year, but he's been doing it very quietly. He obviously deserves more attention than he gets.

smg58 Oct 05 2006 03:10 PM

Verlander yanked in the middle of an at-bat. Not sure you ever really want to do that, but something about his last pitch looked wrong and Leyland pulled the plug.

Willets Point Oct 05 2006 03:10 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Oct 05 2006 03:11 PM

Did the Tigers just go to the bullpen to face Robinson freakin' Cano? On edit: I see smg's post and things seem to make more sense. Sucks but makes more sense.

dinosaur jesus Oct 05 2006 03:10 PM

He's also an even worse fielder than Jeter. And he's not good-looking.

Willets Point Oct 05 2006 03:14 PM

DEEEEEEEEEE PEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!

Edgy DC Oct 05 2006 03:17 PM

S. just got back from her computer training. Not pleased.

cooby Oct 05 2006 03:18 PM

No wonder she never works. She's not even trained. Tell her Jeter made an error

Johnny Dickshot Oct 05 2006 03:20 PM

Marcus Thames now 5-7, 4 RS in this series and standing on 3rd with one out.

Edgy DC Oct 05 2006 03:20 PM

cooby wrote: No wonder she never works. She's not even trained. Tell her Jeter made an error That would be ruthlessly pricking her gonfalon bubble.

sharpie Oct 05 2006 03:21 PM

Granderson's the Manderson!

cooby Oct 05 2006 03:21 PM

You'd like to do that though, wouldn't you?

smg58 Oct 05 2006 03:22 PM

At least make sure she knows her team is losing.

Gwreck Oct 05 2006 03:24 PM

sharpie wrote: Granderson's the Manderson! Starting to sound like John Sterling here, dude.

smg58 Oct 05 2006 03:27 PM

So the numbers suggest that Polanco and Casey are the team's two weakest hitters, and they're up 2 and 3. And they leave Granderson on third. At least they got one in.

MFS62 Oct 05 2006 03:32 PM

I know a guy who is a Tigers fan. He says Polanco is their sparkplug - like the year Eckstein had a few years ago - always in the middle of a rally, etc. He contends that the team went into their late season decline when he was on the DL, and the timing seems to support that. Maybe he's still not healthy. Later

Rotblatt Oct 05 2006 03:43 PM

A Zen koan for Yankee fans, courtesy of Rotblatt: If Derek Jeter represents the tying run late in a playoff game and strikes out, is he still Derek Jeter?

Edgy DC Oct 05 2006 03:45 PM

Point Rottblatt.

Frayed Knot Oct 05 2006 03:46 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Oct 05 2006 03:47 PM

I'm convinced that Polanco & Casey hit 2nd & 3rd because they fit "the profile". P.P. is a scrappy 2nd baseman while S.C. is a mid-power 1st baseman w/a decent BA. Never mind that there are actually better hitters for those spots, these two are locked in by the bonds of history.

Edgy DC Oct 05 2006 03:46 PM

Joel Zumaya, by the way, is a real American hero.

OlerudOwned Oct 05 2006 03:49 PM

Edgy DC wrote: Joel Zumaya, by the way, is a real American hero. Smoke 'em inside. That guy can bring it.

Edgy DC Oct 05 2006 03:50 PM

By the way, what the Hell is this doing on my Yahoo page? Get a lower bridge, fist pumper.

Zvon Oct 05 2006 03:52 PM

Great game here.

smg58 Oct 05 2006 04:00 PM

Zu-ma-ya, my Lord, Zu-ma-ya...

Rotblatt Oct 05 2006 04:01 PM

Yowza! A-Rod down on K's for the third time tonight. How badly are they booing him?

Frayed Knot Oct 05 2006 04:03 PM

You'd have to be tempted to stick with Zumaya for the 9th. He's mowing 'em down and "closer" Todd Jones is the polar opposite kind of guy. 28 Ks in 64 IPs for Jones -- very [u:bb84a26998]A[/u:bb84a26998]typical for a closer type.

soupcan Oct 05 2006 04:04 PM

A lot louder than they booed Shef, that's for sure.

Frayed Knot Oct 05 2006 04:05 PM

Only the Yanx can turn a low-scoring affair into a 3+ hour game. Love to have another run here ... or six.

Rotblatt Oct 05 2006 04:06 PM

]You'd have to be tempted to stick with Zumaya for the 9th. He's mowing 'em down and "closer" Todd Jones is the polar opposite kind of guy. 28 Ks in 64 IPs for Jones -- very Atypical for a closer type. I agree. Jones is a competent reliever, but Zumaya's special. This actually works out pretty well for Jones, though--Zumaya got the tough ones out, and Jones will get the 7-8-9 hitters.

cooby Oct 05 2006 04:07 PM

Frayed Knot wrote: Only the Yanx can turn a low-scoring affair into a 3+ hour game. Love to have another run here ... or six. Is this on FOX? They're good at it too

Edgy DC Oct 05 2006 04:07 PM

Hey, Brian Bruney. Stop pitching well with a Yankee hat on your head. It's unseemly.

OlerudOwned Oct 05 2006 04:11 PM

Todd Jones makes me uneasy.

Frayed Knot Oct 05 2006 04:15 PM

7-8-9 in this lineup matters little Matsui ledoff single - Melky PR-ing

smg58 Oct 05 2006 04:16 PM

Great location in that sequence to Posada.

Frayed Knot Oct 05 2006 04:16 PM

Posada looks at stirke 3

Johnny Dickshot Oct 05 2006 04:16 PM

Dumbo Whiffo

Rotblatt Oct 05 2006 04:21 PM

If Damon comes through here, I'll pull my hair out.

Johnny Dickshot Oct 05 2006 04:21 PM

Cano cantdo, flies to left.

Frayed Knot Oct 05 2006 04:22 PM

Canoe strokes a fly to LF

Willets Point Oct 05 2006 04:23 PM

A sick part of me wants Damon to get on just so that Jeter would strike out or something.

Rotblatt Oct 05 2006 04:23 PM

Two strikes on Johnny D, no balls.

Edgy DC Oct 05 2006 04:25 PM

Injury delay? 'Splain.

smg58 Oct 05 2006 04:25 PM

And we're halfway to a really good day.

Rotblatt Oct 05 2006 04:25 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Oct 05 2006 04:26 PM

I say Liza, you say Minnelli! Liza!

Frayed Knot Oct 05 2006 04:26 PM

We need Tom Jones singing a tribute here; Jo-oooow-ooooowl Zu-May-Ah Jo-ooooow-ooooowl Zu-May-Ah

Edgy DC Oct 05 2006 04:26 PM

Hawesome.

Willets Point Oct 05 2006 04:26 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Oct 05 2006 04:30 PM

Risin' up, back on the street Did my time, took my chances Went the distance, now I'm back on my feet Just a man and his will to survive So many times, it happens too fast You change your passion for glory Don't lose your grip on the dreams of the past You must fight just to keep them alive Chorus: It's the eye of the Tigers, it's the cream of the fight Risin' up to the challenge of our rival And the last known survivor stalks his prey in the night And he's watchin' us all in the eye of the Tigers Face to face, out in the heat Hangin' tough, stayin' hungry They stack the odds 'til we take to the street For we kill with the skill to survive chorus Risin' up, straight to the top Have the guts, got the glory Went the distance, now I'm not gonna stop Just a man and his will to survive chorus The eye of the Tigers (repeats out)...

Johnny Dickshot Oct 05 2006 04:27 PM

You're next, Johnson.

Zvon Oct 05 2006 04:28 PM

Edgy DC wrote: Injury delay? 'Splain. JohnnyD fouled one off his knee. Looked painful. He shook it off after afew. Game over---great baseball and this series is tied.

Yancy Street Gang Oct 05 2006 04:28 PM

OlerudOwned Oct 05 2006 04:28 PM

Decrepit left-handed extravaganza tomorrow.

metirish Oct 05 2006 04:28 PM

I snuck off to a patient lounge and watched ther last inning and a half,the Tigers have an interesting contrast in pitchers,Zumaya throws about 150mph and Jones tops out at about 94 but throws strike after strike......

Willets Point Oct 05 2006 04:32 PM

Yancy Street Gang wrote: That's not a tiger.

Zvon Oct 05 2006 04:34 PM

Edgy DC Oct 05 2006 04:34 PM

Willets Point Oct 05 2006 04:35 PM

How in the hell did you find a photo of Cobb smiling?

metirish Oct 05 2006 04:36 PM

It's A-Rods fault...

KC Oct 05 2006 04:36 PM

Logged on to gloat a little ... way to go for Mrs. Willets. Sweet, taking one on the road. I think we should all find dugouts somewhere and have a few cigarettes.

Yancy Street Gang Oct 05 2006 04:39 PM

Willets Point wrote: ="Yancy Street Gang"] That's not a tiger. I think you're mistaking me for a zoologist or something.

Rotblatt Oct 05 2006 04:50 PM

Poor wittle Yankee fans . . . So Jeter went 1-4 with a K, an error, and he stranded 3 runners. Sheffield went 0-4 with 2 K's and stranded 3. Cano went 0-4 and stranded 6 Loudmouth Giambi went 0-3, managing only a walk. And yet, I have the feeling that A-Rod will be the goat, despite doing no worse then the rest of them, having gone 0-4 with 3 K's and stranding 3. Gotta love it when they feed on themselves!

Edgy DC Oct 05 2006 04:51 PM

Cobb smiled, when the Tiggs won.

Zvon Oct 05 2006 04:58 PM

Rotblatt wrote: And yet, I have the feeling that A-Rod will be the goat, despite doing no worse then the rest of them, having gone 0-4 with 3 K's and stranding 3. This is oh so true. Even right after the game I saw a spot where they announced the game score and the only other comment they made was on what A-Rod did. Anymore it just makes me laugh.

KC Oct 05 2006 05:07 PM

Parting note: A smile is a frown turned upside down!

Valadius Oct 05 2006 06:37 PM

An awful sign of things to come for the Tigers however, is that Kenny Fucking Rogers is pitching for them. Yikes.

dinosaur jesus Oct 05 2006 06:52 PM

Yes, but he only sucks in New York. I mean, he's an asshole everywhere, but in the boondocks, he can pitch.

Rotblatt Oct 06 2006 08:10 AM

Wright is going for the Yankees in Game 4. Awesome. Even better: he's facing Jeremy Bonderman, who's pretty darn good. Kenny Rogers, by the way, has a 3.26 ERA & a 1.25 WHIP at home this season, and lefties are hitting just .200 off him. Randy John's got a 5.00 ERA at home and a 5.01 ERA away. Let's go, Tigers!

MFS62 Oct 06 2006 09:44 AM

Rotblatt wrote: Randy Johnson's got a 5.00 ERA at home and a 5.01 ERA away. And Suzyn Waldmann will probably brag about how consistent he was all year. Later

metirish Oct 06 2006 09:59 AM

A-Rod getting the treatment in the papers today.....

Edgy DC Oct 06 2006 10:04 AM

Is Golden Child Robinson Cano and his 6 LoBs getting a pass?

metirish Oct 06 2006 10:17 AM

Not really....from Lupica. ] Then he struck out Jorge Posada looking and got Robinson Cano, who looks lost these days, to fly out to left. Damon flew out to short center. Ballgame. Series even.

Edgy DC Oct 06 2006 10:24 AM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Oct 06 2006 12:30 PM

Good for Loop. The deftest thing that the Yankees did during their championship run was when they let John Wetteland walk after an All-Star year in 1996, because they recognized that his setup man Mariano Rivera had matured into the true shizzle. Even after Wetteland had an excellent year with Texas in 1997, the Yanks never looked back. So Todd Jones, on the other hand, is signed for 2007. Any chance that the Tiggs have the guts to give his job Joel Zumaya anyway. (Full disclosure: I'd never before seen anybody hit 103 on the gun ever. I know that t's just a number, and guns are corrupted by the agendas of their programmers. But hot damn, you know?)

Yancy Street Gang Oct 06 2006 10:32 AM

Edgy DC wrote: The deftest thing that the Yankees did during their championship run was when they let John Wetteland walk after an All-Star year in 1996, because they recognized that his setup man Mariano Rivera had matured into the true shizzle. It would be nice if Heilman can similarly succeed Wagner.

Edgy DC Oct 06 2006 10:35 AM

Maybe, but right now Heilman isn't outpitching hiim. Nor is Wagner at the end of his contract.

Willets Point Oct 06 2006 10:58 AM

My wife wore her Tigers hat to work today and people are accusing her of being a bandwagon jumper. People are stupid.

Edgy DC Oct 06 2006 10:59 AM

They're the worst.

dinosaur jesus Oct 06 2006 11:09 AM

Where did this idea come from that it's a massive upset if the Tigers win a single game? I know the Yankees came on strong while the Tigers faded, they've been here before, they've got the huge payroll and the famous players. But these two teams over the season were only two games apart. The Yankees have much better hitting; the Tigers have much better pitching. This is a good matchup, with an edge to the Yankees, but not an enormous one.

Edgy DC Oct 06 2006 11:12 AM

And now that the Tiggs have grabbed a game at Yankee Stadium (sorry, The Stadium), it's a pick'em.

soupcan Oct 06 2006 11:22 AM

="Edgy DC"]Good for Loop. The deftest thing that the Yankees did during their championship run was when they let John Wetteland walk after an All-Star year in 1996, because they recognized that his setup man Mariano Rivera has matured into the true shizzle. Even after Wetteland had an excellent year with Texas in 1997, the Yanks never looked back. So Todd Jones, on the other hand, is signed for 2007. Any chance that the Tiggs have the guts to give his job Joel Zumaya anyway. (Full disclosure: I'd never before seen anybody hit 103 on the gun ever. I know that t's just a number, and guns are corrupted by the agendas of their programmers. But hot damn, you know?) Today's NYTimes... October 6, 2006 Reliever Revels in Intimidating Hitters, and the Boos By JOE LAPOINTE The phrase “he had blood in his eye” is usually a figurative expression suggesting aggression. For Joel Zumaya yesterday, it was also a statement of fact. Zumaya, a rookie reliever, retired all five Yankees hitters he faced in a 4-3 victory for the Detroit Tigers at Yankee Stadium, striking out Derek Jeter, Jason Giambi and Alex Rodriguez. The Tigers evened their best-of-five American League division series at 1-1. When Zumaya peered in from the mound, his right eye was bright red, half-filled with blood. He blamed allergies for a hard sneeze that broke a blood vessel. Not that he needed to enhance his image. He looks intimidating enough with a short beard on his chin and a tattoo of flames on his left arm. With his other arm, Zumaya delivered pitches that often reached or exceeded 100 miles an hour. He may be the hardest thrower in baseball, and he was facing the Yankees, perhaps baseball’s best lineup. “Every day, when I was little, I dreamed I would face the Yankees in a playoff game,” the 21-year-old Zumaya said. “This is one of the biggest thrills of my life, having people roaring on you.” He jogged in from the bullpen with one out in the seventh inning. “I didn’t want to run too hard because I might have passed out,” he said. “I wanted to get the feeling of the crowd, the boos.” He also got the “Ooooohs!” and “Whooohs!” when the radar gun registered 103 m.p.h. for one of his pitches. The first hitter he faced was Jeter, who struck out on six pitches. The last was a tipped foul at 98 m.p.h. A moment before, Jeter had stepped out of the box to break Zumaya’s rhythm. A moment after, Jeter turned to glance over his shoulder toward the mound. Earlier this season, Zumaya pumped his fist, pounded his glove and celebrated such moments. But hitters took offense, especially Joe Crede of the Chicago White Sox, who stared at him. The Tigers pitching coach, Chuck Hernandez, told Zumaya to cool it. And he tries to, but Zumaya said he noticed Rodriguez looking back at him after he struck him out to end the eighth. “I had a little grin on my face, I’m not going to lie,” Zumaya said, adding that “I struck out two of their big hitters” in that inning and that “I didn’t mean to disrespect anyone.” Zumaya kept saying, “I wasn’t going to back down,” which he said summed up his philosophy. He grew up in Chula Vista, Calif., near the border with Mexico, and played baseball in Tijuana as a teenager. “I grew up in some rough neighborhoods,” he said. “I played down south. You can’t back down. This is what my dad taught me. You’ve got a lot of bullies.” In an interview with The Detroit Free Press on July 2, Zumaya said: “I was a troublemaker. I was a punk. I did a few things I regret.” He added: “We were low-class, didn’t have very much.” Zumaya said the baseball diamonds in Mexico were tougher. “There was no grass; it was all dirt and rocks,” he said. A Mexican flag hangs above his locker at Comerica Park in Detroit. He has a tattoo on his left arm and shoulder that he calls an Aztec mural. After yesterday’s game, Zumaya held a bottle of Corona beer. “The Mexican Champagne,” he said with a smile. He had just talked on the telephone with his family, including his grandmother Tammy. Zumaya said she introduced him to Little League Baseball and took him to his first San Diego Padres game. Now he is facing some of the players he used to watch. “When a guy comes in throwing 100, he’s going to be a difference maker,” Gary Sheffield said Monday. Rodriguez said yesterday that Zumaya “kind of ran through our lineup, throwing the ball 102 miles an hour and dotting the strike zone.” He added, “You tip your cap.” Vance Wilson, the Tigers’ backup catcher, said of Zumaya in late August: “On just strict talent alone, he’s got the best arm I’ve ever caught. It’s a heavy ball.” Wilson said the challenge was to control Zumaya’s emotions. That can be difficult, especially in Detroit, because the fans get excited when Zumaya jogs in to “Voodoo Child” by Jimi Hendrix. He originally asked the Tigers to play an antiwar anthem, “B.Y.O.B.” by System of a Down, but the team would not because the song includes profane language. Zumaya, who went 6-3 with a 1.94 earned run average in the regular season as a setup man for closer Todd Jones, was a starter until this year. The Tigers are grooming him as a closer. He has been compared with Rich Gossage, who used to intimidate batters. Zumaya said last month, “If I was up there hitting against a guy like me, I’d be scared.” After yesterday’s game, his pride and confidence kept taking over. “I do have a pretty decent fastball,” he said. “I faced great veterans. I would love to get respect from them. Hopefully, they can go around and talk about ‘Hey, Zumaya, this and that.’ I want to be intimidating.”

MFS62 Oct 06 2006 12:29 PM

dinosaur jesus wrote: Where did this idea come from that it's a massive upset if the Tigers win a single game? From Mike Francessa. He predicted the Yanks would sweep, and said if the Tigers won even one game, it would be a "massive upset". (His exact words) Of course, Mad Dog is not going to let him live that down. Later

Edgy DC Oct 06 2006 12:31 PM

Disagree. They're survivors and they'll be fine. Loud and fine.

metirish Oct 06 2006 12:38 PM

] From Mike Francessa. He predicted the Yanks would sweep, and said if the Tigers won even one game, it would be a "massive upset". (His exact words) Of course, Mad Dog is not going to let him live that down. Russo of course would simply deny ever saying that.

Centerfield Oct 06 2006 12:49 PM

A-Rod on the back cover today as is protocol after a Yankee loss.

metirish Oct 06 2006 12:54 PM

The Daily News has the Mets on the front and A-Rod on the back,The Post have the Mets front and back,that surprised me

Willets Point Oct 06 2006 12:56 PM

"Tigers Tie It Up As A-Rod Flops". This just cracks me up.

Farmer Ted Oct 06 2006 01:13 PM

I never NEVER look at the MFY section with the on-line NYDN sports. Today, I could not help myself. Even it just one game. There is much joy.

Rotblatt Oct 06 2006 01:15 PM

Not only does Zumaya throw 100 mph, but he's got MOVEMENT on his pitches. LATE movement. That's just insane. I've been pleasantly surprised at how relatively balanced the Yankee critisism has been. I mean, yes, they lambast A-Rod, but they at least mention that the rest of the lineup sucked ass too. One article even singled out Jeter for "not having his magic." Which, for the NY rags, is the equivalent of calling Jeter a faggot choker.

Johnny Dickshot Oct 06 2006 01:39 PM

Michael Kay had decided that Mussina is the real choker. Let the fingerpointing continue.

metirish Oct 06 2006 01:41 PM

Has Moose EVER come up big for them in the postseason?

Johnny Dickshot Oct 06 2006 01:44 PM

The concept of coming up big is, I guess, big, but the concept of not coming up big... let's say, limiting a 95-win team to 4 runs ... is not some kind of awesome failure that assures that one is incapable of big-ness. It's all overblown and unfair, though if it distracts, divides or undermines the MFYs, then I'm cool with it.

metirish Oct 06 2006 01:45 PM

Very true Dickshot, I asked because the last few days I read that Mosse needs to "come up big" for the MFY's,like A-Rod needs too.

metirish Oct 06 2006 03:23 PM

A-Rod against Rogers.... 10 hits in 19 at-bats, with five homers and five walks.

Yancy Street Gang Oct 06 2006 03:26 PM

metirish wrote: A-Rod against Rogers.... 10 hits in 19 at-bats, with five homers and five walks. I bet there's a strikeout or two in there as well. What a loser that K-Rod is!

metirish Oct 06 2006 03:29 PM

Two K's.....

Willets Point Oct 06 2006 03:41 PM

I'd love to see A-Rod go 4 for 4 tomorrow while the rest of his teammates are hitless. It would be especially delicious if Rodriguez got himself to 3d base with no outs and the Yankees fail to score.

Yancy Street Gang Oct 06 2006 03:43 PM

You know, as much as the bashing of Rodriguez is unfair, I can't say it bothers me. There ought to be a price to pay for willingly becoming a Yankee, and I don't mind seeing him pay it.

metirish Oct 06 2006 03:44 PM

A-Rod's baseballreference page is sponsored by Anonymous ..... http://www.baseball-reference.com/r/rodrial01.shtml I like that Willets, A-Rod has a huge night and they still lose..

Willets Point Oct 06 2006 03:47 PM

Just to see the Yankee fans/media twisting in the wind to try to rationalize it would be worth it.

metirish Oct 06 2006 03:50 PM

Yeah no doubt it would like this.... "A-Rod comes up big on the wrong night"

dinosaur jesus Oct 06 2006 03:50 PM

If ARod got four hits and no one else got any, it would just prove how selfish he was. Not a team player.

Edgy DC Oct 06 2006 03:53 PM

How did he not make the All-Star team in 1999? Oh, right, Torre.

SteveJRogers Oct 06 2006 07:12 PM

metirish wrote: Has Moose EVER come up big for them in the postseason? Game 7 ALCS 2003 He was pitching in the "Jeter Flip" game

Valadius Oct 06 2006 07:14 PM

I thought that was the "Aaron Boone" game.

SteveJRogers Oct 06 2006 07:18 PM

Johnny Dickshot wrote: The concept of coming up big is, I guess, big, but the concept of not coming up big... let's say, limiting a 95-win team to 4 runs ... is not some kind of awesome failure that assures that one is incapable of big-ness. It's all overblown and unfair, though if it distracts, divides or undermines the MFYs, then I'm cool with it. At this point I think its more wanting a "Magic Moment" we are beyond a 4 for 5 with 2 HRs and 7 RBIs, especially when "everyone else is hitting" I think we are now at the point where "coming up big" is now re-defined as the moment everyone will remeber rather than being part of an onslaught or doing something on someoneles "undercard" if you will.

Carnac the Metnificent Oct 06 2006 08:01 PM

A: A retirement home for communists and the pitcher's mound at Comerica Park Q: Where are the two best places to look for ancient lefties tonight?

Valadius Oct 06 2006 08:14 PM

Is Derek Jeter on crack? He was looking at his bat, smiling all weird and talking to it.

Johnny Dickshot Oct 06 2006 08:44 PM

Nice Carnac. There's the Bobby Abreu we all know and love, tentatively approaching a catchable fly ball for a single. I'm xcited about the Tigers chances tonight.

Johnny Dickshot Oct 06 2006 08:46 PM

ARod can't even get a call! He's schleprock

Valadius Oct 06 2006 08:48 PM

Day-twah up 1-0.

Valadius Oct 06 2006 08:53 PM

Now up 3-0!!!

Johnny Dickshot Oct 06 2006 08:54 PM

Oh, baby I love it! Granderson picked off first but steals 2nd anyway on a bad Giambi throw, scores on a 2-out single. 3-0 thru 2. This is when I'd like to have a machine and make it the 9th.

Valadius Oct 06 2006 08:57 PM

Ernie Harwell in the booth!

KC Oct 06 2006 09:01 PM

If Cano stuck with the tag instead of eyeballin to the ump he may have caught him the second time as the runner came off the bag. Little things.

Johnny Dickshot Oct 06 2006 09:11 PM

KC wrote: If Cano stuck with the tag instead of eyeballin to the ump he may have caught him the second time as the runner came off the bag. Little things. Same with Arod, nearly, though he fell in the other direction and seemed to me to have had tagged him out. Bad call that was.Too bad for Arod.

MFS62 Oct 06 2006 09:15 PM

Valadius wrote: Ernie Harwell in the booth! I never really listened to him before. I now feel I missed a lot. He is a good listen. You can tell his radio days - he gives score and hitter updates frequently. You couldn't ask for more. And he was right when he asked if Joe Morgan had seen Steve Dalkowski. We should all have his mental faculties at his age. Later

ScarletKnight41 Oct 06 2006 09:19 PM

MK just asked - ]Is it just me, or have the ESPN announcers been bribed by the Yankees?

KC Oct 06 2006 09:21 PM

Nice treat listening to Mr. Harwell.

soupcan Oct 06 2006 09:28 PM

ScarletKnight41 wrote: MK just asked - ]Is it just me, or have the ESPN announcers been bribed by the Yankees? Everybody keeps saying that and I just don't hear it - or see it.

SteveJRogers Oct 06 2006 09:39 PM

Kind of like Vin Scully & Joe Garagiola rooting for the Red Sox in 1986, yet go to Boston and fans said "Ah they were rooting for the METS!"

Johnny Dickshot Oct 06 2006 09:44 PM

Kenny Rogers -- He's Grrrrreat!

SteveJRogers Oct 06 2006 09:45 PM

Gotta know when to hold em!

KC Oct 06 2006 09:46 PM

I agree with soup, especially in tonight's broadcast. Still, it's nice to see that the young man has been properly brainwashed.

Johnny Dickshot Oct 06 2006 09:49 PM

I must have been in one of my baseball-less periods when Rogers perpetrated all these alledged crimes against the True Yankee Way but to hear Fatass and Stupid Ass go off on him on the radio today was enough to make you a fan of him. For the Mets he had a bad inning in releif and was the best pitcher down the stretch for a good team that barely made the playoffs. Since then he's pitched pretty well in a ridiculous park in Texas, had a CY contender year for a surprise playoff team, and been one of the few active players to speak out against steriods. He's OK with me and has been.

soupcan Oct 06 2006 09:52 PM

Johnny Dickshot wrote: He's OK with me and has been. 'Cept when he's busy assaulting people I'd imagine.

dinosaur jesus Oct 06 2006 09:52 PM

Umps blow the call on a ball that lands right on the third base line. Home plate umpire makes up for it by blowing a call on a fat strike three. Ball four, one out, one on.

KC Oct 06 2006 09:56 PM

I recall mocking people who were pissed off we didn't sign Roger after that season on mofo. Sorry, Amblood.

Johnny Dickshot Oct 06 2006 10:03 PM

soupcan wrote: ="Johnny Dickshot"]He's OK with me and has been. 'Cept when he's busy assaulting people I'd imagine. Oooh, forgot about that. Looking up his stats, seems he had one poor outing in the 96 ALDS for the MFYs: 2 IP, 2 ER, but a 108 ERA+ and 12 wins on the year. He had one of his 2 sub-100 ERA+ years of his 18-year career in 97. 200 wins, 110 career ERA+. Good player.

Nymr83 Oct 06 2006 10:08 PM

]For the Mets he had a bad inning in releif and was the best pitcher down the stretch for a good team that barely made the playoffs. Since then he's pitched pretty well in a ridiculous park in Texas, had a CY contender year for a surprise playoff team, and been one of the few active players to speak out against steriods. He's OK with me and has been. if he had given up a single to Andruw Jones then yeah, i'd be over it. but to lose a playoff series by throwing 4 straight balls? sorry, you SUCK. you should lob it over the plate like its batting practice before you walk in the game-ending run

Johnny Dickshot Oct 06 2006 10:09 PM

Let's rally the Tigers to a few more runs here: ]I feel uptight on a Saturday night! Nine o clock, the radios the only light I hear my song and it pulls me through Comes on strong, tells me what I got to do I got to... Get up! Everybodys gonna move their feet Get down! Everybodys gonna leave their seat You gotta lose your mind in Detroit, Rock City Get up! Everybodys gonna move their feet Get down! Everybodys gonna leave their seat Getting late I just cant wait Ten oclock and I know I gotta hit the road First I drink, then I smoke Start up the car, and I try to make the midnight show Get up! Everybodys gonna move their feet Get down! Everybodys gonna leave their seat Movin fast, doin 95 Hit top speed but Im still movin much too slow I feel so good, Im so alive! I hear my song playin on the radio It goes... Get up! Everybodys gonna move their feet Get down! Everybodys gonna leave their seat Twelve oclock, I gotta rock Theres a truck ahead, lights starin at my eyes Oh my god, no time to turn! I got to laugh cause I know Im gonna die Why? Get up! Everybodys gonna move their feet Get down! Everybodys gonna leave their seat

Valadius Oct 06 2006 10:12 PM

The Big Ugly Head gives up a leadoff walk.

Valadius Oct 06 2006 10:13 PM

YES!!!! Retard-butt Jeter screws up!!!!!

Valadius Oct 06 2006 10:14 PM

4-0 Tiggers!!!!!!

Johnny Dickshot Oct 06 2006 10:14 PM

Gotta lose your mind. Ivan rocks!

ScarletKnight41 Oct 06 2006 10:15 PM

Pudge's RBI double makes it a 4-0 Tiggers lead!

Farmer Ted Oct 06 2006 10:15 PM

I love the tiggers.

Valadius Oct 06 2006 10:16 PM

5-0 Tiggers!!!!!!!!

Johnny Dickshot Oct 06 2006 10:16 PM

Casey rocks!

Valadius Oct 06 2006 10:16 PM

The Big Ugly Head is done!!!!

ScarletKnight41 Oct 06 2006 10:16 PM

Randy Johnson leaves the mound in disgrace in the 6th inning.

cooby Oct 06 2006 10:17 PM

Johnny Dickshot wrote: Kenny Rogers -- He's Grrrrreat! I still think he should have been arrested

Johnny Dickshot Oct 06 2006 10:17 PM

First I drink, then I smoke.

cooby Oct 06 2006 10:18 PM

Seems like you don't want the love of this man at all...

dinosaur jesus Oct 06 2006 10:18 PM

This is starting to be fun.

Valadius Oct 06 2006 10:19 PM

[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5cVlbIWq1EA]MWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!![/url]

Johnny Dickshot Oct 06 2006 10:31 PM

Kenny Rogers can go on a cameraman killing spree tonight for all I care. This is the ultimate revenge. (not really, OK? The Yankees are probably all criminals too)

KC Oct 06 2006 10:32 PM

Through 7, Tigers still up 5-sniffle ... it's whack how Kenny is pitching. Detroit Rock City kicks ass, favorite Kiss song.

Johnny Dickshot Oct 06 2006 10:34 PM

Great + Anderson = Granderson.

Valadius Oct 06 2006 10:34 PM

6-0 Tiggers!!!

ScarletKnight41 Oct 06 2006 10:34 PM

6-0 Tiggers on Granderson's home run :)

soupcan Oct 06 2006 10:35 PM

Ka-boom. 6-0 Tiggers. Okay, Kenny can kill a cameraman tonight. Just one though.

SteveJRogers Oct 06 2006 10:35 PM

This, and Cards/Pads CLEARLY debunks the "Team that is hotter at the end of the season generally does better than team that has it wrapped up by early September" line of thinking! Well Mets/Dodgers as well, but the Mets did hit the postseason on a 4 game win streak.

soupcan Oct 06 2006 10:36 PM

Johnny Dickshot wrote: Great + Anderson = Granderson. That's good.

Valadius Oct 06 2006 10:41 PM

What the hell is wrong with the voice-over guy's voice?

Valadius Oct 06 2006 10:42 PM

Oh great, Johnny. THANK YOU for bringing it up.

cooby Oct 06 2006 10:44 PM

Valadius wrote: [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5cVlbIWq1EA]MWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!![/url] Tere's my favorite You Tube...

Johnny Dickshot Oct 06 2006 10:44 PM

Valadius wrote: Oh great, Johnny. THANK YOU for bringing it up. ? Let's just watch Kenny deal.

Farmer Ted Oct 06 2006 10:50 PM

Kenny is close to being somewhat forgiven.

SteveJRogers Oct 06 2006 10:51 PM

Farmer Ted wrote: Kenny is close to being somewhat forgiven. For what, Andruw Jones or the camera incident?

Valadius Oct 06 2006 10:57 PM

He brought up the walk.

KC Oct 06 2006 10:57 PM

Zumaya = 102 mph???

Valadius Oct 06 2006 10:59 PM

Apparently Zumaya blew out a blood vessel in his eye the other night from throwing that fast.

Johnny Dickshot Oct 06 2006 11:00 PM

I don't see why some fans choose to blame that Game 6 loss on Rogers any more than Franco, who blew a lead; Benitez, who blew a lead; or Lieter, who couldn't get out of the first inning AND made a stupid error. And not sure why a bases-loaded walk is any worse a crime than a leadoff double to Gerald Williams, who could have and would have scored on almost any other outcome too. Sure it was a painful, sucky end to a great game but it was, like most wins and losses, a team thing.

Valadius Oct 06 2006 11:01 PM

Joe Morgan is so unabashedly pro-MFY it isn't even funny!

SteveJRogers Oct 06 2006 11:07 PM

Johnny Dickshot wrote: I don't see why some fans choose to blame that Game 6 loss on Rogers any more than Franco, who blew a lead; Benitez, who blew a lead; or Lieter, who couldn't get out of the first inning AND made a stupid error. And not sure why a bases-loaded walk is any worse a crime than a leadoff double to Gerald Williams, who could have and would have scored on almost any other outcome too. Sure it was a painful, sucky end to a great game but it was, like most wins and losses, a team thing. I think its a combination of: -Remembrances of his performance as a MFY and -Just need one guy to blame that was definatly not coming back in 2000 The guy was brought in to do what Mike Hampton did the next year, be "The Guy" and since he wasn't going to be coming back Met fans felt just in blaming the loss on him. I agree, its actually worse than the Buckner blame based on the other pitching culprits during that particular game

Valadius Oct 06 2006 11:10 PM

Let's go Jones!!!

Johnny Dickshot Oct 06 2006 11:12 PM

Well of course he's a scapegoat. But as detailed above his crime as a Yankee was having 1 harmless no-decision (the Yankees won) in the 96 ALDS, followed by an off-year, and still brought back TRue Yankee (R) Scott Brosius in a trade.

Johnny Dickshot Oct 06 2006 11:14 PM

Valadius Oct 06 2006 11:14 PM

Did I just see that right? Someone held up a sign saying "Billy Crystal Sucks".

Johnny Dickshot Oct 06 2006 11:15 PM

Valadius wrote: Did I just see that right? Someone held up a sign saying "Billy Crystal Sucks". That's great.

Valadius Oct 06 2006 11:15 PM

YES!!!!!!!!

KC Oct 06 2006 11:15 PM

Hoo Hah

DocTee Oct 06 2006 11:15 PM

Classic Sign! "Billy Crystal Sucks"

Edgy DC Oct 06 2006 11:15 PM

Nymr83 wrote: ]For the Mets he had a bad inning in releif and was the best pitcher down the stretch for a good team that barely made the playoffs. Since then he's pitched pretty well in a ridiculous park in Texas, had a CY contender year for a surprise playoff team, and been one of the few active players to speak out against steriods. He's OK with me and has been. if he had given up a single to Andruw Jones then yeah, i'd be over it. but to lose a playoff series by throwing 4 straight balls? sorry, you SUCK. you should lob it over the plate like its batting practice before you walk in the game-ending run Well, it was a 3-1 pitch so he did get one strike across. The Mets tied the game in the 15th the night before on a bases-loaded walk to their backup catcher. Rogers pitched two innings the night before. It's hard.

Gwreck Oct 06 2006 11:20 PM

Loved the sign.

smg58 Oct 06 2006 11:22 PM

2 down, one to go, I wonder what all the people who spent the last few weeks saying the Yankees were going to waltz and the Mets were going quietly are thinking now. Tomorrow could be a really, really great day. The "strike" Rogers threw (to Andruw Jones) was a very generous call by the ump, but that walk just felt like abject failure to me at the time. JD makes some perfectly valid points, to be fair, but Rogers will need to implode against the Mets in the Series before I forgive him fully.

Johnny Dickshot Oct 06 2006 11:23 PM

I'm still laughing about the sign. See that Rogers interview? He WAS motivated by revenge. That game was Jack Morris-y.

SteveJRogers Oct 06 2006 11:33 PM

smg58 wrote: 2 down, one to go, I wonder what all the people who spent the last few weeks saying the Yankees were going to waltz and the Mets were going quietly are thinking now. Tomorrow could be a really, really great day. I just like the fact that you'll start hearing more ARod bashing, despite the fact that the ENTIRE Yankee offense did nothing. Come to think of it, I LOVE the fact that this high powered Yankee offense, considered "The Greatest Lineup EVER!" has now scored 3 runs in the last two games! Loved Morgan's BRM defense for the 72 power outage as being "Well, we weren't The Big Red Machine yet." Sure Joe, keep believing that. Jon Matlack is on line 2 BTW to remind you about the next October BTW, I could have sworn Morgan HATES the Yanks because he's forever defending that 70's Reds teams as the Greatest Of All Time

SteveJRogers Oct 06 2006 11:38 PM

OMG! Hearing a MFY fan host on the radio allready calling for Torre's head if they lose tomorrow based on "lethargcy" and wants Sweet Lou or someone to come in an "change the culture" Man, I can only imagine what MFY fans would have said after Mazeroski's HR in 1960!

dinosaur jesus Oct 06 2006 11:57 PM

SteveJRogers wrote: OMG! Hearing a MFY fan host on the radio allready calling for Torre's head if they lose tomorrow based on "lethargcy" and wants Sweet Lou or someone to come in an "change the culture" Man, I can only imagine what MFY fans would have said after Mazeroski's HR in 1960! Well, Casey did get fired after that.

Johnny Dickshot Oct 07 2006 12:07 AM

Weiss too.

SteveJRogers Oct 07 2006 12:17 AM

Johnny Dickshot wrote: Weiss too. True, but both have been viewed as cruel and cold hearted because of the passage of time. If there was an internet, sports radio and other outlets back then, the venom by the fans would probably have caused someone other than Ralph Houk to be manager!

Willets Point Oct 07 2006 01:02 AM

I have a very happy wife tonight.

Yancy Street Gang Oct 07 2006 06:19 AM

Willets Point wrote: I have a very happy wife tonight. Dawg!

Frayed Knot Oct 07 2006 08:44 AM

Wow, just fucking Wow! I LOVE IT when something that "everyone" says can't happen not only happens but does so in spades just barely after the hot air has stopped circulating. The whole Badabingo, Kay, M&MD crew were so freakin' positive that Rogers was sure-fire lock to be leaving the mound by the 3rd inning w/his head hanging and his team already down by 5 runs that a naive listener would think it was barely worth it turning on the game. It's amazing to the extent some believe that a handful of past October games represents an unchangeable destiny and that there's such a disconnect between being a pre-October vs October player. P.S. Yanqui fans I know are convinced that Joe Morgan (as well as McCarver, btw) is a rabid anti-Yankee shill.

Frayed Knot Oct 07 2006 09:14 AM

And then there are those six words have Yanqui fans everywhere running for all the good luck charms they can find in an attempt to revive the seemingly lost 'Aura and Mystique': JARET WRIGHT TO SAVE YOUR SEASON

MFS62 Oct 07 2006 09:17 AM

="Frayed Knot"]And then there are those six words have Yanqui fans everywhere running for all the good luck charms they can find in an attempt to revive the seemingly lost 'Aura and Mystique': JARET WRIGHT TO SAVE YOUR SEASON May the life preserver he throws them be pure concrete. Later

Edgy DC Oct 07 2006 09:31 AM

Well, Jaret Wright hasn't been as booed as some, but criminy, this is why you resist the urge to boo your players when they're struggling. You may need them someday. A 4.49 ERA ain't so bad these days, but I've been corresponding with my Yankee-fan friend Martin, and I get the notion that he would rather start Randy Johnson on zero days Mariano Rivera Ron Guidry Derek Jeter Ed Whitson

KC Oct 07 2006 09:35 AM

I wish I could Tivo my dreams, but I woke up with this song in my head and you, you, and yes you were there with me. Someone get that Har- ley out of the living room my wife will be home soon.

SteveJRogers Oct 07 2006 10:01 AM

Yankee fans must be hearing this song right about now Tom Jones and Bobby Bare I think are the most famous people to have sung this. Last night I went to sleep in detroit city, And I dreamed about those cotton fields at home. I dreamed about my mother, Dear old papa, sister and brother, I dreamed about that girl Whos been waiting for so long. I wanna go home, I wanna go home, Oh, how I wanna go home! Home, folks think Im big in detroit city. From the letters that I write, they think Im fine. But by day, I make the cars, And by night I make the bars, If only they could read between the lines! [spoken] You know, I rode a freight train north to detroit city. After all these years, I find that Ive just been wastin my time. So I just think Ill take my foolish pride, Put on a south bound freight and ride, Goin back to the love ones, The ones I left waitin so far behind. I wanna go home, I wanna go home, Oh, how I want to go home BTW, funny thing about that song, ESPN played the final lines in honor of Jerome Bettis playing in hometown Detroit for his final NFL game. Funny because its a song about LEAVING Detroit for home!

Willets Point Oct 07 2006 12:32 PM

This is clever:

SteveJRogers Oct 07 2006 12:40 PM

You know what, never mind...

A Boy Named Seo Oct 07 2006 03:13 PM

Word on the street ([url=http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/playoffs2006/news/story?id=2616427]ESPN[/url]) is that A-Rod is getting dropped to 8th in the Yankee lineup today. 8th.

Gwreck Oct 07 2006 03:20 PM

Damon CF Capt'n Intagibles SS Abreu RF Mr. Personality 1B Matsui DH Dumbo C Cano 2B Slappy 3B Cabrera LF

Edgy DC Oct 07 2006 04:33 PM

The part of the Sports Illustrated article that came the closest to making me Hulk out was Giambi effectively blaming Rodriguez for making him swing at bad pitches because Rodriguez batting behind him has robbed him of his faith in the walk.

A Boy Named Seo Oct 07 2006 04:34 PM

Three Dodgeball references in one half inning? Easy, fella.

Edgy DC Oct 07 2006 04:41 PM

Jaret Wright hasn't even gone 6 2/3 innings in any start this year.

A Boy Named Seo Oct 07 2006 04:43 PM

Weird to me that Sheffield's in there today instead of Giambi. And I still can't get over A-Rod batting 8th. Nutty.

A Boy Named Seo Oct 07 2006 04:48 PM

Dodgeball Guy: "They sure hit you over the head with the Tiger motif here, don't they?" They are, you know, the Tigers.

Frayed Knot Oct 07 2006 04:52 PM

Giambi's had a bad wrist - which is either the reason or an excuse for the reason why he's sitting. I'm blown away by ARod in the 8hole too. It won't matter much in the grand scheme of the game but will get analyzed to death on the sidelines. NYY fans were clamonring for Melky all morning on the talk shows, somehow believing that he provides some sort of "small-ball" option that Sheff/Giambi/Matsui do not - despite the fact that that trio has outrageously high OBPs and are hardly the definition of 'one-dimensional' offense. MFY fans like to think of themselves as a scrappy, small-ball kind of team and are starting to rebel against the All-Star-at-every-spot kind of team, thinking that IT is the reason they're not winning now. Will be an interesting winter if this blows up on them today.

A Boy Named Seo Oct 07 2006 04:54 PM

Girl Power: 1-0 Tigers on a Magglio bomb to left-center. Jaret Wright is not only struggling with command, he's also having problems hiding his sizable girth under his baggy, grey road uni. Plus the chaw in his mouth makes his chubby cheeks look all the more more rotund. He's a pretty large man.

Nymr83 Oct 07 2006 05:00 PM

Frayed Knot wrote: MFY fans like to think of themselves as a scrappy, small-ball kind of team and are starting to rebel against the All-Star-at-every-spot kind of team, thinking that IT is the reason they're not winning now. Will be an interesting winter if this blows up on them today. that kind of lineup is a gauranteed playoff spot every year. if they dont win you can blame the pitching, taking big hitters out of the lineup for "scrappy" guys will only hurt your win total.

A Boy Named Seo Oct 07 2006 05:00 PM

]I'm blown away by ARod in the 8hole too. It won't matter much in the grand scheme of the game but will get analyzed to death on the sidelines. Especially if he comes up with 2 or 3 hits today and is standing in the on-deck circle or in the hole as a Yankee rally is ended by Cano or Posada. 3-0 now on a Monroe homer, followed by a Marcus Thames single. Wright's getting pounded and his ass is still quite large.

TheOldMole Oct 07 2006 05:01 PM

3 - zip. Gotta love it.

MFS62 Oct 07 2006 05:03 PM

A Boy Named Seo wrote: Weird to me that Sheffield's in there today instead of Giambi. And I still can't get over A-Rod batting 8th. Nutty. Leo Durocher, when he was managing the Cubs, moved a young outfielder named Adolfo Phillips to the number 8 spot in the order. He yold him "you're my second cleanup hitter". Phillips went on to have his best year of his career. Later

SteveJRogers Oct 07 2006 05:05 PM

Frayed Knot wrote: Giambi's had a bad wrist - which is either the reason or an excuse for the reason why he's sitting. I'm blown away by ARod in the 8hole too. It won't matter much in the grand scheme of the game but will get analyzed to death on the sidelines. NYY fans were clamonring for Melky all morning on the talk shows, somehow believing that he provides some sort of "small-ball" option that Sheff/Giambi/Matsui do not - despite the fact that that trio has outrageously high OBPs and are hardly the definition of 'one-dimensional' offense. MFY fans like to think of themselves as a scrappy, small-ball kind of team and are starting to rebel against the All-Star-at-every-spot kind of team, thinking that IT is the reason they're not winning now. Will be an interesting winter if this blows up on them today. Heh! See my point in the Twins-A's thread. Basically the fans are saying they should go back to the "basics" of the 96-00 Yanks, the paitence at the plate, doing "the little things," ect. Which makes sense, especially since looking at that vaunted 1998 roster, only Jeter and Mariano are No Doubt Hall Bound* *Though I'd except a Bernie, Pettitte, Posada or others will get some strong consideration late in their BBWAA run or on the Vets ballots. Actually, come to think of it, Tim Raines deserves some support as well, though more for his Expo days

TheOldMole Oct 07 2006 05:10 PM

Nine up, nine down. Now if the Tigers score about 4 more this inning...

Gwreck Oct 07 2006 05:11 PM

SteveJRogers wrote: looking at that vaunted 1998 roster, only Jeter and Mariano are No Doubt Hall Bound* *Though I'd except a Bernie, Pettitte, Posada or others will get some strong consideration late in their BBWAA run or on the Vets ballots. Actually, come to think of it, Tim Raines deserves some support as well, though more for his Expo days Not a chance for Posada. Pettitte if he gets to 300 wins, otherwise no. Bernie won't get it. See Rice, Jim. Dawson, Andre. etc.

A Boy Named Seo Oct 07 2006 05:17 PM

Whoops! Throwing error on the number 8-hitting third baseman. Guy's a scrub.

MFS62 Oct 07 2006 05:21 PM

Error by A-Rod sets it up for I-Rod to drive in the fourth run for Detroit. 4-0 Tiggers. Later

Frayed Knot Oct 07 2006 05:43 PM

]Basically the fans are saying they should go back to the "basics" of the 96-00 Yanks, the paitence at the plate, doing "the little things," ect. Which makes sense, especially since looking at that vaunted 1998 roster, only Jeter and Mariano are No Doubt Hall Bound* This is more a discussion for a post-mortem thread rather than just a 4-run lead still kinda early in the game ... but it's also nonsense. This team doesn't do anything LESS well than the '96-'00 teams except pitch! (and probably some 'D' a several spots). Jeter, Abreu, Giambi & a healthy Sheff all have "patience" and .400+ OBAs. "Little things" aren't being ignored and fans who think what's missing here is a few sac bunts then that's their problem. This era just doesn't automatically have the better of the pitching matchup 4 games out of 5 like they did back then. There's also a lot of luck involved in ANY good streak and to expect that to continue is foolhardy.

Valadius Oct 07 2006 05:46 PM

Four more innings of baseball left.

Frayed Knot Oct 07 2006 05:47 PM

"Oh boy, is this great!"

OlerudOwned Oct 07 2006 05:54 PM

This is a beatdown now. Maybe Jeter will cry again.

Frayed Knot Oct 07 2006 05:55 PM

Man, I wouldn't have bet a plug nickel on Magglio Ordonez coming back to be a productive player.

metirish Oct 07 2006 05:55 PM

Sorry to the Tigers that I doubted you guys...

Johnny Dickshot Oct 07 2006 05:59 PM

This is pornography for Metfans. Hardcore porno.

Edgy DC Oct 07 2006 06:01 PM

Sox fans too. Ho-lee crap. Things I could've better spent my 300 million on...

metirish Oct 07 2006 06:02 PM

What's Bonderman's pitch count...like 26 or something.

Edgy DC Oct 07 2006 06:03 PM

Nice post-season effort Abreu. Come on.

Yancy Street Gang Oct 07 2006 06:07 PM

I just came home from a day out with the family. I turned on the TV to see how the Yankees-Tigers were doing. It was in a commercial break, and as I was waiting for the game to resume, I said to my son, "Come on, let it be Tigers 7, Yankees 0..." And a moment later, it was exactly that! Am I psychic? Or just plain awesome? Either way, I'm pretty satisfied with the score.

TheOldMole Oct 07 2006 06:07 PM

What I love about this game is that the MFY's are not just being beaten, not just being eliminated...they're being humiliated. And not just humiliated...the humiliation grows deeper every inning.

Edgy DC Oct 07 2006 06:07 PM

Zumaya will pitch one day for the Yankees. He's just making too much of an impression. Lyons will one day announce for the Yankees. He's just too much..

Edgy DC Oct 07 2006 06:08 PM

That croissanwich commercial just pisses me off. It's interrupting the porn.

metirish Oct 07 2006 06:10 PM

I loved last night how Joe Morgan was making excuses for himself after proclaming this yankee team the greatest hitting lineup EVER...

Valadius Oct 07 2006 06:10 PM

FUCK!!!

Edgy DC Oct 07 2006 06:10 PM

Scrappy Cano! Enjoy it for what it's worth, Yankees. Those are few and far between today.

Yancy Street Gang Oct 07 2006 06:12 PM

Valadius wrote: FUCK!!! What would cause that reaction? A six-run homer?

Valadius Oct 07 2006 06:14 PM

Breaking up a perfect game against the MFYs is what.

Johnny Dickshot Oct 07 2006 06:14 PM

]Am I psychic? Or just plain awesome? Please don't dis the power of the beards.

smg58 Oct 07 2006 06:15 PM

Geez, the Yankees can't even hit it hard enough to get a double play...

Yancy Street Gang Oct 07 2006 06:16 PM

="Valadius"]Breaking up a perfect game against the MFYs is what. I didn't realize it was a perfect game. That would have been nice, but it's not important. It merits a Fiddlesticks, and nothing more.

Frayed Knot Oct 07 2006 06:17 PM

That was ARod's series high-light: NOT hitting into a GiDP

Valadius Oct 07 2006 06:20 PM

You know that if the score holds, retards will be calling up the FAN for the next year pounding A-Rod's performance in the post-season when everyone else in that lineup choked as well. Not to mention their pitchers.

Valadius Oct 07 2006 06:25 PM

Holy crap! Sean Casey came to the plate, and I swore it was Mark McGwire.

TheOldMole Oct 07 2006 06:26 PM

Every play, every inning, twists the knife a little more.

dinosaur jesus Oct 07 2006 06:26 PM

In a Schadenfreude sort of way, this is as much fun as I've had watching a ballgame.

OlerudOwned Oct 07 2006 06:26 PM

Somewhere, Chris Shelton weeps to himself.

Valadius Oct 07 2006 06:30 PM

Sean Casey's a Jersey boy, too, born in Willingboro.

TheOldMole Oct 07 2006 06:34 PM

Hey, tighten it up, guys -- I want to see them shut out.

Valadius Oct 07 2006 06:34 PM

Calm down Jeremy, take your time.

TheOldMole Oct 07 2006 06:35 PM

And having them get a runner to third with nobody out and then strand him would be especially sweet.

TheOldMole Oct 07 2006 06:36 PM

Damn...so close. But I'm still happy.

smg58 Oct 07 2006 06:37 PM

]You know that if the score holds, retards will be calling up the FAN for the next year pounding A-Rod's performance in the post-season when everyone else in that lineup choked as well. Not to mention their pitchers. Of course. But when you have a $253M contract, you're expected to be Michael Jordan and have six rings to show for your efforts by the end of it. At the very least, the deal that brought A-Rod to New York was supposed to put the Red Sox in the rear view mirror once and for all, and we know how that worked out. A-Rod had to be a big time difference maker to justify that contract, and it's never happened. Jeter is still above .500 for the series, so nobody will blame him. And their pitchers just aren't that good, or at least don't warrant any expectations (even the Unit, who is well past his prime). A-Rod will get more blame than he deserves, but he won't get any sympathy from me.

smg58 Oct 07 2006 06:40 PM

If only Bonderman could have pitched like that ONCE when he was part of my fantasy team!

Edgy DC Oct 07 2006 06:41 PM

A lot of talk about theoretical radio-phoning yahoos recently, don'tcha think?

Valadius Oct 07 2006 06:50 PM

Two more innings. Six more outs. Let's go Tiggers!

TheOldMole Oct 07 2006 07:00 PM

Listen to that ovation for the kid. I can't believe they cut it so short to go to a commercial.

Valadius Oct 07 2006 07:00 PM

Derek Jeter, Professional Choker.

Edgy DC Oct 07 2006 07:01 PM

The story here isn't Bonderman winning, but Jeter losing. Amazin'.

Yancy Street Gang Oct 07 2006 07:03 PM

Edgy DC wrote: A lot of talk about theoretical radio-phoning yahoos recently, don'tcha think? Yes. I think this forum would be a better place if we pretended that sportstalk radio didn't exist.

Edgy DC Oct 07 2006 07:04 PM

Bring in Vance Wilson!

Valadius Oct 07 2006 07:07 PM

Sheffield drops it!!!

smg58 Oct 07 2006 07:07 PM

Shef really looked like an experienced first baseman on that one.

Valadius Oct 07 2006 07:11 PM

HAHAHA!!! Jeter didn't want to chance the throw to first!!!

ScarletKnight41 Oct 07 2006 07:11 PM

OK - let's finish this up quickly. We have a game in Los Angeles of Los Angeles to watch!

Valadius Oct 07 2006 07:13 PM

Damn right!

Johnny Dickshot Oct 07 2006 07:15 PM

How embarrassed is Selig going to be when they find out they didn't even bother to print up the obligatory CHAMPION TIGERS hats and shirts?

smg58 Oct 07 2006 07:16 PM

I suppose if Bonderman's not pitching until game 4 of the ALCS, keeping him in is no big deal, but I'd be careful. Niceley done by Monroe.

Valadius Oct 07 2006 07:17 PM

Craig Monroe with the diving catch!!!

ScarletKnight41 Oct 07 2006 07:17 PM

Wow! GREAT catch! Now Bonderman leaves with 2 out, to the roar of the crowd!

TheOldMole Oct 07 2006 07:18 PM

Why not let him go for the complete game? But I'm not complaining.

Valadius Oct 07 2006 07:19 PM

99 pitches. Maybe that's why. Although I disagree with it.

ScarletKnight41 Oct 07 2006 07:20 PM

I think they pulled him so he could get the ovation.

Valadius Oct 07 2006 07:20 PM

Sportscasters are not mathematicians. Remember that.

Valadius Oct 07 2006 07:22 PM

They're also not linguists.

smg58 Oct 07 2006 07:22 PM

Last out.

Valadius Oct 07 2006 07:22 PM

One. More. Out.

ScarletKnight41 Oct 07 2006 07:22 PM

2 out!

TheOldMole Oct 07 2006 07:23 PM

I should mention here that on the news discussion BB that I run, I have been getting constant flak from a curmudgeonly conservative Yankee fan, for saying "This has to be the result they were hoping for," when in fact that was open to question (Well, the CCYF thought I was totally wrong, but that's another story). So I answered him, "I was speaking colloquially, as in 'this has to be the prettiest sunset I've ever seen,' or 'this has to be the most humiliating defeat the Yankees have ever suffered.'"

smg58 Oct 07 2006 07:24 PM

Gopher ball to Posada. Thank God for big cushions.

ScarletKnight41 Oct 07 2006 07:24 PM

Ho Hum. A 2 run homer. 8-3 Tiggers, with one out to go.

TheOldMole Oct 07 2006 07:24 PM

Did you ever see such glum, perfunctory high-fiving in a dugout?

Valadius Oct 07 2006 07:24 PM

YES!!!!!!!!!!

ScarletKnight41 Oct 07 2006 07:24 PM

TheOldMole Oct 07 2006 07:24 PM

How sweet it is.

smg58 Oct 07 2006 07:24 PM

Party time! See you in twenty minutes...

TheOldMole Oct 07 2006 07:25 PM

Is the Met game on the same channel, or do I have to look for the remote?

Valadius Oct 07 2006 07:25 PM

Ding dong the schmucks are dead, the schmucks are dead, the schmucks are dead!!!

ScarletKnight41 Oct 07 2006 07:26 PM

Same channel. Relax and enjoy :)

Valadius Oct 07 2006 07:27 PM

BTW Mole, what is this news discussion BB?

Johnny Dickshot Oct 07 2006 07:27 PM

Same bat channel. They're lifting Leland up on shoulders. How great would it be here to cut to a shot of Selig waiting at Steinbrenner's office, tapping his foot, while George writes the revenue-sharing check?

ScarletKnight41 Oct 07 2006 07:29 PM

JD is on fire today <g>

Edgy DC Oct 07 2006 07:30 PM

Shopping in the porn section, circa 2009: "Hmm, Big Trouble in Little Vagina... that might be good. Brassiere to Eternity? Naaah. 2006 ALDS? What's that?" I haven't seen the goofy hats and tee-shirts yet. Dickshot may be right.

Valadius Oct 07 2006 07:32 PM

There's a "Leyland for Governor" sign.

KC Oct 07 2006 07:35 PM

PLAY LOUD!

Valadius Oct 07 2006 07:42 PM

Ok, which Tiger just yelled "Aflac"?

vtmet Oct 07 2006 07:48 PM

Thank you Motor City...I can handle it if the Mets don't go all the way...I didn't want to deal with the Yankees making it further than the Mets...thanks for removing the torment...

metsguyinmichigan Oct 07 2006 08:53 PM

That might have been the best non-Mets post-game celebration I've ever seen! Kudos to Gambler going on the dugout roof like that and making nice with the fans.

cleonjones11 Oct 07 2006 08:56 PM

Thank You's to.God...Santa Claus....Mother Teresa....and of course g--rod

metsguyinmichigan Oct 07 2006 08:59 PM

His new name should be 8Rod. Clearly he's gone. You don't embarass a regining MVP like that unless you're telling him to start collecting cardboard boxes and rent a U-Haul.

ScarletKnight41 Oct 07 2006 09:04 PM

At least he has a future in beverage delivery.

vtmet Oct 07 2006 09:11 PM

Could be one of the better hitting RH left fielders available in the off season...

metsguyinmichigan Oct 07 2006 09:11 PM

ScarletKnight41 wrote: At least he has a future in beverage delivery. Bad ass! (That's a compliment)

ScarletKnight41 Oct 07 2006 09:17 PM

Thanks :)

Willets Point Oct 07 2006 11:32 PM

This was fun to watch. Doubly fun watching with a Michigander (or is Michigoose the correct term?). I loved how the players sprayed champagne on the fans, I've never seen that before. I'm also proud to be the world's suckiest prognosticator and extend the reverse karma jinx on the Yankees to a 6th year.

Rotblatt Oct 07 2006 11:41 PM

Love it! I was so fucking happy watching this game. Go Detroit!

Johnny Dickshot Oct 07 2006 11:41 PM

Somewhere on this site I rationalized a Detroit series victory because their starting pitching was probably the best of the AL playoffians, and therefore the most dangerous MFY opponent. But I was just wishfully projecting. Who knew how right I'd be.

metsmarathon Oct 08 2006 12:17 AM

y'know, it strikes me as pretty classless that torre and the yankees would've announced to the media that arod was to bat 8th before ever telling him. in fact, everything this year that's gone on with arod has been classless. has he come up small, yep. have the yankees even moreso? hell yeah. class my ass. and that fakey derek jeter too.

Frayed Knot Oct 08 2006 12:20 AM

On Oct 16, 2004, the Yankees pounded out 22 hits and 19 runs while taking a 3-0 lead over the Red Sox in the ALCS. They're 3 - 10 in playoff games since 0-4 to the Sox 2-3 to the Angels in '05 1-3 v the Tiggers in '06

Rotblatt Oct 08 2006 12:20 AM

The only dissapointment for me tonight was that I never saw a shot of poor wittle Jeter trying desperately--and failing--to look stoic. If anyone has a picture of that, I'd love to see it!

Johnny Dickshot Oct 08 2006 12:23 AM

Yeah well, the MFYs abundance of talent causes their own troubles. I'd consider Arod as the Met 2Bman next year, if the Yanks pay the freight. Anyway, real class from the Tigers in their postgame interviews, just about everyone did the old 2-4-6-8-who-do-we-appreciate thing.

Edgy DC Oct 08 2006 12:25 AM

Willets Point wrote: I'm also proud to be the world's suckiest prognosticator and extend the reverse karma jinx on the Yankees to a 6th year. cleonjones11 will be so disappointed.

Yancy Street Gang Oct 08 2006 12:28 AM

Yeah, I'm heartbroken for cleon. He can still predict a St. Louis or San Diego sweep in the NLCS. All is not lost for cleon.

Zvon Oct 08 2006 01:39 AM

ESPN says that the NY Daily News says that Steinbrenner says that Torre will be fired and replaced by Sweet Lou as manager of the NY Skanks.. Anything that gets Pinella out of the broadcasting booth sits well w/me.

SteveJRogers Oct 08 2006 01:59 AM

I was going to post that in the AP MFY thread, but WOW! I know its been a rough 6 years and all, but a complete regression to a Billy Martin like move is incredible! Just when you thought The Boss was mellowed, senile, or just plain not his old self HEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE'SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS BAAAAAAAACCCKKK! [url=http://www.ultimatemets.com/metannual.php?ThisYear=2001]2001 82-80 3rd NL East[/url]

OlerudOwned Oct 08 2006 02:00 AM

Make him Willie's bench caddy.

Zvon Oct 08 2006 02:09 AM

OlerudOwned wrote: Make him Willie's bench caddy. lmao --I was quite suprised myself to hear this, and it could be ESPN or TDNews tryin to drum up a story from nothing.

metsmarathon Oct 08 2006 02:11 AM

please. it doesnt take a steinbrenner to notice that torre can't get that team to play for him when the chips are down. after this postseason, torre should be fired. no matter how many championships he won last millenium.

metsmarathon Oct 08 2006 02:12 AM

and yeah, i'll happily take arod off the yankee's payroll, if they're willing to pay a sizeable portion of his remaining contract for us.

Gwreck Oct 08 2006 02:17 AM

metsmarathon wrote: and yeah, i'll happily take arod off the yankee's payroll, if they're willing to pay a sizeable portion of his remaining contract for us. Does he play second base or left field?

Zvon Oct 08 2006 02:18 AM

="metsmarathon"]please. it doesnt take a steinbrenner to notice that torre can't get that team to play for him when the chips are down. after this postseason, torre should be fired. no matter how many championships he won last millenium. ...funny thing is,....I dont really give a happy crappy what happens there.

Zvon Oct 08 2006 02:22 AM

one question tho----does Torre cry during his departure press conference?

Edgy DC Oct 08 2006 07:50 AM

I don't give a happy crappy what free agents are available next year, but that sizeable portion of A-Rod's contract has already been covered by Texas. A-Rod's merely something like the third- or fourth-highest-paid Yankee, isn't he? The next four years, his total salary shoots up to 27 mills. I don't know how much of that is Texas's, but they agreed to pay $71 mill out of the $183 mill that he was owed when he went to the Yankees. That's a lot.

MFS62 Oct 08 2006 08:48 AM

To A-Rod, the Yanks, Joe Torre and Captain Clutch, as they used to sing on the Magic Garden: See ya, see ya, Glad that you could stay a while, da dum, Glad that we could say "Good morning" to ya, Hope you'll have a shiny day. Later

dinosaur jesus Oct 08 2006 10:13 AM

The Detroit shortstop outplayed the New York shortstop. But is he ready for Michael Jordan?

ABG Oct 08 2006 11:48 AM

Torre wouldn't make a bad bench coach. And Arod could hit eighth and play 2b for us.

Valadius Oct 08 2006 12:04 PM

HELL no. Keep A-Rod the hell away from Shea. Our chemistry is too fucking good to be screwed up by a whining crybaby like A-Rod.

Yancy Street Gang Oct 08 2006 12:05 PM

I read this morning, I think in Newsday, that the remaining obligation on Rodriguez's contract is four years at $16 million per. That's pretty much Beltran money. And there's no tent involved.

Gwreck Oct 08 2006 01:24 PM

[url=http://www.nypost.com/seven/10082006/sports/yankees/jeremy_had_tipster_yankees_lenn_robbins.htm]Jeremy Bonderman tipped off about Yankees.[/url] So who was the pitcher who called and offered tips on the Yankees? My guess is Curt Schilling.

OlerudOwned Oct 08 2006 01:51 PM

Long-shot conspiracy pick: A-Rod

Edgy DC Oct 08 2006 02:28 PM

SteveJRogers wrote: Just when you thought The Boss was mellowed, senile, or just plain not his old self I never thought this.

SteveJRogers Oct 08 2006 02:46 PM

Edgy DC wrote: ="SteveJRogers"]Just when you thought The Boss was mellowed, senile, or just plain not his old self I never thought this. Me neither, but it seems The Boss Being The Boss stories have been few and far between, even over the course of the last 6 years. Seemed like Steinbrenner was given the Don Zimmer "Loveable Grumpy Old Uncle" label over the last few years by the NY media

Zvon Oct 08 2006 03:25 PM

The old General Steinbrenner would have dumped Torre after the 2002 Yanks/Angels series....if not, definately after Bostons classic comeback. No---he has mellowed a bit. Thats why Im just a tad surprised over this, and wont really believe it till it actually happens. Torres managing, to me, just isnt the real core of the Yankees problems. Firing him doesnt seem to be the way to start addressing their dilemma, IMO.

Edgy DC Oct 08 2006 04:46 PM

Zvon wrote: The old General Steinbrenner would have dumped Torre after the 2002 Yanks/Angels series....if not, definately after Bostons classic comeback. No---he has mellowed a bit. I disagree. The reason Torre didn't get axed after those losses is that he had built up more equity in wins than his predecessors.

dinosaur jesus Oct 08 2006 07:39 PM

I just did some research on the most dangerous lineup ever. They are the 51st-highest-scoring team in American League history, 16th-best in the last thirteen years. In runs scored per game against league average (a much better criterion), they are 61st (a four-way tie). In the last fifty years, 19th (a two-way tie). In the last twenty years, 12th (a two-way tie). In the last ten, 8th. In the last five, 4th. In the last two, 2nd. So there you have it: the 2006 Yankees are the most awesome group of sluggers ever assembled. Since the 2005 Red Sox.

ABG Oct 08 2006 08:01 PM

dinosaur jesus wrote: I just did some research on the most dangerous lineup ever. They are the 51st-highest-scoring team in American League history, 16th-best in the last thirteen years. In runs scored per game against league average (a much better criterion), they are 61st (a four-way tie). In the last fifty years, 19th (a two-way tie). In the last twenty years, 12th (a two-way tie). In the last ten, 8th. In the last five, 4th. In the last two, 2nd. So there you have it: the 2006 Yankees are the most awesome group of sluggers ever assembled. Since the 2005 Red Sox. They were missing Matsui and Sheffield most of the year and only got Abreu at the deadline. The hyperbole has obviously been based on what they put on the field in the playoffs, not their numbers over the course of the season.

dinosaur jesus Oct 08 2006 09:10 PM

Yes, but most teams have injuries to key players at some point. Not quite as extensive at that, but still. With Cabrera and Williams instead of Matsui and Sheffield, they lost some runs, but not as many as you'd think. Both of those guys played pretty well.

Johnny Dickshot Oct 08 2006 09:30 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Oct 08 2006 09:31 PM

^/[

Johnny Dickshot Oct 08 2006 09:31 PM

dinosaur jesus wrote: I just did some research on the most dangerous lineup ever. They are the 51st-highest-scoring team in American League history, 16th-best in the last thirteen years. In runs scored per game against league average (a much better criterion), they are 61st (a four-way tie). In the last fifty years, 19th (a two-way tie). In the last twenty years, 12th (a two-way tie). In the last ten, 8th. In the last five, 4th. In the last two, 2nd. So there you have it: the 2006 Yankees are the most awesome group of sluggers ever assembled. Since the 2005 Red Sox. good work, dino

silverdsl Oct 09 2006 10:30 AM

metsmarathon wrote: please. it doesnt take a steinbrenner to notice that torre can't get that team to play for him when the chips are down. I'm not sure any manager could have gotten this team to play for him. There was a story in some paper or another where it said that in August Johnny Damon noticed how listlessly the Yankees were playing and tried to rally his teammates into waking up. He was met with cold stares and indifference to the point of where he asked a team official whether he had done something wrong. He did something right, but that his teammates weren't interested in playing with anymore enthusiasm, interest, energy, or effort, is an indication the problem rests with the players, imo.

Johnny Dickshot Oct 09 2006 10:55 AM

Johnny Dickshot wrote: Nice Carnac. There's the Bobby Abreu we all know and love, tentatively approaching a catchable fly ball for a single. I'm xcited about the Tigers chances tonight. I'd like to nominate this moment, from Page 13 of this thread, as the Foxwoods Resort & Casino Turning Point of the series. The remark was in reaction to Abreu moseying toward, and stopping short of, a soft fly ball by Carlos Guillen leading off the Tigers 2nd inning when the game was 0-0. Seemed relatively harmless at the time but started a 3-run rally that gave Rogers something to fight to protect, and the rout was on. Now those of us Met fans who watched Abreu over the years knew that his addition to the MFYs was going to be huge boost offensively -- stick him in that line-up, let him reach base like he knows how and suddenly they're scoring 2 runs more a night -- and we knew the Phillies seemingly got nothing for him since the MFYs recklessly jack the payroll whenever something looks bad (Cashman is OK in my book but a lying sack of shit when he discusses the budget). Anyway, we also knew that in Abreu the MFYs were getting probably the most blase and aloof superstar this side of Barry Bonds, and could only hope that his habit of turning his engine off from time to time, particularly on defense, would come at just the right moment. Well it did and this was it. Abreu would go on to nonchalant one more play that I recall in this series, pulling up to let a foul ball near the wall drop, but I don't recall if it was costly. Meantime, his offense went into hibernation (his power deserted him more than a year ago) and, maybe this is just me, enveloped the whole team the same way the Phillies also seemed to play stupider and worse than their talent would lead you to believe (note how they caught fire the minute this fat, happy lazybones left the squad... and finally, we can thank them for not unloading him 2 weeks earlier or they might have caught us in the standings. And so Cashman, at last, thank you. And Bobby, thank you. And good luck playing under Lou!

Centerfield Oct 09 2006 11:32 AM

It's Jeter's fault. http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/yankees/story/459941p-386970c.html

Johnny Dickshot Oct 09 2006 11:49 AM

I think Harper actually makes a case there.

Centerfield Oct 09 2006 12:07 PM

For the first time in a while, I had the chance to listen to talk radio this weekend. We beat up on Mad Dog alot, but he was excellent on Saturday morning. He was talking about the Tigers/MFY Game 3. By the time I tuned in, I guess someone had said Kenny Rogers would be old news by Game 4 and that as long as the Yankees won, no one would care or remember. Russo was great, he said something along the lines of (I'm paraphrasing): You're right. At 4:10 this afternoon, you won't be thinking about Kenny Rogers. It'll be the dawn of a new day. You'll have your TV on, they'll be giving you the lineups and you'll smile when you hear those great names. Jeter, Giambi, Abreu...you'll have your drink ready, you'll be all set to go. The Yankee fan will be happy at 4 o'clock. At 8 o'clock, it'll be a different story. When A-Rod taps out to second base to end the game, and the Tigers are celebrating, and the Yankees will be hanging their heads in the dugout. At 8 o'clock, the Yankee fan is going to be miserable. Wondering how it all went wrong. You're gonna be angry. You're gonna snap at your wife. Not gonna want to see your kids even though you know it's wrong. You're gonna want to take this whole team apart. Fire Torre, trade A-Rod. You don't want to be a Yankee fan at 8 o'clock. But what are you going to do? It's 8 o'clock. You can't go to bed. You can't just shut off the TV and fall asleep. Your wife is going to want to go out. Maybe watch a movie. Meet some friends. But you're not going to be in the mood to do that. There's no football on. Certainly don't want to watch the Mets. No, the Yankee fan at 8 o'clock will have no choice but to watch the celebration. Watch every Tiger spill champagne. Watch them talk about how they never gave up even after losing Game 1. The Yankee fan will have no choice but to watch every last interview. That's what the Yankee fans has to look forward to today. Happy at 4, miserable at 8.

smg58 Oct 09 2006 12:21 PM

Edgy DC wrote: cleonjones11 will be so disappointed. Has anybody heard from Cleon lately?

smg58 Oct 09 2006 12:35 PM

ABG wrote: They were missing Matsui and Sheffield most of the year and only got Abreu at the deadline. The hyperbole has obviously been based on what they put on the field in the playoffs, not their numbers over the course of the season. Yes, but the hype had as much to do with what these guys have done in the past than the present. Sheffield was rusty, and like a lot of the Yankees, is past his peak. Matsui probably as well. Abreu is not the hitter he was a few years ago. Giambi played hurt. Maybe Cano isn't really a .340 hitter. And maybe hitters with gaudy numbers can be neutralized by good pitching, you know kind of like the Yankees always did when they won playoff series in the increasingly distant past. Maybe the Tigers, who had a better record than the Yankees pretty much all year until after they clinched a playoff spot, were actually the better team. If Torre is guilty of anything, it's that he couldn't overcome a team-wide arrogance that the media kept reinforcing. So now the media wants him to go. I'm enjoying this a lot.

ABG Oct 09 2006 12:38 PM

smg58 wrote: ="Edgy DC"]cleonjones11 will be so disappointed. Has anybody heard from Cleon lately? He'll check back in if bad news on Floyd comes down.

Willets Point Oct 09 2006 12:39 PM

smg58 wrote: ="Edgy DC"]cleonjones11 will be so disappointed. Has anybody heard from Cleon lately? If the Mets lose a single game to the Cardinals he'll be sure to drop by.

Hillbilly Oct 09 2006 12:57 PM

Centerfield wrote: It's Jeter's fault. http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/yankees/story/459941p-386970c.html I think this point of view has a lot of merit. I wonder if this means that Jeter might not be as good as MJ?

Edgy DC Oct 09 2006 02:43 PM

Abreu's pullup at the wall was in the last game, ast the Tigs were pulling away. When the Yanks needed somebody to show some fire and spearhead the comeback, as outs were getting precious because the Yanks were digging deeper into a relatively shaloow pen, Abreu took a pass. Even lamer because the fans were gracous enough to get out of the way and give him room to play it. On edit: Oh, yeah, trade Jeter NOW!!!!

Centerfield Oct 09 2006 05:14 PM

Edgy DC wrote: Oh, yeah, trade Jeter NOW!!!! Jim Caple agrees: http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=caple/061009&lpos=spotlight&lid=tab2pos1

Hillbilly Oct 09 2006 05:27 PM

Caple makes some good points and has some really funny lines too.

MFS62 Oct 09 2006 05:57 PM

So, Edgy, How did you comfort Ms. S? Later

ScarletKnight41 Oct 09 2006 06:26 PM

Centerfield wrote: ="Edgy DC"] Oh, yeah, trade Jeter NOW!!!! Jim Caple agrees: http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=caple/061009&lpos=spotlight&lid=tab2pos1 ] No one is saying Jeter has to like A-Rod, but geez, even Tanner came to Timmy Lupus' defense in "The Bad News Bears." Brilliant!