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Game 1 Rehash

Frayed Knot Oct 04 2006 08:13 PM

I'm sure some of this stuff was covered in the IGT, but stuff also tends to get lost in there at times * This game showed the plusses and minuses of the way our roster is structured with the 12 pitchers and all. It gave Willie the freedom to use the quick hook there in the 5th after Maine walked Furball after having him down 2-0 and burn the tag-team duo on just two batters even though there were still 4 inning (and maybe more) to go. On the other hand, it shortens the bench and lessens the options for PH-ing for Mota w/2 out and bags full because you['ve still got 3 innings to cover and you're already on your 4th pitcher. I didn't realize that Mota's hitting record was as decent as it was (most relievers swing once every 6 months or so) but w/a different set-up I'd be screaming for a PH there. Willie played the whole thing perfectly IMO * Couldn't see what the 3rd base coach did or didn't do there with Drew on that Chinese fire-drill of a play. Kent read that ball badly enough to start with (Green never got close to that ball) but there's NO WAY you can send Drew there. Drew appeared to glance back towards the coaching box right after he was called out but I have no idea if that fuck-up was his or the coach's. Meanwhile, Maine was yelling at Duke to turn around but I don't think he ever heard him. He got a bit lucky there that he turned around when he did. * We also got a bit lucky when Delgado was sent on Wright's RF double. Good throw there and he's out by plenty and there was only 1 out at the time. Risky call and maybe even a bad one ... but it worked. * Anyone see where Delgado's HR landed? The cameras never seemed to pick it up. Balls looked to be carrying today - especially those fly balls to RF. * That grounder to Valentin hadn't even reached him and I'm already screaming 'Play's at First!!'. Bad decision AND bad execution there. * Heilman was dealing. None of the threee batters he faced got so much as a decent swing. * Steve Phillips talks a bit too much (let's face it, most analysts do) but he's actually not too bad. Made some good points here and there in the midst of his lengthy soliloquies.

Edgy DC Oct 04 2006 08:21 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Oct 04 2006 08:28 PM

I think the Mota at-bat was a consequence of Willie going early to the pen for sure. He didn't want to ask for two innings from Heilman because he wants him at his best tomorrow. Kind of funny, but I see Randolph (almost) giving that big at-bat away --- in order not to have to go to Heilman in the seventh, as a vote of confindence in Heilman, in a way.

Elster88 Oct 04 2006 08:22 PM

]Chinese fire-drill of a play I'm dying here.

Elster88 Oct 04 2006 08:23 PM

]* Anyone see where Delgado's HR landed? The cameras never seemed to pick it up. Balls looked to be carrying today - especially those fly balls to RF. WFAN called it a 470-footer.

Elster88 Oct 04 2006 08:25 PM

Lo Duca on SNY confirms he didn't hear Wright, Delgado, or Maine screaming at him during the fire drill.

Elster88 Oct 04 2006 08:26 PM

BTW I'm fucking exhausted. I forgot how tiring playoff baseball is. Especially Met playoff baseball.

A Boy Named Seo Oct 04 2006 08:34 PM

]I didn't realize that Mota's hitting record was as decent as it was (most relievers swing once every 6 months or so) but w/a different set-up I'd be screaming for a PH there. Willie played the whole thing perfectly IMO I thought it was funny for a couple of reasons. Marlon (lefty) was leading off the 7th followed by Betemit (switch), plus the pitcher's spot. Mota's got a Heilman-type slider (edit: I meant change-up) that can give lefties fits, but I thought maybe Oliver might start the inning at least. Marlon hit .310/.373/.556 against righties and just .256/.284/.365 against lefties. Betemit was even worse. .281/.344/.505 against righties, .189/.250/.324 against lefties. Burn Woody there and maybe something good happens. If not, the Mets still have Franco and Castro as the righties on the bench and Oliver to face at least the first two guys.

Rotblatt Oct 04 2006 10:18 PM

I was surprised that Oliver wasn't used too. Makes me wonder if Willie's considering giving him the start in Game 4. I think the worst decision that Little made was to put Penny in there. Just a TERRIBLE idea. We've crushed Penny through his career, and the Dodgers actually have a decent bullpen already.

Yancy Street Gang Oct 04 2006 10:23 PM

Elster88 wrote: BTW I'm fucking exhausted. I forgot how tiring playoff baseball is. Especially Met playoff baseball. I know what you mean. Watching that game wore me out.

soupcan Oct 04 2006 10:31 PM

What a great, tense game. I had a blast. The crowd was into every pitch. Where my seats are I have an excellent view of plays at the plate. I saw Loduca tag Kent but wasn't looking for drew and assumed he stopped at third. LoDuca and Kent were blocking my view of third base so I didn't see Drew really until Loduca did. It was bang-bang and really fired up the crowd. The atmosphere was really, really something. Loved Willie's micromanaging in the 5th. Again, when they got out of that inning, the crowd was pumped. Wagner gives up a run, Benitez would've given up 3. Celeb sightings: Tim Robbins, Ray Romano, Mayor Bloomberg, Ron Howard, John McEnroe. I razzed Ron Howard's Dodger fan ass.

Frayed Knot Oct 04 2006 10:38 PM

Oliver (or Robo) was certainly an option, but here's what I think Willie's thinking: - there's already 2 outs w/a 3-run lead and the odds of Woodie or Franco getting a hit there isn't all that much better than Mota. So what he'd rather do there and take that small hit as opposed to going to what he must feel is a lesser reliever while there's still got 3 innings left to cover and you've already burned two guys. It's certainly debateable, but I liked his choices today.

soupcan Oct 04 2006 10:41 PM

Rotblatt wrote: I think the worst decision that Little made was to put Penny in there. Just a TERRIBLE idea. We've crushed Penny through his career, and the Dodgers actually have a decent bullpen already. Grady Little and postseason pitching decisions should be kept in separate rooms.

Edgy DC Oct 04 2006 11:02 PM

I wasn't surprised. How oft' has Oliver been thrown into a win-lose situation this year when there was anybody else to go to first?

Yancy Street Gang Oct 04 2006 11:07 PM

Johnny Dickshot Oct 04 2006 11:15 PM

Frayed Knot wrote: Oliver (or Robo) was certainly an option, but here's what I think Willie's thinking: - there's already 2 outs w/a 3-run lead and the odds of Woodie or Franco getting a hit there isn't all that much better than Mota. So what he'd rather do there and take that small hit as opposed to going to what he must feel is a lesser reliever while there's still got 3 innings left to cover and you've already burned two guys. It's certainly debateable, but I liked his choices today. Well, of course we were set up great but Green's K was the regrettable play. Don't think you can go around thinking you deserve another shot after that. Overall we did a poor job leaving ducks at third (twice w/ 1 out) which, save for a lucky double-play at home plate or 1 more Garciaparra base hit, loom huge. And Mota despite 3 runs rewarded Willie. Valentin's play was insane and the kind that could have put Reyes in the hospital. I can almost guarantee that unless someone else rips a gastrox, Oliver won't start, nor will he go into a lead-to-protect situation like in the 7th: It's just not what Willie wants out of him. He's in reserve for mopping up Perez in Game 4 or, if things break differently, Maine today.

duan Oct 05 2006 05:03 AM

it doesn't matter now but how gyped was floyd by the home plate umpire in the bottom of the 7th with the bases juiced.

Edgy DC Oct 05 2006 08:02 AM

Guys at Dodger Blues were opening up veins in decrying the home plate umping. The bad breaks broke both ways though. Both teams scrod themselves with overaggression; the Mets scrod less.

Yancy Street Gang Oct 05 2006 08:03 AM

That Dodger Blues site is awful.

soupcan Oct 05 2006 09:12 AM

I forgot - walking out after the game I saw Branford Marsalis among the unwashed. Nobody recognized him. I said 'Branford, nice job (national anthem before the game)'. Instead of the usual 'yeah, thanks' and continue walking, he chatted me up a bit. Branford: Thanks, man, sure is hot in here, great game, right?' soupcan: 'Um, yeah.'

Yancy Street Gang Oct 05 2006 09:16 AM

When I went to a game in June, I recognized and chatted up the National Anthem singer as we were leaving the ballpark. She wasn't anyone famous, she was a pretty girl wearing tight pink pants. (If not for the prettiness and/or the pink pants, I'm sure I wouldn't have remembered her.) She really enjoyed being recognized. She told me that she was actually invited by the Mets to perform, she hadn't auditioned or sent in a tape or anything like that. She's a local performer, and one of the Mets National Anthem scouts must have seen her somewhere. National Anthem singers don't get any VIP treatment after the performance, though. She just went to a regular seat in the ballpark and had to exit with the riffraff. You'd think they'd at least let her watch the game from the Diamond Club or something.

Edgy DC Oct 05 2006 09:27 AM

="soupcan"]I forgot - walking out after the game I saw Branford Marsalis among the unwashed. Nobody recognized him. I said 'Branford, nice job (national anthem before the game)'. Instead of the usual 'yeah, thanks' and continue walking, he chatted me up a bit. Branford: Thanks, man, sure is hot in here, great game, right?' soupcan: 'Um, yeah.' Edgy's fantasy version Edgy: Branford, nice job. Branford: Thanks, man, sure is hot in here, great game, right? Edgy: Hot? Yeah. So honestly, who did you want to smack more? Sting or Leno? Branford: Well, heh, um. Edgy: It was Sting, right? Personally, some days I feel like I could smack him all day. You know what I mean? All fucking day. Branford: Take care. I gotta catch... Edgy: Tell me Sting's number. You've got to.

Yancy Street Gang Oct 05 2006 09:28 AM

I don't think I'll post my fantasy version of my chat with the pretty girl in the tight pink pants.

cooby Oct 05 2006 09:31 AM

Pretty girl: Hi! Yancy: Um Pretty girl: I'm Kathy! Yancy: I'm Yancy Pretty girl: Come on over! Yancy: Got a POTG thread to edit, sorry.

Frayed Knot Oct 05 2006 09:42 AM

So how are the three runs against Mota all earned? - The bunt single led off the inning - then came the FC/error on Valentin where he should have gotten AN out somewhere but didn't - Strike out - RBI single - Fly out ... SHOULD HAVE BEEN THE 3rd OUT - The Nomar 2-RBI 2B ... one of which should never have been on base I guess what they're thinking is that the error merely allowed Anderson to get to 3rd and that somehow an out on that play wasn't a given ... even though it wasn't scored a hit. I was thinking of it as only one earned but I guess they figure that the fielder's choice was a BAD choice that didn't get an out but didn't negate an out.

Johnny Dickshot Oct 05 2006 09:47 AM

Johnny: Nice job, Mr. Marsalis. Branford: Thanks. Johnny: Wifey has a trumpet, but I don't think she could play as well as you. Branford: It's gotta go, 'BOP-dah-dah-dah, Dah-DAH-dah. Not 'BOP-dah-dah-dah, DAH-dah-dah.' Johnny: Uh, Branford, I'm not Ken Burns. Branford: Sorry, man. You bearded short white guys all look alike to me.

soupcan Oct 05 2006 09:49 AM

Maybe that's why he engaged me. With my soul patch of facial hair he thought I was a Jazzman.

Willets Point Oct 05 2006 10:02 AM

A Boston perspective. Usually I can't stand Shaugnessy, but this article is actually kind of fun. Maybe it's because someone in the Boston media actually acknowledges that baseball is still being played post-Red Sox.

Gwreck Oct 05 2006 10:39 AM

It was fun, execept for Dan Shaugnessy talking about walking on the logos painted into the grass. Um, Dan, keep your freakin feet off of our playoff logos. Thanks.

MFS62 Oct 05 2006 11:16 AM

Who made the throw on the home plate DP? Was it Valentin? I coldn't tell from the replays I saw. He was originally a shortstop and I doubt many other "pure" second basemen would have had a strong enough arm to make that throw. Later

soupcan Oct 05 2006 11:19 AM

MFS62 wrote: He was originally a shortstop and I doubt many other "pure" second basemen would have had a strong enough arm to make that throw. Who are you - George Steinbrenner? It was a throw from a deep infield position. My mom could've gotten it to the plate from there.

cooby Oct 05 2006 11:30 AM

Really? Do you think she'll be free next summer?

MFS62 Oct 05 2006 11:36 AM

soupcan wrote: ="MFS62"]He was originally a shortstop and I doubt many other "pure" second basemen would have had a strong enough arm to make that throw. It was a throw from a deep infield position. My mom could've gotten it to the plate from there. Was your mom a shortstop? From the replay, it looked like Green's throw barely would reach the dirt part of the infield, if that far. And the weakest arm in the infield usually plays second base. I have no doubt an average shortstop or third baseman could have made that throw, But having an ex-shortstop at second is an indication to me that the karma is going the Mets' way. Later

Gwreck Oct 05 2006 12:22 PM

Yes, relay throw was Valentin.

Farmer Ted Oct 05 2006 12:36 PM

Ted: Wow, that was a great national anthem today. Who was that guy? Milton Davis? Branford: That's MILES Davis. Ted: Right. He was fan-freaking-tastic. Branford: Actually it was Branford Marsalis playing the national anthem. Ted: No, you mean Wynton Marsalis. I think he's also known as George Clinton of the P-Funk. After 81 home games I guess they can't find anyone new that can sing that damn song. Not like I know the words. Man, you have some big cheeks.

metirish Oct 05 2006 12:54 PM

I'm shocked one of us here made this crack...from Bill Simmons.. ] 1:08 -- On the downside, the Mets' pitching rotation (and postseason chances) have been decimated by injuries. On the upside, that led to today's pitching matchup being Lowe-Maine. Get it? Lowe-Maine. Nearly 200 people e-mailed me this joke today. Don't blame me. Lowe-Maine.....brilliant.

Edgy DC Oct 05 2006 01:14 PM

Keep in mind that that the quick hook allows Randolph to bring Mainer back on short rest if he so wishes.

Yancy Street Gang Oct 05 2006 01:40 PM

That occurred to me, too. Which would mean Maine in Game 4. But to follow that up, you're left with the following alternatives if there's a Game 5: Glavine on short rest, Oliver Perez, or perhaps Darren Oliver. (Is Dave Williams on the roster? I can't remember.)

Willets Point Oct 05 2006 01:44 PM

I think Jim, the monsterously huge batboy is pegged to start in that situation.

Gwreck Oct 05 2006 01:48 PM

Williams is not on the roster. The pitching decision will likely be a function of the score in the series. If we are down 1-2, we'd probably go with Maine in Game 4 and we'd probably go with Glavine on short rest in Game 5. If we are up 2-1, I predict Oliver Perez will take the ball. If we win 3-0 we don't need to worry.

MFS62 Oct 05 2006 02:32 PM

Scoring rules question: Did Green get credited for one or two outfield assists on that DP? Later

Edgy DC Oct 05 2006 02:34 PM

Two outs. Two assists.

Yancy Street Gang Oct 05 2006 02:36 PM

Gwreck wrote: The pitching decision will likely be a function of the score in the series. If we are down 1-2, we'd probably go with Maine in Game 4 and we'd probably go with Glavine on short rest in Game 5. If we are up 2-1, I predict Oliver Perez will take the ball. I suspect that's right. I predict that either way, Game 4 is going to be a tension convention. I'd really like to see this series end in three games. Neither of the alternatives for Game 4 makes me feel warm or fuzzy.

Rotblatt Oct 05 2006 02:38 PM

Huh. I'm sure you're right, Edgy, but I scored an assist for Green on the tag of Kent, then unassisted for the tag of Drew. Is it 2 assists because LoDuca retained possession of the ball in between outs?

Edgy DC Oct 05 2006 02:42 PM

The play begins with the first fielder. If the shortstop tosses the ball to second and the secondbaseman makes a forceout out and relays the ball to first for the doubleplay, the shortstop gets two assists, but only one if the play isn't made at first, despite him having a limited ability to influence what happens after he releases the ball. I don't see why this play should be different.

Yancy Street Gang Oct 05 2006 02:49 PM

The shortstop gets two assists on a 6-4-3? That doesn't sound right to me. I'd say the shortstop gets the assist for the first out. The second baseman gets the putout for the first out and the assist for the second out.

Gwreck Oct 05 2006 02:52 PM

The play should be scored: Assist to Green Assist to Valentin Putouts (2) to LoDuca.

Rotblatt Oct 05 2006 02:58 PM

Gwreck wrote: The play should be scored: Assist to Green Assist to Valentin Putouts (2) to LoDuca. That makes sense. So if we'd only gotten Kent out, would it be scored: Assist to Green Assist to Valentin Putout (1) to LoDuca?

Gwreck Oct 05 2006 03:00 PM

Yancy Street Gang wrote: I predict that either way, Game 4 is going to be a tension convention. I'd really like to see this series end in three games. Neither of the alternatives for Game 4 makes me feel warm or fuzzy. The Dodgers have their own troubles to worry about. They've announced Brad Penny as the game 4 starter. Other options include Aaron Sele, Billingsley, Tomko and Hendrickson.

Gwreck Oct 05 2006 03:00 PM

Rotblatt wrote: ="Gwreck"]The play should be scored: Assist to Green Assist to Valentin Putouts (2) to LoDuca. That makes sense. So if we'd only gotten Kent out, would it be scored: Assist to Green Assist to Valentin Putout (1) to LoDuca? Exactly.

Edgy DC Oct 05 2006 03:03 PM

Yancy Street Gang wrote: The shortstop gets two assists on a 6-4-3? That doesn't sound right to me. I'd say the shortstop gets the assist for the first out. The second baseman gets the putout for the first out and the assist for the second out. I put a 6-4 in the box of the baserunner and a 6-4-3 in the box of the batter. The shortstop gets two assists at the end of the day, the secondbaseman a putout and an assist.

Johnny Dickshot Oct 05 2006 03:05 PM

Tomko faced the Mets 3 times this preseason and did great, and got off to a good start as a starter this year, then imploded. Remember there was a dude on the mofo who thought Tomko was the shiznit? On his better days he's not bad.

Rotblatt Oct 05 2006 03:09 PM

Edgy DC wrote: I put a 6-4 in the box of the baserunner and a 6-4-3 in the box of the batter. The shortstop gets two assists at the end of the day, the secondbaseman a putout and an assist. Ah, that makes sense as well. I think I'll start doing that--usually I just put a 6-4-3 in the box of the batter, then put the out # in the box of the baserunner. So in a rundown, am I right in thinking that everyone involved on the play gets an assist? So a 1-3-6-1-4-3 play would have 5 assists? And the first baseman would be credited with an assist and a putout?

Edgy DC Oct 05 2006 03:15 PM

That's the way I'd do it. I could be wrong. I do know for certain, however, that you can only get a single assist on a single putout, no matter how long a rundown goes on.

Rotblatt Oct 05 2006 03:38 PM

Edgy DC wrote: That's the way I'd do it. I could be wrong. I do know for certain, however, that you can only get a single assist on a single putout, no matter how long a rundown goes on. Ah, that makes sense. So even if the second baseman threw the ball twice, he'd only get one assist. Nifty. I'm such a geek, that I love find out about this shit.

Frayed Knot Oct 05 2006 03:39 PM

I'm not even so sure that they give an assist to the first guy, aka: the guy before the guy who fed the putout. IOW, Valentin gets the assist for feeding LoDuca but not Green for merely feeding Valentin. A 6-4-3 is different since the first feed leads directly to an out. This ain't hockey after all. The weird part of the scoring on that play is that the batter only gets a single since lead runner Kent did NOT advance safely two bases.

MFS62 Oct 05 2006 03:42 PM

FK- Any player that touches the ball gets credited with an assist if an out results. Like when a comebacker goes off the pitcher's glove to an infielder who throws the runner out, the pitcher gets an assist. Later

Frayed Knot Oct 05 2006 03:55 PM

I know it's written that way on scorecards, but do they always tally those up in the 'Assists' column? After all, when discussing OFer assists it's generally thought to represent those who the OFer himself threw out, not ones where said OFer dug the ball out of the corner and some guy was tagged out two relays later. Nor, do I believe, that the SS gets 2 assists on a 6-4-3

Yancy Street Gang Oct 05 2006 04:17 PM

The rule book isn't all that clear on the matter: ]ASSISTS 10.11 An assist shall be credited to each fielder who throws or deflects a batted or thrown ball in such a way that a putout results, or would have resulted except for a subsequent error by any fielder. Only one assist and no more shall be credited to each fielder who throws or deflects the ball in a run-down play which results in a putout, or would have resulted in a putout, except for a subsequent error. NOTE: Mere ineffective contact with the ball shall not be considered an assist. “Deflect” shall mean to slow down or change the direction of the ball and thereby effectively assist in putting out a batter or runner. (a) Credit an assist to each fielder who throws or deflects the ball during a play which results in a runner being called out for interference, or for running out of line. (b) Do not credit an assist to the pitcher on a strikeout. EXCEPTION: Credit an assist if the pitcher fields an uncaught third strike and makes a throw which results in a putout. (c) Do not credit an assist to the pitcher when, as the result of a legal pitch received by the catcher, a runner is put out, as when the catcher picks a runner off base, throws out a runner trying to steal, or tags a runner trying to score. (d) Do not credit an assist to a fielder whose wild throw permits a runner to advance, even though the runner subsequently is put out as a result of continuous play. A play which follows a misplay (whether or not it is an error) is a new play, and the fielder making any misplay shall not be credited with an assist unless he takes part in the new play.

Gwreck Oct 05 2006 05:27 PM

I think it's very clear. Green and Valentin each get an assist. They threw the ball as part of the first putout. There was no assist on the second putout.

Yancy Street Gang Oct 05 2006 07:08 PM

I meant it wasn't clear about the 6-4-3 double play.

Elster88 Oct 05 2006 08:07 PM

The "official" statistics on nymets.com list only one assist for Green. "Official" meaning approved by Major League Baseball. I'm not sure if that means anything.

A Boy Named Seo Oct 07 2006 06:17 PM

Check out this neat stuff I found while poking around the internets. Looks like Maine needs to better getting his offspeed stuff over for strikes and get the leadoff guy out.

Frayed Knot Oct 07 2006 06:24 PM

That's good stuff that I'd like to see over longer periods of time rather than just one game. Some of those situational pcts are prolly based on some pretty small samples meaning the "Grade" could change radically with just a tweak here and there.

Valadius Oct 07 2006 06:28 PM

I like those dominance statistics.