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Barry Zito Meter 10/3 Do we go after no matter what cost

YES! YES! FOR THE LOVE OF SEAVER ANYTHING TO GET HIM HERE!

5 votes

Only go so much, we may actually have a budget and Boras may pull his ARod crap all over again

8 votes

Can we WAIT untill the 2006 postseason turns out?

8 votes

SteveJRogers Oct 03 2006 03:00 PM

El Duque questionable Pedro, out till June-ish Starting rotation in shambles... Barry Zito just outdueled Johan Santana on Santana's turf Is Zito worth the FA dollars? He is a Boras client and hasn't quite been the 2002 Zito in a while. Its possible he would be a terrible fit in NYC (see Pavano, Carl for an example) And if he is, how high are you now willing to go?

metsmarathon Oct 03 2006 03:02 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Oct 03 2006 03:07 PM

i'm gonna go with option three... also, "whatever it takes" is just silly. there whould always be an upper limit to what you are willing to pay. since you presumably are responsible for the one vote for whatever it takes, what if it took $52.7 M per season, plus all fans in attendance on the day that zito pitches would be required to wear only burlap sacks or be turned away by security guards armed with stun guns and trained weasels? you'd be already on record as signing up for those terms.

vtmet Oct 03 2006 03:05 PM

is he worth the money? no... Is he an Elite ace? IMO, no... do I want him? not really but... after seeing the way that Ryan Howard, Chase Utley and Jimmy Rollins have done in the 2nd half of the season...combined with seeing how badly the Twins young lefties looked against Zito's offspeed pitching...Zito may not be as bad of an idea as I used to think...

SteveJRogers Oct 03 2006 03:09 PM

vtmet wrote: is he worth the money? no... Is he an Elite ace? IMO, no... Granted Peterson's track record (i.e. 10 minutes with Zambrano) is shitty, but there is a reason Beane still kept him around and dumped Hudson and Mulder on the Braves and Cards. Considering how Hudson and Mulder have been injury prone since the trades makes me think Mr. Zito just needs his old pitching coach and a "change of scenery

metsmarathon Oct 03 2006 03:10 PM

SteveJRogers wrote: Granted Peterson's track record (i.e. 10 minutes with Zambrano) is shitty..., i thought both ends of that statement had already been debunked...?

SteveJRogers Oct 03 2006 03:16 PM

Well he's no Mazzone or anything, but its kind of been a common thought around baseball that Peterson was kept around for this exact spot, to bring in Barry Zito

metsmarathon Oct 03 2006 03:19 PM

that's not at all what i'm questioning. what i'm questioning is that: a) peterson's track record is shitty b) peterson claimed to be able to do anything more than correct a minor mechanical flaw in victor zambrano's delivery in 10 minutes.

SteveJRogers Oct 03 2006 03:22 PM

metsmarathon wrote: that's not at all what i'm questioning. what i'm questioning is that: a) peterson's track record is shitty b) peterson claimed to be able to do anything more than correct a minor mechanical flaw in victor zambrano's delivery in 10 minutes. Peterson never used the 10 minutes line with Zambrano? Seems like Peterson will never live that one down though. Show me evidence that Peterson has made a difference to a pitcher here in NY since he's been here.

metsmarathon Oct 03 2006 03:27 PM

you claimed he's been shitty. i think htat makes it your onus, but i can look it up later if i'm sufficiently motivated. the info i've seen says that peterson did indeed say something about 10 minutes with zambrano, but it was only to fix a minor flaw in his delivery, not turn him into the next sandy koufax or anything of the sort. and i wouldn't be able to find that now if i tried. maybe the wayback machine can be of some assistance...?

vtmet Oct 03 2006 03:34 PM

so far, I've read that a catcher's inability to throw out runners has little effect on a pitcher...and now, a pitching coach has little effect on a pitcher? Does Willie's pep talks where he goes out and yells at Maine have any effect? It sure looks that way to me because just about every time that Maine is losing it, Willie's trips to the mound snaps him out of it...

metirish Oct 03 2006 06:15 PM

Well he's no Mazzone or anything, Check out how Baltimore did this season...

metsmarathon Oct 03 2006 06:29 PM

so far, three people would have no problem wearing burlap to shea next season...

Willets Point Oct 03 2006 06:31 PM

metsmarathon wrote: so far, three people would have no problem wearing burlap to shea next season... They saw how good Jessica Alba looks in burlap and decided to follow suit.

Johnny Dickshot Oct 03 2006 07:16 PM

Granted Peterson's track record (i.e. 10 minutes with Zambrano) is shitty, but there is a reason Beane still kept him around and dumped Hudson and Mulder on the Braves and Cards. Kindly take garbage like this to a forum that will tolerate it. I mean it.

d'Kong76 Oct 03 2006 07:26 PM

I took three. I'd take four if it were available: I don't (and never had) Zito on a roto team, I don't think he's hot looking, Scott Boras eats donkey doo, and Rick Peterson wore short sleeves a couple of times this year so that dispells the rumors that he has hive scratching wounds from his 'ten minutes with Zambrano'.

Edgy MD Oct 03 2006 07:46 PM

SteveJRogers wrote: Seems like Peterson will never live that one down though. That's because too many people get a hateful idea in their head and won't listen to anything else. Don't let yourself be one. Ever SteveJRogers wrote: Show me evidence that Peterson has made a difference to a pitcher here in NY since he's been here. Show me evidence that his track record is pretty shitty.

metirish Oct 03 2006 07:49 PM

SteveJRogers wrote: Show me evidence that Peterson has made a difference to a pitcher here in NY since he's been here. Pedro Feliciano,Jorge Julio,Chad Bradford, Mota...Glavine, Heilman...I could go on.....will this ever go away?

Elster88 Oct 03 2006 08:27 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Oct 03 2006 08:32 PM

Eh. I'll remove this. Miami's calf is pissing me off.

Edgy MD Oct 03 2006 08:29 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Oct 04 2006 07:23 AM

See now, you shouldn't have answered that, because you allow him to put the burden of proof on you. Of course, it's rather unproveable that any player's success can be attributed to his coach, so your preponderance of evidence can be rejected as not being "proof."

smg58 Oct 04 2006 07:07 AM

I'm not sure how much of yesterday's game was Zito, and how much of it was the Twins swinging at one pitch out of the strike zone after another. He doesn't get away with that against the MFY's.

smg58 Oct 04 2006 07:08 AM

PS This marks the third year in a row that the Mets' pitching has exceeded my expectations, and I don't know how you'd evaluate a pitching coach based on anything else.

Benjamin Grimm Oct 04 2006 07:10 AM

There's always rumor and innuendo.

Johnny Dickshot Oct 04 2006 07:18 AM

Parroting talkradio douchewhistles is how I go about it.

metsmarathon Oct 04 2006 07:24 AM

douchewhistle. that's a new one. i have no idea how the hell i'm going to incorporate that one into my everyday vernacular, but it's important that i try.

Edgy MD Oct 04 2006 07:31 AM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Oct 04 2006 07:52 AM

Three bad ways to behave: Parroting talkradio douchewhistles Douching talkradio whistleparrots Whistling talkradio parrotdouches

RealityChuck Oct 04 2006 07:51 AM

Show me evidence that Peterson has made a difference to a pitcher here in NY since he's been here. Telling Glavine to start using a curve ball. Glavine specifically cited Peterson as making the suggestion, which put him onto the All-Star team this year. Oliver Perez went from a washed-up AAA player in July to just short of making the postseason roster (and some reports say he'll be on it). I saw a scout's analysis online comparing video of Perez with the Pirates earlier this year with how he's pitching with the Mets (and with him a couple of years ago), showing that he's changed the way he pitches to more like he did when he won a dozen games and praising Peterson. Someone had to tell Perez what he was doing wrong, and Peterson is the obvious choice. Here's the analysis: http://www.baseballthinkfactory.org/fil ... ver_perez/

Benjamin Grimm Oct 04 2006 07:53 AM

Don't forget Guillermo Mota. What a turnaround he had this year after he was traded. Of course, some will argue that it was our old friend "Change of Scenery" who fixed what was wrong with Mota.

metsmarathon Oct 04 2006 07:57 AM

what pitchers has peterson made worse?

MFS62 Oct 04 2006 08:07 AM

Peterson; The Good; He told Williams to move to the other side of the rubber - immediate good results. The Bad: He tried to change Heliman's delivery (from 3/4 to overhand). After getting knocked around, Aaron went back to the delivery that had been successful for him in college and his performance improved. The Ugly: Well, Mother Teresa couldn't have cured what was wrong with Jose Lima. :) Later

metirish Oct 04 2006 08:09 AM

The Bad: He tried to change Heliman's delivery (from 3/4 to overhand). After getting knocked around, Aaron went back to the delivery that had been successful for him in college and his performance improved. IIRC it was Peterson that told him to go back to how he threw while at ND.

RealityChuck Oct 04 2006 09:13 AM

That's how it always been reported: Heilman changed his delivery and wanted to stick to his old one despite the urgings of the entire coaching staff.

Edgy MD Oct 04 2006 10:07 AM

Don't screw with Aaron's delivery! The father of New York Mets reliever and Logansport native Aaron Heilman, Joe Heilman, has advice for young pitchers everywhere. "The one key thing with his development was simply we let him progress at his own rate," Joe Heilman said. "We put him before the competition. We went out and played in some tournaments and played out of state and those sorts of things. But we let Aaron progress at his own rate. He had his style of pitching. A couple times I had to talk to a few coaches and say, 'Hey, leave him alone. You're not going to change his motion. You're not going to do this or do that just because you want a curveball.' Never to this day has he thrown a curveball the way you or I would throw a curveball by snapping our wrist and elbows - putting a lot of strain and pressure. He uses the movement on the ball with the pressure on his fingers on the ball." Hard work is also a key. "We let him see that if he did want to compete, if he wanted to play at a higher level, he was going to have to work a little bit more, he was going to work a little bit harder," Joe said. "Dad was going to have to rent a few more gyms so we could get in and practice during the winter time. I think he played three sports, four sports until about eighth grade. He gave everything else up and really concentrated on baseball." Joe added that while no overhand throw is natural, Aaron's three-quarters motion feels the most comfortable to him. He also said Aaron has never had an arm injury nor does he need his arm iced down after he pitches. As for when boys should start throwing breaking balls, Joe says "when they're adults. You can get a lot of movement and change of speed on pitches just by your finger placement on the ball and how you grip it." Joe and his wife Deb, Aaron's mother, keep very connected with their son's involvement with the Mets. "I call him and give him my quick critique of how he pitched after every game and let him know what dad thinks," Joe said. "Other than that we talk about once a week or so and have a longer conversation, of course." The Heilmans listen to every Mets game on XM radio and when Aaron pitches, they watch the game either on television when it's on here or on their computer on MLB.com with the help of a high-speed Internet connection. They follow news articles on him via a Google News search of his name. They also listen to New York sports radio. They attend Mets games if they're playing in the Midwest throughout the summer. They plan to attend games in New York if the Mets make it to the National League Championship Series and the World Series. Aaron isn't the only athlete in the family. Joe played basketball at St. Benedict's College and ran track and field at Indiana University. Aaron's two sisters, Michelle and Jennifer, were standout softball players in high school. Michelle pitched at St. Joseph's College. "Michelle took up fast-pitch pitching and Aaron wasn't going to be outdone," Joe said. "Every time that Michelle threw a no-hitter, then Aaron had to come back and do the same thing. There was quite a bit of competition there between the two of them." Aaron led Logansport High School to two regional titles. The Berries, who have the third-most state championships in baseball in Indiana with four, reached the state finals during his junior year in 1996. That was when the state finals were two games in one day, and he didn't start the afternoon game, in which the Berries were defeated by Merrillville 5-3. Aaron was the Gatorade state player of the year his senior year, when he went 11-1 with a 1.06 ERA and had 105 strike outs in 79 innings pitched. As a junior, he went 10-3 with two saves, a 0.98 ERA and 87 strike outs and 17 walks in 81 innings pitched. He pitched a perfect game as a freshman and had a 17-strike out game in a 1996 American Legion regional contest. The Mets open National League Division Series play today when they host the Los Angeles Dodgers at 4 p.m.

SteveJRogers Nov 12 2006 09:59 PM

Yancy Street Gang wrote: Don't forget Guillermo Mota. What a turnaround he had this year after he was traded. Of course, some will argue that it was our old friend "Change of Scenery" who fixed what was wrong with Mota. I think we now know what fixed Mota!