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You're Fired and you're Hired.

metirish Oct 02 2006 03:24 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Oct 03 2006 02:29 PM

Dusty out in Chicago and Alou will not be back with the Giants,so far that's three openings in the NL ,two less African American managers,and from what I'm reading Girardi is no shoo in for the Cubs job.

metirish Oct 02 2006 03:25 PM

Opps, Alou is not African American..my bad.

Ned Fengus Oct 02 2006 03:26 PM Re: You're Fired.

metirish wrote: Dusty out in Chicago and Alou will not be back with the Giants,so far that's three openings in the NL ,two less African American managers,and from what I'm reading Girardi is no shoo in for the Cubs job. I don't believe that Alou is African-American. In fact I'm sure of it.

OlerudOwned Oct 02 2006 03:29 PM

There are two less with Robinson and Baker out, though. So you were right. Even though you were wrong. Or something like that.

Yancy Street Gang Oct 02 2006 03:31 PM

Is anybody rooting for anyone in particular to get a shot at one of those jobs? (Or any others that might open up?) I'd like to see Wally Backman get hired again, and actually manage this time, but I really doubt that that will happen.

metirish Oct 02 2006 03:31 PM

thanks OO,I am all confused.

metirish Oct 02 2006 03:32 PM

I'd love to see Bobby V back in a big market but in an interview that I posted here last week he could not be happier in Japan.

OlerudOwned Oct 02 2006 03:32 PM

I think Manny Acta is going to get a shot somewhere.

metirish Oct 02 2006 03:34 PM

Acta has a shot with the Marlins but I read that the front runner is Freddie Gonzalez.

vtmet Oct 02 2006 07:24 PM

Yancy Street Gang wrote: Is anybody rooting for anyone in particular to get a shot at one of those jobs? (Or any others that might open up?) . The main thing that I'd like to see is for new guys to get a shot...seeing the same guys just get moved from club to club while other guys not getting a shot gets pretty old...I'll just call it the "Hubie/Larry Brown" syndrome (10 coaching jobs between the 2)...

Edgy DC Oct 02 2006 07:47 PM

I understand distrust of the old boy network, but Hubie Brown (1) is excellent, and (2) waited 16 years between jobs. Larry Brown's record speaks for itself.

Frayed Knot Oct 02 2006 11:27 PM

The interesting job might be in Frisco. If you were interviewing there, wouldn't you kinda want to know in advance: a) whether or not they were planning on re-upping Bonds? and b) knowing how much authority you would have with him if he was around? I think a lot of folks - including most Giant players - are hoping that they'll just cut ties with him at this point. But his 2nd-half mini-resurgence gave him more HRs this season then he'll need next season to catch Aaron. That alone could give owner McGowen - prolly Bonds' biggest booster already - enough incentive to go one more year. It'll be one of the more interesting off-season questions.

Frayed Knot Oct 03 2006 10:23 AM

It's official; Girardi's out in Florida.

Yancy Street Gang Oct 03 2006 10:46 AM

He must've been a real prick to be fired for personality reasons after the season he just had, and with two of three years remaining on his contract. I wonder if he gets another chance?

metirish Oct 03 2006 10:51 AM

If we are to believe what we are hearing and reading then I don't see why any GM would go near him.

Edgy DC Oct 03 2006 10:53 AM

I don't doubt that he will. There have been lots of managerial pricks, including a few in the Hall of Fame. They keep getting hired. With Torre pedigree and a brief resume that has him far exceeding the expectations for the only team he managed, I'd be surprised if he didn't have a job for opening day 2007.

Johnny Dickshot Oct 03 2006 10:54 AM

Yancy Street Gang wrote: He must've been a real prick to be fired for personality reasons after the season he just had, and with two of three years remaining on his contract. I wonder if he gets another chance? From what I understand, Girardi was too good to fit into Loria's scheme to kill the Marlins and that's the source of their difficulty, more or less. Loria is like Bud's personal hit man -- he's sent to franchises that won;t buy him a new stadium (Montreal, now Florida), acts like a jackass and screws over fans. I'm sure after the Fish pack up and move to Vegas (and hopefully, join the AL) Loria ca$hes out bigtime. I hear Girardi is well liked in Chicago and would get a shot at the Cub job.

metirish Oct 03 2006 02:24 PM

The Marlins have named Fredi Gonzalez as their new manager.

Frayed Knot Oct 03 2006 02:31 PM

Wow, that was quick! Me thinks there was some contact betweent he parties prior to the season ending. Girardi supposedly has a bit of Buck Showalter in him in that he's a bit of a control freak and wants his hands in every step of the pie-making. The Chicago supposition comes from the fact that he's from Illinois and attended Northwestern. Also, the Tribune ownership reportedly likes him. Either way, he'll land on his feet somewhere.

metirish Oct 03 2006 02:34 PM

His meeting with the Marlins GM lasted for about 5 minutes Girardi said,Loria did not attend,apparently Larry Beinfest wanted to hire Gonzalaz last year but Loria picked Girardi.

Edgy DC Oct 04 2006 12:13 AM

The Washington Post claims "sources" having the Nats interested in Girardi.

DocTee Oct 04 2006 11:32 AM

Buck Showalter out in Texas...Jaramillo??

metirish Oct 04 2006 11:33 AM

Buck minght a good fit for the Cubs.

MFS62 Oct 04 2006 11:44 AM

According to my Ranger fan friend, bench coach Don Wakamatsu, and Trey Hillman (who managed in Japan the last couple of years) are the leading candidates to replace Buck. Later

Frayed Knot Oct 04 2006 12:35 PM

Someone asked before if the damage to Girardi's 'rep' in Florida was enough to prevent him from getting another managing job. I think that it's Showalter's rep that may prevent him from landing a new one anytime soon. This is now three good (or at least decent) clubs that have kicked him out over issues of disgruntled players and co-workers - two of which still owed him major money. Now, if form holds, Texas will win the WS next year. Get your bets in NOW!!!!

Gwreck Oct 08 2006 02:23 AM

ESPN is reporting that Torre will be fired (unless he resigns) and likely replaced with Lou Pinella. [url=http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2617224]Seriously.[/url]

Zvon Oct 08 2006 02:26 AM

Gwreck wrote: ESPN is reporting that Torre will be fired (unless he resigns) and likely replaced with Lou Pinella. [url=http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2617224]Seriously.[/url] oh--it goes here. Dont mind me- sometimes you have to take me by the shoulders and point me in the right direction. But yea-what he said.

Gwreck Oct 08 2006 02:36 AM

Crap, I missed this in the Tigers/Yankees series thread. I suppose it could go in the AP MFY thread too. Too many decisions.

Zvon Oct 08 2006 02:38 AM

Gwreck wrote: Crap, I missed this in the Tigers/Yankees series thread. I suppose it could go in the AP MFY thread too. Too many decisions. lol---no, my bad G. I better at least try and sleep. One more brew-ill guzzle.

old original jb Oct 08 2006 11:06 PM

]"In a public statement he issued Sunday, Steinbrenner called the result "absolutely not acceptable" and "a sad failure." But he had not yet consulted with Yankees executives about any change, at least not yet, a baseball official said Sunday, speaking on condition of anonymity because no statements other than Steinbrenner's were authorized." Not, "My guys played a great season but Detroit just outplayed us in the series." Not, "this is very dissapointing, but when so many good teams play in the post-season, there are no guarantees. If anything ever illustrated the Yankee sense of entitlement we all hate, this is it. ]"That's pretty drastic," outfielder Johnny Damon was quoted as saying by the Web site. "Joe has been awesome. You never know what's going to happen, but I think Joe should be safe. For all he's done and had to put up with, he's been incredible." Welcome to the Bronx, Johnny. Yankeeball is, in contrast to what you may have experienced elsewhere, grim business. Watch your back.

HahnSolo Oct 09 2006 11:42 AM

If I were a GM, I'd give a call to Manny Acta.

TheOldMole Oct 09 2006 12:02 PM

If Manny Acta gets a managerial job, any choices for Mets new third base coach? Joe Torre?

Yancy Street Gang Oct 09 2006 01:00 PM

I think if Torre got hired to replace Acta, Jerry Manuel would coach third and Torre would be the bench guy. I think I read somewhere that the Texas Rangers want to talk to Joe.

Willets Point Oct 09 2006 01:07 PM

We can only hire Joe if he's player-coach.

Yancy Street Gang Oct 09 2006 01:10 PM

That could work. He's probably younger than Julio Franco.

metirish Oct 16 2006 02:49 PM

Jon Heyman reporting that the Cubs are close to hiring Lou Piniella.

Willets Point Oct 16 2006 02:55 PM

Farmer Ted Oct 16 2006 03:06 PM

The Sun-Times says it's done. Cubs finalize deal to make Piniella manager Cubs ready to introduce Piniella as manager October 16, 2006 BY CHRIS DE LUCA Staff Reporter The Cubs finalized a deal making Lou Piniella their new manager today, agreeing on a three-year contract believed to be worth at least $4 million annually. According to team and industry sources, Piniella is expected to be introduced at a news conference Tuesday. Formal negotiations with Piniella's Chicago-based agent, Alan Nero, began Sunday, the day after the veteran manager's duties as a Fox analyst ended with the conclusion of the American League Championship Series. ''I think we'll be ready to announce something in the next couple of days,'' Cubs general manager Jim Hendry said Sunday night. ''I've been very pleased with how this process has gone.'' Piniella, 63, was tops on Hendry's wish list long before the process began. Hendry's decision was apparently made on Friday, after he had concluded his most serious interviews with Piniella, former Florida Marlins manager Joe Girardi and Cubs broadcaster Bob Brenly. Sources say Piniella's people knew on Friday they had won the derby. San Diego Padres manager Bruce Bochy was identified as the No. 2 candidate if talks with Piniella fell through. Though Bochy had been granted permission from Padres CEO Sandy Alderson to interview with the Cubs, Hendry never made a formal request. He backed off when it was clear the sought-after Piniella had the Cubs at the top of his own wish list. ''Listen, I'm not interested in managing just to say I'm a major-league manager,'' Piniella told the Sun-Times over the weekend during the ALCS in Detroit. ''I'm looking for an opportunity to win.'' The feeling in Piniella's camp is the Cubs have the resources -- with a payroll expected to jump to the $115 million range -- and some key core players, such as first baseman Derrek Lee, third baseman Aramis Ramirez, All-Star pitcher Carlos Zambrano and catcher Michael Barrett, to make a serious run in a potentially weak National League Central. Hendry's next major task is locking up Ramirez, who has the right to file for free agency after the World Series. Hendry has been working on a three- or four-year extension that would keep Ramirez off the market. Those talks, however, have been derailed by the managerial search. ''I hope to move that back to the front burner this week,'' Hendry said. Hiring Piniella might mean the return of pitching coach Larry Rothschild, who's not a fan favorite because he has presided over a largely ineffective and injury-prone staff the last three seasons. But Rothschild, who worked with Piniella in Cincinnati, has the respect of Hendry and the Cubs' pitching staff. The Cubs officially cut ties with manager Dusty Baker and his coaching staff two weeks ago today, after the Cubs finished with a 66-96 record that left them in last place in the NL Central. Baker spent the previous four years with the Cubs, taking them to the NLCS in 2003. That run was followed by three highly disappointing seasons marked by injuries. Hiring a manager has been tops on Hendry's to-do list, and he has worked nonstop in the process since the day Baker was let go. At one point, Girardi -- the former Cubs catcher and team captain -- emerged as the favorite, especially after it appeared Piniella might be headed to the New York Yankees to replace Joe Torre. Though new team president John McDonough preferred Girardi, Tribune Co. bosses made it clear this was Hendry's decision to make. The Piniella hire is a clear sign Hendry is making the key baseball decisions. The GM has two years left on his contract, but a poor showing in 2007 likely will mean the end of his run with the Cubs. The mandate from Cubs bosses is to win a World Series by next season. That means Hendry couldn't afford to do anything but aim high. Since July, Piniella had been identified as the most attractive managerial candidate on the market. Piniella has a 1,519-1,420 record during a 19-year managerial career that began in 1986 with the Yankees. He moved on to the Cincinnati Reds and won the 1990 World Series his first year on the job. He managed the Seattle Mariners and won the AL Manager of the Year Award in 1995 and 2001, when the M's won 116 games. Piniella's run in Seattle ended after the 2002 season, when he asked to be traded to the New York Mets or his hometown Tampa Bay Devil Rays. The M's sent him to the Rays, where Piniella managed the cash-strapped team from 2003-05, suffering through three consecutive losing seasons. Piniella asked out of the final year of his contract after the 2005 season. Spending most of the 2006 season working as an analyst for the Fox network helped Piniella recharge his batteries. ''It has been a very nice, relaxing summer for me,'' Piniella said. ''Outside of my first three or four telecasts, where I really pitted out from nerves. The amazing thing about the booth that people don't realize is that things happen a lot quicker up there than they do in the dugout. And you have to be able to articulate it. And they're talking in your ear when you're speaking. ''But I leave home every Friday and I come home either Saturday night or Sunday morning. Not bad.'' But it doesn't compare to his true passion: managing.

Edgy DC Oct 16 2006 03:22 PM

I wonder if Chris De Luca is any relation to our catcher.

Valadius Oct 16 2006 03:29 PM

Hopefully this keeps him away from the broadcast booth.

Yancy Street Gang Oct 16 2006 03:39 PM

As manager of the Cubs, he'll still be available for the playoffs just about every year.

HahnSolo Oct 16 2006 04:24 PM

ESPN reporting Macha out in Oakland. Didn't we go through this last year?

metirish Oct 16 2006 04:25 PM

Beane should just manage them....

Yancy Street Gang Oct 16 2006 04:27 PM

Macha's been there for four years, hasn't he? Since 2003, when Art Howe came to the Mets, if I remember right.

sharpie Oct 16 2006 04:28 PM

Yeah, but he quit and was re-hired last year.

Valadius Oct 16 2006 04:28 PM

Yup, and as I recall he was the one who "did the actual managing" when Art Howe was still in town.

Frayed Knot Oct 16 2006 04:30 PM

Yeah, but what Solo is referring to is that Macha was supposedly fired (not re-hired actually since his contract was over) only to return a week or so later when they agreed to whatever it was they couldn't agree to initially. Also, speaking of Howe, he's landed a coaching job w/the Phillies.

Valadius Oct 16 2006 04:33 PM

Apparently Macha is indeed officially fired, the AP is reporting this.

Yancy Street Gang Oct 16 2006 04:34 PM

Good for him. There's continual talk about Charlie Manuel getting fired. If that happens, Art may at least be Johnny-on-the-spot for an interim gig. I liked Art Howe. He didn't do much for the Mets, but I liked the guy and hope he gets another shot.

Valadius Oct 16 2006 04:48 PM

So this would leave the A's, Giants, Rangers, and Nationals jobs open.

Valadius Oct 16 2006 05:30 PM

Phillies hired three former managers as coaches, actually. Art Howe as third base coach and infield instructor, Davey Lopes as first base coach, and Jimy Williams as bench coach.

Rockin' Doc Oct 16 2006 10:19 PM

From the Chicago Sun-Times article reporting the signing impending signing of Pinella as manager: "The mandate from Cubs bosses is to win a World Series by next season." Apparently the Cubs bosses have been imbibing on some strong "Kool Aid".

Valadius Oct 16 2006 10:42 PM

If the Cubs actually think that they can win the World Series next season, they're insane.

Johnny Dickshot Oct 16 2006 10:43 PM

Yancy Street Gang wrote: As manager of the Cubs, he'll still be available for the playoffs just about every year. Wham.

Edgy DC Oct 24 2006 11:20 AM

Meanwhile, Macha, not having a current MLB uniform to wear, loses his job managing the MLB Japan-Touring All-Star team. He gets replaced by Terry Francona, who then withdraws with a foot infection. Who will manage this august assembly of players? Art Howe was also selected for the job as A's manager four years ago, but was Mets manager by the time the tour started. If another A's manager ever gets the job, you can safely infer that his days with the Elephants are numbered.

Yancy Street Gang Oct 24 2006 11:24 AM

Edgy DC wrote: Who will manage this august assembly of players? I'll do it.

Farmer Ted Oct 24 2006 11:28 AM

Joe Girardi will NOT be managing the Nats. He withdrew from consideration. Good call, Joe.

Edgy DC Oct 24 2006 11:30 AM

Great, but I think they want an active manager.

metirish Oct 25 2006 11:57 AM

Bobby V on the Giants radar http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/10/25/SPGICLVENG1.DTL

metirish Oct 25 2006 11:57 AM

Damn double post....

Nymr83 Oct 25 2006 12:59 PM

i thought Valentine had made it pretty clear he's happy in Japan?

Edgy DC Oct 25 2006 01:00 PM

All I care about is that he's happy in Japan when the Yankees come calling.

Yancy Street Gang Oct 27 2006 08:28 AM

]Bochy agrees in principle to become Giants' new manager By JANIE McCAULEY, AP Sports Writer October 27, 2006 SAN FRANCISCO (AP) -- San Diego Padres manager Bruce Bochy has agreed to become the new skipper of the San Francisco Giants, and was still working out details Thursday night after meeting with team officials most of the day. Bochy had agreed in principle to take the job left vacant when Felipe Alou's contract was not renewed, two baseball officials told The Associated Press on condition of anonymity because the deal was still pending. ADVERTISEMENT Barring any last-minute snags, Bochy would be introduced at a news conference Friday. Normally, Major League Baseball frowns upon such announcements during the World Series, but the Giants will be excused because Bochy is set to leave Monday for Japan with an all-star team. He was the only candidate to replace Alou who has previous major league managerial experience, something general manager Brian Sabean said he preferred. The Giants received permission from the Padres on Wednesday to talk to Bochy, who traveled to the Bay Area on Thursday to meet with Sabean and other team officials. The Giants had only a seven-day window in which to come to agreement with Bochy because he is employed by another team. Bochy, who has one year left on his contract, and Sabean already had an informal conversation about the job. Multiple calls to Bochy and Sabean went unreturned Thursday evening. The 51-year-old Bochy, who just finished his 12th season as the Padres' manager, has guided San Diego to back-to-back NL West titles and is the winningest manager in franchise history. He has spent the last 24 years in the organization, dating to his playing days. He was due to make $1.9 million in guaranteed money in 2007 from the Padres, and was expected to sign a long-term deal with the Giants. Giants first baseman Mark Sweeney, who played for Bochy in San Diego for 3 1/2 seasons, believes his former skipper would be a good fit in San Francisco. "I don't know what they're going to be doing, but I don't think it's just a walkthrough session," Sweeney said Thursday. "If they're looking for experience, I think Boch is that guy. The one thing it's going to do -- and it's good for our organization -- is if there are potential free agents looking for a manager to play for, Bochy's that guy. "It would definitely benefit us in getting some free agents who might go elsewhere. I just think that goes a long way in deciding a team. It adds to it that you get a guy who has that credibility and experience." San Francisco, which has 11 potential free agents including Barry Bonds, did not renew the 71-year-old Alou's contract after the Giants finished their second straight losing season and third in a row out of the playoffs. The Giants on Monday interviewed New York Mets third base coach Manny Acta. Giants bench coach Ron Wotus and Los Angeles Angels pitching coach Bud Black also interviewed. None has major league managerial experience. Bochy's Padres made the playoffs in consecutive seasons for the first time, but were eliminated in the first round for the second straight year by the St. Louis Cardinals. AP Sports Writer Bernie Wilson contributed to this story.

MFS62 Oct 27 2006 09:21 AM

="Yancy Street Gang"] The Giants on Monday interviewed New York Mets third base coach Manny Acta. Giants bench coach Ron Wotus and Los Angeles Angels pitching coach Bud Black also interviewed. Bud Black : ]June 7, 1977: Drafted by the New York Mets in the 2nd round of the 1977 amateur draft (Secondary Phase), but did not sign. Later

Frayed Knot Oct 27 2006 09:23 AM

This all kind of begs the question as to why the Padres so passive in letting Bochy walk over to a division rival with a year still left on his current deal? 'Specially coming off two straight division crowns.

Yancy Street Gang Oct 27 2006 09:25 AM

I was wondering that myself. Do they have a successor to Bochy that they're eager to put into place, like with Howe and Macha in Oakland a few years ago?

OlerudOwned Oct 27 2006 03:42 PM

I hadn't realized that Bochy was in SD for so long. 12 years.

Edgy DC Nov 06 2006 09:00 AM

Reports have Texas hiring Ron Washington.

MFS62 Nov 06 2006 09:31 AM

Gee, I remember when Washington was a highly regarded infield prospect for LA, and I wanted the Mets to get him. Later

Rockin' Doc Nov 06 2006 09:49 AM

Judging from his picture, that must have been a long time ago. He looks older than Franco.

MFS62 Nov 06 2006 10:03 AM

Rockin' Doc wrote: Judging from his picture, that must have been a long time ago. He looks older than Franco. 1) It was. 2) He must be. Later

Valadius Nov 06 2006 11:19 AM

Ron Washington managed in the Mets system for two years.

Johnny Dickshot Nov 08 2006 09:36 PM

Pods to name Bud Black manager.

metirish Nov 08 2006 09:43 PM

For the life of me I can't rememeber where Bud Black was last...Oakland,Rockies?

SteveJRogers Nov 08 2006 09:51 PM

Angels, pitching coach

metirish Nov 08 2006 09:55 PM

Thanks Steve, am I wrong in thinking that not many pitching coaches become managers?

Johnny Dickshot Nov 08 2006 11:06 PM

Not many, at least in this era. Larry Dierker was a pretty well regarded manager, and a pretty good pitcher too. That's the only one I can think off off the top.

Gwreck Nov 08 2006 11:57 PM

Ray Miller (he was the Twins pitching coach in the 90s under Tom Kelly ?) was Baltimore manager a few years back -- before Johnny Oates, I think. He lasted only 1 year, IIRC.

DocTee Nov 09 2006 12:07 AM

Orel Hershiser could be a second one...he was the pitching coach for Texas. no? (or was it LA?) and he is a hot commodity these days...

Johnny Dickshot Nov 09 2006 06:12 AM

George Bamberger was a pitcher in his playing career, the only pitcher to ever manage the Mets.

Edgy DC Nov 09 2006 07:35 AM

Clyde King, Bob Lemon, Lachemann, Roger Craig are some others. Tommy Lasorda, Hall of Fame. But yeah, crossing over from one track to the other is tough.

Frayed Knot Nov 09 2006 09:22 AM

Johnny Dickshot wrote: George Bamberger was a pitcher in his playing career, the only pitcher to ever manage the Mets. Dallas Green sez: 'Remember Me?'

Johnny Dickshot Nov 09 2006 10:26 AM

Teach me to post at 6 am

Johnny Dickshot Nov 10 2006 11:19 PM

Manny Acta withdraws from consideration for the Oakland job because his deal with Washington is "almost done," sez Ken Rosenthal. It's a real Acta treason I tellya.

metirish Nov 10 2006 11:22 PM

Good for Manny,I'll miss his work at third base.....

Edgy DC Nov 10 2006 11:25 PM

Just 37 years old. Almost half Frank Robinson's age. No memories of him in the UMDB. I guess that's good for a third-base coach.

metirish Nov 10 2006 11:30 PM

Is this a reflection of the Mets great season?...I'm happy for Manny, great to see Mets coaches getting interviews for vacent jobs...

Yancy Street Gang Nov 11 2006 06:54 AM

Who fills the opening? I wonder if it will be Lee Mazzilli. Were he and Willie friends in the Bronx?

patona314 Nov 11 2006 07:04 AM

Yancy Street Gang wrote: Who fills the opening? I wonder if it will be Lee Mazzilli. Were he and Willie friends in the Bronx? At one point in my life, I loved Maz. Now, I view him as a traitor. He embraces the Yankees and talks like a Yankee. Maz with the Yankees and Parcells with the Cowboys... Why don't you just shoot me now!

Edgy DC Nov 11 2006 09:04 AM

Credit where it's due department: I've seen Mazzilli called a traitor a lot of times on this old internet. Yours may be the first time I've seen it with the word "traitor" correctly spelled.

Edgy DC Nov 11 2006 09:08 AM

Also, it doesn't matter much, but Manny is the whitest guy I've seen with San Pedro de Marcoris, DR as a birthplace.

patona314 Nov 11 2006 09:11 AM

Edgy DC wrote: Credit where it's due department: I've seen Mazzilli called a traitor a lot of times on this old internet. Yours may be the first time I've seen it with the word "traitor" correctly spelled. worst of it is that he truly is a met. not a seaver or a kooz, but a staub like met. and he ignores it. if he comes back as acta's replacement at 3B, i WILL buy tickets by the 3B bag and let him have it. in a politically correct way that is (i.e. no italian cracks)

Edgy DC Nov 11 2006 09:14 AM

I feel similarly. But I also want to meet the first guy who turns down an offer from the Yankees out of loyalty to the Mets. Two of our first hires --- Stengel and Weiss --- were out-of-work Yankee Hall-of-Famers.

cooby Nov 11 2006 09:15 AM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Nov 11 2006 09:15 AM

patona314 wrote: [ and he ignores it. if he comes back as acta's replacement at 3B, i WILL buy tickets by the 3B bag and let him have it. Why? Because when he had a family to feed, he went and worked for the Yankees when they gave him an opportunity? And because he was loyal to them while he was there? What a loser. What's he saying about them now? My guess is nothing, because Mazzilli always had class.

MFS62 Nov 11 2006 09:15 AM

Edgy DC wrote: Credit where it's due department: I've seen Mazzilli called a traitor a lot of times on this old internet. Yours may be the first time I've seen it with the word "traitor" correctly spelled. (channeling Colonel Parker here) "Meadow muffins!" Later

patona314 Nov 11 2006 09:16 AM

cooby wrote: ="patona314"][ and he ignores it. if he comes back as acta's replacement at 3B, i WILL buy tickets by the 3B bag and let him have it. Why? Because when he had a family to feed, he went and worked for the Yankees when they gave him an opportunity? And because he was loyal to them while he was there? What a loser. What's he saying about them now? My guess is nothing, because Mazzilli always had class. family to feed? was he making 25K a a year? please

cooby Nov 11 2006 09:18 AM

Blown away once again by crystal clear logic.

cooby Nov 11 2006 09:20 AM

Who was paying him that?

Edgy DC Nov 11 2006 09:20 AM

Point being that virtually nobody turns down a big league job offer from one team and chooses to remain unemployed out of loyalty to another team.

patona314 Nov 11 2006 09:24 AM

="Edgy DC"]I feel similarly. But I also want to meet the first guy who turns down an offer from the Yankees out of loyalty to the Mets. Two of our first hires --- Stengel and Weiss --- were out-of-work Yankee Hall-of-Famers. my apologies to all i offend w/my convictions, but... like many generations behind me, i bleed blue and orange. national league baseball in nyc. i do not tolerate traitors.. google leo durocher.

Edgy DC Nov 11 2006 09:26 AM

I don't need to.

patona314 Nov 11 2006 09:27 AM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Nov 11 2006 09:37 AM

cooby wrote: Who was paying him that? the point was he has plenty of $$$ in his checking account

patona314 Nov 11 2006 09:28 AM

="Edgy DC"]Point being that virtually nobody turns down a big league job offer from one team and chooses to remain unemployed out of loyalty to another team. yeah, but why the yankees?

cooby Nov 11 2006 09:40 AM

patona314 wrote: ="cooby"]Who was paying him that? the point was he has plenty of $$$ in his checking account And you know this how? I like how people assume that those who make money don't have to spend any of it. And if you think "why the Yankees" is a good argument to ostracize and verbally abuse Mazzilli, get over it.

Frayed Knot Nov 11 2006 10:03 AM

Thinking that players & coaches are supposed to maintain a fan's version of silly, blind loyalties to a particular team to the point of turning down promotions and stunting their careers is blatantly absurd. We may view the sports world as a set of black hat/white hat contrasts, but they (properly) see those teams, not as good or evil, but as potential EMPLOYERS.

SteveJRogers Nov 11 2006 10:25 AM

Word FK! The biggest example fans use when they try to explain that "back in the old days the players were more loyal to the organization" is Jackie Robinson retiring rather than playing a single game for the Giants. FALSE, FALSE, FALSE! Essentailly Jackie was set to retire after the 1956 season anyway, and even doing so in a magazine article. The trade was made because the Dodgers wanted to pull a fast one on the Giants. Jackie would have been seen as a Roger Clemens type (retiring and then un-retiring) if he played for the Giants, not a traitor.

iramets Nov 11 2006 11:09 AM

Isn't Belicheck doing what Frayed Knot is complaining about fans doing, in his snubbing and dissing of Mangini for accepting the Jets' job despite his (Belicheck's) desire to keep srcewing the Jets? Isn't Belicheck behaving more like a dopey fan than like a professional coach here?

Mark Healey Nov 11 2006 12:37 PM

="Edgy DC"]Point being that virtually nobody turns down a big league job offer from one team and chooses to remain unemployed out of loyalty to another team. Nobody was offerrng a job to Maz once he retired...after bouncing around, the yankees not only offered Maz a job, they offered him a managing job, and he excelled... The Mets don't exactly have such a great track record when it comes to taking care of their own... Mookie "I'm rooting for my son because I'm noty eomplyed by the Mets" Wilson.

Frayed Knot Nov 11 2006 12:50 PM

I honestly don't know what Belicheck's beef is with Mangini - I don't follow closely enough to care really - though it sounds like there are some personal issues buried somewhere. If it is strictly based on him taking a job with "the enemy" then, yeah, he is being a childish dope, especially since most (if not all) of the NYJ ownership/mgmt has changed hands since back when B.B. had his split with them. But, even as dopey as that would be, it's still a different situation than the one where the fans of the team that a player/coach once worked for want him to make career decisions based on what they think of the team where there's a job opening. On a side note, it always cracks me up to hear old-timey fans lauding the likes of Mantle or DiMaggio for their "loyalty" in sticking with the one team for their whole careers -- as if the fact that they were legally (illegally, actually) bound for life to one team had nothing to do with it.

metirish Nov 11 2006 01:12 PM

] The Mets don't exactly have such a great track record when it comes to taking care of their own... Seems to me that every year there are ex Mets coaching in the system, and Mookie had a long run with the Mets coaching at various levels,and did anyone expect him to root for the Mets over his son?

KC Nov 11 2006 01:22 PM

That assertion seems a little absurd to me too. I don't know what the average percentage of ex-homers each organization has working for them but the Mets had a bunch at the beginning of 2006: Randy Niemann John Stearns Al Jackson Howard Johnson Blaine Beatty Tim Teufel Mookie Wilson Gary Carter Keith Hernandez Ron Darling I'm prolly missing some, I just flipped quickly through the media guide.

MFS62 Nov 11 2006 01:36 PM

Blane Beatty's back in the organization? I remember when he was a soft tossing lefty with great numbers as a Mets minor leaguer (The Blake McGinley of his day). Then, IIRC he hurt his arm. Its interesting that with most teams trying to load up (draft/ trade) with as many hard throwers as they can get these days(mostly righty), folks like Beatty and Jackson are counted on to teach them how to pitch. Later

KC Nov 11 2006 02:03 PM

I don't know, and I just realized I was flipping through the 2005 media guide. The point is, as metirish said, you always hear ex-Mets names thrown around when talking about the organizational tree.

Johnny Dickshot Nov 11 2006 03:03 PM

Maz owed his Yankee job to his Met connections through the relationship with Torre he forged when they were both good guys, anyway. I can see being mad at Maz for his actions during that blasted home-and-home doubleheader a few years back, but it sure helped his team. His record in Baltimore didn't speak particularly well for his abilities as a skipper anyhoo, tho he wasn't in a very good situation there.

Frayed Knot Nov 11 2006 04:47 PM

I think there was a time when NYM mgmt didn't seem all that interested in fostering ties to their past. Recently they seem to be almost going overboard in making up for it. Half the '86-era team has been given some sort of job over the last few years. Mazz, even though there was talk about him being a future manager while he was still playing, didn't jump into it immediately. He chose to play on his looks and popularity by doing the stage acting thing for a while plus some other stuff w/his info-tainment host wife (he still with that chick?). Nothing wrong with that of course; hell, it pays a lot more than some Single-A job. He got back in - as Dickshot notes - when his early mgr/mentor/paisan Torre got the reins in Yanqui-land. Thinking that he should have turned that down based on the fact that the fans of the team he came up with wouldn't like it is silly (remember also that the team that nutured him also celebrates the day they traded him as one of it's top turn-around moments). Want to turn him down for "screwing" the Mets by intimidating the ump into making that obstruction call? Fine with me; I don't really care one way or the other if he coaches here. Of course if he wasn't willing to make calls like that then it wouldn't make him a very good coach would he?

SteveJRogers Nov 11 2006 06:10 PM

Frayed Knot wrote: I think there was a time when NYM mgmt didn't seem all that interested in fostering ties to their past. Recently they seem to be almost going overboard in making up for it. Half the '86-era team has been given some sort of job over the last few years. I was about to say that in response to Kase! I think the perception is more geared towards the bigger names in the organizations history, not the Kevin Morgans, Steve Phillips, Blaine Beattys, Randy Niemanns or even Tim Teufels of the world. The fact that there was a frosty relationship more times than not with #41 while the MFY trotted out a virtual HOF gallery every year at OTG (never mind of course the start of said lineup always has all kinds from Jake Gibbs to Kevin Mass returning year after year) and the local media always looks back fondly on the Boys of Summer era Dodgers and Giants as both franchises actually have their NY roots celebrated and trot out old Brooklyn and NY players, lead many to wonder why the Mets don't do the same. Or the argument is always, "Hey we have Joe D, Mick, Whitey and Yogi. The Mets have Ed Kranepool, Mookie Wilson, Jerry Koosman! History? What history?" and that might be part of why the Mets management has been hesitant to reach out as it would look, well, amatureish compared to the Bronx, or even the history the Knicks, and football Giants can provide (leaving the Jets, Rangers, Icelanders, Devils and Nets out of it for, either living on one shinning season, short era or too current (Sorry ABA fans) for a legacy to be built upon)

SteveJRogers Nov 11 2006 06:23 PM

patona314 wrote: talks like a Yankee. Oh BTW, what does this even mean? Willie Randolph spent the better part of his entire career in the Bronx and despite being managed by both Billy Martin and Lou Piniella comes off sounding Torre-esque, in a way "Yankee Like" as you'd put it. Of course that doesn't make sense because Torre, last time I checked, started his soft spoken ways as manager of the Mets 30 years ago! Don't pin this on the Derek Jeter/Joe DiMaggio Athlete-speak that MFY homers say is how a Yankee should be. Thats been going on in the "Athlete as World-Wide Superstar" culture as long as Michael Jordan (last time I checked, never played for the Yankees) started perfecting that way of being back in the 90's, and continues with the Dereks and Tiger Woods of the world. Yes it harkens back to the cold and calculated way of the Joe McCarthy/Joe DiMaggio era (never mind that Lefty Gomez was on that squad and quite a comic) but more often than not that is not how a "Yankee Is" Babe Ruth? Mickey Mantle? Thurman Munson? Reggie Jackson? Billy Martin? Mickey Rivers? Sparky Lyle? Rich Gossage? Yogi Berra? Whitey Ford? Joe Pepitone? Not exactly softspoken, reserved "I'll give you ONLY what I want you to know, but with a little bit of class so you think I'm a press/fan-friendly guy" guys in that group and right down that pinstriped line. The Joe D's, Gehrigs, Mattinglys and Jeters of Yankeeville are actually few and far between. So this "talks like a Yankee" bit is a bit BS.

KC Nov 11 2006 06:24 PM

SJR: >>>why the Mets don't do the same.<<< I don't know who exactly wonders this, the short answer would be (to me) is that because the Mets aren't the Yankees and I don't want the Mets to be like, try to be like, or want their fans to want them to be like, the Yanks.

metirish Nov 11 2006 06:43 PM

It seems to me that this thought that the Mets don't take care of their own stems form Gooden and Strawberry getting " taken care of" by Steinbrenner over the years,it's silly really,Straw is back with the Mets and I've read that Steinbrenner will probably reach out to Gooden again....I've no problem with that,just hope he can help himself this time.

SteveJRogers Nov 11 2006 06:49 PM

="KC"]SJR: >>>why the Mets don't do the same.<<< I don't know who exactly wonders this, the short answer would be (to me) is that because the Mets aren't the Yankees and I don't want the Mets to be like, try to be like, or want their fans to want them to be like, the Yanks. I don't think the wonderment is about the Yankees per se, just a wonderment of why the Mets don't try to reach out the way other organizations (not just the Yanks) do to their past and thats where the perception that the Mets do not do a good job when it comes to ex-Mets comes from. I'd be content if the Mets just had a muesem to hold the HOF busts (or maybe create plaques instead) along with the WS trophies and a truck load of old memoriabillia and interactive stuff (BTW, Mets should give Yance and JD calls for some research for this project) the way the Braves, Reds and Cardinals do at their parks (Actually the Mets should do an NL NY Baseball muesem and leave only the AL crap to stay in the Bronx!) and not feel the need to trot out players like they did in the Payson years or the Yanks do (I think they might be the only ones to do a yearly thing BTW)

OlerudOwned Nov 11 2006 07:19 PM

Acta to Washington is officially official.

metirish Nov 11 2006 07:20 PM

Mets should see what Wally Backman is doing.

cooby Nov 11 2006 07:44 PM

metirish wrote: It seems to me that this thought that the Mets don't take care of their own stems form Gooden and Strawberry getting " taken care of" by Steinbrenner over the years,it's silly really,Straw is back with the Mets and I've read that Steinbrenner will probably reach out to Gooden again....I've no problem with that,just hope he can help himself this time. That's true, say what you want about Steinbrenner, but when those two needed a dad figure that wasn't their own dad, he was there for them and tried.

KC Nov 11 2006 08:14 PM

Didn't Doc and Straw abandon the Mets (on several levels) long before the Mets abandoned them? It's nice to see Straw back on his feet and back. But I don't think applauding Steingrabber as father figure to them (and that the Mets failed to do so some how) is ever gonna fly with me.

Mark Healey Nov 11 2006 08:27 PM

KC wrote: Didn't Doc and Straw abandon the Mets (on several levels) long before the Mets abandoned them? It's nice to see Straw back on his feet and back. But I don't think applauding Steingrabber as father figure to them (and that the Mets failed to do so some how) is ever gonna fly with me. Well, Darryl's always been a guy that the Mets have gotten along better with (and from y experience, is a nicer guy) and Gooden's buddy Ray Negron, is a special advisor to Steinbrenner

Yancy Street Gang Nov 12 2006 07:22 AM

From Newsday: Ken Davidoff wrote: To replace Acta, the Mets could look internally to an option such as Ken Oberkfell, the manager of Triple-A Norfolk, who like Acta could coach the infielders. Or they could look outside; when Willie Randolph first became the Mets' manager two years ago, he spoke with Luis Sojo, then the Yankees' third-base coach, about joining the Mets' staff. Sojo spent 2006 as the manager of the Yankees' Class A affiliate in Tampa.

Edgy DC Nov 13 2006 12:48 PM

SteveJRogers wrote: I think the perception is more geared towards the bigger names in the organizations history, not the Kevin Morgans, Steve Phillips, Blaine Beattys, Randy Niemanns or even Tim Teufels of the world. These are the kinds of guys who take the chump change and try to build a second careeer starting as an A-Ball manager or a roving instructor or if they're lucky as a special assignment scout. How many teams have had a Hall of Famer managing in their lower minor leagues the last two years? The smart guess would be none, but the answer is one. The Mets.

Edgy DC Nov 13 2006 11:08 PM

Joe Girardi is returning to Yankeeland to become the 15th member of the Bomber broadcast team.

DocTee Nov 16 2006 09:31 PM

A's promote bench coach and former MFY backstop Bob Geren to manager...Geren beats Jamie Quirk and Orel Hershiser, and has managed the team's AAA affiliate, giving him a familiarity with many on the club. That's the last opening, I think.

patona314 Nov 16 2006 10:34 PM

KC wrote: Didn't Doc and Straw abandon the Mets (on several levels) long before the Mets abandoned them? It's nice to see Straw back on his feet and back. But I don't think applauding Steingrabber as father figure to them (and that the Mets failed to do so some how) is ever gonna fly with me. they're traitors who went for the all mighty buck. Steingrabber went for a few bucks and got lucky, making our so called wonderboys even more vulnerable. Coney i stll don't understand.

patona314 Nov 16 2006 10:36 PM

patona314 wrote: ="KC"]Didn't Doc and Straw abandon the Mets (on several levels) long before the Mets abandoned them? It's nice to see Straw back on his feet and back. But I don't think applauding Steingrabber as father figure to them (and that the Mets failed to do so some how) is ever gonna fly with me. they're traitors who went for the all mighty buck. Steingrabber went for a few bucks and got lucky, making our so called wonderboys even more vulnerable. Coney i stll don't understand. which brings me to maz..... anyone wanna argue that one?

Edgy DC Nov 16 2006 10:51 PM

I think we all need to get over it. What loyalty exactly did Gooden and Strawberry owe the Mets? The Yankees were offerring work and the Mets weren't. Mazilli was traded by the Mets once and grabbed off waivers from them once. The Yankees offered him a job when the Mets offered him none. He owed the Mets less than nothing.