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Can you imagine?

Edgy DC Oct 04 2006 08:15 PM

How much is DodgerNationOnline pounding third base coach Rich Donnelly tonight? The guy has been a big league coach for 25 years and he may never hear the end of this.

A Boy Named Seo Oct 04 2006 08:20 PM

I never saw a clear replay of Donnelly, but it seems to me he waved Kent in and didn't give Drew his own set of signs, and Drew barrelled towards the plate thinking the sign to keep running was for him. Poor coaching by Donnelly for sure. Still, Drew needs to have some sort of clue with the play developing in front of him. Was he looking down? Trying to find his lady in the stands? How did he have no idea what was going on at the plate?

Zvon Oct 04 2006 08:21 PM

There were afew boo-boos on that play. Kent going back to tag? Even we could see from TV that Green wasnt gonna get to that ball. If Kents half way he scores easily. Drew slowed a bit around third? And his head first slide into home slows him down. If he tries to barrell over LoDuca, I dont know that LoDuke holds on to that ball. Cuz he was just as surprized as you and I that Drew was coming in. You cant lay it all on the coach--he HAD to try to plate Kent. And did he actually wave Drew in? (Im sure Ill see plenty of replays and---maybe he did- then I may amend this.)

Elster88 Oct 04 2006 08:24 PM Re: Can you imagine?

Edgy DC wrote: How much is DodgerNationOnline pounding third base coach Rich Donnelly tonight? Not at all. Folks out west don't like baseball.

metirish Oct 04 2006 08:25 PM

Thankfully Maine was screaming at LoDuca to turn around and get Drew....

metirish Oct 04 2006 08:45 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Oct 04 2006 08:51 PM

On Baseball Tonight Tin Kurkjian is saying that Drew had his head down and ran through the stop sign....and it shows Donnelly certainly was not waving him home.

Zvon Oct 04 2006 08:51 PM

metirish wrote: On Baseball Tonight Tin Kurkin is saying that Drew had his head down and ran through the stop sign....and it shows Donnelly certainly was not waving him home. They also said Kent did the right thing going back to tag---but i dunno--- No way was Green gonna reach that ball- But they have a point that if Kent is out at the plate, thats just one out. The second out by Drew was the big one as far as the Mets getting out of a really big inning by the Dodgers goes. Is that Arizonas Burns on ESPN? Whoever that is, I like his comments. He's good.

metirish Oct 04 2006 08:52 PM

] Is that Arizonas Burns on ESPN? Whoever that is, I like his comments. He's good. yes I thought that was him,Vernon Wells is pretty good too.

Zvon Oct 04 2006 08:55 PM

metirish wrote: ] Is that Arizonas Burns on ESPN? Whoever that is, I like his comments. He's good. yes I thought that was him,Vernon Wells is pretty good too. Is that a fake nose Wells is wearing? Dont they usually have fake glasses attached to em?

metirish Oct 04 2006 09:00 PM

I don't like Eric Byrnes anymore,he jsut declared that he has a "man-love" for Jeter....

A Boy Named Seo Oct 04 2006 09:11 PM

Eh, maybe.

Edgy DC Oct 04 2006 09:31 PM

Dodger Blues self-immolations. http://www.dodgerblues.com//fanforum/nfphpbb/viewtopic.php?t=6703

metirish Oct 04 2006 09:34 PM

Thankfully this place is not like that forum...the user names say it all too.

RealityChuck Oct 04 2006 09:41 PM

That's only the seventh time in MLB history when a catcher tagged out two. The first time in the postseason. See http://members.tripod.com/bb_catchers/catchers/doubletag2.htm Still, sending Kent wasn't that horrible a decision -- I've seen the Mets try things like that all season, daring the other team to make a perfect throw. Looks like the Mets did. But Drew is guilty of abysmal baserunning.

RealityChuck Oct 04 2006 09:43 PM

And it looks like the Mets were once victims, too. And one of the players tagged out was in the dugout today.

Edgy DC Oct 04 2006 09:50 PM

That's a great link. It has the Yankee play I remembered: On 8/2/1985 the White Sox played the Yankees at Yankee Stadium). It was the bottom of the 7th inning with the scored tied 3-3); Andre Robertson (pitcher) singled; Bobby Meacham in to run for Robertson; Dale Berra reached on an error by Tim Hulett (3B). [Meacham to second, Berra to first]; Rickey Henderson singled [Meacham out at home on a throw from Luis Salazar to Ozzie Guillen to Carlton Fisk; Berra on the heels of Meacham was tagged out at home by Fisk]; Fisk tagged both runners at the plate. Don Mattingly flied out to Luis Salazar to end the inning. 0 Runs, 2 Hits, 1 Error, 1 LOB (Henderson). White Sox 3, Yankees 3. Meacham, though, couldn't have gotten sent down to AA, at least not that year, as that was his only year as a fulltimer. Still the best play there happend a month before, with Buck Martinez shining: On July 9, 1985 a game between between the Blue Jays and the Mariners at Seattle. In the Mariners 3rd Phil Bradley was on second when Gorman Thomas singled. Bradley was tagged out at home (on a throw from Jesse Barfield to Buck Martinez in a collision where Martinez breaks his ankle); Buck Martinez, while sitting on the ground in agony, throws to 3B to nab Gorman Thomas. The throw is wild and goes into left field. Gorman Thomas streaks home. George Bell (LF) retrieves the ball and throws it back to Buck Martinez (who is still seated on the ground) who in turn tags Gorman Thomas. Score remains tied 0-0.

Johnny Dickshot Oct 04 2006 10:12 PM

This is out there, but it occurs to me that we CPFers had commented on at least 2 occassions -- I believe 3 -- this year, where LoDuca failed to cleanly handle a throw from his right side and put a tag on a runner at the plate. If you were perceptive enough to consider that to be a "problem" for LoDuca, maybe even a tendency, sending 2 runners home consecutively would be the ultimate exploitation of a hidden weakness. Now, I don;t think the Dodgers did that purposefully, but ask yourself -- which of you who'd really watchged this team this year would have been surprised if not one but 2 runs scored on that play? I wouldnta. Good play Paul.

Edgy DC Oct 04 2006 10:15 PM

If that really can be considered an ongong weakness in his game, the Dodgers would be the team to know about it.

Zvon Oct 04 2006 10:26 PM

Johnny Dickshot wrote: Now, I don;t think the Dodgers did that purposefully, but ask yourself -- which of you who'd really watchged this team this year would have been surprised if not one but 2 runs scored on that play? I wouldnta. Good play Paul. Good point JD. To amend my earlier comments: Drew didnt slow down at all rounding third---from what I see in the replays. I never even saw exactly where the third base coach was, or what he was doing as Drew rounded third- but J.D. was clearly running with his head down (he may have picked up the Kent wave in as him being waved in - they were running pretty close) and wasnt concerned with the third base coach at all. I still think two factors make that play what it became: 1) Kents bad read on the fly and setting to tag- Green was nowhere near that ball. 2) Once Drew was in the position where LoDucas standing there in front of him with the ball, his head first slide was the worst way to approach the plate. Cletes up---or shoulder his way in and try to bowl over Paul---anything was better than head first sliding into the tag. The slide slowed him down and made it an easy tag.

soupcan Oct 04 2006 10:38 PM

Edgy DC wrote: Dodger Blues self-immolations. http://www.dodgerblues.com//fanforum/nfphpbb/viewtopic.php?t=6703 Some funny lines in there inbetween the profanity.

Elster88 Oct 04 2006 10:53 PM

OH MY GOD [url]http://www.dodgerblues.com//fanforum/nfphpbb/viewtopic.php?t=6703&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=29&sid=79d7b2389325bcc2eda50af22891892a[/url] ]B-b-b-but he walks alot!

Edgy DC Oct 04 2006 11:04 PM

Tim Robbins. Excellent.

RealityChuck Oct 04 2006 11:31 PM

Interesting article in the Times about the play. Donnelly says he was going to hold up Kent at third, but when he saw Drew right behind him, he didn't dare, since that would put two Dodgers on third. Not the record for Dodgers on third base*, but still . . . So he had send Kent to the plate. *The classic old-time Dodger play where Babe Herman tripled into a double play and the Dodgers had three baserunners on third.

smg58 Oct 05 2006 09:41 AM

Kent's failure to score from second on a ball off the wall was an abominable mistake, but it was the lesser mistake on that play. Well hey, we get a win out of it, and all that "team of destiny" crap can now stop.

dinosaur jesus Oct 05 2006 09:59 AM

That play doesn't happen if Kent reads the ball properly. The throw might not even have come through, and with the spacing between the runners, Donnelly would have been able to stop Drew. Which doesn't exactly make it Kent's fault, since misjudgments like that happen all the time, and this isn't usually the result.

Johnny Dickshot Oct 05 2006 10:23 AM

I heard this play on the radio while rushing to the subway. If you get a chance, listen to Howie's exquisite call -- just as it happened in mind's eye.

soupcan Oct 05 2006 10:27 AM

="Zvon"]Is that Arizonas Burns on ESPN? Whoever that is, I like his comments. He's good. Yeah but what about how he looked? His hair looks like Nick Nolte's from Nolte's infamous mugshot... ...and what was up with that suit? And that technicolor puke tie? Yeesh.

cooby Oct 05 2006 10:28 AM

Yeah his hair was stunning. Kinda hard to stop staring at

Johnny Dickshot Oct 05 2006 10:37 AM

Byrnes was the head Jeter ballwasher and compared him to Jordan. He's a dummy.

MFS62 Oct 05 2006 10:40 AM

="Johnny Dickshot"]Byrnes was the head Jeter ballwasher and compared him to Jordan. He's a dummy. Lewis Black joke reference. Nice. Later

metirish Oct 05 2006 10:41 AM

I ended up hating Byrnes,Vernon Wells was ok until Zvon pointed out his huge nose,after that all I could do was stare at it.

cooby Oct 05 2006 10:44 AM

Man, I thought I drempt that

Hillbilly Oct 05 2006 10:46 AM

Somewhat lost in this was Green's excellent play on that ball. I was pumped that the first guy was meat, but when Paul tagged out the second guy, I almost wet myself. That play was so unique for so many reasons.

soupcan Oct 05 2006 10:47 AM

="cooby"]Man, I thought I drempt that 'p' is not even close to 'a' on the keyboard, cooby. If that's even what you were trying to spell. Duh.

cooby Oct 05 2006 10:48 AM

I typed that word five times, I swear. Changed it to "dreamed" once and changed it back. So, how do you spell it?

soupcan Oct 05 2006 10:53 AM

'dreamt.' Is it even a word?

cooby Oct 05 2006 10:54 AM

It is here.

RealityChuck Oct 05 2006 10:57 AM

Kent's misjudgment was minor; Drew's was major. Once he saw that Kent was out, then Drew should have gone back to third. It's doubtful Lo Duca would have realized he had a play (Lo Duca said he had no idea what was happening -- couldn't hear his teammates screaming -- and only realized something was up by the way the umpire called the out, like something more was about to happen). And though Donnelly has some justification for sending Kent (he said later he knew Kent would get cut down, but he wanted to stop Drew and have runners on 2nd and 3rd with one out), it would have been smarter to stop him and let the Dodgers have two runners at third. Worst case scenario then: one out, men on 2nd and 3rd. Best case: Drew gets caught in a rundown and Kent scores. One run in, man on second, one out. But that certainly wouldn't have occurred to Donnelly (or anyone) during the play.

Johnny Dickshot Oct 05 2006 11:21 AM

The amazin' gFAFIF suggests the double-play at home erases the karma of the Timo Perez Play in our last Game 1. Isn't that a great thought?

Gwreck Oct 05 2006 12:26 PM

I'd like to think so, and I hate to be the pessimist here, but NLDS Game 1 is not equivalent to WS Game 1.

Yancy Street Gang Oct 05 2006 12:28 PM

It's actually more important, because it's a best of 5 series.