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Look on the bright side

TheOldMole Oct 12 2006 06:45 PM

Remember the last time the Mets brought up a virtual unknown named Perez for the playoffs.

SteveJRogers Oct 12 2006 06:52 PM

Yeah but we all know how that turned out eventually!

metsmarathon Oct 12 2006 07:09 PM

short term gain. works for me.

vtmet Oct 12 2006 07:18 PM

My initial reaction to seeing Perez against the Cards is that...not only does Perez have control issues, but just about every bat in the Cards lineup is RH'd...but if you look at the Cards splits on the year, they have actually hit better against RH pitchers than against LH pitchers (even Pujols, who had a .620 slugging percentage against LH pitchers, had a .688 slugging percentage against RH pitchers)...

Yancy Street Gang Oct 12 2006 07:20 PM

For me the bright side is that to win the series, the Mets don't have to win all seven games. If we can steal one of the games Carpenter starts, we can afford to give back the one that Perez starts.

Frayed Knot Oct 12 2006 07:31 PM

Perez faced the Cards 3 times this year while still w/the Pirates: (W) 6.2 IP, 3 ER, 5 H (L) 5.0 IP, 5 ER, 10 H (L) 7.0 IP, 2 ER, 7 H Looks at a glance like 2 decent outings sandwiched around 1 lousy one

Zvon Oct 12 2006 07:43 PM

Having a pitcher who can bring Perez's stuff is a freakin blessing. Now I only can hope he finds and brings his stuff.

Yancy Street Gang Oct 12 2006 07:47 PM

I hope he can bring his stuff and get people out. I don't care about stuff this month. I care about outs.

ScarletKnight41 Oct 12 2006 07:50 PM

Always Look on the Bright Side of Life (from Monty Python) words and music by Eric Idle Some things in life are bad They can really make you mad Other things just make you swear and curse. When you're chewing on life's gristle Don't grumble, give a whistle And this'll help things turn out for the best... And...always look on the bright side of life... Always look on the light side of life... If life seems jolly rotten There's something you've forgotten And that's to laugh and smile and dance and sing. When you're feeling in the dumps Don't be silly chumps Just purse your lips and whistle - that's the thing. And...always look on the bright side of life... Always look on the light side of life... For life is quite absurd And death's the final word You must always face the curtain with a bow. Forget about your sin - give the audience a grin Enjoy it - it's your last chance anyhow. So always look on the bright side of death Just before you draw your terminal breath Life's a piece of shit When you look at it Life's a laugh and death's a joke, it's true. You'll see it's all a show Keep 'em laughing as you go Just remember that the last laugh is on you. And always look on the bright side of life... Always look on the right side of life... (Come on guys, cheer up!) Always look on the bright side of life... Always look on the bright side of life... (Worse things happen at sea, you know.) Always look on the bright side of life... (I mean - what have you got to lose?) (You know, you come from nothing - you're going back to nothing. What have you lost? Nothing!) Always look on the right side of life...

metirish Oct 12 2006 07:53 PM

>

RealityChuck Oct 12 2006 07:54 PM

I'm guessing that Perez will go at least six innings unless the Mets are on the verge of elimination. Why? For the same reason Willie left Hernandez in during a game where he was getting pounded. Glavine will be coming back on three days rest, so Willie's going to want the bullpen ready to take over early for Tom.

Zvon Oct 12 2006 07:57 PM

Great song choice SK.

ScarletKnight41 Oct 12 2006 08:06 PM

Thanks Z - I'd think of it every time I'd see the thread title :)

Valadius Oct 12 2006 08:07 PM

Same here.

Willets Point Oct 12 2006 10:34 PM

SteveJRogers wrote: Yeah but we all know how that turned out eventually! An NL Pennant.

vtmet Oct 12 2006 11:42 PM

Heilman hasn't pitched since Saturday...yet the 2 guys used tonight in the 8th inning (one in the game, one warming up in the bullpen) were Mota and Bradford? Is Heilman getting ready for a game 3 or 4 start?

Frayed Knot Oct 12 2006 11:50 PM

re: A Heilman start: Highly doubtful.

vtmet Oct 12 2006 11:59 PM

I agree highly doubtful...but at the same time, if Mota can handle the 8th and the rest of the bullpen can be solid...who would you trust more getting a start, Perez or Heilman?

Frayed Knot Oct 13 2006 12:12 AM

When Heilman hasn't pitched more than 2 innings in, what?, over a year now ... Perez.

cleonjones11 Oct 13 2006 12:13 AM

vtmet wrote: I agree highly doubtful...but at the same time, if Mota can handle the 8th and the rest of the bullpen can be solid...who would you trust more getting a start, Perez or Heilman? Tough one...Mota in 8th odd...Heilman must be pissed unless he knows something I can't picture Oliver Perez hanging around more than 4..I hope...Maybe Aaron' gonna pick him up..Just a thought

TheOldMole Oct 13 2006 07:43 AM

I'm figuring there's a reason why the Mets have Heilman in the bullpen, and it's that they've figured out he's better in the bullpen.

Yancy Street Gang Oct 13 2006 08:02 AM

cleonjones11 wrote: Tough one...Mota in 8th odd...Heilman must be pissed unless he knows something My fear was that Heilman has a "tweak."

Frayed Knot Oct 13 2006 09:09 AM

TheOldMole wrote: I'm figuring there's a reason why the Mets have Heilman in the bullpen, and it's that they've figured out he's better in the bullpen. Oddly, this seems to be virtually the last reason fans latch onto.

Gwreck Oct 13 2006 09:49 AM

TheOldMole wrote: I'm figuring there's a reason why the Mets have Heilman in the bullpen, and it's that they've figured out he's better in the bullpen. IIRC, there were rumblings about this last season / the offseason about such, that he'd get too tired too quickly as a starter.

Edgy DC Oct 13 2006 09:56 AM

Why would he be pissed? Is he the only one not down with this whole team thing?

Vic Sage Oct 13 2006 10:04 AM

TheOldMole wrote: I'm figuring there's a reason why the Mets have Heilman in the bullpen, and it's that they've figured out he's better in the bullpen. does anybody know his stats from the 7 starts he made last year? Without having seen them, I'd wager they would indicate a pitcher whose more valuable pitching more innings than Oliver perez or Dave Williams... and probably better than Trax, too.

Yancy Street Gang Oct 13 2006 10:10 AM

Heilman's first 8 games in 2005. It includes all 7 of his starts. The May 5 game was in relief. Aaron Heilman 2005 Regular Season Game Log - Pitching Date Team Decision IP H R ER BB SO BOX 04/09/05 vs. Braves L 5.0 8 5 5 0 3 BOX 04/15/05 vs. Marlins W 9.0 1 0 0 3 7 BOX 04/20/05 vs. Marlins L 4.0 11 7 7 1 3 BOX 04/25/05 vs. Braves W 7.0 2 1 1 1 5 BOX 05/01/05 vs. Nationals ND 6.0 4 3 3 5 5 BOX 05/05/05 vs. Phillies W 3.1 1 0 0 1 5 BOX 05/09/05 vs. Cubs ND 5.1 5 2 2 2 4 BOX 05/15/05 vs. Cardinals L 5.2 7 4 4 1 7

Edgy DC Oct 13 2006 10:12 AM

He had some great starts last year, and some blowups. http://www.retrosheet.org/boxesetc/Lheila0010032005.htm People seem more inclined to recall the former.

Rotblatt Oct 13 2006 10:22 AM

Edgy DC wrote: He had some great starts last year, and some blowups. http://www.retrosheet.org/boxesetc/Lheila0010032005.htm People seem more inclined to recall the former. True enough, but I think it's plausible that over the rest of the season, he became a better pitcher--not just a better reliever. And he also rocked the winter leagues as a starter. It's clear the dude's got potential, either way, and maybe next year, we'll be able to give him a chance. If we've got Mota, Sanchez & Wagner in the pen, Heilman would just sprinkles on the icing on the cake if he pitched from the bullpen, whereas he could be a key part of our rotation, especially with Petey out for at least half the season. I don't think we can start him in Game 5 unless the plan is to use him for 3 innings. I don't see how he could be stretched out enough for more than that. Personally, I'd rather start Oliver and go to Heilman for 3 whenever he's needed.

Gwreck Oct 13 2006 10:24 AM

That 3.1 inning stint against the Phillies wasn't a start. The numbers are promising I think for him as a starter but I'm still down with keeping him in the 'pen. Worth reevaluating next ST.

Vic Sage Oct 13 2006 10:27 AM

so the Mets won 4 of his 7 starts, and his line was 42 IP / 38h / 13bb /35k / 22er over those starts, which is roughly about a 4.71 era and a 1.21 whip, with a K:BB ratio of 2.7:1. I would take that over Perez, Williams and even Trax. Of course, he's been in the pen all year and hasn't been stretched out to go 5+ innings, so its a moot point. But i don't agree that he's necessarily more valuable to the Mets as a guy throwing 80 IP than he would throwing 180 IP, especially now that Willie is going with Mota as a setup guy, and with Sanchez likely coming back next season.

Edgy DC Oct 13 2006 10:54 AM

Rotblatt wrote: True enough, but I think it's plausible that over the rest of the season, he became a better pitcher--not just a better reliever. And he also rocked the winter leagues as a starter. It's more than plausible. But as his relief ERA was 46% of his starter ERA, I don't think the Mets position has shown itself to be all that crazy. And I wanted him starting also. Next year, they'll have al lot of options for the eighth. We'll see where it goes. But, even during the brief Lima era, the Mets were never as starter desperate as we (and I include myself here) were. I think the nature of establising a pitcher is that they try you here where there's a need, they try you there where there's another need, and the first place you flourish, they try and move you as little as possible from that spot. It's superstitious, in a way, I guess.

Willets Point Oct 13 2006 10:59 AM

Edgy DC wrote: He had some great starts last year, and some blowups. http://www.retrosheet.org/boxesetc/Lheila0010032005.htm People seem more inclined to recall the former. Really? I remember this one: 04/15/05 vs. Marlins W 9.0 1 0 0 3 7

Edgy DC Oct 13 2006 11:01 AM

My point.

Willets Point Oct 13 2006 11:40 AM

Dumbass. I confused former for latter.

TheOldMole Oct 13 2006 12:21 PM

I don't think last year's starting numbers are all that important. Here's another theory -- Peterson and Randolph have seen something in Heliman's mechanics, delivery, mind set, biorhythm, astrological sign, that has convinced them his strongest role is in the bullpen. Conceivably, they may even be right. Here's the best way to test this. We set up two parallel universes. In one of them, Heilman stays with the Mets with a nice fat contract extension, remains a setup man for a couple more years, then replaces Wagner as closer, makes New Yorkers forget Mariano Rivera, and goes to the Hall of Fame as a Met. In the other, he gets traded to another team that installs him as a starter, and we see what happens. Now, in one of these parallel universes, I win the Nobel Prize for literature. I just have to figure out which one.

Yancy Street Gang Oct 13 2006 12:36 PM

I've been looking for the parallel universe where I discover the secret to how to create parallel universes. Once I do that, I'll get started on the Heilman Project. (Wasn't that a Robert Ludlum novel?)

soupcan Oct 13 2006 01:07 PM

No, you're thinking of the 'Heidemann Weekend'.

Frayed Knot Oct 13 2006 01:18 PM

]Here's another theory -- Peterson and Randolph have seen something in Heliman's mechanics, delivery, mind set, biorhythm, astrological sign, that has convinced them his strongest role is in the bullpen. Conceivably, they may even be right. I don't think I brought up the biorhythms or astrology, but I did once ask (NYDN beat reporter) Adam Rubin via a radio talk show whether he thought the NYM brass was keeping Heilman out of the rotation because they were so concerned with building from their pen on out, or because they were skeptical of his probable success as a starter -- and his view was essentially; 'all of the above' Maybe (thinking back also to JW Seo) Peterson just isn't a great believer that a hurler armed only w/a fastball-change combo has enough to succeed over the long haul & in multiple times thru the lineup.

Edgy DC Oct 13 2006 01:31 PM

Conceivably, he may even be right.

Willets Point Oct 14 2006 09:54 PM

Traschel didn't have too high a pitch count, so if the Mets need a pitcher bad in an upcoming game... Well, I guess that's a mixed bag, but something to think about a la Tim Wakefield 2004.

Elster88 Oct 14 2006 09:55 PM

Willets Point wrote: Traschel didn't have too high a pitch count, so if the Mets need a pitcher bad in an upcoming game... I think you meant "if the Mets need a bad pitcher in an upcoming game".

Willets Point Oct 14 2006 09:57 PM

You're not looking on the bright side.

Willets Point Oct 14 2006 09:57 PM

Okay here's something we can cling to: These are the Cardinals, they're managed by LaRussa. Somehow he will screw this up.

Rotblatt Oct 14 2006 10:55 PM

Darren Oliver's yeoman effort means that Willie can pull a quick hook on Perez if necessary tomorrow, and despite last night's blip, our pen is pretty fucking good, and everyone but Oliver & Robo should be available. In the second inning, I figured us for screwed tomorrow without a dominant performance by Perez. Oliver has given us a chance even with a poor performance.

Willets Point Oct 14 2006 10:57 PM

Thank you Rotty. It's just game 3 of a 7-game series. We've got one win under our belts and the other three will be won somehow. This is far from over.

Rotblatt Oct 14 2006 11:01 PM

Willets Point wrote: This is far from over. Hells yeah! St. Louis has gotten a lot of breaks tonight. Balls hit hard but right at someone, Trachs walking the park, poor defense by Green . . . It's not like they're dominating us out there.

Rotblatt Oct 14 2006 11:23 PM

Tomorrow night's starter Reyes strikes out more batters at home (9.31/9 innings), but he also allows more walks (4.06 per 9 innings) and home runs (1.90 per 9 innings). Overall, an ERA of 4.78 ERA at home. Oliver Perez in September/October 2006: 4.39 ERA, 1.29 WHIP, 10.03 K/9, 3.14 BB/9, 1.57 HR/9

metirish Oct 14 2006 11:25 PM

iI still believe...Perez this is your time to become a Mets legend...like Bobby Jones.

Johnny Dickshot Oct 14 2006 11:39 PM

Y'know, we really don't need Oliver Perez to become a legend. We need him to go ~6 innings, and allow ~4 runs or less. The other 2 things we need: 1) Make the plays behind him (his K's will help some but as we've seen the last 2 nights if you don;t make the plays behind a shaky starting pitcher, you stand a great chance of losing). 2) Hit a lot more.

TransMonk Oct 14 2006 11:42 PM

Darren Oliver: my lastest Mets hero.

cooby Oct 15 2006 12:17 AM

Tomorrow's another day, and our Metsies are all in bed resting up for it right now!

cooby Oct 15 2006 12:20 AM

Here's to both of them

cleonjones11 Oct 15 2006 12:58 AM

Do the Oliver Twist...Good luck Oliver in the biggest game of your career and mine as a Metsie. Baby steps....Baby steps...Baby Steps.......Bill Murray..What about Bob.

cooby Oct 15 2006 01:08 AM

Hey, look who the cat dragged in

cleonjones11 Oct 15 2006 02:40 AM

cooby wrote: Hey, look who the cat dragged in Ironically I had to put my beloved cat Koko to sleep yesterday...Mets don't seem so..so.. important right now..Maybe in a few days...

HahnSolo Oct 15 2006 10:19 AM

Johnny Dickshot wrote: 1) Make the plays behind him (his K's will help some but as we've seen the last 2 nights if you don;t make the plays behind a shaky starting pitcher, you stand a great chance of losing). JD makes a good point here. Think about the Cards last two nights. I can think of some plays where it looked like a hit off the bat, but their guys were in position to make plays. I'm specifically thinking of Eckstein and Belliard making plays on the other side of second base. Meanwhile, on Spiezio's triple I think Green was playing in Kansas, and on the foul pop that Endy couldn't grab, where exactly was he? Those two balls had a lot of air time.

Yancy Street Gang Oct 15 2006 10:57 AM

Endy got to the foul pop in time to catch it, and he would have if he hadn't had to avoid stepping on Wright. I don't fault Wright for being there. They both made their best efforts and got in each other's way. But it turned out Endy had the better play on the ball.

Johnny Dickshot Oct 15 2006 11:03 AM

Not really his fault, but Wright interfered with Endy on that play. Green's dive was simply a matter of poor concentration for a catchable ball. Either way it forced Trax, bad as he was, to get 5 outs in the first inning instead of 3. On Friday Maine made things difficult by walking the leadoff guy, but a potential out, maybe two gets booted and suddenly our lead's not so safe. We just don;t have enough pitching, or THAT good an offense, to make goofs in the field. It's the one thing that we need in the absense of a shut-down pitcher.

Edgy DC Oct 15 2006 12:21 PM

If things don't change, this may be known as the series of balls Shawn Green juuuust missed. Somebody ransom David Wright.

HahnSolo Oct 15 2006 12:30 PM

OK, let's look at the bright side a little bit. The last pitcher before Oliver Perez to get a start in the postseason after finishing 10 games below .500 during the regular season was Albie Lopez in 2001. They also had one other thing in common: both Lopez and Perez were acquired via trade during the season. So what's the bright side? Lopez's team, the Diamondbacks of Arizona, went on to win the World Series. So there's hope! Let's go out there, kick ass, and win ballgames. Because I really don't want to spend the next three months thinking "woulda, coulda, shoulda" about injuries if they lose.

soupcan Oct 15 2006 01:16 PM

I don't need to rely on Albie Freakin' Lopez. It's not 10-0 Cardinals in the 9th inning of the 4th game in a series that they are up 3-0. Mets win tonight, its 2-2 and at the least we're guaranteed games back at Shea. Who predicted Cards in in 6? I know I did. That means the Cards would win 2 games in this series. Guess what? They have. This is the playoffs, its not easy, teams don't necessarily just ride a broomstick through them. Maybe if Pedro & Duque were healthy but they're not so our little team has to scratch and claw a bit. The Mets were the best team in baseball this season, lets not forget that. Down 2-1 and its doom and gloom around here. Does ANYBODY remember 1986? Anyone? I mean jeez Louise, THAT was a time you could start to cry in your soup. I was sitting on a couch face in hands and I could feel the tears welling up. This? This is nuthin'. Get it together people. Reyes is hitting, Wright is due, Delgado's on a mission, Perez has something to prove. These guys don't want to go home just yet.

cooby Oct 15 2006 01:36 PM

Do you still have that couch?!?! Maybe it's the lucky couch we have all been seeking!

SteveJRogers Oct 15 2006 01:41 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Oct 15 2006 02:38 PM

Post's not pinin'! 'post's passed on! This Post is no more! It has ceased to be! 'it's expired and gone to meet 'is maker! 'it's a stiff! Bereft of life, it rests in peace! If it hadn't been nailed to the fourm it'd be pushing up the daisies! 'Its metabolic processes are now 'istory! 'It's off the twig! 'It's kicked the bucket, 'it's shuffled off 'is mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisibile!! THIS IS AN EX-POST!

SteveJRogers Oct 15 2006 01:42 PM

And a little pearl of widsom from The Carter Family There's a dark & a troubled side of life There's a bright, there's a sunny side, too Tho' we meet with the darkness and strife The sunny side we also may view Keep on the sunny side, always on the sunny side, Keep on the sunny side of life It will help us ev'ry day, it will brighten all the way If we'll keep on the sunny side of life The storm and its fury broke today, Crushing hopes that we cherish so dear; Clouds and storms will, in time, pass away The sun again will shine bright and clear. Let us greet with the song of hope each day Tho' the moment be cloudy or fair Let us trust in our Saviour away Who keepeth everyone in His care

metirish Oct 15 2006 02:20 PM

] Y'know, we really don't need Oliver Perez to become a legend. We need him to go ~6 innings, and allow ~4 runs or less. I'll be more than happy with that.

Edgy DC Oct 15 2006 02:21 PM

We just made RMPL history.

metirish Oct 15 2006 02:21 PM

How so Edgy?

metirish Oct 15 2006 02:25 PM

Perez on the game. ] "This game is no different than any other. All I have to do is relax and throw strikes."

Edgy DC Oct 15 2006 02:26 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Oct 15 2006 05:22 PM

We're posting on page four song lyrics that were already posted, celebrated, and video linked on page one of the same thread.

SteveJRogers Oct 15 2006 02:40 PM

Has been edited with relief help from Mr. John Cleese Whole new meaning to RMPL...

soupcan Oct 15 2006 05:13 PM

cooby wrote: Do you still have that couch?!?! Maybe it's the lucky couch we have all been seeking! It was in my college apartment and, alas, it is long gone. Great memories of that couch though. Sigh.

cooby Oct 15 2006 05:16 PM

Sounds to me like you did a lot of sitting alone crying on it

Willets Point Oct 15 2006 07:27 PM

Hey, before that Dodgers series the Mets have never really done things easy in the postseason, whether they end up winning or losing. I expect this series to go 6 or 7 games.

cooby Oct 18 2006 08:15 AM

The Mets will win the Pennant on their home field

Iubitul Oct 18 2006 09:12 AM

cooby wrote: The Mets will win the Pennant on their home field from your keyboard to God's eyes... I still feel certain that they will pull it off...

cooby Oct 18 2006 09:13 AM

me too! :)

cleonjones11 Oct 18 2006 09:48 AM

cooby wrote: me too! :) Me three....we need an early brawl and make Shea a cold nasty drunken pit

MFS62 Oct 18 2006 10:02 AM

The sun'll come out Tomorrow Bet your bottom dollar That tomorrow There'll be sun! Just thinkin' about Tomorrow Clears away the cobwebs, And the sorrow 'Til there's none! When I'm stuck a day That's gray, And lonely, I just stick out my chin And Grin, And Say, Oh! The sun'll come out Tomorrow So ya gotta hang on 'Til tomorrow Come what may Tomorrow! Tomorrow! I love ya Tomorrow! You're always A day A way! Later

ScarletKnight41 Oct 18 2006 10:03 AM

I hat you.

MFS62 Oct 18 2006 10:13 AM

ScarletKnight41 wrote: I hat you. Doesn't that kind of comment belong in the "deflation" thread? Anti-Annie? What are you, a Yankee fan? Later

ScarletKnight41 Oct 18 2006 10:15 AM

My daughter was in a high school production of Annie two years ago. I have heard that song often enough to last ten lifetimes. In fact, I was talking to a friend yesterday, whose daughter is auditioning for her school musical. The first words of advice out of my mouth were, "Don't let her sing Tomorrow." Enough is enough with that song!

MFS62 Oct 18 2006 10:17 AM

Gotcha'. Its like I feel about Its a Small World. I have felt your pain. :) Later

Yancy Street Gang Oct 18 2006 10:18 AM

We could all sing I've Never Been to Me

MFS62 Oct 18 2006 10:21 AM

BTW, Scarlet. Because of your explanation, I take back calling you a Yankee fan. Later

ScarletKnight41 Oct 18 2006 10:51 AM

As well you should - that was nasty and uncalled for!

MFS62 Oct 18 2006 10:55 AM

ScarletKnight41 wrote: As well you should - that was nasty and uncalled for! I know, I know. That's why I apologized. We're all a little uneasy these days. Check your PMs. Later

ScarletKnight41 Oct 18 2006 11:00 AM

Gotcha