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2007 Pitching Rotation Hot Stove Conversation

MFS62 Oct 19 2006 10:30 AM

Edgy DC wrote: This also seems to be pattern with Omar Minaya, with his 1-for-2 deals: get a major leaguer you're going to punch in right away for better or for worse and get a prospect who has trended in the wrong direction, has fallen out of his team's favor, and can take his time in Norfolk (New Orleans) and benefit from a new organization with new coaches and turn himself around. Perez and Maine are our third and fourth starters right now, but both were the second guys in the deal when we got them. Minaya seems to know how to divide his eggs in multiple baskets. Good points. Some thoughts: Didn't Omar shake up the scouting staff since he's been the GM? It seems they are now looking at possible acquisitions from the standpoints of can his problem be fixed? and can we be the ones to fix it? All it took for Mota to be effective again was moving him to the other side of the rubber. Perez was helped by telling him to go back to his old style of throwing (use the fastball more). And the fact that Omar is asking for those types of players (with future up sides) in deals shows me that the Mets are no longer the kind of team that always has to throw lots of prospects into deals just to obtain a quick fix kind of player and nothing else. Omar has been doing his homework. (Yes, they gave up prospects for Delgado , but I don't regard him as a "quick fix"/ one year rental.) Yes, Perez and Maine are our fourth starters now. And next year they may be joined in the rotation by Humber and/or Pelfrey and/or Bannister. That brings to mind the O's "Baby Bird" rotations of the 60's, the Mets rotations of the 80's and the Tigers' rotation this year. Each staff had an experienced lefty (Cuellar, Ojeda, Rogers). And Glavine can fill that role in 2007 for the Mets. This could be the start of something good. Later

Yancy Street Gang Oct 19 2006 10:39 AM

I can guarantee you that the Mets won't go into 2007 with a rotation of Glavine and four kids. They're going to add at least one experienced starter (Schmidt, Zito, or the Japanese guy), and may retain Orlando Hernandez as well. Maine will probably be in the rotation, which would leave Bannister, Perez, Pelfrey, Humber, and whoever else competing for just one spot.

MFS62 Oct 19 2006 10:46 AM

I know it probably won't happen. But I can dream. I have to. I'm a Mets fan. Later

Yancy Street Gang Oct 19 2006 11:02 AM

I don't share that dream. I don't want the Mets to follow up this terrific season with a rotation of a 41-year-old and a bunch of unproven kids. I'd like to do this postseason thing again in 2007.

Edgy DC Oct 19 2006 11:07 AM

Let's move away from the hornillo caliente for now. Big game tonight.

metsmarathon Oct 19 2006 11:09 AM

if the kids do well, its a nice dream. now turn off those burners.

Valadius Oct 19 2006 11:11 AM

You gotta leave a spot open for Pedro though.

metsmarathon Oct 19 2006 11:16 AM

he can bump whoever struggles. you build the rotation without him, and when he comes back and can pitch effectively, he's a bonus. going forward, act like he's not there, until he is.

Centerfield Oct 19 2006 12:59 PM

I agree with Yancy and marathon.

RealityChuck Oct 19 2006 01:18 PM

Yancy Street Gang wrote: I can guarantee you that the Mets won't go into 2007 with a rotation of Glavine and four kids. They're going to add at least one experienced starter (Schmidt, Zito, or the Japanese guy), and may retain Orlando Hernandez as well. Maine will probably be in the rotation, which would leave Bannister, Perez, Pelfrey, Humber, and whoever else competing for just one spot. Most likely: Glavine, Hernandez, Maine, Perez, Bannister. Pelfrey and Humber need one more year in the minors. Bannister gets sent down once Pedro returns.

Yancy Street Gang Oct 19 2006 01:40 PM

Chuck, you're not allowing a spot for a veteran aquisition. I'm sure there will be one.

metsmarathon Oct 19 2006 01:51 PM

RealityChuck wrote: ="Yancy Street Gang"]I can guarantee you that the Mets won't go into 2007 with a rotation of Glavine and four kids. They're going to add at least one experienced starter (Schmidt, Zito, or the Japanese guy), and may retain Orlando Hernandez as well. Maine will probably be in the rotation, which would leave Bannister, Perez, Pelfrey, Humber, and whoever else competing for just one spot. Most likely: Glavine, Hernandez, Maine, Perez, Bannister. Pelfrey and Humber need one more year in the minors. Bannister gets sent down once Pedro returns. i'd retain hernandez as well, and try to bring in one of the best arms out there into the team. assuming duque doesnt show his age just yet, i would most pencil maine in as making the team next year, with perez and bannister duking it out for the final spot. perez has more upside, but needs to show next ST that he can harness it consistently to make the rotation. seriously. turn the stove off.

RealityChuck Oct 19 2006 02:09 PM

Yancy Street Gang wrote: Chuck, you're not allowing a spot for a veteran aquisition. I'm sure there will be one. If we get someone, great. If not, I'd be happy with the rotation I mentioned.

Johnny Dickshot Oct 19 2006 04:47 PM

This discussion is about as relevant as the OJ book today.

Willets Point Oct 19 2006 05:03 PM

This discussion split from the Kris Benson/John Maine Trade Tracker thread. And by Hot Stove, we mean continue this after the Mets season ends.

MFS62 Oct 19 2006 06:10 PM

That's funny. I don't remember starting this thread. :) Thanks for breaking it off, WP. Didn't mean to hijack that other theread. Later

Willets Point Oct 19 2006 07:20 PM

Thanks for being a good sport. It was hard to figure where to split the thread since the first half of your post is relevant to the original thread.

metsmarathon Oct 19 2006 11:45 PM

so. perez in the rotation next year?

Valadius Oct 19 2006 11:49 PM

Absolutely.

Nymr83 Oct 19 2006 11:50 PM

not based on one start. barring a signing he's almost certainly in, even with one i'd consider him the favorite in ST for the last spot.

Yancy Street Gang Oct 19 2006 11:57 PM

metsmarathon wrote: so. perez in the rotation next year? He's a stronger candidate than he was a few hours ago.

RealityChuck Oct 20 2006 08:49 AM

I always felt Perez was a strong candidate. The postseason only makes him stronger. Until Pelfrey is ready (and I think he probably needs another year in the minors), he's got the most heat on the staff, and once he breaks his bad habits from Pittsburgh, he can be great. The Mets desperately need a pitcher or two who can throw heat (if only in contrast to their other finesse pitchers), and Perez certainly will do. BTW, let's put a rest to the story that Perez was a throw-in. Minyana kept trying to wrest him from the Pirates, but they wanted Nady and Omar wouldn't trade Nady him one-for-one. Once Sanchez was hurt, Omar went back and asked them to throw in Bert to make the deal. I really like the team's young pitchers, but for 2008, when both Pelfrey and Humber should be ready.

MFS62 Oct 20 2006 09:45 AM

Acording to this Morning's Daily News, the Mets eligible for arbitration are: Ramon Castro Endy Chavez Oliver Perez Duanier Sanchez Victor Zambrano Dave Williams No mention on who will be a free agent, nor did they mention players who have an option (player, team or mutual). From that list above, who do you offer arby to? Who do you let become free agents? Later

Yancy Street Gang Oct 20 2006 09:57 AM

I'd try to keep the first four, and I'd let the last two slip away.

metsmarathon Oct 20 2006 10:00 AM

the first four are easy. somewhere in teh back of my head is a whisper that zambrano has some inherent upside, but i think i'll be shouting that whisper down for a while. maybe we can trade him to the yankees for arod... they're hot after zambrano, right?

Edgy DC Oct 20 2006 10:07 AM

Zambrano may indeed. But that upside is not worth an arbitration award.

Rotblatt Oct 20 2006 10:07 AM

Yes to everyone but Zambrano, whom I think would be set to make a lot more than the rest. Williams is no great shakes, but he'd be decent insurance if he doesn't cost a whole lot. If Zambrano were cheap, I'd keep him to, but I think he'll cost a couple mil. As for Perez, I think he's a strong contender, along with Maine, but I'd like to give Humber & Pelfrey real shots in April.

Rotblatt Oct 20 2006 10:11 AM

I'm not sure I want to retain El Duque. He was decent for us, but I think I'd rather give a kid a shot. I'm thinking: New Acquisition - Glavine - Maine - Perez - Bannister/Heilman/Pelfrey/Humber I think it's more likely, though, that we try to acquire two starting pitchers, and end up bumping one of Maine or Perez from the rotation. Which would be a shame, IMO.

Elster88 Oct 20 2006 10:13 AM

]BTW, let's put a rest to the story that Perez was a throw-in. Minyana kept trying to wrest him from the Pirates, but they wanted Nady and Omar wouldn't trade Nady him one-for-one. Once Sanchez was hurt, Omar went back and asked them to throw in Bert to make the deal I never once heard the story described this way. Not even remotely. I can't take it just on your say-so. When and where did Omar say this?

metsmarathon Oct 20 2006 10:18 AM

i'd keep duque (what's his contractual status anyways) just as an insurance policy, myself. Pelfry & Humber almost surely will not be ready for prime time, and it gives us some backup in case maine and/or perez and/or bannister regress. and unfortunately, i don't see heilman making the leap into the rotation. well, maybe. the only way i don't see bringing back el duque as a good move is if we bring in two good veterans instead of one. and there's just no way i hold open a slot for pedro. if he comes back next year, we deal with it then. i'm not spending all of next year thinking "when petey comes back, we'll get this rotation straightened out!"

Elster88 Oct 20 2006 10:18 AM

Edgy DC wrote: Perez was helped by telling him to go back to his old style of throwing (use the fastball more). I infer from this that somewhere along the line someone tried to adjust Perez's pitching style AFTER his 200 K in 170 IP season. If true, it's fucking amazing. From Doc to Perez, it's been 20 years of pitching coaches adjusting young phenom pitchers AWAY from what makes them great. I wonder what Seattle's staff did to fuck up Felix Hernandez this year. PS: What's the plural of phenom? Phena? Phenoms?

metsmarathon Oct 20 2006 10:19 AM

phenoms.

Edgy DC Oct 20 2006 10:20 AM

I kind of look at Perez and Robo as co-requisites. Minaya likely wanted them both for different but equal reasons. When Mota starting performing, Roberto soon became the lesser important part of that deal. Minaya was probably delighted that the Perez half of the acquisition was downplayed to some extent, taking the pressure off of him, Peterson, and Perez to make something of the deal.

Edgy DC Oct 20 2006 10:21 AM

Elster88 wrote: ="Edgy DC"] Perez was helped by telling him to go back to his old style of throwing (use the fastball more). No, Edgy DC did not.

MFS62 Oct 20 2006 10:22 AM

="Elster88"] ="Edgy DC"] Perez was helped by telling him to go back to his old style of throwing (use the fastball more). I infer from this that somewhere along the line someone tried to adjust Perez's pitching style AFTER his 200 K in 170 IP season.If true, it's fucking amazing. From Doc to Perez, it's been 20 years of pitching coaches adjusting young phenom pitchers AWAY from what makes them great. Yep, from the stories we read when the Mets got Perez, that's exactly what happened. The Bucs tried to get him to throw more breaking pitches and take some speed off his fastball in order to improve his control. They felt he was throwing too many pitches at a young age and were fearful about the long term impact on his arm. Later

Elster88 Oct 20 2006 10:25 AM

Edgy DC wrote: ="Elster88"] Edgy DC wrote: Perez was helped by telling him to go back to his old style of throwing (use the fastball more). No, Edgy DC did not. My apologies. When cutting text out after hitting the quote button on the first thread in this post, I kept your name as the quotee when it should've been 62.

Rotblatt Oct 20 2006 10:26 AM

My understanding is that the main difference was tightening up Perez's delivery by tweaking his mechanics. Either way, the dude was on last night. He was throwing lots of strikes with nasty stuff. I have to say, having two 25-year olds who throw in the mid 90's feels pretty good. At least, it feels good when they throw strikes.

Elster88 Oct 20 2006 10:26 AM

="MFS62"] ="Elster88"] ="MFS62"] Perez was helped by telling him to go back to his old style of throwing (use the fastball more). I infer from this that somewhere along the line someone tried to adjust Perez's pitching style AFTER his 200 K in 170 IP season.If true, it's fucking amazing. From Doc to Perez, it's been 20 years of pitching coaches adjusting young phenom pitchers AWAY from what makes them great. Yep, from the stories we read when the Mets got Perez, that's exactly what happened. The Bucs tried to get him to throw more breaking pitches and take some speed off his fastball in order to improve his control. They felt he was throwing too many pitches at a young age and were fearful about the long term impact on his arm. Later So basically the same thing that f'ed up Doc (besides coke). Those pitching coaches surely are geniuses.

metsmarathon Oct 20 2006 10:30 AM

hey, i'm kinda liking ours right now...

MFS62 Oct 20 2006 10:44 AM

In case anyone's interested, Jeff Suppan will be a free agent after this season. ducking Later

Yancy Street Gang Oct 20 2006 10:47 AM

Ducking from what? I'd be interested. Or are the Cardinals the new Braves, and anyone who wore the uniform is unforgivable? Let's not start that crap all over again.

MFS62 Oct 20 2006 11:03 AM

Yancy Street Gang wrote: Ducking from what? I'd be interested. Or are the Cardinals the new Braves, and anyone who wore the uniform is unforgivable? Let's not start that crap all over again. Nothing to do with his team. He's basically a .500 career pitcher without spectacular stuff who had a memorable series. Ducking because I expected a cascade of NOs. Later

Vic Sage Oct 20 2006 11:19 AM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Oct 20 2006 11:21 AM

"no" to suppan. happy? 1. _______ 2. Glavine 3. Maine 4. O.Perez 5. El Duque / Pedro (Duque to pen if/when Pedro comes back) If we don't sign a front-line SPer, then everybody moves up one and either Heilman (unlikely) or Bannister is the 5th SPer until Pedro comes back. Wagner Sanchez Heilman Feliciano Mota Bradford D.Oliver If they're only going to spend money on 1 big FA acquisition, at this point i'd prefer they go for a corner OFer or 2bman (soriano?) than any of the available SPers.

seawolf17 Oct 20 2006 11:21 AM

I would be okay if they offered Dave Williams arbitration. Never hurts to have a lefty emergency starter in AAA.

Vic Sage Oct 20 2006 11:24 AM

Ramon Castro - no. backup catchers are a dime-a-dozen. Endy Chavez - yes. i think he's turned a corner, offensively. He's an excellent 4th OFer. Oliver Perez - yes, absolutely. Duanier Sanchez - yes, i think. he was unhittable 1st half of season. Victor Zambrano - no. lets just bury the past and move on. Dave Williams - maybe. i'm not enamored of him, but if he's cheap enough.

MFS62 Oct 20 2006 11:25 AM

Free agents at all positions: http://www.mlb4u.com/freeagency.php Get 'em while they're hot. Later

DocTee Oct 20 2006 11:27 AM

Aren't Mota/Sanchez/Heilman a bit repetitious in the pen? Seems to me they (can) do a lot of the same stuff, especially when it comes to matchups, etc.

Yancy Street Gang Oct 20 2006 11:30 AM

Maybe, but they get guys out. Having three guys who get guys out is a good thing, especially when you have to go to the bullpen in the fifth or sixth inning.

Vic Sage Oct 20 2006 11:43 AM

Yancy Street Gang wrote: Maybe, but they get guys out. Having three guys who get guys out is a good thing, especially when you have to go to the bullpen in the fifth or sixth inning. amen

Vic Sage Oct 20 2006 11:49 AM

I'll take Carlos Lee or Soriano in LF, and maybe Gil Meche for the rotation.

Valadius Oct 20 2006 12:01 PM

Please, let's not forget one big reason behind this team's success: its chemistry. A Soriano has the potential to disrupt that chemistry. We have to take that into account.

seawolf17 Oct 20 2006 12:06 PM

Do we have Bradford signed for next year?

Vic Sage Oct 20 2006 12:10 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Oct 20 2006 12:11 PM

]Please, let's not forget one big reason behind this team's success: its chemistry. A Soriano has the potential to disrupt that chemistry. We have to take that into account. he went 40/40 in a pitcher's park. I'd be happy to take that and let Willie worry about the chemistry. Besides, with Delgado, Green, LoDuca, Reyes and Wright, around, i'm not too worried about Soriano getting too out of line. If he's on a winning team, he's unlikely to turn into terrell owens.

Vic Sage Oct 20 2006 12:11 PM

seawolf17 wrote: Do we have Bradford signed for next year? no, he's a FA.

MFS62 Oct 20 2006 12:17 PM

Vic Sage wrote: I'll take Carlos Lee or Soriano in LF, and maybe Gil Meche for the rotation. I'd be very ok with that. As for Soriano, I think I read that Sori and Randolph had a very good relationship when they were both with the Yankees. Willie may even been his mentor. If true, that could make him a better Met than some might be afraid of if he does sign here. Vic, if Lee (LF)and Soriano (2b) are both added to the current lineup, I'll fight you to see who gets that open starting pitcher's spot. :) Later

RealityChuck Oct 20 2006 01:05 PM

="Elster88"] ]BTW, let's put a rest to the story that Perez was a throw-in. Minyana kept trying to wrest him from the Pirates, but they wanted Nady and Omar wouldn't trade Nady him one-for-one. Once Sanchez was hurt, Omar went back and asked them to throw in Bert to make the deal I never once heard the story described this way. Not even remotely. I can't take it just on your say-so. When and where did Omar say this? Quoted by Murray Chass in today's Times (bolding added): http://tinyurl.com/trmd5 ]•Maine came to the Mets with Jorge Julio from Baltimore for Kris Benson in the off-season, and Pérez came from Pittsburgh with Roberto Hernández for Xavier Nady on July 31. Neither Maine nor Pérez was an accidental acquisition. “I was talking to the Pirates for a while about Oliver Pérez,” Minaya said. “Oliver Pérez was the opening-day starter for the Pirates. I’m of the belief that left-handers take longer to develop.” In 2004 Perez had a 12-10 record and a 2.98 earned run average for the Pirates and struck out 239 in 196 innings. But he followed that performance with a poor season and a half for the Pirates and was back in the minor leagues when the Mets lost Sánchez for the season in a taxicab accident. They needed a substitute relief pitcher, and Minaya identified Roberto Hernández as the pitcher he wanted. Before that development, Minaya said, his talks with the Pirates about Pérez stalled because the teams couldn’t agree on names. “Dave Littlefield and I had talked about Pérez for about a month,” Minaya said. “I’m always shopping for guys who are down but can pick up. “I thought a change of scenery might help Pérez,” he added. “I thought our environment with Tommy Glavine and Pedro and all that might help.” Until he had a need for a reliever, Minaya said, he wasn’t going to trade Nady for Pérez straight up. “It wasn’t going to happen,” Minaya said. “You don’t give up a guy in the major leagues for someone who’s in the minors.”

Batty31 Oct 20 2006 02:49 PM

Minaya is on WFAN right now and said he will definitely be trying to bring Glavine back.

Edgy DC Oct 20 2006 03:16 PM

One thing about Oliver, even last night, his movement takes him all over the place. Even when he's going right, it can go wrong real fast. One minute he can seem fixed, but then broke as soon as you turn your back. And even if the Mets continue to work with him, he may soon replace Victor Zambrano as the Rick Peterson's most frustrating pupil. Another side to it is that, if the Mets don't see room in the rotation for him and/or Maine, these past two days have been great showcases for them. Check out the Times accenteing the first syllable in "Pérez."

MFS62 Oct 21 2006 02:50 PM

Edgy DC wrote: One thing about Oliver, even last night, his movement takes him all over the place. Do you mean the movement on his pitches or his throwing motion? I've noticed that his throwing motion resulted in different release points on each pitch when he first joined the Mets. It seems to have improved since he joined the Mets, and may be one of the "mechanical" things Peterson can continue to work with him on. Yes, I heard Omar yesterday. Regarding bringing Glavine back - the Mets will owe him around $14+M if he stays(an innings bonus kicked in), and over $7 million if he chooses to leave. That makes me apprehensive that the Braves would be willing to pay him $8 million to equalize his salary to bring him back. In addition, Omar said he has already begun gearing up the organization in their efforts to improve the team for next year. He added that he has already received the OK from Wilpon to spend money to improve the team. And they will explore trades as well as free agency to do that. He has scheduled meetings already with his scouts, player development and minor league operations staffs for the next few weeks. So, it sounds like there may be a lot of hot stove stuff (or rumors of it)happening shortly. For that reason, I'd like this thread to be come a sticky. for the reporting of all hot stove stuff. For example, in case anyone missed this day-brightening item on the transaction wire: "10/12 Jose Lima (P) Declared Free Agency " Later

seawolf17 Oct 21 2006 07:07 PM

According to today's Newsday, it's $14.5 million on the team option, $7 (or $8, I don't recall) million on the player option. The buyout is $3 million. So worst case, he gets only $3 million from the Mets.

metsmarathon Oct 21 2006 10:01 PM

so, if i understand that correctly... its 14 mil if the team chooses to retain him, 7 mil if he chooses to remain with the team, or 3 mil if neither party wishes to see tom glavine on the 2007 mets right??

seawolf17 Oct 21 2006 10:08 PM

That's the way I read it this morning. The Mets can tell him, "We're not paying you $14 million." He can either say "Fine, then you'll pay me eight to play," or "I'll take my three and go sign for eight elsewhere and make eleven."

HahnSolo Oct 22 2006 11:38 AM

Adam Eaton is a free agent, right? I know he was hurt a lot this year, but is he a middle of the rotation option?

MFS62 Oct 22 2006 12:02 PM

HahnSolo wrote: Adam Eaton is a free agent, right? I know he was hurt a lot this year, but is he a middle of the rotation option? He's something like 54-45, 4.40 lifetime. I don't think he had a full ml season with an ERA under 4.10. Depends on whether he had his injury early this year, and then came back to pitch in the ML, or if the injury ended his year. I couldn't find his Dl list dates. He's already 28 yers old. He seems to be a Traschell in the making. He might be a #4, but IMO not a #3 on a team that wants to win it all. Later

Frayed Knot Oct 22 2006 09:43 PM

="seawolf17"]According to today's Newsday, it's $14.5 million on the team option, $7 (or $8, I don't recall) million on the player option. The buyout is $3 million. So worst case, he gets only $3 million from the Mets. Remember that Glavine agreed to a restructuring of his deal which reduced his salary by $3mil for this past year. So essentially the $3mil buyout is a way to give that money back if he chooses NOT to sign here again. If he does strike a deal that $3mil will, in effect, be part of the contract (so the $14.5 which seems so high is really "only" $11.5) Even still, that team option seems high and the player option kind of low. What this always sounded like to me was that the two sides purposely placed the options at the extremes of where his '07 salary might fall and what I suspect will happen is that, if Glavine decides to stay, the two sides will likely agree to a number that's somewhere between those two points.

metirish Oct 24 2006 03:42 PM

Not sure if this was reported here... [url=http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/app/news/article.jsp?ymd=20061023&content_id=139471&vkey=news_l119&fext=.jsp&sid=l119]Mets' Humber leaves Arizona Fall League[/url]

MFS62 Oct 24 2006 04:06 PM

Isn't there a big difference between a bruise and tendonitis? Is there a doctor in the house? Later

Farmer Ted Oct 24 2006 04:12 PM

A bruise is a trauma injury. Tendonitis is typically caused by general wear and tear. I'd take a bruise over tendonitis.

metirish Oct 24 2006 04:17 PM

You ask for a Doctor and you get a farmer.

soupcan Oct 24 2006 04:22 PM

Cows get bruised too.

Elster88 Oct 24 2006 10:28 PM

How on earth do we get Zumaya on our team? I'm a believer. I think Wagner would make an excellent LOOGY.

Yancy Street Gang Oct 27 2006 08:31 AM

There's a person who says the Mets aren't going to try to sign Zito. Or Soriano for that matter. From today's New York Post: ="Mark Hale"]SOURCE: METS NOT GUNNING FOR BIG 3 By MARK HALE October 27, 2006 -- ST. LOUIS - Two big names - Barry Zito and Alfonso Soriano - will be free agents this fall, and a third big name, Manny Ramirez, could available in a trade. But right now, according to a source familiar with the situation, the Mets are not interested in pursuing any of them. The Mets' agenda this offseason still can change, as the team will have organizational meetings shortly. But the strong initial indication, according to the source, is that the Mets are not targeting any specific position player unlike last year when they went after closer Billy Wagner. The Mets will need a top starter and possibly a second baseman and left fielder, but they apparently are not interested in Zito, Soriano and Ramirez, three big names who have been linked to the Mets over the past few seasons. Zito is represented by Scott Boras, and the Mets - according to the source - estimate the left-hander will soar out of their price range. Zito could get at least $70 million over five seasons. Zito, 28, went 16-10 with a 3.83 ERA this season with Oakland, fanning 151 and walking a career-high 99. As for Soriano, the source indicated the lack of interest would not be because of money. Rather, the person said the Mets have not pursued Soriano that much in the past. Soriano, a five-time All-Star who turns 31 in January, hit .277 with a career-high 46 homers and had 41 stolen bases this season with Washington while playing left field. He played second base in his first five seasons in the league. Mets second baseman Jose Valentin and left fielder Cliff Floyd will be free agents, but the Mets have looked at free-agent infielder Julio Lugo since July 2005. Lugo, who ended the season with the Dodgers, told The Post in September earlier this year that "playing [for the Mets] for me would be a dream come true." Last year, Ramirez reportedly wanted to be dealt. The Mets, though, didn't pursue Ramirez hard last winter. Boston, knowing that Ramirez and David Ortiz represent its strength, would move Ramirez only if a team paid the rest of his hefty contract and also traded the Sox multiple top young players. Boston also would have to know it could find a big bat to hit behind Ortiz. Accomplishing those three items is unlikely, the Red Sox believe, which means Ramirez will likely stay in Boston.

soupcan Oct 27 2006 09:21 AM

This doesn't really bother me that much. We all know that all-star laden teams don't guarantee you anything anyway. I'd definitely like the Mets to add a frontline starter or two but I'm good with taking a pass on Soriano and Manny - two guys who haven't shown to be the best clubhouse guys out there. Okay Omar I'm with you. Let's give Lastings a shot in left, sign Schmidt and go hard after Matsuzaka. I don't care what you do at second. Lugo's fine if that's what you want just don't overpay.

Frayed Knot Oct 27 2006 09:32 AM

"As for Soriano, the source indicated the lack of interest would not be because of money. Rather, the person said the Mets have not pursued Soriano that much in the past." But, but, but ... Omar's obsessed with Soriano. Everyone knows that! (or was it Manny? ... I lose track)

Willets Point Oct 27 2006 09:34 AM

It's Sammy Sosa he's obsessed with.

MFS62 Oct 27 2006 09:35 AM

="Frayed Knot"]"As for Soriano, the source indicated the lack of interest would not be because of money. Rather, the person said the Mets have not pursued Soriano that much in the past." But, but, but ... Omar's obsessed with Soriano. Everyone knows that! (or was it Manny? ... I lose track) And I think I read that Willie likes Sori, and vice versa, from their days together with the MFYs. Stay tuned. Later

Iubitul Oct 27 2006 09:47 AM

This sounds to me like we don't want to get involved so the price doesn't get ratched up higher before we actually get involved...

RealityChuck Oct 27 2006 10:33 AM

Yes. The worst thing to do when negotiating is to make it clear you really want a player. If you're willing to throw money at him, then fine, but if you want to keep to a budget, saying you're not interested can make a difference. If I were Omar, I'd certainly say I'm not that interested in Zito. Then when Scot Boras calls, you say "Well, OK" and try to get him for less. As a second bonus, it also doesn't raise expectations among fans. If the team says they're really going after Zito, and we don't get him, it's perceived as failure. If we say, "we're not interested" and end up with him anyway, it's perceived as a nice bonus.

MFS62 Oct 27 2006 10:37 AM

]Lugo, who ended the season with the Dodgers, told The Post in September earlier this year that "playing [for the Mets] for me would be a dream come true." I wonder if that would get the Mets a discounted price? Anyone know if Boras is his agent? Later

Valadius Oct 27 2006 07:05 PM

] Update: A source familiar with the Mets' thinking believes that the team will not pursue Soriano or Barry Zito, both of whom are free agents, or Manny Ramirez in a trade, the NY Post reports. Recommendation: The Mets' agenda this offseason still can change, as the team will have organizational meetings shortly. But the strong initial indication, according to the source, is that the Mets are not targeting any specific position player unlike last year when they went after closer Billy Wagner. The Mets will need a top starter and possibly a second baseman and left fielder, but they apparently are not interested in Soriano, Zito, and Ramirez, three big names who have been linked to the Mets over the past few seasons. As for Soriano, the source indicated the lack of interest would not be because of money. Rather, the person said the Mets have not pursued Soriano that much in the past, though he would fill a big hole in either left field or second base, if the team chooses not to re-sign Cliff Floyd or Jose Valentin.

Valadius Oct 27 2006 07:12 PM

] Update: Pettitte, a free agent, might be attractive to both New York teams, according to Joel Sherman of the NY Post reports. Recommendation: Pettitte has not yet determined whether or not to play in 2007 and if he wants to stay home in Houston if he were to return. Pettitte finished 14-13 with a 4.20 ERA, but he ended strongly, which is a big deal considering that the health of his left elbow has long been the big worry about him. Pettitte's 2.80 second-half ERA was seventh best in the majors (12 start minimum), and he tied for the overall major league lead in starts (35). His familiarity with the Yankees would seem to give them the edge if he does decide to come back for a long-term deal and Houston may have the advantage if he wants to go year-by-year.

Yancy Street Gang Oct 27 2006 08:32 PM

Who are these quotes from?

Valadius Oct 27 2006 09:43 PM

I clipped them from Yahoo News, which got them from RotoWire.

Johnny Dickshot Oct 27 2006 10:11 PM

Valadius wrote: I clipped them from Yahoo News, which got them from RotoWire. which likely stole something itself and misinterpreted it. Uh, Yahoo and Rotowire aren't reporters.

Edgy DC Oct 28 2006 12:32 AM

If the Mets want a big-shot arm, I'm thinking their top goal would be Dontrelle Willis, them thinking that re-uniting him with Lo Duca and exposing him to Pedro would be good influences. The downside would be that Peterson may not be enamored with all his extraneous movement. I think any trade talk would have to begin, and merely begin, Lastings Milledge. Clearly, Florida knows how to harvest the Mets farm.

Nymr83 Oct 28 2006 12:35 AM

for Willis, if a long-term deal can be negotiated, i'd sell a good part of the farm. If Milledge and Humber gets it done i'm game.

Elster88 Oct 28 2006 01:08 PM

I'll never understand why people think Florida would want to trade Willis for anything. He's a cheap young ace. That's what you gamble on getting when you trade for prospects. So why would the Marlins gamble on getting something in a prospect by trading away what they are hoping to get? Doesn't make any sense.

Nymr83 Oct 28 2006 01:50 PM

because he wont be cheap for much longer and themorons who run that team have adopted the "lowest possible payroll" business model rather than the "wins fill the seats" model.

metirish Oct 28 2006 08:05 PM

Kerry Wood is a FA,I know he's forever injured but maybe getting the hell outta Chicago is what he needs,Rick could work his bio-mechanics magic on him,I've read where people think he's got bad mechanics.

metsmarathon Oct 28 2006 09:05 PM

howsabout we stick him in the pen...

Rockin' Doc Oct 28 2006 09:13 PM

How's about we try not to sign someone that historically breaks down for extended periods each season. I would rather they sign Zito or Schmidt. Hell, I'd rather the Mets sign Mussina than take a flyer on Wood.

metirish Oct 28 2006 09:15 PM

But my point is that Peterson can fix his mechanics...I imagine he'd be not that expensive to sign..this rotation needs some hard throwers to complement the nibblers....

Edgy DC Oct 28 2006 11:53 PM

I think the Mets might rather take a good look at Wood. I think they showed something this year --- a organization that can back up their pitchers with redundancy can better afford high-risk-high-reward guys like Pedro, Zambrano, and Oliver Perez.

metirish Oct 28 2006 11:57 PM

I have great faith in Peterson..i think he can turn Wood into what he should be..a 20 game winner...

Nymr83 Oct 29 2006 12:39 AM

Edgy DC wrote: I think the Mets might rather take a good look at Wood. I think they showed something this year --- a organization that can back up their pitchers with redundancy can better afford high-risk-high-reward guys like Pedro, Zambrano, and Oliver Perez. Zambrano is high-risk-no-reward. i wouldn't mind acquiring Wood for the same reasons as Edgy though. this team doesn't need more #3-4 starters, i'll take the guy with the potential to be a #1-2 and the downside of getting hurt alot over the "gauranteed" #3-4.

cleonjones11 Oct 29 2006 01:09 AM

Edgy DC wrote: I think the Mets might rather take a good look at Wood. I think they showed something this year --- a organization that can back up their pitchers with redundancy can better afford high-risk-high-reward guys like Pedro, Zambrano, and Oliver Perez. Kerry Wood might have to do smithers rehab first. Does anyone think Pedro may actually be finished? 2 bad wheels, a toe and a rotator cuff at age 35..... Oliver Perez might work out. We LOVED Bannister til the injury..why not now? Pelfrey...Humber 2 years from surgery....Play the hand we have and add Zito or Dontrelle Willis which I don't see Florida doing personally... We'll be fine...

Yancy Street Gang Oct 29 2006 06:26 AM

I think Pedro will pitch again, so I don't think he's completely finished. But you're right, it's possible that he'll never again be what he was. I'd rather not think along those lines, though. The Mets have to make a rotation for 2007 that doesn't include Pedro, and then if he comes back and pitches effectively, it's a mid-year bonus.

Nymr83 Oct 29 2006 10:00 AM

] We LOVED Bannister til the injury..why not now? i never loved Bannister, even when he was winning he was loading the bases seemingly every other inning. with all the baserunners he allowed it would have all come crashing down on him if he hadn't gotten hurt.

Johnny Dickshot Oct 29 2006 10:26 AM

yah, I wasn't sliding down the Bannister either. I wouldn't completely reject the guy but his stuff is only so good. And you can only have so much faith in El Duque. I like him on his good days but pencil in a few horrendous outings too.

Valadius Oct 29 2006 02:17 PM

Pedro is in no way finished. He's got at least another solid year left in him, probably two.

Yancy Street Gang Oct 29 2006 03:19 PM

Hopefully. But we really can't be sure of that until he pitches again.

Yancy Street Gang Nov 01 2006 07:57 AM

Good news for Willets: ] New York Daily News - http://www.nydailynews.com Glavine likes Mets' pitch BY ADAM RUBIN DAILY NEWS SPORTS WRITER Wednesday, November 1st, 2006 TOKYO - Not only does Tom Glavine appear poised to remain a Met, he apparently intends to pitch in Flushing through the 2008 season. Glavine and the Mets are deep in discussions about a two-year, $25 million contract that should be completed shortly, a source told the Daily News. When Glavine cleaned out his locker the day after the Mets' Game 7 ouster in the NLCS, he indicated his family's preference would be the primary factor in whether he remained a Met or returned to the Braves. Signing with Atlanta would allow Glavine to be near his wife, Christine, and his two sons at his home in Alpharetta, Ga. "The only reason, really, that it's even a question is my family," Glavine said Oct. 20. Glavine also suggested that day that '07 would be his final season, provided he notched 10 more victories and reached the 300 plateau. However, one other factor has since surfaced and appears to have altered the southpaw's mindset. Glavine, who has shared a stage with John Smoltz and Greg Maddux throughout their distinguished major-league careers, would prefer not to enter the Hall of Fame in the same class as Maddux, according to a source. Maddux figures to retire after the '07 season, meaning Glavine would need to pitch through '08 to ensure they are in separate classes if both are elected on the first ballot. For that reason, along with his rebirth as a pitcher, Glavine appears intent on pitching two more seasons as he nears his 41st birthday during spring training. The Mets and Glavine each had options for the '07 season, but both sides had always portrayed the situation as a two-step partnership: First, Glavine would decide whether he wanted to return. Then the team and Glavine's agents would work out a contract somewhere between the figures. In mid-January, Glavine agreed to defer $3 million from his $10.5 million salary for '06. In turn, the sides added a pair of options - a team option for '07 that totals $14 million, and a player option that totals $7.5 million, with $3 million paid as a lump sum if neither is exercised. Glavine is 48-48 with a 3.85 ERA in four seasons as a Met. He went 15-7 with a 3.82 ERA in 198 innings this past season. He also contributed 13 scoreless innings over his first two postseason starts, against the Dodgers and Cardinals. The two-time Cy Young Award winner overcame an August scare that stemmed from coldness in his left ring finger. Glavine was able to treat that clotting condition that originated in his left shoulder with baby aspirin. The Mets desperately wanted Glavine to return, especially minus Pedro Martinez for at least the first half of the 2007 season following rotator cuff surgery. "I think he's very important as far as the leadership of our staff - especially if you're not going to have someone like a Pedro until later on - with some of the young players who might step in and maybe take over a spot in the rotation," Willie Randolph said.

Edgy DC Nov 01 2006 08:04 AM

]two-year, $25 million A lot of clams for the elderly.

metirish Nov 01 2006 08:21 AM

Omar must want him as a coach after his done playing...

Elster88 Nov 01 2006 08:22 AM

I'm fine with it, as long as the money doesn't keep him the Mets from signing other players. I like pitching as much as I like pretty ladies.

soupcan Nov 01 2006 08:43 AM

You know though - as much as ther's this supposed 'resurgence' to Glavine's career, we all know he didn't really pitch that great. At 42 years old is he really go to be worth $12.5 mil? I don't think so. I suppose if the Mets have the scratch to do it then at the least he becomes insurance.

metirish Nov 01 2006 08:55 AM

What I don't get is why he would rather not enter the HOF the same year as Maddox, are they not tight or what?

patona314 Nov 01 2006 08:58 AM

wasn't glavine's "met" option for $14M?. if so, the mets save 1.5 for 07.

Yancy Street Gang Nov 01 2006 09:06 AM

I'd guess that Glavine is tired of being overshadowed by Maddux. I wouldn't be suprised that if Jerry Koosman had been elected to the Hall of Fame, he'd prefer that his acceptance speech wasn't the opening act for Seaver's.

patona314 Nov 01 2006 09:06 AM

Edgy DC wrote: I think the Mets might rather take a good look at Wood. I think they showed something this year --- a organization that can back up their pitchers with redundancy can better afford high-risk-high-reward guys like Pedro, Zambrano, and Oliver Perez. Wood is coming back next year as a closer

Frayed Knot Nov 01 2006 09:21 AM

.,

Willets Point Nov 01 2006 10:12 AM

Yancy Street Gang wrote: Good news for Willets: Why? I'm not the one getting $25 million.

Yancy Street Gang Nov 01 2006 10:12 AM

I figured you'd be happy for Glavine.

Willets Point Nov 01 2006 10:16 AM

Rats, I thought maybe there was a clause in his contract I could profit from.

Yancy Street Gang Nov 01 2006 10:18 AM

I haven't read the fine print yet, so don't give up hope. I think there may be a clause that you get poppy-seed rolls with Glavine's face on them delivered to your door every Sunday morning.

metirish Nov 01 2006 12:20 PM

] Heilman on Cubs' radar By Paul Sullivan Tribune staff reporter October 31, 2006, 9:30 PM CST Carlos Zambrano and Rich Hill appear to be the only two certainties for the Cubs rotation next spring, so general manager Jim Hendry is likely looking to fill three spots this winter. Hendry will try to bring in one or two front-line starters through free agency or via the Japanese market, but sources indicate the Cubs also may get involved in trade talks with the New York Mets in hopes of acquiring right-hander Aaron Heilman. If the Cubs nab Heilman, he would be given a chance to earn the fifth starter's spot in spring training, along with veteran Wade Miller, whom the Cubs hope to re-sign. Mark Prior's uncertain status will force the Cubs to go to spring training with a surplus of starting pitching candidates. Heilman, a Notre Dame graduate who turns 28 this month, is a former starter in New York who went 4-5 with a 3.62 earned-run average in relief this season. He's 12-18 in his career with a 4.34 ERA and 252 strikeouts in 2881/3 innings. Heilman served up the game-winning home run to St. Louis' Yadier Molina in Game 7 of the National League Championship Series and may be used as trade bait this off-season, according to a New York Times report. Heilman was rumored to be part of a multiplayer package two years ago in a proposed Cubs-Mets trade involving Sammy Sosa. Mets ownership ultimately shot down the deal because it wanted no part of Sosa, who was traded to Baltimore.

Edgy DC Nov 01 2006 12:23 PM

It's pretty funny that Rubin's story is filed from Tokyo, presumably with none of the key figures from the story in Tokyo. Is his source Julio Franco or John Maine?

metirish Nov 01 2006 12:27 PM

] Is his source Julio Franco or John Maine? Tony Bernazard is on the trip, maybe he's the source.

Willets Point Nov 01 2006 12:28 PM

Yancy Street Gang wrote: I haven't read the fine print yet, so don't give up hope. I think there may be a clause that you get poppy-seed rolls with Glavine's face on them delivered to your door every Sunday morning. Yum!

MFS62 Nov 01 2006 12:32 PM

Ok, so, Zambrano and Hill are off the table? Who else on the Cubs would the Mets want to fill a current need? Izturis? Jacque Jones? I'm not sure if they're free agents or not. ] 40-Man Roster Pitchers 54 David Aardsma 46 Ryan Dempster 47 Scott Eyre 37 Angel Guzman * -- Adam Harben 53 Rich Hill 62 Bob Howry 49 Carlos Marmol 45 Sean Marshall 51 Juan Mateo 52 Wade Miller 44 Roberto Novoa 48 Ryan O'Malley 13 Will Ohman 22 Mark Prior 33 Glendon Rusch 20 Jae Kuk Ryu * 34 Kerry Wood 60-day Disabled List 43 Michael Wuertz 38 Carlos Zambrano Catchers B/T Ht Wt DOB 8 Michael Barrett 24 Henry Blanco 61 Jose Reyes (obviously another one) 58 Geovany Soto Infielders 5 Ronny Cedeno * 56 Brian Dopirak 3 Cesar Izturis 25 Derrek Lee 15 Scott Moore 16 Aramis Ramirez 7 Ryan Theriot Outfielders 4 Freddie Bynum 30 Buck Coats 11 Jacque Jones 17 John Mabry 19 Matt Murton * -- Miguel Negron 29 Angel Pagan * 68 Felix Pie 9 Juan Pierre * Not on Active Roster Later

Edgy DC Nov 01 2006 12:36 PM

Who wouldn't want a little Felix Pie?

Vic Sage Nov 01 2006 12:38 PM

I'll take Theriot, thank you very much. Oh, and they can throw in Matt Murton, too.

MFS62 Nov 01 2006 12:48 PM

Edgy DC wrote: Who wouldn't want a little Felix Pie? Edgy, that question might just offend entire generations of cat and/or cartoon lovers. :) Later

Willets Point Nov 01 2006 12:50 PM

She's my Felix Pie!

metsmarathon Nov 01 2006 01:39 PM

Vic Sage wrote: I'll take Theriot, thank you very much. Oh, and they can throw in Matt Murton, too. yep. in a bare cupboard, those are the best cups.

MFS62 Nov 01 2006 01:47 PM

Theriot looks like the second coming of Jason Tyner, 11 D, 4 T, 0 HR in AAA last year. Unless he's the second coming of Bill Mazeroski with the glove, he appears to be not much of an improvement over A Hernandez. And AH is very good with the glove, too. As for Murton, IIRC he only had 10-12 HR while playing half of 100+ games in Wrigley Field (Yes, he hit close to .300). That's not that big improvement, if any, over what the Mets could expect from Green, and I don't recall Murton being a gazelle in the OF. I'd want more for Heilmann than those two. They seem redundant with what the Mets currently have. At best, they seem to be a slightly incremental improvement. (That was redundant, wasn't it?) Later

cleonjones11 Nov 02 2006 02:16 AM

We could have Rusch and Pagan back? This Cubs thing sounds ike a Red Herring...They have little to offer....

MFS62 Nov 03 2006 09:56 AM

Free Agent question moved to spinoff thread. Later

Vic Sage Nov 03 2006 12:00 PM

Michael Pelfrey: Shut Down from the AFL RotoWire.com Staff - RotoWire.com Friday, November 3, 2006 Update: Pelfrey has been shut down from throwing in the Arizona Fall League because of general soreness and nothing more, the NY Newsday reports. GM Omar Minaya said. "When you get aches and pains this time of year, why not shut him down?" Recommendation: Pelfrey should be fully healed from his lat injury by spring training and could get a shot at earning a spot in the Mets' rotation depending on what the team does this offseason.