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Farmer Ted
Oct 28 2006 10:49 PM

Let the dealings begin.

Five players filed for free agency Saturday from the New York Mets: outfielders Cliff Floyd and Ricky Ledee, pitchers Orlando Hernandez and Steve Trachsel and shortstop Chris Woodward.

metirish
Oct 28 2006 11:01 PM

I really could not care if none came back...I like Cliff but he seems finished,El Duque might be worth another look....

Yancy Street Gang
Oct 29 2006 06:21 AM

Of those, Hernandez is the one I'd most like to see come back. Of course, that depends on what other pitchers the Mets might add.

smg58
Oct 29 2006 09:35 AM

El Duque could keep a rotation spot warm for Pedro. Otherwise, he'd either be brought back instead of signing somebody younger and better, or he'd blocking Maine or Perez. I'd keep him in mind, but I'm not sure I'd call him a priority.

Rockin' Doc
Oct 29 2006 03:29 PM

I always liked Cliff and will hate to see him go, but I think his best days are behind him now. He's just too fragile to count on him as an everyday player.

Orlando Hernandez is worth retaining if the price is reasonable.

Trachsel, Ledee, and Woodward...goodbye and good riddance.

Elster88
Oct 29 2006 03:31 PM

smg58 wrote:
El Duque could keep a rotation spot warm for Pedro. Otherwise, he'd either be brought back instead of signing somebody younger and better, or he'd blocking Maine or Perez. I'd keep him in mind, but I'm not sure I'd call him a priority.


You can never have too much pitching. People have accidents.

Edgy DC
Oct 29 2006 03:45 PM

A huge part of our success this year was living by that mantra.

Nymr83
Oct 29 2006 04:19 PM

thats true, but you have to differentiate between guys who are nice to have around incase of said accident and guys whose very presense getsw them a rotation spot whether they deserve it or not... i'm wary of el duque because he could have a 5 ERA and not get benched, any of these other guys (maine, perez, bannister, pelfrey, humber, etc) would find hteir way to AAA if they pitched poorly enough.

Farmer Ted
Oct 30 2006 10:38 AM

Jose Valentin and Michael Tucker filed for free agency yesterday. I don't see Jose waiting around for the Mets to offer. He's going to take his 2006 season and parlay it into one more 2-year deal. I hoped for more from Tucker. I thought he could be this year's Timo. That turned out to be Endy.

HahnSolo
Oct 30 2006 10:41 AM

I can see Jose not waiting out the Mets, but I don't believe that he's going to have a lot of suitors offering 2-year deals.

Vic Sage
Oct 30 2006 11:56 AM

he doesn't need A LOT of suitors offering 2-year deals... he just needs one.

Farmer Ted
Oct 30 2006 12:08 PM

Julio Franco got a two-year deal.

Frayed Knot
Oct 30 2006 02:10 PM

Franco, btw, is on the trip as a coach for this upcoming US/Japan series.
I don't think it's inconceivable that he finishes (or maybe even begins) next season as one depending on how he looks as 2007 moves along.

MFS62
Oct 30 2006 02:15 PM

All they have to do is pass him through waivers once. If he makes it, they could put him on the bench and activate him if needed in a hurry.
It sure makes him more readily available than a player they'd have to recall from a city in which New Orleans would be playing.

Later

metirish
Oct 30 2006 02:16 PM

Good point FK, Omar said as much when he signed Julio that he wanted him as a coach when he finished playing,course franco says he wants to play past 50 so it might be a few years.

Vic Sage
Oct 30 2006 02:31 PM

why couldn't he be a player/coach?

Its been done before, and i can't think of anybody better to do it now. He still has a few pinch-hits left in him, but its kind of a shame to take up a roster spot for that limited purpose. But, since he's kind of a de facto coach of sorts anyway, why not make it official?

Yancy Street Gang
Oct 30 2006 02:51 PM

I wonder, is there a limit to how many coaches there can be at a given time? In other words, is there anything preventing teams from loading up on coaches like the Yankees have on broadcasters?

Frayed Knot
Oct 30 2006 02:53 PM

Yes, there is a limit on coaches; or, more accurately, on the number of uniformed coaches who can be in the dugout during game time.

Edgy DC
Oct 30 2006 02:57 PM

But a player-coach would presumably not count against that limit, as he is already welcome there as a member of the roster.

Frayed Knot
Oct 30 2006 02:59 PM

That '# of coaches rule' is part of what set Keith off upon seeing that female trainer in the SD dugout.
Because it was one of their 'Camoflauge Uni Nights' the trainers were also dressed in very similar camo, making the chick look like she was uniformed personnel or, to Keith's eyes, like some sort of mascot/groupie who didn't belong.


Don Zimmer is also now an "extra" coach these days. He's there instructing and whatnot before the game but is out of uniform and the dugout at game time.

metirish
Oct 30 2006 02:59 PM

]

ST. LOUIS -- Dominican veteran Julio Franco will be among the major leaguers traveling to Japan next week, but not as a player.


"Julio is going to Japan as a consultant and ambassador and may cooperate as hitting coach but, technically, he will not be part of the coaching team," players union chief operating officer Gene Orza told ESPNdeportes.com on Thursday.



Frayed Knot
Oct 30 2006 03:02 PM

Edgy DC wrote:
But a player-coach would presumably not count against that limit, as he is already welcome there as a member of the roster.


Well yeah, if Franco fills a player/coach role and the limits are '25 + 5' (I think it's either 5 or 6) it's not like he'd be counted twice.
I was being general in response to Yancy's "unlimited?" question.

Farmer Ted
Oct 30 2006 03:35 PM

The White Sox on Monday exercised the 2007 club options on the contracts of Buehrle, Dye and Iguchi.

metirish
Oct 30 2006 06:26 PM

Mota and R Hernandez filed today.

TransMonk
Oct 30 2006 09:02 PM

Padres pick up option for Cameron, decline option on Piazza.

metirish
Oct 30 2006 09:06 PM

Mike, the American League is calling you...Angels?

Valadius
Oct 30 2006 09:07 PM

Bradford filed today too.

Nymr83
Oct 30 2006 09:09 PM

lets lock Bradford and Mota back up before they see the market, the bullpen is going to be key again next year on a staff unlikely to take many games deep.

Farmer Ted
Oct 30 2006 10:15 PM

From Phil Rogers, ESPN.com...

Prediction: Seattle strikes again to sign Matsuzaka, a move that will convince Suzuki not to go looking for greener pastures when his deal expires after next season. The Mets outbid the Dodgers for Zito and Schmidt winds up with the Cubs. At least two other Japanese starters accompany Matsuzaka to the United States, including Hiroki Kuroda, an unrestricted free agent.

Zvon
Oct 30 2006 10:23 PM

Nymr83 wrote:
lets lock Bradford and Mota back up before they see the market, the bullpen is going to be key again next year on a staff unlikely to take many games deep.


Esp Bradford.
No matter what the shape of the rotation we could use that freakin double play machine.

metirish
Oct 30 2006 10:43 PM

Deffo want to have Bradford and Mota back....

Elster88
Oct 30 2006 10:55 PM

Mota's another one that confuses the hell out of me. He got the everloving crap kicked out of him for half a year and then pitched well for us.

'Course, if he doesn't give up that triple in Game 2 we don't lose to St. Looie. But I blame Willie for pitching him two innings that gaeme. If he actually did pitch two innings and I'm not misremembering.

You know what? Fuck him. I still hate that prick for throwing at my boy. I'm glad our World Series team wasn't soiled by that pussy.

Johnny Dickshot
Oct 30 2006 11:10 PM

Willie left him in a batter too long is all. I thought after Pujols & Edmonds worked him for lo-o-ong ABs he was prolly gassed.

Edgy DC
Oct 30 2006 11:18 PM

There's also the minor fact of him shaking off his catcher's call.

RealityChuck
Oct 31 2006 08:28 AM

Elster88 wrote:
Mota's another one that confuses the hell out of me. He got the everloving crap kicked out of him for half a year and then pitched well for us.
Turned out he was tipping his pitchers. Pedro noticed it when he came over. Once he fixed that, he pitched just fine.

metirish
Oct 31 2006 08:59 AM

Yusaku Iriki filed yesterday....he was the only major league player to fail a drug test this season.

MFS62
Oct 31 2006 09:14 AM

]KENNEDY INTRIGUED BY METS
By MARK HALE
Adam KennedyOctober 31, 2006 -- Playing for the Mets appeals to Adam Kennedy.

Kennedy, one of the elite options among free-agent second basemen this winter, has spent the last seven seasons with the Angels. He filed for free agency on Sunday, however, and yesterday his agent, Paul Cohen, said he has "definite interest" in the Mets.

This past year Kennedy hit .273 with four homers, 55 RBIs, 16 steals and a .334 on-base percentage for the Angels. Kennedy, who turns 31 in January, has fared well in the playoffs (he was the ALCS MVP in 2002 and has hit .308 in 25 career postseason games) and although he committed nine errors this year (tied for seventh among AL second basemen), he had the fewest among regular AL second basemen in 2005 (five).

Cohen, who said several teams have inquired about Kennedy so far, but the Mets have not. The agent added being on a "winning team" is Kennedy's top priority.

According to Jose Valentin's agent, Dave Elston, "The Mets and Jose are talking about Jose coming back." Elston said the free agent second baseman has spoken with other teams, including one that has interest in using him at shortstop.

The Mets also have had interest in free-agent second baseman Julio Lugo, who told The Post in September that playing at Shea "would be a dream come true."

Another second base option could be Rich Aurilia, whose agent, Barry Axelrod, said, "He's a native of Staten Island and his prime criteria for where he wants to play is to be on a winner and I think the Mets fit that description."

*

Aaron Heilman's stance remains the same: He wants to be a starting pitcher, either for the Mets or another team in 2007, according to a person familiar with the right-handed reliever's thinking.

Heilman has reiterated his desire to start to management already, the person said.


According to Orlando "El Duque" Hernandez's agent, Greg Genske, the veteran righty has spoken to the Mets about coming back.

"El Duque's preference is to remain with the Mets. He loves New York and has had a terrific experience with the Mets organization," Genske said in an e-mail yesterday. "While we are in discussions about a potential return to the Mets, several other clubs have called to express interest in El Duque."



Later

smg58
Oct 31 2006 09:14 AM

Elster88 wrote:
Mota's another one that confuses the hell out of me. He got the everloving crap kicked out of him for half a year and then pitched well for us.


You can say the same thing about Perez, although Ollie wasn't as consistently good. The Cardinals will happily say the same thing about Jeff Weaver. Sometimes these things happen.

I've got no problem bringing Bradford and Mota back. I'd like to see Owens get a fair chance to compete for a spot, but otherwise I see no good reason to tamper too much with the bullpen.

Edgy DC
Oct 31 2006 09:35 AM

Guillermo Mota has been good most of his career, and he's a pretty good bet to continue to be good.

Adam Kennedy, elite? I think a typical season for Kennedy would be on the low end of possible outcomes for Jose Valentin.

metirish
Oct 31 2006 09:42 AM

Kennedy has "definite interest" in the Mets..no shit

Yancy Street Gang
Oct 31 2006 09:44 AM

It's more interesting to know who the Mets are interested in, rather than the other way around.

And we haven't heard anything of substance along those lines yet, have we? Other than that they want to bring Glavine back.

I think November 12 is the date that negotiating can begin. Right now teams are just putting out feelers, and we may not hear a whole lot about who's feeling whom.

soupcan
Oct 31 2006 09:56 AM

Perhaps I haven't paying enough attention but there are a few names in this article that I haven't heard before...


October 31, 2006
Re-Signing Glavine Is the Mets’ Top Priority
By BEN SHPIGEL


With the World Series completed, 29 teams will spend the next four months trying to be like the St. Louis Cardinals. For the Mets, their off-season plans revolve around making sense of a muddled pitching situation headed by Tom Glavine.

Re-signing Glavine, who will be 41 next season, is the Mets’ top priority, but Glavine has said several times that only the wishes of his family, who lives in Atlanta, would dictate whether he wins his 300th game as a Met or a Brave.

“Tom could sit around for months, and the factors aren’t going to change,” said Gregg Clifton, Glavine’s agent. “Nothing new’s going to happen. It’s the same ownership, the same pitching coaches, the same stadiums. He realizes the value and benefits and the unfinished business he has in leading the Mets to the World Series. The only variable is his family, and for Tom, that’s what this is all about.”

Glavine, who has 290 career victories, has two options in his contract with the Mets. There is a player option for $7.5 million that must be exercised by Nov. 10 and a team option for $14 million that must be picked up by Nov. 20, but neither side is leaning in those directions. Clifton said that he intended to persuade Glavine to make a decision in the next few days. “If I’m handicapping it now, I’d say he’s leaning toward New York,” Clifton said.

Glavine is more valuable to the Mets than Pedro Martínez, who will be recovering from shoulder surgery through next summer. Glavine could sign a one-year deal in the $10 million-$11 million range.

After Glavine, the Mets have a reservoir of young pitchers who come cheaply, including Mike Pelfrey, John Maine, Oliver Pérez and Brian Bannister. The team will be thrilled if two or three of those pitchers earn a place in the opening-day rotation. But that does not eliminate the need to find a solid veteran to back up Glavine. Orlando Hernández, who filed for free agency and may seek a contract longer than the Mets may be willing to offer, could be an option. More likely, it may be someone who pitched for a different team last season.

Unless the Mets win the Daisuke Matsuzaka sweepstakes, they seem more inclined to upgrade their pitching through trades and fill other holes — second base, left field, the bench — via free agency. Of the two top free-agent pitchers — Barry Zito and Jason Schmidt — the Mets appear to have a better chance at signing Zito, a durable left-hander who worked with the Mets’ pitching coach, Rick Peterson, in Oakland. But the Mets do not seem inclined to pay top dollar for someone they view as a No. 2 or a No. 3 pitcher.

The Mets have two first-rate trading chips in Lastings Milledge and Aaron Heilman and may use them, in the same or separate deals, to acquire the pitcher they desire. With their surplus of starting pitching, the White Sox would be an attractive trading partner. Chicago would like to open a rotation slot for Brandon McCarthy and would not hesitate to trade Javier Vázquez or Freddy García. Vázquez pitched in Montreal when Mets General Manager Omar Minaya worked there.

Whether the Mets part with Heilman may depend on Duaner Sánchez’s recovery from a separated shoulder and their success in re-signing Guillermo Mota, which they intend to try to do. The Mets also want to re-sign Chad Bradford, a valuable and versatile right-hander. His agent, Rex Gary, said last week that Bradford would test the free-agent market.

In Carlos Lee and Alfonso Soriano, there are two right-handed power-hitting free-agent left fielders. The Mets do not figure to get heavily involved in bidding for either one, even though Soriano, who could also play second base, has intrigued Minaya and the Mets. They could also pursue Moises Alou, but that would make sense only if they intend to keep Milledge. Alou, 40, is an injury risk, but he could help until Milledge is ready.

Among free-agent second basemen, Julio Lugo, a native of Brooklyn who played last season for Tampa Bay and the Los Angeles Dodgers, is the most dynamic option, but two other players are also intriguing. Mark Loretta, who committed four errors last season playing for Boston, is the best defensive player of the group and is a career .299 hitter. But there is also Ronnie Belliard, who played for the World Series champion Cardinals and has been where the Mets want to go.

INSIDE PITCH

Carlos Delgado had surgery for tennis elbow on his left arm yesterday, his second operation in eight days. Delgado’s right wrist was operated on Oct. 23 for carpal tunnel syndrome. The Mets said they expected him to be ready for spring training. (AP)

metirish
Oct 31 2006 09:57 AM
Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Oct 31 2006 10:15 AM

A report in the Newsday today is saying that Schmidt wants to say on the West Coast, his agent of course says the Mets and any east coast team should not count themselves out.

Edgy DC
Oct 31 2006 10:13 AM

Tennis elbow, it's the new appencitis.

How many times am I supposed to hear about free agents making "playing for a winner" their top priority?

Yancy Street Gang
Oct 31 2006 10:21 AM

They all want to. (Why wouldn't they?)

But what happens if the Mets offer $800,000 to be a reserve for one year and the Brewers offer $3.5 million per for two years to be a starter?

I think that's when they change their tune.

Or they convince themselves that the Brewers are a winner.

Frayed Knot
Oct 31 2006 10:21 AM

99% of the "news" at this time of year consists of either sportswriter speculation, or player/agent/GM posturing.

I'm paying very little attention to what's being written.

metirish
Oct 31 2006 10:23 AM

We should at least wait till our guy goes to the winter meetings...

Yancy Street Gang
Oct 31 2006 10:26 AM

When are the winter meetings?

I have a feeling I'm going to miss a lot of news while I'm in Japan the last two weeks in November.

metirish
Oct 31 2006 10:43 AM

]

2006 & 2007 Baseball Calendar & Events

11-13-2006
General Managers Meeting (Naples, FL)
13 Days

12-04-2006
Winter Meetings (Orlando, FL)
34 Days

12-07-2006
Salary Arbitration Deadline
37 Days

12-07-2006
Rule 5 Major / Minor League Draft
37 Days

01-05-2007
Salary Arbitration Filing (through 01-15)
65 Days

02-01-2007
Salary Arbitration Hearings Begin
92 Days

02-15-2007
Spring Traing : Pitchers & Catchers
106 Days

02-28-2007
Spring Traing : Grapefruit Games Begin
119 Days

07-10-2007
2007 All-Star Game (AT&T Park)
251 Days

Yancy Street Gang
Oct 31 2006 11:11 AM

I guess I won't be missing the Winter Meetings, then.

I'm sure there will be some baseball news during the two weeks I'm away. I have no idea how out of touch I'm going to be.

metirish
Oct 31 2006 11:18 AM

I'm sure you'll find plenty of internet cafe's,and your hotel probably will be linked up.

Johnny Dickshot
Oct 31 2006 11:28 AM

Yancy Street Gang wrote:
I guess I won't be missing the Winter Meetings, then.

I'm sure there will be some baseball news during the two weeks I'm away. I have no idea how out of touch I'm going to be.


Perhaps we oughta sked the Parody Challenge for this period too, so as to give the rest of us a chance

Yancy Street Gang
Oct 31 2006 11:34 AM

metirish wrote:
I'm sure you'll find plenty of internet cafe's,and your hotel probably will be linked up.


Some of my hotels don't even have toilets, so I'm not so sure how wired they'll be.

Even if I do find an Internet Cafe, I don't know if I'll understand the keyboards.

smg58
Oct 31 2006 03:52 PM

I don't have a problem with simply picking up Glavine's option and keeping Pelfrey in AAA for a year. Glavine's buyout would be for $3M, so for the Mets to bring him back for $11M total would mean Glavine couldn't get $8M on the open market (or at least from the Braves). That's a gamble I wouldn't make. It could easily make things more expensive (i.e., if they have to scramble to get a comparable replacement) in the long run.

The Mets have an abundance of young starters (Bannister, Pelfrey, Humber, Soler, even Williams, plus Maine and Perez). You could deal one or two of them, especially if you re-sign Hernandez or they're in a package for somebody like Garcia. I don't understand why every sportswriter immediately mentions Milledge and Heilman. I wouldn't quickly part with either.

Farmer Ted
Nov 01 2006 08:32 AM

Glavine's going to get a nice $25 million deal for two years. But Oliver #1 is going to take a look around.

Lefty reliever Darren Oliver filed for free agency.

Vic Sage
Nov 01 2006 11:10 AM

Kennedy? Loretta?
Puhleez. They're probably 2 of the least appealing options.

2b options:

[u:5260289d03]name (age - B) - `06 OPS (career OPS)[/u:5260289d03]
Aurilia (35 - R) .867 (.775)
Belliard (31 - R) .725 (.751)
DeRosa (31 - R) .812 (.735)
Jiminez (28 - S) .601 (.727)
Kennedy (30 - L) .718 (.730)
Lorretta (35 - R) .706 (.765)
Lugo (30 - R) .762 (.742)

nobody on this list sparks much enthusiasm or represents an upgrade over Valentin. This, combined with the dearth of talent in our farm system, means 2b will remain a significant question (?) mark this season, unless we sign Soriano or make a significant trade.

Elster88
Nov 01 2006 11:21 AM

]With the World Series completed, 29 teams will spend the next four months trying to be like the St. Louis Cardinals.


No way in hell do I want the Mets emulating the Cardinals.

"Let's try to win 83 games next year."

Elster88
Nov 01 2006 11:45 AM

Vic Sage wrote:
Kennedy? Loretta?
Puhleez. They're probably 2 of the least appealing options.

2b options:

name (age - B) - `06 OPS (career OPS)
Aurilia (35 - R) .867 (.775)
Belliard (31 - R) .725 (.751)
DeRosa (31 - R) .812 (.735)
Jiminez (28 - S) .601 (.727)
Kennedy (30 - L) .718 (.730)
Lorretta (35 - R) .706 (.765)
Lugo (30 - R) .762 (.742)

nobody on this list sparks much enthusiasm or represents an upgrade over Valentin. This, combined with the dearth of talent in our farm system, means 2b will remain a significant question (?) mark this season, unless we sign Soriano or make a significant trade.


I know it's anathema to say it in front of many of our regular posters...but Soriano seems like a pretty good option. We need a left fielder and we need a second baseman. He plays both. And it would cost us only cash.

PS: Did I use anathema correctly? I need some vocabulary/elitist help.

Yancy Street Gang
Nov 01 2006 12:04 PM

="American Heritage Dictionary"]
anathema

NOUN:Inflected forms: pl. a·nath·e·mas
1. A formal ecclesiastical ban, curse, or excommunication. 2. A vehement denunciation; a curse: “the sound of a witch's anathemas in some unknown tongue” (Nathaniel Hawthorne). 3. One that is cursed or damned. 4. One that is greatly reviled, loathed, or shunned: “Essentialism—a belief in natural, immutable sex differences—is anathema to postmodernists, for whom sexuality itself, along with gender, is a ‘social construct’” (Wendy Kaminer, Atlantic October 1993).
ETYMOLOGY:Late Latin anathema, doomed offering, accursed thing, from Greek, from anatithenai, anathe-, to dedicate : ana-, ana- + tithenai, to put; see dh- in Appendix I.

Elster88
Nov 01 2006 12:05 PM

Thank you. But how 'bout the usage? Fix my sentence.

MFS62
Nov 01 2006 12:09 PM

Elster88 wrote:
Thank you. But how 'bout the usage? Fix my sentence.

Definitiojns 3 and 4 seem to fit the bill. No need to fix your thread.
:)

Later

Yancy Street Gang
Nov 01 2006 12:12 PM

I think your usage was just a little off. I don't think the suggestion is anathema, but perhaps Soriano himself is.

Rotblatt
Nov 01 2006 12:21 PM

To the meat of Elster's argument, I'm starting to come around.

Soriano's overrated, terrible defensively at 2B, and is coming off of a career year, meaning that his price will be sky high . . . Plus, he's got atrocious plate discipline.

But unlike last year, bringing him aboard would only cost us money, which we've got in droves, and he does have an appealing blend of speed and power.

I'd prefer to spend our money elsewhere, but I don't think it would be stupid for us to sign Soriano. We could also sign a 2B scrub from the list Vic posted, and if the scrub works out, we leave Soriano in left. If not, we hand Soriano the 2B job and hope his offense makes up for his defense. Which it probably will.

Yancy Street Gang
Nov 01 2006 12:39 PM

I'd be okay with Soriano, too.

Vic Sage
Nov 01 2006 12:57 PM

glad to see some of youse coming around.

metirish
Nov 01 2006 01:00 PM

Twenty four homers at RFK Stadium this season,hell yeah I would be happy to have him.

Centerfield
Nov 01 2006 01:15 PM

Sign Soriano to play second base. Re-sign Glavine and Floyd. Sign either Schmidt/Zito/Matsuzaka or trade Heilman-Milledge for a front of the rotation guy.

Nymr83
Nov 01 2006 02:59 PM

i wouldnt re-sign Floyd, he's got an awful lot of injury issues.
while i really don't like Soriano i'd sign him IF it didnt interfere with signing a top starter. he's so much better than the other crap out there that it could be the best move even if he gets way overpaid and isn't a good defender. that said, i'd hope the Mets sign him with the understanding that he will play where we tell him to play (meaning LF if we decide we have a better option at 2B.) its bad enough out of a pre-FA guy trying to cash in on being a secondbaseman, but with a 6 year deal in your pocket and 80 million dollars you really need to be more of a team player

patona314
Nov 01 2006 03:15 PM

Nymr83 wrote:
i wouldnt re-sign Floyd, he's got an awful lot of injury issues.
while i really don't like Soriano i'd sign him IF it didnt interfere with signing a top starter. he's so much better than the other crap out there that it could be the best move even if he gets way overpaid and isn't a good defender. that said, i'd hope the Mets sign him with the understanding that he will play where we tell him to play (meaning LF if we decide we have a better option at 2B.) its bad enough out of a pre-FA guy trying to cash in on being a secondbaseman, but with a 6 year deal in your pocket and 80 million dollars you really need to be more of a team player



I wouldn't sign him. He would probably bat in the 6 hole behind Wright. There would be too many strike outs between the two of them

metirish
Nov 04 2006 09:36 PM

What about Bonds got LF....he'd look damn good in that lineup....

patona314
Nov 04 2006 09:43 PM

metirish wrote:
What about Bonds got LF....he'd look damn good in that lineup....


f bonds. i'm still pissed off at him when he was a pirate. there is a guy out there called LEE if you all remember.

all said and done though. sign floyd to a 1 year contract w/a 1 year option and give milledge a chance.

milledge ain't no alex escobar.

MFS62
Nov 05 2006 10:26 AM

Neither Bonds nor Floyd is going to remind us of Cal Ripken Jr. when it comes to staying in the lineup.
No to Bonds, thanks.
And no to Cliff.
Lee would look very nice out there.

314, betcha' I didn't like Bonds before you (didn't). :)
I've posted a story about a scouting report on him when he still was in College.

Later

metirish
Nov 06 2006 11:06 AM

]

By MARK HALE
November 6, 2006 -- Mark Loretta may be one of the Mets' top choices to play second base. They have shown more interest in him than any other club so far, Loretta's agent told The Post last night.

Bob Garber, Loretta's agent, said "there's been about three phone calls" so far from the Mets. Garber said there is "mutual interest, I would say, for sure."

According to Garber, playing for a contender is Loretta's top priority. The 35-year-old Loretta hit .285 with five homers, 59 RBIs and a .345 on-base percentage this past season with the Red Sox. He is a career .299 hitter, with his best year coming in 2004 with the Padres when he hit .335 with 16 homers. Defensively, Loretta only committed four errors this past year, tying for second-best among AL second basemen.

Meanwhile, Jose Valentin's agent, Dave Elston, said yesterday that he spoke to Mets special assistant Tony Bernazard on Friday and that the parties would speak further.

Elston said he was "cautiously optimistic" about Valentin re-signing with the Mets. He admitted, though, that "half a dozen teams" have inquired about the free agent second baseman.



There's that "playing for a contender" again.

DocTee
Nov 06 2006 12:26 PM

Bay Area rumors have Pat Burrell (an area native) replacing Bonds in SF and Soriano replacing Pat the Bat in Philly.

metirish
Nov 06 2006 12:31 PM

I read where the Giants would likely have Burrell tryout at first base.

patona314
Nov 06 2006 02:54 PM

I don't think anyone in MLB wants the headache that Bonds brings with him. If the Giants don't sign him, there's a good chance no one will. He could be done.

metirish
Nov 06 2006 03:24 PM

I think some teams like like the extra bums in the seats Bonds would bring.

Vic Sage
Nov 06 2006 03:36 PM

metirish wrote:
]
By MARK HALE
November 6, 2006 -- Mark Loretta may be one of the Mets' top choices to play second base. They have shown more interest in him than any other club so far, Loretta's agent told The Post last night.


plans to fill hole at 2b:

Plan A: Soriano
Plan B: Garciaparra
Plan C: the cheapest available option from amongst: Valentin, Durham, or Loretta (and sign Aurilia as UT/backup)
Plan D: the cheapest available option from amongst: Aurilia, Kennedy, DeRosa, Lugo, Belliard, T.Walker
Plan E: Anderson Hernandez? Uh oh.

patona314
Nov 06 2006 03:54 PM
Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Nov 06 2006 03:59 PM

Vic Sage wrote:
="metirish"]
]
By MARK HALE
November 6, 2006 -- Mark Loretta may be one of the Mets' top choices to play second base. They have shown more interest in him than any other club so far, Loretta's agent told The Post last night.


plans to fill hole at 2b:

Plan A: Soriano
Plan B: Garciaparra
Plan C: the cheapest available option from amongst: Valentin, Durham, or Loretta (and sign Aurilia as UT/backup)
Plan D: the cheapest available option from amongst: Aurilia, Kennedy, DeRosa, Lugo, Belliard, T.Walker
Plan E: Anderson Hernandez? Uh oh.



i actually like plan E. this kid can play D and the way things are going for MLB pitching in general. defense is the way to go to improve pitching. we'll have plenty of boppers when evrything is said and done.

metirish
Nov 06 2006 03:57 PM

Yeah but at the least you would want Hernandez to hit a bit,like .240 even.

Yancy Street Gang
Nov 06 2006 04:09 PM

Time may prove me wrong, but the way I see it, Anderson Hernandez = Rey Ordonez.

Been there, done that.

Pass.

Edgy DC
Nov 06 2006 04:15 PM

Well, apart from one or two highlight reel catches and a late-season homer, he's neither fielded nor hit up to Ordoñez's standards.

Nor is he being paid like Rey, so the comparison is only so useful.

I think he'll go as far as his performance justifies. He'll have to play his way back onto the roster and play his way back into the lineup. He won't be handed anything again. There's no reason to think he's necessarily ahead of Ruben Gotay right now.

Johnny Dickshot
Nov 06 2006 06:50 PM

Let's all right now disabuse ourselves of the notion that we can afford a 2nd baseman (or any position) who cannot hit. That doesn't mean AHernandez is out, just that he has to hit to be in.

Nymr83
Nov 06 2006 07:45 PM

I would have to put Lugo in the same group of options with Durham, Valentin, and Loretta, and not with the likes of Belliard and Walker

KC
Nov 06 2006 08:00 PM

Warms my ostrich neck to see that a thread or two can bring up Rey still.

Wonder what the hell he's up to. Weird life story, weird career, boom boom.

MFS62
Nov 06 2006 08:11 PM

For all of us who have been holding our breath:

]Carlos Delgado-1B- Mets Nov. 6 - 6:53 pm et


Mets GM Omar Minaya said Carlos Delgado and his agent, David Sloane, have informed the club that the first baseman does not plan to exercise his right to demand a trade this offseason.

"Carlos has notified us that he is very happy to be here," Minaya said. "He enjoys being with the New York Mets and enjoys being in the city. He enjoys everything about this organization." It was obvious Delgado wasn't interested in leaving, but it looked like he might use the possibility as leverage to get his 2009 option picked up. Minaya said that the idea was briefly discussed. "I'm hopeful that at some point in time, we will exercise that option," Minaya said. "Right now, we feel it's not the right time, but I'm hoping he plays and we're able to exercise that option the year we go into the new stadium."
Source: Mets.mlb.com


His leaving didn't seem likely, but it was possible.

Later

Edgy DC
Nov 06 2006 08:54 PM
Edited 2 time(s), most recently on Nov 07 2006 09:46 AM

Sage's Plan C Group:
Player / Age / Career OPS+
Durham / 35 / 106
Loretta / 35 / 101
Valentin / 37 / 96

Sage's Plan D Group:
Player / Age / Career OPS+
Aurilia / 35 / 104
Kennedy / 31 / 92
DeRosa / 32 / 90
Lugo / 31 / 92

I can see bumping Aurilia up and/or dropping Valentin down, but I see no reason to recommend a Lugo upgrade.

metirish
Nov 06 2006 08:58 PM

What happened to Aurilia the last few seasons,he was brilliant in SF and then seemed to fall of the face of the earth...

Valadius
Nov 06 2006 09:39 PM

He went to Cincy, got injured and overtaken by Felipe Lopez in '05.

smg58
Nov 06 2006 09:50 PM

He was actually very good this past year, especially against lefties (1.086 OPS, .867 over last three years). He was way over his head in 01 and bad in 04, but otherwise he's been fairly consistent.

Beyond Soriano, I just don't see anybody worth committing mutliple years to. I wonder if a Valentin/Aurillia platoon would be cost-effective.

Nymr83
Nov 06 2006 10:32 PM

="Edgy DC"]Sage's Plan C Group:
Player / Age / Career OPS+/2004/2005/2006
Durham / 35 / 106 115, 107, 127
Loretta / 35 / 101 136, 96, 82
Valentin / 37 / 96 88, 62, 112

Sage's Plan D Group:
Player / Age / Career OPS+/2004/2005/2006
Aurilia / 35 / 104 80, 99, 112
Kennedy / 31 / 92 98, 97, 90
DeRosa / 32 / 90 59, 98, 106
Lugo / 31 / 92 94, 105, 94

I can see buping Aurilia up and/or dropping Valentin down, but I see no reason to recommend a Lugo upgrade.


i amended Edgy's list to include 2004, 2005, and 2006, i don't care what these guys did years ago

if i had to order them i'd go: Durham, Aurilia, Loretta, DeRosa, Lugo, Valentin, Kennedy but thats irrespective of defense, age, and contract demands.
if i factor in my own opinions of their defense, their ages, and i assume that they all want 2 years i'd go Durham, Loretta, Aurilia, Lugo, DeRosa, Kennedy, Valentin.

Valentin was great for the Mets in 2006, but if he wanted 2 years i'd have to pass, he's the oldest man on the list and is responsible for 2 of the 5 worst seasons put up by these 7 guys in the last 3 years (21 seasons total)

I've talked about liking Loretta in the past, but with the year he had in '06 I'd hesitate to give him more than a year with a team option as well.

I've gotten the impression that DeRosa isn't very good defensively, but if i were told htat he's as good as the other guys on this list he'd be someone i'd take a gamble on along with Aurilia or Lugo.

I'd give Durham 2 years but i have a feeling he wants 3 as he's the guy with the best name recognition here and its his last big payday.

Nymr83
Nov 06 2006 10:35 PM

]Beyond Soriano, I just don't see anybody worth committing mutliple years to. I wonder if a Valentin/Aurillia platoon would be cost-effective.


a platoon in general may be more cost-effective, and just as productive, as signing a Ray Durham and a guy like Woodward to be the 2B/UT, whoever isnt playing that day is the UT, i havent looked into the lefty/righty splits for these guys to see who would be the best targets (theres also the question of who would be willing)

smg58
Nov 07 2006 08:43 AM

Durham is clearly the best hitter of the bunch. His issues are his glove and staying healthy. You'd need a contingency plan to go with him.

Loretta still has a solid glove, but his power has vanished the past two years. The nosediving OPS looks like a red flag to me.

Kennedy doesn't look good enough.

I just get a bad feeling about Lugo, I can't place it. His speed could make up some for his OPS. I don't know how well he plays second, either.

DeRosa has basically had one good year. I'd be worried about overcommitting to somebody like that, but he could repeat what he did last year.

Valentin did reinvent himself a bit last year, abandoning the all-or-nothing swing that had stopped working for him and cutting down his strikeouts without a big effect on his power. I can't see him as more than a platoon player, though, so you'd still need to find a righty bat.

I like the way Aurilia hits lefties; the Mets could use somebody like that to balance the line-up. And he can play all four infield spots. 500+ AB might be beyond him at this point, though.

I think the best options are Durham or a Valentin/Aurilia platoon, depending on who wants what for how many years.

DocTee
Nov 07 2006 09:42 AM

Aurilia had a bad spell in Seattle before returning to the NL...FWIW, he's a native New Yorker (Brooklyn) so may be gotten cheaper

Farmer Ted
Nov 07 2006 09:48 AM

Delagado doesn't request a trade, which he is entitled to. First base is locked up.

Edgy DC
Nov 07 2006 09:51 AM

So we're agreed. Valentin plus a righthanded option at second. Call Miguel Cairo.

Farmer Ted
Nov 07 2006 09:53 AM

I don't agree. I want Soriano's 40-40 in that lineup.

Edgy DC
Nov 07 2006 09:54 AM

Well, um, yeah, there's that.

Farmer Ted
Nov 07 2006 09:58 AM

Devil's advocate. It's election day, you know.

DocTee
Nov 08 2006 06:57 PM

Josh Barfield to Cleveland--

OlerudOwned
Nov 09 2006 08:45 PM

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=Aj91hW3PTyAbpx3aVJEUUmARvLYF?slug=ap-dodgers-drew&prov=ap&type=lgns

J.D. Drew has opted out of the final three years of his big LA contract, and is now an unrestricted free agent.

31 years old, oft injured, big money guy.

Is the potential .305/.436/.569 31 HR from '04 or 20 HR/100 RBI of this season worth the risk that he'll struggle to play in 100 games? Those numbers would like mighty purdy in left.

metirish
Nov 09 2006 08:51 PM

Does this team need another leftie hitter though?

OlerudOwned
Nov 09 2006 08:58 PM

In my scenario, we get Drew to take Floyd's spot, and put the switch-hitting Ray Durham (who is better when facing lefties) in at second base. Milledge can give either Drew or Green an off-day with a LHP on the mound. (And Milledge will also, like, hit better).

Johnny Dickshot
Nov 09 2006 09:15 PM

He's got to be an option now.

TransMonk
Nov 09 2006 11:37 PM

If Drew can stay healthy, he's proven that he can put up decent offensive numbers. He has to be an option.

He has played 33 games in left in his career, although none since 2003.

He was scheduled to make 11 mil per year for the final 3 on his contract...that's pretty steep for someone injured as often as he is.

On edit: And his agent is Boras.

Frayed Knot
Nov 09 2006 11:58 PM

Interesting tactic by Drew.

He's a terrific talent but there's always the injury bug. And it's not just a string of bad luck which could turn around at some point; he's got a lingering knee problem that limits his OF play and keeps him out of the lineup.
There's also ... well, just something missing from his game. He's so frustratingly unagressive at times to the point where you wonder how much he cares. I don't like to throw around that charge but he's one of the few where it think it fits.

DocTee
Nov 10 2006 10:22 AM

Biggio re-ups with Houston: 1 year $5 million

Edgy DC
Nov 10 2006 10:26 AM

Here's hoping his helmet gets unconditionally released.

seawolf17
Nov 10 2006 10:37 AM

Good for Biggio. One of my favorite players ever.

TransMonk
Nov 10 2006 10:41 AM

I agree. It's hard not to like a player who's played his entire 20 year career with one team.

It'll be nice to see him get to 3000 with the Stros.

smg58
Nov 10 2006 01:50 PM

Maybe Chris Burke is available, since the Astros seem determined not to make room for him.

Vic Sage
Nov 10 2006 02:25 PM

oh, hell, i'd take him in a heartbeat.

Yancy Street Gang
Nov 11 2006 07:09 AM

From the New York Times:

="Murray Chass"]
November 8, 2006
On Baseball

Mets Mull Prospects for Pitching
By MURRAY CHASS

When Carlos Delgado signed with Florida as a free agent two years ago, he said he chose the Marlins over the Mets because he felt they had a better chance of getting to the World Series. Delgado is a top-notch run producer, but a top-notch prognosticator he is not.

But no harm. A year later Delgado wound up with the Mets, and he helped them get close to the World Series. Now they are ready to take the next step.

In the two winters Omar Minaya has been their general manager, the Mets have done well, adding, among other players, Carlos Beltrán, Pedro Martínez, Delgado, Paul Lo Duca and Billy Wagner. The Mets, in fact, have spoiled their fans, who have come to expect sparkling additions.

Who could those additions be this off-season?

Begin with the starting pitching because the Mets’ No. 1 priority is a No. 1 starter. Tom Glavine will very likely return for a fifth season with the Mets, and Orlando Hernández may be back, too. Manager Willie Randolph also has a group of younger pitchers to consider for the rotation: Oliver Pérez, John Maine, Brian Bannister, Mike Pelfrey and Dave Williams.

But with Martínez unavailable for the first half of next season after shoulder surgery, the Mets need a No. 1. They could sign a free agent (Barry Zito?), they could win the Japanese lottery (Daisuke Matsuzaka) or they could make a trade (Dontrelle Willis?).

Minaya wouldn’t snub a top-flight free agent, but based on previous comments he has made, he likes the idea of trading for a player over signing him. Willis, then, would most likely be his No. 1 choice. He tried to persuade the Marlins to trade him last season, and they resisted. He will certainly try again.

Jake Peavy of San Diego could be another target. Peavy, a 25-year-old right-hander, had a losing record (11-14) with a division champion, but he can be a dominant pitcher. In his last 10 starts, he had a 6-3 record and a 2.86 earned run average, which lowered his season E.R.A. to 4.09 from 4.69.

•When Minaya talked to the Marlins about Willis last summer, he was not necessarily prepared to trade some of the Mets’ young prospects. His position, however, has most likely changed.

Lastings Milledge, for example, lost some of his luster in his visits to New York during the season, and the Mets would very likely be willing to include him in a package for Willis. They would also likely be willing to trade Philip Humber, the third player selected in the 2004 June draft, or another pitcher, like Bannister or Pelfrey.

Timing could be a problem in their effort to get Willis. The Mets will learn in the next day or two if they are the winning bidder for Matsuzaka, and if so, they would then have 30 days to sign him. Minaya might be able to determine in that time if he had a chance to trade for Willis, but maybe not.

If the Mets found they could get Willis, would they abandon their attempt to sign Matsuzaka? If they did that, would they violate the rules or the spirit of the posting system? No, they would not. Nothing in the posting rules provides for penalties if a club, for any reason, fails to sign the player. The club would simply lose its right to negotiate with him.

But what if the Mets were to sign Matsuzaka first? Would Minaya still try to get Willis? Given that Willis can’t be a free agent for three more years, why not?

Failing to get Matsuzaka or Willis, the Mets would most likely pursue Zito, although his price tag would very likely be higher than his status warranted. By most assessments, Zito is a No. 2 or No. 3 starter, but in this market, with so many teams desperate for pitching, he is viewed as a No. 1. In addition, his agent, Scott Boras, will market him as a No. 1 and have a book full of statistics to show to skeptical clubs.

The Mets are not guaranteed any pitcher through any means, but Minaya has established a good track record for getting what he goes after, Delgado excepted, and would have to be given a strong chance to get one of the pitchers he wants.

•Aside from pitching, the Mets need to address second base and left field. With the 50-game suspension for Guillermo Mota, a free agent the Mets had planned to re-sign, they will have to look at their bullpen, too. But they have Duaner Sánchez coming back from his shoulder injury, they still have Aaron Heilman and they could re-sign Chad Bradford.

For second base, the Mets could re-sign José Valentín, although they could not expect him to duplicate the performance he gave the Mets for much of last season. They will also consider the free agents Julio Lugo, Ron Belliard and Mark Loretta.

The best hitters available for left field in the free-agent market are Alfonso Soriano and Carlos Lee. Each will cost more than the Mets will want to spend if they sign an expensive pitcher. They signed Beltrán and Martínez two years ago, and last year they signed Wagner and took on Delgado’s expensive contract. But they won’t commit to those expenditures every year.

With their offense, though, they don’t need to spend lavishly to get a hitter of the magnitude of Soriano and Lee. They started last season with a payroll a few dollars under $100 million and wound up at $111 million. They will probably start around the same level and save some money in order to acquire a player at the July 31 trading deadline.

DocTee
Nov 12 2006 07:03 PM

Cubs re-up with Aramis Ramirez (5 years, $73 million) and Kerry Wood (1 year, $1.5 million).

Edgy DC
Nov 12 2006 09:07 PM

Wood would seem worth more than that.

Frayed Knot
Nov 12 2006 09:18 PM

Not lately

Elster88
Nov 12 2006 09:18 PM

Shit, I woulda taken him at 1 year, 3 mil.

metirish
Nov 12 2006 09:22 PM

Wood must not have the same agent as Ramirez.....he's made out good with the Cubs..

SteveJRogers
Nov 12 2006 09:25 PM

Elster88 wrote:
Shit, I woulda taken him at 1 year, 3 mil.


Eh, not sure if the reward would have been greater than the risk.

Oh sure he could turn everything around and actually be Ryan/Clemens-esque, but the way things have been around here lately, do we need the probable headache when it turns out to be a disaster? We aren't the MFY who can absorb mistakes you know

metirish
Nov 12 2006 09:31 PM

]

We aren't the MFY who can absorb mistakes you know


Sure the Mets can and have ,Howe,Cedano ,Bonilla...the list goes on, the Mets are not the Royals Steve...

Edgy DC
Nov 12 2006 09:35 PM

SteveJRogers wrote:
="Elster88"]Shit, I woulda taken him at 1 year, 3 mil.


Eh, not sure if the reward would have been greater than the risk.

Oh sure he could turn everything around and actually be Ryan/Clemens-esque, but the way things have been around here lately, do we need the probable headache when it turns out to be a disaster? We aren't the MFY who can absorb mistakes you know


I'm not sure how much of this is a joke, but I disagree with most of it.

SteveJRogers
Nov 12 2006 09:39 PM

metirish wrote:
]

We aren't the MFY who can absorb mistakes you know


Sure the Mets can and have ,Howe,Cedano ,Bonilla...the list goes on, the Mets are not the Royals Steve...


MFY absorb mistakes and still manage to win

We have mistakes and it cost us dearly. All of the aforementioned cost us. The Yankees make mistakes, it doesn't really cost them in the long run because they can send them to Baltimore or Detroit or whatever.

We get stuck, thats how we got into that particular mess after 2000

Elster88
Nov 12 2006 09:40 PM

My head is slowly exploding.

SteveJRogers
Nov 12 2006 09:44 PM

Have we not learned anything from some of the flyers we've taken over the years? Mo Vaughn?

metirish
Nov 12 2006 09:47 PM

IIRC the insurance company ended up paying for Mo.....

Edgy DC
Nov 12 2006 09:48 PM

Steve, Yankee-envy is silly.

We came within a hit of reaching the World Series. The Yankees bowed in a quick, finger-pointing first round.

At least two expensive mistakes explode into my mind that the Mets bit the bullet on this season. (1) Matsui, which they dealt with by dealing him for an iffy backup and eating a chunk of his salary; and (2) panic-dealing Nady, with a gimpy Floyd at the other corner outfield spot, which they dealt with by picking up Green.

]MFY absorb mistakes and still manage to win


Mets won more. Forget the Yankees.

metsmarathon
Nov 12 2006 09:48 PM

mo vaughn wasn't a flier. it was a poorly researched, ill executed major investment.

we took a flier on jose valentin this year. a small investment in wood would've been akin to that, not to mo vaughn.

smg58
Nov 12 2006 10:45 PM

Wood is a moot point. We never had an opportunity to negotiate with him. I didn't think the offer was out of line with his worth, given the injuries and the fact that he's resigned to being a reliever at this point. $3M would be a lot to guarantee to an injury-prone setup guy.

metirish
Nov 15 2006 11:18 AM

I wonder if this is true,from a Klapisch article.

]

And then there's organizational momentum: In terms of attracting free agents, the Mets believe they're now a match for any team, including the Yankees.

"We're hot. It's hot to be a Met, we've got a good thing going on here," said one club official. "A couple of years ago, we couldn't get Henry Blanco to come here, and that was even after we offered him more money than anyone else. He still said no. That's all changed."



If it's true then things certainly have changed.

Edgy DC
Nov 15 2006 11:21 AM

Blanco. That's pretty funny.

Yancy Street Gang
Nov 15 2006 11:29 AM

They're probably a match for any team, except sometimes the Yankees, and except when the player has a New York phobia.

I do think, though, that many players (except for those whose dads or grandpas worshipped Mickey Mantle) would judge the two New York teams equally. Deciding factors might be practical things like the presence or absence of the DH, team strength at a particular position, or friendship with a particular teammate or coach instead of nonsense reasons like aura, mystique and the "guarantee" of getting into a World Series.

And in a few years the stadium where Ruth, Gehrig, and DiMaggio played will be gone, (it's really been gone since 1973) so the Yankees won't have that anymore either, although I think they'll still claim that they do.

metirish
Nov 15 2006 11:29 AM

I suppose we got Castro instead of him...his sponsor on baseball reference has this to say....

]

still the active leader in lowest batting average for hitters with 1,000 or more career at bats.

patona314
Nov 16 2006 12:33 PM

New rumor: Soriano signs w/the bosox (7yr $105M). The bosox then turn around and deal manny to the amazin's for heilman and milledge. wow...

Frayed Knot
Nov 16 2006 01:15 PM

Does "new rumor" mean the same as "voices inside my head" ... or is there actually a grain of basis for that wild-assed speculation?

Yancy Street Gang
Nov 16 2006 01:39 PM

That trailing "wow" leads me to believe the source was external to his head.

Whether it was a reliable source or not remains to be seen.

OlerudOwned
Nov 16 2006 01:44 PM

That seems like a lot of extra work when you can just sign Soriano instead.

Frayed Knot
Nov 16 2006 01:44 PM
Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Nov 16 2006 01:52 PM

Perhaps voices inside [u:c2d00d5e8a]someone's[/u:c2d00d5e8a] head would have been a better question.

IOW, did someone who actually sniffs out this sort of stuff for a living report it or is its source more from the internet trolling, talk-show calling, fan end of things?

Not that I believe for a second that it'll happen in either case, but at least if it's from a legit source I'll be forced to consider it as a remote option.

DocTee
Nov 16 2006 01:47 PM

Windy City deal: Cubs send David Aardsma and minor leaguer to ChiSox for Lefty Neal Cotts...Aardsma is not bad.

Frayed Knot
Nov 16 2006 01:50 PM

I fnothing else, Aardsma will forever be the guy who knocked Hank Aaron out of the leadoff spot in the Baseball Encyclopedia

Yancy Street Gang
Nov 16 2006 01:51 PM

Did he get any death threats because of that?

patona314
Nov 16 2006 01:55 PM

Frayed Knot wrote:
Does "new rumor" mean the same as "voices inside my head" ... or is there actually a grain of basis for that wild-assed speculation?


http://www.metsblog.com/

look for the blog posted at 10:55 AM

Frayed Knot
Nov 16 2006 02:04 PM

That doesn't even qualify as a rumor.
It's a blogger repeating Olney's speculation that now might be a good time to deal Manny and then speculating on where he might go and what kind of package might get him there.

That's not even a rumor of a rumor.

patona314
Nov 16 2006 02:06 PM

="Frayed Knot"]That doesn't even qualify as a rumor.
It's a blogger repeating Olney's speculation that now might be a good time to deal Manny and then speculating on where he might go and what kind of package might get him there.

That's not even a rumor of a rumor.


it's called having fun talking about baseball when baseball is not being played

Edgy DC
Nov 16 2006 02:10 PM

Frayed Knot, under a different name used to batter peeps for asking if a rumor was "true" back in the day. Now he's demanding that they qualify.

In fairness, though, citing sources is a good practice.

metirish
Nov 16 2006 02:14 PM

Boston.com is speculating Drew will get 4 years $56 million..crazy or what...Theo Epstein spoke with the Mets yesterday,about what the article does not know...Omar on Lugo..same article...

]

Meanwhile, the Sox definitely appear to be the clear front-runners for shortstop Julio Lugo. "Julio Lugo is one of the best shortstops in the game," said Mets GM Omar Minaya. "I really believe Julio is an excellent defensive shortstop, let alone the fact that he can really hit. Don't sell him short defensively. I know teams are looking at him as a second baseman or whatever, but he's a major league shortstop."

Frayed Knot
Nov 16 2006 02:16 PM

]it's called having fun talking about baseball when baseball is not being played


I understand that, but there's also a big difference between random thoughts and the implication that it's an idea actively being considered.

OlerudOwned
Nov 16 2006 06:09 PM

metirish wrote:
Boston.com is speculating Drew will get 4 years $56 million..crazy or what...Theo Epstein spoke with the Mets yesterday,about what the article does not know...Omar on Lugo..same article...

]

Meanwhile, the Sox definitely appear to be the clear front-runners for shortstop Julio Lugo. "Julio Lugo is one of the best shortstops in the game," said Mets GM Omar Minaya. "I really believe Julio is an excellent defensive shortstop, let alone the fact that he can really hit. Don't sell him short defensively. I know teams are looking at him as a second baseman or whatever, but he's a major league shortstop."


Well Omar, I don't think it's the defense that people are going to sell him short on. He's really not all that good a hitter.

DocTee
Nov 19 2006 06:59 PM

MLB.com reporting that the Orioles are interested in reuniting Leo Mazzone with Tim Hudson...among those going to Atlanta would be starter Hayden Penn...would this open the door for Glavine's return to the team that Ted built?

DocTee
Nov 25 2006 05:36 PM

Six player swap: D-backs and Brewers...Johnny Estrada to Milwaukee for Doug Davis.

MFS62
Nov 25 2006 06:40 PM

The radio report I heard zipped through the other players involved. None of the names rang an immediate bell. Anyone else in that trade we might have heard of?

Later

metirish
Nov 25 2006 06:43 PM

Sure .

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2675502

A Boy Named Seo
Nov 25 2006 10:29 PM

I always dug Davis. He was pretty dern good in 04 and 05 but started walking everyone last year. Decent guy to take a chance on.

OlerudOwned
Nov 25 2006 11:25 PM

I dug Davis' creative facial hair.

duan
Nov 27 2006 06:03 AM
looks like Randy Wolf

may sign for the Dodgers[url]http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/6210860[/url], without knowing the terms it's impossible to get a read on it, but he's a guy I'd have love to have got for 1 year plus team option. At 30 and fully recovered from Tommy John, he's a good bet to return to his form of 3-4 seasons ago.

metirish
Nov 27 2006 03:50 PM

Manny trade rumors are on again......could be treaded by Saturday,Mets not mentioned in rumors which means he'll probably end up at Shea....

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2677627

Frayed Knot
Nov 27 2006 11:50 PM

The funny thing about dealing Manny now is that the money they'll save isn't nearly as substantial as it would have been in recent years.
When they first dared someone to grab him by putting him on irrevocable waivers they did so in order to get out from under the risk of his skills turning south with all that time remaining plus having that 5 x $20mil freed up to use on all kinds of players filling all kinds of holes.
Now, the risk is down to just 2 seasons left and, with the sudden and recent inflation, a mesely $40mil just doesn't go as far as it used to.

Edgy DC
Nov 28 2006 08:59 AM

Manny can also veto a trade, which he couldn't do two years ago.

duan
Nov 28 2006 09:24 AM

interestingly Manny would have got a no trade clause the moment anyone else got one, which was why the Varitek contract had this 'cute' little solution.
"Varitek will get no-trade rights once he has spent eight continuous years with the team".

presumably the sox saying that this was not a 'no-trade' clause of the standard variety and only players who had 'eight continuous years with the team' would get the benefit.

Edgy DC
Nov 28 2006 09:37 AM

I'm sorry. Are you saying that Manny has a contract clause which supercedes his 5-and-10 rights, and he cannot veto a trade?

The article says otherwise.

duan
Nov 28 2006 09:43 AM

="Edgy DC"]I'm sorry. Are you saying that Manny has a contract clause which supercedes his 5-and-10 rights, and he cannot veto a trade?

The article says otherwise.


no he's got 10 & 5 rights NOW, but in the afterglow of the world series as they were negotitating with Varitek they couldn't give him a no trade clause, as it would have triggered a no trade clause in 4 other red sox (one of whom was Ramirez). So they came up with this "rewarding loyalty" clause; couched it carefully and hoped that it would stand up legally should it come to that.

Edgy DC
Nov 29 2006 09:56 AM

Apparently Soriano used to be a Met!

metirish
Dec 04 2006 07:49 PM

Jayson Stark reports that both the Mets and Rangers made multi-year offers to Padilla today...a few hours later Jerry Crasnick is saying that Padilla is going to sign with the Rangers,also reports that Lilly to the Cubs...nothing official...it's a hot stove blog on ESPN..

smg58
Dec 04 2006 09:27 PM

I get the sense Padilla was a medium priority. The market being what it is, $34M over three years is reasonable for a 15-game winner (especially the three years). If Padilla was the guy Minaya really wanted, he could have beaten that offer.

metirish
Dec 06 2006 01:41 PM

The Dodgers, who lost three players to free agency on Tuesday, are close to reloading in a big way Wednesday.

Free-agent pitcher Jason Schmidt and the Los Angeles Dodgers are closing in on a three-year contract worth $47 million, a source told ESPN.com Wednesday.

golly

Willets Point
Dec 06 2006 01:48 PM

Scary thought: The way things are going Tom Glavine is going to be the Mets "ace" next season.

metirish
Dec 06 2006 01:50 PM

Omar will get an "ace" from the White Sox....

sharpie
Dec 06 2006 01:55 PM

Or maybe from the A's...

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/baseball/mlb/12/06/mets.athletics/index.html?cnn=yes

metirish
Dec 06 2006 01:59 PM

Are any of the guys been talked about in that link better options than Heilman?

sharpie
Dec 06 2006 02:11 PM

If Harden can stay healthy then, yes, I think he is. Big if, however.

ABG
Dec 06 2006 03:00 PM

A 25 year old pitcher who consistently throws in the high 90s, 8.28 k/9, .228 BAA, makes less than $2 million, etc? I like Heilman too, but lets not be ridiculous here.

metirish
Dec 06 2006 03:07 PM

Well,I should have added is Harden worth Heilman and Milledge...

attgig
Dec 06 2006 03:28 PM

that's a lot of money for schmidt (3/47). i wonder what zeetoe's worth now...

ABG
Dec 06 2006 03:38 PM

metirish wrote:
Well,I should have added is Harden worth Heilman and Milledge...

Yes.

ScarletKnight41
Dec 06 2006 03:39 PM

I like Rich Harden, but he does seem to go down with injuries very frequently.

I don't like Joe Blanton - he's inconsistent at best.

Yancy Street Gang
Dec 06 2006 03:42 PM

I wonder if the Devil Rays are still thinking of changing their name.

Frayed Knot
Dec 06 2006 04:32 PM

Ted Lilly apparently down to the Cubs and Yanx as Jays have dropped out.
Cubs have offered 4 yrs; Yanx will meet w/him to counter.

Kind of interesting in that supposedly the reason the Yanx bid on that other Japanese pitcher (Igawa?) is that his $25mil would NOT be subject to the LuxTax (now at 40% for all additions to NYY payroll) and they could pay him at less than market rates to be their #5-type starter.
Now, if they go through on Lilly, it's maybe a sign that they're not as sure on the Japanese guy as $30-some mil payout would indicate. Also a sign that they're not buying this notion about Pettitte maybe coming back.

Elster88
Dec 06 2006 07:53 PM

Never mind

metirish
Dec 07 2006 11:22 AM

The Gil Meche sweepstakes are nearly over, and the Kansas City Royals are looking like the winners.

ESPN's Steve Phillips reported Thursday that the Royals were closing in on a four-year deal with the right-hander worth a reported $45 million.

Meche, a six-year veteran, has a career record of 55-44 and a 4.65 earned-run average, all with the Seattle Mariners. He was 11-8 for the Mariners last season with a 4.48 ERA.

The Toronto Blue Jays and Chicago Cubs were also in the running for Meche.

Edgy DC
Dec 07 2006 11:27 AM
Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Dec 07 2006 12:58 PM

Got to be the biggest contract by far in Royals histroy, huh?

Seems like a poor way to blow your new revenue-sharing windfall.

metirish
Dec 07 2006 12:48 PM

Apparently the Cards want to talk to Bonds....

smg58
Dec 07 2006 12:52 PM

$11M per year for a guy with a career 4.65 ERA. $10M per year for Ted Lilly and his 4.60 career ERA. And these are the "bargains"?

metirish
Dec 07 2006 12:54 PM

smg58 wrote:
$11M per year for a guy with a career 4.65 ERA. $10M per year for Ted Lilly and his 4.60 career ERA. And these are the "bargains"?


The life of mediocre pitchers,seeing some of the other deals makes me wish I was a washed up baseball player..

Yancy Street Gang
Dec 07 2006 10:33 PM

Mets Press Release wrote:

The New York Mets announced today that they have signed righthanded pitcher Guillermo Mota to a two-year, $5 million contract.
Mota, 33, went 3-0 with a 1.00 ERA in 18 games with the Mets after he was acquired along with cash considerations from the Cleveland Indians in exchange for a player to be named later on August 20th. In 18.0 innings, he allowed 10 hits, two runs, earned, with five walks and 19 strikeouts.

Since 2002, the 6-6, 210-pounder ranks fourth among major league relievers with 384.0 innings. Only Scot Shields, Mike Timlin and David Weathers have pitched more.

"I feel that the bullpen was one of the keys to our success last year," said Mets General Manager Omar Minaya. "Adding Guillermo Mota strengthens our bullpen with another quality arm."

metirish
Dec 07 2006 10:41 PM
Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Dec 07 2006 10:49 PM

So how do the people that think McGwire should not be in the HOF feel about the Mets giving Mota a two year contract?..I mean Omar gave a cheat a contract..it doesn't bother me one bit...

Nymr83
Dec 07 2006 10:42 PM

5 million for getting busted with roids? i'd have offered him league minimum for 2007 with a $3mil club option for '08.

smg58
Dec 08 2006 08:41 AM

Convince me that McGwire was HOF-worthy without steroids, and he'd get my vote. (Although I'd still like to see Roger Maris get in first.)

Convince me that Mota's late-season resurgence after being traded had nothing to do with cheating, and I'm OK bringing him back.

Yancy Street Gang
Dec 08 2006 08:48 AM

That only makes sense, smg.

If Mota performed well only because he was cheating, then bringing him back is a bad move, because he (presumably) won't be able to get away with cheating again.

Edgy DC
Dec 08 2006 09:17 AM

I don't like it. But, "Omar gave a cheat a contract" isn't really a complete framing.

Omar gave a cheat a contract that starts after he serves his sentence for cheating.

It probably would be better if his suspension included being suspended from negotiating a contract until after his sentence.

metirish
Dec 09 2006 06:32 PM

From the Post

]

December 9, 2006 -- With Andy Pettitte joining fellow ground-ball specialist Chien-Ming Wang, the Yankees have shown an interest in slick-fielding first baseman Doug Mientkiewicz.

Even though Mientkiewicz is a left-handed hitter and the Yankees are seeking a right-handed bat at first, he isn't an automatic out against lefties (.274 last year). Hideki Matsui and Jason Giambi handle left-handers well, and Mientkiewicz is considered a defensive upgrade at first over right-handed hitting Shea Hillenbrand, who has talked with the Yankees.

"He catches the ball, that's a lock," a scout said of 32-year-old Mientkiewicz, who batted .283 with four homers and 43 RBIs for the Royals last season. Mientkiewicz, however, was limited to 91 games due to a back problem that resulted in postseason surgery to correct a chipped piece of bone pressing against a nerve, but he has completely recovered and will be ready for spring training.

cleonjones11
Dec 09 2006 11:30 PM

From G Mota-----"Crime does Pay!"

attgig
Dec 09 2006 11:53 PM

if he's suspended for 50 games, and we have a 2.5 mil contract, do the mets still have to pay that portion of the contract when he's suspended?

A Boy Named Seo
Dec 10 2006 04:41 PM

The [url=http://www.dfw.com/mld/dfw/sports/baseball/mlb/texas_rangers/16209438.htm]Ft. Worth Star Telegram[/url] says Eric Gagne had handful of suitors, but is leaning towards either the Rangers or Indians for around 1 year/$6 mil. He wasn't throwing hard at all last year before he went on the shelf again, but he he's never walked anybody and still has a killer change-up. I don't see why he couldn't be as effective as Trevor Hoffman. Could be a very nice pickup for someone.

Jay Satan close to a deal with the O's sez [url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/12/08/AR2006120802029.html]the Washington Post[/url].

sharpie
Dec 14 2006 09:26 AM

Jose Vidro traded to the Mariners for 2 prospects pending physicals.

Edgy DC
Dec 15 2006 11:25 AM

Allegedly contacted by the Mets about a minor-league contract and a spring training invite: Ruben Sierra.

Yancy Street Gang
Dec 15 2006 11:39 AM

They're just going to keep inviting him every year aren't they?

He's 41 years old now. Maybe they can park him in New Orleans for four or five years and then bring him up when Julio Franco retires.

Sandgnat
Dec 15 2006 01:56 PM

On ESPN Insider right now, Buster Olney has an article up "Identifying contenders' top needs" and he leads off with the Mets.

Anyone got a subscription and want to summarize for us?

Vic Sage
Dec 15 2006 02:37 PM

Do you really need somebody to pay for Olney to tell us we need an ace and a 2bman?

Yancy Street Gang
Dec 15 2006 02:42 PM

If he's arguing that the Mets need a second baseman then I'd like to pay Omar Minaya to read the article.

Vic Sage
Dec 15 2006 03:04 PM

the ace is a need, the 2bman a luxury.

I'm sure if Omar could've found a significantly better 2bman, he'd have pursued him. But the guys available (other than Soriano, who he didn't want to pay for, and Durham, who is also old and as likely to break down as Valentin) were really not signifcant upgrades.

I'd still like him to take a shot at Giles. But more important now is a frontline starter.

sharpie
Dec 15 2006 03:19 PM

I'm with Vic. Between Valentin and Easley we can probably get adequate production out of second base. If not, I'm sure Omar will go out and find us somebody else.

Farmer Ted
Dec 15 2006 03:25 PM

BoSox give up a former Mets farmhand in this deal.


ANAHEIM, Calif. -- The Los Angeles Angels traded former All-Star reliever Brendan Donnelly to the Boston Red Sox on Friday for rookie left-hander Phil Seibel.

The 35-year-old Donnelly became expendable when the Angels and reliever Justin Speier agreed to an $18 million, four-year contract.

Donnelly was 6-0 with a 3.94 ERA in 62 games last season. He had a 5-0 record and a 3.52 ERA in 29 games after the All-Star break, and held the opposition scoreless in 19 of his last 21 appearances.

Donnelly was 23-8 with a 2.87 ERA and four saves in 276 appearances with the Angels. He signed with them in as a minor league free agent in January 2001, and made his big league debut in 2002 after 10 minor league seasons with nine different organizations.

His best year was in 2003, when he allowed only two earned runs in his first 50 innings. Donnelly's 0.38 ERA was the lowest by a regular big league reliever at the All-Star break, and he was the winning pitcher in the AL's 7-6 victory over the NL in the All-Star game. He finished the season with a 1.58 ERA and a career-high three saves.

Donnelly set career highs with nine wins and 65 appearances in 2005. He was limited to 40 games in 2004 after missing the Angels' first 64 games due to a broken nose.

The 27-year-old Seibel spent the last three seasons in the Boston organization after being claimed on waivers from the New York Mets in November 2003. He pitched 3 2-3 scoreless innings in two games with the Red Sox in 2004.

Seibel went 6-3 with a 1.24 ERA for three Boston farm clubs last season. He didn't pitch in 2005 after undergoing reconstructive surgery on his pitching elbow following the 2004 season.

Before turning professional, Seibel pitched three seasons for the University of Texas.

Frayed Knot
Dec 15 2006 04:26 PM

Wonder if the Sox will try to use Donnely as their closer since they intend to move Papelbon into the rotation and I'm not sure that their draft pick from L.I. & St. John's is up to the job yet.



In other news, Toronto and Vernon Wells apparently close to a deal for right around Beltran money. Wells would have been a FA after next season.

Nymr83
Dec 15 2006 05:15 PM

Wells just turned 28, he has a 112 OPS+ for his 8 year career (3 of which were partial seasons, 1 of those was only a couple of games.)
When the Mets signed Beltran he was also 28, he has a 114 OPS+ now, which i assume was a few points lower when he signed (96 and 153 since) after 7 (1 partial) seasons.
Beltran is certainly the better baserunner and imo the far better defender (though Wells is good enough in CF.) considering the present market i can't knock them for giving him "Beltran money"

DocTee
Dec 22 2006 10:43 AM

Jeff Conine-- a career .300 hitter against lefties --goes from Philadelphia to Cincinnati. Will platoon at 1B and spell Ryan Freel in the OF. At $2 million for 2007, the Reds found him worth two prospects.

DocTee
Dec 23 2006 03:33 PM

Texas lands ChiSox' Brandon McCarthy in 5- player deal.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2707317

metirish
Jan 17 2007 10:39 PM

The Pittsburgh Pirates, filling their need for a left-handed power bat, acquired first baseman Adam LaRoche from the Atlanta Braves on Wednesday for lefty reliever Mike Gonzalez.


The Beaver (Pa.) County Times is reporting that the Braves will also receive minor league shortstop Brent Lillibridge in the deal, while minor league outfielder Jamie Romak will be going to Pittsburgh along with LaRoche.

iramets
Jan 17 2007 10:53 PM

metirish wrote:
The Pittsburgh Pirates, filling their need for a left-handed power bat, acquired first baseman Adam LaRoche from the Atlanta Braves on Wednesday for lefty reliever Mike Gonzalez.


The Beaver (Pa.) County Times is reporting that the Braves will also receive minor league shortstop Brent Lillibridge in the deal, while minor league outfielder Jamie Romak will be going to Pittsburgh along with LaRoche.
Supposedly (WFAN tonight) this deal puts the kibosh on Bernie Williams' Yankee career, in that the Yankees were looking to deal Melky Cabrera for Gonzales. Now Melky is likely to stay, so Bernie's out of a job. The question was: Does he retire a Yankee or play elsewhere? Personaly I don't think he has to do either. If he stays in shape, maybe becomes outfield coach or some dumb thing, and sticks around, it's a matter of weeks before some Yankee OFer pulls a groin muscle (maybe even his own--rimshot!) and Bernie goes on to play a few more years. That's how I'm betting anyway.

Oh, it wasn;t WFAN--it was Michael Kay.

cleonjones11
Jan 17 2007 11:58 PM

Nice trade for Pirates....LaRoche seems to have more of a ceiling.

Bernie can make classical guitar instructional videos with Esteban...no.not Loizia..

smg58
Jan 18 2007 09:52 AM

cleonjones11 wrote:
Nice trade for Pirates....LaRoche seems to have more of a ceiling.


The Braves are doing 90 in the wrong direction. They might not beat out the Nationals this year. Neither LaRoche nor Giles is making that much, but they were evidently too expensive to keep even in this market. I'm surprised Schuerholz and Cox are sticking around. A few more years of this and they'll be the Devil Rays minus the good prospects.

smg58
Jan 18 2007 10:01 AM

After looking at Lillibridge's numbers, he does have excellent potential as a leadoff hitter down the road. This makes the deal more palatable for Atlanta, but he's still two years away. So maybe they'll be the D-Rays with a couple of good prospects.

Nymr83
Jan 19 2007 12:53 AM

LaRoche is 27 years old, he's played the last 2 full seasons and alot of 2004. he has a .274/.337/.504 (114 ops+) career line which was .285/.354/.561 (133 ops+) this past season (for comparison, Delgado was .265/.361/.548, a 134 ops+ this past year.)

Gonzalez is 28, he's thrown 155.7 innings in his career with 116 hits, 74 walks, 183 k's, a 2.37 ERA and a 1.221 WHIP. good numbers for a young relief pitcher, but I still have to question giving up LaRoche to get him.

The braves had already traded Horacio Ramirez for Rafael Soriano, who is imo better than Gonzalez.

Lillibridge's stats are indeed impressive, and its nice to see that the mid-season move from low-a to high-a didn't hurt his OBP (though his power suffered.) I am a bit concerned about the 104 strikeouts (I don't mind strikeouts from major leaguers, an out is an out, but from guys in the low minors the inability to make contact against that level of pitching leaves me with concerns about what will happen to them at higher levels.)

Nymr83
Jan 19 2007 01:07 AM

the Braves have signed ex-Pirate Craig Wilson for 1 year and $2 million dollars. I still don't like their trade, but it makes alot more sense now.

Wilson, who is 29, hit pretty well for Pit last year, but was a bust sitting the Yankee bench. his overall line was .251/.314/.446, his 2005 line was .264/.387/.421 in ~250 PA. his 6-year career line is .265/.354/.480 with a 115 OPS+.

He's not the hitter LaRoche is, but its a good signing.

Edgy DC
Jan 19 2007 07:45 AM

I think the Bravos also like the minor league shortstop they got.

duan
Jan 19 2007 09:30 AM

Edgy DC wrote:
I think the Bravos also like the minor league shortstop they got.


23/24 and high A ball, mean that he's got a way to go yet.

Edgy DC
Jan 19 2007 09:34 AM

Doesn't mean they don't also like him.

smg58
Jan 19 2007 01:33 PM

Nymr83 wrote:
the Braves have signed ex-Pirate Craig Wilson for 1 year and $2 million dollars. I still don't like their trade, but it makes alot more sense now.

Wilson, who is 29, hit pretty well for Pit last year, but was a bust sitting the Yankee bench. his overall line was .251/.314/.446, his 2005 line was .264/.387/.421 in ~250 PA. his 6-year career line is .265/.354/.480 with a 115 OPS+.

He's not the hitter LaRoche is, but its a good signing.


That's great value. For that price he'd have made an excellent platoon with Green, and could conceivably have beaten him out. I don't think he got enough AB's with the Yanks to get going, so I wouldn't make anything negative out of his time in the Bronx.

I still don't like the LaRoche trade either, but adding Wilson should keep the Braves from sliding backwards. I don't see them moving forwards any, though.

Edgy DC
Jan 19 2007 01:41 PM

Somebody track a Braves forum and see what the reaction on the street is.

metirish
Jan 19 2007 02:24 PM

Edgy DC wrote:
Somebody track a Braves forum and see what the reaction on the street is.


I've been reading a Braves blog on ajc.com ,reaction seems split,no surprise there...what I found even more interesting is that the blogger David O'Brien listed his top ten Braves ever and his top ten bands ever....here they are

]

By Dave O'Brien | Monday, January 8, 2007, 04:01 PM

The Atlanta Journal-Constitution

On the day of football’s national championship and the announcement of Bobby Petrino as new Falcons coach, the biggest story nonetheless, at least to me, was R.E.M.’s election into the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame. Damn straight.

And so, I’m devoting this Braves/Man in Black blog to two favorite topics: The Braves and rock ‘n roll. Feel free to talk pigskin if you want, but this blog, should you choose to take part, is going to require undivided attention.

And this exercise is undoubtedly going to raise some arguments. It better, or you folks aren’t nearly opinionated enough.

Here’s what we’re going to do. What we’ve done. Ranked the top 10 Atlanta Braves players — repeat, ATLANTA Braves — and top 10 rock bands of the past 25 years (bands are eligible for the Hall 25 years after their first record, and R.E.M.’s going in on the first ballot).

Keep in mind, this eliminates some great Braves who played all or most of their career with the Milwaukee Braves or with other teams, and eliminates a lot of rock bands who were already big before 1982, bands such as The Clash, Allman Brothers, X, Ramones, Lynyrd Skynyrd, Pretenders, Talking Heads, Van Halen, Kiss — or Led Zep and the Stones, obviously. And also Husker Du, one of my personal faves.

(LATE EDITED CHANGE TO MY LIST: I dropped U2 after determining they were sufficiently big following pre-1982 releases of Boy and October albums, though they obviously got far bigger in the past 25 years. That’s why there’s going to be confusion when you read some posts before the change was made. Anyway, back to our blog, as filed earlier today.)

It also eliminates Bon Jovi and Journey, because I said GOOD bands, not cheesy bands that sold a lot of albums. Oh, that ought to get a couple responses right there. And for these purposes, we’ll consider Elvis Costello, Prince and others as solo artists, though they released plenty of sensational CDs in this era with bands (the Attractions, the Revolution).

Now, this is just my list, and I’m certain that very few of you are probably going to agree with all or most of my bands. That’s fine. This is about personal tastes, and, personally, I don’t care how many albums a band sells.

Also, a few of my very favorite bands, like Drive-By Truckers, Black Keys and Calexico, haven’t been around quite long enough or made quite a big enough impact to make my list, not like these 10 have. I cheated on Wilco and combined them with the band they stemmed from, Uncle Tupelo.

I though of including Public Enemy, but in the end I decided we needed to confine this to rock bands or it just gets unwieldy. Though I could argue Public Enemy rocked harder than some bands on my list, and have had a bigger impact.

Radiohead, Pearl Jam, Social Distortion, Pavement, Blur, Morphine, Oasis, Metallica, Flaming Lips, Red Hot Chili Peppers … a lot of great bands got left off my list. But I wanted to keep it to 10 to make it tougher to pick.

Now, as for the Braves list, I think we’ll probably agree on most of the guys on the list, but the hard part of that was ranking them. Unlike the bands, we’re ranking the players by their greatness, their impact while with the Braves.

To me, guys like Andres Galarraga, Terry Pendleton, Denny Neagle, Mark Wohlers and — OK, I’ll say it — John Rocker weren’t with the team long enough to make this list, though they may have had a few spectacular seasons in Atlanta.

And I admit, it’s splitting hairs on some of these guys. A year or two ago, I would still have had Dale Murphy ahead of Chipper, but as Hoss has passed Murph in a few major club records, I’ve gotta go with Chipper.

Also, though some may say it’s obvious because Niekro’s in the Hall of Fame, I really debated whether to rank him ahead of Glavine. If you look at their career numbers with Atlanta, it’d be easy to go with Glavine. And how to rank, say, Andruw compared to Chipper and Smoltz?

Javy Lopez was the toughest call, and he got the nod from me only because he was around twice as long as Terry Pendleton and a bit longer than Rafael Furcal. I wouldn’t argue strongly with anyone who chose two ahead of Javy, though.

It’s highly subjective and I might have a different opinion by the end of the season. Or the week. Who knows? But it’s fun, I think you’ll agree, to go through and try to rank them. Get out your reference books, or get ready to go back and forth to Baseball Reference or your favorite website for comparisons.

And if you want to skip either list, feel free. No worries.

Top 10 Atlanta Braves (in order)

1) Hank Aaron

2) Greg Maddux

3) Phil Niekro

4) Tom Glavine

5) Chipper Jones

6) Dale Murphy

7) Andruw Jones

8) John Smoltz

9) David Justice

10) Javy Lopez

Top 10 Bands of 25 years (no particular order)

Jane’s Addiction

The Replacements

The Waterboys

The Pogues

The Smiths

R.E.M.

Nirvana

Guns & Roses

Pixies

Wilco/Uncle Tupelo

Edgy DC
Jan 19 2007 02:30 PM

]I dropped U2 after determining they were sufficiently big following pre-1982 releases of Boy and October albums, though they obviously got far bigger in the past 25 years. That’s why there’s going to be confusion when you read some posts before the change was made. Anyway, back to our blog, as filed earlier today.)


Hank Aaron was pretty big before coming to Atlanta also.

Edgy DC
Jan 19 2007 02:45 PM
Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jan 19 2007 03:00 PM

Bottom ten Braves lesser Braves that still stick in my craw:

10) Zane Smith
9) Glenn Hubbard
8) Otis Nixon
7) Jeff Blauser
6) Kent Mercker
5) Dion James and Deion Sanders, who will be inextricably conflated in my memory before I turn 50 anyhow
4) Mark Lemke
3) John Thomson and his stupid flag
2) Keith Lockhart
1) Keith Lockhart

metirish
Jan 19 2007 02:49 PM

Brian Jordan would make my list of Braves that stick in my craw(love that word)

Yancy Street Gang
Jan 19 2007 02:52 PM

You really should have your craw cleaned out twice a year.

Frayed Knot
Jan 20 2007 08:47 AM

David Wells and the Pads agree to one more go 'round.


And the Cubs throw major bucks - and a Major League contract - at last year's 5th round draftee Jeff Samardzija (bless you) in order to entice him out of entering the NFL draft. Picked by many to be a 1st round pick as a wide receiver, the Notre Dame RHP will take his 90+ heater to Chicago instead.
I always get a kick out of it when this kind of thing happens -- even if only to hear the football commentators (ie. most of the national media) talk about either what a mistake he's making, or about how he's taking the "easy way out" by choosing not to get hit all the time. In their world, no one who can go to the NFL should ever opt not to.

Edgy DC
Jan 20 2007 09:32 AM

In my world, no one who can get his contract guaranteed should ever opt not to.

Frayed Knot
Jan 20 2007 10:17 AM

What the crying commentators [u:f66a6d20f1]should[/u:f66a6d20f1] say, of course, is that if the NFL doesn't want to let these players get away they ought to start offereing contracts with larger guarantees and more control over their future.
I'm not going to hold my breath until that happens however. The football media LOVES the fact that the league holds the hammer over the players and that their union docilely accepts it..

Edgy DC
Jan 20 2007 12:00 PM

In my world, no one who can

a) get a chance to avoid the NFL's salary cap late in his career, but
b) early in his career use the threat of the NFL to avoid the salary constriction of what remains of MLB's reserve clause
should ever opt not to.

Edgy DC
Jan 20 2007 12:02 PM

Oh, and a strong argument here for the non-dying-ness of baseball.

Nymr83
Jan 20 2007 05:47 PM

baseball is healthier than ever, but whats that got to do with this thread?

Edgy DC
Jan 20 2007 10:49 PM

An athlete with the opportunity to choose between two major sports chose MLB, and that speaks well of baseball.

SteveJRogers
Jan 21 2007 12:42 AM

Edgy DC wrote:
An athlete with the opportunity to choose between two major sports chose MLB, and that speaks well of baseball.


It would be the same if he choose a chance to play on the PGA as opposed to the NFL

Or even if a Major Indoor Lacrosse League (if it still exists) franchise offered him the same contract that the Cubs put on the table

Same difference, you can't chalk it up to the health of the sport he chose, though he clearly was thinking about his own health! =;)

Nymr83
Jan 21 2007 12:58 AM

Edgy DC wrote:
An athlete with the opportunity to choose between two major sports chose MLB, and that speaks well of baseball.


I was going to make a different argument, an athlete chooses baseball because the money is generally gauranteed as of where in football it isn't.
It could certainly be seen as an indication of the good health of baseball that the owners see no problem with handing out gauranteed money even over 7 year deals and the fact that franchises like the Royals can give 5 year 55 million dollar deals to mediocre (at best) pitchers....it might not have been a good baseball decision but it says alot for the health of the sport that a deal like that can be handed out.

Edgy DC
Jan 21 2007 07:57 AM

SteveJRogers wrote:
="Edgy DC"]An athlete with the opportunity to choose between two major sports chose MLB, and that speaks well of baseball.


It would be the same if he choose a chance to play on the PGA as opposed to the NFL


What would be the same?

SteveJRogers wrote:
Or even if a Major Indoor Lacrosse League (if it still exists) franchise offered him the same contract that the Cubs put on the table


No Steve, you are steeped in wrongness.

SteveJRogers wrote:
Same difference, you can't chalk it up to the health of the sport he chose, though he clearly was thinking about his own health! =;)


I didn't chalk anything up. I said it speaks well. It does.

SteveJRogers
Jan 21 2007 09:27 AM

="Edgy DC"]
SteveJRogers wrote:
="Edgy DC"]An athlete with the opportunity to choose between two major sports chose MLB, and that speaks well of baseball.
]

It would be the same if he choose a chance to play on the PGA as opposed to the NFL


What would be the same?


The decision to go with something that would be A) just as lucrative (if he had the same talent as a collegite golfer as opposed to a baseball pitcher) and B) just as safe (and safer than baseball actually) than the NFL.

More about just someone making a personal choice than speaking well of a sport.

Did 1993 Heisman Trophy winner Charlie Ward's decision to sign with the Knicks speak well for the NBA?

SteveJRogers wrote:
Or even if a Major Indoor Lacrosse League (if it still exists) franchise offered him the same contract that the Cubs put on the table


No Steve, you are steeped in wrongness.


No, it's the SAME EXACT thing. The kid just chose one activity over another. Hell if he had the same opportunity to to join the NY Times would that speak well for newspappers? No because the print media is actually a dying entiy in today's society. Or pick any troubled Fortune 500 company.

metsmarathon
Jan 21 2007 11:15 AM

the point is, partly, that those troubled entities cannot afford to give out such contracts, while baseball can.

Edgy DC
Jan 21 2007 01:52 PM

]Did 1993 Heisman Trophy winner Charlie Ward's decision to sign with the Knicks speak well for the NBA?


Of course it did.

Creeps, Steve, you yourself argued that part of the deathknell for baseball can be heard in people choosing other sports. Now somebody --- an educated uncompromised individual --- chooses baseball (as a fifth round draft choice, when he looked like a first-rounder, if I understand it, for the NFL), and it's irrelevant?

SteveJRogers
Jan 21 2007 02:29 PM

Edgy DC wrote:
]Did 1993 Heisman Trophy winner Charlie Ward's decision to sign with the Knicks speak well for the NBA?


Of course it did.

Creeps, Steve, you yourself argued that part of the deathknell for baseball can be heard in people choosing other sports. Now somebody --- an educated uncompromised individual --- chooses baseball (as a fifth round draft choice, when he looked like a first-rounder, if I understand it, for the NFL), and it's irrelevant?


That was a reference to a movement, (urban youths trending towards NBA and NFL) not a singular example.

Like I said, if the kid was just as talented in lacrosse as he is in baseball and enticed by the Major Indor LAX league (or whatever pro-LAX league is out there) it doesn't speak for the health of said pro-LAX league

cooby
Jan 21 2007 02:49 PM

Must...stop....reading...this thread....

dinosaur jesus
Jan 21 2007 02:52 PM

One player opts for baseball. Not exactly a trend. The big advantage that football has--regardless of which sport is more popular--is that if you're drafted in the high rounds, you're usually on the team right away, rather than having to take your chances working through the minors. It's hard to compete with that.

SteveJRogers
Jan 21 2007 02:56 PM

Plus, no one is coming out and saying it, but I wonder how much "reverse racism" has to do with Samardzija's decision.

Granted there are white wide receivers out there, but many are put into pigeonhole type of situations or treated more of a "gutsy grinder" and generally aren't considered "first option wide outs" and he probably was told by "his people" that he had a much better chance at "superstardom" if he pursued pitching as opposed to the NFL.

Though considering Sweet Lou's philosophy about pitching is the same as Dallas Baker (that was intentional) not sure if the Cub organization was the right place to go!

Edgy DC
Jan 21 2007 03:52 PM

I didn't claim it's a trend. I said it, in itself, speaks well. Please take what I say for what I say.

]Like I said, if the kid was just as talented in lacrosse as he is in baseball and enticed by the Major Indor LAX league (or whatever pro-LAX league is out there) it doesn't speak for the health of said pro-LAX league.


In the same sense that increased revenues and profits doesn't speak for the health of the league? Of course it does. It's not the last word, but of course it does.

I have no interest in indulging the speculative argument about the player fleeing racial discrimination.

SteveJRogers
Jan 21 2007 04:27 PM

Edgy DC wrote:
I didn't claim it's a trend. I said it, in itself, speaks well. Please take what I say for what I say.

]Like I said, if the kid was just as talented in lacrosse as he is in baseball and enticed by the Major Indor LAX league (or whatever pro-LAX league is out there) it doesn't speak for the health of said pro-LAX league.


In the same sense that increased revenues and profits doesn't speak for the health of the league? Of course it does. It's not the last word, but of course it does.

I have no interest in indulging the speculative argument about the player fleeing racial discrimination.


Fair enough

SteveJRogers
Jan 21 2007 04:32 PM

....

[url=http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20070121&content_id=1783475&vkey=hotstove2006&fext=.jsp]Chase Utley gets a nice 7 year, 85 mil extention with the Phillies[/url]

Ryan Howard's payday is fast approaching!

Yancy Street Gang
Jan 21 2007 05:22 PM

Oh well. I was hoping the Mets would be able to Poach Utley in a couple of years.

smg58
Jan 21 2007 06:33 PM

You're going to see fewer and fewer high-profile young guys hit the open market. The benefits generally outweigh the risks for both sides.

DocTee
Jan 21 2007 06:35 PM

Can this be true? If so, the Cubs are the most generous team in sports.


[url]http://newyork.mets.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20070121&content_id=1783591&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb[/url]

Among the items being given away on the 2007 promotions calendar are iPod nanos, Lou Piniella bobblehead dolls, Andre Dawson road jerseys, bears from the "Build-A-Bear Workshop," and Ryne Sandberg No. 23 player caps. ... The "Race to Wrigley" 5-K run will be held March 31.

dinosaur jesus
Jan 21 2007 08:26 PM

That's not a Lou Piniella bobblehead. That's what his head always looks like.

cleonjones11
Jan 21 2007 11:23 PM

Wasn't Charlie Ward billed as the best QB in NY when he was a Knick?

It's not my money we we spend on whoever but it will probably cost 75 bucks just to walk into this new Met ballpark

The Sports/Industrial complex...no healthcare for all

iramets
Jan 22 2007 08:13 AM

Yancy Street Gang wrote:
Oh well. I was hoping the Mets would be able to Poach Utley in a couple of years.


Oh, they can. All that has to happen is for him to have three or four off-years in a row, and then the Mets will pick up the remainder of his high-priced, no-performance contract that they'll try to sell to the fan base as "Hey, this is CHASE UTLEY! Don't you remember how he used to kill us way back when? Well, we've got him--it's the same guy--and only 12 million per year, too! Yay on us!"

Yancy Street Gang
Jan 22 2007 09:04 AM

Sounds like a plan!

Rockin' Doc
Jan 22 2007 12:49 PM

Finally, we've been shown the plan. Quick, somebody call ambler.

smg58
Jan 22 2007 02:08 PM

iramets wrote:
Oh, they can. All that has to happen is for him to have three or four off-years in a row,


Well hey, if that happens the Phillies don't come within ten games of us the rest of the decade! I like it already!

MFS62
Jan 23 2007 11:37 AM

From today's NY Post:

Today in Venezuela, the Mets will see Victor Zambrano throw for the second time, according to agent Peter Greenberg.

The Mets are one of five or six teams, according to Greenberg, who are interested in Zambrano and the pitcher - who had Tommy John surgery last May 15 - could possibly have a decision later this week.

Johnny Dickshot
Jan 23 2007 11:50 AM

We need to re-sign VZ to keep the Tim Bogar Trade Chain alive. That, or root for that minor-league ctacher we received for Victor Diaz.