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2ND BASE

Vic Sage Nov 09 2006 12:12 PM

The Padres just traded Josh Barfield for 2 prospects. If Barfield was on the block, should we have offered milledge? Barfield is exactly the kind of young, fast, powerful, cheap, good defensive 2bman I'd love to have. Too bad we missed out on him. Back to the options: 1) Soriano - Philly wants him for LF. He'll likely get too many years and too much $$ to be worth acquiring. I still hope we'll take a shot at him. 5yr/$75m. If he goes for more, so be it. 2) Garciaparra - probably will re-sign with LA, but, despite health concerns, is the kind of bat i'd love to have at 2b. 3 yr/$27m, ($33m with incentives). 3) Durham - coming off a great year, but injuries still an issue.(3 yr/$25m) 4) Valentin, Aurilia, Loretta, Kennedy, DeRosa, Lugo, Belliard, T.Walker - Mediocrities, one and all. A Valentin/Aurilia platoon might work. 5) Anderson Hernandez, Gotay - minor leaguers with no bat. Other Options?

Edgy DC Nov 09 2006 12:15 PM

Um, Matsui?

patona314 Nov 09 2006 12:41 PM

5) Anderson Hernandez, Gotay - minor leaguers with (maybe) no bat. sticking to my guns on this one, spend the $$$ elsewhere. Pitching and Defense wins pennants.

OlerudOwned Nov 09 2006 12:44 PM

Pitching and defense were great in Game 7 but I don't see a pennant to show for it. Gimmie a bat.

patona314 Nov 09 2006 12:47 PM

OlerudOwned wrote: Pitching and defense were great in Game 7 but I don't see a pennant to show for it. Gimmie a bat. I'm pretty sure you'll get your bats, theyll just be be playing LF and RF. My personal opinion is that Green is History.

metirish Nov 09 2006 12:50 PM

You think Omar will look to move Green?, he's owed $12M IIRC,Mets would have to eat a big chunk of that to trade him I would think.

patona314 Nov 09 2006 12:55 PM

metirish wrote: You think Omar will look to move Green?, he's owed $12M IIRC,Mets would have to eat a big chunk of that to trade him I would think. D-Backs are paying 6M of the 12M. The mets could pick up 3M and some team will get an average RF w/some pop for 3M

RealityChuck Nov 09 2006 01:08 PM

Green has a full no-trade clause. He was willing to waive it to play in the postseason, but it's another issue entirely if the Mets try to trade him anywhere else.

Yancy Street Gang Nov 09 2006 01:23 PM

I think Green will be back. And I'd HATE to see Anderson Hernandez get the 2B job. The Mets have a whole winter to get somebody better than that. And I'm sure that they will.

patona314 Nov 09 2006 01:25 PM

RealityChuck wrote: Green has a full no-trade clause. He was willing to waive it to play in the postseason, but it's another issue entirely if the Mets try to trade him anywhere else. I forgot about that....

A Boy Named Seo Nov 09 2006 01:59 PM

]2) Garciaparra - probably will re-sign with LA, but, despite health concerns, is the kind of bat i'd love to have at 2b. 3 yr/$27m, ($33m with incentives). Nomar barely made it through one year in LA at first base. I don't think there's any way he could play in the middle of the infield again and not have his legs explode. I don't think he's a real option (especially for 3 years) and bet he ends up somewhere else with a similar 1-year/$10 mil deal like he got last year. I think the Dodgers are ready to go with James Loney and would be be surprised if he would up back there either.

Frayed Knot Nov 09 2006 02:13 PM

- I could see giving Garciaparra or Durham shots - but not with 3-year deals. Too risky. - The Mets, btw, are "talking to" Valentin according to several published reports. A good move IMO so long as it's not the sole option. - Anderson Hernadez hasn't come close to showing that he can hit well enough to hold down a full-time ML job. NO ONE is that good a fielder. - Adam Kennedy is only 31, but he sure has declined in the last few years. Not sure what to make of him.

smg58 Nov 09 2006 02:55 PM

Hernandez needs another year at AAA before I could consider him again. He'd have to prove at least that he could hit decently over a full season there. I think Milledge has more upside than Barfield, but sure I'd have liked to have known Barfield was available. Then again, the Padres seemed determined to find a third baseman, and we only have one and he's not going anywhere. Something tells me 5 years and $75M won't be enough to get Soriano. Nomar at second? I'm not sure the rewards outweigh the risks. He only had two more HR's than Valentin last year. You might wind up overpaying for the name. How good is Durham with the glove at this point? Nothing wrong with his bat, but age, health, and defense would make me balk at three years. Two years and I'm interested, though.

patona314 Nov 09 2006 03:03 PM

"Something tells me 5 years and $75M won't be enough to get Soriano. " I'm hearing 5 years - $100M and not a penny under.

metirish Nov 09 2006 03:20 PM

] I'm hearing 5 years - $100M and not a penny under. Must be going to Texas then....

Frayed Knot Nov 09 2006 03:27 PM

]I'm hearing 5 years - $100M and not a penny under. Not a chance he gets that. No one has touched $20mil/per since the A-Rod, Manny deals during the dot-com era spending boom of 2000-01 -- and both teams came to quickly regret those expenditures even though the players played as well as could be expected. And even the teams who came close to the 20-mark with players (Thome w/Philly, Delgado w/Toronto, Giambi w/NYY, etc.) wanted/still want out of those deals while they were still going on. I know the scuttlebutt has it that there's going to be all kids of money thrown around this winter but Soriano isn't a complete enough player to command that kind of scratch. And, yes, Manny wasn't either, but Soriano on his best day isn't the hitter that Manny is.

Yancy Street Gang Nov 09 2006 03:38 PM

He picked a good year to go 40-40. It's translated to some pretty lucrative rumors, but I can't see him actually getting $20 million per year.

Elster88 Nov 09 2006 10:47 PM

Why waste time explaining why someone is not going to get a 5 year deal at 20 per when the phrase is "I'm hearing". 95% of the published hot-stove stuff is crap, there's no point in giving any credence to someone just posting a statement like that with no backup or sources.

Frayed Knot Nov 09 2006 11:17 PM

Elster88 wrote: Why waste time explaining why someone is not going to get a 5 year deal at 20 per when the phrase is "I'm hearing". I like to be thorough ] 95% of the published hot-stove stuff is crap, there's no point in giving any credence to someone just posting a statement like that with no backup or sources. It challenges the person w/the original post to either come up with some sources or realize that unbacked statements don't have a long shelf-life around here.

Elster88 Nov 09 2006 11:21 PM

Yeah, I'm just grumpy. I should go post a picture of something pretty.

patona314 Nov 09 2006 11:34 PM

Frayed Knot wrote: ="Elster88"]Why waste time explaining why someone is not going to get a 5 year deal at 20 per when the phrase is "I'm hearing". I like to be thorough ] 95% of the published hot-stove stuff is crap, there's no point in giving any credence to someone just posting a statement like that with no backup or sources. It challenges the person w/the original post to either come up with some sources or realize that unbacked statements don't have a long shelf-life around here. it's the boras trump card trying to beat the beltran contract. mr. beltran is the last player to get more than he deserved (for non-pitchers). boras is going to get close to that as possible (7yr 119M ) to this type of contract, though it is idiotic to sign, it still gets signed. so... boras tells whoever wants to sign soriano that for 5 yrs you must pay more... 5 yrs of misery is less than 7... which means $20M. i hope he doesn't get it

metirish Nov 09 2006 11:35 PM

But Boras is not his agent,least he wasn't last week. His agent is Diego Bentz.

Frayed Knot Nov 09 2006 11:52 PM

"it's the boras trump card trying to beat the beltran contract. mr. beltran is the last player to get more than he deserved (for non-pitchers). boras is going to get close to that as possible (7yr 119M ) to this type of contract," Boras don't enter into this cuz he's not the agent. And even if he was, Beltran was a 28 y/o CFer when he signed. Soriano is 31 and a corner player with MUCH worse OBP skills. Saying he wants a comparable deal doesn't mean someone has to agree to it. " though it is idiotic to sign, it still gets signed ... boras tells whoever wants to sign soriano that for 5 yrs you must pay more... 5 yrs of misery is less than 7... which means $20M." Sez who? -- you're going to have to come up with better logic than that. Agents make claims and throw out asking prices all the time that are never met. I think it was w/Millwood a couple years ago where Boras claimed he had "several standings offers" for something like 5 x $15mil ... before they wound up accepting a 1 year deal for around $10 This will be a negotiation, not a one-way dictation.

Edgy DC Nov 10 2006 12:44 AM

Yeah it was Millwood. I don't know where we get that Beltran was the "last player to get more than he deserved." They deserve exactly what their contracts say they deserve.

RealityChuck Nov 10 2006 08:53 AM

The nature of baseball contracts is similar to the nature of auctions. Auctions are used to raise money because they generally raise more money for the seller than any other type of sale (especially for rare items). Bidders tend to overbid on what they want, and there's usually someone out there willing to pay too much.

Elster88 Nov 10 2006 07:09 PM

Let's get ARod to play second.

metsmarathon Nov 10 2006 10:42 PM

mike piazza is available. i know, i know - i've long favored his use as a shortstop, but with reyes entrenched there, maybe he could shift over a spot on the infield.

patona314 Nov 11 2006 07:17 AM

Piazza as a 2nd baseman...hmm..... if he doesn't work out can we bring in Will Ferrell? It'll make a great movie.

MFS62 Nov 11 2006 10:37 AM

metsmarathon wrote: mike piazza is available. i know, i know - i've long favored his use as a shortstop, but with reyes entrenched there, maybe he could shift over a spot on the infield. Piazza at second would probably at least equal the defensive skills that Todd Walker has been accused of exhibiting as a regular second baseman throughout his career. In fact, if you watched Chuck Hiller play second as some of us did, Piazza might actually be an improvement. Brilliant idea! LOL! Later

Zvon Nov 11 2006 10:25 PM

The Mets have expressed interest in free agent Mark De Rosa. De Rosa turns 32 in Feb. He batted .296 with 13 homers for Texas last season, playing 26 games at 2nd base. (He played 60 games in RF). He has played 114 games at 2nd base during his career. He commited one error at 2nd in 2006 and eight errors at 2nd during his career. ____________________________________________________ The only thing I like about this is the guy plays 2nd base and RF.

Nymr83 Nov 11 2006 11:54 PM

errors don't = defense, but those numbers at least convince me he's not going to be pulling a Knoblauch.

metirish Nov 13 2006 08:29 AM

Mets sign Valentin to a one year deal worth Jose $3 million, according to the Daily News.

Frayed Knot Nov 13 2006 09:29 AM

Good move - at worst he becomes a highly paid bench player. Of course they could still use a good (preferably RH) super-sub to go with him.

sharpie Nov 13 2006 09:30 AM

Fine. I do hope we sign someone else who can play everyday but I got no problem with having Jose around for another year.

soupcan Nov 13 2006 09:40 AM

metirish wrote: Mets sign Valentin to a one year deal worth Jose $3 million, according to the Daily News. What is 'Jose $3 million'? Is that like Latin American Euros or something?

metirish Nov 13 2006 09:41 AM

Pipe down birthday boy...

Edgy DC Nov 13 2006 09:45 AM

With multiple sources reporting this, I guess I assume they're holding off on the announcement until after the "groundbreaking" ceremony.

Yancy Street Gang Nov 13 2006 09:52 AM

I'll believe it when it's officially announced. That "two-year deal" for Glavine was reported about two weeks ago.

Edgy DC Nov 13 2006 09:53 AM

Heck, it was announced four months ago also.

DocTee Nov 13 2006 10:01 AM

Rich Aurilia anyone? RH, plays three infield positions. Good citizen, native Brooklynite...

Farmer Ted Nov 13 2006 10:27 AM

$3 million to Valentin would prolly make him the strong incumbent at second. Doubt they'll shell out $11 million+ for two second sackers. Unless, of course, Valentin becomes next year's high-priced Woodward.

Johnny Dickshot Nov 13 2006 10:29 AM

They're still below what they paid for 2B last year when you consider Matsui's nut

Vic Sage Nov 13 2006 10:38 AM

Aurilia is a signficant upgrade over Woodward, and good insurance against Valentin's inability to repeat last year's performance, or at least a good platoon partner. His contract, together with Valentin's, would still be less than a mid-level type salary. Plus Rich is a NYer. Sign Aurilia NOW!

smg58 Nov 13 2006 10:38 AM

I'm not believing anything until it's official, but I have no problem bringing Valentin back as long as we also add somebody who can hit left-handed pitching.

Centerfield Nov 13 2006 10:52 AM

smg58 wrote: I have no problem bringing Valentin back as long as we also add somebody who can hit left-handed pitching. I'm cool as long as that somebody is Soriano.

iramets Nov 13 2006 11:32 AM

Johnny Dickshot wrote: They're still below what they paid for 2B last year when you consider Matsui's nut I'd rather not consider either of Matsui's nuts, but thanks very much for putting that image in my head.

smg58 Nov 13 2006 10:18 PM

The Valentin deal is now official: http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2659977

Yancy Street Gang Nov 13 2006 10:21 PM

]Valentin was scheduled to have a physical Tuesday in New York, agent David Elston said. The deal, which would be finalized if Valentin passes the physical, includes an option for 2008 that could become guaranteed. So it might be two more years of Jose.

Johnny Dickshot Nov 13 2006 10:32 PM

Yancy Street Gang wrote: ]Valentin was scheduled to have a physical Tuesday in New York, agent David Elston said. The deal, which would be finalized if Valentin passes the physical, includes an option for 2008 that could become guaranteed. So it might be two more years of Jose. Yabbut since it's incentive-based, he's only here for two years in the event he proves useful enough in year 1 to trigger a year 2.

Johnny Dickshot Dec 03 2006 09:16 PM

So what do you make of the attempt to land Lugo? One the one hand, he's capable and (relatively) young, and we have no internal options to take over if Valentin tanks. It also makes Valentin a LH pinch hitter and we need one of those. On the other, it makes the Valentin signing somewhat curious, and really squeezes Julio Franco (maybe he retires to coach third). So maybe the Mets are dangling a hometown-dsicount/get a ring offer. Boston and the Cubs are also reportedly horny for Lugo and are probably more desperate for a 2B than us. Thoughts?

metirish Dec 03 2006 09:22 PM

Well it would be a good move,Valentin to the bench,can he play first? he could become the super utility guy...Omar has long wanted Lugo,so the media says anyway.....

Frayed Knot Dec 03 2006 09:22 PM

Boston - and prolly the Cubs - want him as a SS which was supposedly his preference. Either he really likes the old hometown (born in the D.R. but rised in NYC, I was at a Met/Astro game when he played w/them and he had a big 'ol rooting section right near us) or the Mets are blowing other offers out of the water.

Johnny Dickshot Dec 03 2006 09:38 PM

Well Lugo could be the RH 2Bman and the backup SS. But, yer right, doesn't look like he or Valentin would get the minutes they'd like. assuming 14 position players: C LoDuca (Castro) 1B Delgado (Franco/EasleyValentin) 2B Lugo/Valentin (Valentin/Lugo, Easley) SS Reyes (Lugo/Easley) 3B Wright (Easley) LF Alou (Chavez/Johnson/Easley/Valentin) CF Beltran (Chavez/Johnson) RF Green (Chavez/Johnson/Easley/Valentin) Whom am I forgetting? Milledge could be in for Johnson

Elster88 Dec 03 2006 09:48 PM

Piazza as a backup catcher.

cleonjones11 Dec 04 2006 06:47 AM

Lugo would probably play everyday..he's too good..Valentin takes Woowards role and more....On another note I'm getting the feeling Zito is going elsewhere..

Edgy DC Dec 04 2006 09:41 AM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Dec 04 2006 10:29 AM

Lugo, Easley, and Valentin doesn't make sense. None of them entered this offseason expecting to sign a deal where they'd have to fight for a big-league roster spot.

MFS62 Dec 04 2006 09:57 AM

Edgy DC wrote: Lugo, Easley, and Valentin doesn't make sense. None of them entered this offeseason especting to sign a deal where they'd have to fight for a big-league roster spot. Which leads me to believe that if the Mets sign Lugo, another trade may be brewing. Easley (more likely because of his lower salary) or Valentin might go in a Joe Randa redux kind of move. Later

seawolf17 Dec 04 2006 09:59 AM

Let's not get too worked up over Damion Easley. If the Mets have to cut him, they cut him or deal him for an A-level prospect. He's basically Joe McEwing; nice, but expendable. I would love to see Piazza come back as a catcher, and then you keep Castro on the roster as a third catcher so you can use Piazza to PH. The Cubs signed two second basemen already (Soriano and DeRosa), so Lugo wouldn't fit at second there. But I'd take him at second for us over Valentin.

sharpie Dec 04 2006 10:03 AM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Dec 04 2006 10:25 AM

I thought you weren't allowed to trade free agents til June 1 or something. Since all of the guys we've discussed signed as free agents, wouldn't we have to keep them all til then?

seawolf17 Dec 04 2006 10:08 AM

I think Sharpie's right, but if they decide to DFA him, then he's dealable, right?

Johnny Dickshot Dec 04 2006 10:25 AM

Edgy DC wrote: Lugo, Easley, and Valentin doesn't make sense. None of them entered this offseason expecting to sign a deal where they'd have to fight for a big-league roster spot. Well in my scenario they all have a job, just not a job that'd keep them as busy as they'd like. Maybe that is the plan, though.

Edgy DC Dec 04 2006 10:28 AM

If I've learned anything these last twelve years, it's that Julio Franco will not go quietly into that dark night. Dude's got guaranteed money coming to him, and he's expecting to play. I guess Lugo could also take a spot from a relief pitcher.

Johnny Dickshot Dec 04 2006 10:32 AM

It's 11 pitchers or else.

Edgy DC Dec 04 2006 11:17 AM

Lugo has also been offered arbitration.

Vic Sage Dec 04 2006 12:02 PM

as i illustrated in another thread: name (age - B) (`06 OPS) / (career OPS) / (career OPS+) +Durham (35 - S) (.898) / (.797) / 106 +Aurilia (35 - R) (.867) / (.775) / 104 * Loretta (35 - R) (.706) / (.765) / 101 **Walker(33 - L) (.785) / (.786) / 98 +Valentin (37-S) (.820) / (.772) / 96 * Belliard (31 - R) (.725) / (.751) / 94 +Kennedy (30 - L) (.718) / (.730) / 92 **Lugo (30 - R) (.762) / (.742) / 92 +DeRosa (31 - R) (.812) / (.735) / 90 + signed * unsigned FA, not offered arbitration ** offered arbitration I don't see why Lugo (who can get a full-time gig as a SS) is worth as much to the Mets as a 2bman (especially a part-time 2b/utility), when he's not appreciably better than other 2bmen still on the market (for whom no draft choice need be surrendered, and who'd likely be cheaper), like Belliard and Loretta. Frankly, i don't see him as even much of an upgrade over Valentin who, even if he falls back to career averages, is likely to outhit him.

Johnny Dickshot Dec 04 2006 12:13 PM

I'm not arguing that Lugo is anyone's idea of a huge upgrade, but it's difficult to believe Valentin is really Plan A because: 1) There's little on the roster or in the minors constituting Plan B. 2) Valentin was more than adequate over the year, but rotten enough in April and in September to raise questions as to "the real Valentin," especially when you consider his age. 3) I think all along the Mets would have preferred Valentin as a LH power threat off the bench (after all they had burned through Boone, Hernandez AND Matsui before getting to him) and if he's Plan A at 2B, then we still need a LH PH. So many reasons to have made a play for Durham. Is he that bad with the old leather?

Edgy DC Dec 04 2006 12:19 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Dec 04 2006 12:42 PM

Valentin, for what it's worth, had always been a very good --- sometimes excellent --- shortstop, before injuries set him back for a year and a half before joining the Mets. High power/low average types are generally not thought of as good defenders, but he always has been one, and was mostly more than good for the Mets at second. Lugo's a useful plan B, probably as good or better an option than Easley. Hernandez and Gotay remain in reserve, though, with Gotay out of options. I just don't know where these plan Bs are going to fit. I guess, if the Mets didn't bother promoting Gotay in September (and making him the 800th Met), he's not breaking camp with them under any circumstances, and they'd do well to try to move him now.

Johnny Dickshot Dec 04 2006 12:23 PM

Valentin was terrific with the glove; that's his best argument for remaining at 2B. But Lugo wouldn't sign to be Plan B, and it still leaves the question as to how we're going onto the year without a LH pinch-hitter.

Edgy DC Dec 04 2006 12:34 PM

I'd rather have Valentin pinch-hitting four times a game than Lugo begging to be pinch-hit for four times a game. Valentin also sucked as a pinch-hitter early in the year. Lack of a lefthanded pinch-hitter sucks too, but we went through most of last year without one. I'm using my mental powers to ease Shawn Greeen into that role.

Johnny Dickshot Dec 04 2006 01:12 PM

Green to PH would ease the crowding in the OF and give Chavez/Johnson/Milledge and even Valentin more action, and solves the PH issue. I like it. But it still doesn't provide a solution if Valentin falters. I don;t want to see this become like 2005 when we needed a 2Bman midseason due to injury/ineffectiveness but couldn't bring ourselves to buy at trade-deadline prices. I'm sure in 07 we buy buy buy but we'll pay pay pay.

Vic Sage Dec 04 2006 02:42 PM

i agree that a better option than Valentin at 2b would be preferable, putting Jose on the bench as an all-purpose Utility/LHed PHer. But my point was that Lugo is more valuable as a SS for another team (since his hitting is more respectable as a SS than a 2bman) and if we're going to have to bid against those teams (not to mention give up a draft pick) to sign him, I'd rather sign Ronny Belliard, who is equally mediocre but is likely to cost 1/2 as much as Lugo at SS, and he won't cost us a pick. Heck, i'd prefer Loretta for 1 year (for less $ and no pick) to a multi-year deal for Lugo.

Johnny Dickshot Dec 04 2006 02:57 PM

We could like, trade for Jose Vidro. Don't think Omar ain't got wood for that guy.

metirish Dec 04 2006 02:57 PM

Word is the Cubs think he can play CF...I wouldn't want Omar getting into a bidding war with the Cubs or Boston.....

Vic Sage Dec 04 2006 03:16 PM

Depending on what Nationals wanted for him, I'd take Vidro. He's a high injury risk, but a good player (much better than Lugo). And if he broke down, we'd still have Valentin to fill in.

Edgy DC Dec 04 2006 03:20 PM

I think he's pretty broken down as it is.

sharpie Dec 04 2006 03:28 PM

Can't see how the Cubs think Vidro could play center field. He never covered a lot of ground and after injuries he's pretty immobile. He has great instincts and second and he can still hit but I can't see him coming to the Mets unless they want to field an all-second base team.

metirish Dec 04 2006 03:28 PM

No they think Lugo can......

Frayed Knot Dec 04 2006 03:34 PM

Problem w/Vidro is that he still has 2 more years ('07 & '08) to run on his deal (w/partial no-trade btw) at $8mil/per. So you're looking at Lugo costing a FA contract $?/yr plus a 2nd/3rd round draft pick (maybe #60-90) vs Current, as opposed to future, players to get Vidro (maybe not much) plus, in effect, a 2-year FA-like contract at more than he's worth right now with all the injuries and age. Not that those are the only two choices ... I'm just sayin'

Vic Sage Dec 04 2006 04:16 PM

IF we can trade Green, Gotay and Bannister for Vidro + A-ball prospect (for example): - the platoon of Johnson and Chavez in RF is unlikely to be less productive than Green, at a fraction of the cost; - Vidro is backed up by Valentin, with Vidro's salary offset by trade of Green. whereas, if we sign Lugo: - he likely gets Juan Pierre type money (5yrs/$40-45m), hindering our effort to sign a frontline SPer, - he is not a sure thing to be signifcantly more productive than Valentin; - we still have to carry Green's declining bat/glove (and no place for Johnson or Milledge to get semi-regular ABs); and - we give up a draft choice now of course these scenarios have tons of assumptions, but depending on who we trade, i don't necessarily think Lugo is a better deal than Vidro. I just don't think Lugo is worth what he's likely to get in the current market, and we can fix 2b in other ways.

Frayed Knot Dec 04 2006 04:49 PM

I wouldn't trade those players for Vidro OR pay that kind of money for Lugo.

Vic Sage Dec 04 2006 05:31 PM

that's fine. then we've got Valentin at 2b, and we could probably sign Belliard cheap.

Johnny Dickshot Dec 04 2006 05:38 PM

You guys sure Vidro's done? Didn't throw up the power figures he did in Montreal but I'd attribute some of it to the bigger park. Always reaches base pretty well, gets his doubles, hits lefties well and is few years younger than Valentin. He also wouldn't hafta be a No. 3 hitter. I think he D is OK, or it used to be. I kinda like Ralph's scenario but Green's got that tricky no-trade.

Edgy DC Dec 04 2006 07:37 PM

What I saw this season suggested his wheels weren't there any longer. And even accounting for that park, he's been hitting... like a secondbaseman. Laud to him for staying more or less on the field this season (126 games), but --- though he's only 32 --- he appears to have drunk from the wrong stream sometime after the 2002 season. Season PA OPS+ 1997 185 73 1998 245 62 1999 531 102 2000 663 129 2001 531 113 2002 681 126 2003 592 111 2004 467 116 2005 347 105 2006 511 93

cleonjones11 Dec 04 2006 08:25 PM

Vidro's body is beyond the point of no return...kinda like my own.

Frayed Knot Dec 04 2006 11:08 PM

Vidro's not necc DONE done, just no longer a $8mil/yr - more than Matsui money - more than double Valentin money - kinda guy. For only 7 HRs w/a decent tho hardly great OPB (.350) and an aging & rapidly slowing body he'd better either come with a significant discount or at a small price in bodies in order to pick up the whole freight. Otherwise ... pass.

Edgy DC Dec 04 2006 11:27 PM

Unless (scenario 3) the Exponentials took on a bloated contract of their own, maybe Shawn Green's. Just saying. And Green presumably has trade veto rights.

Johnny Dickshot Dec 05 2006 05:15 PM

Mets, Lugo talking 4yrs/36 mills, sez FAN. Numbers almost too specific to be "talking about," don't ya think?

metirish Dec 05 2006 08:59 PM

WOW...more years than we thought and more money?...

smg58 Dec 05 2006 09:05 PM

No way he's worth that.

metirish Dec 05 2006 09:09 PM

Lugo had a terrible time after being traded to the LA..and this is his reward?..

Edgy DC Dec 05 2006 09:35 PM

So explain the assault thingie. His wife retracted her story, so why did it go all the way to trial with her testifying on his behalf before a jury aquitted him. Shouldn't the charges just have been dropped and the state saved the trouble?

Nymr83 Dec 05 2006 09:37 PM

not if the state thought that the victim of a crime was being pressured into shutting up or shutting up because of the unfortunate "logic" that plagues many victims of domestic violence "he loves me, he'll stop this time" but of course i don't know what happened here, i'm just saying why in general these cases might proceed without her cooperation.

Edgy DC Dec 05 2006 09:45 PM

I'm just saying too. I realize the market is loco and everything, but Mabely Lugo may be the only one that can get me behind this deal.

Frayed Knot Dec 05 2006 10:21 PM

I see no reason for Lugo to be considered so unique or desirable to warrant that kind of contract. The reports seemed to be a bit hazy over whether or not those numbers were being discussed or actually offered. Personally, I'd consider something about half that long at half that rate (like 2x$5). And, as usual, the reports are loaded with all kinds of asides about Minaya's ongoing man-love for Lugo. I don't know if there's any other GM who so consistently gets tagged with this rep that there are players that he's powerless to resist as if these shiny baubles dangled in front of him send him into some sort of trance. Not quite sure what he did to earn this rep - although maybe it noteworthy that almost all these supposed obsessions are Latin: Lugo, Manny, Vazquez, etc.

Vic Sage Dec 05 2006 11:33 PM

this is what i predicted, and what i was afraid of. I said Lugo would get a Pierre-type deal (5yr/$40-45m) because he's more valuable to other teams as a SS, and we'd be stuck overpaying for him as a 2bman who isn't remarkablly better than (a) what we already have, or (b) cheaper options still available. LF, if you want a guy for 2-3 years at under $5m/yr, it ain't gonna be Lugo.

Vic Sage Dec 05 2006 11:47 PM

Boston about to sign Lugo, pending physical, for 4yr/$36m deal http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2687827 phew! that was a close one. good job dodging that one, Omar.

metsmarathon Dec 05 2006 11:49 PM

Frayed Knot wrote: maybe it noteworthy that almost all these supposed obsessions are Latin: Lugo, Manny, Vazquez, etc. and, despite opportunities so far, none have become mets. yet the stories persist...?

Frayed Knot Dec 05 2006 11:53 PM

]LF, if you want a guy for 2-3 years at under $5m/yr, it ain't gonna be Lugo. Agreed. I didn't particularly want him unless I could get him at a reduced rate which wasn't going to happen in this market. My only point from earlier is that Vidro's kind of in the same bucket right now; priced higher than the upgrade he'd be likely to provide.

cleonjones11 Dec 05 2006 11:53 PM

Edgy DC wrote: So explain the assault thingie. His wife retracted her story, so why did it go all the way to trial with her testifying on his behalf before a jury aquitted him. Shouldn't the charges just have been dropped and the state saved the trouble? Ask Ramon Castro..he should know..

patona314 Dec 05 2006 11:56 PM

that's not nice, ramon is a good boy. he throws out runners.......

Edgy DC Dec 05 2006 11:57 PM

My fault.

Elster88 Dec 06 2006 12:26 AM

Vic Sage wrote: Boston about to sign Lugo, pending physical, for 4yr/$36m deal http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2687827 phew! that was a close one. good job dodging that one, Omar. Wow. That's a whole lot of money for a whole lot of nothing.

Elster88 Dec 06 2006 12:27 AM

cleonjones11 wrote: Lugo would probably play everyday..he's too good.... Lugo is not good.

Rotblatt Dec 06 2006 07:32 AM

]phew! that was a close one. good job dodging that one, Omar. My sentiments exactly, Vic. $9M a year for Lugo is ridiculous, and for 4 fucking years? Egads. The market has most definitely shifted, and at this point, I'd prefer we trade up rather than pay out. Alou, by the way, remains an amazing fucking deal. I wonder if his agent is kicking himself right now . . .

Johnny Dickshot Dec 06 2006 08:09 AM

I agree the contract is rich/long but I don't believe Lugo is awful as being discussed here. It's possible the mets interest chased theo into those numbers. But i'm also not too comfy going into the year the way we are at 2B.

smg58 Dec 06 2006 08:11 AM

What's the going rate on Ty Wigginton? He'd be a perfect platoon fit.

Edgy DC Dec 06 2006 09:10 AM

Wow, it's like the fouth straight time Minaya showed restraint while we were under the impression he was over-extending himself.

Edgy DC Dec 06 2006 09:16 AM

Wigs definitely evindences an improvement against lefties, not a mind-blowing one, but a clear one. His downsides include (1) he's a below average thirdbaseman and a worse secondbaseman, and (2) he's likely enough to regress to be shy about rewarding him too much for last year. He's a legit option, but he might be more interested in signing with a club that has a full-time spot for him, if such a club is out there.

sharpie Dec 06 2006 09:50 AM

Wigginton wouldn't get much of any playing time at third, we have Franco backing up at first and I really don't want to see him at second. Pass.

Edgy DC Dec 06 2006 10:00 AM

Well, I only bring up his range at third to suggest that second may be a position that's sailing away from him, but he could probably fake it as a part-timer for a year or two.

sharpie Dec 06 2006 10:06 AM

Ty is a cellar magnet. He played the 02 and 03 seasons with the last place Mets. He started the 04 season on the destined-for-4th-place Mets only to be traded to the last place Pirates. The Pirates and Ty were in last in 05 and then he spent last year with the last place Devil Rays. I think he would make a good fit with the Nationals or Royals for next year.

seawolf17 Dec 06 2006 10:15 AM

sharpie wrote: Ty is a cellar magnet. He played the 02 and 03 seasons with the last place Mets. He started the 04 season on the destined-for-4th-place Mets only to be traded to the last place Pirates. The Pirates and Ty were in last in 05 and then he spent last year with the last place Devil Rays. I think he would make a good fit with the Nationals or Royals for next year. Or the Yankees. I'd be fine with that.

Frayed Knot Dec 06 2006 10:23 AM

Yanx have talked about trying to get him actually. They need a 1st baseman (pref a RH hitter) to both backup Giambi and keep him off 1st base as much as possible. He'd be a good fit there ... which is why I'm hoping it doesn't happen of course.

Centerfield Dec 06 2006 10:39 AM

So who's left? Belliard?

Centerfield Dec 06 2006 11:26 AM

Answered my own questin...apparently the deal reported about Mark Loretta is being denied. I think I'd prefer Loretta to any of the other names I've been hearing.

Yancy Street Gang Dec 06 2006 11:31 AM

Were the Mets really going for Lugo? It would at least be a sign that they're not completely satisfied with going into April with Valentin as the starting second baseman. I know that I'm not, and I do hope that they're continuing to weigh other options.

metirish Dec 06 2006 11:32 AM

Yancy Street Gang wrote: Were the Mets really going for Lugo? It would at least be a sign that they're not completely satisfied with going into April with Valentin as the starting second baseman. I know that I'm not, and I do hope that they're continuing to weigh other options. Yes,apparently they offered the same money and years,one of the reasons Lugo chose Boston was because he'd be at SS...

TransMonk Dec 06 2006 12:12 PM

I like Loretta.

DocTee Dec 06 2006 12:14 PM

I'd prefer Loretta over Valentin as a starter--the same does not go for Belliard. Still wish we could've locked up Rich Aurilia.

sharpie Dec 06 2006 12:32 PM

I thought Loretta was signing with Cincy.

seawolf17 Dec 06 2006 12:37 PM

Get back, Loretta.

metirish Dec 06 2006 12:42 PM

sharpie wrote: I thought Loretta was signing with Cincy. From Reds.com ] Rumors surfaced that Cincinnati offered free-agent second baseman Mark Loretta a two-year deal worth $6 million. The club emphatically denied the report. "We have not made an offer to Mark Loretta, I can tell you that," Reds manager Jerry Narron said without hesitation. Both Narron and general manager Wayne Krivsky confirmed there have been talks with Loretta's agent, Bob Garber. "I've talked to his agent, but I've talked to a lot agents," Krivsky said.

OlerudOwned Dec 06 2006 04:26 PM

At this point I think I'd rather have Belliard over Loretta. Last season was a down year for Ronnie, by his own standards, but his OBP was only .022 less than Loretta's constantly heralded output. Belliard has much better power, and is a better defensive player. Both are right-handed hitters who improve against lefty pitching (except for Belliard's abysmal performance last year, which is highly out of character for him). No doubt, Belliard had a bad season in '06, and was out-performed by Loretta. But he seems to have the advantage in all around talent and could prove last season to be a fluke. A lot also depends on other variables. Length of the contract. Is Loretta willing to split time? Do we want a guy with extra base pop, or someone to hit in the 8 spot and get on base? Either way, it's better than Lugo.

sharpie Dec 06 2006 04:35 PM

I sure wasn't impressed with Belliard's defense in the LCS. Also don't like the way he sticks his tongue out.

TransMonk Dec 06 2006 04:41 PM

sharpie wrote: Also don't like the way he sticks his tongue out. Ditto. I dislike that more than his defense.

OlerudOwned Dec 06 2006 04:49 PM

Pelfrey and Wright are both tounge guys.

sharpie Dec 06 2006 04:54 PM

Wright and Pelfrey are not in the same league tongue-wise as Belliard.

Rockin' Doc Dec 06 2006 10:11 PM

Belliard's more in a league with Gene Simmons than David Wright or Mike Pelfrey.

Yancy Street Gang Dec 07 2006 07:46 AM

From The Daily News: ="Adam Rubin"]JOSE'S OK: After coming up short in his pursuit of Julio Lugo at second base, Minaya indicated he's satisfied with Jose Valentin as his starter and won't continue to pursue other players to man the position.

iramets Dec 07 2006 08:07 AM

="Yancy Street Gang"]From The Daily News: ="Adam Rubin"]JOSE'S OK: After coming up short in his pursuit of Julio Lugo at second base, Minaya indicated he's satisfied with Jose Valentin as his starter and won't continue to pursue other players to man the position. After shooting off his left leg with a shotgun yesterday, Minaya indicated that he's satisfied with his right leg and that he's always wanted to get around on crutches for the rest of his natural life anyway.

Rotblatt Dec 07 2006 09:31 AM

]After shooting off his left leg with a shotgun yesterday, Minaya indicated that he's satisfied with his right leg and that he's always wanted to get around on crutches for the rest of his natural life anyway. Good one! Maybe if we end up trading for Harden, we can also squeeze out a AAAA 2B with a little upside from Oakland. I'm okay with Valentin as our second baseman, but in case he tanks, I'd really really like a moderately competent backup. And I'm sorry, Andy Handy, you are not he.

Edgy DC Dec 07 2006 09:39 AM

Well, we also currently have Damian Easley, Ruben Gotay, Chris Basak, and Chase Lambin. Nothing ideal there, and yeah, we should and will bring in more young and old options in spring training (including Edgardo Alfonzo, maybe), but we are talking about backing up our number eight hitter. I'm frankly more worried about backup plans for Green and Alou than the depth behind Valentin.

Rotblatt Dec 07 2006 09:42 AM

Edgy DC wrote: I'm frankly more worried about backup plans for Green and Alou than the depth behind Valentin. Good point. I think Alou will be solid when healthy, but how often will that be? And Green worries me. He didn't look too good for us last year.

Vic Sage Dec 07 2006 10:00 AM

] AAAA 2B with a little upside from Oakland. well, I seem to recall they have some fella named Scutaro who i wouldn't mind having back.

Vic Sage Dec 07 2006 10:02 AM

]Green worries me. He didn't look too good for us last year. Green was one of our better hitters in the post-season, but i'm not seeing much beyond a .280/15hr/65rbi lead-footed, iron-gloved player in a steady decline.

Vic Sage Dec 07 2006 10:03 AM

Loretta, at 35, doesn't offer us anything more than Valentin. Lets save our chips for a significant upgrade to the rotation, rather than frittering away talent/$$ on marginal upgrades/backups to the #8 hitter.

Nymr83 Dec 07 2006 11:57 AM

Edgy DC wrote: Well, we also currently have Damian Easley, Ruben Gotay, Chris Basak, and Chase Lambin. Nothing ideal there, and yeah, we should and will bring in more young and old options in spring training (including Edgardo Alfonzo, maybe), but we are talking about backing up our number eight hitter. I'm frankly more worried about backup plans for Green and Alou than the depth behind Valentin. Milledge, Chavez, and Johnson are all here.

Edgy DC Dec 07 2006 12:01 PM

I guess I can go on. For one. more. day.

Centerfield Dec 07 2006 02:50 PM

Vic Sage wrote: Loretta, at 35, doesn't offer us anything more than Valentin. Lets save our chips for a significant upgrade to the rotation, rather than frittering away talent/$$ on marginal upgrades/backups to the #8 hitter. That is assuming Valentin plays as well as he did last year and not the way he played the year before. Loretta is more of a sure-thing, and comes relatively cheap.

Johnny Dickshot Dec 07 2006 03:00 PM

Yeah, as said often in this thread, it's not that Valentin is awful, it's that there's the worry that if he is awful, we pay through the nose to upgrade in-season.

Edgy DC Dec 07 2006 03:05 PM Edited 2 time(s), most recently on Dec 13 2006 11:04 PM

I just think this team can handle Valentin falling down a lot easier than it can handle a (likely) injury by Alou or a continued Operation Sunset by Shawn Green.

Yancy Street Gang Dec 07 2006 03:20 PM

I don't know about that. I'm more comfortable with Endy Chavez getting a lot of fill-in at bats than I am with Anderson Hernandez doing so. They do have a better backup outfielder than infielder. But on the other hand, if Valentin is replaced, the fill-in is hitting in the 8 slot, which has a lower impact than replacing a guy who's part of the heart of the lineup.

Edgy DC Dec 07 2006 03:43 PM

Right. Also know that Endy Chavez's 2006 performance was much further removed from his career track than Jose Valentin's.

Yancy Street Gang Dec 07 2006 03:51 PM

Endy's younger though. He may have finally learned how to play. At Valentin's age, though, decline is more likely than improvement.

Vic Sage Dec 07 2006 04:00 PM

Centerfield wrote: ="Vic Sage"]Loretta, at 35, doesn't offer us anything more than Valentin. Lets save our chips for a significant upgrade to the rotation, rather than frittering away talent/$$ on marginal upgrades/backups to the #8 hitter. That is assuming Valentin plays as well as he did last year and not the way he played the year before. Loretta is more of a sure-thing, and comes relatively cheap. No, it assumes Valentin, even if he regresses to career averages, is still ok as a #8 hitter. If he falls apart, gotay, etal, get to hit 8th. And Loretta, at his age and rate of decline, is no more a sure-thing than Valentin at this point in his career. He also has signficantly less range, for those who care about such things. Again, i might take Loretta over Valentin this year, but its not a meaningful difference. Its time to focus on a pitcher.

Nymr83 Dec 07 2006 04:26 PM

agreed, pitching needs to be the focus right now, i like loretta but valentin/loretta in no way makes or breaks the Mets 2007.

Yancy Street Gang Dec 12 2006 07:04 PM

Marcus Giles is a free agent: ] Braves decide against offering contracts to Giles, Reitsma By PAUL NEWBERRY, AP Sports Writer December 12, 2006 ATLANTA (AP) -- The Atlanta Braves cut ties to Marcus Giles on Tuesday, deciding they could no longer afford the second baseman under their ever-tightening budget. The Braves pushed hard to trade Giles during the winter meetings, but couldn't work out a deal for someone to take their leadoff hitter from this past season. So they declined to tender him a contract for 2007. General manager John Schuerholz said he couldn't risk going to arbitration with Giles, who made $3.85 million in 2006 and likely would have commanded over $5 million for next season. "It's not an easy decision when you're talking about somebody's who's been a key guy for our team over the years and grew up in our organization," Schuerholz said. "But it's a fact of the matter with the economics of this business. As salaries continue to rise, we've got to use our assets the best way we can to put our most balanced team together." The 28-year-old Giles made the All-Star game in 2003, his first full season as a starter. He wound up hitting a career-best .316 with 21 homers and 69 RBIs -- all career highs. But Giles was plagued by injuries and clearly uncomfortable when the Braves moved him into the leadoff spot for 2006, seeking a replacement for Rafael Furcal. The second baseman slumped to .262 with 11 homers, 60 RBIs and 10 stolen bases, his disappointing season coinciding with the end of Atlanta's record streak of 14 straight division titles. "You can't just look at Marcus in a vacuum. He's been a very productive player for us," Schuerholz said. "When salaries continue to rise and productivity tapers off some, an organization gets to a point where it has to measure what the return on the investment is." In another move, the Braves also decided not to offer a contract to former closer Chris Reitsma, who missed much of last season after elbow surgery. The right-hander was 1-2 with an 8.68 ERA and eight saves before he went out. While Schuerholz doesn't expect any further talks with Giles, the Braves might try to bring back Reitsma to bolster the depth of their bullpen -- one of the team's top priorities during this offseason. Reitsma made $2.75 million in 2006 and is hardly in line for a major increase. "He's at a different salary level that Marcus," Schuerholz said. Giles' agent, Joe Bick, said the Braves' decision not to tender a contract to the second baseman was no surprise, given their well-publicized efforts to trade him. "I think Marcus had probably come to grips some time ago that he had played his last game with the Braves," Bick said. "He has no regrets. He loved the time he spent in Atlanta. He played hard for them every day. He was a good, quality player for them." Giles can negotiate with any team, but it's clear that San Diego would be his first choice. His older brother, outfielder Brian Giles, already plays for their hometown Padres. "We're going to look into that possibility, among others," Bick said. "I don't think the fact that a trade hasn't worked out is any reflection on his abilities as a player." Barring another move, the Braves will go into spring training with a three-way battle for second base that includes rookie Martin Prado, converted outfielder Kelly Johnson and utility player Manny Aybar. "Whoever it is, we feel like we're going to be solid at second base," Schuerholz said. "As tough as this decision was about Marcus, the overriding decision is what gives us a chance to put our best team on the field." Prado batted .262 with one homer and nine RBIs in limited duty for the Braves. Johnson missed most of the year with an elbow injury after batting .241 with nine homers and 40 RBIs the previous season, sharing left field with Ryan Langerhans. The Braves acquired Aybar in a midseason trade with the Los Angeles Dodgers. The infielder batted .280 with four homers and 30 RBIs, but hasn't proven that he is accomplished enough defensively to play regularly at second base. No matter who wins the job, the Braves aren't likely to get as much offensive production as they did from Giles. Giving up a former All-Star who's still in his 20s without getting anything in return shows just how much pressure the Braves are under to slash payroll, even coming off a sub.-500 season in which they finished 18 games behind the NL East champion New York Mets. "While we have cut ties to a player of Marcus' caliber, that doesn't mean we're throwing in the towel on putting together a championship-caliber team," Schuerholz insisted. "It's just going to look different."

Nymr83 Dec 12 2006 08:01 PM

I wouldn't mind signing Giles for something like 2 years, $10 million if thats doable... there'd be no promise of a starting job, though if he earned it and got X ABs over the 2 years (or Y in the second year alone) I'd include an automatically vesting 3rd year at $10 million (a nice amount i know but there needs to be an incentive to sign the deal for him)

smg58 Dec 12 2006 09:06 PM

So let me get this straight... he's 28, is a second baseman with a career .800 OPS, and $5M in this market is too much? Huh? They must think Giles is damaged goods; otherwise that makes no sense at all. He had a .643 OPS against lefties last year but an .835 OPS against them from 04-06. He's a great pickup if he's healthy, but something tells me he doesn't get non-tendered if he's healthy.

Edgy DC Dec 12 2006 09:08 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Dec 12 2006 10:02 PM

Giles may be a luxury, but he can do some serious damage to lefties, though his splits were pretty even, checking last year.

Rockin' Doc Dec 12 2006 09:26 PM

I think Giles is worth a look. If the Mets can determine that he is healthy, I think he would be a solid addition to the team. In the current salary climate, $4-5 mil./yr. for Giles seems like a steal for him. Too bad he can't pitch.

Yancy Street Gang Dec 13 2006 09:47 AM

Giles reportedly leaning towards San Diego. The Mets should try to intervene. He's probably their last best shot at getting somebody who'll be better than Valentin. He's only 28. They've got to at least talk to the guy.

Edgy DC Dec 13 2006 09:51 AM

Is that perhaps just speculation because his brother is there? And has his brother told him about Petco knocking 50 points off of his slugging percentage?

Yancy Street Gang Dec 13 2006 09:56 AM

It probably is speculation. I don't think he's had time to comment, much less explore his options yet. I also think he's from Southern California, which would be another reason for the speculation, but I could be wrong. Are the Padres even looking for a second baseman?

smg58 Dec 13 2006 01:13 PM

Yes, they traded Josh Barfield to the Indians a few weeks ago. I'm still perplexed by Giles being non-tendered. Is there a reason to think that Giles' injuries this past season are serious enough to compromise him this year? Does anybody know/remember the details?

Vic Sage Dec 13 2006 02:00 PM

apparently, he's from the SD area, and being able to go home, and to play with his brother, are going to be hard preferences to overcome. but i think the Mets should certainly take a shot. He's got the kind of RHed pop that would give the lineup more balance. i think he was cut loose because of his dislike of batting leadoff, which may have lead to unpleasantness with management, and their exhaustion with his chronic injuries. Still, he's 28, and if he gets hurt, its not like we'd be building the lineup around him. We'd still have Valentin. He's definitely worth a serious look.

cleonjones11 Dec 13 2006 03:30 PM

Yes to Marcus Giles. I believe he earned a rep as a bit of a blockhead kinda like myself...and fell into Mrs. Cox' doghouse..

DocTee Dec 13 2006 09:08 PM

Jose Vidro off the board as Washington sends him to Seattle for Chris Snelling and a prospect. Nats to play Felipe Lopez at second (!) keeping Christian Guzman's lethal bat in the lineup.

Edgy DC Dec 13 2006 11:07 PM

I'd be surprised if Guzman opened 2007 at shortstop. Most Nats fans would rather see Felipe Lopez there. They'd rather see Nancy Lopez there.

Elster88 Dec 14 2006 01:42 AM

I'd really like to have Giles on the team. But he's going to San Diego to play with his brother and bang hot Cali girls.

duan Dec 14 2006 06:54 AM

Elster88 wrote: I'd really like to have Giles on the team. But he's going to San Diego to play with his brother and bang hot Cali girls. whatever about playing with Brian; but my memories of NYC had NO shortage of lovely looking ladies.

MFS62 Dec 14 2006 07:16 AM

duan wrote: whatever about playing with Brian; but my memories of NYC had NO shortage of lovely looking ladies. Well East coast girls are hip I really dig those styles they wear And the Southern girls with the way they talk They knock me out when I'm down there The Mid-West farmer's daughters really make you feel alright And the Northern girls with the way they kiss They keep their boyfriends warm at night I wish they all could be California I wish they all could be California I wish they all could be California girls The West coast has the sunshine And the girls all get so tanned I dig a french bikini on Hawaii island Dolls by a palm tree in the sand I been all around this great big world And I seen all kinds of girls Yeah, but I couldn't wait to get back in the states Back to the cutest girls in the world I wish they all could be California I wish they all could be California I wish they all could be California girls I wish they all could be California (Girls, girls, girls yeah I dig the) I wish they all could be California (Girls, girls, girls yeah I dig the) I wish they all could be California (Girls, girls, girls yeah I dig the) I wish they all could be California (Girls, girls, girls yeah I dig the) Later

Yancy Street Gang Dec 14 2006 09:02 AM

Newsday said that the Mets are interested in Giles, but The Daily News quoted Omar as saying that second base is settled, and that it will be Jose Valentin. I prefer to believe Newsday on this one. I want a better option than Valentin for 2007. I don't think they'll catch lightning in the same bottle twice.

attgig Dec 14 2006 12:00 PM

http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20061214/news_1s14padnotes.html Apparently, SD have offered Giles a contract 3-4 mil.

Vic Sage Dec 14 2006 12:31 PM

that kind of offer leaves a 2yr/$10m as an attractive alternative for the Mets to pursue.

smg58 Dec 14 2006 02:03 PM

You could offer him $3M for this year, but add an option for several more years at a higher price or a good buyout. That would beat the Padres offer, while putting the Mets in a position to be set at second for a while if he's back to 100% without risking much if he's not.