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And it appears to be a long, long time ...

Frayed Knot Nov 20 2006 10:20 AM

The Soriano deal got me thinking about long-term deals, specifically about how many have ended up with the player finishing out the contract with the same team that signed him to it. I've always said that it's the length of these deals that scares he more than the dollar figures. Looking in at some long deals (5 or more years) either still in progress or recently ended: * ARod: 10yrs @ ~$25/per Nope. Dealt away after year 3 with the team paying a good chunk of the remainder * Thome: 6yrs? @ ~$17 Nope, and again the team had to pay to make him disappear * Hampton: 7yrs @ ~$17 Not even close. Sent away after year 2 at great expense to the team * Mo Vaughn: 6yrs @ ~$19? Sent away (also with a suitcase of cash) after 2 years of playing and one of sitting. He then missed almost 2 complete seasons of the remaining 3 Piazza: 7yrs @ ~$14 Yes, with reduced, though still adequate, results towards the end * Pedro (w/Boston): 5yrs @ ~$13 Yes, with 4 terrific years and one partial one * Mussina: 6yrs @ ~$17 Yes, and finished well enough where the team still wants him - though at a somewhat reduced rate * Manny: 8yrs @ $20 (plus 2 option years) Is still there 6 years into it - though the thought of dumping him has certainly crossed mgmt's mind. May or may not make it thru the final two years and the options certainly won't be picked up * Helton: 10 or 11yrs @ ~$18? Still there at around the mid-point of the deal - though I wouldn't bet on him finishing it in the same place * Jeter: 10yrs @ ~$19 Still there and playing well half-way through the deal. Will almost surely finish it out there whether any diminishing returns kick in or not. Not a promising track record, eh Lou? Others?

metirish Nov 20 2006 10:49 AM

Can't remeber if they were 5+ year deals but Denny Neagle and Chan Ho Park didn't finish out big contracts.

seawolf17 Nov 20 2006 10:58 AM

Didn't Dan Quisenberry sign some sort of lifetime deal with the Royals back in the early 80s? I remember that being a big deal. Not big dollars, iirc, but I remember a "lifetime" tag. I know he finished his career in St. Louis, though. So perhaps I've lost my mind. And maybe it has nothing to do with your original point. Sorry. I'll stop typing now.

Edgy DC Nov 20 2006 11:04 AM

Bobby Bonilla was signed by the Mets for five years and $29 million and was traded after four.

attgig Nov 20 2006 12:29 PM

Burnett 5 years 55 Park 5 years 65 Millwood 5 years 60 Tejada 6 years 65 Vlad 5 years 70 Beltre 5 years 64 Giambi 7 years 120 Maggs 5 years 75 Griff 9 years 116 there WAS JD Drew's contract... and I thought hampton was 8 years, not 7. and of course, you have beltran... there's a bunch more who have longer contracts too.... too much work to figure out if it's really worth it or not.

attgig Nov 20 2006 12:32 PM

Edgy DC wrote: Bobby Bonilla was signed by the Mets for five years and $29 million and was traded after four. and if you want to go historical, there have been good signings, like george brett, kirby puckett, Mike Schmidt, etc....

Edgy DC Nov 20 2006 12:35 PM

Quisenberry, Brett, and Wilson all seemed to get a "lifetime" deal at some point.

attgig Nov 20 2006 12:36 PM

metirish wrote: Can't remeber if they were 5+ year deals but Denny Neagle and Chan Ho Park didn't finish out big contracts. that's right, neagle... and dreifort as well.

Frayed Knot Nov 20 2006 01:42 PM

Burnett 5 years 55 Millwood 5 years 60 * Both are just one year in so far Beltre 5 years 64 Maggs 5 years 75 * Like Beltran, have completed two years and are still where they signed Park 5 years 65 Tejada 6 years 65 Vlad 5 years 70 Giambi 7 years 120 Griff 9 years 116 * Park was gone before the deal was finished * Of the rest, all are still w/the signing team although only Giambi & Griff have reached/passed the 5-year mark to date. Welcome (back?) attgig Name's a blast from the past

metsguyinmichigan Nov 20 2006 01:55 PM

Wasn't Todd Helton signed to something like 10 years by the Rox?

TheOldMole Nov 20 2006 02:35 PM

Who's attgig? A knowledgeable new addition to our site, or an oldtimer under a new name?

Frayed Knot Nov 20 2006 02:55 PM

]Wasn't Todd Helton signed to something like 10 years by the Rox? Helton is mentioned in the top post as a contract still in progress ]Who's attgig? A knowledgeable new addition to our site, or an oldtimer under a new name? Same name, long ago memeber of a previous forum and maybe also the earliest days of the CPF

TheOldMole Nov 21 2006 09:46 AM

Neat to have him back.

attgig Nov 21 2006 12:51 PM

thank you. i didn't think i would get recognized by anyone here, since it's been so long. Frayed... new name? I apologize if it isn't, but I don't recognize the name.

Edgy DC Nov 21 2006 12:53 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Nov 21 2006 12:59 PM

Frayed Knot is the former LF who is the former Left Field. Benvenidos.

metsmarathon Nov 21 2006 12:53 PM

where's the who's who list when you need it?

attgig Nov 21 2006 12:57 PM

Edgy DC wrote: Frayed Knot is the former LF who is the former Left Field. Benvidos. ahh. yes, I know LF. and edgy. good to feel at home again.

metirish Nov 21 2006 01:06 PM

] In sports contracts, nine figures are too many The Chicago Cubs are throwing $136 million at a 98-year championship drought, and the funny money is landing in the waiting arms of a free agent with power, speed, and enough eye-popping stats to swing open the vaults of a company reportedly trying to sell assets, not buy them. So Alfonso Soriano, formerly of the Washington Nationals, will not be listed in the Tribune Co.'s quarterly report as a 30-year-old ballplayer who struck out 160 times and couldn't bat .280 for a last-place team. He's been chosen to lead his new club to a place where the White Sox have already been, and Cubs fans only need to review recent history to know they shouldn't hold their breath. Nine-figure contracts usually don't work in sports, except for the agents. For the executives who sign them? Monster deals heighten expectations while squeezing budgets, weakening rosters and alienating teammates. In baseball, only Manny Ramirez ($160 million) and Albert Pujols ($100 million) have helped their clubs win titles while playing under the terms of nine-figure deals. Shaquille O'Neal ($120 million with the Lakers, $100 million with the Heat) and Tim Duncan ($122 million) are the only NBA players to have scored the daily double, and no NFL star has managed the same. Soriano will be swinging against a disturbing trend of Hollywood-sized busts, and this unscientific survey of the 10 worst nine-figure deals suggests he'd better take a healthy cut. Alex Rodriguez, $252 million - The Rose Bowl of sports contracts (granddaddy of them all). Texas finished dead last with A-Rod, and Seattle won 116 games without him. The Yankees would love this drama queen to take his soap opera on the road. George Steinbrenner's saving grace? Tom Hicks is paying a hefty portion of the tab. Mike Hampton, $121 million - What on earth were the mile-high Rockies thinking? Off a 15-10 season with the Mets, Hampton said some nice things about the Colorado school system and cashed in beyond his wildest dreams. He went 21-28 over two seasons before the Rockies cut their unfathomable losses. Shawn Kemp, $107 million - How were the Cavaliers to know that he'd spend it on bacon double cheeseburgers? Kevin Brown, $105 million - The first baseball player to hurdle the $100 million barrier, Brown surpassed 14 victories just once for the Dodgers, who gave him a dozen free chartered flights a year between L.A. and his Georgia home. They finally punched Brown a one-way ticket to the Bronx, where he punched a clubhouse wall and surrendered Game 7 of the 2004 ALCS to Boston. Juwan Howard, $105 million - Pat Riley should still be sending David Stern a dozen roses a week for voiding this Miami signing over a flagrant salary-cap foul, leaving Howard to play out his overpriced, underwhelming prime in Washington. Jason Giambi, $120 million - Hurt a lot, defensively challenged, and the public face of the steroid plague after his reported BALCO testimony, Giambi hasn't been worth half his wage. He couldn't help his case by pointing out that even Captain Jeter hasn't won a ring since signing his own $189 million deal. Allan Houston, $100.4 million - No surprise that many mega-bust contracts find their way to a New York payroll at one point or another. Before retiring on bum knees, Houston admitted even he was surprised at how much the Knicks were willing to pay him. Drew Bledsoe, $103 million - NFL contracts generally don't count, since they're never what they appear to be. But Bledsoe's best contribution since this signing was clearing out for Tom Brady (or was that Tony Romo?). Chris Webber, $127 million - Webber played big on the front end of his deal, but injuries have left him a hobbled shell of his former self. Michael Vick, $130 million - Maybe a better bet than Brett Favre's post-title $100 million extension and Donovan McNabb's $115 million, but Vick's deal more than doubles Brady's and clears Peyton Manning's by $32 million. He hasn't honored the investment. These 10 account for no rings as members of the nine-figure club, as Brown won with Florida before securing his $105 million contract. In other business, Kevin Garnett signed for $126 million with Minnesota, and then for another $100 million, and has yet to reach the Finals. Todd Helton got $141.5 million from a Rockies team that's never made the playoffs. What does it all mean for the Cubs and Soriano? Their nine-figure marriage won't stop the title drought from becoming a three-figure deal. Ian O'Connor is a sports columnist for The Journal News. Reach him at ioconnor@lohud.com.

duan Nov 22 2006 05:42 AM

Edgy DC wrote: Frayed Knot is the former LF who is the former Left Field. Benvenidos. I don't know why, but I thought Frayed Knot was Norrin Rad.

Edgy DC Nov 22 2006 07:52 AM

You've been in the high grass too long, duan. Big Ralph became Norrin Radd, who became Vic Sage.

duan Nov 22 2006 10:30 AM

aha.

soupcan Nov 22 2006 10:41 AM

I used to be RKFast but I take my valium fairly regularly now.

metsmarathon Nov 22 2006 11:11 AM

lol.

attgig Nov 22 2006 12:08 PM

hey RK. good to see you here too.

Frayed Knot Nov 22 2006 12:22 PM

Ummmm, he's not serious. RK was actually here briefly a couple years back but left in a huff (or maybe it was a minute and a huff) for reasons which were never clear to me. [url=http://cybermessageboard.ehost.com/getalife/viewtopic.php?t=307&highlight=cpf]This may help[/url]. It's been residing in the 'Permanent Links' section.

attgig Nov 22 2006 12:32 PM

thanks. that does help.

vtmet Nov 22 2006 09:45 PM

I don't know why, but I was thinking that Frayed Knot was Cookie Mom or Jonathan Archer...

Frayed Knot Nov 22 2006 09:58 PM

Location, location, location. <<<<<<- - - - - - - - - - -

patona314 Nov 22 2006 10:24 PM

metirish wrote: ] In sports contracts, nine figures are too many The Chicago Cubs are throwing $136 million at a 98-year championship drought, and the funny money is landing in the waiting arms of a free agent with power, speed, and enough eye-popping stats to swing open the vaults of a company reportedly trying to sell assets, not buy them. So Alfonso Soriano, formerly of the Washington Nationals, will not be listed in the Tribune Co.'s quarterly report as a 30-year-old ballplayer who struck out 160 times and couldn't bat .280 for a last-place team. He's been chosen to lead his new club to a place where the White Sox have already been, and Cubs fans only need to review recent history to know they shouldn't hold their breath. Nine-figure contracts usually don't work in sports, except for the agents. For the executives who sign them? Monster deals heighten expectations while squeezing budgets, weakening rosters and alienating teammates. In baseball, only Manny Ramirez ($160 million) and Albert Pujols ($100 million) have helped their clubs win titles while playing under the terms of nine-figure deals. Shaquille O'Neal ($120 million with the Lakers, $100 million with the Heat) and Tim Duncan ($122 million) are the only NBA players to have scored the daily double, and no NFL star has managed the same. Soriano will be swinging against a disturbing trend of Hollywood-sized busts, and this unscientific survey of the 10 worst nine-figure deals suggests he'd better take a healthy cut. Alex Rodriguez, $252 million - The Rose Bowl of sports contracts (granddaddy of them all). Texas finished dead last with A-Rod, and Seattle won 116 games without him. The Yankees would love this drama queen to take his soap opera on the road. George Steinbrenner's saving grace? Tom Hicks is paying a hefty portion of the tab. Mike Hampton, $121 million - What on earth were the mile-high Rockies thinking? Off a 15-10 season with the Mets, Hampton said some nice things about the Colorado school system and cashed in beyond his wildest dreams. He went 21-28 over two seasons before the Rockies cut their unfathomable losses. Shawn Kemp, $107 million - How were the Cavaliers to know that he'd spend it on bacon double cheeseburgers? Kevin Brown, $105 million - The first baseball player to hurdle the $100 million barrier, Brown surpassed 14 victories just once for the Dodgers, who gave him a dozen free chartered flights a year between L.A. and his Georgia home. They finally punched Brown a one-way ticket to the Bronx, where he punched a clubhouse wall and surrendered Game 7 of the 2004 ALCS to Boston. Juwan Howard, $105 million - Pat Riley should still be sending David Stern a dozen roses a week for voiding this Miami signing over a flagrant salary-cap foul, leaving Howard to play out his overpriced, underwhelming prime in Washington. Jason Giambi, $120 million - Hurt a lot, defensively challenged, and the public face of the steroid plague after his reported BALCO testimony, Giambi hasn't been worth half his wage. He couldn't help his case by pointing out that even Captain Jeter hasn't won a ring since signing his own $189 million deal. Allan Houston, $100.4 million - No surprise that many mega-bust contracts find their way to a New York payroll at one point or another. Before retiring on bum knees, Houston admitted even he was surprised at how much the Knicks were willing to pay him. Drew Bledsoe, $103 million - NFL contracts generally don't count, since they're never what they appear to be. But Bledsoe's best contribution since this signing was clearing out for Tom Brady (or was that Tony Romo?). Chris Webber, $127 million - Webber played big on the front end of his deal, but injuries have left him a hobbled shell of his former self. Michael Vick, $130 million - Maybe a better bet than Brett Favre's post-title $100 million extension and Donovan McNabb's $115 million, but Vick's deal more than doubles Brady's and clears Peyton Manning's by $32 million. He hasn't honored the investment. These 10 account for no rings as members of the nine-figure club, as Brown won with Florida before securing his $105 million contract. In other business, Kevin Garnett signed for $126 million with Minnesota, and then for another $100 million, and has yet to reach the Finals. Todd Helton got $141.5 million from a Rockies team that's never made the playoffs. What does it all mean for the Cubs and Soriano? Their nine-figure marriage won't stop the title drought from becoming a three-figure deal. Ian O'Connor is a sports columnist for The Journal News. Reach him at ioconnor@lohud.com. i think i love you.... i think these things all of the time, but don't have the time to actually write it down. In the famous words already uttered by Mr. Martinez, you're my daddy.